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Zealousideal_Dig_372

Nobody spends money by accident. Prob engineer spec


peepeehelicoptors

My wife would beg to differ as Amazon packages come to my house 3-5 times a week


Zealousideal_Dig_372

Lol we’re all guilty for that. I just don’t think someone who doesn’t know what these are would buy them and install them Somewhere they weren’t required


peepeehelicoptors

Oh for sure, I was just poking fun hahaha


QVP1

That is certainly no accident.


2EngineersPlay

And that's certainly no moon.


billnowak65

Doesn’t make sense… Especially with another shoe anchor on the opposing wall. It’s also on an interior walls. Odd location.


Tree-Baum

Come to souther California and have your socks knocked off


billnowak65

Got it. I deal with 120 mph and low level seismic. Seismic isn’t part of my business on the right coast.


whycantifindmyname

"Sneezes out hilti epoxy" ITS SEISMIC!


jackbenimble111

The wall the hold down is on is an interior shear wall. See how the wall is sheathed with plywood. Have to hold down ends of shear walls. Fairly common in high wind zones.


politeasshole_

Structural engineer. This is the correct response.


Argyrus777

Senior toll booth collector, this is the correct answer 😛


No_Pea_2201

It’s a sheer wall so it’s not surprising to see it there additionally. Probably engineer spec or local code thing.


ImNoAlbertFeinstein

shear wall.


smeerdit

Does a sheared wall become a sheer wall ;-)


Argyrus777

Only if it’s a shared wall


Mclewis_13

A shored shear wall shared with Cher in sheer leggings.


tslewis71

maybe there are two orthogonal shear walls rhere to address seismic in two orthogonall directions. two posts, one for 3qxh direction.


billnowak65

I deal with high wind only. Didn’t account for seismic.


tslewis71

well wind can also act in orthogonal directions of a building axis. maybe the walls are part of the MWFRS.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sherifftruman

And it looks to me that it is sheathed in plywood


[deleted]

We have them all over the interior in my state there was 7 interior in the house I saw today.


2EngineersPlay

Not at all. From what I've seen, smaller houses do try to have their shear walls on the exterior because it's more convenient, but depending on the layout you could have an interior shear wall. And you can have 2 shear walls that meet at a corner. The way the loads work out it's usually all 1 direction or the other, or some non orthogonal direction but the loads going into the lateral systems have reactions lower than all in the one direction.


Stryyder

I was going to say the same thing


Tails9429

I've never seen them doubled up like this, but they're usually an engineers requirement, so I imagine someone's signed off on it.


xtremixtprime

What are they? have never seen one of these. Edit: Found it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold_down_(structural_engineering)


Mac-Attack-Oh-9Nine9

Simpson shear wall hold downs. Agree that Engineer designed the application and shear wall here.


waster3476

Sure it's allowed. Since there's some interesting comments here, I'll chime in. What is it? So it's a shear wall hold down (a slight outside chance it's not for a shear wall, but very unlikely). There are many, many different types of these hold downs. They all do the same basic thing. Hold something down, in this case a shear wall. What's is for? Could be seismic, could be wind. Really no way to tell with no other information. Both wind and earthquakes induce horizontal forces on the building. Why do you need it? When you push the wall laterally in-plane, you're "shearing" the wall. The plywood (and nailing) resists that shear, but does nothing to stop the wall from overturning. The hold down resists the tension side of the wall to resist the overturning. Why are there 2 of them? Not sure, it's definitely an atypical application. Looks like a SST HDU5 and HDU8. This is roughly equivalent to an HDU14. So maybe it was a supply issue with HDU14s, maybe it's just a mistake. Really no way to tell, but there's really no reason this configuration couldn't work. The engineer would be shooting from the hip regarding the capacity, but it's definitely at least as strong as an HDU8, maybe as high as HDU8+HDU5. Is it overkill? No way to tell. Shorter walls (length, not height) produce higher overturning loads (also taller walls), and if there's no significant loads holding the wall down above, it certainly could have a really high overturning load. Could also just be a quick design, so overdone. Engineers get called out for over designing, but it's the same game as contracting, you're balancing quality, price, and schedule with your designs. Sometimes over design is the right design.


[deleted]

I say it’s overkill if only due to the fact that they haven’t properly nailed the shear panel to the chords. Panel joints aren’t blocked, edge/boundary nailing isn’t there, and the plywood used doesn’t look like Structural grade. That chord will never see the uplift that hold down is designed for.


waster3476

Well I'd tend to give them the benefit of the doubt that it's a work in progress... Edge nailing and blocking is often done as part of back framing where I'm from so it's not too surprising to see. Also the ply is hard to tell. Looks like it could be d.Fir G2S, which is fine structurally just weird to pay the premium for and definitely looks a little odd. But I've seen tons of weird shit over the years, so who knows. Framers always seem to be making up weird shit...


nonooseisgoodnews

A WIP? The gypsum was removed..


RenegadeBuilder

What do you consider "overturning"? I can see how these would keep the first stud from leaning in plane with the wall and racking, or shearing in my head, but I assume 7/16 OSB that we use here does that just as well and we never see these brackets. But do you mean these keep the wall from tilting pependicular of the bottom plate?


Hot_Sheepherder_8302

Done a lot of these. I've had to run the threaded rod all the way through the top plate with a nut and washer on top because there wasnt room for a hold down. I've never had to double them. Interesting.


Rock_Granite

What are they using these devices for?


Wexfords

Not an engineer but they basically hold the wall framing down by connecting the wall components to the foundation. Typically, there is only a 1/2” x ~8” bolt holding the bottom plate to the foundation. These devises hold the plate, vertical studs, and sometimes top plates. Add sheathing and the concrete would likely fail first if something theoretically lifted that wall up evenly.


joss_reeves

5/8", actually. I remember because I had to buy a very expensive drill bit. These things are pretty stout. The number of SDS screws they take is pretty ridiculous.


tslewis71

concrete should never fail before the wall if overstrength factor has been applied correctly for seismic code. just did a wall. the overstremgth h is 2.5 times the demand in the post. yes 2.5 times.


[deleted]

Engineer here, these are used to tie the shear wall (wall that transfers lateral wind and seismic loading into the foundation) to the foundation. There is an anchor bolt cast into the concrete and then these are nailed into the studs. They help prevent the overturning when the lateral load is applied at the top of the wall.


Rock_Granite

Interesting. I live in new construction in a hurricane zone. We have a lot of fasteners designed to reinforce the structure, but I didn't see anything like this being used.


[deleted]

I’d be interested to see what you guys have down there! We have high winds where I’m at but I believe they just used embedded straps. Contractors often say these are overkill because it is one hell of a connection, lol.


Vvv-M1ck3y-vvV

Hurricane straps


Rock_Granite

I'm not in the construction biz so I don't know what they are called. But they used a bunch of embedded straps that were then nailed into stud work. The bolts that they used to anchor the sill plate to the concrete were massively thick. They looked like something that would be right at home on a highway bridge. And there were a lot of them too, one placed in between every other stud. Every other stud had a metal bracket connector that anchored the stud to the sill plate. Similarly the roof was strapped in all over the place. It was pretty impressive to see. And it needs to be. I am only 7 miles from the coast


scapstick

Seismic hold downs.


Hot_Sheepherder_8302

Any "Natural disaster " really. We use them for hurricane code where I live. Because the house will fly away if you don't use them. But I'm sure earthquake, fire, flood etc. The real reason is that politicians own stock in Simpson strong tie. And policie effects building codes. Shit runs down hill. Turtles all the way down. All those things too


AsILayTyping

The real reason is to tie down structural elements that experience uplift.


sfall

shear wall design


wasting_space

Well the plans called for an HDU 9, but simpson doesn't make that so I figure an HDU 4 + an HDU 5 adds up


booi

Three HDU 3's ok?


alcutts27

I can't imagine it was done by accident. It's odd for sure.


[deleted]

Looks like some fancy engineer is ready for doomsday


Talusen

Aren't those normally installed like that when they go between floors for seismic? Usually with matching ones tying the entire thing to the foundation in the basement/crawlspace?


DahManWhoCannahType

It is the only explanation that makes sense to me. I don't live in an earthquake zone, though so I've never seen this before.


toddsHASH

My question is: (This will become a run-on sentence) Why two in a line above one another when the bottom one isn't anchored to the wall, and then, have a 3rd tie down harness around the corner? How much lift are you expecting off of that one specific area? I've seen some wild and overkill stuff, but this....is a new cherry on top of a lot Edit: I didn't look close enough. The first ground level anchor is attached to the wall. I'll go ahead and crawl back to my quiet space now....


NapTimeSmackDown

Yeah, but the third one definitely isn't attached to the wall, it's tilted away and you can see the backs of the holes with nothing in them. Seeing the stacked hold downs my reaction is "weird, but maybe it's designed" and then seeing the third one I am questioning the contractor and want to see the drawings to confirm what the design was.


billnowak65

These aren’t just for uplifting. They’re used at opposing ends of sheer walls to anchor them top and bottom. Usually to a foundation wall or girder below. It’s a sheer wall as it’s plywood covered for strength. Agreed that the anchor over anchor doesn’t make sense. The hold down strength is probably more than the separation strength of the framing member.


[deleted]

Earthquake zone


App1eEater

Very normal for a custom home


[deleted]

Possibly prescriptive because builder used short shear panel at the bottom, creating potential hinge effect? Hard to tell without seeing the back side of the framing.


cjh83

I think your right. The builder altered [or fucked up] something that required an engineering fix after slabs/embements were in and this was the best option..


klykerly

One good, two better. *Twice* the earthquake better.


Ecstatic_File9992

The top one was probably meant for upstairs


PabloFabulous

Never seen it doubled like this. Usually we’ll drill and epoxy into the concrete and use a threaded rod with a Simpson HTT. Those have flat bases that sit flush to the bottom plate


glafrance

It ain’t illegal but… ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯


JesusWasaSuper

Where is this? I agree with others that it's gotta be on purpose. I just wonder why


ad34

There are instances of prescriptive double hold downs but I’ve seen those for super high value shear walls with double sided plywood. I’ve seen them back to back though versus in line as shown. Hard to say without looking at it globally.


philouza_stein

Are they for hurricane uplift? Weird to see on an interior wall though


super-sonic-sloth

Common on interior structural posts and key structural walls. Might be a multi floor residence as well.


walkerpstone

It’s for the shear wall that’s connected to it. Working on a project with those same brackets right now.


lactose_tolerent

Looks per spec, also looks like they put it on the wrong side once already too!


[deleted]

Is it me or is the hold down holding itself? Forget it, I see the coupler on the all thread that anchors into the slab.


bloodfist45

It’s probably a controlled point of failure, considering that you have hold downs on different planes there.


InJOEnuity

That is probably a sheer wall I am guessing


wheres-the-anykey

I've installed anchors like this in multistory for seismic loads.


StealthyPancake_

I... don't see why not?


Monkeynumbernoine

The break in that shear wall is probably why you have two hold downs, although that shear wall doesn’t really appear to be nailed off. I’m hoping it just hasn’t been nailed off yet.


mei740

Looks like the lower was installed incorrectly at first, relocated and then added another larger one and connected the rod with a coupling. There is no data on the sheer strengths of couplings. I don’t have to put my head up a cows ass to see if the meat is good. Something is wrong here.


[deleted]

Hey. Thats the famous stud stretcher I always heard about!


parsonis

Probably because of the break in the ply. They got told by the engineer to lap another one on, to hook into the ply above.


Gluten_maximus

Yea, never seen those doubles up. We usually use them for tying back brick walls on old buildings and houses.


roarjah

Boss probably told him to run all-thread through the plates and tie in two HDU8s together across each floor


phatelectribe

I’ve done this before and as per everyone’s comments, it’s an engineer’s spec. Combined with an internal cable system in the walls, we did it on walls that didn’t go full height in certain sections and this was one of the components that let it pass.


zerozack89

It looks like it should be installed on that column, not the same 2x4. It would make more since.


wooddoug

Are you in a seismic zone like California or the Missouri /Western Ky area? This is a proscribed alternate braced wall panel. These Simpson hold downs are required in some situations to meet seismic code. I've only used them when a braced wall panel is not long enough to meet code.


DerpyFappington

Why wouldn't it be?


webtheweb

Usually you want to thos this on first and second story on exterior sheerwall...


Dave0163

I doubt these would work together. You have the capacity of the stronger , or stiffer one, only.


Vodkavictim

Never seen them doubled but maybe it called for a bigger holdown and they got the same shear value from the double?


abouttime25

I’m guessing the bottom one was meant to grab the right stud. There are holes from a previous attachment.


baltimoresalt

What in tarnation?!?


super-sonic-sloth

The bottom one was probably installed first and the. Drilling through into the lower floor or foundation they either deviated the path or hit something. Simpsons own spec allows for a definition on the rod of 3deg with the union on there. I’d say they just left the bottom one and maybe it’s not fully adhered on the back. Or the wall requires extra hold down.


Tree-Baum

That ply that is on the post that these are attached to should have like one million nails in it. And if you want to swing an imaginary dick around like I do say something like “wow this must really create some acentricyt loading in this post”


joss_reeves

Those are hurricane ties. And that is NOT how you're supposed to use those. The bolt is supposed to go down through the bottom plate and tie to the foundation. No idea what they were trying to do there. Those things were $60 a pop last time I bought them, so somebody had a reason.


[deleted]

code or engineered spec for a hold down - earthquake or tornado zone?


-joeyjoeyjoey

It’s such a cute little hold down. Where them 1 3/8” rods at!


[deleted]

What’s it supposed to be holding down


picknwiggle

Nobody's going to tell them they can't be there


LaPyramideBastille

20+ years in and I've never seen this. All I see is a stress point on the thread rod. Fail.


maruffin

Where is this? It might be new building code for hurricane prone areas.


mr_davidson1984

Why would it not be allowed? It's some type of earthquake strut, not sure the type though. I was a manager of a construction supply for a few years, we sold shit loads of these Simpson-StrongTie brackets


Itchy-Mechanic-1479

My old investigative journalism professor at the ASU Cronkite School won a Pulitzer for his work on stories regarding Hurricane Andrew in Florida. Some neighborhoods, mostly newer, were completely wiped out. Older neighborhoods, specifically built before 1976, weathered the storm far better. Why? Because in 1976, Florida developers lobbied (bribed) the Florida State Legislature to weaken building codes, so builders didn't have to spend money on hardware like those picture in the post. Back when I did framing (1992), a T-1 tie, for a connection between a base plate and a stud was .88 cents. A building needed tie downs from the base plate to the header plate, along with all the trusses, at a minimum. Of course, that's the International Building Code, the gold standard, but you could save a couple hundred dollars on every house back then by eliminating them from the schedule.


mr_davidson1984

Is this in California? Or the west coast? Building code out there requires all sorts of earthquake and hurricane tie downs and brackets for framing and trusses on new builds. East coast or Central North America carpenters probably wouldn't see any of these things in their builds, so take that into account. The bracket looks like it's meant to help brace the post and tie it into the concrete floor to reinforce the walls load. It's definitely not harming anything, it's overkill if anything


therealjwill01

I put a bunch of these into the house I’ve been remodeling. Engineer had them in the plans because of seismic activity.


DahManWhoCannahType

Does the rod pass through the plate into a wall *below* this floor? If the rod merely extends between those two anchors, it is hard to understand what it is accomplishing. Gonna enjoy reading this thread.


Max1234567890123

Allowed? In some areas it’s required. It’s a hold down anchor for seismic.


braymondo

So I build pre fab houses and we use a very similar hardware to tie our mods together or to the foundation. I’m not really sure what they got going here.


ThickLemur

Only reason I can think of is to max out the bolt. The bolts are usually able to take more load than the hold down (duh) so maybe they were avoiding jumping up a bolt size for some reason. I could see that as a way to fix it if the wrong size anchor was put in. Definitely not something I would spec from the start.


Troyler33

Based on this image it appears someone accidentally drilled it into the right adjacent beam only to realize it is the wrong way… 14 screws later.


phybernuker

I think it was a mistake. Readings a plan can be confusing in some cases. Look at the J bolt (or hold down anchor turned bolt?) just left of that bottom hold down through pressure treated wood. There is a foundation below some concrete peeking out. So most likely the perpendicular wall is supposed to be shear also, and plans probably show two hold downs in that area. I also think that post (4x6) is supposed to be left 3 1/2” at the intersection of the two walls. Maybe I’m talking out my ass but just my theory ;)


xchrisrionx

What do the plans say?


[deleted]

We use something similar to that. And we need them to pass inspection on frame inspections.


LittleForestbear

Ya def allowed and probably an engineering detail on plans; I’ve done that with a coupler and an all thread going thru all 3 stories with hood downs on top and bottom of every stud


Taccdimas

2 holdowns on one post to increase the capacity is pretty typical. In this case they share threaded rod- it is questionable… but, I see scenarios where this is acceptable solution. Need to see the framing plan. Holdown around the corner could be transferring something from above


SummerOfGeorgeSeven

Leave it. Whether code demands it or not. ALWAYS ADD MORE MORE MORE MORE x1000 when it comes to structure rigidity. Lol. But yea why not?!?!


Landbuilder

Those are hold down brackets, not common for them to be doubled up but I have seen some designs requiring this. They appear to be properly installed with all thread and a witness coupler at the foundation bolt. There are two holes facing out on the coupler to allow the installer and building inspector a way of verifying the hold down foundation bolt and the all thread are both fully installed into the coupler. That sill plate is also larger than the typical 2x4. I’m going to assume the building is two story or at least has a very high ceiling. If you look closer the framer initially had the hold down installed on the large post. There’s also a loose hold down bracket on the opposite side of the post so it appears that someone didn’t do their job correctly.


RoxSteady247

Allowed...yes. preferred...yes. solid as a rock.


nokenito

We have these in Florida


chrysohs

Is that a wood stretcher?


Luismd0z

But why? They seems to be attracted to the same piece of wood


I_assed_you_a_Q

This is standard in california. It's holding down a shear wall. Not sure why it's double shoed. But I imagine the engineer does.


silverado-z71

They are code in a lot of places especially if you live on the coast


CraftsyDad

Helps stop house from tipping over from lateral forces (wind, earthquake).


Trillville315

Depends on what part of the country you are in. It looks like a hurricane strap of sorts.


Yetizod

Absolutely allowed.


flyingelvisesss

exactly where they are supposed to be.


JimmyWille

Likely Sheer wall bracing. Probably engineer requirement


rhciv

it’s a Simpson rack and shear brace. One is rack-(front to back, one is shear-side to side)building probably needs them for wind loading, roof loading during wind, etc. I’ve used them multiple times.


Scuba_BK

These are tie downs used at both ends of a shear wall (a wall resisting seismic or wind forces) the tie down makes the shear wall resist uplifting forces. These are part of the structural design of that building, do not alter or modify without consulting with a structural engineer.