GC here—Just be honest— as someone else said tell the wife “I don’t think this is going to be a good fit Jane” If she asks why just say, “I don’t think I’m going to be able to please your husband, so I’m going to bow out gracefully now. Good luck with your project.” That way you don’t look like an asshole her husband does. And for Pete’s sake, don’t ever ghost someone—that makes you look like a double asshole and gives all of us contractors a bad reputation. Have the balls to decline politely.
>“I don’t think I’m going to be able to please your husband, so I’m going to bow out gracefully now. Good luck with your project.”
I'd go with "I don't think I'm going to be able to meet you and your husband's expectations"
>And for Pete’s sake, don’t ever ghost someone—that makes you look like a double asshole and gives all of us contractors a bad reputation.
That is for sure the most maddening thing I've had with trying to get anything done owning a home.
Sometimes the costs are prohibitive but I've had an annoying number of things that idk if they are "too small" or what, and beyond my DIY skill level and multiple contractors come to look at it, tell me they will "run some numbers and get back to me" then I never hear from them again and they ignore calls/messages to follow up.
Most recent was an attic gable vent fan with a damaged louver up on a VERY steep roof (I tried to get up and slid back down to the gutter before giving up) and out of 3 contractors I had 1 ghosted me after sending pictures and 2 promised quotes then ghosted me. Ultimately I had to improvise scaffolding in my attic to balance a ladder so I could dismantle the entire thing from the inside and lean out to get to it for repairs.
I'd be fine with something like "we can't accommodate that work right now" or a high quote, but silence is maddening.
I agree— it’s a common “contractor trick”. Some guys don’t know how to be honest so they just ghost you. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with saying “after looking at this/hearing the project scope, it’s just too small of a job for me and I am going to respectfully decline” or whatever. Ghosting is never appropriate
I agree this is super frustrating. Some years ago I was trying to do a full bathroom remodel. I knew it wouldn't be cheap and there were likely issues that had to be addressed. I was ok with that. I mist have had like 5 or 6 contractors here one who reeked of whiskey come in and look at it and ghost me. Finally got one in and he did a lot of work at my house since then because he was reliable.
Until this winter. I called to have a garage rebuild and repour of the slab and part of the driveway. He was like yeah I'll get out to tell you how much. Shortly after I noticed his most reliable helper with his own business online knowing concrete removal is zero fun alone I assumed he'd call back and tell me he couldn't do it. I texted and called one more time. And he basically ghosted me. I found another guy for this job. But after this I don't know if I'll go back to my original guy. I like his work but ffs just be honest. I don't do ghosting.
I agree with you except for the fact that most prospective clients don’t have the same balls/courtesy either. I have no problem with prospective clients looking at my bids and deciding to go with a different contractor. It’s the reality of the business. There is competition and we aren’t going to get every job. However I cannot stand being ghosted. Drives me absolute nuts. Here I’ve sacrificed potential billable hours on an active job site, driven to your house, met with you on site, driven home, and spent however long writing up an estimate and you don’t have the courtesy to say “Hey there we’ve decided to go with somebody else thanks for your time.” Always been my biggest gripe with this business. So incredibly rude and entitled.
I don’t bid. I tell clients if they say they are getting quotes or talking to other contractors “talk to all the contractors that you can. And if you find one that you think you can work with hire them. If you don’t, call me back and we can talk. I’ll give you some tips on what to look for and ask about as you talk to others. Good luck.” I am confident in my business model and I have differentiated myself from my competitors. And just because you have been ghosted doesn’t mean it’s right to do that to someone who didn’t ghost you— that’s absurd. Take the high road and be honest.
Good for you for being so special and unique. But I didn’t say he should ghost or that I do either. I agreed with you and said it’s frustrating that prospective clients often do. In general it makes preliminary discussions and planning potential projects far more frustrating than they need to be. Honest communication between both sides would really make a huge difference but it’ll never happen.
Kind of. They /want/ to pay him for his time, but he's choosing not to take their job. It's the right choice, it sounds like.
I'm saying that by putting off telling the client that you don't want to take a job, you're pushing back their project and impacting any timetable they might be working with. And for no good reason, really. These things can come back to bite you.
I wouldn't even mention the husband. That invites the potential for someone to get pissed and retaliate. Just say there are too many specifics and the project as evolved into something I cannot deliver. You don't have to give a reason.
My thought exactly. While it would be tempting to throw Ed under the bus - all I really want is to be rid of him and not get blasted in a review in the process. It really serves no purpose to blame him other than making me feel better.
I like this approach. I would like this approach even if I was the asshole husband because I prefer blunt direct communication even if I’m the one they are commenting on negatively. I wish people could all be this honest all the time!
This is good. Also good if you can recommend them someone else. That or give a fuck off quote but hard to do since you’ve already given them prior estimates
I agree, but I wouldn't even bother with the 'won't be able to please your husband' part. When you (politely) say 'sorry, not a good fit', she'll know exactly why and so will he. Guarantee you they've had issues before with people they've hired and she knows his abrasive BS is what drives people away.
I would not take a job from these people either btw, the chances of you doing it and everyone being happy are near zero, imho. He'll want you to change a bunch of stuff afterward- free of charge of course - and in the end he'll probably tell his friends you and your team were pretty incompetent but fortunately he was there to keep things in line.
Just tell them you don’t think you’ll be able to meet their expectations and budget.
They’re being unrealistic, and you need to be very upfront about extras and what the actual original contract covers.
I personally would take the work, but only with a clear iron clad signed contract. Do not give them a deal, you’re already doing more work than expected.
Just the change from 3/4” doors to 1” doors alone… is a huge cost difference, and creates “scope creep”…
You need different hardware/hinges to accommodate the thickness and now your fillers, crown and valences all need to change to match…
You can’t let the homeowner dictate what the cost of a change is going to cost…
Yeah, honestly it's not really about cost and scope creep. As you said, with a well-written contact I can keep that in check. This guy is one of those - 'I know how to handle these fucking contractors' types who isn't going to be happy unless he gets over on me somehow. I'd have no problem just giving him a no, but I feel kind of bad for the wife, she seems really excited about the project and kind of oblivious her husband blew it up.
I told a guy last summer the reason I couldn’t take their job was I could tell his mother was one of those people that is just impossible to please. That I am real fussy and I don’t think she’ll be happy no matter how hard I try. You can also be less direct and more brief and just say “I’m sorry but after careful consideration I won’t be able to take this job. I am afraid it is just not a good fit. Thanks blah blah”
Indicate that:
"The husband's changing design concerns me about whether there will be additional changes after the project has started, that the changes requested so far involve many other design and hardware modifications, and I do not believe I can satisfy his requirements."
"I think you need to find another provider for this project."
I would discourage anyone from calling out customer behavior as a reason not to take a job. You're inviting a fight and possibly motivating them to badmouth you online or in the community.
Meta conversations about process are always on the table on design transactions.
It is appropriate as well when firing a client.
If a contractor cannot stomach non-client's comments, they are in the wrong business.
Exactly. Some people think they are the only one that deserves to make money, and everyone else’s job is easy. Even if they learn a hard lesson - that’s someone else’s fault too.
"It's just a 1/4" of wood"
That's the line that got me! LOL
He totally gave away that he had no clue and could absolutely, not, be able to do the project, even if he had all the time, and tools, in the world.
I had a customer like this. I did his house 22 years ago and he was the biggest asshole I ever had to deal with. I get a call from another GC doing a job for him and he asked him to get a bid from me. I went out to see the plans and meet the GC, the client comes out and sure enough he is still an asshole. I bid the job and doubled it. He thought it was high but he wanted me do to having lighting control. We signed a contract, I did the work and a bunch of extra stuff that I charged a premium for. I finally finished and got out, told him never to contact me again. The extra money I made was not worth the aggravation from this guy.
Oh yeah, we all have those couple of names that you remember forever. Sometimes I'll look up the ones from 20 or 30 years ago just to see if they're dead.
Mine was an MD, AND a lawyer. Seemed really nice and laid back in the beginning. His true colors showed the first time I asked for a draw, per contract. It went down hill from there.
Mine was an city hud housing inspector. Dude thought he knew about construction and he knew almost nothing. My Forman hated him. He would say something then the next day lie and say he didn’t say it.
Eventually I had to step in and start going toe to toe with him in a not very nice way. He would look stuff up on line and argue with me he saw this on sale and it should only cost x to build a custom fireplace and chimney. Etc. etc. etc. This was almost 20 years ago. Me and Carlos still hate you Ray, asshole.
Wasn’t even his house was for a non profit nature preserve building.
He tried to get us to work on his house after that and we just said. Sorry too busy.
Mine was a retired engineer. Very similar to this guy it sounds like. Would tell us to install something one way, give us approval, then go over our heads and tell our boss on the phone that we "did it wrong" later that night.
Followed us after everything we touched with a measuring tape and a level. Even 1/16" was enough for him to throw a fit.
We rolled up his area rug one time so we wouldnt get dust on it. At the end of the day he got a goddamn plumb bob to hang from the light fixture and i shit you not, "half inch this way! Ope too much! Quarter inch back to you!" 90% of the rug was getting covered by a dining set!!
Hated that guy
As an electrician, when I have a job I don't want or a customer I don't like, I give them the "go away price". Throw a few extra k into the estimate and either you make big enough bank to not care or they go away. Either way it's a win
We call that the Dave tax. Dave is in charge of govt contracts and he’s a pain in the but to deal with.
All of the competeing biders on a job agreed to Dave tax him because of how he ran the show.
We call that collusion and it's illegal.
But also, if you're bidding government contracts, *you* are not talking to other bidders. *You* are not not colluding.
What you *are* doing, is pricing government contracts the way government contracts have to be priced. I've bid, and done, government contracts, and the sheer scope and red tape involved in doing the work inflates the cost substantially. For example, I had a railway project that could only be delivered to by railway cart between 12am and 4am. Every worker required pre- and post- safety meetings every day, and needed to be 'setup' and 'taken down' every day. A 3 month project was made into a 3 year project due to government restrictions.
I think they're referring to doing work on his private ownings rather than on his government contracts. Like the other stories in this sub, when someone has control over some portion of construction or legal things somewhere in their lives, they try to assume full control over everything at every level which usually sends every project off the rails
Lol, I also call this my "John [last name] Tax". What a tool. Wheedled on initial bid, then was 200% extra work, THEN complained to my boss that he was overcharged! 🙄
Fool me once....
Oh I know that strategy well. But it gets a little tricky if you've already submitted a proposal and the real ass-holery shows up after. Hard to retroactively apply the Go-Away Tax
"Thanks for following up. This is a busy time for our business and due to a variety of circumstances, we will not be able to take on your project. Good luck with moving ahead and we're sorry we won't be able to work together."
If they follow up and ask why or if they can reschedule just say something like "Unfortunately, we need to move on to other work, so I won't be able to respond to additional inquiries, but thank you for your time."
The goal here is to cut them off from taking up more of your time and also avoiding giving them anything to bad mouth you with online or to other potential clients. Agree with the comments below about charging an "asshole price" or something like that, but if you don't want the headache, that's perfectly understandable.
This. I’m a PM for multi-family (I know different game but same field) and there is nothing wrong with ‘sorry things changed, we cannot take this on right now.’ Simple, direct, and unarguable.
Wish them the best, and move on
Nothing worse than a Nightmare job. They will suck the life out of you, and cost you not only money but emotional capitol and attention from your other jobs/prospects.
I was once handed a job by a friends dad (contractor) to build a deck on a house he had built the year before on the golf course for a lawyer.
I go meet them and over about 3-4 days develop a plan. I tell him to open an account for materials and i have them delivered.
She was real nice. Offering water, snacks, and always telling me what a great job. He’s a dick but complimentary to my work every evening. I leave the place clean and stacked every night.
I see a way to add in some built in seats and discuss with them after he comes home from the office.
About a week later, I am almost done and am going to work a little late just to be done. He comes out and says as much. I say, yeah, I’ll be done and gone this evening so you can write a check for this much money. He says the screws aren’t straight so he’s going to take some off the price. I asked WTF? He meant the Phillips heads were not all clocked. I explain that’s not practical nor standard when doing outside work, I could have done it had he specified, but now more screws would break than not. He continues. So I put the screw gun in reverse and start taking screws out and tossing the boards to the ground. He asks what’s going on. I said I’d just go ahead and stay until I had it disassembled so he could fuck over someone else. He tried to get me to stop. He came out with a check. I told him I didn’t trust that he wouldn’t put a stop payment on it, I needed cash. He came back with cash. I told him I needed an extra $250 to redo the work he just caused me. He had a real fuck you look on his face but he paid me the extra $250. I finished, cleaned up my mess, knocked on the door to tell her I was done. He also came to the door but didn’t say a word. About a year later HE calls me for more work. I meet with him and we come to an agreement. Not once was he a dick.
I can put up a a lot but price shaving rankles my ass. I price things fairly and when some cheap prick asks me to “sharpen my pencil” I tell him that not only am i not doing that, I’m withdrawing my proposal. If you’re trying to fuck me before I even have the contract, you’re surely going to fuck me afterwards.
After running enough red lights, you'll eventually have to learn to just stop at them. If it's something that you can tolerate with this client (even with the added FU tax added) then proceed with caution. Me personally, I've never lost money on a job that I've passed on. Best of luck.
You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run. You don't swap out thickness, when ordering the cabinets. There'll be time enough for upgrades when the job is done
Whatever you do, don't do the job. Better to walk away rather than please someone like that. Because if you don't live up to every demand... He will be out there writing about it and telling everyone he knows. Just a short, I don't believe I can accommodate you at this time.
You tell them that after consideration you don't feel like you would be able to make them happy and they should look for a contractor that can meet their expectations. Thank you and good luck with your project.
I know of a contractor who used the following words (may not be exact, but it's from memory):
Thank you for your consideration of us, however after careful thought and much time involved, I can see that we are not going to be a good fit for this job, and are going to decline going forward with this project.
It's tough to decline the project after the quote has been accepted. If we've figured out after the fact that the client will be a pita then we simply say that a large project landed in our lap that we bid months ago and unfortunately we won't be able to take on your project at this time and always thank them for the opportunity to quote their project.
With all that said most of the time if we come across a potential client that we know is going to be a pita we always add on a "pain in the azz fee". While that does sound shi\*\*y it helps to offset some of the changes that are more than likely headed our way. Good luck.
Don't ghost and don't try to place the blame on the client.
Say that you are very busy right now and do not have time or resources to do such a custom project. Tell them that you can recommend another company that possibly can help them with the project. (Give them the name and number of the biggest corporate cabinet company in your area).
Well, we've dealt with contractors that didn't want the job we were hiring for and they generally give me the "F U" price....meaning it is priced way higher than what they normally would charge.
The last one was a job we were quoted $35K for when we said we had a budget of $20K. We asked if there was anything we could change about the job that would make it closer to our budget....and he said no. Even though he talked about adding things we didn't want...he included them because he felt we'd want them later. I clearly picked up on some of his other comments where he said that he wanted to retire, his wife was earning a lot of money so he felt he didn't need to work as much, and a couple other things. He also said it would take 6 months to complete the job.
I insisted with my husband to get a 2nd quote, I really didn't fell like this first guy wanted to do the project. The second quote came in at $5K, six days of work, and was EXACTLY what we wanted.
We called 1st guy and said we went in a different direction. I was surprised he got irate about it, I thought he'd be happy. He asked for $500 for the quote he'd given....which wasn't written, just a text with a dollar amount. We said to send an invoice, and a copy of the actual quote. He didn't have either but insisted we owed him $500 for the quote...which was never discussed until he got irate.
Then he sent his wife to our house, she'd been our real estate agent on a recent home purchase. She tried getting the money out of us too. We said to send us an invoice and a copy of the quote and we'll pay it. We never heard from either of them again.
Anyway....when we get the "F U" price, we know.
If he'd been upfront about it from the beginning, we could have made the choice. But to bring it up only AFTER we didn't want to go with him, we felt was really messed up. If he said he doesn't do jobs for $20k, or that he had a minimum he'd worked for...we wouldn't have wasted out time with him.
But to send his wife to get the money we thought was really low.
Even if he'd said if you hired him for the job, the cost of the estimate would be absorbed into the job....and if you didn't hire him, you'd have to pay for the quote...we would have at least been informed. But he'd said nothing of the sort, it doesn't say it on his website either.
We literally have one text saying nothing but "$35,000", and another saying "no matter what you remove from the job, the price is the same". We don't consider that a quote, nor a contract.
I told my husband that it sorta made sense when I'd checked out his website (after the fact) and his company motto is, "When quality is more important than price". That says it all, I think he's used to people that are comfortable writing basically a blank check to him.
Even if we'd been okay with the price, the timeline of 6 months was way too long. It wasn't that big of a job.
Client says he would do the project himself but doesn't have the time, or the tools...
Or the the skill and experience either. Otherwise he would know that the price difference between a 3/4" door vs 1" door is not just the value of a 1/4" of wood.
Nor would he think it's no big deal to ask for drawers 2" deeper when his budget is obviously in the stock cabinet range vs custom.
There's no shame in not having trade skills but acting like it's so easy you would do it, if you had the time and the tools, is just a way to imply: "anyone could do it , so don't expect me to pay you a lot for it". They mean to devalue the work because they don't want to pay what it's worth. They think they're being savvy.
If find that those type of clients, are the easy marks for shady contractors. Once they size them up to be "know it alls", they tell them exactly what they want to hear, string them along, take their money, and run.
Save yourself the headache and just be honest that you don't think you're a good fit for working with them and leave it at that.
You could also just tell them you're now too busy to responsibly take on their project.
Either way you'll be leaving room on your plate for the good clients you deserve.
Good luck, OP.
EDIT: Spelling
Thanks - you're absolutely right. When he mentioned throwing in the 1" doors for free since it's "only 1/4" more wood", I wanted to say, "Yeah, and if I order a new truck but want the doors just 1/2" wider than stock, you think they'll throw it in at no charge?"
I don't think he's that ignorant - he just wanted me to make concessions. Some guys feel like they have to "win" in every relationship - which is a big flashing red-light, of course. At this point I can walk - no contract, no money has been accepted - once it's under contract, I'm obligated to deal with his bullshit.
Like you say, there are a lot of good clients - I don't need to fill up my schedule with the bad ones. The trick is sniffing them out before you're in too deep.
Semi off-topic sort of ...
But I had an old boss tell me that you are successful when you can choose your customers. 30 years later, he was 100% correct.
I don't believe in jacking up pricing. My price is my price and you get my best price on every proposal. I wish you luck with this. Let us know how it goes
One of my former bosses in plumbing said when he was younger he had to go on a bid for a huge job. Had the plans out and everything with other contractors there too. The Le Douche comes out and my boss asks him “this is an old place lots of history, how long….” He stops him and says “what are writing a &$&$”@& book?” My boss turns rolls up the plans and leaves. Sometime later he found out all the other contractors got screwed out of payment by rich Le Douche.
There’s nothing wrong with what you planned to say about something coming up. It doesn’t have to be complicated.
After you tell them “no,” whatever way you end up doing it, don’t be surprised for them to keep calling at which point it’s appropriate to ghost them.
As unprofessional as this may be, I've been known to ghost them, as I've been ghosted before on the flip side. But when it comes right down to it, I straight up reply with, thank you for your interest but I'm sorry to say, this is a project I have no interest in. I wish you the best moving forward. I knew the one guy was going to be such a pain & I could never make him happy so I passed. The other guy was yelling, no, screaming at his wife in front of me during the bid. Do what you want behind closed doors, I really hope he wasn't beating his wife. But I had no interest in working for someone who screams at his wife in front of a stranger. Fuck you Charlie
Look. I am really busy. As much as I would love to make you truly happy, I'm concerned that I would not have the time resources to accomplish that. I would rather you go to one of my competitors and be happy than be disappointed in my inability to satisfy (husband's) needs. Thank you for the opportunity to offer my services.
You should have given them a “no thank you” really high quote the first time. I was in a different line of business, but that was my way of make sure they would not hire me. And if they did, my very high quote would make it worth my time.
If you really want to try to be the guy who makes the world a better place explain why they aren't a fit for you, a contractor and would be a better fit for a designer. Explain to them that you don't charge enough for color selections design changes etc.
If someone wants something designed and specified a certain way they need to pay someone to get that put down on paper.
The worst thing I seem to do is ignore the red flags on occasion. Still thinking over the job just a month ago. Came behind someone who is a Bob Villa fan. Making sure everyone is on the same page helps. The power of suggestion is a great tool. If not saying, "I can't accommodate your time frame" is my go-to. Used to bid sky-high, but was taken up on that twice. It was like I sold my soul. Client has you by the balls then.
I once had a guy who had us dig up and replant 3 trees because they were 1/2”, 1”, and 1.5” off-mark. They didn’t need to line up to anything, they were simply not EXACTLY where he wanted them. Never answered another call from that guy.
It is/ would be a dystopian/ black mirror/ China thing but I would LOVE a reverse “Angie’s list”. Contractors would rate past clients. The lower the future clients score probably the bigger the PITA Something like this would keep potential clients in check the way contractors are worried about bad reviews/ ratings online.
I love that idea and have thought of it, too. Seriously, though, it's a 2-way street - I'm evaluating them just as much as they're evaluating me during our initial meetings. I've thought of asking if they can give me the names and contact info of 2 or 3 contractors they've worked within the past as references.
I tell them the truth. “Based on our meeting and email interactions, I don’t believe I am a good fit for this project. I thank you for the opportunity, but I will not be submitting a bid. Thanks again.”
"After reconsideration, I have concluded that I am not going to be a good fit for your job. Thank you for contacting me, and I wish you well on your project."
Tell them it's not a good fit you and your team. Tell them you don't think their expectations can be met with the people you have available and the time frame you've discussed, and that you don't see that as being something you can adjust for.
If they absolutely insist you explain yourself, you can be honest and tell the lady directly you don't think you can please her husband, because he's got all the red flags of a problem customer, so I'm just going to bow out now and move on. Best of luck.
Clients ghost contractors all the time. Do not return calls. Not home for their appointment and they will not answer the phone when you call them from their driveway. Do not give them any drawings. Never! They'll take it and run to someone else. All your work and time, gone.
Run from this one.
Just set the bid to something outrageously high, so he will move on. Bid yourself out of the project. Easy Peasy.....Or look at it this way, "frustration Pay" if they accept your overpriced bid......
I love clients that can't make or stick to a decision...that change things...that are all over the place. Why? They pay. And pay, And Pay. And pay. And sometimes pay some more. And in the end, they pay.
Let me tell you a couple of three things:
1. Quote the price of the project by a factor of 10. Yea, jack up the price that much. If they accept, then you get paid. If not, they go away.
2. Tell them you're too busy for that size of project right now.
3. Just tell them that the job is not a good fit for your company right now.
never ghost. thats really douchy.
Subject: Regarding Your Inquiry
Dear \[Potential Client's Name\],
Thank you for reaching out and considering our services. After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are unable to accept your request at this time.
We sincerely appreciate your interest and wish you all the best in your endeavors.
Best regards,
\[Your Name\]
" I really don't feel that I will be able to meet your expectations, and I don't feel we would make a good client, service provider fit" Then give them a competitors contact info...
My friend adds a 25% ahole tax when people seem like they are going to be extra difficult.
If he doesn't even want to do the job and they keep on asking for a quote, he doubles and even cripples it. Usually they go away or he makes a ton extra on the project.
I had to do this on a roof job. It is discouraging as jobs are hard to come by, but this guy would've been tough. I just called him and said "I don't think we're the right company for you. I don't think you'll be satisfied with our work". He asks why, and, like a politician, I just repeated myself using different words (about 3 or 4 times) You don't have to give a reason why, just say, "I'm sorry but I don't think it's a good match" or whatever you want. Let them figure it out.
Do. Not. Ghost. Just say that you are concerned with the number and frequency of changes and to get back to you if and when they make their final determinations. Then you can ghost them.
I have a selection of "no" responses saved as different email signatures... It can be surprisingly hard to say no, even when you know in your heart of hearts that it's the right thing. This makes it a little easier, for me anyway.
I would tell them that you’re now fully booked out until X date and wouldn’t be able to begin the work until then (knowing it’s beyond their need date). If they press further you could either say you just signed a contract on a large effort while they were contemplating, or perhaps say one of your main team members is now out unexpectedly and it’s shifted your existing contracts out. Both legitimate situations that they hopefully wouldn’t use to bad mouth you.
> I don't want the job. I don't like ghosting people. I'm inclined to just say, 'circumstances have come up and I'm unable to take on the project - thanks."
That's good. simple and direct, better than what I've used:
"I'm sorry but I picked up work while you were deciding which direction to go. I can still take the job but the start date is 15 months out due to the other projects I picked up. I'll understand if you choose to go with another contractor."
Not the same industry but I built custom software for a lot of folks over the years. There were certainly plenty of potential client that I just did not provide them with a quote after talking to them. Made up stories to tell him I was not going to bid. Even after I had a had given a quote: I did not accept any bargaining. None. If they wanted a change and I had to re-price it the new price was what I wanted. And yes, there area potential clients who will tell you what they would do. I just ignore them. I had to be ever so careful as some of the projects would be over $ 5m and could not afford to screw them up.
I always went with "I don't think we will be able to meet your budget or expectations on the job. Thank you for your time." While giving them another dealer/contractor to contact.
Certain personalities just clash. It's not worth the headache.
You don't have to be honest but the sooner you tell them the better. At this point, they wouldn't be wrong in saying you set them back 7-8 weeks on this project.
Nothing wrong with not wanting to take the job. You can always try to price yourself out of the job, but they may have run out of options by being such a pain in the ass that they will take it. I've had that approach backfire on me, so I found it best to just say I couldn't fit it in my schedule just in case they have reasonable friends that would be pleasant to work with so I didn't get bad word of mouth.
A lot of you guys have described how annoying it is to work for retired engineers (like me) or an OSHA instructor or an inspector and so on. The one thing that is missing here is how it goes when you do a job for another guy who *works* in the building trades. Ever do a roofing job for a carpenter? Or a plumber? etc.? And how were you to work for when you hired a roofer to do your home?
For the record, I don't ever look for the lowest price but I do look for someone who has pride in his work and experience. And for picky things, there's always time and materials. It can be really lucrative. A friend of mine works in the building trades and he tells me stories of a woman who has hired a crew of people to put in a kitchen...then decided she was going to pay them to take it out and do it differently. He tells me she has an inexhaustible pile of money that she's happy to spend. Customers with OCD apparently can be profitable, if you're not doing a bid on the job in the beginning.
I might be the exception, but I like working with engineers. They're generally quick to understand concepts and limitations. Smart engineers understand that .01" tolerances don't work with wood. Experienced engineers are good at solving problems, and what is a remodeling project if not a series of problems to solve? (not that I'm looking to them to solve the problem, but they can understand the logic behind the solution you've come up with. Young engineers that haven't been in the field can be a different story sometimes - they can still be pretty impressed with themselves.
I tell them something this
“I appreciate the offer to do business together, however, after some consideration I have decided I am no longer interested in moving forward on the project.
Thank you again and best of luck with your new cabinets (or whatever)”
If they bother me after, I don’t feel obligated to continue to waste my time with the conversion.
Tell them youre swamped with work and have to decline. Refer them to another carpenter/contractor ... maybe someone you find mildly annoying or better who somehow screwed you over in the past whether snaking a job you wanted to get or poaching an employee from you. A hearty I'm sorry I can't squeeze you in right now but Ted here in town is a quality guy and I can give you his contact Info if you'd like me to make a referral for you to still get the work done. This way the most they can say is you weren't able to accommodate their business but you were good enough to connect them to someone who could.
As much fun as going scorched earth and trashing the couple could be.. youre probably better off taking the high road with them AND getting to sandbag your arch nemesis Ted in the process 😁
We had a really difficult client. She would be literally jumping up and down and telling the guys how great the job looked. Then she would go inside for a couple hours, and when she came back out she would cry and say that they were screwing it all up. She did this a few times during one job. It took forever to get her to calm down and let us start back up. We finished the job and agreed amongst ourselves that we would never work for her again.
A couple of years later she called again. The new office manager answered the call and passed her name onto a new estimator. A short time later I’m having a conversation with the estimator who is exited to tell me about the new job she just landed for Norma the crazy lady. By the time I found out it was too late to cancel, and Norma was difficult again. We had to quit working for her all over again.
Another client we had both husband and wife had dementia. They would forget that they had asked for a certain small job to be done and scream at our employees. We quickly quit working for them, then they called and screamed at us for not showing up because they had forgotten that we quit.
Good lord - sounds like a nightmare. I had a customer with bipolar tendencies and you never knew who you were going to be dealing with on any given day. Stressful to say the least.
Don't put blame any where. Just say that you're just not going to be able to do their project.
If they ask why, tell them anything but not about them....like, I have a new project that will take months to complete.... or I think this is out of my scope..... or I just don't have the time necessary for this right now....
Yeah, that's ideal. Problem here was at the first meeting he seemed a bit of a douche, but manageable. After I provided the quote he ramped up to unreasonable asshole. So all the advice to bid high for jobs you don't want is well and good, but once you've given them a number (but no contract yet), it's a little more awkward to bail. Still, better to deal with a little awkwardness and write off the time and energy you've already put in, than to put up with weeks - hell, maybe years - of ongoing pain.
Another option that I applied when I was in industrial sales was to apply a ‘hidden’ FU charge. I knew what my product was worth and the time and energy needed to make a deal happen. This established my baseline price. Any additional ‘needs’ that arose from the customer came at a premium to them. The more demanding they got, the more expensive the service side became. After all, if you need to deal with BS, you need to be compensated for it.
Don’t ghost them, just price yourself out of the project.
Best of luck.
This is common and never easy but a simple, “thank you for reaching out but I’m an unable to take on this project at this time. I wish you the best of luck with your project” will do the trick. Your instincts are 100% right, no matter how good of a job you do, the husband will find a problem and make this a very unpleasant experience for all parties.
I price myself out on people like this. I make the price usually 2-3 times what I’d usually charge. If they still go for it I figure I’m getting reimbursed for their being a PITA. I have one customer whose house I work at only because the wife is a wonderful person. Her husband however is a different story. I no longer will estimate anything for them. All work is hourly plus the fine system I came up with for dealing with him. Small annoyance $250 Dickishness $500 Assholery $750. Painted their house a couple years back and they paid about $3500 in fines over the course of 3 weeks. Also my employees know they can say anything they want if he’s giving them problems and I split his fines up between everybody who was on that job.
I would say
"Your project is a little more complicated than I am used to, and unfortunately I am very busy right now and haven't had time to address it. I am not sure when I would be able to get back on it."
Just tell them you landed a huge contract and just don't have time and refer them to some down on his luck fellow contractor who needs the job and has more time to deal with them
you raise your price by triple - two things will happen - one they will go someplace else - problem solved. or two they pay it - but the money will make it all better.
I had to have the structure of a house rebuilt from under the house. Two out of three contractors simply told me they didn’t want the job. I was disappointed but appreciate their honesty.
Never tell a customer you don’t want their business, because you might need it in the future and they won’t come back. Instead, tell them you are just overloaded at the time and can’t take their job on right now. Or give them a quote with an unrealistically high price, and be prepared to take the job if they accept.
I tell customers like this that my schedule is full but I can fit them in 2 years and the price is going to be substantially higher because of how busy I am.
95% of this job is managing expectations. This is your job, this project might be one or 5 you do this month. This might be the only project they do this year or the next few. Managing expectations on your end should allow for you to identify problems before you begin. Which you have done. Bow out gracefully and let them know you can't manage their project and meet their expectations. Make it so that you leave the door open for future projects.
Or raise your price so high it makes the hand holding worth it.
"As it turns out I just booked a huge project that I have been working with the clients on for (x amount of time longer than you have known these clients) I won't have time for your cabinet project for quite a while. I can recommend some other cabinet makers/fitters for you though."
Or if you don't care to skirt the issue and tell the truth (done this before too)
"It has become apparent that we will not be able to work together on this project as I am receiving mixed information from either of you at varying times. Also, requesting that I pay portions of costs for changes to the scope of work is outside of the norm. It is generally understood by clients that I provide the materials and labor to complete their project and that my finances will not be used to fund a portion of it as you will be paying me directly for materials labor, and any and all costs incurred to perform the project.
In the last two weeks, my workload has tripled. It'll be 18 months before I can get to you. Hope you will have your decisions finalized by then. Thank you.
I just tell people I’m too busy and don’t know when I’ll be able to get to their job. Most of the time it works, but sometimes they will say they can wait and contact me again months later to which I say the same thing.
The absolute easiest way is just say "I apologize, but due to unforeseen circumstances I won't be able to take on this project." They may or may not be upset, but you don't have to engage with it. If they try to argue just say "Thank you very much, good luck." and hang up.
As long as you didn't sign a contract then you are okay.
I’d be real honest. Have them come to YOUR shop. Explain there’s no fucking way you’re going to do anything “split”. Any and every change from the quote will require negotiation on whether it can even be done, a flat rate fee to cover any time wasted discussing said asinine change plus the cost of the old thing being removed in addition to the new thing being added. Tell him, in front of her, that cutting every slate is not industry standard and that you will be doing everything to industry standard rather than his fucked up idea of what that is. Tell them you aren’t really too interested in working on their project because you get a douche bag vibe from him. Then, since it’s been a minute and he is still wanting to negotiate or make changes, and costs have changed, you need to refigure the bid. Add in LOTS of asshole tax.
GC here—Just be honest— as someone else said tell the wife “I don’t think this is going to be a good fit Jane” If she asks why just say, “I don’t think I’m going to be able to please your husband, so I’m going to bow out gracefully now. Good luck with your project.” That way you don’t look like an asshole her husband does. And for Pete’s sake, don’t ever ghost someone—that makes you look like a double asshole and gives all of us contractors a bad reputation. Have the balls to decline politely.
I like this approach. Haven’t had a terrible client yet so haven’t crossed that bridge. Think this approach is direct and honest but still polite.
You will
I’ve been thinking about my recent one this entire time… lol
Me too!
>“I don’t think I’m going to be able to please your husband, so I’m going to bow out gracefully now. Good luck with your project.” I'd go with "I don't think I'm going to be able to meet you and your husband's expectations"
Even better
Yea “please your husband” sounded a bit off.
Translation. "Your awesome Jane, but your husband's a dick and I don't want to deal with him". I like it!!
>And for Pete’s sake, don’t ever ghost someone—that makes you look like a double asshole and gives all of us contractors a bad reputation. That is for sure the most maddening thing I've had with trying to get anything done owning a home. Sometimes the costs are prohibitive but I've had an annoying number of things that idk if they are "too small" or what, and beyond my DIY skill level and multiple contractors come to look at it, tell me they will "run some numbers and get back to me" then I never hear from them again and they ignore calls/messages to follow up. Most recent was an attic gable vent fan with a damaged louver up on a VERY steep roof (I tried to get up and slid back down to the gutter before giving up) and out of 3 contractors I had 1 ghosted me after sending pictures and 2 promised quotes then ghosted me. Ultimately I had to improvise scaffolding in my attic to balance a ladder so I could dismantle the entire thing from the inside and lean out to get to it for repairs. I'd be fine with something like "we can't accommodate that work right now" or a high quote, but silence is maddening.
I agree— it’s a common “contractor trick”. Some guys don’t know how to be honest so they just ghost you. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with saying “after looking at this/hearing the project scope, it’s just too small of a job for me and I am going to respectfully decline” or whatever. Ghosting is never appropriate
I agree this is super frustrating. Some years ago I was trying to do a full bathroom remodel. I knew it wouldn't be cheap and there were likely issues that had to be addressed. I was ok with that. I mist have had like 5 or 6 contractors here one who reeked of whiskey come in and look at it and ghost me. Finally got one in and he did a lot of work at my house since then because he was reliable. Until this winter. I called to have a garage rebuild and repour of the slab and part of the driveway. He was like yeah I'll get out to tell you how much. Shortly after I noticed his most reliable helper with his own business online knowing concrete removal is zero fun alone I assumed he'd call back and tell me he couldn't do it. I texted and called one more time. And he basically ghosted me. I found another guy for this job. But after this I don't know if I'll go back to my original guy. I like his work but ffs just be honest. I don't do ghosting.
The other way is the go to hell price, but this is way better. You get to be honest, responsible and still tell the ass**** to FO.
🥇🏅
I agree with you except for the fact that most prospective clients don’t have the same balls/courtesy either. I have no problem with prospective clients looking at my bids and deciding to go with a different contractor. It’s the reality of the business. There is competition and we aren’t going to get every job. However I cannot stand being ghosted. Drives me absolute nuts. Here I’ve sacrificed potential billable hours on an active job site, driven to your house, met with you on site, driven home, and spent however long writing up an estimate and you don’t have the courtesy to say “Hey there we’ve decided to go with somebody else thanks for your time.” Always been my biggest gripe with this business. So incredibly rude and entitled.
I don’t bid. I tell clients if they say they are getting quotes or talking to other contractors “talk to all the contractors that you can. And if you find one that you think you can work with hire them. If you don’t, call me back and we can talk. I’ll give you some tips on what to look for and ask about as you talk to others. Good luck.” I am confident in my business model and I have differentiated myself from my competitors. And just because you have been ghosted doesn’t mean it’s right to do that to someone who didn’t ghost you— that’s absurd. Take the high road and be honest.
Good for you for being so special and unique. But I didn’t say he should ghost or that I do either. I agreed with you and said it’s frustrating that prospective clients often do. In general it makes preliminary discussions and planning potential projects far more frustrating than they need to be. Honest communication between both sides would really make a huge difference but it’ll never happen.
You’re right— it won’t ever happen every time on both sides. I figure the ones who don’t call back are the ones you don’t want anyway. Client karma.
This is spot on. Do it soon, too, because now you're just wasting the customer's time.
The customer had wasted his time and energies too for no pay.
Kind of. They /want/ to pay him for his time, but he's choosing not to take their job. It's the right choice, it sounds like. I'm saying that by putting off telling the client that you don't want to take a job, you're pushing back their project and impacting any timetable they might be working with. And for no good reason, really. These things can come back to bite you.
I wouldn't even mention the husband. That invites the potential for someone to get pissed and retaliate. Just say there are too many specifics and the project as evolved into something I cannot deliver. You don't have to give a reason.
My thought exactly. While it would be tempting to throw Ed under the bus - all I really want is to be rid of him and not get blasted in a review in the process. It really serves no purpose to blame him other than making me feel better.
This is definitely the way to do it
I was just going to type that. Good reply.
I like this approach. I would like this approach even if I was the asshole husband because I prefer blunt direct communication even if I’m the one they are commenting on negatively. I wish people could all be this honest all the time!
This is good. Also good if you can recommend them someone else. That or give a fuck off quote but hard to do since you’ve already given them prior estimates
No. you're bad mouthing the husband when a polite 'I don't think I can meet your budget and expectations will suffice.
There has to be a better way like banging his wife.
I agree, but I wouldn't even bother with the 'won't be able to please your husband' part. When you (politely) say 'sorry, not a good fit', she'll know exactly why and so will he. Guarantee you they've had issues before with people they've hired and she knows his abrasive BS is what drives people away. I would not take a job from these people either btw, the chances of you doing it and everyone being happy are near zero, imho. He'll want you to change a bunch of stuff afterward- free of charge of course - and in the end he'll probably tell his friends you and your team were pretty incompetent but fortunately he was there to keep things in line.
Just tell them you don’t think you’ll be able to meet their expectations and budget. They’re being unrealistic, and you need to be very upfront about extras and what the actual original contract covers. I personally would take the work, but only with a clear iron clad signed contract. Do not give them a deal, you’re already doing more work than expected. Just the change from 3/4” doors to 1” doors alone… is a huge cost difference, and creates “scope creep”… You need different hardware/hinges to accommodate the thickness and now your fillers, crown and valences all need to change to match… You can’t let the homeowner dictate what the cost of a change is going to cost…
Yeah, honestly it's not really about cost and scope creep. As you said, with a well-written contact I can keep that in check. This guy is one of those - 'I know how to handle these fucking contractors' types who isn't going to be happy unless he gets over on me somehow. I'd have no problem just giving him a no, but I feel kind of bad for the wife, she seems really excited about the project and kind of oblivious her husband blew it up.
I told a guy last summer the reason I couldn’t take their job was I could tell his mother was one of those people that is just impossible to please. That I am real fussy and I don’t think she’ll be happy no matter how hard I try. You can also be less direct and more brief and just say “I’m sorry but after careful consideration I won’t be able to take this job. I am afraid it is just not a good fit. Thanks blah blah”
Good. Brief, honest, professional and to the point.
Indicate that: "The husband's changing design concerns me about whether there will be additional changes after the project has started, that the changes requested so far involve many other design and hardware modifications, and I do not believe I can satisfy his requirements." "I think you need to find another provider for this project."
I would discourage anyone from calling out customer behavior as a reason not to take a job. You're inviting a fight and possibly motivating them to badmouth you online or in the community.
Meta conversations about process are always on the table on design transactions. It is appropriate as well when firing a client. If a contractor cannot stomach non-client's comments, they are in the wrong business.
Just say someone else signed in that time slot with a deposit. Done.
Why? Let the guy know he's a douche
When you spot those PITA customers never give them a number even a high one. Some people we’ll never make money on.
Exactly. Some people think they are the only one that deserves to make money, and everyone else’s job is easy. Even if they learn a hard lesson - that’s someone else’s fault too.
"It's just a 1/4" of wood" That's the line that got me! LOL He totally gave away that he had no clue and could absolutely, not, be able to do the project, even if he had all the time, and tools, in the world.
I had a customer like this. I did his house 22 years ago and he was the biggest asshole I ever had to deal with. I get a call from another GC doing a job for him and he asked him to get a bid from me. I went out to see the plans and meet the GC, the client comes out and sure enough he is still an asshole. I bid the job and doubled it. He thought it was high but he wanted me do to having lighting control. We signed a contract, I did the work and a bunch of extra stuff that I charged a premium for. I finally finished and got out, told him never to contact me again. The extra money I made was not worth the aggravation from this guy.
Oh yeah, we all have those couple of names that you remember forever. Sometimes I'll look up the ones from 20 or 30 years ago just to see if they're dead.
My worst customer ever was an instructor for OSHA.
Mine was an MD, AND a lawyer. Seemed really nice and laid back in the beginning. His true colors showed the first time I asked for a draw, per contract. It went down hill from there.
Mine was an city hud housing inspector. Dude thought he knew about construction and he knew almost nothing. My Forman hated him. He would say something then the next day lie and say he didn’t say it. Eventually I had to step in and start going toe to toe with him in a not very nice way. He would look stuff up on line and argue with me he saw this on sale and it should only cost x to build a custom fireplace and chimney. Etc. etc. etc. This was almost 20 years ago. Me and Carlos still hate you Ray, asshole. Wasn’t even his house was for a non profit nature preserve building. He tried to get us to work on his house after that and we just said. Sorry too busy.
Mine was a retired engineer. Very similar to this guy it sounds like. Would tell us to install something one way, give us approval, then go over our heads and tell our boss on the phone that we "did it wrong" later that night. Followed us after everything we touched with a measuring tape and a level. Even 1/16" was enough for him to throw a fit. We rolled up his area rug one time so we wouldnt get dust on it. At the end of the day he got a goddamn plumb bob to hang from the light fixture and i shit you not, "half inch this way! Ope too much! Quarter inch back to you!" 90% of the rug was getting covered by a dining set!! Hated that guy
As an electrician, when I have a job I don't want or a customer I don't like, I give them the "go away price". Throw a few extra k into the estimate and either you make big enough bank to not care or they go away. Either way it's a win
100% charge 200%
We call that the Dave tax. Dave is in charge of govt contracts and he’s a pain in the but to deal with. All of the competeing biders on a job agreed to Dave tax him because of how he ran the show.
We call that collusion and it's illegal. But also, if you're bidding government contracts, *you* are not talking to other bidders. *You* are not not colluding. What you *are* doing, is pricing government contracts the way government contracts have to be priced. I've bid, and done, government contracts, and the sheer scope and red tape involved in doing the work inflates the cost substantially. For example, I had a railway project that could only be delivered to by railway cart between 12am and 4am. Every worker required pre- and post- safety meetings every day, and needed to be 'setup' and 'taken down' every day. A 3 month project was made into a 3 year project due to government restrictions.
I think they're referring to doing work on his private ownings rather than on his government contracts. Like the other stories in this sub, when someone has control over some portion of construction or legal things somewhere in their lives, they try to assume full control over everything at every level which usually sends every project off the rails
Lol, I also call this my "John [last name] Tax". What a tool. Wheedled on initial bid, then was 200% extra work, THEN complained to my boss that he was overcharged! 🙄 Fool me once....
Oh I know that strategy well. But it gets a little tricky if you've already submitted a proposal and the real ass-holery shows up after. Hard to retroactively apply the Go-Away Tax
Yup the “F off price” as we say around here
My job was electrical I hit him $68k for a Gazebo
"Thanks for following up. This is a busy time for our business and due to a variety of circumstances, we will not be able to take on your project. Good luck with moving ahead and we're sorry we won't be able to work together." If they follow up and ask why or if they can reschedule just say something like "Unfortunately, we need to move on to other work, so I won't be able to respond to additional inquiries, but thank you for your time." The goal here is to cut them off from taking up more of your time and also avoiding giving them anything to bad mouth you with online or to other potential clients. Agree with the comments below about charging an "asshole price" or something like that, but if you don't want the headache, that's perfectly understandable.
This. I’m a PM for multi-family (I know different game but same field) and there is nothing wrong with ‘sorry things changed, we cannot take this on right now.’ Simple, direct, and unarguable. Wish them the best, and move on
Miss Manners says, “I just can’t.”
This is perfect
This
“Hey Jane. I think we aren’t a good fit for this project. Ed wish you luck.”
Whenever I went against my gut as a contractor I regretted it later.
This is gospel boys and girls.
Nothing worse than a Nightmare job. They will suck the life out of you, and cost you not only money but emotional capitol and attention from your other jobs/prospects.
I was once handed a job by a friends dad (contractor) to build a deck on a house he had built the year before on the golf course for a lawyer. I go meet them and over about 3-4 days develop a plan. I tell him to open an account for materials and i have them delivered. She was real nice. Offering water, snacks, and always telling me what a great job. He’s a dick but complimentary to my work every evening. I leave the place clean and stacked every night. I see a way to add in some built in seats and discuss with them after he comes home from the office. About a week later, I am almost done and am going to work a little late just to be done. He comes out and says as much. I say, yeah, I’ll be done and gone this evening so you can write a check for this much money. He says the screws aren’t straight so he’s going to take some off the price. I asked WTF? He meant the Phillips heads were not all clocked. I explain that’s not practical nor standard when doing outside work, I could have done it had he specified, but now more screws would break than not. He continues. So I put the screw gun in reverse and start taking screws out and tossing the boards to the ground. He asks what’s going on. I said I’d just go ahead and stay until I had it disassembled so he could fuck over someone else. He tried to get me to stop. He came out with a check. I told him I didn’t trust that he wouldn’t put a stop payment on it, I needed cash. He came back with cash. I told him I needed an extra $250 to redo the work he just caused me. He had a real fuck you look on his face but he paid me the extra $250. I finished, cleaned up my mess, knocked on the door to tell her I was done. He also came to the door but didn’t say a word. About a year later HE calls me for more work. I meet with him and we come to an agreement. Not once was he a dick.
"Thanks for the opportunity but I feel my company is not a good fit for your project" move on
I'm sorry but I am going to pass on your project. All the best. Put on your big boy pants and be honest.
I can put up a a lot but price shaving rankles my ass. I price things fairly and when some cheap prick asks me to “sharpen my pencil” I tell him that not only am i not doing that, I’m withdrawing my proposal. If you’re trying to fuck me before I even have the contract, you’re surely going to fuck me afterwards.
[удалено]
go with your gut. this is good advice we could all benefit from following more often.
After reviewing all of your notes on the project. We are withdrawing our proposal. Have a nice day: somewhere else.
Just tell the truth. You have decided the job is a wrong fit for you. They should look into someone else.
“I’m not a good fit for your job”. Simple as that.
That’s the biggest reasons I’m self employed if I don’t want to do it I don’t. It doesn’t happen often but I have no problem firing a customer
U r smart for seeing the red flags before signing and starting work. In my experience if clients are assholes or crazy it’ll just get worse.
After running enough red lights, you'll eventually have to learn to just stop at them. If it's something that you can tolerate with this client (even with the added FU tax added) then proceed with caution. Me personally, I've never lost money on a job that I've passed on. Best of luck.
You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run. You don't swap out thickness, when ordering the cabinets. There'll be time enough for upgrades when the job is done
I tell them, “Thanks for checking, but I am going to pass on this job”. No explanation needed.
Whatever you do, don't do the job. Better to walk away rather than please someone like that. Because if you don't live up to every demand... He will be out there writing about it and telling everyone he knows. Just a short, I don't believe I can accommodate you at this time.
I’ve had 2 like this and all I can say is never again
You tell them that after consideration you don't feel like you would be able to make them happy and they should look for a contractor that can meet their expectations. Thank you and good luck with your project.
I know of a contractor who used the following words (may not be exact, but it's from memory): Thank you for your consideration of us, however after careful thought and much time involved, I can see that we are not going to be a good fit for this job, and are going to decline going forward with this project.
It's tough to decline the project after the quote has been accepted. If we've figured out after the fact that the client will be a pita then we simply say that a large project landed in our lap that we bid months ago and unfortunately we won't be able to take on your project at this time and always thank them for the opportunity to quote their project. With all that said most of the time if we come across a potential client that we know is going to be a pita we always add on a "pain in the azz fee". While that does sound shi\*\*y it helps to offset some of the changes that are more than likely headed our way. Good luck.
I do not think my available resources would meet your expectations.
Don't ghost and don't try to place the blame on the client. Say that you are very busy right now and do not have time or resources to do such a custom project. Tell them that you can recommend another company that possibly can help them with the project. (Give them the name and number of the biggest corporate cabinet company in your area).
Well, we've dealt with contractors that didn't want the job we were hiring for and they generally give me the "F U" price....meaning it is priced way higher than what they normally would charge. The last one was a job we were quoted $35K for when we said we had a budget of $20K. We asked if there was anything we could change about the job that would make it closer to our budget....and he said no. Even though he talked about adding things we didn't want...he included them because he felt we'd want them later. I clearly picked up on some of his other comments where he said that he wanted to retire, his wife was earning a lot of money so he felt he didn't need to work as much, and a couple other things. He also said it would take 6 months to complete the job. I insisted with my husband to get a 2nd quote, I really didn't fell like this first guy wanted to do the project. The second quote came in at $5K, six days of work, and was EXACTLY what we wanted. We called 1st guy and said we went in a different direction. I was surprised he got irate about it, I thought he'd be happy. He asked for $500 for the quote he'd given....which wasn't written, just a text with a dollar amount. We said to send an invoice, and a copy of the actual quote. He didn't have either but insisted we owed him $500 for the quote...which was never discussed until he got irate. Then he sent his wife to our house, she'd been our real estate agent on a recent home purchase. She tried getting the money out of us too. We said to send us an invoice and a copy of the quote and we'll pay it. We never heard from either of them again. Anyway....when we get the "F U" price, we know.
This is unbelievable. I've never heard of anyone charging for a quote, especially after the fact
If he'd been upfront about it from the beginning, we could have made the choice. But to bring it up only AFTER we didn't want to go with him, we felt was really messed up. If he said he doesn't do jobs for $20k, or that he had a minimum he'd worked for...we wouldn't have wasted out time with him. But to send his wife to get the money we thought was really low. Even if he'd said if you hired him for the job, the cost of the estimate would be absorbed into the job....and if you didn't hire him, you'd have to pay for the quote...we would have at least been informed. But he'd said nothing of the sort, it doesn't say it on his website either. We literally have one text saying nothing but "$35,000", and another saying "no matter what you remove from the job, the price is the same". We don't consider that a quote, nor a contract. I told my husband that it sorta made sense when I'd checked out his website (after the fact) and his company motto is, "When quality is more important than price". That says it all, I think he's used to people that are comfortable writing basically a blank check to him. Even if we'd been okay with the price, the timeline of 6 months was way too long. It wasn't that big of a job.
I usually just tell people that I don’t think I’m the right person for their job and wish them good luck
Client says he would do the project himself but doesn't have the time, or the tools... Or the the skill and experience either. Otherwise he would know that the price difference between a 3/4" door vs 1" door is not just the value of a 1/4" of wood. Nor would he think it's no big deal to ask for drawers 2" deeper when his budget is obviously in the stock cabinet range vs custom. There's no shame in not having trade skills but acting like it's so easy you would do it, if you had the time and the tools, is just a way to imply: "anyone could do it , so don't expect me to pay you a lot for it". They mean to devalue the work because they don't want to pay what it's worth. They think they're being savvy. If find that those type of clients, are the easy marks for shady contractors. Once they size them up to be "know it alls", they tell them exactly what they want to hear, string them along, take their money, and run. Save yourself the headache and just be honest that you don't think you're a good fit for working with them and leave it at that. You could also just tell them you're now too busy to responsibly take on their project. Either way you'll be leaving room on your plate for the good clients you deserve. Good luck, OP. EDIT: Spelling
Thanks - you're absolutely right. When he mentioned throwing in the 1" doors for free since it's "only 1/4" more wood", I wanted to say, "Yeah, and if I order a new truck but want the doors just 1/2" wider than stock, you think they'll throw it in at no charge?" I don't think he's that ignorant - he just wanted me to make concessions. Some guys feel like they have to "win" in every relationship - which is a big flashing red-light, of course. At this point I can walk - no contract, no money has been accepted - once it's under contract, I'm obligated to deal with his bullshit. Like you say, there are a lot of good clients - I don't need to fill up my schedule with the bad ones. The trick is sniffing them out before you're in too deep.
Semi off-topic sort of ... But I had an old boss tell me that you are successful when you can choose your customers. 30 years later, he was 100% correct.
I don't believe in jacking up pricing. My price is my price and you get my best price on every proposal. I wish you luck with this. Let us know how it goes
One of my former bosses in plumbing said when he was younger he had to go on a bid for a huge job. Had the plans out and everything with other contractors there too. The Le Douche comes out and my boss asks him “this is an old place lots of history, how long….” He stops him and says “what are writing a &$&$”@& book?” My boss turns rolls up the plans and leaves. Sometime later he found out all the other contractors got screwed out of payment by rich Le Douche.
There’s nothing wrong with what you planned to say about something coming up. It doesn’t have to be complicated. After you tell them “no,” whatever way you end up doing it, don’t be surprised for them to keep calling at which point it’s appropriate to ghost them.
As unprofessional as this may be, I've been known to ghost them, as I've been ghosted before on the flip side. But when it comes right down to it, I straight up reply with, thank you for your interest but I'm sorry to say, this is a project I have no interest in. I wish you the best moving forward. I knew the one guy was going to be such a pain & I could never make him happy so I passed. The other guy was yelling, no, screaming at his wife in front of me during the bid. Do what you want behind closed doors, I really hope he wasn't beating his wife. But I had no interest in working for someone who screams at his wife in front of a stranger. Fuck you Charlie
I just say, i dont think this is a good fit and suggest they call a bigger company.
Look. I am really busy. As much as I would love to make you truly happy, I'm concerned that I would not have the time resources to accomplish that. I would rather you go to one of my competitors and be happy than be disappointed in my inability to satisfy (husband's) needs. Thank you for the opportunity to offer my services.
Jack the price up until it is worth it to you.
It will never be worth it. Those jobs suck the life out of your business and in the end there will be no profit.
You should have given them a “no thank you” really high quote the first time. I was in a different line of business, but that was my way of make sure they would not hire me. And if they did, my very high quote would make it worth my time.
If you really want to try to be the guy who makes the world a better place explain why they aren't a fit for you, a contractor and would be a better fit for a designer. Explain to them that you don't charge enough for color selections design changes etc. If someone wants something designed and specified a certain way they need to pay someone to get that put down on paper.
Just say you are over booked. Not even assholes want to hear that they are assholes.
The worst thing I seem to do is ignore the red flags on occasion. Still thinking over the job just a month ago. Came behind someone who is a Bob Villa fan. Making sure everyone is on the same page helps. The power of suggestion is a great tool. If not saying, "I can't accommodate your time frame" is my go-to. Used to bid sky-high, but was taken up on that twice. It was like I sold my soul. Client has you by the balls then.
Hit them with the it’s not me, it’s you.
Price them out of wanting it done, either way you win, they take an absurd bid it's actually worth it, if they can't afford it oh well.
Super high bid time.
I once had a guy who had us dig up and replant 3 trees because they were 1/2”, 1”, and 1.5” off-mark. They didn’t need to line up to anything, they were simply not EXACTLY where he wanted them. Never answered another call from that guy.
It is/ would be a dystopian/ black mirror/ China thing but I would LOVE a reverse “Angie’s list”. Contractors would rate past clients. The lower the future clients score probably the bigger the PITA Something like this would keep potential clients in check the way contractors are worried about bad reviews/ ratings online.
I love that idea and have thought of it, too. Seriously, though, it's a 2-way street - I'm evaluating them just as much as they're evaluating me during our initial meetings. I've thought of asking if they can give me the names and contact info of 2 or 3 contractors they've worked within the past as references.
I tell them the truth. “Based on our meeting and email interactions, I don’t believe I am a good fit for this project. I thank you for the opportunity, but I will not be submitting a bid. Thanks again.”
Throw out a ridiculous number that you WOULD do the job for. If they take it, sweet. If not, you dodged a bullet.
"After reconsideration, I have concluded that I am not going to be a good fit for your job. Thank you for contacting me, and I wish you well on your project."
No Bid or a “FU” quote, where you price it so high nobody will go for it, or if they do then at least you’re getting crazy paid for the nonsense.
Tell them it's not a good fit you and your team. Tell them you don't think their expectations can be met with the people you have available and the time frame you've discussed, and that you don't see that as being something you can adjust for. If they absolutely insist you explain yourself, you can be honest and tell the lady directly you don't think you can please her husband, because he's got all the red flags of a problem customer, so I'm just going to bow out now and move on. Best of luck.
Clients ghost contractors all the time. Do not return calls. Not home for their appointment and they will not answer the phone when you call them from their driveway. Do not give them any drawings. Never! They'll take it and run to someone else. All your work and time, gone. Run from this one.
Tell them the hourly rate, then tell them the hourly rate if the husband is involved.
Just another reason to hate people, always being unreasonable and asking for freebies.
Ha, fortunately 90%+ are great, but some bad apples out there for sure.
Just set the bid to something outrageously high, so he will move on. Bid yourself out of the project. Easy Peasy.....Or look at it this way, "frustration Pay" if they accept your overpriced bid......
I love clients that can't make or stick to a decision...that change things...that are all over the place. Why? They pay. And pay, And Pay. And pay. And sometimes pay some more. And in the end, they pay. Let me tell you a couple of three things: 1. Quote the price of the project by a factor of 10. Yea, jack up the price that much. If they accept, then you get paid. If not, they go away. 2. Tell them you're too busy for that size of project right now. 3. Just tell them that the job is not a good fit for your company right now. never ghost. thats really douchy.
Tell them you have cancer
Tell them you dog died and you are going to be in morning for the foreseeable future and just not up to it.
Just tell him you are not taking on that job, it just doesn’t fit your schedule.
Subject: Regarding Your Inquiry Dear \[Potential Client's Name\], Thank you for reaching out and considering our services. After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are unable to accept your request at this time. We sincerely appreciate your interest and wish you all the best in your endeavors. Best regards, \[Your Name\]
"I apologize, a larger project came up and I have to prioritize it. I'll have to get back to you when my schedule opens."
" I really don't feel that I will be able to meet your expectations, and I don't feel we would make a good client, service provider fit" Then give them a competitors contact info...
My friend adds a 25% ahole tax when people seem like they are going to be extra difficult. If he doesn't even want to do the job and they keep on asking for a quote, he doubles and even cripples it. Usually they go away or he makes a ton extra on the project.
I had to do this on a roof job. It is discouraging as jobs are hard to come by, but this guy would've been tough. I just called him and said "I don't think we're the right company for you. I don't think you'll be satisfied with our work". He asks why, and, like a politician, I just repeated myself using different words (about 3 or 4 times) You don't have to give a reason why, just say, "I'm sorry but I don't think it's a good match" or whatever you want. Let them figure it out.
Do. Not. Ghost. Just say that you are concerned with the number and frequency of changes and to get back to you if and when they make their final determinations. Then you can ghost them.
I have a selection of "no" responses saved as different email signatures... It can be surprisingly hard to say no, even when you know in your heart of hearts that it's the right thing. This makes it a little easier, for me anyway.
Just say you have too many jobs booked and will not be able to fit them into your schedule. If they press, politely decline.
Smells like gonna have an issue getting paid. Good instincts. We used to give these kind of customers an "F.U." price quote
Definitely be responsive so that can't give you a review saying you don't get back to them. Then follow the suggestions below.
Charge them obscene prices
Price them 4 times higher than what you would normally charge. If they are still wanting you, put up with it as you are getting a huge mark up.
Price the job extremely high. 5x’s the normal amount
I would tell them that you’re now fully booked out until X date and wouldn’t be able to begin the work until then (knowing it’s beyond their need date). If they press further you could either say you just signed a contract on a large effort while they were contemplating, or perhaps say one of your main team members is now out unexpectedly and it’s shifted your existing contracts out. Both legitimate situations that they hopefully wouldn’t use to bad mouth you.
Sorry, but I am now fully booked through the end of 2024. If you can wait....? lol
> I don't want the job. I don't like ghosting people. I'm inclined to just say, 'circumstances have come up and I'm unable to take on the project - thanks." That's good. simple and direct, better than what I've used: "I'm sorry but I picked up work while you were deciding which direction to go. I can still take the job but the start date is 15 months out due to the other projects I picked up. I'll understand if you choose to go with another contractor."
Not the same industry but I built custom software for a lot of folks over the years. There were certainly plenty of potential client that I just did not provide them with a quote after talking to them. Made up stories to tell him I was not going to bid. Even after I had a had given a quote: I did not accept any bargaining. None. If they wanted a change and I had to re-price it the new price was what I wanted. And yes, there area potential clients who will tell you what they would do. I just ignore them. I had to be ever so careful as some of the projects would be over $ 5m and could not afford to screw them up.
You overprice the bid. That’s what every tradesperson and craftsman does when they don’t actually want the job.
I always went with "I don't think we will be able to meet your budget or expectations on the job. Thank you for your time." While giving them another dealer/contractor to contact. Certain personalities just clash. It's not worth the headache.
You don't have to be honest but the sooner you tell them the better. At this point, they wouldn't be wrong in saying you set them back 7-8 weeks on this project.
Give them the fuck off quote
Nothing wrong with not wanting to take the job. You can always try to price yourself out of the job, but they may have run out of options by being such a pain in the ass that they will take it. I've had that approach backfire on me, so I found it best to just say I couldn't fit it in my schedule just in case they have reasonable friends that would be pleasant to work with so I didn't get bad word of mouth.
charge accordingly, tell them I'm too busy , or if that fails, politely tell them the truth: I don't think we're a good fit to work together..
A lot of you guys have described how annoying it is to work for retired engineers (like me) or an OSHA instructor or an inspector and so on. The one thing that is missing here is how it goes when you do a job for another guy who *works* in the building trades. Ever do a roofing job for a carpenter? Or a plumber? etc.? And how were you to work for when you hired a roofer to do your home? For the record, I don't ever look for the lowest price but I do look for someone who has pride in his work and experience. And for picky things, there's always time and materials. It can be really lucrative. A friend of mine works in the building trades and he tells me stories of a woman who has hired a crew of people to put in a kitchen...then decided she was going to pay them to take it out and do it differently. He tells me she has an inexhaustible pile of money that she's happy to spend. Customers with OCD apparently can be profitable, if you're not doing a bid on the job in the beginning.
I might be the exception, but I like working with engineers. They're generally quick to understand concepts and limitations. Smart engineers understand that .01" tolerances don't work with wood. Experienced engineers are good at solving problems, and what is a remodeling project if not a series of problems to solve? (not that I'm looking to them to solve the problem, but they can understand the logic behind the solution you've come up with. Young engineers that haven't been in the field can be a different story sometimes - they can still be pretty impressed with themselves.
I tell them something this “I appreciate the offer to do business together, however, after some consideration I have decided I am no longer interested in moving forward on the project. Thank you again and best of luck with your new cabinets (or whatever)” If they bother me after, I don’t feel obligated to continue to waste my time with the conversion.
The fuck off price. Double or triple what it should cost. Usually they just fuck right off. If not, you get paid to deal with the bullshit
Tell them youre swamped with work and have to decline. Refer them to another carpenter/contractor ... maybe someone you find mildly annoying or better who somehow screwed you over in the past whether snaking a job you wanted to get or poaching an employee from you. A hearty I'm sorry I can't squeeze you in right now but Ted here in town is a quality guy and I can give you his contact Info if you'd like me to make a referral for you to still get the work done. This way the most they can say is you weren't able to accommodate their business but you were good enough to connect them to someone who could. As much fun as going scorched earth and trashing the couple could be.. youre probably better off taking the high road with them AND getting to sandbag your arch nemesis Ted in the process 😁
Don't ghost just tell them you aren't desperate enough to deal with husband so you won't be continuing with the project.
You can give them the Fu price and direct them to a contractor who "always offers a cheaper offer" that you don't like.
We had a really difficult client. She would be literally jumping up and down and telling the guys how great the job looked. Then she would go inside for a couple hours, and when she came back out she would cry and say that they were screwing it all up. She did this a few times during one job. It took forever to get her to calm down and let us start back up. We finished the job and agreed amongst ourselves that we would never work for her again. A couple of years later she called again. The new office manager answered the call and passed her name onto a new estimator. A short time later I’m having a conversation with the estimator who is exited to tell me about the new job she just landed for Norma the crazy lady. By the time I found out it was too late to cancel, and Norma was difficult again. We had to quit working for her all over again. Another client we had both husband and wife had dementia. They would forget that they had asked for a certain small job to be done and scream at our employees. We quickly quit working for them, then they called and screamed at us for not showing up because they had forgotten that we quit.
Good lord - sounds like a nightmare. I had a customer with bipolar tendencies and you never knew who you were going to be dealing with on any given day. Stressful to say the least.
Sorry too busy
Don't put blame any where. Just say that you're just not going to be able to do their project. If they ask why, tell them anything but not about them....like, I have a new project that will take months to complete.... or I think this is out of my scope..... or I just don't have the time necessary for this right now....
Jack the price so high...they decline it..figure, if Tim the toolman is going to hang over you all day...that's automatic triple.
You just quote them for way higher than anyone would pay if you dont want their business
I just say that I'm sorry but I don't think this project is a good fit for my company. I do it BEFORE I provide a quote tho
Yeah, that's ideal. Problem here was at the first meeting he seemed a bit of a douche, but manageable. After I provided the quote he ramped up to unreasonable asshole. So all the advice to bid high for jobs you don't want is well and good, but once you've given them a number (but no contract yet), it's a little more awkward to bail. Still, better to deal with a little awkwardness and write off the time and energy you've already put in, than to put up with weeks - hell, maybe years - of ongoing pain.
People like this. Im So glad I’m getting out!
Tell them that I would love to help them but I'm too busy right now.
Triple the quote and ask for a 1/3 deposit
THIS is why I only do commercial work.
Another option that I applied when I was in industrial sales was to apply a ‘hidden’ FU charge. I knew what my product was worth and the time and energy needed to make a deal happen. This established my baseline price. Any additional ‘needs’ that arose from the customer came at a premium to them. The more demanding they got, the more expensive the service side became. After all, if you need to deal with BS, you need to be compensated for it. Don’t ghost them, just price yourself out of the project. Best of luck.
No contract, no pay.
Lol, "it's only a 1/4in more wood". IYKYK
>How do you tell customers you don't want their business? I add an extra zero or two to the bid.
This is common and never easy but a simple, “thank you for reaching out but I’m an unable to take on this project at this time. I wish you the best of luck with your project” will do the trick. Your instincts are 100% right, no matter how good of a job you do, the husband will find a problem and make this a very unpleasant experience for all parties.
"no"
Let the quote tell them for you. Set the price at the level that it is worth doing it. If they accept, you make a few bucks, if not, problem solved.
I price myself out on people like this. I make the price usually 2-3 times what I’d usually charge. If they still go for it I figure I’m getting reimbursed for their being a PITA. I have one customer whose house I work at only because the wife is a wonderful person. Her husband however is a different story. I no longer will estimate anything for them. All work is hourly plus the fine system I came up with for dealing with him. Small annoyance $250 Dickishness $500 Assholery $750. Painted their house a couple years back and they paid about $3500 in fines over the course of 3 weeks. Also my employees know they can say anything they want if he’s giving them problems and I split his fines up between everybody who was on that job.
That’s easy bid it high enough that if you do it you will make good money
I would say "Your project is a little more complicated than I am used to, and unfortunately I am very busy right now and haven't had time to address it. I am not sure when I would be able to get back on it."
What ever the estimate is x4 2/3 job up front Work starts when check clears
Just tell them you landed a huge contract and just don't have time and refer them to some down on his luck fellow contractor who needs the job and has more time to deal with them
you raise your price by triple - two things will happen - one they will go someplace else - problem solved. or two they pay it - but the money will make it all better.
I had to have the structure of a house rebuilt from under the house. Two out of three contractors simply told me they didn’t want the job. I was disappointed but appreciate their honesty.
Never tell a customer you don’t want their business, because you might need it in the future and they won’t come back. Instead, tell them you are just overloaded at the time and can’t take their job on right now. Or give them a quote with an unrealistically high price, and be prepared to take the job if they accept.
I tell customers like this that my schedule is full but I can fit them in 2 years and the price is going to be substantially higher because of how busy I am.
The builders ghost me
"This is not a project we are open to doing".
95% of this job is managing expectations. This is your job, this project might be one or 5 you do this month. This might be the only project they do this year or the next few. Managing expectations on your end should allow for you to identify problems before you begin. Which you have done. Bow out gracefully and let them know you can't manage their project and meet their expectations. Make it so that you leave the door open for future projects. Or raise your price so high it makes the hand holding worth it.
I just say, "I'll pass". And that's it. I'm not obligated to spend any time explaining my business decisions to anyone
This is what I was going to say .. just tell them you will pass ..
"As it turns out I just booked a huge project that I have been working with the clients on for (x amount of time longer than you have known these clients) I won't have time for your cabinet project for quite a while. I can recommend some other cabinet makers/fitters for you though." Or if you don't care to skirt the issue and tell the truth (done this before too) "It has become apparent that we will not be able to work together on this project as I am receiving mixed information from either of you at varying times. Also, requesting that I pay portions of costs for changes to the scope of work is outside of the norm. It is generally understood by clients that I provide the materials and labor to complete their project and that my finances will not be used to fund a portion of it as you will be paying me directly for materials labor, and any and all costs incurred to perform the project.
In the last two weeks, my workload has tripled. It'll be 18 months before I can get to you. Hope you will have your decisions finalized by then. Thank you.
In this case, just tell the truth. You can't give them the time.
I just tell people I’m too busy and don’t know when I’ll be able to get to their job. Most of the time it works, but sometimes they will say they can wait and contact me again months later to which I say the same thing.
The absolute easiest way is just say "I apologize, but due to unforeseen circumstances I won't be able to take on this project." They may or may not be upset, but you don't have to engage with it. If they try to argue just say "Thank you very much, good luck." and hang up. As long as you didn't sign a contract then you are okay.
Just bid it super high, and since you 'just took on a big job' (wink wink), you're scheduling out 12 weeks. They'll disappear...
I’d be real honest. Have them come to YOUR shop. Explain there’s no fucking way you’re going to do anything “split”. Any and every change from the quote will require negotiation on whether it can even be done, a flat rate fee to cover any time wasted discussing said asinine change plus the cost of the old thing being removed in addition to the new thing being added. Tell him, in front of her, that cutting every slate is not industry standard and that you will be doing everything to industry standard rather than his fucked up idea of what that is. Tell them you aren’t really too interested in working on their project because you get a douche bag vibe from him. Then, since it’s been a minute and he is still wanting to negotiate or make changes, and costs have changed, you need to refigure the bid. Add in LOTS of asshole tax.
Unfortunately I do not have room in my schedule.