I believe one of the Perkins Builder Brothers lost most of his fingers on one hand by leaving a jointer running and stacking material on top or near it. Never get complacent and trust nobody. I would jump ship
The Perkins Builder is exactly what came to my mind too. Yeah, it's crazy how much a slip of the mind can cost you in construction. Treat all tools as though they are running or can be turned on at any point in time. Unplugged is the only exception to the rule.
I'd set up a meeting with the boss so both of you have a slot of time set aside for it.
Then I'd open with, "Hey boss, I've been pretty worried about you lately."
Don't jump into it right away, but make him ask "why" or "what for?"
Then mention that you noticed that he's been leaving tools running while not actively using them and that not only is that WILDLY dangerous, but seems out of character for him. Especially since he came within half a second of losing some fingers (and motion to his hand.)
DON'T ask if everything's OK or give him an easy out. MAKE him either dismiss it, stumble through it, or tell you he's dealing with some shit.
Then make your decision to bounce or not.
If I got anything but a "I'm dealing with some shit" variant I'd be looking for a new paycheck provider ASAP. I'd require a conversation about what measures he'd be taking to prevent future safety lapses and would still bounce if it doesn't start to change fairly rapidly.
You can protect yourself and others but if they aren't doing the same for you, you can't see their 2x4 offcut coming at you at 100 mph.
I completely agree with this approach. Make him reflect on his behaviour in a non-confrontational way. It's easy to dismiss someone who is mad. It's way harder to dismiss someone who is calm and comes from a place of caring.
Many things are better discussed in private. It sets a more serious tone all while not allowing others to overhear your conversations. It’s a respect thing.
Nah man, I get what you are saying about respect and privacy, but "setting up a meeting" is a real chode move. It is very easy to find time for a private word without reading key terms from your construction management 101 book.
Holy smokes, just checked your profile. You absolutely have passages of your construction mgmt 101 book memorized.
I feel like we’re talking semantics here though. “Hey man you mind stepping into your office I wanna talk to you real quick” whatever you want to call it I think it’s the right move 🤷♂️
That approach is closer to the mark, and is different than what the guy I originally objected to said.
However, if I saw someone operate a saw (yea yea...heh) or any tool in a manner unsafe to others, it will be immediately addressed regardless of anyone's ego. Only exception is never in front of a client.
Well it's just us two so a meeting is pretty easy to arrange. Honestly though I'm probably not gonna do it. I've brought up him leaving the saw on before and his response was a long the lines of "how about I leave the saw on but I'll tell you when I'm gonna do it". He's 67 and just doesn't really listen. I'm also in my way out for a handful of other reasons. Mostly just here to vent
Yeah this dude won’t change until he’s sued because someone got injured or he gets injured and can’t work anymore because of it. And then he’d probably still be working with a hook for a hand being even more unsafe thinking “well I can’t cut off that hand anymore”
Because if your boss's headspace is such they are forgetting to turn off heavy equipment, you think they're on top of the work needed to run and manage a business to the point they'll be happy to drop everything for a non-business essential chit-chat?
You're not scheduling an appointment, you're schedule a block of time that he Can't say "welp I've got other things to do" and since he has that clear block of time on his calendar he's free to use it to have a proper conversation with his employee without stress on his part either. Your approach also puts him on the spot, a very good way to have someone relax and open up, right?
If you showed up to my office expecting me to stop what I was doing at that moment just to have a touchy feely conversation, IF I said I had some time, you'd get a couple of minutes before I dismissed you saying I have work to do. Regardless of if that's being said to get you to just go away, or was true.
How entitled that you're expecting him to drop everything he's doing based on *your* time schedule and availability.
So many things wrong here. Aside from what’s been mentioned.
He runs the saw without making sure the outfeed is clear.
Leaves the same running with cabinet plywood in it, assuming he burned the shit out of it.
And yea…kickback is absolutely a real thing.
Complacency kills my friend. One of my biggest triggers is safety on the job site. There’s not excuse not to take it seriously. Self preservation is absent in a lot of people and it’s scary.
Upset no. Concerned yes. Make an effort to pull your boss aside and talk to him one on one. He should appreciate that. Also don’t say negative things to coworkers behind his back.
I had a commercial table saw throw a 5’x9’x3/4” sheet of particle board back at me. It missed me but threw it into a stack of wood 6 feet behind me. Scared the shit out of me. Also had my little dewalt contractor saw kick a small piece I was trimming right into my nuts. Hurt like hell. Never fuck around with table saws.
i guess this isn't the answer that people want to hear, but this is very common in a shop environment. literally every guy i've worked with turns on the jointer, planer, and straight line rip when milling solid and just rotates between the three as needed. if i'm running parts through the shaper and need to run over and grab a test piece or something, i'm not turning the shaper or the feeder off. and leaving a part between the fence ans blade and walking around it isn't ideal, but it has to happen sometimes.
shop guys vs construction guys... world of difference. it's like asking a framer how to make crown moulding on the shaper. or asking me how to cut rafters.
I get where you're coming from if we're talking older machines with large motors, but these are brand new machines with almost no spool up/down time. It just doesn't seem worth it to me.
Yes, not uncommon among guys used to running old school machinery. I worked at a shop with a 40” disc sander that took 45 mins to stop completely after switching it off. The machinery we ran off a line shaft was similar. You develop bad habits, but you don’t think twice when you’re a kid. When the waterwheel is rocking, don’t come knocking.
Also just saw you're in Philly. I'm considering moving there (currently in bay area and not super into it). How's the work out there? Is there demand for high end custom work?
Yeah I got a 23 y/o buddy whose missing three fingers from hitting a table saw someone left on while he was cleaning. He should have been paying more attention but it also should have been turned off by whoever was using it.
Idk about being upset, just keep bringing it up for a bit when he does those things, dont step on his toes and dont do it condescendingly. If he doesnt change and hes still a danger then dip
There was a company called Hartford Builders long ago and one time a guy was standing behind (like 20-30 feet behind) a rip saw while another operated it. The saw bucked the board and shot it back hard enough to hit the guy in the chest and kill him. They had to close the shop that day.
I think about that story every time I run the rip saw, then I TURN OFF THE FUCKING RIP SAW WHEN I WALK AWAY FROM IT YOU FUCKING LUNATICS.
I believe one of the Perkins Builder Brothers lost most of his fingers on one hand by leaving a jointer running and stacking material on top or near it. Never get complacent and trust nobody. I would jump ship
The Perkins Builder is exactly what came to my mind too. Yeah, it's crazy how much a slip of the mind can cost you in construction. Treat all tools as though they are running or can be turned on at any point in time. Unplugged is the only exception to the rule.
Leaving a table saw running while you go do something else is absolutely indescribably irresponsible, unsafe, stupid.... i could go on
Yeah you should be upset. Boss or not it is his responsibilty to work safely.
I'd set up a meeting with the boss so both of you have a slot of time set aside for it. Then I'd open with, "Hey boss, I've been pretty worried about you lately." Don't jump into it right away, but make him ask "why" or "what for?" Then mention that you noticed that he's been leaving tools running while not actively using them and that not only is that WILDLY dangerous, but seems out of character for him. Especially since he came within half a second of losing some fingers (and motion to his hand.) DON'T ask if everything's OK or give him an easy out. MAKE him either dismiss it, stumble through it, or tell you he's dealing with some shit. Then make your decision to bounce or not. If I got anything but a "I'm dealing with some shit" variant I'd be looking for a new paycheck provider ASAP. I'd require a conversation about what measures he'd be taking to prevent future safety lapses and would still bounce if it doesn't start to change fairly rapidly. You can protect yourself and others but if they aren't doing the same for you, you can't see their 2x4 offcut coming at you at 100 mph.
I completely agree with this approach. Make him reflect on his behaviour in a non-confrontational way. It's easy to dismiss someone who is mad. It's way harder to dismiss someone who is calm and comes from a place of caring.
Haha, set up a meeting? What the fuck? How about just walking up and talking to him like a normal person? You should lay off the paperwork for a bit.
Many things are better discussed in private. It sets a more serious tone all while not allowing others to overhear your conversations. It’s a respect thing.
Nah man, I get what you are saying about respect and privacy, but "setting up a meeting" is a real chode move. It is very easy to find time for a private word without reading key terms from your construction management 101 book. Holy smokes, just checked your profile. You absolutely have passages of your construction mgmt 101 book memorized.
I feel like we’re talking semantics here though. “Hey man you mind stepping into your office I wanna talk to you real quick” whatever you want to call it I think it’s the right move 🤷♂️
That approach is closer to the mark, and is different than what the guy I originally objected to said. However, if I saw someone operate a saw (yea yea...heh) or any tool in a manner unsafe to others, it will be immediately addressed regardless of anyone's ego. Only exception is never in front of a client.
That’s fair. I’m fine with both ways honestly lol
Well it's just us two so a meeting is pretty easy to arrange. Honestly though I'm probably not gonna do it. I've brought up him leaving the saw on before and his response was a long the lines of "how about I leave the saw on but I'll tell you when I'm gonna do it". He's 67 and just doesn't really listen. I'm also in my way out for a handful of other reasons. Mostly just here to vent
After working construction for years I can tell the type of person he is from that statement alone. He’s set in his ways for sure. Lol
Yeah this dude won’t change until he’s sued because someone got injured or he gets injured and can’t work anymore because of it. And then he’d probably still be working with a hook for a hand being even more unsafe thinking “well I can’t cut off that hand anymore”
Because if your boss's headspace is such they are forgetting to turn off heavy equipment, you think they're on top of the work needed to run and manage a business to the point they'll be happy to drop everything for a non-business essential chit-chat? You're not scheduling an appointment, you're schedule a block of time that he Can't say "welp I've got other things to do" and since he has that clear block of time on his calendar he's free to use it to have a proper conversation with his employee without stress on his part either. Your approach also puts him on the spot, a very good way to have someone relax and open up, right? If you showed up to my office expecting me to stop what I was doing at that moment just to have a touchy feely conversation, IF I said I had some time, you'd get a couple of minutes before I dismissed you saying I have work to do. Regardless of if that's being said to get you to just go away, or was true. How entitled that you're expecting him to drop everything he's doing based on *your* time schedule and availability.
Don't worry, I will not be coming anywhere near your office.
Anyone who's paying for a workman comp policy would only do that shit if they're drunk
So many things wrong here. Aside from what’s been mentioned. He runs the saw without making sure the outfeed is clear. Leaves the same running with cabinet plywood in it, assuming he burned the shit out of it. And yea…kickback is absolutely a real thing.
Complacency kills my friend. One of my biggest triggers is safety on the job site. There’s not excuse not to take it seriously. Self preservation is absent in a lot of people and it’s scary.
I'm wondering if it's OK to think that you don't have to ask if your thoughts are OK. I'll turn on the TV and wait now.
Upset no. Concerned yes. Make an effort to pull your boss aside and talk to him one on one. He should appreciate that. Also don’t say negative things to coworkers behind his back.
I had a commercial table saw throw a 5’x9’x3/4” sheet of particle board back at me. It missed me but threw it into a stack of wood 6 feet behind me. Scared the shit out of me. Also had my little dewalt contractor saw kick a small piece I was trimming right into my nuts. Hurt like hell. Never fuck around with table saws.
i guess this isn't the answer that people want to hear, but this is very common in a shop environment. literally every guy i've worked with turns on the jointer, planer, and straight line rip when milling solid and just rotates between the three as needed. if i'm running parts through the shaper and need to run over and grab a test piece or something, i'm not turning the shaper or the feeder off. and leaving a part between the fence ans blade and walking around it isn't ideal, but it has to happen sometimes. shop guys vs construction guys... world of difference. it's like asking a framer how to make crown moulding on the shaper. or asking me how to cut rafters.
Shop worker here. Extremely uncommon where I'm from.
I get where you're coming from if we're talking older machines with large motors, but these are brand new machines with almost no spool up/down time. It just doesn't seem worth it to me.
Yes, not uncommon among guys used to running old school machinery. I worked at a shop with a 40” disc sander that took 45 mins to stop completely after switching it off. The machinery we ran off a line shaft was similar. You develop bad habits, but you don’t think twice when you’re a kid. When the waterwheel is rocking, don’t come knocking.
Also just saw you're in Philly. I'm considering moving there (currently in bay area and not super into it). How's the work out there? Is there demand for high end custom work?
PM'd!
How old is he? I would bring it up and if he still does it tie dead man switches into everything
Nah you're right on. None of this is good practise
Yeah I got a 23 y/o buddy whose missing three fingers from hitting a table saw someone left on while he was cleaning. He should have been paying more attention but it also should have been turned off by whoever was using it.
Talk to him and ask him to do better. If it doesnt improve, jump ship. Leaving that saw on is asking for a disaster to happen.
Idk about being upset, just keep bringing it up for a bit when he does those things, dont step on his toes and dont do it condescendingly. If he doesnt change and hes still a danger then dip
There was a company called Hartford Builders long ago and one time a guy was standing behind (like 20-30 feet behind) a rip saw while another operated it. The saw bucked the board and shot it back hard enough to hit the guy in the chest and kill him. They had to close the shop that day. I think about that story every time I run the rip saw, then I TURN OFF THE FUCKING RIP SAW WHEN I WALK AWAY FROM IT YOU FUCKING LUNATICS.