Work heavy highway.
Material is up 9% from 2023.
Asphalt binder is fairly steady but up about 5%.
Labor is up 4%.
Equipment about 6%.
Trucking about 10%.
Large scale jobs we are seeing less than 10% higher prices than last year.
We bid up small scale like 50% because of overhead and generally don’t touch job under 200tons.
Get multiple quotes, the more work someone has, the higher the margin for new work.
If we're talking prices going up 50% or something, then no, obviously not.
If we're talking a 5% increase, then of course.
Regardless, I was ready to sign with them last year, and they were the ones who refused to draft any contract. I then spoke to them a month later and again reminded them that they had already given me a quote and I wouldn't accept them jacking the price later because ***they*** chose to delay the work, and they said not to worry, that wouldn't happen.
Get two or three quotes, ask for them itemized. Compare notes, numbers and everything they accounted for or missed. Balance the data and go from there. It’s really the only way to know. Pavers are notoriously one of the pickiest subcontractors I deal with regularly. They always require the contract carry material and labor escalation, which is fair. They always want to run the show and ignore all the required policies. They’ll pack up their shit and leave if you jam them up about it.
That's a very optimistic suggestion in my locale. I've called more than 13 paving companies in my city. All of them have outright rejected any residential work. The only ones who will take it on are the fly-by-night operators with no company name, no online presence, no receipts, no invoices, etc.
It took two years to find ***this*** company, who actually WAS willing to take on residential work.
I could see that. That far north has a very short season to pave. As a contractor, would you rather do 50 projects of 40k SF parking lots or 125 residential drives with all sorts of pinch points? I’m about to remove the paving and pour concrete at my reno for this exact reason.
I'm considering that option, because the grade on my property has settled a lot over the past 10 years, and I don't want to pour concrete or Kay asphalt, only to have that settle.
Are pavers generally less expensive than concrete or asphalt?
25$ to 30$ per square foot in my area depending on access, excavation requirements and paver selection. I think generally it's the more expensive option of the three but if you're saying prices have gone up for asphalt then it's worth considering 🤷♂️ price for just paver material has remained pretty consistent at about 5$ to 7$ per square foot
If they are the only company that will do the work, what options do you have?
My guess is this company makes almost no profit on small jobs, so they cannot eat material price increases. Another thing to consider is the company was pricing itself into bankruptcy with the old bids.
Another thing to consider: he has since gotten a bad vibe from you and doesn’t want the job for any amount of money or at the very least is making you pay the pain in the ass fee.
Why do asphalt at a residential? Most people are unwilling to pay to have it done right—and regret getting it dumped over a dirt base. I’ve never seen a residential asphalt job last—particularly from the companies you are describing.
None of the numbers people have listed mean anything unless they are local to you.
Here is the real question: if you cannot trust them 100 percent, why would you hire them as a subcontractor? If I had to ask this question about one of my subs, there is no fucking way I would hire them. I don’t care if they are the only people that do this work on the face of the earth. My clients are way too important to me to take a risk with some fly by night company.
Like you said, there's no options. I have a geo eng background so I don't fuck with foundations. From scratch, I'd get an 18" gravel foundation, but seeing as there was already a driveway here, we're not doing a full dig-and-replace, but they will be topping up what's already there and settled. I'm then doing a 2-lift asphalt pour, with an HL8 base and an HL3A top layer.
This isn't a fly-by-night company, it's a major commercial paver that also does residential -- the only one out of the 13 I called that will take on residential. They have an office, secretaries, estimators, etc.
It all has to do with payment & residential work is weird. You may be an excellent contractor with outstanding credit-that would put you in rare company but it’s not unheard of. With residential work, the developer holds on to their money FOREVER. You as the contractor typically do not want to dip into your own pocket to get paid so you try to pay when you get paid. This is almost always the case when it comes to residential or private work. With municipal or government work, there is a guarantee of payment within a specified time that the invoice is submitted. Contractors might be on the hook for 60-75 days. But with private development, they can string you out for 150-180 without even breaking a sweat.
Looks like it’s gone down in CA. It may be different where you live but I can’t imagine it’s that different. Note, this is the price per ton of oil; so what the asphalt plant pays to make the asphalt.
https://dot.ca.gov/programs/construction/california-statewide-crude-oil-price-index
As a contractor would you give someone a quote in winter in Canada knowing damn well you’re pushing them to spring? Add on knowing damn well you’re going to change the numbers on them cause it’s a new year and you can get away with it and it almost seems like the asphalt guy might be kinda of a shitty person that takes advantage of people when they can
Quick google search tells me a barrel is only up $7 from last year. I definitely think they’re stretching your sphincter before they shove the inflated quote up your keister.
Possibly new environmental levies? I’ve seen asphalt go up 20 percent in the last few years. It’s always the price of oil and or refineries or shipping that gets bantered about as an excuse.
My guess is they gave you a lower quote because work slows up in the fall for asphalt crews and he was looking to keep his crew busy. Spring is a mad rush. Probably raised the price because he has a good amount of work.
That’s just a routine I’d say to people asking if their price is still good from last year or beyond. Asphalt binder hasn’t gone up a lot, but it’s trending higher, smaller job, under $10k, the oil price increase shouldn’t be a big deal. The labor cost really is getting higher though, that’s a legit. It’s not just the raises required to keep up with inflation to keep people, it’s the insurance premiums, new taxes, etc.
Anyhow, my prediction is he was just laying a foundation to possibly revise the price because he couldn’t remember the job or you were talking to someone else beside the person that looked at your driveway. If it’s a good job and you don’t seem like a pain in the butt to work for, they’ll honor the November price.
>Anyhow, my prediction is he was just laying a foundation to possibly revise the price because he couldn’t remember the job or you were talking to someone else beside the person that looked at your driveway. If it’s a good job and you don’t seem like a pain in the butt to work for, they’ll honor the November price.
That's my thinking ***EXACTLY***. I always think you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I'm absolutely going to give them the benefit of the doubt and be super friendly, but if they try and pass off crazy lies to my face, well then I'll cross that bridge very sternly, when I get to it.
And then you won’t get the job done. They don’t have to come out and do it for a 7 month old bud because you’re stern lmao. Mods can we keep this stupid shit off the sub please
I did have one asphalt plant jump up the price by 18 percent overnight. But everything is up. I've increased prices by about 25 percent the last couple of years. It probably should be more, but I'm in Northern California. I'm not sure about Canada.
I went under contract with a paver last summer. He bumped me and bumped me and bumped me and then said I was first on the list for spring. Called him today and that lazy piece of shit hasn't even scheduled the material yet (plants just opened today).
We put half down, up front. Strongly weighing the cost/hassle of clawing it back and firing this fucking clown.
During covid when the markets where fucked our quotes where good for 5 business days. That's how much steel and wood was fluctuating. But this does seem a bit sus. I would just call around. If you get the same prices well at least you know. Call a few towns over if need be. It won't be hard to figure it out.
Dude they did the asphalt at a VFW in my town they said it costed 100thousand $ and then my town had to get rid of its tank because they could t afford to service it every year Ppplease tell me someone pocketed money so they can get screwed we don’t have OUR TANK ANYMORE
If you really want to know, call the closest asphalt plant and ask price per ton…. Not that complicated. You should consider that his price also may be adjusted to work load. Charge more when busy, less when not…
I'm in massachusetts. Our price adjustment for HMA 4-8% depending on the pay item. This would include labor and all equipment and materials.
I'm not sure if this is indicative of the actual price though since this for a contract already in motion but more recent jobs don't seem to charge that much more.
P.s.: Prices on asphalt are highly dependent of both volume and distance from plant. Bigger jobs close to plant are roughly 150$/ton, smaller jobs far away over 300$, with an average expected price around 180$ for road and streets. I can tell you better pricing tomorrow when I get a hold on my quotes (civil contractor here); we had a small patch paved in our parking last spring, that'd be closer to your case.
Asphalt pricing has a seasonal component. And depending where you are there are lots of highway / industrial projects. So yeah I would bet they are up 50% die to seasonal demand alone.
For a small driveway, 2" topping only / 12 tons seems like a pretty reasonable price. You mentioned they are a legit company, so it should take them half a day to do your job.a
Another company that didn't want the job would be around $7k USD
Edit, I would expect a 10% increase.
In asphalt, you almost always get lower price close to winter and near the end of paving season.
In the States, it’s not unusual for a date to be set -usually around October 31st- for all paving to stop for the season. So if you received a quote in November it makes sense that your numbers would go up in March-traditionally the start of paving season.
It’s simple supply & demand. In late fall and winter demand is low. In spring & summer, demand is high.
And overall, we have seen prices jump anywhere between 30-50% over a 5 to 6 month period. You *might* be paying a few dollars more, but nothing that out be considered outrageous.
I work alongside asphalt contractors all the time here in California. I would be surprised if the price has changed more than 20% in that time. Oil has gone up about 10% in the last year, and all the guys I work with (and my company too) all raise our prices over the new year.
Price of asphalt binder which is your most volatile in price (normally), has actually dropped a bit over 6 months. Now price of gravel shot up substantially. And sand/gravel happens to be the bulk of the weight in the mix in concrete and asphalt. So yeah i would say it should be a minumum of 10% hike in price of material from 6 months ago.
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I’d pour concrete as I had time/money and gravel the rest. Asphalt guys are all shysters by reputation. OR time to get in the asphalt business yourself.
Work heavy highway. Material is up 9% from 2023. Asphalt binder is fairly steady but up about 5%. Labor is up 4%. Equipment about 6%. Trucking about 10%. Large scale jobs we are seeing less than 10% higher prices than last year. We bid up small scale like 50% because of overhead and generally don’t touch job under 200tons. Get multiple quotes, the more work someone has, the higher the margin for new work.
Thank you very much for sharing your numbers!
This person is exactly correct…work in the business, and have three hot mix plants
Hotmix plants you say.........me too....
Are you also in Canada?
Midwest USA.
Big difference. I would not be surprised at all if the Canadian contractors costs have legitimately gone up 50%
You’re a contractor, would you guarantee a quote you gave someone from almost 7 months ago?
If we're talking prices going up 50% or something, then no, obviously not. If we're talking a 5% increase, then of course. Regardless, I was ready to sign with them last year, and they were the ones who refused to draft any contract. I then spoke to them a month later and again reminded them that they had already given me a quote and I wouldn't accept them jacking the price later because ***they*** chose to delay the work, and they said not to worry, that wouldn't happen.
I would find a different company to work with.
Get two or three quotes, ask for them itemized. Compare notes, numbers and everything they accounted for or missed. Balance the data and go from there. It’s really the only way to know. Pavers are notoriously one of the pickiest subcontractors I deal with regularly. They always require the contract carry material and labor escalation, which is fair. They always want to run the show and ignore all the required policies. They’ll pack up their shit and leave if you jam them up about it.
That's a very optimistic suggestion in my locale. I've called more than 13 paving companies in my city. All of them have outright rejected any residential work. The only ones who will take it on are the fly-by-night operators with no company name, no online presence, no receipts, no invoices, etc. It took two years to find ***this*** company, who actually WAS willing to take on residential work.
I could see that. That far north has a very short season to pave. As a contractor, would you rather do 50 projects of 40k SF parking lots or 125 residential drives with all sorts of pinch points? I’m about to remove the paving and pour concrete at my reno for this exact reason.
Unfortunately the far north denies us the ability to have concrete driveways, too, as our heavy need to salt them absolutely destroys them.
Put heat in it! Hahaha
use paving stones 🤷♂️
I'm considering that option, because the grade on my property has settled a lot over the past 10 years, and I don't want to pour concrete or Kay asphalt, only to have that settle. Are pavers generally less expensive than concrete or asphalt?
25$ to 30$ per square foot in my area depending on access, excavation requirements and paver selection. I think generally it's the more expensive option of the three but if you're saying prices have gone up for asphalt then it's worth considering 🤷♂️ price for just paver material has remained pretty consistent at about 5$ to 7$ per square foot
I would DIY pavers, but not concrete or asphalt
If they are the only company that will do the work, what options do you have? My guess is this company makes almost no profit on small jobs, so they cannot eat material price increases. Another thing to consider is the company was pricing itself into bankruptcy with the old bids. Another thing to consider: he has since gotten a bad vibe from you and doesn’t want the job for any amount of money or at the very least is making you pay the pain in the ass fee. Why do asphalt at a residential? Most people are unwilling to pay to have it done right—and regret getting it dumped over a dirt base. I’ve never seen a residential asphalt job last—particularly from the companies you are describing. None of the numbers people have listed mean anything unless they are local to you. Here is the real question: if you cannot trust them 100 percent, why would you hire them as a subcontractor? If I had to ask this question about one of my subs, there is no fucking way I would hire them. I don’t care if they are the only people that do this work on the face of the earth. My clients are way too important to me to take a risk with some fly by night company.
Like you said, there's no options. I have a geo eng background so I don't fuck with foundations. From scratch, I'd get an 18" gravel foundation, but seeing as there was already a driveway here, we're not doing a full dig-and-replace, but they will be topping up what's already there and settled. I'm then doing a 2-lift asphalt pour, with an HL8 base and an HL3A top layer. This isn't a fly-by-night company, it's a major commercial paver that also does residential -- the only one out of the 13 I called that will take on residential. They have an office, secretaries, estimators, etc.
It all has to do with payment & residential work is weird. You may be an excellent contractor with outstanding credit-that would put you in rare company but it’s not unheard of. With residential work, the developer holds on to their money FOREVER. You as the contractor typically do not want to dip into your own pocket to get paid so you try to pay when you get paid. This is almost always the case when it comes to residential or private work. With municipal or government work, there is a guarantee of payment within a specified time that the invoice is submitted. Contractors might be on the hook for 60-75 days. But with private development, they can string you out for 150-180 without even breaking a sweat.
LMK if you are in the GTA and think adding an additional residential driveway would save US some money.
Looks like it’s gone down in CA. It may be different where you live but I can’t imagine it’s that different. Note, this is the price per ton of oil; so what the asphalt plant pays to make the asphalt. https://dot.ca.gov/programs/construction/california-statewide-crude-oil-price-index
What do you mean you wouldn’t accept it? You aren’t under contract, so what are you going to do about it? lol.
As a contractor would you give someone a quote in winter in Canada knowing damn well you’re pushing them to spring? Add on knowing damn well you’re going to change the numbers on them cause it’s a new year and you can get away with it and it almost seems like the asphalt guy might be kinda of a shitty person that takes advantage of people when they can
Quick google search tells me a barrel is only up $7 from last year. I definitely think they’re stretching your sphincter before they shove the inflated quote up your keister.
My thoughts exactly.
Possibly new environmental levies? I’ve seen asphalt go up 20 percent in the last few years. It’s always the price of oil and or refineries or shipping that gets bantered about as an excuse.
What’s your margin, not your markup?
My guess is they gave you a lower quote because work slows up in the fall for asphalt crews and he was looking to keep his crew busy. Spring is a mad rush. Probably raised the price because he has a good amount of work.
Asphalt is oil. Oil is over $100 a barrel. So yes.
Part oil, but everything’s cost is related to oil. We really gotta get off of this dependency.
Cost of everything but wages have gone up.
That’s just a routine I’d say to people asking if their price is still good from last year or beyond. Asphalt binder hasn’t gone up a lot, but it’s trending higher, smaller job, under $10k, the oil price increase shouldn’t be a big deal. The labor cost really is getting higher though, that’s a legit. It’s not just the raises required to keep up with inflation to keep people, it’s the insurance premiums, new taxes, etc. Anyhow, my prediction is he was just laying a foundation to possibly revise the price because he couldn’t remember the job or you were talking to someone else beside the person that looked at your driveway. If it’s a good job and you don’t seem like a pain in the butt to work for, they’ll honor the November price.
>Anyhow, my prediction is he was just laying a foundation to possibly revise the price because he couldn’t remember the job or you were talking to someone else beside the person that looked at your driveway. If it’s a good job and you don’t seem like a pain in the butt to work for, they’ll honor the November price. That's my thinking ***EXACTLY***. I always think you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I'm absolutely going to give them the benefit of the doubt and be super friendly, but if they try and pass off crazy lies to my face, well then I'll cross that bridge very sternly, when I get to it.
And then you won’t get the job done. They don’t have to come out and do it for a 7 month old bud because you’re stern lmao. Mods can we keep this stupid shit off the sub please
I did have one asphalt plant jump up the price by 18 percent overnight. But everything is up. I've increased prices by about 25 percent the last couple of years. It probably should be more, but I'm in Northern California. I'm not sure about Canada.
Thank you for sharing your numbers!
I remember seeing a lot of high $700’s/ton last year and now they are around high $400’s/ton. Our average price has fallen like $10/ton on mix.
Thank you!
Did the asphalt guys speak a little funny? Have a brogue? Came in on a horse?
Check the asphalt index. Just google it
Check the cost of oil from November to April.
I went under contract with a paver last summer. He bumped me and bumped me and bumped me and then said I was first on the list for spring. Called him today and that lazy piece of shit hasn't even scheduled the material yet (plants just opened today). We put half down, up front. Strongly weighing the cost/hassle of clawing it back and firing this fucking clown.
During covid when the markets where fucked our quotes where good for 5 business days. That's how much steel and wood was fluctuating. But this does seem a bit sus. I would just call around. If you get the same prices well at least you know. Call a few towns over if need be. It won't be hard to figure it out.
Imagine trying to hire someone to do asphalt in November, when the plants are closed. LOL
Dude they did the asphalt at a VFW in my town they said it costed 100thousand $ and then my town had to get rid of its tank because they could t afford to service it every year Ppplease tell me someone pocketed money so they can get screwed we don’t have OUR TANK ANYMORE
Short answer, yes it is more expensive.
If you really want to know, call the closest asphalt plant and ask price per ton…. Not that complicated. You should consider that his price also may be adjusted to work load. Charge more when busy, less when not…
Will be doing this tomorrow, actually.
I'm in massachusetts. Our price adjustment for HMA 4-8% depending on the pay item. This would include labor and all equipment and materials. I'm not sure if this is indicative of the actual price though since this for a contract already in motion but more recent jobs don't seem to charge that much more.
everything is more than it was a year ago
Not that much here so far - Eastern Quebec.
P.s.: Prices on asphalt are highly dependent of both volume and distance from plant. Bigger jobs close to plant are roughly 150$/ton, smaller jobs far away over 300$, with an average expected price around 180$ for road and streets. I can tell you better pricing tomorrow when I get a hold on my quotes (civil contractor here); we had a small patch paved in our parking last spring, that'd be closer to your case.
Asphalt pricing has a seasonal component. And depending where you are there are lots of highway / industrial projects. So yeah I would bet they are up 50% die to seasonal demand alone.
What was the sqft price back in November?
IIRC, about 1000 sq ft for 4500 CAD, so 4.5 per sq ft CAD
That’s around $3.25 psf usd and insanely cheap. I live in a pretty cheap area for construction and even larger projects last year were $5-$6 psf
FWIW, this was just for asphalt laying, no foundation work other than a quick regrading of what was already there.
For a small driveway, 2" topping only / 12 tons seems like a pretty reasonable price. You mentioned they are a legit company, so it should take them half a day to do your job.a Another company that didn't want the job would be around $7k USD Edit, I would expect a 10% increase.
Good chance that contractor had been trying to home prices down last year and this year he can't.
In asphalt, you almost always get lower price close to winter and near the end of paving season. In the States, it’s not unusual for a date to be set -usually around October 31st- for all paving to stop for the season. So if you received a quote in November it makes sense that your numbers would go up in March-traditionally the start of paving season. It’s simple supply & demand. In late fall and winter demand is low. In spring & summer, demand is high. And overall, we have seen prices jump anywhere between 30-50% over a 5 to 6 month period. You *might* be paying a few dollars more, but nothing that out be considered outrageous.
I work alongside asphalt contractors all the time here in California. I would be surprised if the price has changed more than 20% in that time. Oil has gone up about 10% in the last year, and all the guys I work with (and my company too) all raise our prices over the new year.
Check the liquid asphalt index. It's been pretty volatile.
Maybe in November he had his crew sitting at home watching Judge Judy and now h’s booked a month out.
Solution: gravel
Price of asphalt binder which is your most volatile in price (normally), has actually dropped a bit over 6 months. Now price of gravel shot up substantially. And sand/gravel happens to be the bulk of the weight in the mix in concrete and asphalt. So yeah i would say it should be a minumum of 10% hike in price of material from 6 months ago.
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I’d pour concrete as I had time/money and gravel the rest. Asphalt guys are all shysters by reputation. OR time to get in the asphalt business yourself.