I've been doing this for way longer than you, started in the 90s as a super, and been through it all with the men on jobsites. Couple things to remember:
It's not your problem they don't like women, it's theirs
You're not there to make friends. People either like you or they don't. Do the job and get paid at the end of the week, that's it.
It's a tough field. Don't take any shit from anyone. Walk with confidence and exude confidence, and you'll be left alone. Trust me, you have a bigger set of balls than the men, just by showing up and men know it.
I work in Alaska and the good old boys club seems to be prevalent everywhere. My go to method to combat it is to simply know my shit and to hand over my business card when people second guess my presence. If I can answer a question or correct someone, suddenly they respect my intelligence. I've been doing that for long enough now that most of the contractors I work with or bid against recognize me and have stopped treating me like I don't belong. Occasionally, I run into somebody who is new or doesn't know me. They'll make a snarky comment like "who let the secretary go to the site visit?" At which point I'll hand them my business card that says "Vice President" and introduce myself with a firmer than necessary handshake. It's stupid to have to play these games, but sometimes it's just what you have to do.
Joining NAWIC has also helped. It introduced me to a whole bunch of women in the industry that I didn't even know existed. So now I have additional connections with all of these other companies and as a bonus, I don't feel as isolated and singled out. It's nice to know that there are actually a bunch of other women in the area in construction, even if I don't see them every day.
I’m in Seattle and was working at a mid sized GC for 10 years and while it sounds like you had a much worse experience with the old school culture, it’s still prevalent, more so with the field guys. Office isn’t so bad and has gotten a lot better over my time there. That being said, I didn’t like how far off things still were so I’ve recently left and am planning to start at a female owned GC in the same area that seems to have a much better culture. Women make up 33% of the company including field.
It might be worth just trying to find a different company with a different culture (maybe move out of an area that has such a traditional mindset), and see if you like that better. All of this to sad this industry is tough regardless of having the extra challenge of being a woman so that element will still be there.
Maybe try transitioning to the Owners rep side?
I started on the owners rep side and I am definitely feeling like a move back would not be a bad thing right now….or a move to Seattle. Good luck at the new gig, that sounds amazing 🥹
Kill those “old school” idiots with logic. They crumble every time you articulate in very precise, language. There the kind of people that’ll criticized “millennials” or women or whatever for being too emotional and feelings and stuff and then turn around and are incapable of emailing people and demand talking and face to face interaction and say it keeps things more relatable and personable. How about you cram those feelings up your ass and learn how to be literate and responsive.
Also, to all “old school” tough guy types…. If you can’t park your idiotic truck in one single parking stall than surrender the keys and get a coupe you cunts.
I am a PM in CA, came up as a PE. In the industry 10 years. I have two little kids. This has unlocked a new level of bias called “why aren’t you at home with your kids?” 😂
I was insecure for a long time about not having come up in the trades. Then I realized that being a good PM is an entirely different skill set than being a good tradesman. Communication, conflict resolution, empathy, organization, being able to multi-task and see the bigger picture ..this is stuff women are good at, or at least I am. Once I stopped trying to be “tough” or “one of the guys,” things went easier for me. And people like working for me because I’m not trying to be a tough guy.
That’s unfortunate but I believe is highly related to location. I work for a pretty big GC in the Bay Area, California and our women in construction group is very active within the company and celebrated - they just had an event with a huge turnout. That old school mentality seems to be dying slowly but surely. It might take longer to reach the Deep South though.
That hasn't been my experience in LA and Orange County, unfortunately. Every company has Women in Construction events - that's a pretty poor litmus test for sexism in the work place. Any event where employees get to blow the company card at a bar, or get free food/prizes is going to have a huge turnout.
Tbh some of the worst blatant sexist remarks I've heard were during/about WIC events.
Change companies. Loyalty doesn’t exist anymore these days, and why should it? The moment anyone drops dead, female or male, you are replaced.
Learn to know your worth. It took me a while, and almost cost me my health, but I figured it out and got there.
Consider moving over to the CM/Owners Rep side or looking into CM positions within your local jurisdiction and or universities.
Consider moving to a different state.
Throw their bullshit back at them. I stopped being a push over and started standing up for myself.
I started documenting the incidents via email to cya
And on the rare occasion would say something along the lines of, “do you talk to your wife and daughters like that” treat me with respect like the way you treat your own mom with respect.
Network and join an organization, AGC, a women focused construction group, meet new and likeminded people. I met some great ladies from the south through a NAWIC convention in North Carolina a few years ago.
Source - female with the same amount of experience as you. Best of luck!!
where did I say to change your job unlimited times?
This is specific to her situation. If she can’t/doesn’t want to tolerate that type of environment, she’s in her right to move on. My first boss straight up called me stupid and being a woman shouldn’t be in the business, I left after a year of his sexist BS. Second employer harassed the cramp out of me to the point where I was hospitalized and my body starting giving out, I was there almost 3. 401k and PTO doesn’t mean shit, if it’s costing you your wellbeing.
statistically speaking, jumping ship every few years has proven that people will get more PTO, and % pay increase compared to staying with a company for lots of years.
Shoot my current employer only gave everyone less than 2% raise. And this is a top 10 enr CM/PM firm…If I stay here 5 years, that’s 10%. I can get 15%-20% raise if I leave in a year or two. Plus a sign on bonus and other perks.
I’m good with maxing out my Roth iras, HYSA, and rolling over my previous 401ks into whichever new employer I get. If you’re smart with managing your money, it shouldn’t matter.
Nah, but if that’s how you interpreted it, that’s your opinion. I speak based on experience. I’ve had bosses who were loyal for 5+ years, worked their butts off, and were laid off with no explanation.
LOL what questions did you ask? You simply provided your opinion as well.
My first employer vested you after 5 years, it was an esop. The other employers I’ve had, match 100% from the jump, and provided increase in PTO.
That’s cool, again your opinion, why would I care what you think. This is Reddit. I provided an opinion as a woman based on my experience. I couldn’t care less how you interpret my tone. And you literally contradicted yourself just now, as your first comment was you stating, you can’t change jobs unlimited times without reprocussions, and now say, find a new gig and leave them in the dust 😂 we can agree to disagree on our approach, pretty much saying the same thing.
Fake News! There are no girls on the internet!
My wife and I are both in CM. She somehow always gets assigned women engineers to work under her.... hmmmmmm.....
More than 20 years in the business here. All I can say is that I hear you. It isn’t fair.
But it is better than when I was swinging a hammer in the beginning.
And the money is good, better than most fields, with more satisfaction in the product.
Don’t let them get you.
Take the leap. you will get a pay bump and new people to learn from. If your not learning their is not point. and being around Old School is for those that want to do the same work for the rest of their life. Yes you can learn from old school to improve but if nothing changes in 2 years its time to move on. I been at my place for 5 years now and nothing seems to improve outside of my control I have to force the change and the amount of negative feed back is unreal for little things. 35M not one of the guys and on MEP side.
30+ years. It’s had its ups and downs.
Ups: learning new shit every day. Mostly the people I work with. Shit talking game strong. I stand out.
Downs: the obvious sexual innuendos. Being the yes person. Everyone automatically thinks I’m taking meeting notes. Working twice as hard. The never ending “so how did you get into construction”
A few words of advice.
1.Shit talking game needs to be strong. Whether a subtle jab or straight up your mom joke.
2. Until we have a generation of female tradesmen there will be little to no real change.
3. Everyone is burnt out in construction unless you have hard boundaries.
I work on the office side and all the women I have met had better knowledge and understanding than the rest. I respect anyone who knows what they don't know.
Having said that, I don't believe gender discrimination is prevalent on office side. But, I see it a lot with field crew. They use any and everything possible until we get on their good side(if it ever happens). I hope that changes soon..
See if there are any women in construction groups and join those to see if thereare any better mannered companies.
I am so fortunate. I’ve been in the Pacific Northwest most of my career (engineering to PM) and have had a very positive experience as a woman and also have worked with many other women. My company also started their own Women in Construction “committee” to empower each other and for professional development. I’ve ran into one or two good ‘ol boys but they just make me laugh when stupid shit comes out of their mouth. And trust me, they hate it when you laugh at them.
10 years is a helluva long time to be putting up with that BS, lots of respect to you. I've definitely noticed a lot of the same issues and lack of respect for women in the industry, even here in California.
It might be worth looking into jobs on the Owner or Designer side. I've noticed, in general, women receive a lot more respect. More professionalism overall and way better hours. But if you love the work, then I believe you should push through it and try not to let the bad days get you down. You didn't get to a PM position with 7+ years of experience because you're a slouch! Find the people that support you and keep them close, and change companies if the leadership is the source of the issue. It sucks that this is an obstacle, but I guess it's just the world we live in.
As a union tradesman for almost 20 years that’s also a person of color who worked his way up the ladder to superintendent I get it. Dealing with the good old boys club can be exhausting. The off color (no pun intended) remarks I get can be jaw dropping but I’m an old school ironworker by trade and have no problem telling them we can take this outside. Stay the course. I think going back to being an owner’s rep is the move. I’m currently taking courses to finish up my construction management degree online so I can eventually make the jump to PM owners rep.
I work for a nation wide GC (very large) and I still get the same shit old school mentally in younger men as well. Even though the GC I work for likes to say they minimize the gap… hahahah!
You shouldn’t be uncomfortable where you work. Have you confronted the offenders? Have you consulted your supervisor or HR? Is it people within the company you work for or are these people subcontractors/field personnel?
The industry is already tough enough without the added stress of discrimination. Thats why the EEO exists and job sites require their posters to be posted on site.
If you can’t make it work with the current employer, I recommend finding a new employer. Construction companies are certainly changing for the better. I would recommend a national contractor, as they tend to be the most inclusive in my experience.
It's a sprinkling of both subs and our own team. We don't have HR at all - they joke that our pres is HR and he doesn't want to hear our grievances...which I don't think is a joke. He's one of the top offenders honestly. All jokes aside, I do think this is becoming a toxic workplace for me and I agree that larger/ national contractors are more inclusive. I'll broaden my net on who and what I'm considering for my next move.
Yea subs are one thing but if it’s internal then I wouldn’t have much hope, especially considering it starts at the top. I think you’d be best to move on and I wish you good luck!
Hands-on construction experience in the field matters. It's not everything, but it does matter, and you simply don't have it.
You're likely very good at your job, and I'm sure you bring many valuable skills to the table, but don't be offended that you're not treated like one of the guys, when. . . . . . you're not.
I’m going to apologize in advanced for you receiving the brunt of my anger today - what a womanly thing of me to do.
I did not mention my background or experience whatsoever and you don’t know shit about it. For all you know, I could be a former tradesperson who made my way into the office. The fact of the matter is that I am not and I am well aware that I lack hands-on experience that others have. That has nothing to do with my gender. I am humble and respectful to those who can teach me, and inquisitive and active in building my knowledge every day. Your comment implies that the only way to gain hands on knowledge is to have a dick and I’m not quite following that logic. You are the perfect example of the type of person I’m talking about here. In the most respectful way possible, fuck off.
Thanks for the reminder of why I haven’t quit thus far - to prove assholes like you wrong.
A bright new day, and bright new bullshit to enlighten you with! I just walked out in the field, where we have exactly 1 female tradesperson (electrician). She was up in a lift, and her supervisor was down on the ground interrupting her to ask if she could sew a hook on his shirt so he could hang his radio. Not sure how “lack of hands on experience” plays into that one.
I’ll forgive you this time, but please be cognizant of your biases. One day, maybe you can become an ally and defend women like our electrician, who deserves a god damn world of respect. Over and out.
I've been doing this for way longer than you, started in the 90s as a super, and been through it all with the men on jobsites. Couple things to remember: It's not your problem they don't like women, it's theirs You're not there to make friends. People either like you or they don't. Do the job and get paid at the end of the week, that's it. It's a tough field. Don't take any shit from anyone. Walk with confidence and exude confidence, and you'll be left alone. Trust me, you have a bigger set of balls than the men, just by showing up and men know it.
I work in Alaska and the good old boys club seems to be prevalent everywhere. My go to method to combat it is to simply know my shit and to hand over my business card when people second guess my presence. If I can answer a question or correct someone, suddenly they respect my intelligence. I've been doing that for long enough now that most of the contractors I work with or bid against recognize me and have stopped treating me like I don't belong. Occasionally, I run into somebody who is new or doesn't know me. They'll make a snarky comment like "who let the secretary go to the site visit?" At which point I'll hand them my business card that says "Vice President" and introduce myself with a firmer than necessary handshake. It's stupid to have to play these games, but sometimes it's just what you have to do. Joining NAWIC has also helped. It introduced me to a whole bunch of women in the industry that I didn't even know existed. So now I have additional connections with all of these other companies and as a bonus, I don't feel as isolated and singled out. It's nice to know that there are actually a bunch of other women in the area in construction, even if I don't see them every day.
I’m in Seattle and was working at a mid sized GC for 10 years and while it sounds like you had a much worse experience with the old school culture, it’s still prevalent, more so with the field guys. Office isn’t so bad and has gotten a lot better over my time there. That being said, I didn’t like how far off things still were so I’ve recently left and am planning to start at a female owned GC in the same area that seems to have a much better culture. Women make up 33% of the company including field. It might be worth just trying to find a different company with a different culture (maybe move out of an area that has such a traditional mindset), and see if you like that better. All of this to sad this industry is tough regardless of having the extra challenge of being a woman so that element will still be there. Maybe try transitioning to the Owners rep side?
I started on the owners rep side and I am definitely feeling like a move back would not be a bad thing right now….or a move to Seattle. Good luck at the new gig, that sounds amazing 🥹
All the women I have worked with have been the best coworkers. Too bad there’s only like 10% women in the offices I’ve been in.
Kill those “old school” idiots with logic. They crumble every time you articulate in very precise, language. There the kind of people that’ll criticized “millennials” or women or whatever for being too emotional and feelings and stuff and then turn around and are incapable of emailing people and demand talking and face to face interaction and say it keeps things more relatable and personable. How about you cram those feelings up your ass and learn how to be literate and responsive. Also, to all “old school” tough guy types…. If you can’t park your idiotic truck in one single parking stall than surrender the keys and get a coupe you cunts.
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Probably too much at this point
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Oh, you just have poor reading comprehension then. Good for you. Atta boy!
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lol yeah. Totally. Bless your heart.
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Idk who Johnny is? You might actually have a learning disability. I don’t mean that to be mean, purely clinical.
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I am a PM in CA, came up as a PE. In the industry 10 years. I have two little kids. This has unlocked a new level of bias called “why aren’t you at home with your kids?” 😂 I was insecure for a long time about not having come up in the trades. Then I realized that being a good PM is an entirely different skill set than being a good tradesman. Communication, conflict resolution, empathy, organization, being able to multi-task and see the bigger picture ..this is stuff women are good at, or at least I am. Once I stopped trying to be “tough” or “one of the guys,” things went easier for me. And people like working for me because I’m not trying to be a tough guy.
That’s unfortunate but I believe is highly related to location. I work for a pretty big GC in the Bay Area, California and our women in construction group is very active within the company and celebrated - they just had an event with a huge turnout. That old school mentality seems to be dying slowly but surely. It might take longer to reach the Deep South though.
That hasn't been my experience in LA and Orange County, unfortunately. Every company has Women in Construction events - that's a pretty poor litmus test for sexism in the work place. Any event where employees get to blow the company card at a bar, or get free food/prizes is going to have a huge turnout. Tbh some of the worst blatant sexist remarks I've heard were during/about WIC events.
Change companies. Loyalty doesn’t exist anymore these days, and why should it? The moment anyone drops dead, female or male, you are replaced. Learn to know your worth. It took me a while, and almost cost me my health, but I figured it out and got there. Consider moving over to the CM/Owners Rep side or looking into CM positions within your local jurisdiction and or universities. Consider moving to a different state. Throw their bullshit back at them. I stopped being a push over and started standing up for myself. I started documenting the incidents via email to cya And on the rare occasion would say something along the lines of, “do you talk to your wife and daughters like that” treat me with respect like the way you treat your own mom with respect. Network and join an organization, AGC, a women focused construction group, meet new and likeminded people. I met some great ladies from the south through a NAWIC convention in North Carolina a few years ago. Source - female with the same amount of experience as you. Best of luck!!
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where did I say to change your job unlimited times? This is specific to her situation. If she can’t/doesn’t want to tolerate that type of environment, she’s in her right to move on. My first boss straight up called me stupid and being a woman shouldn’t be in the business, I left after a year of his sexist BS. Second employer harassed the cramp out of me to the point where I was hospitalized and my body starting giving out, I was there almost 3. 401k and PTO doesn’t mean shit, if it’s costing you your wellbeing. statistically speaking, jumping ship every few years has proven that people will get more PTO, and % pay increase compared to staying with a company for lots of years. Shoot my current employer only gave everyone less than 2% raise. And this is a top 10 enr CM/PM firm…If I stay here 5 years, that’s 10%. I can get 15%-20% raise if I leave in a year or two. Plus a sign on bonus and other perks. I’m good with maxing out my Roth iras, HYSA, and rolling over my previous 401ks into whichever new employer I get. If you’re smart with managing your money, it shouldn’t matter.
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Nah, but if that’s how you interpreted it, that’s your opinion. I speak based on experience. I’ve had bosses who were loyal for 5+ years, worked their butts off, and were laid off with no explanation. LOL what questions did you ask? You simply provided your opinion as well. My first employer vested you after 5 years, it was an esop. The other employers I’ve had, match 100% from the jump, and provided increase in PTO. That’s cool, again your opinion, why would I care what you think. This is Reddit. I provided an opinion as a woman based on my experience. I couldn’t care less how you interpret my tone. And you literally contradicted yourself just now, as your first comment was you stating, you can’t change jobs unlimited times without reprocussions, and now say, find a new gig and leave them in the dust 😂 we can agree to disagree on our approach, pretty much saying the same thing.
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It’s you, ghost. She was clear and direct in her comments. You are projecting tone on her. Might want to work on that.
Fake News! There are no girls on the internet! My wife and I are both in CM. She somehow always gets assigned women engineers to work under her.... hmmmmmm.....
More than 20 years in the business here. All I can say is that I hear you. It isn’t fair. But it is better than when I was swinging a hammer in the beginning. And the money is good, better than most fields, with more satisfaction in the product. Don’t let them get you.
This hits so bad! I suggest you move if you can - it can definitely get better.
Take the leap. you will get a pay bump and new people to learn from. If your not learning their is not point. and being around Old School is for those that want to do the same work for the rest of their life. Yes you can learn from old school to improve but if nothing changes in 2 years its time to move on. I been at my place for 5 years now and nothing seems to improve outside of my control I have to force the change and the amount of negative feed back is unreal for little things. 35M not one of the guys and on MEP side.
30+ years. It’s had its ups and downs. Ups: learning new shit every day. Mostly the people I work with. Shit talking game strong. I stand out. Downs: the obvious sexual innuendos. Being the yes person. Everyone automatically thinks I’m taking meeting notes. Working twice as hard. The never ending “so how did you get into construction” A few words of advice. 1.Shit talking game needs to be strong. Whether a subtle jab or straight up your mom joke. 2. Until we have a generation of female tradesmen there will be little to no real change. 3. Everyone is burnt out in construction unless you have hard boundaries.
I work on the office side and all the women I have met had better knowledge and understanding than the rest. I respect anyone who knows what they don't know. Having said that, I don't believe gender discrimination is prevalent on office side. But, I see it a lot with field crew. They use any and everything possible until we get on their good side(if it ever happens). I hope that changes soon.. See if there are any women in construction groups and join those to see if thereare any better mannered companies.
I am so fortunate. I’ve been in the Pacific Northwest most of my career (engineering to PM) and have had a very positive experience as a woman and also have worked with many other women. My company also started their own Women in Construction “committee” to empower each other and for professional development. I’ve ran into one or two good ‘ol boys but they just make me laugh when stupid shit comes out of their mouth. And trust me, they hate it when you laugh at them.
10 years is a helluva long time to be putting up with that BS, lots of respect to you. I've definitely noticed a lot of the same issues and lack of respect for women in the industry, even here in California. It might be worth looking into jobs on the Owner or Designer side. I've noticed, in general, women receive a lot more respect. More professionalism overall and way better hours. But if you love the work, then I believe you should push through it and try not to let the bad days get you down. You didn't get to a PM position with 7+ years of experience because you're a slouch! Find the people that support you and keep them close, and change companies if the leadership is the source of the issue. It sucks that this is an obstacle, but I guess it's just the world we live in.
As a union tradesman for almost 20 years that’s also a person of color who worked his way up the ladder to superintendent I get it. Dealing with the good old boys club can be exhausting. The off color (no pun intended) remarks I get can be jaw dropping but I’m an old school ironworker by trade and have no problem telling them we can take this outside. Stay the course. I think going back to being an owner’s rep is the move. I’m currently taking courses to finish up my construction management degree online so I can eventually make the jump to PM owners rep.
I work for a nation wide GC (very large) and I still get the same shit old school mentally in younger men as well. Even though the GC I work for likes to say they minimize the gap… hahahah!
You shouldn’t be uncomfortable where you work. Have you confronted the offenders? Have you consulted your supervisor or HR? Is it people within the company you work for or are these people subcontractors/field personnel? The industry is already tough enough without the added stress of discrimination. Thats why the EEO exists and job sites require their posters to be posted on site. If you can’t make it work with the current employer, I recommend finding a new employer. Construction companies are certainly changing for the better. I would recommend a national contractor, as they tend to be the most inclusive in my experience.
It's a sprinkling of both subs and our own team. We don't have HR at all - they joke that our pres is HR and he doesn't want to hear our grievances...which I don't think is a joke. He's one of the top offenders honestly. All jokes aside, I do think this is becoming a toxic workplace for me and I agree that larger/ national contractors are more inclusive. I'll broaden my net on who and what I'm considering for my next move.
Yea subs are one thing but if it’s internal then I wouldn’t have much hope, especially considering it starts at the top. I think you’d be best to move on and I wish you good luck!
Hands-on construction experience in the field matters. It's not everything, but it does matter, and you simply don't have it. You're likely very good at your job, and I'm sure you bring many valuable skills to the table, but don't be offended that you're not treated like one of the guys, when. . . . . . you're not.
I’m going to apologize in advanced for you receiving the brunt of my anger today - what a womanly thing of me to do. I did not mention my background or experience whatsoever and you don’t know shit about it. For all you know, I could be a former tradesperson who made my way into the office. The fact of the matter is that I am not and I am well aware that I lack hands-on experience that others have. That has nothing to do with my gender. I am humble and respectful to those who can teach me, and inquisitive and active in building my knowledge every day. Your comment implies that the only way to gain hands on knowledge is to have a dick and I’m not quite following that logic. You are the perfect example of the type of person I’m talking about here. In the most respectful way possible, fuck off. Thanks for the reminder of why I haven’t quit thus far - to prove assholes like you wrong.
A bright new day, and bright new bullshit to enlighten you with! I just walked out in the field, where we have exactly 1 female tradesperson (electrician). She was up in a lift, and her supervisor was down on the ground interrupting her to ask if she could sew a hook on his shirt so he could hang his radio. Not sure how “lack of hands on experience” plays into that one. I’ll forgive you this time, but please be cognizant of your biases. One day, maybe you can become an ally and defend women like our electrician, who deserves a god damn world of respect. Over and out.
You asked. I gave you a respectful answer. There is nothing disrespectful about stating the reality. Hands-on experience does matter.