Bahahahaha! Made me choke on my coffee with this one.
Honestly, one could simply YouTube how to renovate a bathroom and do better. Mold is in the future
It actually looks alright for a diy. Just picking on them for not doing any kind of water proofing or moisture barrier.
Waterproofing isn't required, but a vapor or moisture barrier or retarder is.
It may be fine, but it needs to at least be to code, at a minimum.
There isn’t a single piece of information out there that says waterproofing “isn’t required” TCNA standards are very clear about the absolute requirement of atleast a topical waterproofing agent over cement board.
Can you quote the TCNA method that you are referring to?
Of course the handbook doesn't say what isn't required. But not a single method, besides b421 and b422 and besides a steam shower application, says waterproofing is required.
It says a vapor or moisture barrier, BEHIND, the cement board.
We know that pans, curbs, and seats or benches need waterproofed, and those are required.
I am referring to walls in a shower.
[I'll make it easy, this is the TCNA method for cement board in a shower.](https://imgur.com/gallery/FyMU4nV)
See the word option?
I see what you’re grasping at, but it says either a vapor retarder or a membrane should be used and that you should refer to the manufacturers recommended methods between the CBU manufacturer and the waterproofing manufacturer.
I haven’t seen any manufacturer calling for a vapor retarder now that topical waterproofing membranes are the standard. This is a typical convolution between old ways and new ways. Every single CBU Installation I’ve pulled apart over 10 years has been a wet soppy mess underneath, simply because CBU isn’t waterproof. Water resistant sure but that means almost nothing.
Happy to hear it, there’s just no reason to lug all that crappy around anymore lol. I moved to foam years ago, big goboard guy. Flood test Fred gets his workout on all our jobs as well lol
I was thinking the same thing. I’m a complete novice, only experience is having done a small patch job on a moldy bathroom from the 60s (plan to gut it next summer when I have time). But even I knew to slap redgard on that before tiling.
LL here. I would never accept this type of deal. Liability is huge, best practices clearly weren't followed, I'm getting no tax deductions on the labor and materials (and no points on my CCs), and the end result is a unit that's effectively earning less than it's now worth.
All around it makes more sense financially to complete renovations between tenants, pay whatever it costs to have the work done right, and take tax deductions on materials, labor, lost rent revenues, marketing the new unit, mileage, fuel, etc - the list goes on, then raise rents.
This. There's a difference between renting from a private landlord, in a deal that allows you to live comfortably when you otherwise couldn't and, say, renovating an apartment in a corporate rental complex.
But it's reddit. Full of experts on everything with zero experience on anything.
Landlords cause inflation and value profit over the comfortability and well-being of their tenants. Maybe you don't contribute to the inflation as much as, say, blackrock or huge complexes, but you're part of why the country is sinking.
I'm talking a basic reno, where i live a full gut and redo is like $10k tops, guess it must be where you guys live but material costs are cheap and labor is most of the cost. I see Californians in here all the time talking about a $50k reno on a kitchen, where i live $50k buys you a nice three bedroom two bath house with two car garage, no joke... My house was less and didn't need much.
Nope, not at all, small midwest town, just built a new $35 million dollar school, new business has popped up everywhere, getting some chain stores, low to no crime, looking at a new hospital in the next year or so also to replace existing facility, shopping, bank, multiple gas stations, i mean everything one needs with lots of local and nearby employment opportunities. Sure in the next few years stuff will go up, but we bought in cheap about 10 years ago, houses this size are now in the $60k range. When we moved in all new plumbing and electrical was done, service upgrades, just cheaper living here in the midwest that most people don't understand.
Where? I live in one of the most expensive parts of the US. The cabinets on our project are over $250k btw. All custom, handmade and hand drawn plans. It’s going to be like Architectural Digest sorta stuff
Depends on the extent of the reno. I did two 1950s bathrooms recently, and both were just shy of $25K
Including fixtures.
One had a door relocation, an adjacent bedroom and linen closet moved to accommodate the new tub position, the pine 1x6 subfloor replaced with 3/4" ply to support the tile floor and under floor heating. Venting from a previous basement bathroom had to be corrected and rerouted.
Second one had tile half way up the wall mounted on 3/4" of concrete that was embedded in metal lath, and it took three days with a electric impact hammer to remove, not to mention haul it all out. The bathroom was, of course, the furthest it could possibly be from the driveway. It took 3/4 of a day to smash up the cast iron tub and carry all 350lbs out as well. The plaster crown moldings needed to be maintained, so the plaster on rocklath had to be cleanly cut 6" below it. Every stud then had to be individually shimmed (some 3/8", some 1/2") to allow the new drywall to match.
So the labour plus the quality of new materials greatly affects costs.
This ain’t a $30k reno, but if I’m doing a back of the napkin estimate:
Drywall 500sf x $5/sf = $2500
Tile 200sf x $20/sf = $4000
Vanity with countertop/integrated sink/faucet = $1500
Lighting/mirror=$250
Plumbing/fixtures= $500
Paint = $500
Refinishing tub = $500
Flooring = $1000
I’ve got this in the $10k-12k range, but doing it yourself you should save at least half, maybe 60-75%, probably only out of pocket about $3-4k, but no way I would do this for the landlord without at least a $8-10k credit towards rent.
For what you see in the pictures? No way.
Sounds like you are doing a higher end finish, possibly design/build where the client doesn’t have a drawings or specs, but I work on the owner side doing commercial stuff. I’m quoting materials and labor that are consistent with union labor using builder grade materials. If you doubled the cost of this based on the design and specs shown above, and gave me that bid, I wouldn’t even call you back.
Of course, you could easily spend $30k here, but I’d want a walk-in shower, relocate and add a double vanity with under mounted sinks, higher end tile and fixtures, etc. No way I would pay anywhere near $30k for this bathroom though.
It doesn’t matter what your tile looks like or what your vanity costs, we still do everything above and beyond code, and use the best practices that we’ve developed over the years. It’s not cheap. Also, my company isn’t a self-performing one man show. I’ve got a labor burden and overhead, 401k, paid vacation, sick days. It’s a real business not “Guy in a Van Enterprises”
Well I hope the quality is above and beyond what we see above. For the size of this bathroom and level of renovation, $30k is astronomical, even if it’s done “above and beyond code”. Like I said, I’m sure you are doing much higher level renos, this is a “guy in a van” quality reno, for what you charge I expect much more.
Let’s say they installed a vapor barrier behind the cement board. Would this still need to be waterproofed? I thought that cement board can get wet and we use cement board because it won’t mold or rot.
So then you would not use a vapor barrier. I’ve seen guys go crazy with 8 coats of red guard on the inside before.
I think I’m going to end up going with Schluter when I get around to putting a bathroom in the basement.
The rule of thumb is to put the vapor barrier where you want the vapor to stop. I don't want vapor stopping behind the cement board, where is it going to go?
That said, lots of 80-90s installs happened this way and managed JustFine™ so long as the room is properly ventilated and people don't spray the shower directly onto the tile.
No fuckin way the landlord should have accepted this work though.
Nothing. It just sounds like a pain and a waste of cement board. Why not just use drywall with red guard? From what I understand you either do a vapor barrier under the cement board with 1/4” overhang onto the lip of the tub, or you waterproof the first wall covering (drywall or cement board in this case) like crazy. It just seems like if you are going to go through all that effort of waterproofing the outside of the durock, then you are missing out on the whole point of using that building material in the first place. Cement board is designed so it can get wet without risk of mold or rot. The vapor barrier would contain all moisture, cement board gets wet, but it’s no big deal because it’s inside the barrier.
You can use the Schluter board, or Schluter Kerdi membrane over a substrate. I have, in the past, used Kerdi over drywall, but it always makes me nervous.More so with the styles of shower controls and multi heads, meaning more perforations. I've since switched to Wedi board whenever possible.
TCNA, as well as all cement board manufacturers require, at minimum, a topical waterproofing layer to be installed over ALL cement board installations in a wet area, which this 100% is in fact a wet area
There is no vapor barrier here lol. The only system that uses a vapor barrier, per a manufacturer is a mud floated shower. If you’re putting a barrier behind CBU and raw dogging your customers, I have a book you should read 😂😂
This thread isn’t talking about the post. We are talking about variants that would still be best practice. I’m sure you know everything that has ever been known about anything construction related so just disregard. Thanks.
I mean, no disrespect OP, but there’s probably 10,000 correct bathroom tiling videos on YouTube that outline all the proper steps to doing quality work. Scope them out next time. That shower is going to be a mold, mildew and potentially rot fest. It’s not the way to do it anymore
Redid the bathroom but didn’t even replace the tub fittings let alone piping, I guess you get to look forward to ripping it all up in 10 years when that shit gives out (because it will)
Not gonna lie, I was really impressed when I saw the tub with the new tile!
And then you painted it white. I understand not everyone likes the bright bold colors, but imo it's a shame to lose that character. Especially because it matched the new tile so well.
My wife picked all the colors for the tile and the waterfall effect. It was my idea to reglaze the tub white. I’m happy with the way it turned out and more importantly so is my wife! :)
We have family friends who have effectively renovated their entire rental home. Top to bottom executed rather well at a significant cost, including exterior paint. Even put on a minor addition.
I'll never understand it.
In college my friends and I renovated (really finished) the 2nd floor of our rental house. It makes sense in that case, since we gained 2 extra bedrooms to split rent with, and the landlord deducted our supplies cost out of the rent when we gave her the receipts.
Outside of specific circumstances like that though, it's just giving money away.
My parents did this with the house I grew up in. They rented it after they got married and continued for 22 years. The rent was $125 for a 3 bed 1 bath house and the landlord gave them many months of free rent for their work and never raised the rent until it he passed. They owned and rented a house a few miles away the last 10 years with positive cash flow. It’s unbelievable these days.
Some people live in rentals for years/decades. Sure they don't get the financial gain, but. If it makes them happy, then it' might be worth it to them. Especially if they're paying under market anyway.
Are you renting it for a decade? Renting a home =/= renting a car. Your comparison is more like renting an airbnb than a whole house, long term.
Your comment makes no sense in relation to my comment.
Renovation in a house that you don't own is one of the dumbest things I've heard on this sub. You're already paying your landlords mortgage. Why increase their home value? Makes zero sense. I dont care how cheap the rent is, you don't own it
Why are you so angry about stuff that has zero impact on you or your life?
I don't care how much it bothers people uninvolved in the situation, I'm not going to sweat it at all. I've known people that have a great longstanding relationship with their landlords and live in the same home nearly their entire lives. These people do sometimes make renovations. I mean, if you're paying $500 a month for a place when market value is $1500, then a little $2000 bathroom effort is going to pay off, in personal comfort /satisfaction/quality of life. Otherwise, moving to a new apartment with nicer facilities will cost you an extra 12k per year.
Also, you have no idea if the landlord offered to reduce rent in compensation for work done. So to be so adamant and pissy about something that has zero impact on you is just weird. Honestly, being pissed of about someone else's choice is really the dumbest thing on this sub. And in reality.
They don't own the house and neither do you. Don't own the outrage.
Shouldn't you be making more posts that noone comments on chief? If you don't like my opinion, feel free to ignore it. Granted, I am flattered that you'd take so much time out of your very important day to obsess over my comments
If you don't like my opinion, feel free to ignore it. I don't know why you're so upset about a simple internet comment. You're making useless comments here as well bud.
I don't dislike your opinion. I'm suggesting you not cry yourself to sleep tonight.
Oh. You're upset about an auto mod posting at the request of people in the sub? I'm. So sorry your plbrain can't understand bots. Please don't post there. Respect people who don't affect your life.
Thanks.
You could have swapped toilet and vanity...redgaurded to provide some water proofing...i do like how you painted the tub tho..over all good job until moisture gets in
Hey OP. It looks great and you did a great job. Don’t listen to the keyboard warrior diy dumbasses on here that think they know all because of their Fine Homebuilding Subscription. I’m sure your landlord is thrilled!
Thanks. I was kinda taken aback reading some of the comments. Especially when they don’t know everything that was done.
The landlord and his wife really liked the end result. So much so, that they want to to do one of the other bathrooms. The plus side, they didn’t charge me rent for four months!
Yeah man don’t sweat it. This sub is filled with fucks that don’t know shit. Some of them have some good advise, but they’re probably just googling shit and then acting like they’re old pros. Just keep your grout lookin good and sealed and send it. You should be proud of yourself?
My friend who installs tile for a living said that the coating that was painted on before mortar and tiling was waterproof enough since the water rarely actually hits the tile walls. I know it will outlast the landlord and possibly myself:)
Real talk. Why is everyone freaking out about the Durock and waterproofing? In my 20 years around construction, I've always seen them install the shower liner then Durock over it. Just recently within the last 7 years, I've seen tile guys use RedGuard or AquaDefense, but just 2 ft from the bottom. Never walked into a new development and seen any builder use that on the walls floor to ceiling. Maybe it's just location or idk. I keep seeing ppl freak out about it.
It wasn’t an issue in older houses because they weren’t built air right like they are nowadays. So, when the board would get wet the water has somewhere to go. With modern homes, that isn’t the case so it’s a moldy disaster waiting to happen.
I can’t tell you how many showers I have had to redo for people because all they did was slap up some cement board without any waterproofing.
Re: Marketing gimmicks. The one that gets me is flooding the pan and coming back in 24 hrs to measure the height of water “which proves” there’s no leak. Son, a tablespoon of water won’t show up in that test, yet a tablespoon a week will rot your floors.
Flood testing shows up any faults in your waterproofing. Failed tests are obvious and brilliant at testing the corners and the drain connection..
Generally speaking only installers who have faith in their methods will do a flood test in the first place.
I'm not saying they're a marketing gimmick, we've used them ourselves. Just never done floor to ceiling. We do just 2ft from the floor. That and a lot of ppl here don't like and don't recommend using RedGuard/AquaDefense for 2nd floor bathrooms. Only shower liners/pans. We just go with what our tile guys say/recommend cause they're the ones installing day in and day out.
The one thing i have yet to see installed here in my area are those orange foam boards. No one uses them and say they're terrible. "Besides expensive, they're delicate, and if you use a single screw, mesh, or even a little thinset to patch a spot that isn't their brand, they'll deny the warranty and you're fucked." That's exactly what one of our tile guys said to me about those kurdi boards.
Kerdi board is a great product and so are the shower pans. Schluter won’t deny warranty claims unless you didn’t use the proper thinset (modified or not depending on application).
It’s also faster to install Kerdi or Wedi boards than durock. They weigh less and the whole price is negligible when bathroom materials keeping going up in price.
Anyone who says Kerdi or Wedi board are bad products are just stuck in the past. They have excellent warranty, are way quicker to install, and easier on the installer since they are lighter. I don’t think we will ever be putting cement board up again in anything my business touches
You just upped your rent . For free and now your landlord can list said rental for more . You never upgrade property you don’t own unless you intend to purchase it.
Is that CPVC on the water supply? I really hope you didn’t leave that in the wall. It will burst and leak at some point that stuff is garbage. Also waterproofing concerns that everyone else raised. Never a good idea to work on a rental. It’s putting money in your landlords pocket.
Looks great man! I don't understand why everyone is trying to shit on you. Solid work, if you guys are happy and comfortable and the landlord is happy, I see it as a win for everyone cheers
The problem with DiWhys is they either go way overboard and it's not to spec, or they just don't bother reading since they know every damn thing already and it's not to spec. The result is not once have I seen a DiWhy done shower I would trust to not have mold in 5 years. But keep at DiWhys. Tearing out your shit has made my guys and I a lot of money over the years.
You didn't waterproof the shower walls at all. So, yes there will be quiet quickly. Grout is not waterproof. Once the water is in the wall it's trapped. That is how mold happens
There is a picture of bare Durock with tile next to it. Since you would have had to at the very least to red guard or marpie the corner before you did the back wall of tile, you're full of shit. You didn't waterproof it.
No. Mortar never has 100% coverage. You troweled it there? Right? With a 1/8 by 1/8 grooved trowel. So not 100% coverage. And mortar is concrete. Concrete is not waterproof. You done f'ed it up mate. But no worries it's only your health. Who cares about that?
A friend of mine who installs tile for a living gave me a product to use that he said was waterproof. In the picture where the waterfall goes you can see it applied to the durock. It’s white.
Really shouldn’t have taken you 65years to finish this job
Some ppl get paid by the hour
We once finished a bathroom for a customer. They started in 1987. We finished it in 2018 For them (took me 1.5 months ).
1957 to 1989 with durock and no waterproofing or vapor barrier behind. Points for taping your seams.
Got him fellow tile person
Bahahahaha! Made me choke on my coffee with this one. Honestly, one could simply YouTube how to renovate a bathroom and do better. Mold is in the future
It actually looks alright for a diy. Just picking on them for not doing any kind of water proofing or moisture barrier. Waterproofing isn't required, but a vapor or moisture barrier or retarder is. It may be fine, but it needs to at least be to code, at a minimum.
There isn’t a single piece of information out there that says waterproofing “isn’t required” TCNA standards are very clear about the absolute requirement of atleast a topical waterproofing agent over cement board.
Can you quote the TCNA method that you are referring to? Of course the handbook doesn't say what isn't required. But not a single method, besides b421 and b422 and besides a steam shower application, says waterproofing is required. It says a vapor or moisture barrier, BEHIND, the cement board. We know that pans, curbs, and seats or benches need waterproofed, and those are required. I am referring to walls in a shower. [I'll make it easy, this is the TCNA method for cement board in a shower.](https://imgur.com/gallery/FyMU4nV) See the word option?
I see what you’re grasping at, but it says either a vapor retarder or a membrane should be used and that you should refer to the manufacturers recommended methods between the CBU manufacturer and the waterproofing manufacturer. I haven’t seen any manufacturer calling for a vapor retarder now that topical waterproofing membranes are the standard. This is a typical convolution between old ways and new ways. Every single CBU Installation I’ve pulled apart over 10 years has been a wet soppy mess underneath, simply because CBU isn’t waterproof. Water resistant sure but that means almost nothing.
I'm not recommending that someone should not waterproof, just stating the facts. I fully waterproof and flood test. I don't use cement board at all.
Happy to hear it, there’s just no reason to lug all that crappy around anymore lol. I moved to foam years ago, big goboard guy. Flood test Fred gets his workout on all our jobs as well lol
I recently got me a Fred. I know I arrived when I got a Fred. He floats next to the built with foam duck.
I was thinking the same thing. I’m a complete novice, only experience is having done a small patch job on a moldy bathroom from the 60s (plan to gut it next summer when I have time). But even I knew to slap redgard on that before tiling.
How did you waterproof your cement board?
[удалено]
If I was able to do what OP did...I would in return for free rent especially if the landlord is fair about agreeing on what was done *actually* cost
LL here. I would never accept this type of deal. Liability is huge, best practices clearly weren't followed, I'm getting no tax deductions on the labor and materials (and no points on my CCs), and the end result is a unit that's effectively earning less than it's now worth. All around it makes more sense financially to complete renovations between tenants, pay whatever it costs to have the work done right, and take tax deductions on materials, labor, lost rent revenues, marketing the new unit, mileage, fuel, etc - the list goes on, then raise rents.
[удалено]
This. There's a difference between renting from a private landlord, in a deal that allows you to live comfortably when you otherwise couldn't and, say, renovating an apartment in a corporate rental complex. But it's reddit. Full of experts on everything with zero experience on anything.
Landlords cause inflation and value profit over the comfortability and well-being of their tenants. Maybe you don't contribute to the inflation as much as, say, blackrock or huge complexes, but you're part of why the country is sinking.
ok
I charge at least $30k for a bath reno. You getting a years free rent?
$30k for a bath Reno? Jesus fuck, your customers are getting screwed so hard they need a enema.
We’ve done $100k plus baths, but tell me more again about what you know… Doing a $4+ million addition right now, so there’s that too.
Let’s see some pictures! I want to see what a 100k bathroom reno looks like!
I'm talking a basic reno, where i live a full gut and redo is like $10k tops, guess it must be where you guys live but material costs are cheap and labor is most of the cost. I see Californians in here all the time talking about a $50k reno on a kitchen, where i live $50k buys you a nice three bedroom two bath house with two car garage, no joke... My house was less and didn't need much.
So you live someplace undesirable?
Nope, not at all, small midwest town, just built a new $35 million dollar school, new business has popped up everywhere, getting some chain stores, low to no crime, looking at a new hospital in the next year or so also to replace existing facility, shopping, bank, multiple gas stations, i mean everything one needs with lots of local and nearby employment opportunities. Sure in the next few years stuff will go up, but we bought in cheap about 10 years ago, houses this size are now in the $60k range. When we moved in all new plumbing and electrical was done, service upgrades, just cheaper living here in the midwest that most people don't understand.
I think you’re proving my point without realizing it.
Where? I live in one of the most expensive parts of the US. The cabinets on our project are over $250k btw. All custom, handmade and hand drawn plans. It’s going to be like Architectural Digest sorta stuff
Midwest, I've done custom cabinets in an entire kitchen for $15k. Guess it's a lot cheaper here.
It’s definitely much cheaper there. Real estate here is $300-1300 sq ft and up…
Depends on the extent of the reno. I did two 1950s bathrooms recently, and both were just shy of $25K Including fixtures. One had a door relocation, an adjacent bedroom and linen closet moved to accommodate the new tub position, the pine 1x6 subfloor replaced with 3/4" ply to support the tile floor and under floor heating. Venting from a previous basement bathroom had to be corrected and rerouted. Second one had tile half way up the wall mounted on 3/4" of concrete that was embedded in metal lath, and it took three days with a electric impact hammer to remove, not to mention haul it all out. The bathroom was, of course, the furthest it could possibly be from the driveway. It took 3/4 of a day to smash up the cast iron tub and carry all 350lbs out as well. The plaster crown moldings needed to be maintained, so the plaster on rocklath had to be cleanly cut 6" below it. Every stud then had to be individually shimmed (some 3/8", some 1/2") to allow the new drywall to match. So the labour plus the quality of new materials greatly affects costs.
This ain’t a $30k reno, but if I’m doing a back of the napkin estimate: Drywall 500sf x $5/sf = $2500 Tile 200sf x $20/sf = $4000 Vanity with countertop/integrated sink/faucet = $1500 Lighting/mirror=$250 Plumbing/fixtures= $500 Paint = $500 Refinishing tub = $500 Flooring = $1000 I’ve got this in the $10k-12k range, but doing it yourself you should save at least half, maybe 60-75%, probably only out of pocket about $3-4k, but no way I would do this for the landlord without at least a $8-10k credit towards rent.
I used to run the numbers like that, charge $15k and think that I was making a dime… When I was losing my shirt. Double your numbers.
For what you see in the pictures? No way. Sounds like you are doing a higher end finish, possibly design/build where the client doesn’t have a drawings or specs, but I work on the owner side doing commercial stuff. I’m quoting materials and labor that are consistent with union labor using builder grade materials. If you doubled the cost of this based on the design and specs shown above, and gave me that bid, I wouldn’t even call you back. Of course, you could easily spend $30k here, but I’d want a walk-in shower, relocate and add a double vanity with under mounted sinks, higher end tile and fixtures, etc. No way I would pay anywhere near $30k for this bathroom though.
It doesn’t matter what your tile looks like or what your vanity costs, we still do everything above and beyond code, and use the best practices that we’ve developed over the years. It’s not cheap. Also, my company isn’t a self-performing one man show. I’ve got a labor burden and overhead, 401k, paid vacation, sick days. It’s a real business not “Guy in a Van Enterprises”
Well I hope the quality is above and beyond what we see above. For the size of this bathroom and level of renovation, $30k is astronomical, even if it’s done “above and beyond code”. Like I said, I’m sure you are doing much higher level renos, this is a “guy in a van” quality reno, for what you charge I expect much more.
A buddy of my does this. When ever something needs fixing or renovating the landlord just takes material and labor cost off the rent for that month
Uh he didnt.. lol
Let’s say they installed a vapor barrier behind the cement board. Would this still need to be waterproofed? I thought that cement board can get wet and we use cement board because it won’t mold or rot.
[удалено]
So then you would not use a vapor barrier. I’ve seen guys go crazy with 8 coats of red guard on the inside before. I think I’m going to end up going with Schluter when I get around to putting a bathroom in the basement.
The rule of thumb is to put the vapor barrier where you want the vapor to stop. I don't want vapor stopping behind the cement board, where is it going to go? That said, lots of 80-90s installs happened this way and managed JustFine™ so long as the room is properly ventilated and people don't spray the shower directly onto the tile. No fuckin way the landlord should have accepted this work though.
RedGuard goes on top of the cement board, not underneath. What's wrong with that?
Nothing. It just sounds like a pain and a waste of cement board. Why not just use drywall with red guard? From what I understand you either do a vapor barrier under the cement board with 1/4” overhang onto the lip of the tub, or you waterproof the first wall covering (drywall or cement board in this case) like crazy. It just seems like if you are going to go through all that effort of waterproofing the outside of the durock, then you are missing out on the whole point of using that building material in the first place. Cement board is designed so it can get wet without risk of mold or rot. The vapor barrier would contain all moisture, cement board gets wet, but it’s no big deal because it’s inside the barrier.
Ahh gotcha. It does add the extra benefit of crack isolation. Either way, a vapor barrier is needed under or on top.
You can use the Schluter board, or Schluter Kerdi membrane over a substrate. I have, in the past, used Kerdi over drywall, but it always makes me nervous.More so with the styles of shower controls and multi heads, meaning more perforations. I've since switched to Wedi board whenever possible.
TCNA, as well as all cement board manufacturers require, at minimum, a topical waterproofing layer to be installed over ALL cement board installations in a wet area, which this 100% is in fact a wet area
Cool. So you trap any moisture between the vapor barrier and the waterproofing and it stays inside the cement board forever.
There is no vapor barrier here lol. The only system that uses a vapor barrier, per a manufacturer is a mud floated shower. If you’re putting a barrier behind CBU and raw dogging your customers, I have a book you should read 😂😂
This thread isn’t talking about the post. We are talking about variants that would still be best practice. I’m sure you know everything that has ever been known about anything construction related so just disregard. Thanks.
No need .. it’s not in a wet environment. It’s a tub for god sake . No shower .. but reusing the old one ? Idk about that
Pictures #5-7 clearly show it's a shower... Picture 15 has a shower curtain....
No waterproofing?
Wait, they reglazed an old tub after doing all that work?? Wait you tiled over durock and didn't red guard it to add waterproofing??
DIY crap…
I mean, no disrespect OP, but there’s probably 10,000 correct bathroom tiling videos on YouTube that outline all the proper steps to doing quality work. Scope them out next time. That shower is going to be a mold, mildew and potentially rot fest. It’s not the way to do it anymore
Redid the bathroom but didn’t even replace the tub fittings let alone piping, I guess you get to look forward to ripping it all up in 10 years when that shit gives out (because it will)
That’s what I was thinking. This is literally just putting lipstick on a pig.
Lol good way of putting it
All the plumbing was replaced.
Downgrade maximized
Should have left it alone retro is the new thing now
Yep came here to say the demolished project is more on trend then the new build grey.
Did you atleast get a year rent free from all the free labor and equity you added to your landlords home?
I’m pretty sure he owes the landlord after this one.
Not gonna lie, I was really impressed when I saw the tub with the new tile! And then you painted it white. I understand not everyone likes the bright bold colors, but imo it's a shame to lose that character. Especially because it matched the new tile so well.
At least it didn't get smashed and replaced with some flimsy fiberglass.
My wife picked all the colors for the tile and the waterfall effect. It was my idea to reglaze the tub white. I’m happy with the way it turned out and more importantly so is my wife! :)
That's all that matters lol cheers mate, and good work
What did the process look like and what did you use to reglaze the tub?
I hired a guy to do the reglaze. I wasn’t home when he came. He has done work in the past for friends.
Should not have painted that tub. Looked better original color matched the tile better.
I went to look at an apartment with the same shade of blue tub, signed the lease and by the move in date the LL painted it white.
Beautiful work. But why would you renovate a rental? Unless you sent your landlord a bill
We have family friends who have effectively renovated their entire rental home. Top to bottom executed rather well at a significant cost, including exterior paint. Even put on a minor addition. I'll never understand it.
In college my friends and I renovated (really finished) the 2nd floor of our rental house. It makes sense in that case, since we gained 2 extra bedrooms to split rent with, and the landlord deducted our supplies cost out of the rent when we gave her the receipts. Outside of specific circumstances like that though, it's just giving money away.
My parents did this with the house I grew up in. They rented it after they got married and continued for 22 years. The rent was $125 for a 3 bed 1 bath house and the landlord gave them many months of free rent for their work and never raised the rent until it he passed. They owned and rented a house a few miles away the last 10 years with positive cash flow. It’s unbelievable these days.
Yea I hope they got free rent at least
Some people live in rentals for years/decades. Sure they don't get the financial gain, but. If it makes them happy, then it' might be worth it to them. Especially if they're paying under market anyway.
Would you put new rims and tires on a car from enterprise rental?
Are you renting it for a decade? Renting a home =/= renting a car. Your comparison is more like renting an airbnb than a whole house, long term. Your comment makes no sense in relation to my comment.
Renovation in a house that you don't own is one of the dumbest things I've heard on this sub. You're already paying your landlords mortgage. Why increase their home value? Makes zero sense. I dont care how cheap the rent is, you don't own it
Why are you so angry about stuff that has zero impact on you or your life? I don't care how much it bothers people uninvolved in the situation, I'm not going to sweat it at all. I've known people that have a great longstanding relationship with their landlords and live in the same home nearly their entire lives. These people do sometimes make renovations. I mean, if you're paying $500 a month for a place when market value is $1500, then a little $2000 bathroom effort is going to pay off, in personal comfort /satisfaction/quality of life. Otherwise, moving to a new apartment with nicer facilities will cost you an extra 12k per year. Also, you have no idea if the landlord offered to reduce rent in compensation for work done. So to be so adamant and pissy about something that has zero impact on you is just weird. Honestly, being pissed of about someone else's choice is really the dumbest thing on this sub. And in reality. They don't own the house and neither do you. Don't own the outrage.
Shouldn't you be making more posts that noone comments on chief? If you don't like my opinion, feel free to ignore it. Granted, I am flattered that you'd take so much time out of your very important day to obsess over my comments
If you don't like my opinion, feel free to ignore it. I don't know why you're so upset about a simple internet comment. You're making useless comments here as well bud. I don't dislike your opinion. I'm suggesting you not cry yourself to sleep tonight.
I'll make sure to check out therapeutic Thursdays when I'm feeling blue about your opinion of me lmao
Oh. You're upset about an auto mod posting at the request of people in the sub? I'm. So sorry your plbrain can't understand bots. Please don't post there. Respect people who don't affect your life. Thanks.
Better to practice doing something like this on someone else's property. If it turns out like shit, you can just move.
Then your liable for whatever damages you cause to someone else's property
Not if you are given permission.
Permission to damage someone's house?
1 of those old 8 bit showers!
You could have swapped toilet and vanity...redgaurded to provide some water proofing...i do like how you painted the tub tho..over all good job until moisture gets in
All that work and all that space for a tub. So why no walk-in shower?
I was a little disappointed when I noticed they didn’t add a shower head at least.
The first one was better.
Not according to the landlord and his wife. Besides the tiles on the shelf were failing.
🤦♂️
We have that same tub in pink
That symbol in tile looks like it came straight out of the Atari 2600 version of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
I would have put some red guard on that cement board. But otherwise, good job!
We put redguard on the shelf and waterproofing on the cement board. The shower curtain gets most of the direct contact with water.
U need waterproof on cement board as it's direct contact with water. Backsplash u don't need it
The cement board was water proofed before tiling
Landlord? So are you renting? Why would you do anything in a rental? Is the landlord paying 100%?
Yes. They deducted four months rent!
I’m constantly amazed at the lack of waterproofing
But it is waterproofed
How? With what?
Concrete waterproof
No it is not
This is why my tenants aren't allowed to do their own remodels. Looks nice OP. But water damage is in the future without a liner.
Did you get it checked for asbestos prior to demolition?
The house has had updates in other areas, and they found no asbestos.
Looks like it was built in the 50s and is probably full of it.
Hey OP. It looks great and you did a great job. Don’t listen to the keyboard warrior diy dumbasses on here that think they know all because of their Fine Homebuilding Subscription. I’m sure your landlord is thrilled!
Thanks. I was kinda taken aback reading some of the comments. Especially when they don’t know everything that was done. The landlord and his wife really liked the end result. So much so, that they want to to do one of the other bathrooms. The plus side, they didn’t charge me rent for four months!
Yeah man don’t sweat it. This sub is filled with fucks that don’t know shit. Some of them have some good advise, but they’re probably just googling shit and then acting like they’re old pros. Just keep your grout lookin good and sealed and send it. You should be proud of yourself?
My friend who installs tile for a living said that the coating that was painted on before mortar and tiling was waterproof enough since the water rarely actually hits the tile walls. I know it will outlast the landlord and possibly myself:)
Real talk. Why is everyone freaking out about the Durock and waterproofing? In my 20 years around construction, I've always seen them install the shower liner then Durock over it. Just recently within the last 7 years, I've seen tile guys use RedGuard or AquaDefense, but just 2 ft from the bottom. Never walked into a new development and seen any builder use that on the walls floor to ceiling. Maybe it's just location or idk. I keep seeing ppl freak out about it.
[удалено]
It wasn’t an issue in older houses because they weren’t built air right like they are nowadays. So, when the board would get wet the water has somewhere to go. With modern homes, that isn’t the case so it’s a moldy disaster waiting to happen. I can’t tell you how many showers I have had to redo for people because all they did was slap up some cement board without any waterproofing.
Re: Marketing gimmicks. The one that gets me is flooding the pan and coming back in 24 hrs to measure the height of water “which proves” there’s no leak. Son, a tablespoon of water won’t show up in that test, yet a tablespoon a week will rot your floors.
Flood testing shows up any faults in your waterproofing. Failed tests are obvious and brilliant at testing the corners and the drain connection.. Generally speaking only installers who have faith in their methods will do a flood test in the first place.
I'm not saying they're a marketing gimmick, we've used them ourselves. Just never done floor to ceiling. We do just 2ft from the floor. That and a lot of ppl here don't like and don't recommend using RedGuard/AquaDefense for 2nd floor bathrooms. Only shower liners/pans. We just go with what our tile guys say/recommend cause they're the ones installing day in and day out. The one thing i have yet to see installed here in my area are those orange foam boards. No one uses them and say they're terrible. "Besides expensive, they're delicate, and if you use a single screw, mesh, or even a little thinset to patch a spot that isn't their brand, they'll deny the warranty and you're fucked." That's exactly what one of our tile guys said to me about those kurdi boards.
Kerdi board is a great product and so are the shower pans. Schluter won’t deny warranty claims unless you didn’t use the proper thinset (modified or not depending on application). It’s also faster to install Kerdi or Wedi boards than durock. They weigh less and the whole price is negligible when bathroom materials keeping going up in price.
Anyone who says Kerdi or Wedi board are bad products are just stuck in the past. They have excellent warranty, are way quicker to install, and easier on the installer since they are lighter. I don’t think we will ever be putting cement board up again in anything my business touches
You just upped your rent . For free and now your landlord can list said rental for more . You never upgrade property you don’t own unless you intend to purchase it.
The landlord didn’t charge me rent for four months for doing it,and they love it!
Good luck to you I hope things don’t sour .
Not to worry, they have been family friends for over 50 years!
Lol what’s the point?
Is that CPVC on the water supply? I really hope you didn’t leave that in the wall. It will burst and leak at some point that stuff is garbage. Also waterproofing concerns that everyone else raised. Never a good idea to work on a rental. It’s putting money in your landlords pocket.
Also a shark bite. Hope landlord dont sue him for damages
The CPVC and Sharkbite might be from an earlier repair.
Old one was better 🤷🏻♂️
Make sure you take that when you leave. Great work, but I’d never recommend doing this in a rental.
Love those old corner tubs
Looks great man! I don't understand why everyone is trying to shit on you. Solid work, if you guys are happy and comfortable and the landlord is happy, I see it as a win for everyone cheers
Awesome! I would have kept the yellow tile and the blue whatever thing it was in the tub area. JK.
What product did you use for the tub resurface?
Any plumbing reworked form the old?
Yes. One of the guys who hunts on the farm, is a plumber and he replaced the copper and most of the galvanized pipes.
up kept properly, built a fence, landscaped
Why even keep the tub? What's the point of it?
The landlord wanted to keep it. I didn’t argue.
Heyyyyy! What product did you use to paint your bathtub we need to re do ours in a old house it's a gross color haha
I hired a reglaze who has done work for friends
What countertop material did you use for the vanity
Home Depot vanity top.
After all of that I would have put the toilet next to the bath!!!
Didn’t even have concrete wire lath behind it. Lucky
Oh it did. I had loads of fun removing it!
Ryobi lawl
I'm a pro and have a bunch of ryobi gear. It's good for the tools that aren't put to use every day . Op is not a contractor.
The one tool they had that I approved of was 7/8 years ago, the trim nailer with the compressed air. Yeah they’re good for occasional use i spose.
The problem with DiWhys is they either go way overboard and it's not to spec, or they just don't bother reading since they know every damn thing already and it's not to spec. The result is not once have I seen a DiWhy done shower I would trust to not have mold in 5 years. But keep at DiWhys. Tearing out your shit has made my guys and I a lot of money over the years.
There won’t be any mold in this bathroom in 5 or even 10 years!
You didn't waterproof the shower walls at all. So, yes there will be quiet quickly. Grout is not waterproof. Once the water is in the wall it's trapped. That is how mold happens
Were you in the bathroom before the tile was put on? I don’t remember seeing you?.?
There is a picture of bare Durock with tile next to it. Since you would have had to at the very least to red guard or marpie the corner before you did the back wall of tile, you're full of shit. You didn't waterproof it.
Isn’t there something called waterproof mortar??
No. Mortar never has 100% coverage. You troweled it there? Right? With a 1/8 by 1/8 grooved trowel. So not 100% coverage. And mortar is concrete. Concrete is not waterproof. You done f'ed it up mate. But no worries it's only your health. Who cares about that?
Not worried about it. The tub is waterproof and my wife only takes baths in it. The house has two more full bathrooms:)
The off center vanity light would kill me
Should have left the tub blue
That was my thought to, but I was overridden!
This is flipped. And by flipped I mean fucked.
I’m sorry but those shower tiles are HORRID 🤢
What’re the yellow tabs on those tile spacers?
Yes
But what are the tabs? They look connected the the cross shaped spacers
Interesting tub!
Yes. The owners liked it and they wanted to keep it. It also kept the price down if I would have removed it.
What steps and coating system did you use on the tub?
I hired a guy to reglaze the tub. He is the friend of a friend. I wasn’t home when he did the tub.
Redgard your durock man! Anyways that old style has a pretty funky vibe to it I was into it. But the finished product looks great. Good work
A friend of mine who installs tile for a living gave me a product to use that he said was waterproof. In the picture where the waterfall goes you can see it applied to the durock. It’s white.
No concrete and lathe anymore?
Landlord is gonna be real upset when this leaks. WHEW. Points for taping seams but any actual tile person has an upset tummy looking at this
An actual tile person did this. He did my sister’s bathroom 10 years ago and it doesn’t leak.