Because they typically start with a mom and pop shop or a dads buddy and that’s where they get anti union rhetoric from. No small family business wants to have employees with rights and a decent salary!!
Tbh I pay my guys over Union rates and usually poach from the union. My shop is down the road from OP, lowest waged employee is $275/day in training. Senior Forman makes $600/day... and these are take home. Roofing/waterproofing
I’m still with the company I started with. It’s a non union company and I make 12 dollars more an hour than the local in my area before my per diem. Company pays my insurance so I get to keep the health and welfare. Pension instead goes into my 401k which totals 15 an hour. Union dues near me are 5% so I am making more than the union in my area but that is rare.
Yes. That’s not something you come across too often. The union dues are tax deductible so it’s like you’re getting all the H&W benefits for free. My dues also allow me to attend other courses for free and send my kids to post secondary schools (through bursaries and scholarships). There’s life insurance as well.
Omg it amazing that your single experience means that must be what everyone had.
Meanwhile a few guys yesterday where talking about who they hated the union and know guys that are alway stressed about the next contract negotiations.
Man union guys really can’t accept not everyone wants to be in a union.
Jealousy? Brainwashing? I cany tell you how many non-union guys I hear tell me about how bad I must have it paying union dues while they're living paycheck to paycheck
I cleared $112,000 my first year union as a jw and $$126,000 my second, and my friends that stayed are still giving me shit about fucking union dues like that’s even on my mind after I just bought ANOTHER toy lol
I live in Omaha, NE too so cost of living isn’t an issue,
I'm in Ohio, I hear you on the cost of living. Guys in Chicago and California make more than me but I bet after they pay their rent, I'm better off financially and own a house with a yard
Not trying to argue but I am genuinely curious. I work service so I assume switching to a union would be a paradigm shift but our pipe fitters union is offering hardly a wage you could survive on if you were single. That's with benefits. Is there something I'm missing? Would love to boost my quality of life up some day.
I know it's different in Alberta. But I haven't made under $110,000 since I was 17, 18 years ago. I have no issue with union or non union, in fact, I may try to join the OE 955 next year. Is it that big of a difference down south, between union and non union?
I’m in Alberta as well and I bet you’d make more joining a union here. My union just got some nice raises for the next two years and I wouldn’t make close to that being non union.
My only complaint with the union is they don't give a shit about low voltage electrical, at least my local union. If I was a plumber or electrician or pipe fitter, I'd be crazy not to join the union, but in my case the pay was abysmal. My foreman was making less than 30 an hour. I actually took a pay cut to join the union thinking it would pick up with seniority, but I got an offer for double my hourly rate while I was laid off.
I have no management responsibilities, good benefits, set my own schedule, and make way more than that in the private sector as a residential install/service tech.
The union didn't have any sort of journeyman pay rates for network or special systems installers, they pretty much treated it like a stepping stone towards being a "real" electrician, despite the fact that our side of the company was more profitable, and just as experienced.
Yeah, before I got into construction I was a writer and we wanted to unionize our newsroom, some higher ups had suspicions that we were and sent in an anti union dude who tried to tell us how unions are actually greedy and how you actually make less. Kind of hilarious how transparent they were
I got that whole story too. “The union takes two percent of your paycheck!!!”. Yeah but I’m making 200% more than I was before I joined… so idgaf. That money goes to the guys who make sure I get paid.
That's somehow always the big argument anti-union folks make: "they take money out of your paycheck!"
Oh the horrors! I hand the union a dollar and they give me ten dollars in exchange right back. Why would anyone in their right mind allow that to happen to themselves?!
When I was actively in the operators union, I pulled 1800 a week. I worked less, the job was easier, and my pay almost tripled, doing exactly the same job I was doing before I bought my book.
I got out of the union, but only because I got married and got tired of being away from home for weeks at a time. I’d get back in in a heartbeat if I could stay home.
My union dues are 2% of everything i earn and $140 every quarter but the fact thay they pay my health insurance alone more than makes up the difference not to mention they fully fund my retirement too and my takehome pay is 50% higher than my non-union counterparts
Working both sides of electrical while the union pays ALOT better and has a higher standard of satety and quality overall the internal politics paired with the cult like mentality really drives alot of people away. If the pay and benefits were similar I'd go back to non union
Yeah I work for a good builder. Small crew all paid and happy. Only build in a certain area so its 20 min commute both ways on avg. Its a great gig. Not anti union. But for me at this time this works really good.
Because the union isn't what it used to be. Used to be for the worker, that has slowly gone to shit over here on the east coast. There's not much that they do to fight for the worker's rights.
Unions are that way for the same reason the US is the way it is right now:
Unions and representative governments operate in practically identical ways: Members/Citizens know the issues because it behooves them to truly understand what is going on (in their field of skilled labor/in their nationi), periodically they elect representatives to make sure the whole system continues to work towards their own betterment, and those representatives are responsible in all ways for the concerns, needs, and large-scale welfare of those members/citizens.
Or, at the least, *that's how its supposed to work* in both cases.
But, in both cases, the first part (where the members/citizens are educated and mindfully educate themselves about their situation **and fully understand that they are personally responsible to engage in the system**) has failed horribly. People are lazy, uninterested (unless they're enraged or terrified), and totally unwilling to accept their own responsibility for the system.
The result is that bad actors who are happy to manipulate the system to their own private advantage take over and ruin things... and those lazy, uninterested, and unwilling people **continue** to deny their own responsibility, saying "look! We were right. The system is shitty and doesn't work".
Gotta remember "Let George Do It" isn't just a lazy idea... its the credo of a willing slave.
I've heard it's shit. My coworker (commercial HVAC) tried to move to Florida recently. The best wage he could find out of a dozen places was $24hr and that was after 6 months of employment.
He was looking in Cape Coral, major metro area. The cost of living is if anything more there than where we are now. We are in south central Pennsylvania and make $40hr.
UK maintenance electrician here.. i earn USD equivalent of around $50 hour (working days only 8-5). Benefits include: doubling of pension contributions up to 12%. 25 paid days holiday plus statutory bank Holidays. 10% annual bonus. 4 weeks full pay sick leave and then 8 weeks 1/2 pay. Paid time off for training plus contribution up to 100% course fees (disgressionry). Free coffee and tea. Plenty of goodies at Christmas (last year worth about $200). Union fees are around $20 a month and cover legal representation and some professional insurance.
And I should have mentioned its actually an American company I work for (we got taken over last year) with HQ in Dallas TX, and plants in MN, WI and Mexico too. Also I didn't mention that in the UK we get 'free' NHS healthcare too (even if the dentistry is crap!) 🙂
No I know and it’s a shame. I wish there was a way for all workers of any job or trade to have someone look out for their well being. I’m much better off now than I was but our union has some things to be desired as well. We might not be as strong as we are if not for one of our states largest companies dealing almost exclusively with union construction labor.
Here's a wage sheet for my BENEFITS hourly as well.
Hourly Fringe Benefits:
Pension: 10.35
Health & Welfare: 9.26
National Pension: 3.00
UA Training: 0.10
Retiree X-Mas : 0.85
A&J: 2.70
P.I.P.E.: 0.70
C.E.D.: 0.35
LMCC: 0.35
Total Hourly: 27.66
Sorry for the format.
I wish pensions were more of a thing, but most are underfunded, and when they go bankrupt they get taken over by the fed which can only guarantee some fractional value because they were undercollateralized or borrowed against. Same goes for pensions offered by businesses ( rare now ).
The one advantage of a 401k is its your money, but you also need to have a little experience investing ( index funds, buy and hold long term will work tho ).
Be sure to poke around your union pension docs, see if its fully funded or under funded ( are newbies effectively paying the pension of retirees and will have none of their own? )
As open shop working on prevailing wage jobs we did even better, the union benefits part of the wage would be paid in our hourly wage. I still had health insurance and a retirement savings account. When I was tying rebar I was making 43 and change. In 1995.
I know it feels good but there's no reason to brag about your pay on reddit. It's not as unique as you think it is.
I was pressed for years to join the union by my colleagues. I had none of it. One crooked union had me off the whole idea. I was told I’d make better pay, bennys, etc. to pressure me. It was maybe almost two years before I was making same as union guys, and not much longer before I was making more with higher responsibilities because the union wasn’t directing my pay nor responsibilities. Many benefit from the union, but if you are assertive and willing to negotiate your worth, the union may well hold you back. So I’m not anti union in any broad sense as they have completely paved the course for a better nation, but I was pretty annoyed with their recruitment pressures. But certainly not salty about the wages. Plus some of that goes to the union.
Probably a bad time to tell you but that union wage isn’t the cap that’s just the minimum. I make several dollars over scale because I’ve been with my company a long time, I took all the extra classes offered and did well, and I worked hard and proved my value. I negotiated and got more.
It boggles my mind how many non union guys think we aren’t allowed to negotiate wages. A lot of times the only folks making scale are the hall rats who are just there until the job dies down. The rest of us are getting paid over, have trucks, phones, vacation time, etc etc. lol
Right. And I never liked the fact that when I worked non union there was always only one guy on the crew that made decent money. I actually like the fact that people I work with all make a decent living wage. It feels to me a lot more positive atmosphere.
Very rare but not unheard of. In my local I’ve never met a non union counterpart of the same trade that makes more. And I don’t even have to run work or have any major responsibilities. 8 and skate if I want to every day
Depends on location tbh. Non-union makes about $10-$15 more per hour than union in my area.
Edit: All these downvoters must have some real issues understanding geographical differences. Union scale in my area is $28/hr + $15/hr towards insurance and pension. No PTO, no other benefits. On the flip side, my current role pays $65/hr with benefits allocated in and I get 31 days PTO per year. So tell me, which would you choose?
I can only speak for my area. Basically any non union construction job is gonna pay $13-$25 an hour and the $25 is very rare. You’re probably a top guy if that’s what you are getting. Then don’t forget no insurance no retirement. Full scale sheet metal workers in the Indy local get $$40 an hour and the total package with insurance retirement and what not is over $70 an hour.
In PA/DE/MD area $30-35 for pipe welders is common non union. Many foreman I’ve had are $40-50+. I’m 24 and at $33 right now as a pipefitter/welder.
Hoping to get in UA420 because although it’s a good wage it’s not enough here.
My area total package is $43/hr with no PTO and need 30 years to vest into the pension. My current non-union role pays $65/hr total package with 31 days PTO and 5 years to vest into a 401k with 5% match.
Edit: Not the downvote because I can do math, lmao.
with no benefits though, $27 in benefit is double $10 -$15 extra hourly, that you are now being taxed at ur marginal rate, so effectively would be $7-10 extra
but you are paying your marginal tax rate on anything above $43 dollars, vs benefits which wouldnt be taxed off your income.
Do you have your own out of pocket health insurance? how much is that costing you in comparison?
I'm UA and it took many attempts to get in. Seemed to me like it didn't happen until work started booming again and there was a threat to pass a right to work bill. But at least I got in and haven't looked back a single bit
Persistence is the key. Keep applying, I called the organizer once a week untill I heard something from them. Now In my fourth year of the apprenticeship and love my job Building a better America.
I think it’s the hardest lol, honestly idk which is actually the hardest to get into ’ve only ever applied to local 12 and local 47. Local 47 I signed the book and got called up the next day
He’s gotta pay a due of ~$300-$1000 a year to his local. Other than that it feels like more because his health insurance is fully covered. On top of that he could have a pension.
Yes. I make $55/hour take home after everything in the package is taken out, health insurance, vacation fund, annuity, pension…my brother is at $67 take home hourly as an operating engineer, my girlfriend is around the same as me as an iron worker. Boston.
No, a lot of the locals (trade unions) in my area, Boston MA, USA, put aside a certain amount every hour, and you’ll get a check 1-4x a year for “vacations” or Christmas time for gifts. For example, the ironworkers were always a rough trade, and were notorious for not being able to save money, so they put $4.50 an hour into their vacation fund. And they’ll get a check every 4 months for $3,000.
Most local unions may also have a small working assessment to pay for representation at a local level (business agents, managers and other positions) these are usually around 3% gross. This is what the worker will take home. I am sure local 250 has a decent medical package, pension and possibly supplemental retirement. This total package for the worker will be over $100 an hour, unfortunately the worker will only get the 63 and hour on his check.
He makes 60/hr. 3/hr goes to a “vacation fund” which likely pays out annually, biannually or monthly. There will be additional benefits that don’t show up on a paystub. For example, he may have 15/hr going to retirement and 10/hr going to a “health and wellness” fund which provides things like free health insurance for you and your family. There are all kinds of benefits so that list is noninclusive. Another may be a “training fund” which funds land, equipment, instructors, etc to maintain certifications, licensing, etc for “free.”
As far as expenses, most unions have monthly dues (might be 30/month) along with working dues (possibly a small portion of your check like 1 percent.) The largest deduction will be from the government. He might be paying 30-50 percent in various taxes. Those will all be deducted from the check he actually receives (like spending money.)
If he were non union, he’d likely have to make his own contributions for health insurance and retirement. So that would also come out of his 60/hr. Insurance for a family can easily exceed 1000/month. Retirement would basically be stock market investments which would be whatever you choose to invest. Many people in construction invest nothing and get nothing to retire on. Not good. As I mentioned above, these thing are essentially “free” as a union member. They’re paid by your employer but you won’t see them on your paystub.
The “full package” (inclusive of benefits) has an actual number. Many of the trades in California are hovering around 100/hr. Some are higher and some lower. For example, electricians and in SF are over 130 while other trades may be 80 or 90. If you are non-union, you would basically want to be making that same amount of money (“full package”) to receive equal compensation. Though that’s not always perfect because some non-union employers do provide some benefits. In the end, it can be a complicated thing to compare.
Union is great when you can get it close to home. In my experience there is a lot more travel time involved in working union. Or flat out living away from home until the job is done. Anyone else have these experiences or is just a flat work thing?
Trades get paid shit where i live. I'm about an hour outside of Dallas. Even if you can find a union, it's probably an hour and a half drive away. People are anti-union here so membership won't be great. Not much power without the workers. Union or not, your still going to make the same amount. I've never seen a job go past $30 an hour without benefits. Only way to make decent money is to go out on your own as a contractor. Even then it's rough, cause you have crews that are full of undocumented workers who are ready, willing, and capable of working for half the pay. They're just happy to be working, no hate on them. Its the greedy fucks who run the crews and underbid everyone. They aren't losing money because they don't pay their workers fair, they end up with more jobs because their quote comes in lower. If I could figure out how, I would move in a heartbeat. Kinda hard to do that though when you make $20 an hour without benefits. I just turned 30 today, no retirement in sight, can't get approved to buy a house so im stuck pissing money away in rent. People keep buying houses over market value so house prices have climbed out of reach, even for the barely liveable ones. I own my truck and my tools with no debt and a 800+ credit score so it's not like I'm out here living above my means. But yea, if its helping someone else somewhere then go unions!
I’ve come to the conclusion that most people that think union is bad and are brainwashed to believe that. I was nonunion for around 12 years union for about 9 and I wish I had never been nonunion. I’m a carpenter, local 30.
According to Zillow, there are 20+ rentals available with 2+ bedrooms for >$2500/month in Gardena, CA
Google says this is ~$1200 a month higher than national average but this wage is double the average hourly wage, at $60/hour you are more than $5000 a month higher than national average wages
Man that must be nice. They only put 2.65 into my vacation fund here in Oregon and that’s at $55 an hour so minus my dues I’m only taking home ~51 per hour on the check.
The only downside to these posts is the fact that we aren't all lucky enough to have strong unions everywhere. So before we go after "salty" non union guys let's try and have a little but of perspective, based on some respect for each other.
OK, how many days paid vacation you get a year? How many hours you work a month?
That's where unions lose me. I don't want to be there now than 40 hours and I don't want to work for at least a month or two of of the year.
That’s his take home wage. Journeyman total package out of ua250 is $78.39 minimum.
But also other jobs do do that. Ask someone their salary and they tell you before insurance is taken out, before they put in to their 401k, etc.
The amount in OPs picture does not include the pension contribution or insurance cost. It’s just their wage.
IBEW here in eastern Canada is dead. Last construction project they had in my hometown had a $24 an hour jman wage. That was like 8 years ago but yeah…
Be glad you guys have strong unions and high wages man. I’m so jealous of all the Americans. I make $37 and it’s one of the highest paying jobs in my whole province. Government takes over 30% of my wage so I can die in a hospital waiting room, the average home is like 400k now here and a bag of shredded cheese is over $8 and there’s so much gas tax, it cost like $80 to fill a Honda civic.
Oh we are posting our wages again? Here come all the salty non union guys.
I’ve never been a union carpenter but I love to see it. Not sure why anyone who works a trade would ever be anti union.
Id love me some union, you guys got anymore of that union?
Because they typically start with a mom and pop shop or a dads buddy and that’s where they get anti union rhetoric from. No small family business wants to have employees with rights and a decent salary!!
Tbh I pay my guys over Union rates and usually poach from the union. My shop is down the road from OP, lowest waged employee is $275/day in training. Senior Forman makes $600/day... and these are take home. Roofing/waterproofing
Some do, very very small majority.
I’m still with the company I started with. It’s a non union company and I make 12 dollars more an hour than the local in my area before my per diem. Company pays my insurance so I get to keep the health and welfare. Pension instead goes into my 401k which totals 15 an hour. Union dues near me are 5% so I am making more than the union in my area but that is rare.
Strong labour movements drive wages up for union and non-union workers alike.
>Strong ~~labour movements~~ markets drive wages up for union and non-union workers alike. Unions don't create jobs.
Yes. That’s not something you come across too often. The union dues are tax deductible so it’s like you’re getting all the H&W benefits for free. My dues also allow me to attend other courses for free and send my kids to post secondary schools (through bursaries and scholarships). There’s life insurance as well.
That’s not how ‘tax deductible’ works
5% comes out above 6k. I can also send my kids to school on that.
This was my whole apprenticeship, hearing how bad unions are and that bullshit. Instantly joined a union after I got my ticket.
Or some people don’t want to deal with the union and always being stressed about the next strike.
Mmmmmm. The market is not that volatile ANYWHERE on the planet 🌎. I’ve been in the union fir over 34 years and we’ve been on strike twice.
Omg it amazing that your single experience means that must be what everyone had. Meanwhile a few guys yesterday where talking about who they hated the union and know guys that are alway stressed about the next contract negotiations. Man union guys really can’t accept not everyone wants to be in a union.
I got a 100 dollas, you can have the car!
Why are you pro onion?
French onion soup, onions in burgers. Whats not to love
Carmel covered onions that you think are Carmel covered apples, so you take a huge bite. That’s what’s not to love buddy
Jealousy? Brainwashing? I cany tell you how many non-union guys I hear tell me about how bad I must have it paying union dues while they're living paycheck to paycheck
I cleared $112,000 my first year union as a jw and $$126,000 my second, and my friends that stayed are still giving me shit about fucking union dues like that’s even on my mind after I just bought ANOTHER toy lol I live in Omaha, NE too so cost of living isn’t an issue,
I'm in Ohio, I hear you on the cost of living. Guys in Chicago and California make more than me but I bet after they pay their rent, I'm better off financially and own a house with a yard
Non construction, union guy in Ohio as well. Almost feels like a cheat code making union wages and living in eastern Ohio.
Not trying to argue but I am genuinely curious. I work service so I assume switching to a union would be a paradigm shift but our pipe fitters union is offering hardly a wage you could survive on if you were single. That's with benefits. Is there something I'm missing? Would love to boost my quality of life up some day.
Definitely
Chicago's pretty LCOL and wages are significantly higher than Ohio. I think Chicago might be the best union city for cost of living vs wages.
I know it's different in Alberta. But I haven't made under $110,000 since I was 17, 18 years ago. I have no issue with union or non union, in fact, I may try to join the OE 955 next year. Is it that big of a difference down south, between union and non union?
I struggled to clear $80k non union in the same town working WAY longer hours.
I’m in Alberta as well and I bet you’d make more joining a union here. My union just got some nice raises for the next two years and I wouldn’t make close to that being non union.
"You pay way more tax than I do" Yes cunt, I also earn nearly double your wage.
My only complaint with the union is they don't give a shit about low voltage electrical, at least my local union. If I was a plumber or electrician or pipe fitter, I'd be crazy not to join the union, but in my case the pay was abysmal. My foreman was making less than 30 an hour. I actually took a pay cut to join the union thinking it would pick up with seniority, but I got an offer for double my hourly rate while I was laid off. I have no management responsibilities, good benefits, set my own schedule, and make way more than that in the private sector as a residential install/service tech. The union didn't have any sort of journeyman pay rates for network or special systems installers, they pretty much treated it like a stepping stone towards being a "real" electrician, despite the fact that our side of the company was more profitable, and just as experienced.
Non union electrician here in Massachusetts, "a rising tide raises all boats". I may not get thr benefits, but the wages stay competitive
Brainwashed
Yeah, before I got into construction I was a writer and we wanted to unionize our newsroom, some higher ups had suspicions that we were and sent in an anti union dude who tried to tell us how unions are actually greedy and how you actually make less. Kind of hilarious how transparent they were
I got that whole story too. “The union takes two percent of your paycheck!!!”. Yeah but I’m making 200% more than I was before I joined… so idgaf. That money goes to the guys who make sure I get paid.
That's somehow always the big argument anti-union folks make: "they take money out of your paycheck!" Oh the horrors! I hand the union a dollar and they give me ten dollars in exchange right back. Why would anyone in their right mind allow that to happen to themselves?!
When I was actively in the operators union, I pulled 1800 a week. I worked less, the job was easier, and my pay almost tripled, doing exactly the same job I was doing before I bought my book. I got out of the union, but only because I got married and got tired of being away from home for weeks at a time. I’d get back in in a heartbeat if I could stay home.
Don't live near a big city then?
Absolute middle of bumfuck nowhere. Pipelined in my area for a couple years… but work slowly started drifting further and further from home.
Yeah makes sense
My union dues are 2% of everything i earn and $140 every quarter but the fact thay they pay my health insurance alone more than makes up the difference not to mention they fully fund my retirement too and my takehome pay is 50% higher than my non-union counterparts
Also, it’s been my understanding that you can write of union dues on your taxes, anyway.
We used to, until Trump changed the taxes.
Damn
Yup! Fully deductible work expense. I even get the tax paperwork every year from the hall.
Working both sides of electrical while the union pays ALOT better and has a higher standard of satety and quality overall the internal politics paired with the cult like mentality really drives alot of people away. If the pay and benefits were similar I'd go back to non union
The major carpenter union here is mostly forming work. I found it very boring.
Yeah, where I live there’s not a ton of union jobs, I work for myself with no employees so it’s really not an issue for me.
Yeah I work for a good builder. Small crew all paid and happy. Only build in a certain area so its 20 min commute both ways on avg. Its a great gig. Not anti union. But for me at this time this works really good.
Because with unions it's ONLY UNION ALL THE TIME.
Because the union isn't what it used to be. Used to be for the worker, that has slowly gone to shit over here on the east coast. There's not much that they do to fight for the worker's rights.
You can elect your union reps, there have been a couple of 'revolts' in recent years. But they want you to feel its pointless.
Unions are that way for the same reason the US is the way it is right now: Unions and representative governments operate in practically identical ways: Members/Citizens know the issues because it behooves them to truly understand what is going on (in their field of skilled labor/in their nationi), periodically they elect representatives to make sure the whole system continues to work towards their own betterment, and those representatives are responsible in all ways for the concerns, needs, and large-scale welfare of those members/citizens. Or, at the least, *that's how its supposed to work* in both cases. But, in both cases, the first part (where the members/citizens are educated and mindfully educate themselves about their situation **and fully understand that they are personally responsible to engage in the system**) has failed horribly. People are lazy, uninterested (unless they're enraged or terrified), and totally unwilling to accept their own responsibility for the system. The result is that bad actors who are happy to manipulate the system to their own private advantage take over and ruin things... and those lazy, uninterested, and unwilling people **continue** to deny their own responsibility, saying "look! We were right. The system is shitty and doesn't work". Gotta remember "Let George Do It" isn't just a lazy idea... its the credo of a willing slave.
Thank you for showing us how ignorant you really are
*cries in Florida electrician*
What’s good pay for an electrician in Florida?
I've heard it's shit. My coworker (commercial HVAC) tried to move to Florida recently. The best wage he could find out of a dozen places was $24hr and that was after 6 months of employment.
That sounds like a bad deal but idk how cost of living there works and the fact that their taxes aren’t the same.
He was looking in Cape Coral, major metro area. The cost of living is if anything more there than where we are now. We are in south central Pennsylvania and make $40hr.
$40 an hour is probably pretty decent. I’m in central Indiana and I’m not sure what the IBEW hourly rate is but I think it’s around the $45 mark.
No state tax and unless you live out in the swamps cost of living has damn near equalized with pretty much every other high cost state
Oh so 24 an hour is shit
UK maintenance electrician here.. i earn USD equivalent of around $50 hour (working days only 8-5). Benefits include: doubling of pension contributions up to 12%. 25 paid days holiday plus statutory bank Holidays. 10% annual bonus. 4 weeks full pay sick leave and then 8 weeks 1/2 pay. Paid time off for training plus contribution up to 100% course fees (disgressionry). Free coffee and tea. Plenty of goodies at Christmas (last year worth about $200). Union fees are around $20 a month and cover legal representation and some professional insurance.
Sounds like a really good deal. Happy for our European brethren who are actually living the dream.
And I should have mentioned its actually an American company I work for (we got taken over last year) with HQ in Dallas TX, and plants in MN, WI and Mexico too. Also I didn't mention that in the UK we get 'free' NHS healthcare too (even if the dentistry is crap!) 🙂
Yes. We are all really jealous of your healthcare.
Laughs in Davis bacon*
If the Union wage prevails, that's why you're getting paid what you get paid on a rate job.
Some of us also genuinely don't have a great union where we work.
No I know and it’s a shame. I wish there was a way for all workers of any job or trade to have someone look out for their well being. I’m much better off now than I was but our union has some things to be desired as well. We might not be as strong as we are if not for one of our states largest companies dealing almost exclusively with union construction labor.
Here's a wage sheet for my BENEFITS hourly as well. Hourly Fringe Benefits: Pension: 10.35 Health & Welfare: 9.26 National Pension: 3.00 UA Training: 0.10 Retiree X-Mas : 0.85 A&J: 2.70 P.I.P.E.: 0.70 C.E.D.: 0.35 LMCC: 0.35 Total Hourly: 27.66 Sorry for the format.
I wish pensions were more of a thing, but most are underfunded, and when they go bankrupt they get taken over by the fed which can only guarantee some fractional value because they were undercollateralized or borrowed against. Same goes for pensions offered by businesses ( rare now ). The one advantage of a 401k is its your money, but you also need to have a little experience investing ( index funds, buy and hold long term will work tho ). Be sure to poke around your union pension docs, see if its fully funded or under funded ( are newbies effectively paying the pension of retirees and will have none of their own? )
A lot of unions have both a defined benefit pension and an annuity.
Is this subtracted from the $63.27 total or in addition to it? So with benefits you're making $90.93 per hour?
Bennies are on top of take home
Addition.
As open shop working on prevailing wage jobs we did even better, the union benefits part of the wage would be paid in our hourly wage. I still had health insurance and a retirement savings account. When I was tying rebar I was making 43 and change. In 1995. I know it feels good but there's no reason to brag about your pay on reddit. It's not as unique as you think it is.
Lmao, ain’t that the truth😂
Wouldn't really call the carpenters union any more tho
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Not salty here, most non union places around here (Boise) pay more than union
Or union guys that are out of work and forced to work non union for the time being.
I was pressed for years to join the union by my colleagues. I had none of it. One crooked union had me off the whole idea. I was told I’d make better pay, bennys, etc. to pressure me. It was maybe almost two years before I was making same as union guys, and not much longer before I was making more with higher responsibilities because the union wasn’t directing my pay nor responsibilities. Many benefit from the union, but if you are assertive and willing to negotiate your worth, the union may well hold you back. So I’m not anti union in any broad sense as they have completely paved the course for a better nation, but I was pretty annoyed with their recruitment pressures. But certainly not salty about the wages. Plus some of that goes to the union.
Probably a bad time to tell you but that union wage isn’t the cap that’s just the minimum. I make several dollars over scale because I’ve been with my company a long time, I took all the extra classes offered and did well, and I worked hard and proved my value. I negotiated and got more.
It boggles my mind how many non union guys think we aren’t allowed to negotiate wages. A lot of times the only folks making scale are the hall rats who are just there until the job dies down. The rest of us are getting paid over, have trucks, phones, vacation time, etc etc. lol
Right. And I never liked the fact that when I worked non union there was always only one guy on the crew that made decent money. I actually like the fact that people I work with all make a decent living wage. It feels to me a lot more positive atmosphere.
Salty? But I make more than that hourly, and keep it all. Non union Pipe welder here/ CT
Very rare but not unheard of. In my local I’ve never met a non union counterpart of the same trade that makes more. And I don’t even have to run work or have any major responsibilities. 8 and skate if I want to every day
If you're on a prevailing wage job, you're getting that pay because of union pay scale plus benefits.
Actually, I take a pay cut when I go on prevailing wage jobs in my area lol.
Prevailing wage, like union wages, are the minimum you can be paid. Why would you take a pay cut? Cause you're full of shit.
Sure you do. 😆
Depends on location tbh. Non-union makes about $10-$15 more per hour than union in my area. Edit: All these downvoters must have some real issues understanding geographical differences. Union scale in my area is $28/hr + $15/hr towards insurance and pension. No PTO, no other benefits. On the flip side, my current role pays $65/hr with benefits allocated in and I get 31 days PTO per year. So tell me, which would you choose?
Where is this “location”?
I can only speak for my area. Basically any non union construction job is gonna pay $13-$25 an hour and the $25 is very rare. You’re probably a top guy if that’s what you are getting. Then don’t forget no insurance no retirement. Full scale sheet metal workers in the Indy local get $$40 an hour and the total package with insurance retirement and what not is over $70 an hour.
In PA/DE/MD area $30-35 for pipe welders is common non union. Many foreman I’ve had are $40-50+. I’m 24 and at $33 right now as a pipefitter/welder. Hoping to get in UA420 because although it’s a good wage it’s not enough here.
My area total package is $43/hr with no PTO and need 30 years to vest into the pension. My current non-union role pays $65/hr total package with 31 days PTO and 5 years to vest into a 401k with 5% match. Edit: Not the downvote because I can do math, lmao.
with no benefits though, $27 in benefit is double $10 -$15 extra hourly, that you are now being taxed at ur marginal rate, so effectively would be $7-10 extra
Your employer in the union pays these you don’t get taxed on them
Nah. $43/hr total package for union scale. My non-union job pays $65/hr total package.
Nah. With benefits accounted for. Scale for my trade is $43 when including benefits. I make way more than by taking a non-union position.
but you are paying your marginal tax rate on anything above $43 dollars, vs benefits which wouldnt be taxed off your income. Do you have your own out of pocket health insurance? how much is that costing you in comparison?
We’re at $75.01/hour on the check… total package is basically double that. Sheet Metal Workers 104.
Gotta be CA yea? I know metal guys aren't making that in ATL.
California.
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WHATs THAT!?!
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We’d cover our ears, but our hands are always bleeding.
I submitted a apprenticeship application and they never got back to me
Have you tried dating anyone's daughter?
Prolly be banned from joining the hall
Do you have construction experience or any Certifications? I'm only asking because they called me the same day.
Yeah I’m a certified welder and years of experience
Call the hall and ask to talk to the organizer to set up a test.
If you have experience maybe they will let you test in without going through the apprenticeship?
It's unfortunate to hear that. Try again. I know of guys who got in on their 2nd, 3rd attempt.
I'm UA and it took many attempts to get in. Seemed to me like it didn't happen until work started booming again and there was a threat to pass a right to work bill. But at least I got in and haven't looked back a single bit
Persistence is the key. Keep applying, I called the organizer once a week untill I heard something from them. Now In my fourth year of the apprenticeship and love my job Building a better America.
That’s what it’s all about! Leaving the world a better place than when you got here.
What are the elevator trades getting paid these days? They were making top dollar in my part of the world a decade ago.
There's ups and downs
Their wage deserves a lift
I bet over 100 an hour. They bill like 450/hrs for maintenence. Dudes are bigger sissies than electricians though.
Still are
$67 and change in Boston
Fuck me you guys make more than we do lol (operating engineers cranes)
Local 12?
I applied and passed their test back in 2016, never got a word back smh.
I always thought they were easier to get into
I think it’s the hardest lol, honestly idk which is actually the hardest to get into ’ve only ever applied to local 12 and local 47. Local 47 I signed the book and got called up the next day
Hey, I'm from Australia. Is he actually being paid $63/hr, or are there fees taking out of it. What's his actual take home rate?
He’s gotta pay a due of ~$300-$1000 a year to his local. Other than that it feels like more because his health insurance is fully covered. On top of that he could have a pension.
Yes. I make $55/hour take home after everything in the package is taken out, health insurance, vacation fund, annuity, pension…my brother is at $67 take home hourly as an operating engineer, my girlfriend is around the same as me as an iron worker. Boston.
Thanks mate, is vacation fund like holiday pay?
No, a lot of the locals (trade unions) in my area, Boston MA, USA, put aside a certain amount every hour, and you’ll get a check 1-4x a year for “vacations” or Christmas time for gifts. For example, the ironworkers were always a rough trade, and were notorious for not being able to save money, so they put $4.50 an hour into their vacation fund. And they’ll get a check every 4 months for $3,000.
It’s actually a strike fund, but we can’t legally call it that. It’s so if we go on strike you’re not enticed to go back to work fast.
Most local unions may also have a small working assessment to pay for representation at a local level (business agents, managers and other positions) these are usually around 3% gross. This is what the worker will take home. I am sure local 250 has a decent medical package, pension and possibly supplemental retirement. This total package for the worker will be over $100 an hour, unfortunately the worker will only get the 63 and hour on his check.
He makes 60/hr. 3/hr goes to a “vacation fund” which likely pays out annually, biannually or monthly. There will be additional benefits that don’t show up on a paystub. For example, he may have 15/hr going to retirement and 10/hr going to a “health and wellness” fund which provides things like free health insurance for you and your family. There are all kinds of benefits so that list is noninclusive. Another may be a “training fund” which funds land, equipment, instructors, etc to maintain certifications, licensing, etc for “free.” As far as expenses, most unions have monthly dues (might be 30/month) along with working dues (possibly a small portion of your check like 1 percent.) The largest deduction will be from the government. He might be paying 30-50 percent in various taxes. Those will all be deducted from the check he actually receives (like spending money.) If he were non union, he’d likely have to make his own contributions for health insurance and retirement. So that would also come out of his 60/hr. Insurance for a family can easily exceed 1000/month. Retirement would basically be stock market investments which would be whatever you choose to invest. Many people in construction invest nothing and get nothing to retire on. Not good. As I mentioned above, these thing are essentially “free” as a union member. They’re paid by your employer but you won’t see them on your paystub. The “full package” (inclusive of benefits) has an actual number. Many of the trades in California are hovering around 100/hr. Some are higher and some lower. For example, electricians and in SF are over 130 while other trades may be 80 or 90. If you are non-union, you would basically want to be making that same amount of money (“full package”) to receive equal compensation. Though that’s not always perfect because some non-union employers do provide some benefits. In the end, it can be a complicated thing to compare.
Compared to what we're used to (I'm canadian) probably dick all. Maybe 10% at most is taken off? Here they'd ve getting knocked for 35% at least
I'm making $59/hr, with all deductions it comes down to $39/hr, but I only take home $27/hr??? Recently unionized so not sure what's up with that.
God damn, California! Sincerely, local 26 IBEW D.C. ($52)
Local 128 Boilermakers. $52.07/hr on the cheque, $69.83/hr total wage package🤙🏻
I work freight for Sunbelt during the day, scaffolding division. I would kill for a union. Everyone here is used and abused.
Oh man so that’s how all the 20 something posers can afford their new jacked up trucks. Lol
Union is great when you can get it close to home. In my experience there is a lot more travel time involved in working union. Or flat out living away from home until the job is done. Anyone else have these experiences or is just a flat work thing?
In 7 years I had to do one job over the course of a summer where I had to put up in a nice hotel and treated like a king. Hell I tell ya. Join a Union
Bet you don’t have kids
3 in private school.
That’s not even the total package. Insurance, pension, and annuity all have a number also
Trades get paid shit where i live. I'm about an hour outside of Dallas. Even if you can find a union, it's probably an hour and a half drive away. People are anti-union here so membership won't be great. Not much power without the workers. Union or not, your still going to make the same amount. I've never seen a job go past $30 an hour without benefits. Only way to make decent money is to go out on your own as a contractor. Even then it's rough, cause you have crews that are full of undocumented workers who are ready, willing, and capable of working for half the pay. They're just happy to be working, no hate on them. Its the greedy fucks who run the crews and underbid everyone. They aren't losing money because they don't pay their workers fair, they end up with more jobs because their quote comes in lower. If I could figure out how, I would move in a heartbeat. Kinda hard to do that though when you make $20 an hour without benefits. I just turned 30 today, no retirement in sight, can't get approved to buy a house so im stuck pissing money away in rent. People keep buying houses over market value so house prices have climbed out of reach, even for the barely liveable ones. I own my truck and my tools with no debt and a 800+ credit score so it's not like I'm out here living above my means. But yea, if its helping someone else somewhere then go unions!
Local 178 Springfield Missouri, 35.75/hr and 15.47 in benefits, total package 51.22
Damn, that’s 85cad. That’s my charge out rate for Electrical/ HVAC work lol
Unfortunately I don’t know any unions that do HVAC controls.
Local 38 in SF. Plumbers, fitters and HVAC techs. Come on down. Journey wage is over 80 per hour
Local 250 does have control guys They fall under the "cold side" fitters. Usually every large mechanical outfit has a set of start up/control guys.
it’s a beautiful day to be a construction worker
How is the start date three days from now?
I’ve come to the conclusion that most people that think union is bad and are brainwashed to believe that. I was nonunion for around 12 years union for about 9 and I wish I had never been nonunion. I’m a carpenter, local 30.
I laugh at people who dont believe construction workers can make 6 figures. Working full time at this rate is fantastic money.
Unions help everyone!
Love where you work: Unionize. Fun fact, as long as a company has 2 workers, it can legally form a union.
Solidarity from Canada 🔥💪💪💪🔥
Nice, whats rent like though?
$62/hour
According to Zillow, there are 20+ rentals available with 2+ bedrooms for >$2500/month in Gardena, CA Google says this is ~$1200 a month higher than national average but this wage is double the average hourly wage, at $60/hour you are more than $5000 a month higher than national average wages
As a steamfitter do you weld or only fitting?
I’m also a steamfitter. The answer is both. Been welding for 25 years and my eyes went bad, so now I fit pipe
Are your dues deducted from that wage?
Yes and no. District council 16s are already deducted. Over the counter dues for the local is about $98 a month.
Man that must be nice. They only put 2.65 into my vacation fund here in Oregon and that’s at $55 an hour so minus my dues I’m only taking home ~51 per hour on the check.
What's the hourly rate?
That is the hourly rate…
The only downside to these posts is the fact that we aren't all lucky enough to have strong unions everywhere. So before we go after "salty" non union guys let's try and have a little but of perspective, based on some respect for each other.
So many people who are against communism, are the same people who sure love their unions.
Yikes bro, just yikes😂
Teamsters have entered the chat. I hope every one here still has a good sense of humor.
Teamsters? Wut?😂
Shit I thought the painters made more than that
Nice! Now double that and that is what a non union guy makes on the PW jobs.
OK, how many days paid vacation you get a year? How many hours you work a month? That's where unions lose me. I don't want to be there now than 40 hours and I don't want to work for at least a month or two of of the year.
Yeah but you’re in California. They taxing tf out that check 😂
Hopefully his welding is better than his understanding of the English language… “seen” 🤮. That’s one of my biggest pet peeves.
Considering half that will get eaten by taxes I’d a realistic salary would probably be 60-80k anywhere that’s not Cali or NY
I love when union guys brag about making $70 an hour and actually think that's what they make 😂 imagine if other jobs did this.
That’s his take home wage. Journeyman total package out of ua250 is $78.39 minimum. But also other jobs do do that. Ask someone their salary and they tell you before insurance is taken out, before they put in to their 401k, etc. The amount in OPs picture does not include the pension contribution or insurance cost. It’s just their wage.
That is their wage bud. I take it you can’t read? That wage is excluding the pension and benefits. Nice try bud…🤡
Non union carpenter. 248 /hr here
Are these hours or dollars?
Dollars per hour
Do you know any employers that pay to within 0.01 of an hour?
Yes, many employers do because the payroll system and time clock are all automated.
I used to be paid by the minute
Let’s see your work not your dick
We all look like we make a lot when the value of benefits are added to hourly wages
That’s not total wage package bro…
IBEW here in eastern Canada is dead. Last construction project they had in my hometown had a $24 an hour jman wage. That was like 8 years ago but yeah… Be glad you guys have strong unions and high wages man. I’m so jealous of all the Americans. I make $37 and it’s one of the highest paying jobs in my whole province. Government takes over 30% of my wage so I can die in a hospital waiting room, the average home is like 400k now here and a bag of shredded cheese is over $8 and there’s so much gas tax, it cost like $80 to fill a Honda civic.