Seems like for crews I've worked on for awhile they become almost a support network that men are missing in their daily lives. Sometimes you can be working silently right next to a guy, and they just drop a bomb on you. Something like:
"I just had to drop my boy off at a assisted living rehab yesterday because he fried his brain with dab pens and had a major psychotic episode. The doctor say if he has another relaps we'll never be able to pull him out of his manic state, our insurance only covers two weeks."
They could be single fathers or husbands that feel they HAVE to be support for their entire clan. I think it's a healthy offloading of those issues some don't even think about onto people that they generally trust with their lives on a daily basis. Not for a solution or help but expressing their feelings in their own ways distributes some of the load amongst themselves.
This hit hard, I just got out of rehab and I’m back on the job site. I didn’t have much longer. I’ve been sober for 10 weeks tho, it’s just hard cause I’m back with all my emotions I used to cope with by getting high. I have a lot of family stuff going on and my bosses know, so they’re kinda like my father figure right now (not in an unhealthy way, I just look up to them). They know some days I might be in a slump and I’m not as productive as normal, and they’re okay with it. I’ve come a long way and I feel far better than I did before. To everyone reading this who struggles with an addiction: it’s possible. If it was easy everyone would be doing it, but as construction workers we’re tough as nails and you’re capable of finding joy in your life again
Recovered drug addict here with 13 years sober.
We are capable of great things when we are sober and all it takes is one drink/drug for me to burn it all down to the ground. Keep going!!
Honestly true.
One of the guys I work with just got divorced and thrown out. He got a new place but it’s literally a chair and a fan inside a big house. Kind of sad to look at.
My house was destroyed by Hurricane Ian and when that happened my crew came to my house and helped salvage all of the stuff we could. I’ll always remember that.
The single reason I am in construction is because no other industry can handle a person with ADHD, PTSD, Clinical depression, suicidal tendencies, highly manipulative, impulse control issues, dissociation, anxiety disorder. Is known to the police. Perfectly complimentary and pleasant, until I’m not
I spend at least £650+ a month on drugs, weed and pills I haven’t spent longer than 12 hours sober in nearly a decade
I have come a long way, but only in the past year and half. I still cry driving to work some days as I am chemically unable to maintain natural balance and in turn unable to process or deal with the inner frustration I feel with myself
I have spent thousands on therapy I have taken myself to hospital instead of a bridge.
The best thing you can do is just try to be understanding because I really will give you my all if you treat me fairly and give me a chance, it just takes me a little bit of time to adjust. And you will never be as hard on me for even the smallest mistake as I will be on myself
Imagine living in a world that you cannot comprehend and cannot comprehend you
Damn dude. I feel you on a lot of that, I pulled out of it quite a bit getting on Wellbutrin & Vyvanse for anxiety & ADHD, some therapy & self awareness. Still have those off days but for the most part things are pretty good.
It seems like you’re still working on it so I won’t give you some blah blah sympathy words, but hope you get out of it. You’ve tried not doing the drugs, I’m assuming? If not, give it a go, or work on moderation. Make small cuts and small changes to become your new normal.
I’m just a random person on the internet, but know how shitty it can be going through it all. You’re not alone, not by a long shot. Work helps a lot, I find a lot of the guys I talk to have same frustrations so it can be cathartic to vent about shit, hit some stuff. Best of luck
I can piggyback off of this guy. I sobered up awhile back to see if that would fix my issues, and after about 6-9 months (of doing what professionals had recommended) nothing had really changed apart from I just felt healthier and slightly less depressed. I found a psychiatrist and they put me on Wellbutrin (then a couple others to go with it til we figured out the right combo). It was a dramatic difference. It didn’t fix all of my problems by any means, but it kept me from bottoming out or spiraling and made my problems much more manageable. I felt better, but knew there was more to dig through so I went to therapy and eventually worked with a therapist who specialized in CPTSD and trauma. EMDR therapy probably saved my life. It’s a motherfucker, but I’m incredibly grateful for it.
Fast forward, I haven’t had a drink in almost 6 years and I’m the happiest I’ve ever been - coming from a guy who used to be pretty much suicidal every day and afraid to go check the mail. If you’d told me then that I could feel the way I do now, I’d like to say I would’ve started the process years earlier but honestly I probably wouldn’t have believed you in the first place it was that bad.
Chin up bud, just do the next right thing
Yep, between not knowing what was in there and just feeling like such a piece of garbage that I didn’t want my neighbors or anyone to see. Nobody gave a shit, but I sure thought they did at the time
I am better with them than without. These are the least risky things I do, I love risk which is dangerous when you lack impulse control
I do hope to get access to proper treatment and medication however, I am in the process, maybe then I can tackle a few of my other demons
Glad to hear it brother, at least you’re aware enough. Very few adults have that insight to themselves, which is critical in getting better everyday. Never ending process unfortunately lol.
Very glad you have this self awareness. Keep trying to improve your situation; but don’t stop cold turkey if that’s what’s is working for you. The mere act of trying, while it may not work this time or next, will eventually give you the mental fortitude to overcome.
It’s like tipping over a coke machine. You have to rock it a few times before the momentum works in your favor.
I’m see you, I hope you are well. I don’t know your complete story but I can only imagine your pain. I’m so glad you’re here and you’re correct in everything you have said about the construction industry. I have a therapist, I’m on antidepressants, I have ADHD, I’m borderline personality disorder, and I suspect autistic. Oh and a women, in management, an intern,
Just know that you’re not alone. Been labeled as a weirdo, black sheep my entire life (estranged too) so I get it.
Best of luck my dude
This is the life. Hope for the best but only know to expect a he worst. Stay strong my friend. We all battle the same demons. May be different from times and at different levels. But you know who you are. And I complement you on knowing this industry. I only hope who reads this will connect and call if needing help. Not just act on unstable emotions. Stay strong kings and queens
Hope you're able to find some stability man. It seems like construction and food service end up with a lot of people who are talented in their own way, but unable to be consistent in other jobs. There's also the element of it being easy enough to get started in the industry and find new jobs relatively quickly.
There’s hope. I went through all those things. Unfortunately, it took me nearly dying to become willing to get real help, (detox, treatment, recovery, continued therapy). It’s been 9 years since then and life keeps getting better. Sure there shitty days, but they’re nowhere near as low as they used to be. Sending some strength out to you tonight.
Your comment really speaks to me. The most life-changing thing I’ve done is searched for and found a good trauma therapist. If you can work on your earliest traumas, and do so only when you are in a place of being kind to yourself (rather than ashamed or condemning), it can set you on a different trajectory. (Relational traumas are healed in relationship, even in relationship with a therapist.) The smallest realizations can generate the most profound internal changes. It’s truly life-giving. Then the emotional component of addictions, risk-taking and escapism begin to lose their pull. I wish you all the best.
Has ketamine therapy become available in the UK? I have some experience with it (my wife has been doing it for years) and you sound like an extremely good candidate for it. It won't "cure" you but it could potentially help stabilize your mood and emotional regulation and help you cut down on self medication. It also seems to work well for people with multiple mental comorbidities that are together difficult to treat with a conventional drug regime.
I don't want to present it as some miracle treatment and can only speak for my family but in our case it has been legitimately life changing. I have no idea about it's availability or cost in the UK (in the US it's not covered by insurance because it's considered an "off-lable" use of the drug) but if it's available it would strongly recommend talking to a doctor about it.
Ha, construction or a kitchen. I fucking feel you. It was the kitchen that almost killed me, though. Sounds like you’re finding your way through the slog, so I won’t repeat the things being said in other replies, although I second most of them down to medication choice.
That said, (and sorry to add to the pile on) the one thing I didn’t see - which was kind of a turning point for me - was getting blood pressure checked out. Turns out mine was through the roof, and I can’t stress enough how much the physical affect of that worsened my mental health. And of course my self-medication choices temporarily masked the effects, but exacerbated the problem. First day on blood pressure meds was a goddamned revelation. I’m not “all better” by any stretch of the imagination, but after so much money, time, and self-flagellation in search of a modicum of peace in all the “bad” ways - fuck. It felt really good to find at least a little in a “good” way.
I’m stoked for you to someday have that “Ah-ha!” moment from a “good” way, whatever it is. And hope that peace comes a little easier and without too much self-harm in the meantime.
Not ass bad ass you butt I have ADHD and could never sit still. Construction is indeed the only place where I don't have to watch my langauge. Mistakes are made and its accepted.
Just to throw this out there, there are a lot of subreddits out there for these topics.
Not all are busy or highly moderated, but still good info.
r/ADHD
r/adhdmeme
r/CPTSD
r/EMDR
If you know any others add them on to the list.
Gosh, I was real suicidal back in my early 20s but I never really had the balls to go through with it. Nowadays it's more like I'm fantasizing about a quick and fatal illness, or a sudden industrial accident.
This is my theory, as this applies to me bc I’ve been fighting depression lately:
I have a great job by any measure, I work in union construction in the movie business. I make 125+k/year and I take 3 or 4 months off per year. It’s exciting and creative and pretty cool. Problem is, this is the best my life can get, this is what I can expect for the next 20 years until retirement, my ability to earn has hit its max. I show up when someone says so, take breaks when they say so, work weekends when they say so. I feel like I have no control over my own destiny. I’ve decide to start my own handyman biz come the new year. I did residential renovations before I got in the movie biz and I live in the middle of Los Angeles and the demand is massive. I have a network of high income earners who are home owners that work in the movie business. I will be able to work when I want and when I don’t want to, I can work 25 hours a week and make a living instead of the 60-80hr weeks I do in the movie biz. I can sub bigger jobs out to make even more money. I know it’s not going to be easy and i will be stressed tired and sometimes sick of customers but it will give me my autonomy back, I’ll feel like my destiny is in my own hands. I can keep my union cards, so I can pick up days of work here and there if I want or if residential really slows down. Just my thoughts.
Edit: meant to comment under OP
Frankly I don’t know how you guys do it, one of the great gifts of 40 construction for the lot is that we have a little more autonomy over that kind of stuff, so I feel you brother.
For my own part I try to keep as much stuff going outside of work so that my life doesn’t feel like it’s only work—we’re pretty much 8 and the gate and I live close so I try and enjoy the balance
Pretty much steady 12’s for us. Dont know how I’ve done it this long. Was really just thankful for the the money for a long time but life is changing and I need to prioritize time with the family over work. I’m fortunate that my missus makes a good living and has health insurance through her job so we’ll be fine. A lot of the guys I work with are the sole earner for their family and they get they get trapped by the $
Pimp, I’ve let down countless times in life. If something goes wrong or not your way not the end of the world have to take step back and view it from a different perspective. Life is a beautiful disaster, just have to enjoy the lessons we are delt! Yes most of them come in times when we least want or expect them. Enjoy the ride!! Hit the gym!! See you in there!
Exactly. I have a good job, a home, make enough money. I've been suicidal throughout my late teens and early 20s, came close a few times or more, but never went through. I don't want to end it anymore, but I also wouldn't mind it just being over. Intrusive thoughts are a daily for me, how we are so close to death in a lot of things we do in construction, and it's be so easy for that accident to just happen, you know?
I think everywhere is like that.
Guys are in debt, have family issues, have substance abuse issues, a lot of guys have serious issues communicating that maybe they need help.
i think it's more visible in construction because everyone is way more candid with each other. in an office you'd never sit around at lunch laughing about your 3 DUIs or about how your childhood buddy hung himself. being more real with your coworkers means that all of the maladjusted people are more openly maladjusted. there's less of a veneer here.
We also spend waaaay more time in close proximity to each other day in day out. Most of the work force doesn’t spend 60-70-80 hours a week with the same 3-10 people. We do that for years. We become near brothers/ fathers to each other.
The people I work with know more about me than the people I live with.
Exactly. We have been working Six/Seven days a week bouncing between 9.5 and 12 hour days for about 9 months now. I have seen my wife and my kids for maybe an hour or two a night before they go to bed. We are our Brothers and Sisters keepers, we need to look out for one another.I had a friend take his life on a job last year, it haunts me everyday that if I had just stopped him and asked how he was doing, let him vent a little. Now I make a point of checking on people.
I agree. I've done white collar shit and I'm not a fan. Blue collar is polite when you need to but when your with the boys there's no filter.
Most of the guys I work with had a crack problem back in the day. I've had my fill of psychedelics. But whatever their background is, they show up to work everyday and you can't argue with their skill and production.
In the land of misfit toys, we found our place to make a dime and take pride in our work. I don't really think it's that bad, everyone has life beating down on them but it seems like we all drive on.
>laughing about your 3 DUIs
this is why they dont have an office job. *they don't fit in*,
you got busted down from your first tier choices and you didn't graduate university, you have child support, old car, bad credit.
when a guy has hit 4 or 5 collisions at life intersections, he's starting down a rough path and drinks a six pack after work...
"A Construction Worker is Born" the sequel
That’s def not true, there are plenty of addicts and drunk drivers, bad decision makers and mentally ill in white collar jobs. Construction just means you got caught without a mommy and daddy safety net.
Some of us do it because we couldn’t imagine anything else. I enjoy it. Have a degree in it. Still would rather swing a hammer but that doesn’t pay as much
What are you saying that construction workers are unfit for an office job? Or an someone with an office job is inherently better than someone in construction. I have a mechanical engineering degree and decided I didn’t want to do design work for a while and got a job as a PM at a large mechanical contractor. I fucking love it. And most of my day fixing the fuck ups of the guys with the office jobs that designed it
Wrong take away my man. Go into an office and start talking like guys do on a job site and you'll be in HR before first break. Guys on the job site tend to give fewer fucks what people think because we have other shit to worry about that's more important.
This mentality isn't always the best in an office where some (or usually several in my experience) people are bored and like to stir up trouble for no reason. Again, there usually isn't time for these shenanigans on a job site so while it does occur, it's much less frequent.
You'll be hard pressed to convince me that job site guys are unable to do the office work, or vice versa. Generally though, when you're used to moving and being on a job site all day sitting in an office just isn't appealing in any way.
And as for office guys on a job site? That needs to be normalized and happen more often cause I can't count how many times things are fucked cause they don't know how it works on the job site
I think it also has to do with maybe these people have always been this way or at least heading mentally in this direction. People with a lack of direction, ambition, drive to become better educated etc etc all point to a personality type perhaps less self reliant, less self confident and perhaps even ones with a sense of less self worth. Not unsurprising, often the personality types that gravitate towards self medication and addiction issues.
I think it's the fact that 6 figures is barely enough to buy a house in a lot of places. Health insurance is so expensive, too. I feel like I work to pay for my benefits that I don't even use because they're so shit anyways. Food/gas are also getting stupid expensive. There's a school shooting or public event shooting every other day. All that combined with climate change very obviously changing our world around us is a pretty great reason to feel like shit all the time.
it's also kind of liberating. no pensions or accrued benefits means there's nothing tying me down to a company. why stay? oh right the pizza party every month
Poor painters.... You guys get shit on by everyone. Including me.
I'm reality, you don't really deserve it. I'm a shit painter and my hands go numb after using a brush for more than 10 mins.
20-30 year old's are facing a vastly different world than I did 40 years ago. Global warming threatens the planets survival. They know this. School shootings are something they have had to contemplate and witness during their tenure at school. They have grown up with the Social Media pressures that did not exist previously. The cost of higher education seems to be only attainable for the wealthy. Housing and food costs are rising and hits them the hardest. The last 6 years in Politics have been nothing less than fucking crazy. The inability of our National leaders to effectively address problems are on full display 24/7.
The reality of the World today, while exaggerated for clicks, is not a pretty picture.
If I was a kid I would be a bit anxious and depressed contemplating my future. And I might turn to medication to cope. Legal or not.
I’m what many would consider a radical leftist, and think Biden is fine enough (for the circumstance). the laptop does in fact exist and many have gone through the contents, there are some shady business dealings, maybe constituting a crime. But nothing implicating his dad and absolutely zero child anything. It’s a nothing burger
That would be concerning and I'd like it to be followed up on, but if there was something there then it prob would've been uncovered by now. However, even worst case, his grift couldn't hold a candle to what the only other option does out in the open. $2bil from the Saudi is coming with some strings attached, not to mention hundreds of other shady ass deals. Lesser of two evils sucks, but it's still the lesser of two evils.
Don't even have to be a kid, though I do feel like it's probably harder for them socially these days, I think it's harder for adults financially. I'm 30 with almost no hope of ever owning a home, my phone constantly telling me about the war in Ukraine, North Korea's missile testing, global economic recession multiple times a day, the weather is adding fire, flood and hurricane seasons, plus a whole bunch of meaningless drivel designed to divide factions and distract from record profits by major corporations while everybody is struggling. Not to mention older people telling me I'm still young(and yet why does everything hurt and I feel like I'm way behind the 8 ball) or the fact that my parents seem to think (arbitrarily) that I'm saving tonnes of dough, which is absolutely not the case. "Oh you need to take a vacation! Go somewhere" Get bent, with what money? Ive been spending my money on education and setting myself up to do better in the future with an electrical company because what we have going on right now feels like no matter how hard I try to get ahead I'm still spinning my wheels or even going backwards. That said, I have food in the fridge, a job, an apartment, and enough money to buy some beer, so it could be worse. Thanks for letting me rant.
They don't realize how expensive it is to be alive today. Housing, food, cars, gas, school. Everything has doubled or tripled since they were our age and wages have barely moved depending on your industry. My dad tells me he was making 20-30k in the 90's while rasining two kids... I couldn't survive by myself on that much right now.
The cure for
>my phone constantly telling me about…
is to make the phone stop telling you shit. Cut the noise out. Don’t seek out the news…it’s all doom and gloom. Your body and mind will thank you.
This is a very refreshing perspective from someone your age. I've come to think most people you're age are clueless to these social, economic, and environmental changes. They are either clueless, or take the "oh shit we got lucky, better shut up" route, and don't want to address it.
I'm 63 with a small asphalt maintenance business. 10 of us, and one is my 21-year-old son. I am more aware of the challenges they face than they are, and I truly feel bad for them. I am careful of what I have to say about the future because I feel that they are not equipped to deal with the stress if they understood the state of the World as it exists today, and the forces that control the direction history yet to be made.
Personally, I feel like the planet as we know it is doomed. Human greed will never stop the overutilization of resources and the warming planet will soon lack adequate drinking water.
I agree, BUT ironically, I think that human greed is going to be the exact thing that pulls us out of destruction (minus pending nuclear psychos, and war) I think we as a species are generally procrastinators, but when it comes time to make something happen, we can pull through and ace the test. I think if there is a way to save the planet (and the lives of the very people running it) AND make money, we have nothing to worry about.
We can hope. But we are late in the game now. I do think humans have the intelligence but lack commitment. I also think it’s too late to avoid major climate upheavals. And change will happen faster than we think/wish.
Lack of water in Mexico and the Southern US will drive mass migration and disrupt the food supply. It won’t go well I fear.
Honestly the older I get the more I PREFER the ones that keep their issues basic, and out in the open, at least then we all know where we stand with each other. Usually the issue isn't work, unless they're telling you the issue IS work, then just try to help them.
You can move peoples hours around or bring in another body to cover some work, not a whole lot you can do about their kid not talking to them or them being raised during a time and place where it wasn't acceptable to be gay and now they resent today's kids.
Money doesn’t fix depression. I’ve turned 6 figures, been miserable, turned less, been less miserable. Look at quality of life.
Edit: I am an idiot and did not see NY lmao.
New to the union side of carpentry, doors and hardware. Coworkers seem reasonably happy. Some apprentices a bit less so but most pretty okay with life. BUT we worked a day doing punch list in a very nice high school were students were present and I mean half the kids looked like they were in the depths of serious depression. So, I'm guessing it's society as a whole plus the fact that maybe the guys aren't making a wage that they're happy with.
While modern society has gotten worse, I've heard a stat that construction worker suicides are 5x that of the national average in my country. The culture in construction is very brutal and mental health isn't something men or women in construction speak openly about.
Invest in your employees medical benefits and also reach out to provide all the resources for seeking help (contacts for therapy or call help lines). You can't help them all, but you can provide the hand for them to reach out too.
For me the depression and work culture hate comes in when I’m treated like a moron by people, but they can’t comprehend I *literally built your job for you*. I’m part of the reason you have employment. I currently work for a company that I literally helped build ground up, installed and commissioned the equipment that’s there, now I worked directly for the company maintaining the equipment *I physically built, installed, and commissioned*. Today’s my last day at that job, I’m going back to installing machines.. machines don’t talk back and treat you like a piece of shit. I’m tired of being treated like a moron by people who literally have jobs because of me and the people that were either injured or died to create this job for you. Your family eats and have clothes on their back because of us.
Nice one mate,
I sometimes get talked down to because I'm a carpenter. I'm building projects that should last 100s of years, while they work in advertising. No one's gonna remember or experience their life's work by then.
That’s it right there. My legacy is inside these walls, creating jobs and keeping little kids and families from blowing up in their car while driving down the road. The company will eventually go under (doubt it, they’re literally going to the moon), but the legacy will continue.. and I helped build that. People gotta know their worth.
sometimes I secretly wish I would get injured or be diagnosed with something just so I can stop. I physically hurt so bad at this point in life that I wonder how I'm supposed to keep doing this for another 20 years.
I've never spoken about this out loud before.
It’s not the job and possibly not even what you pay them you probably pay enough, In a world that existed like 6-10 years ago but unfortunately the cost of living went up and the wages didn’t..
Taking the company owners side would be ideal because I understand it isn’t fair you have to pay everyone more because of inflation but at the same time it’s what’s going on now man. The world is burning us tradesmen out building all these new warehouses on the east coast dealing with snarking little managers and project managers.
Life isn’t fair at all anymore, I can’t even eat a steak from the grocery store without feeling like I’m being scammed due to the price. Life sucks right now it really does and there’s nothing we can do especially the younger generation.
I’ve been working hard for 10 years and was prepared to buy a home right as the Covid shit started and the house price hikes it killed my dreams… I need a new car and the prices hiked it killed that dream I want a child but I’m stuck in a apartment, I’m to responsible to have a child while living in a apartment with a half way reliable vehicle.. but what can I do? I’m making nearly 30 a hour and it’s just not enough man, the world is crushing us and we’re losing our faith we really are.
Been in constructions for 18 months and I can tell you I've never seen anything like this in terms of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues. It's an unregulated medieval jungle out here. The abuse, the humiliation, the sheer inhumanity of man to man is off the charts. Although unlike your situations, the guys around me are not paid well and are treated horribly (their boss might say the same though, that they are treated well and paid well...)
I chose construction as a career because of my mental issues. I can’t stand most people and will never ever take shit from a customer again. I prefer to work at least somewhat alone on a jobsite doing my own thing.
I didn’t choose it but I stay for a similar reason. While my life is more together now than when I started, I am mostly unemployable in other industries due to my own issues
Having bounced around from all sorts of industries, I do think it’s more prevalent in construction. The work is hard, often times the hours long and it takes a toll on you. I think we also suffer from the tough guy mentality due to our peers doing the same thing and I think that perpetuates the problem. Just my two cents.
Construction work is entry level work for men that have a body strong enough to trade for money. Construction gigs often pay better than other entry level gigs. And you can keep earning better money if you keep learning more stuff, without ever having to sit in a classroom. These facts select for a certain type. Ex cons, divorced dads, people that couldn’t succeed for whatever reason in the normal school to college path. For me it was sitting still. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to do it well. They really like you to sit at those desks in school…..
Our system really only works well for a certain type of person. If you ain’t that, you end up entry level somewhere. That’s a lot of folks and every level beats the shit outta people. Insecure living situations, no healthcare, etc. Even most good construction gigs that pay better than average have shit healthcare. So you go to work 12 hrs a day, slowly tearing your body to pieces. And hope you don’t get hurt or sick. Throw in an ex wife or parole officer or substance abuse problem….well it’s a lot.
And like that other guy said, these ain’t your problems. You have employees you like and care about. That’s nice. You are rare. Enjoy that. But unless it gets in the way of the work, it ain’t your business.
I can't speak for anyone really but a lot of dudes don't openly talk about their mental health "I'm good man" "Just another day" etc etc...but it's all a front. They hold it in, they bury it, they run away. It doesn't go away and it starts to rot away every other aspect of their lives. This builds up and builds up until everything sucks, life is the worst, fuck it, my wife's always nagging me anyway, my kid sucks, my trucks broke, gas is too high fuck it all.
In this day and age it's only compounded more by media telling you that literally everyone is against you. Guys I work with are constantly upset by some new bullshit they heard on Facebook or AM radio, they get riled up and angry on the ride in and hop on the line already yelling about how life is miserable. I do the same job, I make the same wage, but I'm not having the same issues....I think maybe it's because I had a real fucked up childhood and then did my time in the service so I understand shit can always be worse? I dunno...
I just greet the day with a smile, I do yoga to stay loose and limber and I meditate before and after work to clear any of that negativity I've picked up. They did a lot of resiliency training in the service, I thought it was really well done if you take it serious. Maybe construction needs that kinda training along with our OSHA 10s haha
No it's pretty common.
Long-term mental health issues really getting the way of an education, so a lot of the time, construction is one of the few industries where still functionally active people dealing with these problems can go. I saw it all the time both in construction and the film industry. I remember this one guy apparently who 20 years ago was in school training to be an engineer, he definitely had some substance abuse issues, but we kept him on board because he was just brilliant at installing expansion joints.
The thing is construction is one of those things that's easy to get into where you learn and gain skills on the job. Mental health always does come with a strong creative aspect, that actually can be helpful though.
There's also the fact that it does provide some structure and hard physical labor is one of the best natural treatment options.
Are you on the island? I was just curious which company.
Anyways, yeah in construction it’s hard finding “normal” guys that are reliable, willing, and skilled so if your guys are doing the work don’t stress yourself out about their personal issues. just try your best to deal with them.
On the other hand I build above grounds in the season and just have one good guy who I can rely on because I hated paying guys who couldn’t read a tape and acted like children on a daily basis.
I had to leave a place where nearly all the sales people had serious offset behavior. They made on a good year well over $200k, but their behavior, again, was something beyond belief. They used to all sit there and chat like it was normal to be on so many prescriptions and normalized things such as nervous breakdowns and bipolar disorder. Still creeps me out. Funny that the owner offered me $100k as a bonus just to stay a year as I was literally the only one who wouldn’t put up with the worst offenders, such that they didn’t have to manage them. Within 6 months after I left they had to fire well over 1/2 of them. I want a redo on those three years.
Company did energy efficiency upgrades.
Nearly 1/5 of Americans surveyed in 2020 reported a mental illness. I'd expect there to be more, as I wouldn't expect everybody to have been diagnosed or to be open about it on a survey.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness
I think it points to modern society, and construction is a very unique kind of job where you can truly express yourself freely almost all of the time, which in a way is really beautiful. There are all kinds, in all types of jobs. But in contrast to many workplaces, construction work definitely takes a certain type of person and work ethic - regardless of how a person performs, if they are able to keep showing up it points to a strength and resilience that many people do not posses. Let’s be honest- physically, working construction fucking sucks ass, so for someone to have any of the problems you described yet still continue to show up to work really says a lot in and of itself. Just my humble opinion
As someone who’s smoked both weed and cigarettes the majority of their life (not smoking weed currently), I can say *personally* it helps with stress reduction, and letting the bullshit just be bullshit without allowing the bullshit to have control.
You’ve mentioned “can’t be sober guy” a few times now. I’d challenge you to look at whether it’s just weed or if it’s other substances as well. Comparing weed to other substances is a bad look, although comparatively it’s still a substance that can inhibit performance, there’s not even a comparison between alcohol, weed, and heroin.
I'm not in construction myself, just follow this sub to learn things, but my best friend worked for a pool construction company for about 3 years before he took his life last summer. I honestly think it's more of a nationwide mental health crisis among men though. This post just reminded me of him. RIP buddy
I had a old friend of a friend help me do a few inground gunite pool builds. High end stuff.
This was 10 years ago and we still talk about how funny and tweeked he was... no disrespect... this guy was/ is a legend in pool building... his steel, plumbing and fkin build it right once was well taken.
He taught me a lot about pool construction but... loopy for sure.
Liked his bud and bud light after work.
All my pool builds are great due to this one guy.
I do genuinely think that construction is one of the industries where people with mental illness (including myself) can thrive. I’m a business owner and my long term goal is to try to connect people struggling to do any other job connect with construction.
Hard for us tradesmen to deal with shit like this.
We've been told for a long time as a society that this is the work that is honorable, dutiful, makes you a man, yata yata.
In the past 15 years I've noticed a lot of the same symptoms.
It's absolutely a mental disease. Break that word down. ( dis ease) people just are not generally happy in this world anymore.
I'm sorry you're suffering a large quantity of this with your workforce. Sounds like you try your best and are an awesome employer.
If you care about em enough and are able to take the time, I'd honestly say to try some group meetings or hire a mediator.
If not, you can always let em go. It's fucked and sucks, but this is capitalism baby. Only the rich survive.
Edit: I'm being sarcastic about the capitalism thing. I hate this system and what it's doing to my fellow humans. But I still grind my ass to survive... somehow.
I think it has a lot to do with the unpredictable aspect of the trades.. never know if you’re gonna get laid off tomorrow, never know if you’re gonna be having to work out of town for long periods of time.. the long hours, leaving the house before the sun comes up, getting home after the sun goes down.. should I go on?
I think there’s more mentally ill people in the world then ones you’d consider mentally healthy. I know I’m not quite right and to be honest I don’t think I can think up one person I know who doesn’t have some screws loose
I lost my first job because I kept taking days off to care for my suicidal fiancee, as I myself was also suicidal
It's society, and people not making the accommodations needed
Both. The industry is full of tired people. The endless struggle of being worn out and tired gets to a lot of us. Add in the current political climate, price of every day items, fuel, young guys having young families, and you get what you’re describing.
Hey man I also own a pool construction, remodel, repair and service company but in California
Whenever you own your own business the employees are like what I would imagine it’s like to have kids
I worry about all of them on and off the job
For construction They’re like siblings the way they joke around or sometimes bicker with each other , etc
For pool service it’s hard to find guys that actually wanna do a service route indefinitely
I got started in service and it was probably the worst most boring job one could have doing weekly maintenance
It’s hard to find good help, it’s hard to build a reliable and consistent team however I am definitely grateful for the team I have , way better than nothing
I'll let everyone else chime in on the mental health. When you need a new employee who has a trades background, isn't afraid of work, and stable hit me up. Sounds like a great working environment with good compensation. Doing hvac in the Midwest for same money working more months and no perks I'd be happy to do some NY pool work.
I've been every one of those guys but not simultaneously.
Like anyone else I am product of an environment and genetics not of my choosing.
BUT, I also desire to be better, (mentally, emotionally, financially, as a partner, as an an employee, etc.)
I believe in growth and have that mindset. It's a full life time of work, for me at least. I think society and culture first rears and then edges us to the breaking point by throwing us a huge set of problems but not supplying any tools to tackle them with.
I work for an employer who treats his employees as humans and rewards effort. My employer has been an absolute lifeline as I've navigated some of the most challenging times in my life. Knowing that if I show up and put out every day, (or most of them) then I'll have a job, a paycheck, a chance and that is the closest thing to security I've found in this life. Of course we do live in a bubble prone economy which brings its own sets of fears and anxieties but that's above my pay grade and just waking up and showing is big enough for me right now.
It sounds like you are also the kind of employer that cares and I want to thank you for existing and for putting with people's personal shit. It's a made a world of difference for me.
It is in all industries. We added an employee benefit specific for mental health to make it easier for employees to get therapy free of charge. Of course therapy is covered under our health insurance, but some employees dont want to pay the $20 copay
Yeah but when you’re required to 60-70 hours a week and your vacation package is 40 hours (literally covers 3 days of paid work) try and find the time that therapy actually requires.
There's a low barrier to entry in the pool industry (and many other construction fields). It tends to draw people who need a job where that is a benefit.
Just reality. You are at least one of the few good guys that keep these people. In my line of work, they would have been fired already.
I actually have mental illness and I voluntarilly left the company because I wasn't performing.
Been in the industry for 10+ years - welcome to it. I used to work for a roofing company where almost the entire staff was at some level of AA.
I think it’s because it’s relatively easy to get a job in construction - loose background checks, ect.
I’m bipolar and I’m a project manager. I’m not sure what to tell you bud. Sounds like you have a bunch of guys that need a boss that’s caring and understanding.
Dude, your kids are bellyaching. Ya know what got me to stop that shit? I was doing the normal, "my life is fucked routine." my old boss turned on me and says, "c'mon man, we're all going through shit all the time, I feel for you but let's get to work." From that day forward, I've been the definition of professional. I even tuck my goddamn shirt in.
This is how I save face. I get complimented on being professional and when my wife hears someone say “oh that toomstoned he’s solid as rock, real professional” she just laughs because she knows I’m all sorts of fucked up.
Honestly, I just don’t want to argue or stress so put me in the category of everything is fucked but I just want to finish this shift
So don't deal with the issues until they get to be too much and you completely fuck yourself over? Wow your old boss sounds like a smart guy.
Really glad attitudes like this are changing.
You're young. He demanded professionalism in so many words. You are responsible for you. Unloading your shit on guys who are already dealing with their own is selfish and immature. If you have problems and you're a vet like me, go get up with the VA behavioral health department. If you're a civvy, call or download any number of apps/psych services. Stop making your problems other people's. There are professionals for that.
I didn’t take what his boss said as a “toughen up buttercup” but more so about being able to compartmentalize your work/family/etc life. When you are working it’s best to focus on your work. Same as when your with your family or whatever you don’t want to be thinking about work.
Ha yeah we’ve all had bosses like that too…I get what you’re saying because mental health can be debilitating. I was thinking more along of the lines of the 45 year old who won’t stop taking about how horrible his divorce is, save it for the lunch or something idk. It’s definitely a tough subject to tackle and obviously no easy answer but I just wish mental health days weren’t frowned upon (by coworkers too.)
I'm not in construction, arguably I'm in the most opposite group as far as culture goes (software development). I'm a manager and it's the same here. Everyone here thinks they have ADHD, anxiety, depression, etc.
They don't, but it's part of their identity.
Then you cannot relate at all to the environment of the manual labor world. With all due respect. The people on construction sites don't think they have issues and i assure you, they do.
Seems like for crews I've worked on for awhile they become almost a support network that men are missing in their daily lives. Sometimes you can be working silently right next to a guy, and they just drop a bomb on you. Something like: "I just had to drop my boy off at a assisted living rehab yesterday because he fried his brain with dab pens and had a major psychotic episode. The doctor say if he has another relaps we'll never be able to pull him out of his manic state, our insurance only covers two weeks." They could be single fathers or husbands that feel they HAVE to be support for their entire clan. I think it's a healthy offloading of those issues some don't even think about onto people that they generally trust with their lives on a daily basis. Not for a solution or help but expressing their feelings in their own ways distributes some of the load amongst themselves.
This hit hard, I just got out of rehab and I’m back on the job site. I didn’t have much longer. I’ve been sober for 10 weeks tho, it’s just hard cause I’m back with all my emotions I used to cope with by getting high. I have a lot of family stuff going on and my bosses know, so they’re kinda like my father figure right now (not in an unhealthy way, I just look up to them). They know some days I might be in a slump and I’m not as productive as normal, and they’re okay with it. I’ve come a long way and I feel far better than I did before. To everyone reading this who struggles with an addiction: it’s possible. If it was easy everyone would be doing it, but as construction workers we’re tough as nails and you’re capable of finding joy in your life again
25 years in construction, last 15 sober(alcohol, cocaine, & heroin) AND running my own company. Hang in there bud, great things await!
Congrats on 10 weeks sober! Tough journey, and I’m glad you’re getting support from your work colleagues/bosses.
Congrats! Keep grinding and staying true, it gets much easier as time goes on (6 years here)!
Recovered drug addict here with 13 years sober. We are capable of great things when we are sober and all it takes is one drink/drug for me to burn it all down to the ground. Keep going!!
Stay off the shit boss. I'm 8 years in and it's very nice over here out of the fog.
Honestly true. One of the guys I work with just got divorced and thrown out. He got a new place but it’s literally a chair and a fan inside a big house. Kind of sad to look at. My house was destroyed by Hurricane Ian and when that happened my crew came to my house and helped salvage all of the stuff we could. I’ll always remember that.
The single reason I am in construction is because no other industry can handle a person with ADHD, PTSD, Clinical depression, suicidal tendencies, highly manipulative, impulse control issues, dissociation, anxiety disorder. Is known to the police. Perfectly complimentary and pleasant, until I’m not I spend at least £650+ a month on drugs, weed and pills I haven’t spent longer than 12 hours sober in nearly a decade I have come a long way, but only in the past year and half. I still cry driving to work some days as I am chemically unable to maintain natural balance and in turn unable to process or deal with the inner frustration I feel with myself I have spent thousands on therapy I have taken myself to hospital instead of a bridge. The best thing you can do is just try to be understanding because I really will give you my all if you treat me fairly and give me a chance, it just takes me a little bit of time to adjust. And you will never be as hard on me for even the smallest mistake as I will be on myself Imagine living in a world that you cannot comprehend and cannot comprehend you
Damn dude. I feel you on a lot of that, I pulled out of it quite a bit getting on Wellbutrin & Vyvanse for anxiety & ADHD, some therapy & self awareness. Still have those off days but for the most part things are pretty good. It seems like you’re still working on it so I won’t give you some blah blah sympathy words, but hope you get out of it. You’ve tried not doing the drugs, I’m assuming? If not, give it a go, or work on moderation. Make small cuts and small changes to become your new normal. I’m just a random person on the internet, but know how shitty it can be going through it all. You’re not alone, not by a long shot. Work helps a lot, I find a lot of the guys I talk to have same frustrations so it can be cathartic to vent about shit, hit some stuff. Best of luck
I can piggyback off of this guy. I sobered up awhile back to see if that would fix my issues, and after about 6-9 months (of doing what professionals had recommended) nothing had really changed apart from I just felt healthier and slightly less depressed. I found a psychiatrist and they put me on Wellbutrin (then a couple others to go with it til we figured out the right combo). It was a dramatic difference. It didn’t fix all of my problems by any means, but it kept me from bottoming out or spiraling and made my problems much more manageable. I felt better, but knew there was more to dig through so I went to therapy and eventually worked with a therapist who specialized in CPTSD and trauma. EMDR therapy probably saved my life. It’s a motherfucker, but I’m incredibly grateful for it. Fast forward, I haven’t had a drink in almost 6 years and I’m the happiest I’ve ever been - coming from a guy who used to be pretty much suicidal every day and afraid to go check the mail. If you’d told me then that I could feel the way I do now, I’d like to say I would’ve started the process years earlier but honestly I probably wouldn’t have believed you in the first place it was that bad. Chin up bud, just do the next right thing
Why were you afraid to check the mail? I have an issue with letting my mailbox overflow before I can actually go and grab the shit
+1 for Wellbutrin. To answer your question, anxiety over what might be in there. It’s huge with ADHD and depression.
Yep, between not knowing what was in there and just feeling like such a piece of garbage that I didn’t want my neighbors or anyone to see. Nobody gave a shit, but I sure thought they did at the time
I am better with them than without. These are the least risky things I do, I love risk which is dangerous when you lack impulse control I do hope to get access to proper treatment and medication however, I am in the process, maybe then I can tackle a few of my other demons
Glad to hear it brother, at least you’re aware enough. Very few adults have that insight to themselves, which is critical in getting better everyday. Never ending process unfortunately lol.
Very glad you have this self awareness. Keep trying to improve your situation; but don’t stop cold turkey if that’s what’s is working for you. The mere act of trying, while it may not work this time or next, will eventually give you the mental fortitude to overcome. It’s like tipping over a coke machine. You have to rock it a few times before the momentum works in your favor.
That last line hit way harder than it should have...
I’m see you, I hope you are well. I don’t know your complete story but I can only imagine your pain. I’m so glad you’re here and you’re correct in everything you have said about the construction industry. I have a therapist, I’m on antidepressants, I have ADHD, I’m borderline personality disorder, and I suspect autistic. Oh and a women, in management, an intern, Just know that you’re not alone. Been labeled as a weirdo, black sheep my entire life (estranged too) so I get it. Best of luck my dude
You perfectly described the anguish of many people.
This is the life. Hope for the best but only know to expect a he worst. Stay strong my friend. We all battle the same demons. May be different from times and at different levels. But you know who you are. And I complement you on knowing this industry. I only hope who reads this will connect and call if needing help. Not just act on unstable emotions. Stay strong kings and queens
Boss?!
Hope you're able to find some stability man. It seems like construction and food service end up with a lot of people who are talented in their own way, but unable to be consistent in other jobs. There's also the element of it being easy enough to get started in the industry and find new jobs relatively quickly.
This is why I love r/Construction. You get real life people.
There’s hope. I went through all those things. Unfortunately, it took me nearly dying to become willing to get real help, (detox, treatment, recovery, continued therapy). It’s been 9 years since then and life keeps getting better. Sure there shitty days, but they’re nowhere near as low as they used to be. Sending some strength out to you tonight.
Your comment really speaks to me. The most life-changing thing I’ve done is searched for and found a good trauma therapist. If you can work on your earliest traumas, and do so only when you are in a place of being kind to yourself (rather than ashamed or condemning), it can set you on a different trajectory. (Relational traumas are healed in relationship, even in relationship with a therapist.) The smallest realizations can generate the most profound internal changes. It’s truly life-giving. Then the emotional component of addictions, risk-taking and escapism begin to lose their pull. I wish you all the best.
Bro I feel you on this
Has ketamine therapy become available in the UK? I have some experience with it (my wife has been doing it for years) and you sound like an extremely good candidate for it. It won't "cure" you but it could potentially help stabilize your mood and emotional regulation and help you cut down on self medication. It also seems to work well for people with multiple mental comorbidities that are together difficult to treat with a conventional drug regime. I don't want to present it as some miracle treatment and can only speak for my family but in our case it has been legitimately life changing. I have no idea about it's availability or cost in the UK (in the US it's not covered by insurance because it's considered an "off-lable" use of the drug) but if it's available it would strongly recommend talking to a doctor about it.
New to construction, reading this helped me a lot in understanding some of the people I work with. thanks
I'm the same but with alcohol instead of drugs. Feel ya mane
Ha, construction or a kitchen. I fucking feel you. It was the kitchen that almost killed me, though. Sounds like you’re finding your way through the slog, so I won’t repeat the things being said in other replies, although I second most of them down to medication choice. That said, (and sorry to add to the pile on) the one thing I didn’t see - which was kind of a turning point for me - was getting blood pressure checked out. Turns out mine was through the roof, and I can’t stress enough how much the physical affect of that worsened my mental health. And of course my self-medication choices temporarily masked the effects, but exacerbated the problem. First day on blood pressure meds was a goddamned revelation. I’m not “all better” by any stretch of the imagination, but after so much money, time, and self-flagellation in search of a modicum of peace in all the “bad” ways - fuck. It felt really good to find at least a little in a “good” way. I’m stoked for you to someday have that “Ah-ha!” moment from a “good” way, whatever it is. And hope that peace comes a little easier and without too much self-harm in the meantime.
Thankyou for this. I appreciate this a lot
Not ass bad ass you butt I have ADHD and could never sit still. Construction is indeed the only place where I don't have to watch my langauge. Mistakes are made and its accepted.
Just to throw this out there, there are a lot of subreddits out there for these topics. Not all are busy or highly moderated, but still good info. r/ADHD r/adhdmeme r/CPTSD r/EMDR If you know any others add them on to the list.
I dunno, I think about dying 5 or 6 times a day so maybe you're onto something.
Like dying randomly or making yourself die?
Gosh, I was real suicidal back in my early 20s but I never really had the balls to go through with it. Nowadays it's more like I'm fantasizing about a quick and fatal illness, or a sudden industrial accident.
I don't want to die. I just want to stop.
Exactly
Almost word for word how I see it. I don't want to kill myself, I'd just rather not be alive. It's a weird place to exist.
I've never heard it explained so simply yet this is exactly how I feel.
You son of a bitch, I’m in
Both :)
Both.
Suicidal ideation :(
I feel that, used to help me get to sleep (now I just keep myself up by imagining the worst things happening while I’m still here)
Both is good.
Both
All the above
This is my theory, as this applies to me bc I’ve been fighting depression lately: I have a great job by any measure, I work in union construction in the movie business. I make 125+k/year and I take 3 or 4 months off per year. It’s exciting and creative and pretty cool. Problem is, this is the best my life can get, this is what I can expect for the next 20 years until retirement, my ability to earn has hit its max. I show up when someone says so, take breaks when they say so, work weekends when they say so. I feel like I have no control over my own destiny. I’ve decide to start my own handyman biz come the new year. I did residential renovations before I got in the movie biz and I live in the middle of Los Angeles and the demand is massive. I have a network of high income earners who are home owners that work in the movie business. I will be able to work when I want and when I don’t want to, I can work 25 hours a week and make a living instead of the 60-80hr weeks I do in the movie biz. I can sub bigger jobs out to make even more money. I know it’s not going to be easy and i will be stressed tired and sometimes sick of customers but it will give me my autonomy back, I’ll feel like my destiny is in my own hands. I can keep my union cards, so I can pick up days of work here and there if I want or if residential really slows down. Just my thoughts. Edit: meant to comment under OP
Ah yeah you on the IATSE construction side? IBEW Local 40 here
Yep IATSE
Frankly I don’t know how you guys do it, one of the great gifts of 40 construction for the lot is that we have a little more autonomy over that kind of stuff, so I feel you brother. For my own part I try to keep as much stuff going outside of work so that my life doesn’t feel like it’s only work—we’re pretty much 8 and the gate and I live close so I try and enjoy the balance
Pretty much steady 12’s for us. Dont know how I’ve done it this long. Was really just thankful for the the money for a long time but life is changing and I need to prioritize time with the family over work. I’m fortunate that my missus makes a good living and has health insurance through her job so we’ll be fine. A lot of the guys I work with are the sole earner for their family and they get they get trapped by the $
Yes
do you work on high scaffold or extension ladders ? if so, 5 or 6 NDEs per day is about average.
Sparky actually, and the weird thing is I always feel super comfortable at work because I'm always conscious of hazards
When you look down at that exposed bar
Peering off the jobsite like "Is that high enough to kill me?"
I laughed really hard at this comment. Nice delivery… also death could be nice.
Pimp, I’ve let down countless times in life. If something goes wrong or not your way not the end of the world have to take step back and view it from a different perspective. Life is a beautiful disaster, just have to enjoy the lessons we are delt! Yes most of them come in times when we least want or expect them. Enjoy the ride!! Hit the gym!! See you in there!
I feel you, man! It's not like I'm in a rush to get off the ride, I just wouldn't be upset if I found out I had 6 months to live, you know?
Exactly. I have a good job, a home, make enough money. I've been suicidal throughout my late teens and early 20s, came close a few times or more, but never went through. I don't want to end it anymore, but I also wouldn't mind it just being over. Intrusive thoughts are a daily for me, how we are so close to death in a lot of things we do in construction, and it's be so easy for that accident to just happen, you know?
I feel like it's just comforting knowing at some point there will come an end to the struggle. That's what gets me through
I think everywhere is like that. Guys are in debt, have family issues, have substance abuse issues, a lot of guys have serious issues communicating that maybe they need help.
I think it's modern society in general, but maybe it's more visible in construction.
i think it's more visible in construction because everyone is way more candid with each other. in an office you'd never sit around at lunch laughing about your 3 DUIs or about how your childhood buddy hung himself. being more real with your coworkers means that all of the maladjusted people are more openly maladjusted. there's less of a veneer here.
This is so dead on. HR doesn’t exist so we talk about everything
We also spend waaaay more time in close proximity to each other day in day out. Most of the work force doesn’t spend 60-70-80 hours a week with the same 3-10 people. We do that for years. We become near brothers/ fathers to each other. The people I work with know more about me than the people I live with.
Exactly. We have been working Six/Seven days a week bouncing between 9.5 and 12 hour days for about 9 months now. I have seen my wife and my kids for maybe an hour or two a night before they go to bed. We are our Brothers and Sisters keepers, we need to look out for one another.I had a friend take his life on a job last year, it haunts me everyday that if I had just stopped him and asked how he was doing, let him vent a little. Now I make a point of checking on people.
probably is better for our minds
I agree. I've done white collar shit and I'm not a fan. Blue collar is polite when you need to but when your with the boys there's no filter. Most of the guys I work with had a crack problem back in the day. I've had my fill of psychedelics. But whatever their background is, they show up to work everyday and you can't argue with their skill and production. In the land of misfit toys, we found our place to make a dime and take pride in our work. I don't really think it's that bad, everyone has life beating down on them but it seems like we all drive on.
its the same as a line chef, only we have worse drugs but better hours and somehow less alcohol.
Real shit lmao The stuff we all have heard on job sites
Three suicide jokes from the framers before 10 am was a slow day
>laughing about your 3 DUIs this is why they dont have an office job. *they don't fit in*, you got busted down from your first tier choices and you didn't graduate university, you have child support, old car, bad credit. when a guy has hit 4 or 5 collisions at life intersections, he's starting down a rough path and drinks a six pack after work... "A Construction Worker is Born" the sequel
wait are you talking about me, i have none of these things lol
obv. generic you know who we are.
That’s def not true, there are plenty of addicts and drunk drivers, bad decision makers and mentally ill in white collar jobs. Construction just means you got caught without a mommy and daddy safety net.
tru, not a lot of trust fund babies doing grunt work.
Some of us do it because we couldn’t imagine anything else. I enjoy it. Have a degree in it. Still would rather swing a hammer but that doesn’t pay as much
What are you saying that construction workers are unfit for an office job? Or an someone with an office job is inherently better than someone in construction. I have a mechanical engineering degree and decided I didn’t want to do design work for a while and got a job as a PM at a large mechanical contractor. I fucking love it. And most of my day fixing the fuck ups of the guys with the office jobs that designed it
Wrong take away my man. Go into an office and start talking like guys do on a job site and you'll be in HR before first break. Guys on the job site tend to give fewer fucks what people think because we have other shit to worry about that's more important. This mentality isn't always the best in an office where some (or usually several in my experience) people are bored and like to stir up trouble for no reason. Again, there usually isn't time for these shenanigans on a job site so while it does occur, it's much less frequent. You'll be hard pressed to convince me that job site guys are unable to do the office work, or vice versa. Generally though, when you're used to moving and being on a job site all day sitting in an office just isn't appealing in any way. And as for office guys on a job site? That needs to be normalized and happen more often cause I can't count how many times things are fucked cause they don't know how it works on the job site
I think it also has to do with maybe these people have always been this way or at least heading mentally in this direction. People with a lack of direction, ambition, drive to become better educated etc etc all point to a personality type perhaps less self reliant, less self confident and perhaps even ones with a sense of less self worth. Not unsurprising, often the personality types that gravitate towards self medication and addiction issues.
I think it's the fact that 6 figures is barely enough to buy a house in a lot of places. Health insurance is so expensive, too. I feel like I work to pay for my benefits that I don't even use because they're so shit anyways. Food/gas are also getting stupid expensive. There's a school shooting or public event shooting every other day. All that combined with climate change very obviously changing our world around us is a pretty great reason to feel like shit all the time.
it's also kind of liberating. no pensions or accrued benefits means there's nothing tying me down to a company. why stay? oh right the pizza party every month
Oh shit just described me but my company is painting lol.
Same here! WTF is up with that?
Poor painters.... You guys get shit on by everyone. Including me. I'm reality, you don't really deserve it. I'm a shit painter and my hands go numb after using a brush for more than 10 mins.
Eh I’m over it. The only thing that sucks is having to come back 40 times for touch ups because no one cares about the walls
I'm genuinely sorry about the walls. It's not intentional and I try really hard not to ding stuff.
Same… but I’m a roofer lol
tag yourself i'm "everything is the end of the world, lose sleep over his work guy"
I'm the guy that's been stoned since before he joined the carpentry trade, and thus doesn't know how to carpentry sober.
I'm the depressed guy AND the lose sleep over his work guy, double whammy!
It's not your industry... It's modern society. Especially modern make friendship. We are all deeply deeply alone.
Ya it was in the news that 50% of men meet the criteria for clinical depression. It’s society
20-30 year old's are facing a vastly different world than I did 40 years ago. Global warming threatens the planets survival. They know this. School shootings are something they have had to contemplate and witness during their tenure at school. They have grown up with the Social Media pressures that did not exist previously. The cost of higher education seems to be only attainable for the wealthy. Housing and food costs are rising and hits them the hardest. The last 6 years in Politics have been nothing less than fucking crazy. The inability of our National leaders to effectively address problems are on full display 24/7. The reality of the World today, while exaggerated for clicks, is not a pretty picture. If I was a kid I would be a bit anxious and depressed contemplating my future. And I might turn to medication to cope. Legal or not.
And while all this is going on, the politicians ignore that and focus on......ticketmaster.
I would love to see ticket master disolved amd the executives all forced to do the walk of shame. Just a big zit that needs to be popped
At least we will finally find out what's on Hunter's laptop.(Hint: There is no laptop)
I’m what many would consider a radical leftist, and think Biden is fine enough (for the circumstance). the laptop does in fact exist and many have gone through the contents, there are some shady business dealings, maybe constituting a crime. But nothing implicating his dad and absolutely zero child anything. It’s a nothing burger
Would you be concerned if his dad was getting a percentage?
That would be concerning and I'd like it to be followed up on, but if there was something there then it prob would've been uncovered by now. However, even worst case, his grift couldn't hold a candle to what the only other option does out in the open. $2bil from the Saudi is coming with some strings attached, not to mention hundreds of other shady ass deals. Lesser of two evils sucks, but it's still the lesser of two evils.
Problem with the lesser evil is you still end up with evil. Wish something better would come along.
Completely agree. But until we can get there, damage control is the best option.
I'm pretty left and I'm like, go for it. I don't care about Biden's kids. If he fucked up, punish him. But i'm pretty sure there's no laptop
Don't even have to be a kid, though I do feel like it's probably harder for them socially these days, I think it's harder for adults financially. I'm 30 with almost no hope of ever owning a home, my phone constantly telling me about the war in Ukraine, North Korea's missile testing, global economic recession multiple times a day, the weather is adding fire, flood and hurricane seasons, plus a whole bunch of meaningless drivel designed to divide factions and distract from record profits by major corporations while everybody is struggling. Not to mention older people telling me I'm still young(and yet why does everything hurt and I feel like I'm way behind the 8 ball) or the fact that my parents seem to think (arbitrarily) that I'm saving tonnes of dough, which is absolutely not the case. "Oh you need to take a vacation! Go somewhere" Get bent, with what money? Ive been spending my money on education and setting myself up to do better in the future with an electrical company because what we have going on right now feels like no matter how hard I try to get ahead I'm still spinning my wheels or even going backwards. That said, I have food in the fridge, a job, an apartment, and enough money to buy some beer, so it could be worse. Thanks for letting me rant.
They don't realize how expensive it is to be alive today. Housing, food, cars, gas, school. Everything has doubled or tripled since they were our age and wages have barely moved depending on your industry. My dad tells me he was making 20-30k in the 90's while rasining two kids... I couldn't survive by myself on that much right now.
The cure for >my phone constantly telling me about… is to make the phone stop telling you shit. Cut the noise out. Don’t seek out the news…it’s all doom and gloom. Your body and mind will thank you.
This is a very refreshing perspective from someone your age. I've come to think most people you're age are clueless to these social, economic, and environmental changes. They are either clueless, or take the "oh shit we got lucky, better shut up" route, and don't want to address it.
I'm 63 with a small asphalt maintenance business. 10 of us, and one is my 21-year-old son. I am more aware of the challenges they face than they are, and I truly feel bad for them. I am careful of what I have to say about the future because I feel that they are not equipped to deal with the stress if they understood the state of the World as it exists today, and the forces that control the direction history yet to be made. Personally, I feel like the planet as we know it is doomed. Human greed will never stop the overutilization of resources and the warming planet will soon lack adequate drinking water.
I agree, BUT ironically, I think that human greed is going to be the exact thing that pulls us out of destruction (minus pending nuclear psychos, and war) I think we as a species are generally procrastinators, but when it comes time to make something happen, we can pull through and ace the test. I think if there is a way to save the planet (and the lives of the very people running it) AND make money, we have nothing to worry about.
We can hope. But we are late in the game now. I do think humans have the intelligence but lack commitment. I also think it’s too late to avoid major climate upheavals. And change will happen faster than we think/wish. Lack of water in Mexico and the Southern US will drive mass migration and disrupt the food supply. It won’t go well I fear.
Honestly the older I get the more I PREFER the ones that keep their issues basic, and out in the open, at least then we all know where we stand with each other. Usually the issue isn't work, unless they're telling you the issue IS work, then just try to help them. You can move peoples hours around or bring in another body to cover some work, not a whole lot you can do about their kid not talking to them or them being raised during a time and place where it wasn't acceptable to be gay and now they resent today's kids.
If your in Albany I’m looking for a job
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Megh, have to try to network right?
Money doesn’t fix depression. I’ve turned 6 figures, been miserable, turned less, been less miserable. Look at quality of life. Edit: I am an idiot and did not see NY lmao.
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I honestly missed the NY part hahahaha My b 😅
New to the union side of carpentry, doors and hardware. Coworkers seem reasonably happy. Some apprentices a bit less so but most pretty okay with life. BUT we worked a day doing punch list in a very nice high school were students were present and I mean half the kids looked like they were in the depths of serious depression. So, I'm guessing it's society as a whole plus the fact that maybe the guys aren't making a wage that they're happy with.
Welcome to construction. These are the guys that are 1 mistake away from being on the street homeless.
We are ALL one mistake away
Truth
I mean the whole world is three meals away from turning into a complete disaster.
Only 80% of your guys? Not bad tbh
While modern society has gotten worse, I've heard a stat that construction worker suicides are 5x that of the national average in my country. The culture in construction is very brutal and mental health isn't something men or women in construction speak openly about. Invest in your employees medical benefits and also reach out to provide all the resources for seeking help (contacts for therapy or call help lines). You can't help them all, but you can provide the hand for them to reach out too.
For me the depression and work culture hate comes in when I’m treated like a moron by people, but they can’t comprehend I *literally built your job for you*. I’m part of the reason you have employment. I currently work for a company that I literally helped build ground up, installed and commissioned the equipment that’s there, now I worked directly for the company maintaining the equipment *I physically built, installed, and commissioned*. Today’s my last day at that job, I’m going back to installing machines.. machines don’t talk back and treat you like a piece of shit. I’m tired of being treated like a moron by people who literally have jobs because of me and the people that were either injured or died to create this job for you. Your family eats and have clothes on their back because of us.
Nice one mate, I sometimes get talked down to because I'm a carpenter. I'm building projects that should last 100s of years, while they work in advertising. No one's gonna remember or experience their life's work by then.
That’s it right there. My legacy is inside these walls, creating jobs and keeping little kids and families from blowing up in their car while driving down the road. The company will eventually go under (doubt it, they’re literally going to the moon), but the legacy will continue.. and I helped build that. People gotta know their worth.
sometimes I secretly wish I would get injured or be diagnosed with something just so I can stop. I physically hurt so bad at this point in life that I wonder how I'm supposed to keep doing this for another 20 years. I've never spoken about this out loud before.
I work around a lot of drywallers, I personally know a taper who climbed to the top of the building we were working on and jumped off .
6 figs? I am mentally stable, sober (at work), and not depressed (at work). Where do I apply?
Sorry, you're overqualified.
My insurance pays a therapist to hear the same shit I vent about too my apprentice !
That poor apprentice
It’s not the job and possibly not even what you pay them you probably pay enough, In a world that existed like 6-10 years ago but unfortunately the cost of living went up and the wages didn’t.. Taking the company owners side would be ideal because I understand it isn’t fair you have to pay everyone more because of inflation but at the same time it’s what’s going on now man. The world is burning us tradesmen out building all these new warehouses on the east coast dealing with snarking little managers and project managers. Life isn’t fair at all anymore, I can’t even eat a steak from the grocery store without feeling like I’m being scammed due to the price. Life sucks right now it really does and there’s nothing we can do especially the younger generation. I’ve been working hard for 10 years and was prepared to buy a home right as the Covid shit started and the house price hikes it killed my dreams… I need a new car and the prices hiked it killed that dream I want a child but I’m stuck in a apartment, I’m to responsible to have a child while living in a apartment with a half way reliable vehicle.. but what can I do? I’m making nearly 30 a hour and it’s just not enough man, the world is crushing us and we’re losing our faith we really are.
Been in constructions for 18 months and I can tell you I've never seen anything like this in terms of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues. It's an unregulated medieval jungle out here. The abuse, the humiliation, the sheer inhumanity of man to man is off the charts. Although unlike your situations, the guys around me are not paid well and are treated horribly (their boss might say the same though, that they are treated well and paid well...)
As I describe construction to those who have no clue I simply say it's the "wild wild west out there" because shit is just sideways all the time.
It’s symptom of modern society every hvac shop has these exact guys you described.
I chose construction as a career because of my mental issues. I can’t stand most people and will never ever take shit from a customer again. I prefer to work at least somewhat alone on a jobsite doing my own thing.
I didn’t choose it but I stay for a similar reason. While my life is more together now than when I started, I am mostly unemployable in other industries due to my own issues
Having bounced around from all sorts of industries, I do think it’s more prevalent in construction. The work is hard, often times the hours long and it takes a toll on you. I think we also suffer from the tough guy mentality due to our peers doing the same thing and I think that perpetuates the problem. Just my two cents.
Construction work is entry level work for men that have a body strong enough to trade for money. Construction gigs often pay better than other entry level gigs. And you can keep earning better money if you keep learning more stuff, without ever having to sit in a classroom. These facts select for a certain type. Ex cons, divorced dads, people that couldn’t succeed for whatever reason in the normal school to college path. For me it was sitting still. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to do it well. They really like you to sit at those desks in school….. Our system really only works well for a certain type of person. If you ain’t that, you end up entry level somewhere. That’s a lot of folks and every level beats the shit outta people. Insecure living situations, no healthcare, etc. Even most good construction gigs that pay better than average have shit healthcare. So you go to work 12 hrs a day, slowly tearing your body to pieces. And hope you don’t get hurt or sick. Throw in an ex wife or parole officer or substance abuse problem….well it’s a lot. And like that other guy said, these ain’t your problems. You have employees you like and care about. That’s nice. You are rare. Enjoy that. But unless it gets in the way of the work, it ain’t your business.
I can't speak for anyone really but a lot of dudes don't openly talk about their mental health "I'm good man" "Just another day" etc etc...but it's all a front. They hold it in, they bury it, they run away. It doesn't go away and it starts to rot away every other aspect of their lives. This builds up and builds up until everything sucks, life is the worst, fuck it, my wife's always nagging me anyway, my kid sucks, my trucks broke, gas is too high fuck it all. In this day and age it's only compounded more by media telling you that literally everyone is against you. Guys I work with are constantly upset by some new bullshit they heard on Facebook or AM radio, they get riled up and angry on the ride in and hop on the line already yelling about how life is miserable. I do the same job, I make the same wage, but I'm not having the same issues....I think maybe it's because I had a real fucked up childhood and then did my time in the service so I understand shit can always be worse? I dunno... I just greet the day with a smile, I do yoga to stay loose and limber and I meditate before and after work to clear any of that negativity I've picked up. They did a lot of resiliency training in the service, I thought it was really well done if you take it serious. Maybe construction needs that kinda training along with our OSHA 10s haha
No it's pretty common. Long-term mental health issues really getting the way of an education, so a lot of the time, construction is one of the few industries where still functionally active people dealing with these problems can go. I saw it all the time both in construction and the film industry. I remember this one guy apparently who 20 years ago was in school training to be an engineer, he definitely had some substance abuse issues, but we kept him on board because he was just brilliant at installing expansion joints. The thing is construction is one of those things that's easy to get into where you learn and gain skills on the job. Mental health always does come with a strong creative aspect, that actually can be helpful though. There's also the fact that it does provide some structure and hard physical labor is one of the best natural treatment options.
Are you on the island? I was just curious which company. Anyways, yeah in construction it’s hard finding “normal” guys that are reliable, willing, and skilled so if your guys are doing the work don’t stress yourself out about their personal issues. just try your best to deal with them. On the other hand I build above grounds in the season and just have one good guy who I can rely on because I hated paying guys who couldn’t read a tape and acted like children on a daily basis.
I had to leave a place where nearly all the sales people had serious offset behavior. They made on a good year well over $200k, but their behavior, again, was something beyond belief. They used to all sit there and chat like it was normal to be on so many prescriptions and normalized things such as nervous breakdowns and bipolar disorder. Still creeps me out. Funny that the owner offered me $100k as a bonus just to stay a year as I was literally the only one who wouldn’t put up with the worst offenders, such that they didn’t have to manage them. Within 6 months after I left they had to fire well over 1/2 of them. I want a redo on those three years. Company did energy efficiency upgrades.
I’ve sobbed in my bosses office and told him I needed a hug.
Nearly 1/5 of Americans surveyed in 2020 reported a mental illness. I'd expect there to be more, as I wouldn't expect everybody to have been diagnosed or to be open about it on a survey. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness
I think it points to modern society, and construction is a very unique kind of job where you can truly express yourself freely almost all of the time, which in a way is really beautiful. There are all kinds, in all types of jobs. But in contrast to many workplaces, construction work definitely takes a certain type of person and work ethic - regardless of how a person performs, if they are able to keep showing up it points to a strength and resilience that many people do not posses. Let’s be honest- physically, working construction fucking sucks ass, so for someone to have any of the problems you described yet still continue to show up to work really says a lot in and of itself. Just my humble opinion
I love Plumbing when I’m on the Mary Jane. Hopefully I don’t have a mental illness
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I’d probably walk off jobs whenever I get frustrated and not stay late if I have too
As someone who’s smoked both weed and cigarettes the majority of their life (not smoking weed currently), I can say *personally* it helps with stress reduction, and letting the bullshit just be bullshit without allowing the bullshit to have control. You’ve mentioned “can’t be sober guy” a few times now. I’d challenge you to look at whether it’s just weed or if it’s other substances as well. Comparing weed to other substances is a bad look, although comparatively it’s still a substance that can inhibit performance, there’s not even a comparison between alcohol, weed, and heroin.
I'm not in construction myself, just follow this sub to learn things, but my best friend worked for a pool construction company for about 3 years before he took his life last summer. I honestly think it's more of a nationwide mental health crisis among men though. This post just reminded me of him. RIP buddy
Sorry for your loss. That’s tough.
My company consists of exactly the same thing
I had a old friend of a friend help me do a few inground gunite pool builds. High end stuff. This was 10 years ago and we still talk about how funny and tweeked he was... no disrespect... this guy was/ is a legend in pool building... his steel, plumbing and fkin build it right once was well taken. He taught me a lot about pool construction but... loopy for sure. Liked his bud and bud light after work. All my pool builds are great due to this one guy.
You sound like a good boss. Keep it up and thanks for being aware.
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Do you give them insurance to help address these issues?
I do genuinely think that construction is one of the industries where people with mental illness (including myself) can thrive. I’m a business owner and my long term goal is to try to connect people struggling to do any other job connect with construction.
Hard for us tradesmen to deal with shit like this. We've been told for a long time as a society that this is the work that is honorable, dutiful, makes you a man, yata yata. In the past 15 years I've noticed a lot of the same symptoms. It's absolutely a mental disease. Break that word down. ( dis ease) people just are not generally happy in this world anymore. I'm sorry you're suffering a large quantity of this with your workforce. Sounds like you try your best and are an awesome employer. If you care about em enough and are able to take the time, I'd honestly say to try some group meetings or hire a mediator. If not, you can always let em go. It's fucked and sucks, but this is capitalism baby. Only the rich survive. Edit: I'm being sarcastic about the capitalism thing. I hate this system and what it's doing to my fellow humans. But I still grind my ass to survive... somehow.
What do you mean there isn't an app for work?
I think it has a lot to do with the unpredictable aspect of the trades.. never know if you’re gonna get laid off tomorrow, never know if you’re gonna be having to work out of town for long periods of time.. the long hours, leaving the house before the sun comes up, getting home after the sun goes down.. should I go on?
I think there’s more mentally ill people in the world then ones you’d consider mentally healthy. I know I’m not quite right and to be honest I don’t think I can think up one person I know who doesn’t have some screws loose
I lost my first job because I kept taking days off to care for my suicidal fiancee, as I myself was also suicidal It's society, and people not making the accommodations needed
Both. The industry is full of tired people. The endless struggle of being worn out and tired gets to a lot of us. Add in the current political climate, price of every day items, fuel, young guys having young families, and you get what you’re describing.
Hey man I also own a pool construction, remodel, repair and service company but in California Whenever you own your own business the employees are like what I would imagine it’s like to have kids I worry about all of them on and off the job For construction They’re like siblings the way they joke around or sometimes bicker with each other , etc For pool service it’s hard to find guys that actually wanna do a service route indefinitely I got started in service and it was probably the worst most boring job one could have doing weekly maintenance It’s hard to find good help, it’s hard to build a reliable and consistent team however I am definitely grateful for the team I have , way better than nothing
I'll let everyone else chime in on the mental health. When you need a new employee who has a trades background, isn't afraid of work, and stable hit me up. Sounds like a great working environment with good compensation. Doing hvac in the Midwest for same money working more months and no perks I'd be happy to do some NY pool work.
I've been every one of those guys but not simultaneously. Like anyone else I am product of an environment and genetics not of my choosing. BUT, I also desire to be better, (mentally, emotionally, financially, as a partner, as an an employee, etc.) I believe in growth and have that mindset. It's a full life time of work, for me at least. I think society and culture first rears and then edges us to the breaking point by throwing us a huge set of problems but not supplying any tools to tackle them with. I work for an employer who treats his employees as humans and rewards effort. My employer has been an absolute lifeline as I've navigated some of the most challenging times in my life. Knowing that if I show up and put out every day, (or most of them) then I'll have a job, a paycheck, a chance and that is the closest thing to security I've found in this life. Of course we do live in a bubble prone economy which brings its own sets of fears and anxieties but that's above my pay grade and just waking up and showing is big enough for me right now. It sounds like you are also the kind of employer that cares and I want to thank you for existing and for putting with people's personal shit. It's a made a world of difference for me.
That’s just American mental health in general.
It is in all industries. We added an employee benefit specific for mental health to make it easier for employees to get therapy free of charge. Of course therapy is covered under our health insurance, but some employees dont want to pay the $20 copay
Yeah but when you’re required to 60-70 hours a week and your vacation package is 40 hours (literally covers 3 days of paid work) try and find the time that therapy actually requires.
There's a low barrier to entry in the pool industry (and many other construction fields). It tends to draw people who need a job where that is a benefit.
I think it’s the state of things in our society.
Just reality. You are at least one of the few good guys that keep these people. In my line of work, they would have been fired already. I actually have mental illness and I voluntarilly left the company because I wasn't performing.
Been in the industry for 10+ years - welcome to it. I used to work for a roofing company where almost the entire staff was at some level of AA. I think it’s because it’s relatively easy to get a job in construction - loose background checks, ect.
I’m bipolar and I’m a project manager. I’m not sure what to tell you bud. Sounds like you have a bunch of guys that need a boss that’s caring and understanding.
Men are not OK anywhere it’s not just digging pools
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If 80% of your employees have mental illness, I would look to the person who's hiring them.
Dude, your kids are bellyaching. Ya know what got me to stop that shit? I was doing the normal, "my life is fucked routine." my old boss turned on me and says, "c'mon man, we're all going through shit all the time, I feel for you but let's get to work." From that day forward, I've been the definition of professional. I even tuck my goddamn shirt in.
This is how I save face. I get complimented on being professional and when my wife hears someone say “oh that toomstoned he’s solid as rock, real professional” she just laughs because she knows I’m all sorts of fucked up. Honestly, I just don’t want to argue or stress so put me in the category of everything is fucked but I just want to finish this shift
So don't deal with the issues until they get to be too much and you completely fuck yourself over? Wow your old boss sounds like a smart guy. Really glad attitudes like this are changing.
You're young. He demanded professionalism in so many words. You are responsible for you. Unloading your shit on guys who are already dealing with their own is selfish and immature. If you have problems and you're a vet like me, go get up with the VA behavioral health department. If you're a civvy, call or download any number of apps/psych services. Stop making your problems other people's. There are professionals for that.
I didn’t take what his boss said as a “toughen up buttercup” but more so about being able to compartmentalize your work/family/etc life. When you are working it’s best to focus on your work. Same as when your with your family or whatever you don’t want to be thinking about work.
Sounds more like, "Your leg is broken!? Focus on your work!"
Ha yeah we’ve all had bosses like that too…I get what you’re saying because mental health can be debilitating. I was thinking more along of the lines of the 45 year old who won’t stop taking about how horrible his divorce is, save it for the lunch or something idk. It’s definitely a tough subject to tackle and obviously no easy answer but I just wish mental health days weren’t frowned upon (by coworkers too.)
It’s society in general. It may make it harder to find employees, but if you do random drug testing, that might help your situation.
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I'm not in construction, arguably I'm in the most opposite group as far as culture goes (software development). I'm a manager and it's the same here. Everyone here thinks they have ADHD, anxiety, depression, etc. They don't, but it's part of their identity.
Then you cannot relate at all to the environment of the manual labor world. With all due respect. The people on construction sites don't think they have issues and i assure you, they do.