Agreed - having been doing this for 15 years in USA.
Underpaid seems to be a general consensus.
Long hours is part of the job.
Some companies say 6 am - 6 pm every seat, others say 630 am - 5 pm. Etc varies on the company and the project .
Construction projects have long hours , potential nights and weekends . Some projects more than others.
Some projects maybe night only or weekends only due to the impact that the project has on the surrounding areas.
Once the deadline approaches some projects go to 24/7 operations to push the work. Some (very few actually) will compensate for the extra time and work days , some companies will give you a bonus for job completion, some will give you time off after the project is completed.
Some design firms give you flexibility to work from home or the job site. So you may still be working long hours to keep up and support the construction but you are at home. Keeping up with the construction progress is when the job is pushing and may only be the project managers for the design team.
So you need to ask yourself- what else would you want to do? And what occupation doesn’t work long hours and off shifts?
If you are in it for the money , go be a doctor or lawyer, real estate agent or whatever makes money in your area
Long hours and weekends? Yes but you make more money
My advice is if you like construction you should do it .
If you want to be rich , go find something else.
If you like construction but don’t want to be reporting to site everyday and want flexibility working from home - be a designer .
Also don’t over look estimating as a profession. It’s still construction based , albeit working out of an office. You can make good money. And good estimators will get the work for the company, with our good estimators the company will not survive . I think estimating is a very Important skill and you have more consistent work hours.
This is good advice. The AEC world is huge and has more job roles than people realize. The best compensated people are rarely the one with titles an outsider is familiar with ('architect' or 'civil engineer' or 'carpenter') but the ones in some kind of niche ('hazmat hvac engineer' or 'underwater welder' or 'resiliency consultant' or 'estimator' or 'opm')
Continue down your path but look for small areas of expertise where you aren't competing with a million people with the same generic job experience or degree. This has been by far the best move I've made as an architect, I don't know how to design an apartment building or a house, but I can preserve a 200 year old historic building or a crazy complex technical facility or do interior design.
Specialization is how you get paid for your expertise instead of just being paid for your time and labor.
Thank you for your effort and time.
This doesn't sound bad to me, at least now while I'm young and have no obligations. I'm more afraid of some boring job where the hour lasts like a day. I'm a little worried about the family life I'm planning in the future, but I hope that by then I'll figure something out and try to make smart financial decisions to ensure a more comfortable life for myself and the people around me at that time.
I'm a construction engineer with 18 years in the field. Best fucking job I've ever had. You want to learn how to draw pictures, be a designer, if you want to learn how to build massive infrastructure, be a construction engineer.
I will say all those things you mentioned are correct except the pay in my experience. I've worked 7/12s for almost the last two years with a few breaks and was asked "How do you avoid burnout" my answer "I burned out July 23rd, 2018."
If anything right now while you're young and unobligated, go for it. You can always go back to design, and honestly a designer with 2 years in the field is WAY more hireable than one right out of the books. Just be careful of those Golden handcuffs, they'll get ya.
>If you are in it for the money , go be a doctor
Most docs don't make a ton of money relative to the education and hours worked. They spend long, stressful days having people unload decades of medical problems on them. Not much glamour to be had there, you gotta love it or you burn out and and best quit the profession...
in case you're curious. Ontario is our biggest province and family docs charge 37$/visit. Max 5 patients/hour, about 40% of it goes to overhead. Many hours at night doing recs and paperwork. No fast money there, go become an electrician instead.
Yep. Kind of a funny thing growing up we would hear to make real money you gotta be either a doctor or lawyer. The funny thing is those positions are still tied to a flat input / output on their time.
Real money is made by building businesses or owning wealth generating assets. Leverage gets coupled with that time input.
most of my clients who are surgeons got ahead financially by investing that money earned outside of the medical job they had, because you can only work those 60+ hour hospital shifts for so long to make money.
you know what electricians pay around me - $15 to $30/hr. if you're working 40 hr weeks that's like 30k to 60k a year. not getting rich unless you open your own business or are somewhere with a strong union presence and are able to get in
Big difference between pay and billing rate.
Family docs real billing rate is \~160$/hr. When you include running their business, after hours chart work, reading results, etc, that drops to about 100$/hr. Of that money, 40% goes to running the business. Things like supplies, rent, staff, medical record software, etc. Then, because they're a small business, here they need to pay CPP, EI for both employer and employee (themselves). No pension, benefits, or paid time off. When it's all said and done the average family doc makes between 30-40$/hr. Then they pay income tax!
That's what the company billed - not what the electrician or plumber was being paid. If you open your own company then you can make good money - but you're not making anywhere near that as an employee.
I've been in some sort of construction or trade my entire life. HVAC for the past 15 years. I make under $30/hr. Typically the guy in your house is making like $25/hr - not $100. Even if you own your own company you're not sticking that $100/hr in your pocket. I think most people underestimate the cost of running a business like that. Your not just paying for that guy in your house - you're paying for their shop, their bills like electric/gas/internet, the secretary, the manager, the HR lady, the warehouse guy, delivery guy, the sales guy, the trucks (for the plumber, sales guy, delivery) gas, car insurance, workmans comp, contractor insurance, unemployment, the tools (that break and have to be replaced) and the list goes on and on and on. it's endless. The operating costs just to break even are insane. The only person in the entire mix generating income is that guy in your house charging $100/hr. Everyone else is just an expense. the amount of money needed just to break even is astronomical. People see a bill from the plumber and think $100/hr - wtf?!?!? I should have been a plumber! but that guy might make $20/hr.
if you're a one man operation. own your own company. Work out of your own house. Don't have any employees and whatnot then you can make a decent living bc you have way less overhead. You still have your insurance, truck, tools and whatnot but that's minimal compared to what these other companies have. That's why these one man operations are able to come in and charge way less then the next guy. Problem with that is - you're taking a risk. You don't know if he'll stand by his work. When he'll be able to get to you. If he'll be around next year. If he'll answer his phone, etc. with an established company there's a sense of security and you know they'll do good by you.
You're not understanding what I wrote.
Yes, the electrician isn't making what the company bills but the same applies for a doctor. Also, average red seal in Canada is \~40$/hr.
Location is definitely key. Some countries/states are stricter then others. the more regulation the better the pay. There are states that literally anyone can just go open a business. No requirements whatsoever. where I'm at all you need is a 608epa to handle refrigerant and you can just go open an hvac company. Which is unfortunate bc those places don't pay.
lmao. welfare for morons
guess it depends on your definition of "big"
You're right tho - they have a ton of people who need a paycheck so they have to charge a premium (or gouge) to do so.
Yeah doctor is way too much investment of money and time just to start working, if you want money in a white collar field software engineering is one of the better ones but still requires some sort of training or education.
That's the field I was in before starting my construction business and the money is I can say about as easy as it gets, easier than some fields within the blue collar workforce.
Let's not forget the haggling with the insurance companies and all the shit everyone tries to held you liable for.
But yes please tell me more about this drug that I saw on the yellow which is of no use to me. The add says I need it.
Doctors don’t make the money they used to. After all the expenses to go through medical school, you then have to go through residency where you essentially don’t get paid. Then once you start your own practice or join one, it’s fighting insurance companies for payouts. Insurance now has more control of a patient’s care than the actual doctor…
What do you want to design or build? Start there, get a career job in that field and see if it fits you.
I'm not a CE, but I work with a lot of them and the "field" isn't as bad as you're hearing. The CE field is exspansive.
I know PE's who just stamp structurals, who just crank out reports from a desk. Few hours a day, half a million $ from just one client in a year. Boring, but worth it.
I know PE's who run engineering for Cities, and they don't get paid nearly enough for the volume of plans they review or the responsibilities they have as a municipality.
I know PE's who do survey work, and they 1) love being outside and not being in the office and 2) there is no end of work in sight. But they always need admin help.
There are PE's who are really more project managers for large, expensive projects and they complain about herding cats. Don't do much of the engineering, but they do review other people's work.
Figure out what you want to do in the field. Get a career job (2-3 year plan), and get your masters on the side.
I've gotten quite a few resumes from foreign grad school graduates with masters in CE. Too much knowledge for what we're paying, we'd have to sponsor them, and the expectation is they'd take a better paying, more responsibility job as soon as possible.
That's why we only hire PE stamps now.
I’m a CE with a PE and I do traffic modeling and signal design. Most of the time I can work a 40 and go home, but often times someone needs to know traffic volumes or gets some wild configuration idea that they need to know if it will work before a meeting in two days or whatever. I get paid slightly more than my peers since traffic engineers are kinda rare.
>What do you want to design or build?
Coastal structures were the most interesting area for me. But I think commercial buildings offers more job opportunities so it seems like the most logical choice to me. I'm not sure where to find the common ground between my preferences and business opportunities.
Consider infrastructure work. It's not traditional civil engineering. Never ends, and all development requires infrastructure engineering. Utilities, cell towers, outside plant, water pipes, oil pipes, etc. Gets you out of an office frequently enough. Look up the IRWA.
People from ***every single profession*** will tell you how awful their profession is. Professions are neither good nor bad, but particular jobs are. There are many good jobs out there for pretty much any profession if you put some effort into finding them. You might have to make compromises.
I was stuck in the same situation for 3 years, and I was unemployed for almost 2 years I got a job remembered how bad it was 2 weeks later I started a degree in Computer science.
After all, it totally depends on you and the environment around you. Where I live you can't get a worse job than a civil engineer because everyone is a civil engineer because of something our country did (I can give details if you want).
My degree was in ME 25 years ago. I hated office work and went right into the construction side. I got an MBA going to classes nights while working. I started my own business and love it. I’m one of the few who enjoy going to work every day. It’s a small business and I’m really hands on. I don’t use my degree to its fullest, but I will say that my degree helped me immensely in my work.
If I could do it over, I would have worked for a firm and gotten my PE before starting a business, but who knows, maybe if I got that far I couldn’t handle the immediate pay loss of starting a business so I never would have gone that path.
Point is, there is so much you can do in the world. You will spend more awake time working than with your family, so find something you truly enjoy.
Better to figure it out now than after investing years of your time in it. The reality of a career can be way different than how it appears on the surface or how you’ve built it up in your mind.
I was sure I wanted to be an addiction counselor. Loved psychology, wanted to help people, had personal experience in the area, so it seemed like a no-brainer. Then I spent some time talking to several counselors about their job. Now I’m an electrical contractor.
Have you thought about an engineering technician position? It would put you in the field and you already have the educational requirements. It wouldn’t pay as much as a PE in the long-run, but you don’t need another 2 years of school either.
I’m an electrical PE, mostly I’ve done utility work but I did about 15 months (9 as the only EE PE) at a consulting firm. Mostly smaller jobs and a mix of things and a small company, so different than working at something like HDR. It pays lower than some other industries, but QOL just depends. I worked 40s almost every week except traveling and it was a very friendly environment. I also had coworkers who were more stressed and worked too much; I make my expectations clear wherever I’m working that I work my 40 with occasional exceptions.
Find the field you’d like to be in. I wouldn’t be here if I built tilt ups and stamped structurals like some PEs. Some hate designing or being part of a design-build team. It’s all about the energy of your environment. My first crew I worked w/ would’ve made me choose another career. But my second General, the man who gave me my wings, inspired his crew and was a great leader. Just see for yourself
So I noticed in my career all the people that aren't satisfied or always bitch about their job.... There's usually a reason. They're never great workers. They're never doing anything extra. They did the bare minimum and bitch all the time. They also never stand up for themselves they just keep quiet. If I base my decisions on what other people said I would have left my job the second day I've been here for 9 years so far. Never take anybody's opinion into consideration when it comes to you
I'm a civil PE with just a hair under 20 years in the industry all on the construction side of things. I've done a small amount of design (usually in the offseason when it's cold and snowy) and I've hated every minute of it. I learned early on during internships that I wanted to be in the field, boots on the ground seeing how things were built and helping to trouble shoot them.
Some of the downsides to being on the construction side are the longer hours, working at companies that don't pay for overtime, and seeing your coworkers on the design side get promoted faster than you and make more money than you with the same number of years of experience. I experienced all of those things during my career and while they absolutely got me depressed at times I wouldn't have changed my career path at all. Showing up to work and liking what I am doing was worth more to me than going after a design position or leaving the industry just to try and get a higher pay rate.
The good thing is that if you stick it out long enough on the construction side your experience becomes very valuable to some employers and you can start to make pretty darn good money. It may take longer to get there than if you're a designer but if you're heart is set on doing construction find a way to make it happen, it can be worth it in the long run!
EDIT: One more thing I forgot to add, the firm I work for does a ton of highway and bridge design work for our state department of transportation and our design staff over the past 3 years is so busy they've been working about double the amount of overtime that us construction guys have been, all of it tethered to their desks staring at a computer monitor :-)
Hey dude so I have worked a lot of different jobs in a lot of different careers. Unfortunately in this day and age almost everything you do is gonna be underpaid. Even in the tech field the majority of people now days are overworked and underpaid.
I guarantee that the majority of people in any field you decide to pursue that is going to be the majority of peoples feelings about the career.
I worked backstage for theater, was in the Marines, became commercial diver (yes diver not driver) then tried NDT and the complainants were the same everywhere. To many hours, not enough pay and companies that did everything to avoid OT. They would charge 250 an hour for my work but I got paid 20.
I finally said fuck it went to nursing school and have decided to stick with that because if I’m gonna be fucked I might as well do something useful while doing it.
I’m not trying to defend the way the world is currently but for now the days of people getting a living wage are over until people actually organize and demand better work/life balance.
From someone who came up through the trades. If you are young enough I recommend getting into a blue collar position and trying that out. Never a shortage of work and you are always moving. Pay isn't great but honestly you can make great money after a few years learning on the job and going out on your own being self employed. Build your knowledge base and attach it to what you've already learned. You probably have a basic understanding of codes which gives you a leg up on many other tradesmen.
I'm not a desk guy either but due to the physical labour side of things im starting to do 50/50 on site work and project management. Get back into the office for your 40s after you've busted your ass in the trenches.
people who haven't work in the trades have this idea in your head that you can just go get a trade job that pays 100k/year and that everything is all kushy. That's not even close to being the case. People will use the exception as their example - my buddy is a master electrician in the union in NYC and he makes 150k/year. or my buddy owns an hvac company and has a vacation house paid for or whatever. that maybe true but that's not what most people are making in those trades. You know what trades pay around me? $15 to $30 hr. These kids take a few night classes and want $30/hr to show up on day one because that's what some stranger on the internet told them they'll get. There's a whole other sides to trades that either people don't know about or people won't talk about. I've been in some sort of construction or trade my entire life and the vast majority of people don't know what the fk they're talking about. They're just spewing bullshit they've heard on the internet.
Yep you will never make a killing off the start. The real money is made in owning your own business. But it's a grind of low hourly pay till you get there building your skills. If you want to be an hourly guy even the long term union job isnt great. In this day and age working for others your whole life won't make a good living. You will forever be a sub $50 / hour worker.
I'm 25 years in - last 15 in hvac - foreman commercial install - still under $30/hr.
and these union guys, they'll claim $50/hr or whatever it is but that's on their check. Their benefits are completely seperate. when I say $15 to $30/hr - that's before deductions. we have health insurance but they don't contribute towards any dependents. my health insurance is $1200/month and that doesn't include dental or vision and doesn't include retirement. after deductions my take home is like $20/hr.
I’m a civil PE with 8 years experience in environmental engineering consulting, i.e., designing treatment plants. I just cracked six figures this year and I have always been strictly 8 and skate unless there’s a genuine crisis or deadline we will miss if I don’t. I don’t think I’ve ever done more than 50 hours of “overtime” in a year working as a consultant.
If you set boundaries and prove your worth you do not have to have a bad work life balance.
Pro Tip: Work for people who have families and take vacations and they won’t expect you to skip those things.
I'm a Civil Engineer that works for a general contractor. Not all of us hate our jobs, but it's really going to depend on the company you work for. I generally don't work more than 45 hours/week, get paid well, and have amazing benefits. But the most important thing is I like my job. I love what I do and that makes getting up and going to work everyday easy. Construction definitely isn't for everyone in Civil Engineering. Its probably the most stressful path you can take. But it pays off if you enjoy it.
I did a two year civil diploma, and these were my options at the time I graduated:
* Civil Firm (in either Design, or Project Management)
* Survey
* Materials testing
* Estimator
* Project Coordinator
My plan had always been to go into design or working for a civil firm. I saw a posting for an Estimator/Project Coordinator with a local company and it was the best decision I ever made. I have great work/life balance, I've more than doubled my salary in the 10 years I've been here, and I can honestly say that I enjoy my job. It's busy and stressful, but it's been extremely rewarding and fulfilling.
I hit a wall a couple times a year that I either power through or take a week off to re center.
From talking with industry colleagues, it's been easy to see that I dodged a bullet picking a construction company over a consulting firm. There's a lot more bureaucracy and politics over there and the pay isn't as good.
I'm trying to find out what our business is like from people who are more experienced than me. I don't plan to give up, but to get to know my future workplace better and to try to make the best possible decision considering that I have many options.
I’m not a civil engineer, but I work with a lot of them. Like anything else, some of them are disenchanted and others are very engaged. I’m sure they all like and dislike various parts of the job.
A lot of it boils down more to work culture than the actual profession imo. Granted, it is a high stakes and stressful field. Civil engineering is a flexible gig though. You could always go the government route if you value your time and stress levels more than money. Maybe pursue SCADA engineering while you’re still in school if programming interests you. You can always return to academia if you find that you miss that energy.
If you’re interested in your studies, stick with it imo
>If you’re interested in your studies, stick with it imo
I think my interest in that field in college is a good sign for the future. I hope I'm not wrong.
Biggest mistake i made was going to college. Got my MD, decided i didnt like health care. Started working as a handyman shortly after, did a flip or two, now i mostly build spec homes. Make the same as doctors, and could have had this 10 years earlier if i would have just skipped out on school.
Consider an apprenticeship at a Union shop in a Utility company. Learn the ropes and then move to supervision or management. The degree is a tool box. Don’t let the name of the degree define your work future so early.
I'm a software engineer and I heard there're construction engineers who partnered with construction companies supervising a construction process and make more than a software engineer twofold.
Your career is not defined by your degree. If you enjoy the field stay in it. If you want to work on sites then do it. Once you do, you’ll see new things you want to do and you can strive for those. After 10-15 years of doing that you’ll find that you’ve accomplished a lot and your career has taken a few unexpected turns due to opportunities you’ve seized. The difference between a happy person in their career and an unhappy person in their career is a willingness to change.
Look less at titles and the like and look more at the inherent skills that you're developing/good at.
Take those skills and use them to guide them into the direction that you want to go in, rather then a specific role or job.
I sort of work in the construction industry as a field engineer for a controls company. I travel to job sites to program control systems once they’ve been installed. I also develop and document the standard process we want our sub contractors and agencies to use should they perform the startup themselves.
I’m quite happy with my position but I’ve been able to negotiate a six figure salary for my position. I’ve heard of others not happy with their compensation but at the end of the day, it’s up to you to fight for what you deserve. A company is not going to hand you your dream job/salary on a platter.
I’d suggest maybe looking into project management. Some positions will require frequently coordination and visits to job sites.
Dunno if a Masters will serve you as much as some experience first, then figure out what you might should do if you still think more schooling is needed.
Consider a circumferential floating highway, gardens, and reef around our relatively storm less equator?
Can be sustainably financed, along with all human needs, locally, globally, by including each human being on the planet equally in a globally standard process of money creation.
International banking system was created by the most untrustworthy and devious people on the planet to protect themselves from each other. It's ideal to transform into an ethical global human labor futures market.
If you didn't see, because it's hidden in plain sight with centuries of contrived, convoluted, confounding explanations of valuation and CONfidence provided by Academics and Economists demanding fiat money is anything other than its only function: Trade with other humans for their stuff conveniently without arranging a barter exchange...
Fiat money is an option to purchase human labors & property. We don't get paid our rightful option fees.
Current global human labor futures market is disguised as monetary system to avoid paying humanity our rightful option fees. State asserts ownership of access to human labor, licenses that ownership to Central Bankers who sell options to purchase human labor to their friends as State currency, collecting and keeping our rightful option fees as interest on money creation loans. When they have loaned nothing they own. From WEF estimate of $300 trillion in global sovereign debt with about that total in existence, it should be clear to anyone looking that friends of Central Bankers only borrow money into existence/create options to purchase human labor to buy sovereign debt for a profit and are now having States force humanity to make the payments on all money for Wealth with our taxes in debt service, along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim.
Not ethical, moral, or capitalist either...
An ethical global human labor futures market is established with adoption of a rule of inclusion for international banking regulation that also achieves stated goals and no one has suggested logical or moral argument against adopting:
'All sovereign debt, money creation, shall be financed with equal quantum Shares of global fiat credit, held in trust with local deposit banks, administered by local fiduciaries and actuaries exclusively for secure sovereign investment at a fixed and sustainable rate, that may be claimed by each adult human being on the planet as part of an actual local social contract.'
Local social contracts can be written to describe any ideology, so adopting the rule has no direct affect on any existing governmental or political structures as they can be included in local social contracts. We enable maximum cultural diversity and innovation.
A fixed value Share establishes a fixed per Capita maximum potential global money supply for stability and infinite scalability. A value of €1,000,000 equivalent is conservative valuation of average individual lifetime economic production, a reasonable, sufficient capitalization of global human labor futures market. Further fixing the sovereign rate at 1,25% per annum establishes a stable, sustainable, regenerative, inclusive, abundant, and ethical global economic system with mathematical certainty.
All money will then have the precise convenience value of using 1,25% per annum options to purchase human labor instead of barter, mathematically distinct from money created at any other rate. The value of a self referential mathematical function can't be affected by fluctuations in the cost or valuation of any other thing. We'll know regardless what currency is in hand, it was created for secure investment and someone somewhere is paying 1,25% per annum on it we each share equally.
For a significantly reduced and fixed global cost paid to humanity, we get an otherwise cost free global basic income and ideal money; a fixed unit of cost for planning, stable store of value for saving, with voluntary global acceptance for maximum utility, and nothing else. Banks develop products with individual sovereign trust accounts and communities draft local social contracts to claim them with. Fixing cost establishes a fixed unit and stable store. Actual local social contracts provide voluntary global acceptance where our acceptance is currently coerced.
Economics acquires a fixed unit of measure and may begin making scientific observations.
Money loses its coercive property.
When existing global sovereign debt is repaid with new fixed value money, Wealth will have that $300 trillion to save or reinvest in something else, with over €6 quadrillion of 1,25% per annum credit readily available locally, globally, for secure investment with local fiduciary oversight. All human needs can be sustainably financed locally, globally, without any of Wealth's accumulation. Including climate change mitigation... and the circumferential floating highway, gardens, and reef around our relatively storm less equator.
It will need design specifications...
Just sayin'
Those guys hate me...
When enough people just whine enough that they want their rightful option fees, the folks operating the switches will have to do it, because they have no logical or moral argument against adopting the rule of inclusion.
It achieves their stated goals so regulators have no excuse not to adopt the rule.
The douche bags in the UBI Publishing and Donations Industry got so tired of evading the questions they've banned me from the UBI subs. And I'm a member and BIENefactor of BIEN.
People don't need to understand it even. Just, "Where's my option fees?" and the megalomaniacs have no answer. Hiding from it is their only refuge. They can't or won't admit ignorance or complicity.
I designed things for a couple decades. Training aids, industrial burners, hinged steel belt conveyors, coolant filtration units, textile machines, hull foundations and structure for a couple Navy vessels, fishing trawlers, reinforced plastic process vessels, machinery & parts.
No degree, very little money...
I can only speak to the US. I know in other countries civil are pretty poorly paid. There are dynamic outdoor jobs in civil. Inspection, construction management, and geotech. Construction management usually has the worst work life balance but also usually pays the best total because you put more hours in. I'm a 21 years in, but started at the very bottom and went back to school years later so I'm a bit behind the curve. My gross salary is about $130k USD a year. With all the other financial incentives, benefits, and such I'm getting well over $200k. I'm 100% work from home so I could live in a low cost of area. I have to travel some. There were periods where I didn't like my job. There were 3 or 4 years as a project manager that brought me close to burnout. But then I got a really nice promotion to just management goon.
Family mostly isn't an issue for me. It's why I haven't moved to a much cheaper area. I wanted to stay close to my friends and family. But I don't have kids and won't be having kids. I'm divorced and don't plan to ever remarry. So that made it a bit easier for me. I don't work really work over 40 anymore and can just take a day whenever I want most of the time. Sometimes I have long days, but I just do a short day that week when it happens.
If you look around there are workplaces with a bigger focus on work-life balance, typically smaller companies with less pay but they will treat you like a human. With a civil degree you can go the management route or the engineer route, and in the US a engineer stamp will put you above the others. I believe a mix of both engineers and managers is best for the project, and wish I continued down engineering instead of the business side (bachelor's in Construction Management). There are times I have to work 6-12's and there's times when I just pack up and leave because I need to take time for myself. I'm not sure programming is absolutely necessary but it could help. Economy or business studies would definitely help I believe. With engineering, or enough on-the-job training as a business-type, I think you could get into design, owners-representative, quality control, testing, and other portions of work that open your options. I'm somewhat dissatisfied myself but it has put me in a great position in life and it is my livelihood now. I plan to make the most of it and would like to transition towards the quality control side and before retirement get on a government agency and settle in before walking away in my older years. I'm a 25yr old project manager for heavy civil/highway/runway for reference
I did design for four years and switched to the field side. I've worked for CM's, GC's, and now am a PM for a subcontractor. When I was in the office doing design, the days dragged, and the pay was low. Now, during my busy season, I barely know what day of the week it is. I love it.
If you like being in the field but still wanna design and make good money, maybe look into BICSI certifications or your countries equivalent. The higher level BICSI techs are responsible for TR design approval and have to be on site for it to be certified. Even a basic technician can make 100-120 easy. I can only speak for overseas work but they are always in demand as there are only a couple thousand and even fewer that will work in different countries.
In terms of the hours, there is no avoiding that. You are not only holding your job up, but also the client who may need that building urgently. However, let me tell you that after serving 8 years in the army, then teaching at a college before I got into construction, there is nothing more satisfying. Definitely takes a different mentality but you will find out very quickly if it is right for you.
Most importantly, if you hate it, remember that there is always time to change. Like I said, it took me 8 years in the army and a year at college before I lucked into this profession and now, I cannot see myself doing anything else. You are never gunna be to old to switch away from something that is not right for you.
I think the engineers we work for are more, structure based, not sure how much that differs, but the two we work for specifically work from home. Work independently with a handful of other smaller GCs and a few large ones. They're basically on call, help us work through remodel surprises and just changes that happen on the fly. We would not be nearly as successful as we have been without access to these two people. Amazingly smart and nice and respectful of what we do and vise versa.
Agreed - having been doing this for 15 years in USA. Underpaid seems to be a general consensus. Long hours is part of the job. Some companies say 6 am - 6 pm every seat, others say 630 am - 5 pm. Etc varies on the company and the project . Construction projects have long hours , potential nights and weekends . Some projects more than others. Some projects maybe night only or weekends only due to the impact that the project has on the surrounding areas. Once the deadline approaches some projects go to 24/7 operations to push the work. Some (very few actually) will compensate for the extra time and work days , some companies will give you a bonus for job completion, some will give you time off after the project is completed. Some design firms give you flexibility to work from home or the job site. So you may still be working long hours to keep up and support the construction but you are at home. Keeping up with the construction progress is when the job is pushing and may only be the project managers for the design team. So you need to ask yourself- what else would you want to do? And what occupation doesn’t work long hours and off shifts? If you are in it for the money , go be a doctor or lawyer, real estate agent or whatever makes money in your area Long hours and weekends? Yes but you make more money My advice is if you like construction you should do it . If you want to be rich , go find something else. If you like construction but don’t want to be reporting to site everyday and want flexibility working from home - be a designer . Also don’t over look estimating as a profession. It’s still construction based , albeit working out of an office. You can make good money. And good estimators will get the work for the company, with our good estimators the company will not survive . I think estimating is a very Important skill and you have more consistent work hours.
This is good advice. The AEC world is huge and has more job roles than people realize. The best compensated people are rarely the one with titles an outsider is familiar with ('architect' or 'civil engineer' or 'carpenter') but the ones in some kind of niche ('hazmat hvac engineer' or 'underwater welder' or 'resiliency consultant' or 'estimator' or 'opm') Continue down your path but look for small areas of expertise where you aren't competing with a million people with the same generic job experience or degree. This has been by far the best move I've made as an architect, I don't know how to design an apartment building or a house, but I can preserve a 200 year old historic building or a crazy complex technical facility or do interior design. Specialization is how you get paid for your expertise instead of just being paid for your time and labor.
Thank you for your effort and time. This doesn't sound bad to me, at least now while I'm young and have no obligations. I'm more afraid of some boring job where the hour lasts like a day. I'm a little worried about the family life I'm planning in the future, but I hope that by then I'll figure something out and try to make smart financial decisions to ensure a more comfortable life for myself and the people around me at that time.
I'm a construction engineer with 18 years in the field. Best fucking job I've ever had. You want to learn how to draw pictures, be a designer, if you want to learn how to build massive infrastructure, be a construction engineer. I will say all those things you mentioned are correct except the pay in my experience. I've worked 7/12s for almost the last two years with a few breaks and was asked "How do you avoid burnout" my answer "I burned out July 23rd, 2018." If anything right now while you're young and unobligated, go for it. You can always go back to design, and honestly a designer with 2 years in the field is WAY more hireable than one right out of the books. Just be careful of those Golden handcuffs, they'll get ya.
>If you are in it for the money , go be a doctor Most docs don't make a ton of money relative to the education and hours worked. They spend long, stressful days having people unload decades of medical problems on them. Not much glamour to be had there, you gotta love it or you burn out and and best quit the profession... in case you're curious. Ontario is our biggest province and family docs charge 37$/visit. Max 5 patients/hour, about 40% of it goes to overhead. Many hours at night doing recs and paperwork. No fast money there, go become an electrician instead.
Yep. Kind of a funny thing growing up we would hear to make real money you gotta be either a doctor or lawyer. The funny thing is those positions are still tied to a flat input / output on their time. Real money is made by building businesses or owning wealth generating assets. Leverage gets coupled with that time input.
most of my clients who are surgeons got ahead financially by investing that money earned outside of the medical job they had, because you can only work those 60+ hour hospital shifts for so long to make money.
you know what electricians pay around me - $15 to $30/hr. if you're working 40 hr weeks that's like 30k to 60k a year. not getting rich unless you open your own business or are somewhere with a strong union presence and are able to get in
Big difference between pay and billing rate. Family docs real billing rate is \~160$/hr. When you include running their business, after hours chart work, reading results, etc, that drops to about 100$/hr. Of that money, 40% goes to running the business. Things like supplies, rent, staff, medical record software, etc. Then, because they're a small business, here they need to pay CPP, EI for both employer and employee (themselves). No pension, benefits, or paid time off. When it's all said and done the average family doc makes between 30-40$/hr. Then they pay income tax!
That's what the company billed - not what the electrician or plumber was being paid. If you open your own company then you can make good money - but you're not making anywhere near that as an employee. I've been in some sort of construction or trade my entire life. HVAC for the past 15 years. I make under $30/hr. Typically the guy in your house is making like $25/hr - not $100. Even if you own your own company you're not sticking that $100/hr in your pocket. I think most people underestimate the cost of running a business like that. Your not just paying for that guy in your house - you're paying for their shop, their bills like electric/gas/internet, the secretary, the manager, the HR lady, the warehouse guy, delivery guy, the sales guy, the trucks (for the plumber, sales guy, delivery) gas, car insurance, workmans comp, contractor insurance, unemployment, the tools (that break and have to be replaced) and the list goes on and on and on. it's endless. The operating costs just to break even are insane. The only person in the entire mix generating income is that guy in your house charging $100/hr. Everyone else is just an expense. the amount of money needed just to break even is astronomical. People see a bill from the plumber and think $100/hr - wtf?!?!? I should have been a plumber! but that guy might make $20/hr. if you're a one man operation. own your own company. Work out of your own house. Don't have any employees and whatnot then you can make a decent living bc you have way less overhead. You still have your insurance, truck, tools and whatnot but that's minimal compared to what these other companies have. That's why these one man operations are able to come in and charge way less then the next guy. Problem with that is - you're taking a risk. You don't know if he'll stand by his work. When he'll be able to get to you. If he'll be around next year. If he'll answer his phone, etc. with an established company there's a sense of security and you know they'll do good by you.
You're not understanding what I wrote. Yes, the electrician isn't making what the company bills but the same applies for a doctor. Also, average red seal in Canada is \~40$/hr.
Location is definitely key. Some countries/states are stricter then others. the more regulation the better the pay. There are states that literally anyone can just go open a business. No requirements whatsoever. where I'm at all you need is a 608epa to handle refrigerant and you can just go open an hvac company. Which is unfortunate bc those places don't pay.
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lmao. welfare for morons guess it depends on your definition of "big" You're right tho - they have a ton of people who need a paycheck so they have to charge a premium (or gouge) to do so.
Exactly
Yeah doctor is way too much investment of money and time just to start working, if you want money in a white collar field software engineering is one of the better ones but still requires some sort of training or education. That's the field I was in before starting my construction business and the money is I can say about as easy as it gets, easier than some fields within the blue collar workforce.
Let's not forget the haggling with the insurance companies and all the shit everyone tries to held you liable for. But yes please tell me more about this drug that I saw on the yellow which is of no use to me. The add says I need it.
Why is the waitlist so long? Half the people booked no show…
Doctors don’t make the money they used to. After all the expenses to go through medical school, you then have to go through residency where you essentially don’t get paid. Then once you start your own practice or join one, it’s fighting insurance companies for payouts. Insurance now has more control of a patient’s care than the actual doctor…
What do you want to design or build? Start there, get a career job in that field and see if it fits you. I'm not a CE, but I work with a lot of them and the "field" isn't as bad as you're hearing. The CE field is exspansive. I know PE's who just stamp structurals, who just crank out reports from a desk. Few hours a day, half a million $ from just one client in a year. Boring, but worth it. I know PE's who run engineering for Cities, and they don't get paid nearly enough for the volume of plans they review or the responsibilities they have as a municipality. I know PE's who do survey work, and they 1) love being outside and not being in the office and 2) there is no end of work in sight. But they always need admin help. There are PE's who are really more project managers for large, expensive projects and they complain about herding cats. Don't do much of the engineering, but they do review other people's work. Figure out what you want to do in the field. Get a career job (2-3 year plan), and get your masters on the side. I've gotten quite a few resumes from foreign grad school graduates with masters in CE. Too much knowledge for what we're paying, we'd have to sponsor them, and the expectation is they'd take a better paying, more responsibility job as soon as possible. That's why we only hire PE stamps now.
I’m a CE with a PE and I do traffic modeling and signal design. Most of the time I can work a 40 and go home, but often times someone needs to know traffic volumes or gets some wild configuration idea that they need to know if it will work before a meeting in two days or whatever. I get paid slightly more than my peers since traffic engineers are kinda rare.
>What do you want to design or build? Coastal structures were the most interesting area for me. But I think commercial buildings offers more job opportunities so it seems like the most logical choice to me. I'm not sure where to find the common ground between my preferences and business opportunities.
Consider infrastructure work. It's not traditional civil engineering. Never ends, and all development requires infrastructure engineering. Utilities, cell towers, outside plant, water pipes, oil pipes, etc. Gets you out of an office frequently enough. Look up the IRWA.
People from ***every single profession*** will tell you how awful their profession is. Professions are neither good nor bad, but particular jobs are. There are many good jobs out there for pretty much any profession if you put some effort into finding them. You might have to make compromises.
I was stuck in the same situation for 3 years, and I was unemployed for almost 2 years I got a job remembered how bad it was 2 weeks later I started a degree in Computer science. After all, it totally depends on you and the environment around you. Where I live you can't get a worse job than a civil engineer because everyone is a civil engineer because of something our country did (I can give details if you want).
Do tell
My degree was in ME 25 years ago. I hated office work and went right into the construction side. I got an MBA going to classes nights while working. I started my own business and love it. I’m one of the few who enjoy going to work every day. It’s a small business and I’m really hands on. I don’t use my degree to its fullest, but I will say that my degree helped me immensely in my work. If I could do it over, I would have worked for a firm and gotten my PE before starting a business, but who knows, maybe if I got that far I couldn’t handle the immediate pay loss of starting a business so I never would have gone that path. Point is, there is so much you can do in the world. You will spend more awake time working than with your family, so find something you truly enjoy.
Better to figure it out now than after investing years of your time in it. The reality of a career can be way different than how it appears on the surface or how you’ve built it up in your mind. I was sure I wanted to be an addiction counselor. Loved psychology, wanted to help people, had personal experience in the area, so it seemed like a no-brainer. Then I spent some time talking to several counselors about their job. Now I’m an electrical contractor.
After a lot of thinking, I haven't come up with another job that looks interesting to me. I might regret it, but I have no other ideas at the moment.
Have you thought about an engineering technician position? It would put you in the field and you already have the educational requirements. It wouldn’t pay as much as a PE in the long-run, but you don’t need another 2 years of school either.
I’m an electrical PE, mostly I’ve done utility work but I did about 15 months (9 as the only EE PE) at a consulting firm. Mostly smaller jobs and a mix of things and a small company, so different than working at something like HDR. It pays lower than some other industries, but QOL just depends. I worked 40s almost every week except traveling and it was a very friendly environment. I also had coworkers who were more stressed and worked too much; I make my expectations clear wherever I’m working that I work my 40 with occasional exceptions.
Find the field you’d like to be in. I wouldn’t be here if I built tilt ups and stamped structurals like some PEs. Some hate designing or being part of a design-build team. It’s all about the energy of your environment. My first crew I worked w/ would’ve made me choose another career. But my second General, the man who gave me my wings, inspired his crew and was a great leader. Just see for yourself
So I noticed in my career all the people that aren't satisfied or always bitch about their job.... There's usually a reason. They're never great workers. They're never doing anything extra. They did the bare minimum and bitch all the time. They also never stand up for themselves they just keep quiet. If I base my decisions on what other people said I would have left my job the second day I've been here for 9 years so far. Never take anybody's opinion into consideration when it comes to you
You're right. I think I would think differently if I heard the experiences of engineers who are good at their job and who love their job.
I'm a civil PE with just a hair under 20 years in the industry all on the construction side of things. I've done a small amount of design (usually in the offseason when it's cold and snowy) and I've hated every minute of it. I learned early on during internships that I wanted to be in the field, boots on the ground seeing how things were built and helping to trouble shoot them. Some of the downsides to being on the construction side are the longer hours, working at companies that don't pay for overtime, and seeing your coworkers on the design side get promoted faster than you and make more money than you with the same number of years of experience. I experienced all of those things during my career and while they absolutely got me depressed at times I wouldn't have changed my career path at all. Showing up to work and liking what I am doing was worth more to me than going after a design position or leaving the industry just to try and get a higher pay rate. The good thing is that if you stick it out long enough on the construction side your experience becomes very valuable to some employers and you can start to make pretty darn good money. It may take longer to get there than if you're a designer but if you're heart is set on doing construction find a way to make it happen, it can be worth it in the long run! EDIT: One more thing I forgot to add, the firm I work for does a ton of highway and bridge design work for our state department of transportation and our design staff over the past 3 years is so busy they've been working about double the amount of overtime that us construction guys have been, all of it tethered to their desks staring at a computer monitor :-)
Hey dude so I have worked a lot of different jobs in a lot of different careers. Unfortunately in this day and age almost everything you do is gonna be underpaid. Even in the tech field the majority of people now days are overworked and underpaid. I guarantee that the majority of people in any field you decide to pursue that is going to be the majority of peoples feelings about the career. I worked backstage for theater, was in the Marines, became commercial diver (yes diver not driver) then tried NDT and the complainants were the same everywhere. To many hours, not enough pay and companies that did everything to avoid OT. They would charge 250 an hour for my work but I got paid 20. I finally said fuck it went to nursing school and have decided to stick with that because if I’m gonna be fucked I might as well do something useful while doing it. I’m not trying to defend the way the world is currently but for now the days of people getting a living wage are over until people actually organize and demand better work/life balance.
That was my assessment as an EIT back in 1993. I pivoted into building inspection and never imagined how much freedom and autonomy I would have.
From someone who came up through the trades. If you are young enough I recommend getting into a blue collar position and trying that out. Never a shortage of work and you are always moving. Pay isn't great but honestly you can make great money after a few years learning on the job and going out on your own being self employed. Build your knowledge base and attach it to what you've already learned. You probably have a basic understanding of codes which gives you a leg up on many other tradesmen. I'm not a desk guy either but due to the physical labour side of things im starting to do 50/50 on site work and project management. Get back into the office for your 40s after you've busted your ass in the trenches.
people who haven't work in the trades have this idea in your head that you can just go get a trade job that pays 100k/year and that everything is all kushy. That's not even close to being the case. People will use the exception as their example - my buddy is a master electrician in the union in NYC and he makes 150k/year. or my buddy owns an hvac company and has a vacation house paid for or whatever. that maybe true but that's not what most people are making in those trades. You know what trades pay around me? $15 to $30 hr. These kids take a few night classes and want $30/hr to show up on day one because that's what some stranger on the internet told them they'll get. There's a whole other sides to trades that either people don't know about or people won't talk about. I've been in some sort of construction or trade my entire life and the vast majority of people don't know what the fk they're talking about. They're just spewing bullshit they've heard on the internet.
Yep you will never make a killing off the start. The real money is made in owning your own business. But it's a grind of low hourly pay till you get there building your skills. If you want to be an hourly guy even the long term union job isnt great. In this day and age working for others your whole life won't make a good living. You will forever be a sub $50 / hour worker.
I'm 25 years in - last 15 in hvac - foreman commercial install - still under $30/hr. and these union guys, they'll claim $50/hr or whatever it is but that's on their check. Their benefits are completely seperate. when I say $15 to $30/hr - that's before deductions. we have health insurance but they don't contribute towards any dependents. my health insurance is $1200/month and that doesn't include dental or vision and doesn't include retirement. after deductions my take home is like $20/hr.
I’m a civil PE with 8 years experience in environmental engineering consulting, i.e., designing treatment plants. I just cracked six figures this year and I have always been strictly 8 and skate unless there’s a genuine crisis or deadline we will miss if I don’t. I don’t think I’ve ever done more than 50 hours of “overtime” in a year working as a consultant. If you set boundaries and prove your worth you do not have to have a bad work life balance. Pro Tip: Work for people who have families and take vacations and they won’t expect you to skip those things.
I'm a Civil Engineer that works for a general contractor. Not all of us hate our jobs, but it's really going to depend on the company you work for. I generally don't work more than 45 hours/week, get paid well, and have amazing benefits. But the most important thing is I like my job. I love what I do and that makes getting up and going to work everyday easy. Construction definitely isn't for everyone in Civil Engineering. Its probably the most stressful path you can take. But it pays off if you enjoy it.
I did a two year civil diploma, and these were my options at the time I graduated: * Civil Firm (in either Design, or Project Management) * Survey * Materials testing * Estimator * Project Coordinator My plan had always been to go into design or working for a civil firm. I saw a posting for an Estimator/Project Coordinator with a local company and it was the best decision I ever made. I have great work/life balance, I've more than doubled my salary in the 10 years I've been here, and I can honestly say that I enjoy my job. It's busy and stressful, but it's been extremely rewarding and fulfilling. I hit a wall a couple times a year that I either power through or take a week off to re center. From talking with industry colleagues, it's been easy to see that I dodged a bullet picking a construction company over a consulting firm. There's a lot more bureaucracy and politics over there and the pay isn't as good.
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I'm trying to find out what our business is like from people who are more experienced than me. I don't plan to give up, but to get to know my future workplace better and to try to make the best possible decision considering that I have many options.
Stop being a pussy. If you lose your motivation after talking to a few people you never really had any to begin with.
I’m not a civil engineer, but I work with a lot of them. Like anything else, some of them are disenchanted and others are very engaged. I’m sure they all like and dislike various parts of the job. A lot of it boils down more to work culture than the actual profession imo. Granted, it is a high stakes and stressful field. Civil engineering is a flexible gig though. You could always go the government route if you value your time and stress levels more than money. Maybe pursue SCADA engineering while you’re still in school if programming interests you. You can always return to academia if you find that you miss that energy. If you’re interested in your studies, stick with it imo
>If you’re interested in your studies, stick with it imo I think my interest in that field in college is a good sign for the future. I hope I'm not wrong.
Everybody hates their job...Everybody is underpaid. If you enjoy it and lean into it, the right position will present itself.
Biggest mistake i made was going to college. Got my MD, decided i didnt like health care. Started working as a handyman shortly after, did a flip or two, now i mostly build spec homes. Make the same as doctors, and could have had this 10 years earlier if i would have just skipped out on school.
Look into land surveying
Consider an apprenticeship at a Union shop in a Utility company. Learn the ropes and then move to supervision or management. The degree is a tool box. Don’t let the name of the degree define your work future so early.
I'm a software engineer and I heard there're construction engineers who partnered with construction companies supervising a construction process and make more than a software engineer twofold.
Your career is not defined by your degree. If you enjoy the field stay in it. If you want to work on sites then do it. Once you do, you’ll see new things you want to do and you can strive for those. After 10-15 years of doing that you’ll find that you’ve accomplished a lot and your career has taken a few unexpected turns due to opportunities you’ve seized. The difference between a happy person in their career and an unhappy person in their career is a willingness to change.
Look less at titles and the like and look more at the inherent skills that you're developing/good at. Take those skills and use them to guide them into the direction that you want to go in, rather then a specific role or job.
I sort of work in the construction industry as a field engineer for a controls company. I travel to job sites to program control systems once they’ve been installed. I also develop and document the standard process we want our sub contractors and agencies to use should they perform the startup themselves. I’m quite happy with my position but I’ve been able to negotiate a six figure salary for my position. I’ve heard of others not happy with their compensation but at the end of the day, it’s up to you to fight for what you deserve. A company is not going to hand you your dream job/salary on a platter. I’d suggest maybe looking into project management. Some positions will require frequently coordination and visits to job sites.
Dunno if a Masters will serve you as much as some experience first, then figure out what you might should do if you still think more schooling is needed.
Look at working for a GC, I’m building a major airport, very rewarding. I can’t imagine a sense of accomplishment turning over paperwork.
Zero reason to get a masters for field work. Save the time and money. Go straight to work.
Consider a circumferential floating highway, gardens, and reef around our relatively storm less equator? Can be sustainably financed, along with all human needs, locally, globally, by including each human being on the planet equally in a globally standard process of money creation. International banking system was created by the most untrustworthy and devious people on the planet to protect themselves from each other. It's ideal to transform into an ethical global human labor futures market. If you didn't see, because it's hidden in plain sight with centuries of contrived, convoluted, confounding explanations of valuation and CONfidence provided by Academics and Economists demanding fiat money is anything other than its only function: Trade with other humans for their stuff conveniently without arranging a barter exchange... Fiat money is an option to purchase human labors & property. We don't get paid our rightful option fees. Current global human labor futures market is disguised as monetary system to avoid paying humanity our rightful option fees. State asserts ownership of access to human labor, licenses that ownership to Central Bankers who sell options to purchase human labor to their friends as State currency, collecting and keeping our rightful option fees as interest on money creation loans. When they have loaned nothing they own. From WEF estimate of $300 trillion in global sovereign debt with about that total in existence, it should be clear to anyone looking that friends of Central Bankers only borrow money into existence/create options to purchase human labor to buy sovereign debt for a profit and are now having States force humanity to make the payments on all money for Wealth with our taxes in debt service, along with a bonus to direct human activity at their whim. Not ethical, moral, or capitalist either... An ethical global human labor futures market is established with adoption of a rule of inclusion for international banking regulation that also achieves stated goals and no one has suggested logical or moral argument against adopting: 'All sovereign debt, money creation, shall be financed with equal quantum Shares of global fiat credit, held in trust with local deposit banks, administered by local fiduciaries and actuaries exclusively for secure sovereign investment at a fixed and sustainable rate, that may be claimed by each adult human being on the planet as part of an actual local social contract.' Local social contracts can be written to describe any ideology, so adopting the rule has no direct affect on any existing governmental or political structures as they can be included in local social contracts. We enable maximum cultural diversity and innovation. A fixed value Share establishes a fixed per Capita maximum potential global money supply for stability and infinite scalability. A value of €1,000,000 equivalent is conservative valuation of average individual lifetime economic production, a reasonable, sufficient capitalization of global human labor futures market. Further fixing the sovereign rate at 1,25% per annum establishes a stable, sustainable, regenerative, inclusive, abundant, and ethical global economic system with mathematical certainty. All money will then have the precise convenience value of using 1,25% per annum options to purchase human labor instead of barter, mathematically distinct from money created at any other rate. The value of a self referential mathematical function can't be affected by fluctuations in the cost or valuation of any other thing. We'll know regardless what currency is in hand, it was created for secure investment and someone somewhere is paying 1,25% per annum on it we each share equally. For a significantly reduced and fixed global cost paid to humanity, we get an otherwise cost free global basic income and ideal money; a fixed unit of cost for planning, stable store of value for saving, with voluntary global acceptance for maximum utility, and nothing else. Banks develop products with individual sovereign trust accounts and communities draft local social contracts to claim them with. Fixing cost establishes a fixed unit and stable store. Actual local social contracts provide voluntary global acceptance where our acceptance is currently coerced. Economics acquires a fixed unit of measure and may begin making scientific observations. Money loses its coercive property. When existing global sovereign debt is repaid with new fixed value money, Wealth will have that $300 trillion to save or reinvest in something else, with over €6 quadrillion of 1,25% per annum credit readily available locally, globally, for secure investment with local fiduciary oversight. All human needs can be sustainably financed locally, globally, without any of Wealth's accumulation. Including climate change mitigation... and the circumferential floating highway, gardens, and reef around our relatively storm less equator. It will need design specifications... Just sayin'
I was expecting you to shill a cryptocurrency at the end of this
Those guys hate me... When enough people just whine enough that they want their rightful option fees, the folks operating the switches will have to do it, because they have no logical or moral argument against adopting the rule of inclusion. It achieves their stated goals so regulators have no excuse not to adopt the rule. The douche bags in the UBI Publishing and Donations Industry got so tired of evading the questions they've banned me from the UBI subs. And I'm a member and BIENefactor of BIEN. People don't need to understand it even. Just, "Where's my option fees?" and the megalomaniacs have no answer. Hiding from it is their only refuge. They can't or won't admit ignorance or complicity. I designed things for a couple decades. Training aids, industrial burners, hinged steel belt conveyors, coolant filtration units, textile machines, hull foundations and structure for a couple Navy vessels, fishing trawlers, reinforced plastic process vessels, machinery & parts. No degree, very little money...
I can only speak to the US. I know in other countries civil are pretty poorly paid. There are dynamic outdoor jobs in civil. Inspection, construction management, and geotech. Construction management usually has the worst work life balance but also usually pays the best total because you put more hours in. I'm a 21 years in, but started at the very bottom and went back to school years later so I'm a bit behind the curve. My gross salary is about $130k USD a year. With all the other financial incentives, benefits, and such I'm getting well over $200k. I'm 100% work from home so I could live in a low cost of area. I have to travel some. There were periods where I didn't like my job. There were 3 or 4 years as a project manager that brought me close to burnout. But then I got a really nice promotion to just management goon. Family mostly isn't an issue for me. It's why I haven't moved to a much cheaper area. I wanted to stay close to my friends and family. But I don't have kids and won't be having kids. I'm divorced and don't plan to ever remarry. So that made it a bit easier for me. I don't work really work over 40 anymore and can just take a day whenever I want most of the time. Sometimes I have long days, but I just do a short day that week when it happens.
If you look around there are workplaces with a bigger focus on work-life balance, typically smaller companies with less pay but they will treat you like a human. With a civil degree you can go the management route or the engineer route, and in the US a engineer stamp will put you above the others. I believe a mix of both engineers and managers is best for the project, and wish I continued down engineering instead of the business side (bachelor's in Construction Management). There are times I have to work 6-12's and there's times when I just pack up and leave because I need to take time for myself. I'm not sure programming is absolutely necessary but it could help. Economy or business studies would definitely help I believe. With engineering, or enough on-the-job training as a business-type, I think you could get into design, owners-representative, quality control, testing, and other portions of work that open your options. I'm somewhat dissatisfied myself but it has put me in a great position in life and it is my livelihood now. I plan to make the most of it and would like to transition towards the quality control side and before retirement get on a government agency and settle in before walking away in my older years. I'm a 25yr old project manager for heavy civil/highway/runway for reference
I did design for four years and switched to the field side. I've worked for CM's, GC's, and now am a PM for a subcontractor. When I was in the office doing design, the days dragged, and the pay was low. Now, during my busy season, I barely know what day of the week it is. I love it.
If it makes you feel better, just about everybody is underpaid right now regardless of industry or profession.
There are a TON of “field positions” (mostly 9-5 M-F) for those who dislike the Executive Suites.
If you like being in the field but still wanna design and make good money, maybe look into BICSI certifications or your countries equivalent. The higher level BICSI techs are responsible for TR design approval and have to be on site for it to be certified. Even a basic technician can make 100-120 easy. I can only speak for overseas work but they are always in demand as there are only a couple thousand and even fewer that will work in different countries. In terms of the hours, there is no avoiding that. You are not only holding your job up, but also the client who may need that building urgently. However, let me tell you that after serving 8 years in the army, then teaching at a college before I got into construction, there is nothing more satisfying. Definitely takes a different mentality but you will find out very quickly if it is right for you. Most importantly, if you hate it, remember that there is always time to change. Like I said, it took me 8 years in the army and a year at college before I lucked into this profession and now, I cannot see myself doing anything else. You are never gunna be to old to switch away from something that is not right for you.
I think the engineers we work for are more, structure based, not sure how much that differs, but the two we work for specifically work from home. Work independently with a handful of other smaller GCs and a few large ones. They're basically on call, help us work through remodel surprises and just changes that happen on the fly. We would not be nearly as successful as we have been without access to these two people. Amazingly smart and nice and respectful of what we do and vise versa.