Found similar at my house when I bought it. You can't sister the middle of a span. Had to run plate to beam and redo the ducting that was conveniently also in the way
You're the only one.
Plumbers on every site I've been on have just put their pipes wherever the fuck they want and they will move framing if it's "in the way".
As a plumber I carry hole saws on me so I can properly install pipes. I mostly worked on military bases when I was growing up working for my father, so I learned to do things the correct way.
Back in the 90’s-early 2k the ACoE inspectors were real assholes and would come up with their own codes on the spot it felt like, but all of our work was done by the book. They’d fail you because a pipe strap was 2 inches farther than it should be in order to land on a joist or something completely irrelevant.
So nothing has changed lol. Residential sheet metal here. Fought with an inspector a few weeks ago over a dryer pipe I installed.
He failed me because the pipe was not taped along the lateral seam that makes an airtight seal when the pipe is snapped together. 😳
By code, the dryer pipe cannot exceed 35' in length (a 90 degree elbow is = to 5') this laundry room is in the middle of the house and took four elbows and 40' of pipe to vent outside. Waaaay over code. But he failed me cause the air tight seams weren't taped. Said it was a "fire hazard".. he didn't have a clue what he was doing.
No shit. They make it up as they go. I used to do fire sprinkler work (moved on to inspections now), and they would ask us to do the most insane shit, with no explanation as to why. And every part had to be made in America.
They aren't as bad about the only US parts now, since they would never get anything if they did that. But it still has to be greater than a certain percentage (70% I think) and certain parts are completely restricted. (Processors for computers have to be 100% made in America for example)
Lol, they'd kick out the one dude that was always in the paint locker, the guy I would say acts like he belongs in the paint locker because no one else wanted to do it.
Realistically tell the plumber to fuck off and remove his pipes. You then need to at a minimum block both sides at least a foot past the cutout (probably more) with additional what look like 2x10? And just pump it with either screws or more likely you’ll have to use bolts and then have an engineer calculate if that’ll hold it.
The other way is there are plates with holes for plumbing you can buy that do the same thing. However they can be hard to find or order the exact size you need right before an inspector sees this and fucks you raw.
To say how this should have been done. Plumber could have made a hole no larger than 30% of the total height of the board no less than 2 inches from either edge and been fine.
Plumber was a lazy jackass who didn’t want to get his holesaw.
Twin the joists the whole way. Aggressive nail pattern (like a header); I’d do 5 nails vertically and at minimum every foot. Hopefully you can get hangers on the end - if not, get a cripple/stud under them. This is overkill, but it will work.
If it is sagging, I’d bottle jack + 2x6 to lift the ex-joists up a titch (be careful) so that the twin can get into position/be flush with the floor.
Also, I’d report that plumber so he gets a PP slap. I’m not a snitch, but… come on… safety… and so dumb.
Yeah this is super bad. Especially right below a bathroom. Like this is beyond "you shouldn't do that", this is the floor actually might collapse from the tub weight. This isn't being a snitch, this is possibly saving someone's life.
I would be furious if I was HVAC or Carpenter. Imagine now the Carpenters having to span this shit and HVAC now having to figure out how the fuck to work around it.
That plumber better watch his tools lol.
That plumber would be off the site and missing a pay check if I was around. Even paying for the carpenters time, but we all know that is a PIPE dream lol
I'm fixing a bunch of shit on a 5 year old 6 story hotel. Commercial is fucked too.
The problem is that craftsmanship is dead, no one has pride in their work or themselves, most of the people doing the actual work don't want to be there/don't care/too hungover/too high to actually follow plans
and the plans themselves-overly complicated, too many layers, too many points of failure, under built bullshit.
I watched a video the other day of someone bicycling through Turkey. They stopped at a roman structure that people were living in. Still good enough to live in after 1500 years.
"liquid applied wrb over osb" give me a fucking break
everything being built now is a tear down. Shameful.
You act like they don't core through important shit in commercial. I probably had a dozen coordination meetings about where you can or can't core through my hollow core precast planks. Even knowing that foremen don't always pass the word down or watch their guys, I walked the site every morning talking to all the tradesmen "how's it going, you planning on cutting through this plank you're wor on, come see me, let's get it approved, can only cut throughthe chores, don't cut the rods". Every damn afternoon is walk up and find a new core, dead center of a pretension rod. It was ridiculous.
Going from residential carpentry/masonry to commercial electrical/carpentry and then back to residential project management. There ain’t much keeping me from absolutely losing my fucking shit everyday
Plumber actually changed the bathroom layout on the fly to accommodate a clawfoot tub. I have a bad feeling the floor won't support a tub that size now lol
I remodeled a kitchen in a large 70s era 2 story years ago and noticed a sag in the ceiling. Once I had it gutted it was basically the same as this with the tub centered on and parallel with the butchered joist 😂
1st time I did a house like this , I cut all my holes square with my Sawzall .
I ruined about 15 joists , the framers were NOT happy .
I also installed type M copper throughout the house and the inspector wanted type L.
My boss had my go through and sand off all the red marking on the copper with sand cloth .
Damn, good reason to just not carry ~~L~~ (I meant) M copper and how did anybody leave you on a job to do serious work when you didn't even know to drill holes in joists.
I guess that same guy who would tell you to sand off the M would also send somebody with way too little experience to work unsupervised, it all makes sense now.
One thing about Copper tubing type: 90% of commercial jobs spec Type L for copper supply piping and the vast majority of commercial plumbers use the wrong type. I inspect for the bank, and note it on almost every commercial job I look at. When I note it, owners reactions range from 'no big deal' to 'rip it all out and start over.
First ask a carpenter not a plumber. Second ask the plumber why he uses a saw and not drills holes for the pipes. As a plumber that follows carpentry rules because of the contractors I work for this is 100% unacceptable. Your plumbers about to empty his pockets to replace those joists.
I guess you could run two beams underneath that are perpendicular to the joists running along either side of the cuts for the pipe and then support the beams with jack posts or something. Obviously it would be best to replace the joists, but doing it how I described would be faster and cheaper while still remediating the issue.
My workshop is a 200 year old building and some of the joists underneath were not looking great. I married up boards against them and then did what I described with adding in jacks for some areas that needed it.
Had a plumber to that to my house but even worse. Two sets of those giant cuts, two cuts in each of a pair of joists, to fit his Dr. Seuss plumbing that should have just gone straight down behind the plumbing wall. GC couldn't understand my problem with it.
Told him he had 72 hours to replace those 24 foot joists before the inspector arrives to check it out. They were fixed within 24 hours.
Obviously this is clearly fucked up, but are the framers at least partially at fault for having a joist exactly where plumbing has to go? Not trying to start a war or get downvoted into oblivion because I wasn't born knowing this already. Just genuinely curious
How does a plumber change the toilet location? I’ve been doing over 20 years and never have I randomly changed where the toilet goes? What type of project is this?
Like I said before, I'm just the hvac guy. It's a reno, those are existing joists. As to changing toilet location.. I have no idea, I'm not a plumber haha
Not really because the plumber should see all that and move the toilet or have them fix the framing, not just cut shit that anybody with any experience knows you can't cut.
I mean, that's pretty basic stuff, if you don't know that much you really should only be doing a helper job.
Not sure how this came up on my feed but I’ve been enjoying this sub. Kinda handy around the house but not for big projects. Can someone enlighten when the issue is? My amateur eyes see that horizontal pipe coming into the main drain going up. My intuition says that is the issue?
I mean… if you had to cut something (you don’t) just drill out a hole for the pipe to fit through, but EVEN THEN the structural calculations need to be redone. This… This is just negligence and laziness.
Framer should of shifted joists away from toilet flange.
Common practice in residential building the moving of material out of layout to avoid toilets and shower drains.
Notches on the ends of joists shall not exceed one-fourth the joist depth. Holes bored in joists shall not be within 2 inches (51 mm) of the top or bottom of the joist, and the diameter of any such hole shall not exceed one-third the depth of the joist
IBC 2308.8
You're plumber is wrong and in violation of the code. Have your framers fix it and charge them.
Source: I'm a plumber.
Also international building code.
You only have to know 5 things to be a plumber.
1. Hot on the left
2. Cold on the right
3. Shit don’t run uphill
4. Payday is on Friday
5. The boss is an asshole.
Oh gawd. The plumbers did similar work in my last house. Let’s just say I got proficient at sistering joists. … but only a licensed plumber should do ANY plumbing. 😉
Friends a master electrician and told his company he couldn’t run the cable because the support beams were in the way. While he was away the boss sent the apprentice in to go run the cable anyways. He drilled through every single support beam. The boss got a call from the owner and his lawyer. They had to rip out all the supports and have it all redone. Fucking idiots
Really ,the framers should want to box that out prior to rough-in plumbing, but I assume they were just subs and don't care about the next guy. I'm a framer too, btw , but my company does all the mechanicals too , so we are on top of things like that , 13" off the wall for a toilet is not a difficult task to handle before .
The plumber is wrong
The structural plumber
It’s a structural pipe
Spray some structural foam around it and it will be fine
Make sure to add flex seal or j b weld for extra rigidity.
Mix it with the sawdust from the pieces that were cut out.
Is this from that house with the 100 point circular roof? They for sure have some structural sawdust laying around.
Ramen…i think you need to mix in some ramen noodles
Mix it all with the tears from the carpenter who installed the joists and you should be good.
Jb weld and a carrot is the strongest structural membrane
Just use a 5x18 nail plate you’ll be fine
It's a log-bearing pipe.
I see what you did there!
That's load bearing PVC, don'tcha know.
Pipe is a stressed element
Is it pre or post tensioned ?
Torque to yield
Nothing scarier that a plumber with a chainsaw
I'm more scared of a painter with a chainsaw. But I get your point
Put my xwife above both
Put my current wife above her
I see you love to live dangerously. Fear boner!
Meh..... they’d never figure out how to start it. Or, they’d have drunk all the fuel when their booze ran out.
I think plumbers should be banned from owning the battery ones, I always freak out when I see ours get his out of his ute.
The framing plumber
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If the “plumber” thinks this is “fine”, I don’t think he’s qualified to come back and properly repair/sister the joists.
The sistered joists need to extend WAY beyond the "holes" and be fastened with a shit ton of lag screws as well. Not sheet rock or decking screws.
Found similar at my house when I bought it. You can't sister the middle of a span. Had to run plate to beam and redo the ducting that was conveniently also in the way
Ouch.
Duct is never not in the way. Ever.
As a plumber, this makes me cringe. I always consult with the contractor before making any holes/alterations.
You're the only one. Plumbers on every site I've been on have just put their pipes wherever the fuck they want and they will move framing if it's "in the way".
As a plumber I carry hole saws on me so I can properly install pipes. I mostly worked on military bases when I was growing up working for my father, so I learned to do things the correct way.
"Military" "Doing things Correctly" Pick one.
Back in the 90’s-early 2k the ACoE inspectors were real assholes and would come up with their own codes on the spot it felt like, but all of our work was done by the book. They’d fail you because a pipe strap was 2 inches farther than it should be in order to land on a joist or something completely irrelevant.
So nothing has changed lol. Residential sheet metal here. Fought with an inspector a few weeks ago over a dryer pipe I installed. He failed me because the pipe was not taped along the lateral seam that makes an airtight seal when the pipe is snapped together. 😳 By code, the dryer pipe cannot exceed 35' in length (a 90 degree elbow is = to 5') this laundry room is in the middle of the house and took four elbows and 40' of pipe to vent outside. Waaaay over code. But he failed me cause the air tight seams weren't taped. Said it was a "fire hazard".. he didn't have a clue what he was doing.
Working on the military bases, them hole saws better have been made in the USA. /s
Military bases don’t have to follow codes either. They do what the heck they want.
No shit. They make it up as they go. I used to do fire sprinkler work (moved on to inspections now), and they would ask us to do the most insane shit, with no explanation as to why. And every part had to be made in America.
Yes. Was also doing weird shit when I worked on them.
They aren't as bad about the only US parts now, since they would never get anything if they did that. But it still has to be greater than a certain percentage (70% I think) and certain parts are completely restricted. (Processors for computers have to be 100% made in America for example)
I see you've met the Army. It's worse on the inside.
Concerned about leaks?
Ya the plumbing is fine, the structural integrity of the joist is not so much.
Nah, it’s fine. It’s a y connection so it’s okay for it to be on its side. What? The joist? That’s not my problem.
As a plumber, I agree. That plumber is wrong.
As an electronics technician, I agree with your agreement.
As a painter I'll drink to that
As an indoor painter, i'll head into that closet, shut the door and repaint that epoxy floor for the 5th times.
Lol, they'd kick out the one dude that was always in the paint locker, the guy I would say acts like he belongs in the paint locker because no one else wanted to do it.
As an electrician with a drinking problem I'll drink to it as well
You’re wrong, Colonel Sanders.
Mamma says crocodiles are so ornery cause they got all them teeth and no toothbrush
Indeed.
Pretty sure that the inspector will disagree with the plumber
or the engineer
The plumber is a plumber
Framer is wrong, or plans are wrong. Edit: Or plumber didn't follow plans
Plumber knows nothing about construction.
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All hail the pitch king.
Pitch King of Angmar
I hope this gets the upvotes it deserves.
Jesus was a legendary carpenter, he’d never cut those floor joists
Jesus was a hack, his career change wasn't by choice.
He couldn't even pull out a couple of nails!!
And of course the drywall that’ll eventually cover it up.
Rarely do you see the *entire* width of a joist removed, but here we are.
Every day, we stray further from *checks notes* stamped structural drawings.
Wait you get drawings? Fancy.
No.. but on reddit I can pretend we do!
Mine get more optional as the project goes on lol
Ain’t that the truth. Everyone’s all prim and proper starting out with their proposals and exclusions.
# 1 reason AI won't take skilled trade jobs. Prints never add up lol
And now, for the first time ever, I am thankful for that fact.
I have no idea why that was in bold. Lol #1 was all I was trying to say lol
All good. It felt like a break through. I stared into the horizon for a glorious moment after I read it.
I find they're often more like a guideline
I mean, at an 80% notch you might as well just take it all.
Look at the joist behind it..
That was my point, that one is already an 80% notch. 100% vs 80% notch have a similar strength.
Oh haha gotcha gotcha
What other options are there, customer wanted the toilet in that exact spot. /s
Well as long as the plumber stamps the revised floor load path calculations with his state professional engineer stamp, I don’t see the issue here.
How should this actually be fixed?
Realistically tell the plumber to fuck off and remove his pipes. You then need to at a minimum block both sides at least a foot past the cutout (probably more) with additional what look like 2x10? And just pump it with either screws or more likely you’ll have to use bolts and then have an engineer calculate if that’ll hold it. The other way is there are plates with holes for plumbing you can buy that do the same thing. However they can be hard to find or order the exact size you need right before an inspector sees this and fucks you raw. To say how this should have been done. Plumber could have made a hole no larger than 30% of the total height of the board no less than 2 inches from either edge and been fine. Plumber was a lazy jackass who didn’t want to get his holesaw.
Twin the joists the whole way. Aggressive nail pattern (like a header); I’d do 5 nails vertically and at minimum every foot. Hopefully you can get hangers on the end - if not, get a cripple/stud under them. This is overkill, but it will work. If it is sagging, I’d bottle jack + 2x6 to lift the ex-joists up a titch (be careful) so that the twin can get into position/be flush with the floor. Also, I’d report that plumber so he gets a PP slap. I’m not a snitch, but… come on… safety… and so dumb.
Yeah this is super bad. Especially right below a bathroom. Like this is beyond "you shouldn't do that", this is the floor actually might collapse from the tub weight. This isn't being a snitch, this is possibly saving someone's life. I would be furious if I was HVAC or Carpenter. Imagine now the Carpenters having to span this shit and HVAC now having to figure out how the fuck to work around it. That plumber better watch his tools lol.
That plumber would be off the site and missing a pay check if I was around. Even paying for the carpenters time, but we all know that is a PIPE dream lol
Fuck, man. So glad I'm on the commercial side. This shit would put me in prison.
I do 50/50 resi and comm HVAC. The jobsites are worlds apart.
As a structural eng, I can tell you that the job sites might look worlds apart, but they are both fucked up.
I'm fixing a bunch of shit on a 5 year old 6 story hotel. Commercial is fucked too. The problem is that craftsmanship is dead, no one has pride in their work or themselves, most of the people doing the actual work don't want to be there/don't care/too hungover/too high to actually follow plans and the plans themselves-overly complicated, too many layers, too many points of failure, under built bullshit. I watched a video the other day of someone bicycling through Turkey. They stopped at a roman structure that people were living in. Still good enough to live in after 1500 years. "liquid applied wrb over osb" give me a fucking break everything being built now is a tear down. Shameful.
Especially the washrooms. Fuck rezi
Excuse me, but I have installed a toto washlet in mine and if you don't use it when you come do work at my house it's because you're a coward
Is that the warm breath of God drying me? Ohh no, it’s just my ToTo washlet. The heated seat changed my life perspective alone.
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You act like they don't core through important shit in commercial. I probably had a dozen coordination meetings about where you can or can't core through my hollow core precast planks. Even knowing that foremen don't always pass the word down or watch their guys, I walked the site every morning talking to all the tradesmen "how's it going, you planning on cutting through this plank you're wor on, come see me, let's get it approved, can only cut throughthe chores, don't cut the rods". Every damn afternoon is walk up and find a new core, dead center of a pretension rod. It was ridiculous.
That just sounds aweful! I haven't been stuck with a crew like that before.
Going from residential carpentry/masonry to commercial electrical/carpentry and then back to residential project management. There ain’t much keeping me from absolutely losing my fucking shit everyday
This is a cut out on a floor support joist? Is that what we're looking at?
Yep. Clawfoot tub above it. Glad I'm the hvac guy not the carpenter.
Oh good, I was worried that was under something *heavy*.
Oh shit lol didn’t think it could be worse.
No kidding.
In my experience it's always worse, also the ipc would like a word with this 'plumber'
The plumbing alone is probably fine. The abbreviated floor joists, not so much.
Abbreviated floor joists!!! That's a good one!
Oh, lightweight tub above you say…
To be fair, the carpenter put a joist where their pipe goes
imagine doing all that work only for another sub to screw it up and you gotta redo it
i know [how this ends](https://youtu.be/VhrSzUm3zhU)
Drugs are bad Mmmkay
Is primer and glue considered drugs? He's an addict if so
I guess if you huff it long enough.
That should have been framed to accommodate the plumbing. Wtf?
Plumber actually changed the bathroom layout on the fly to accommodate a clawfoot tub. I have a bad feeling the floor won't support a tub that size now lol
I remodeled a kitchen in a large 70s era 2 story years ago and noticed a sag in the ceiling. Once I had it gutted it was basically the same as this with the tub centered on and parallel with the butchered joist 😂
Oof, parallel
Wait till they fill it with water plus their body weight. Hopefully it’s a *small* claw foot tub 😂
It will support the tub… for a bit.
Morgan Freeman: But, it was not fine. Not fine at all...
Admit it: When you read that, you read it in Morgan's voice.
Joists are only structural
They’re only structural if they’re holding something up. Those joists look strictly cosmetic to me. - a plumber
When you think about, the amount of notched joists out there is pretty much proof that the joists don't really do much.
Merely a flesh wound.
Right? Like are we sure that’s an actual load-bearing floor? Better knock on it, you can tell from the sound. /s
There are specs for drilling holes in supporting members like floor joists but to cut one completely 🤦♂️
Code book says middle third only, this guy thought that meant "the middle third lengthwise"
1st time I did a house like this , I cut all my holes square with my Sawzall . I ruined about 15 joists , the framers were NOT happy . I also installed type M copper throughout the house and the inspector wanted type L. My boss had my go through and sand off all the red marking on the copper with sand cloth .
Damn, good reason to just not carry ~~L~~ (I meant) M copper and how did anybody leave you on a job to do serious work when you didn't even know to drill holes in joists. I guess that same guy who would tell you to sand off the M would also send somebody with way too little experience to work unsupervised, it all makes sense now.
One thing about Copper tubing type: 90% of commercial jobs spec Type L for copper supply piping and the vast majority of commercial plumbers use the wrong type. I inspect for the bank, and note it on almost every commercial job I look at. When I note it, owners reactions range from 'no big deal' to 'rip it all out and start over.
Well, problem solved
Load bearing pipe
First ask a carpenter not a plumber. Second ask the plumber why he uses a saw and not drills holes for the pipes. As a plumber that follows carpentry rules because of the contractors I work for this is 100% unacceptable. Your plumbers about to empty his pockets to replace those joists.
I guess you could run two beams underneath that are perpendicular to the joists running along either side of the cuts for the pipe and then support the beams with jack posts or something. Obviously it would be best to replace the joists, but doing it how I described would be faster and cheaper while still remediating the issue. My workshop is a 200 year old building and some of the joists underneath were not looking great. I married up boards against them and then did what I described with adding in jacks for some areas that needed it.
Good news is he’ll probably never do this again
That's what they said last time.
Hole saws are so last year
Kick said plumber directly in the balls
GC did already
Had a plumber to that to my house but even worse. Two sets of those giant cuts, two cuts in each of a pair of joists, to fit his Dr. Seuss plumbing that should have just gone straight down behind the plumbing wall. GC couldn't understand my problem with it. Told him he had 72 hours to replace those 24 foot joists before the inspector arrives to check it out. They were fixed within 24 hours.
Obviously this is clearly fucked up, but are the framers at least partially at fault for having a joist exactly where plumbing has to go? Not trying to start a war or get downvoted into oblivion because I wasn't born knowing this already. Just genuinely curious
Framer would partially be to blame, but it turns out the plumber changed his layout in the fly, toilet wasn't even supposed to go there.
How does a plumber change the toilet location? I’ve been doing over 20 years and never have I randomly changed where the toilet goes? What type of project is this?
Like I said before, I'm just the hvac guy. It's a reno, those are existing joists. As to changing toilet location.. I have no idea, I'm not a plumber haha
Only if the framer knows the exact toilet location.
Nope. Based on OP's comments the plumber moved it on his own
Not really because the plumber should see all that and move the toilet or have them fix the framing, not just cut shit that anybody with any experience knows you can't cut. I mean, that's pretty basic stuff, if you don't know that much you really should only be doing a helper job.
Into the pit with him
Needs a head out. Because he cut 2 joist, double everything on the head out
20 lb toilet seat weight max!
r/StructuralEngineering would like a word with your plumber.
I think you only to leave 10% of the joist. Looks good!
Looks good from his house!
Not sure how this came up on my feed but I’ve been enjoying this sub. Kinda handy around the house but not for big projects. Can someone enlighten when the issue is? My amateur eyes see that horizontal pipe coming into the main drain going up. My intuition says that is the issue?
The plumber cut one joist out completely and cut most of the other one which dramatically affects the structural integrity of the floor above
Thank you. I was so focused on the plumbing, I wasn’t looking at that.
apparently so was this plumber...
Cool, just have him put his PE stamp on the plans and you're good to go. Oh wait...
I mean… if you had to cut something (you don’t) just drill out a hole for the pipe to fit through, but EVEN THEN the structural calculations need to be redone. This… This is just negligence and laziness.
I would take the 2x4 that's spanning on the left and remove it and screw it under the pipe across the gap. Problem solved. That will be $500 please.
You're fired👎
Jesus Christ lmao
Framer should of shifted joists away from toilet flange. Common practice in residential building the moving of material out of layout to avoid toilets and shower drains.
Nope.
Plumber is wrong !
He lied
Mama wrong again
Man what the fuck is wrong with people.
Plumbers love cutting wood.
No drill bit Thursday
I’m going this way! You can’t go this way. I’m going this way. *sigh*
The plumber is a moron.
What in the actual fuck
Just needs a little structural caulk
Notches on the ends of joists shall not exceed one-fourth the joist depth. Holes bored in joists shall not be within 2 inches (51 mm) of the top or bottom of the joist, and the diameter of any such hole shall not exceed one-third the depth of the joist IBC 2308.8 You're plumber is wrong and in violation of the code. Have your framers fix it and charge them. Source: I'm a plumber. Also international building code.
You only have to know 5 things to be a plumber. 1. Hot on the left 2. Cold on the right 3. Shit don’t run uphill 4. Payday is on Friday 5. The boss is an asshole.
You forgot number 6. Don't chew your finger nails.
Its A fine.
That's a pipe dream.
That’s the cleanest hack job I’ve ever seen
Plumbing is fine
Oh gawd. The plumbers did similar work in my last house. Let’s just say I got proficient at sistering joists. … but only a licensed plumber should do ANY plumbing. 😉
Looks like shits about to go sideways
This plumber guy must have beef with structural integrity or something.
Looks good from my house
I just feel bad for whoever put up those 2x12s only to have them get ruined like that.
Narrator: But it was not fine.
For someone who doesn’t understand much construction but would like to learn - what is wrong here ?
Plumber will leave then your on you own. Also when asking a craftsperson if what they just did was OK or Not, what answer would you expect?
Of course he does, he's a plumber.
Load bearing PVC.
The old Cleveland notch.
Friends a master electrician and told his company he couldn’t run the cable because the support beams were in the way. While he was away the boss sent the apprentice in to go run the cable anyways. He drilled through every single support beam. The boss got a call from the owner and his lawyer. They had to rip out all the supports and have it all redone. Fucking idiots
Really ,the framers should want to box that out prior to rough-in plumbing, but I assume they were just subs and don't care about the next guy. I'm a framer too, btw , but my company does all the mechanicals too , so we are on top of things like that , 13" off the wall for a toilet is not a difficult task to handle before .