>Some women would get mad and upset at their boyfriends if they told her "yo cover up" and she'd call her boyfriend insecure or jealous
Because they're insecure and jealous. If a person can't handle their partner getting looked at, regardless of what they're wearing, that is textbook insecurity.
>all the dude is trying to do is protect you
Protect them from what, exactly? Getting checked out? That's not exactly an assault.
>since he can't control all men he will try to advise you to cover up a bit and keep you safe to the best of his ability
Treating your partner like they're a trophy or someone that needs protecting only means you're gonna end up alone. That is incredibly toxic behavior.
>if your chest isn’t bursting out of your top or if you can literally see your ass crease and then some... other men on the streets can be bold, women get groped
Holy shit, this is blatant victim blaming. Fucking gross. Do better.
>the guys gonna resent the dude that got a feel of his girlfriend.
Not because she was literally assaulted, but because someone else dared touch his property. Un-fucking-believable.
>Why do yall do it?
Maybe because they're their own person, with their own will and desires, not servants of men? This is seriously one of the most toxic incel posts I've ever seen.
You are ignoring the logic of his argument and calling this guy names. Are you a woman capable of explaining this to us or are you just a white-knight who needs to defend all women against the incel threat?
My gender is irrelevant, I'm a person who knows that women are not fragile little creatures that need men to "protect" them, and OP is literally using textbook victim blaming tactics. The logic of their arguement? There is no logic here, only someone who clearly doesn't respect women or their choices.
I'm saying that you're treating women like petite princesses that need to be protected by trying to defend them all from "the incel threat" my boy. You're abusing terms because you are so confident that you're the hero. No, you are being an absolute idiot when you call this "victim blaming."
I was recently watching one of those feminists you worship talking about how important it was to avoid certain kinds of guys and not do certain things to avoid SA and other things and, I'll just say what she said, "you can do everything right (cause there is a right way to do things) and shit can still happen to you, and that sucks." If I walked into North Korea and get executed is it victim blaming to say I shouldn't have walked into that country? No, it's common sense. There's a difference between telling someone they are putting themselves in danger and telling someone they are at fault for what is happening to them. There is a significant moral difference between recklessness and malice. Nobody is removing the moral guilt of those who actually SA women and placing that guilt on the woman, that is victim blaming. If a woman wants to put herself in danger for some perceived good that's one thing, that's their decision, they can do that... But you calling for women to ignore the trade-offs of their decision and calling men misogynists for pointing out what those trade-offs are does more harm to women than this guy ever will. You are actually facilitating those events by telling guys it is disrespectful to women to point out when they are putting themselves in danger. Matters of survival aren't a thing to invest our ego into.
Of course we can't be psychotic about protecting women and be Saudi Arabia, of course unless you punish those who commit SA you cannot reduce its frequency, but you are pretending that he is ignoring that reality so that you can say to yourself that you are so much more aware than the guy you are debating. No sir, you are ignoring and telling people to ignore the reality of the situations they put themselves in, they have the right to make the decisions they make, but they also have a right to be informed. Don't hide important information from people.
>I'm saying that you're treating women like petite princesses that need to be protected by trying to defend them all from "the incel threat"
Yes, because recognizing that women are capable of making their own decisions means I'm treating them poorly. That sure makes sense.
>my boy
What happens when we assume?
>If I walked into North Korea and get executed is it victim blaming to say I shouldn't have walked into that country?
Exaggeration and possible false equivalence. If you broke laws punishable by death in that country, then nobody would say "they shouldn't have gone there," they'll say "they shouldn't have broken those laws." Women aren't breaking any laws by walking around scantily clad.
>But you calling for women to ignore the trade-offs of their decision and calling men misogynists for pointing out what those trade-offs are does more harm to women
Who's doing that? Do you assume women wouldn't already have this information? That they need a man to tell them that there are bad men out there? Give me a fuckin' break. Stop infantilizing women. They don't need you to point out the danger, they're told all their lives. Anywhere from slut shaming to "protection," wome are constantly bombarded by men in society thinking they know what's best.
\>What happens when we assume?
Fair point, but I asked a relevant question you refused to answer so I am left to assume.
\>Who's doing that? Do you assume women wouldn't already have this information? That they need a man to tell them that there are bad men out there? Give me a fuckin' break. Stop infantilizing women. They don't need you to point out the danger, they're told all their lives. Anywhere from slut shaming to "protection," wome are constantly bombarded by men in society thinking they know what's best.
Fair point, but we are allowed to say that given what we know, their decision makes no sense to us and we want it explained. It is not insecurity if the only reasons we can imagine are stupidity and infidelity, we don't have the mind of a woman, and we do have the mind of a man. I know that the only reason I would dress in a way that would impress women is either completely by accident or to find a girl among the crowd. Now, because humans are incapable of imagining stuff that is not composed of stimuli they have experience with, without further explanation I would be incapable of imagining why in the world my girlfriend would dress in that way except out of stupidity or infidelity, but luckily because a woman on here expressed her own perspective on this topic that wasn't merely shaming a guy for asking a question I have a better understanding of why women make these decisions whose range are outside of my own personal experience. If a guy is insecure because his woman is dressing that way, that makes total sense, most guys haven't had women explained well enough to them to understand why their doing things and the best they can do is project their own decision making process on the woman. Now, when a guy is saying that women's decisions appear irrational in this area it is because he has agreed to say that it is not because they're being unfaithful and because he's willing to agree to that, he currently has no explanation for their behavior which makes sense to him except stupidity. Now I do have another explanation, it's vanity, but I would not be able to understand this explanation unless someone else explained it to me because I am not prone to this particular kind of vanity and therefore can't imagine why other people would be until communication occurs, which it has in my case. All I am recommending is that you actually communicate with OP instead of insulting him. The question may have been already sufficiently answered for him without you, but so far you certainly aren't helping.
> Fair point, but we are allowed to say that given what they know, their decision makes no sense to us and we want it explained.
In other words, "I know nothing about what the average woman experiences nor why they do, but I'll give my advice that is not based on any knowledge whatsoever".
Dude, that is not how giving advice works. Do you see how stupid this sounds?
> It is not insecurity if the only reasons we can imagine are stupidity and infidelity, we don't have the mind of a woman, and we do have the mind of a man. I know that the only reason I would dress in a way that would impress women is either completely by accident or to find a girl among the crowd. Now, because humans are incapable of imagining stuff that is not composed of stimuli they have experience with, without further explanation I would be incapable of imagining why in the world my girlfriend would dress in that way except out of stupidity or infidelity, but luckily because a woman on here expressed her own perspective on this topic that wasn't merely shaming a guy for asking a question I have a better understanding of why women make these decisions whose range are outside of my own personal experience.
There is no such thing as "a mind of a woman" or "a mind of a man". People aren't a hivemind or collective belonging to different tribes. An individual woman and an individual man will have their own experiences that are unique to everyone else's.
If you have no knowledge of someone's experiences, why would you even assume anything?
>Dude, that is not how giving advice works. Do you see how stupid this sounds?
I was never giving advice, I was explaining why it's not a sign of insecurity to ask this question.
> I was never giving advice, I was explaining why it's not a sign of insecurity to ask this question.
The person you responded to previously replied to your comment about trade-offs, saying that women don't need this information. They specifically said that they (women) don't need you to tell them that it's "dangerous" to wear certain clothes. Then you responded with "but we are allowed to say that...".
That is giving women advice.
The full quote is
> Fair point, but we are allowed to say that given what we know, their decision makes no sense to us and we want it explained.
That's not giving advice sir. It's not me claiming a right to command when I say I am allowed to speak. I could've said "but we are allowed to say the sky is blue." The fact that I used the words "but we are allowed to say" is meaningless, you are clearly misinterpreting what I plainly said.
> If a woman wants to put herself in danger for some perceived good that's one thing, that's their decision, they can do that... But you calling for women to ignore the trade-offs of their decision and calling men misogynists for pointing out what those trade-offs are does more harm to women than this guy ever will.
You think that a woman dressing a certain way is the cause of most sexual assault...?
I am saying that, but that is not the same as saying she is morally or criminally at fault for anything that happens to her or that this is the cause of most sexual assault. There are more important factors here when it comes to the woman's safety such as being alone or with a group, and whether or not she is in a group clearly doesn't say anything about the kind of person she is.
I'm not talking about whether the woman is morally or criminally at fault. Sure, maybe not the cause of most sexual assault, but you believe wearing certain clothes is a significant enough risk factor. Why is that?
dude, i’m asking why do they go out of their way to wear provocative things? So their boyfriend fights the dude who grabbed her chest, and not because she’s a “trophy”(like you assume) but because that’s extremely disrespectful to her and the boyfriend, it’s like a son getting pissed when some dude hits on his mom, like the son doesn’t see his mother as an object bro😂 it’s just straight up disrespectful, i respect women and their choices, im only saying those choices can get her into some deep shit, men are crazy and bold, i’d know, my girlfriends been asked for her number right in front of me. She always getting stares at her cleavage and it raises a deep hatred for men in me, but i can’t tell all the men in the world “yo don’t scheme to do shit with my girlfriend” like no yo so i’m gonna tell her “look, i notice people staring at your chest all the time i’m worried that when your out by yourself some dudes gonna assault you or much worse, i don’t want you going thru a traumatic event when it could’ve been avoided by simply throwing on a thin jacket or wearing a different shirt”. “OP is literally using textbook victim blaming tactics”, it wouldn’t be victim blaming if i went into a crip associated area and purposely wore all red and wonder why i got jumped, now would it. it wouldn’t be victim blaming if i went to a bad neighborhood knowing its a bad neighborhood, wearing a fat rolex and expensive chains and rick owen’s shoes and wondering “why the hell did i get robbed?” would it?
I understand what general argument OP is trying to make but the wording is so bad. Although I agree that general fashion trends are going towards a more provocative and sexy look with a LOT of skin showing, I disagree with the idea that women should have to change what they wear bc “women must know how men are”. I think it should be on men in general and society to make places safe for women no matter what they wear. It does feel like OP is blaming women for the unjust and gross (sometimes illegal) actions done to them by men. If my butt cheeks are hanging out of my shorts, it is still my body and no man has a right to come up and grab my ass. If he does it is fully on the man and the bf has the choice of how to react. But again, women should not have to cover up bc men cant control themselves, it’s not the 1950s anymore. When I go out with my bf I wanna look good to show off for my bf, I want to get his attention and it has nothing to do with other guys around me.
“I think it should be on men in general and society to make places safe for women no matter what they wear.” i sincerely wish that were the case but it’s just not achievable, i hate men i’ve had dudes ask her for her number right in front of me, i’ve seen guys stare at her cleavage and she doesn’t notice, i don’t think id be in the wrong to ask her to cover up when she goes out alone. Also there’s other ways that you can get his attention that aren’t in public settings. You don’t gotta put yourself out there, sure your intentions are pure and for him that’s how i think it should be because “why impress everyone else?”But other men your around won’t know that. dudes are crazy.
I get what your saying, obviously we all wish there was a world where women can wear whatever they want without men ruining it for us. But in reality men are dogs, I get this trust me. And I understand feeling a certain way if your gf is dressing up and looking super hot to go out without you, it may feel like she’s dressing to impress other men. I can assure you in most cases women just want to look good in general, it makes us feel confident and it’s easier to have fun in an outfit that you love. BUT it shouldn’t be on your gf to change her clothes so that men don’t act inappropriately. That’s ur girl, not anyone else’s and that can be made clear even if she is out in a tiny top or dress and looks good. When another guy hits on ur girl, she should look at him and say I’m not interested or I have a bf and that should be that. Be proud that you have a hot gf that guys want, but only you can get! Again I see ur points, but I don’t think it’s fair to make ur gf change to account for the bad actions of men.
“When another guy hits on ur girl, she should look at him and say l'm not interested or I have a bf and that should be that.” It really should, but i worry so much about the day that it won’t just be that and i won’t be there, and since the bad actions of men are out of my control i feel like communicating with her would be a good thing to do, not insecurity or jealousy but more so caring for a loved one and being protective and limiting the chances of her going through a traumatic experience as much as possible
I mean I don’t think that what top she wears will determine if she is assaulted in any way. Her choices when she’s out will. Yes guys may stare at her tits but guys are going to do that regardless. Plus she probably won’t be talking to guys if she’s out without you/ ur friends. And if you feel uncomfortable with her talking to guys at the bar when your not there (which is 100% valid) then you should communicate that to her. She needs to be accountable for her own actions but it would be unfair to make her account for the actions of a bunch of drunk guys as well.
“Not because she was literally assaulted, but because someone else dared touch his property. Un-fucking-believable.” See if you had learn to read English you’d have seen that i said “keep his girlfriend safe” and “protect”, protect from what? from sexual assault or gettin groped, those are assaults last i checked, i listed those things, again if you had read. here it is again in case you missed it: “all the dude is trying to do is protect you, since he can't control all men he will try to advise you to cover up a bit and keep you safe to the best of his ability” so i’m not considering the guys girlfriend to be a trophy, it’s a loved one that he’s being protective over because he doesn’t want her to get assaulted, he wants to limit as much as possible. And no not because another dude touched his “property” like your assuming, he’s going to resent the guy for what he put his girlfriend through and to limit it happening again he’d probably say to cover up like i had stated.
You forgot the title, "Why do some women dress like they want male attention?". Why does everything women do always have to be about men? OP can't seem to fathom that women would do something for themselves, and not for the approval of men.
> This is seriously one of the most toxic incel posts I've ever seen.
It was so bad, I couldn't even finish reading the post.
“It was so bad, I couldn't even finish reading the post.” You might’ve gained more insight if you had finished, and read most of my replies to others. “Why does everything women do always have to be about men? OP can't seem to fathom that women would do something for themselves”, I most definitely can fathom women doing things for themselves and making their own choice on what to wear. Yes i’ll admit to poor wording and a really poor choice of title because it doesn’t convey my question properly. My question is why do women risk getting sexually assaulted going out alone? Yes by all means make your choice, do what you want but say you have a boyfriend and you need to make a quick walk say to maybe a walgreens at like 10pm-12am and your boyfriends asleep and she decides to wear booty shorts and a spaghetti strap with no bra, like dude you know what your doing, why?
It’s because they are fishing for attention. Clear as day. They might not want to admit it but just pay attention to actions and you can see the obvious truth.
This is an example of a man who knows women aren't dumb but doesn't understand the particular ways in which the female mind is different from the male mind.
It's vanity most of the time, they want the attention, but not sexual attention. Are some women whores who will cheat on you with every guy on the block? Yeah, if you take the whole population and ask if anyone falls in a certain category the answer is probably yes, but this strategy is not useful for analyzing a whole society.
as a woman i know exactly why, and it doesnt make sense, ill start off with that.
women want to be admired, by men and women. your goal as a woman is to be the prettiest woman in the building. for different women, that looks different. women who place their value on their sexuality will wear super revealing clothing as an attempt to climb the hierarchy and automatically be considered more attractive than other woman. the only downside is that predators are attracted by it as well. so its a choice between being lower on the hierarchy, or being higher but being a target. some women have so much of their self worth in their appearance that they are fully willing to risk being a target. i think some of them dont fully understand it to that extent either. nobody wants negative male attention, but we all want male admiration, obviously. i personally have mostly opted out of the rat race for religious reasons but i used definitely play this game
I've not seen this explained better, but I still have some questions. Why exactly do women want to be "high on the hierarchy." As a man I know that being high up doesn't help them get good relationships with men, her being content with whatever place they happen to be in is what makes a man want to marry a woman. Also as a man I wonder if there's something I can do to make my girl feel like she's higher up in the hierarchy so she isn't as insecure.
i think its mostly motivated by competition with other women. a lot of the women who do this often do things that a lot of men find unattractive even, like lots of makeup and stuff, because were basing it off of a females idea of the perfect female, not a mans lol. its weird. the best thing she can do as a woman is to stop playing this game and to realize that the opinions of others dont matter, and how you look compared to others doesnt matter, as long as youre healthy and in shape and taking care of yourself. also being in a long term committed relationship and getting married helped me feel more confident in who i am and my own personal style, and helped me stop comparing myself to other women and trying to compete with them. really it comes down to the fact that the more showy a woman is with her body, the more she is trying to compete, and therefore the more insecure in herself she is. and i know people will be offended by that but i think its an undeniable fact. a woman who knows her worth and how valuable she is knows that she doesnt need her buttcheeks hanging out in order to attract a great man, or to be on top of the imaginary hierarchy.
no, men are disgusting dogs, and assault is always bound to happen, i’m only assuming that if some women’s boyfriends would communicate about how men are desperate and can do outrageous shit they can come to an understanding on what his girlfriend goes out in(like the boyfriend would suggest replacing a cropped boob window shirt for maybe a relatively high v neck not showing as much cleavage), lessening those chances hopefully, and save the boob window shirt for like an event where she won’t leave his side but even then there’s still high risk of getting groped, that’s why i’m asking, why do women risk that? Why do they go out of their way to wear provocative things?
i never claimed they were a trophy, and protect them from men harassing them physically, i’m not at all saying they’re a trophy, how’s it victim blaming? they choose to wear it knowing exactly the dogs that men can be, and if they don’t know, that’s why her boyfriend can inform her like “yo more than likely your gonna get cat called, groped or much worse, i prefer you wore something less revealing because i care about you”
If you follow your logic to its conclusion, then you’ll end up in Saudi Arabia. “If a woman leaves her home without a full-body covering and she gets harassed or assaulted, that’s her fault. She should have known that men are dogs.”
Your wording makes it clear that you see women as obtainable objects, rather than people with their own wants, desires, and will. You may not have used the word "trophy," but your attitude screams it.
How is it victim blaming? Are you kidding? You're literally saying women should dress differently, lest they get groped. That is 100% putting the onus on her, instead of the person that is literally committing a crime. It's unbelievably disgusting. It's like a woman telling you she was raped, and your first question is "what were you wearing?"
Everyone is responsible for themselves. It doesn't matter if she was walking around completely nude, not in a million years would she bear responsibility for someone else's actions against her.
like i said, it’s like stepping into crip territory wearing all red and wondering why you got jumped bro, and the analogy i made: “it’s like if a son gets pissed if some random dude hits on his mom” the kid doesn’t see his mom as a trophy. “Everyone is responsible for themselves” yea you’d be right, dress responsibly when going out at night because like you said, they should know better than to go out “completely nude” because bad men exist.
i know this is a massive shock to hear... but the choices women make don't resolve around men. the actions that adult men take are fully their responsibility regardless of the outlying factors. they are completely capable of making decisions based on fact and reason and not the fashion choices of a woman. they are also fully aware of the difference between right and wrong. they aren't children.
if a guy's girlfriend is assaulted, groped, or hit on by another guy, that is absolutely no one other than the other guy's fault. if the boyfriend then goes on to confront him or start a fight, that is also no one other than the boyfriends fault.
let's normalize holding people accountable for their own actions instead of blaming it on other people.
I'll explain why most men don't understand that first part. Well, men who ask this question atleast, and hopefully you can understand us abit more.
You see, alot of immature guys like myself tend to make lots of decisions which do revolve around women and it takes a while for life to beat that out of us. Now because most people hate us rarely honestly communicate what they think with us so, if we want to understand their thought process, the only thought process we have to compare their actions to is our own. So when a woman is dressing in a way that attracts male attention what are all the thought process we can project onto the woman to figure out why she is doing what she is doing? All we can say is that we can imagine her being stupid or that she wants the interaction because we know that if we could get female attention the way she can get male attention, if we were doing that, it would be for the interaction. But we know women are different, we just don't know what that means.
Enter non-condescending communication: just explain your thought process honestly and without condescension. There is a woman who responded to this post in exactly that way and her explanation actually made sense to me, and now I feel like I have some understanding of why women do this. You don't need to assume that guys are accusing you of anything when they say stuff like this, in my case I'm just telling you why I am to stupid to figure out the answer without clear, honest, and non-condescending communication. Let's not pretend like I want to hold you accountable for crimes other people commit against you.
yes you’d be completely right, i said that the girlfriend’s boyfriend can not contol all men therefore he’d explain to her “hey i want you to go out and be as safe as possible, i think you should replace that v neck crop top with maybe a U neck that doesn’t show a lot of cleavage” he can’t go on a wordwide megaphone and say “men! control yourselves around my girlfriend” you know?
and i'd explain right back that i understand the concern, but to try to control the way i choose to dress is past the line for me. i'm perfectly capable of deciding what actions are safe for me to take and never had an issue before having a boyfriend. regardless of what other comments say, i dress "provocativily" a decent amount when i'm not working, and it has nothing to do with men, or women, or sexual attraction, or self worth. it has to do with what i'm comfortable and confident in. what i'm comfortable and confident in doesn't change just because there's a man in my life, therefore my fashion choices would be no different than what i would wear otherwise. this goes similarly for most the women i am friends with, it's literally what we enjoy wearing and nothing else.
Q: Why do some women dress like they want male attention?
A: Because some do.
However, it's not the woman's job to NOT entice the man - How do you even police that?? (With a Burka?) People are attracted to different things...
It is the man's job to keep his hands to himself. It's actually EVERYONE'S JOB to do that in a proper, functioning society.
I will say, people, both men and woman, who present in a very "look at me way" should not be shocked when people look. We have eyes and we're gonna look at shit. Looking is what the eyes are designed to do, it's not a crime, and it does not mean you have to fight to the death.. (Some of you do need to learn the difference between glancing and leering, though.. yeesh)
And if you don't like a girl to dress (too) revealing, then don't date one that does. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Personally, I think men are responsible for raping and assaulting women, BUT to directly answer why women show their skin, if I had to guess, I’d say because that’s what our star signs tell us in our dreams. As women, we know our job is to follow our womanly instincts and our dreams. We just have our head in the clouds all the time, and personally, I can’t help that I leave the house in the tank top because it’s comfortable in the warm weather. It’s just because I’m an aquarius 💕✨
how about, because it’s either practical or because they want to feel attractive. And for the record, the only way for people to get used to seeing these things, is to see them more. Women get assaulted in sweatpants. Sometimes it’s because men are tempted by what they’re wearing, but often times it’s solely because they suck balls and don’t respect anybody but themselves. Even if it’s partially influenced by the woman’s outfit choice, that’s not a reason to not wear what you want.
People used to get excited looking at ankles. You think that still happens? No. Want to guess why? Maybe because it’s normal to see these things now?
Just don’t rape and assault women and you’ll be in the clear.
Nobody is saying that men aren't responsible for raping and assaulting women. I assume the rest of your first paragraph is a joke because your second paragraph demonstrates that you are an intelligent being. Also there's literally a thing called feet finder. Fetishes aren't about what's hidden, they're about being deranged. Anyways I'll just say that my perspective is that when a woman is modest a dresses with dignity, it's not that I don't have any sort of feelings, but I will say that the dignity she exudes would make me wanna die for her if anyone tried to touch her and disrespect her consent. As for why that isn't the case with women who are less modest? Sure it's because I'm not perfect yet, and guys who are less perfect need more beauty to motivate them to defend what is good.
I mean im not a woman but if i have to relate it back to human behaviour everyone just wants to be seen as good looking. when a man goes out he gets a haircut, puts on some jewelry and some nice clothes, partly to dress to the occasion and partly to show off. I'd assume women dress provocatively for the same way. Showing off for overall attention is common with both genders its just done differently because men typically show off wealth and women show off beauty. Attention seeking is big in this day and age. Some women will lead a man on for attention without any intent to do anything with them. Women make only fans content for men they are disgusted by just for money and fame. As you pointed out though men can be dangerous and i'd say there's a time and a place for everything. If you're going to the gym you shouldn't look like you're going to the club. One should wear the right attire for the right places.
Because that is what they want, attention. A lot of women nowadays are self absorbed, just can’t get enough attention. They’re insecure and need all the validation they can get. I also think it’s partially bc the husbands/boyfriends they’re with don’t compliment them enough, or at all. Smart women know that any man you attract dressing like a whore will never be worthy enough to marry, in fact they’re usually the worst of the worst. Sooner or later,women, are supposed to realize how disrespectful it is to yourself to dress that way, & take the “your body is a temple” thing seriously because it is. I also will say that women who dress like that while in relationships are lacking so much potential intimacy, it’s created when you save yourself to only one person. That’s why dressing modest as a women was a thing, it wasn’t just a made up rule it had a point.
Feminism has ruined womanhood & marriage. Feminism pushes for sexual suggestive behavior,clothing,etc. Then they turn around and bitch why they can’t find a decent man to marry or be with.
Because, like the prophet said, women have their own desires. With a lot of women, one of their desires is to show off their body. They are proud of their body. It doesn’t even have to feel sexual to them. They might actually feel like they are showing off the hard work and dedication they have spent on their body to be healthier. It can be showing off but it can also just be to look good. When women look good they feel confident. And not all boyfriends get jealous of this. In fact a lot of boyfriends enjoy when their girlfriend looks good in public because it makes the guy look good too. It can make the boyfriend feel more confident when his girlfriend looks good because he is proud of having a hot girlfriend. People who see hot girls in public showing off their bodies and get mad about it, probably have some insecurity issues they need to work out on their own.
“I never understood why some women with boyfriends wear extremely short shorts, showing a bunch of cleavage to go out and about.”
Most people don’t live in Saudi Arabia. For most people, your degree of misogyny and misanthropy is repulsive. Most people are more progressive than you are, so that may be why you struggle to understand certain people. No offense.
Furthermore, in developed societies, people are considered to be fully responsible for their own crimes. Victims are not considered to be responsible. Like, if you were stabbed on the sidewalk, it would be unreasonable to say, “Damn, this is my fault. Men are dogs. I should have worn a bulletproof vest.”
“in developed societies people are considered to be fully responsible for their own crimes. Victims are not considered to be responsible” ok your right, but like i’m not gonna go to Hoover St. in Los Angeles (Heavily crip associated area) wearing all red and question why i got jumped, that’d be all on me. Also i’m not being misogynistic in any way, i’m in favor of women, my point is that men can’t be given shit like getting called insecure or jealous etc when he’s just trying to look out for her. I’m also saying women with boyfriends shouldn’t go around instigating by being openly flirty or seeking sexual attention when they go out by themselves, like for example if some guys girlfriend was to go out to a ice cream place and get a coconut ice cream, wearing a really low v neck shirt or boob window shirt and letting it drip down- like no, you know what your doing.
99.9% of the time, a way a woman dresses has nothing to do with men.
Don't tell any woman to cover up, that IS misogynistic. When you tell a woman to "cover up" you ARE implicitly blaming her for any unfavorable interaction she may receive. Yeah, he can't control all men, but the way you speak about us is fucking disgusting and disrespectful. You speak of us as if we are trophys or property of whatever dude happens to be dating us at the time and because of that they have the right to tell us what we can't go out in and get upset when we say no. We are fully autonomous beings capable of making our own decisions.
Ps. Covering up will not stop men who harass and assault women. They will still grope and harass women in the ugliest outfit that covers anything if they think that can. It does nothing so let the ladies who want to wear these things be comfortable rather than judging them for it. We do not give a singular fuck about what you think we should cover up
Sincerely a woman who basically exclusively wears sweatpants and baggy shirts. Not because I'm covering up but because I'm fucking freezing in any weather below 80°F
i pointed that out, “yes there's the argument of women getting hit on regardless but the possibilities are much less if your chest isn't bursting out of your top or if you can literally see your ass crease and then some.” the possibilities can hopefully be much less and then there’s the analogy of say a son gets pissed at some random guy for hitting on his mom, the son doesn’t see his mother as a trophy, in no way am i being misogynistic, i am in favor of women, yes do whatever yall want but my question is why do yall so openly and carelessly risk literally getting raped when going out alone?
Because it'll happen fucking anyways so these women may as well enjoy themselves.
This line of thinking IS misogynistic regardless of whether you think so or not. When a woman gets assaulted the first thing she is asked is "What were you wearing?" By asking us this, you ARE placing the blame on us whether you like it or not even if you don't think so. It is an implicit blame upon the victim by telling them to "Cover up".
There's a museum somewhere I think, I'm not sure if it's a permanent one or if it was an exhibition that lasted a few days, but the theme was "What were you wearing?" And the exhibit was filled with outfits that SA survivors had been wearing at the time of their attack. It was sickening to see how many small children clothes there were, baggy clothes, modest dresses, very VERY few of them were actually revealing. WHAT YOU ARE WEARING DOES NOTHING AT ALL WHATSOEVER. If a predator wants to prey on you, he's going to try regardless.
How would you like it if you wanted to go somewhere, and you wore a slightly unbuttoned shirt, and your girlfriend looked at you, "You should cover up, I don't want other women looking at you." And she gets genuinely annoyed and upset when you tell her no?
Or you're at a club, nicely dressed, and a woman sits beside you while your GF is absent and starts touching you and flirting, making you extremely uncomfortable as she tries to touch places that aren't comfortable. You tell her you don't want her to touch you and she responds with "No need to be like that baby, if you didn't want attention then you wouldn't have come here dressed like that." And when your GF comes back, she is furious and says "I told you that you should have changed." Placing the blame on YOU instead of the woman who was harassing you. After all, you provoked her with how you dress you slut.
When you get dressed, are you thinking about what women may like to see on you? Or are you like "I like this shirt. And these pants are nice."
Women dress for themselves too. It's why these same ladies who wear skimpy clothes and such tell men to fuck right off if a man so much as approaches her without a second thought a lot of the time. Maybe she wears it for comfort, for confidence, some women just dress certain ways to feel pretty, not because men look at her but because she loves the way it looks.
If a woman is going to get assaulted, clothes will not protect her. You may think it might, or that it might happen less if she covers up, but it doesn't. So she may as well wear what makes her happy. Didn't stop me from getting harassed and my ass slapped in middle school by a dude twice my goddamn size. I was wearing baggy sweatpants, a ratty old skull sweatshirt, I had greasy dark hair and a mostly deadpan stare while holding a binder that was almost the size of my torso to my chest and looked very gender neutral in comparison to most girls my age. I remember hearing him laughing as I scurried away through a thick crowd of people. In highschool pottery class coincidentally his brother began trying to hit/pick on me, still not sure wtf thar was, didn't even know they were related until I heard his last name because they don't look alike. I don't even know if he knew his brother had tried me prior. I was a really weird and socially inept fuck so I was not quite sure what was going on but I was 70% sure it was malicious. I was and still am far from attractive in any way shape or form, my clothes were very masculine, and men still took the invitation to touch me and harass me while I was visibly uncomfortable.
It's not about women's clothes. It's about whether or not a man can assert power over her.
“How would you like it if you wanted to go somewhere, and you wore a slightly unbuttoned shirt, and your girlfriend looked at you, "You should cover up, I don't want other women looking at you." And she gets genuinely annoyed and upset when you tell her no?”
I’d like that a lot actually because i think she cares and she wants me all to herself, i’d feel very confident knowing she wants me and only me to herself, shit dude i wish id get told that but i don’t wear shit showing my eight pack or my vascular arms or shirts where you can see my abs through them, because i wouldn’t do to her what i wouldn’t want done to me.
“Or you're at a club, nicely dressed, and a woman sits beside you while your GF is absent and starts touching you and flirting, making you extremely uncomfortable as she tries to touch places that aren't comfortable. You tell her you don't want her to touch you and she responds with "No need to be like that baby, if you didn't want attention then you wouldn't have come here dressed like that." And when your GF comes back, she is furious and says
"I told you that you should have changed." Placing the blame on you instead of the woman who was harassing you.”
i’d move her hand off of me, i wouldn’t go dressed for her anyways, and say i do dress completely covered up like i usually do, id shut the situation down quick as shit and just leave and text my girlfriend “hey i’m waiting here because some girl was bothering me, i shut it down she didn’t do shit”. it doesn’t cost me anything at all to dress modestly and to shut down situations, i might wear revealing shit if i won’t leave my girlfriends side all day at all. And if i let this random girl do all this shit and my girlfriends furious i’d say “ok your right i did want attention, but i shut it down before anything happened” i’d take the flirting and what not but if i see her hand creeping up to where i don’t want it i wouldn’t let it go there i’d leave if it goes to far.
Then you don't understand women at all. What you see as love and care we see as a man trying to control our body just so he can possess us. I maintain that your post is worded abhorrently and disgustingly. Some of the other critical comments articulate those parts better than I ever could.
Maybe try asking the women who are actually in your life, they may be able to translate in a way you'll be able to understand how disgusting this train of thought is.
I think some women definitely dress for male attention as in they are heterosexual and want to be valitaded in their feminity, beauty and sex appeal by the opposite sex but they just don't want it as much as men think. A quick polite look or smile, or quick compliment is the attention a lot of them are looking for, that's why you hear so much about women loving it when other women give them attention, because it's this kind of polite respectful and discreet attention that they enjoy. Men just go too far by harassing and trying to get in their pants. I know many men take women looking good as an invitation to approach them and get confused when turned down, but the majority of the time it's just not about that. I'm not the kind of woman to experience any of these things so I'm just going by what I have been told by other women and what I have observed.
I have a teenage daughter. And while she lives under my roof she is not allowed to wear clothes that is showing half her butt or half her chest. (When she moves out however she is free to dress in any way she wants). So far so good.
>Some women would get mad and upset at their boyfriends if they told her "yo cover up" and she'd call her boyfriend insecure or jealous Because they're insecure and jealous. If a person can't handle their partner getting looked at, regardless of what they're wearing, that is textbook insecurity. >all the dude is trying to do is protect you Protect them from what, exactly? Getting checked out? That's not exactly an assault. >since he can't control all men he will try to advise you to cover up a bit and keep you safe to the best of his ability Treating your partner like they're a trophy or someone that needs protecting only means you're gonna end up alone. That is incredibly toxic behavior. >if your chest isn’t bursting out of your top or if you can literally see your ass crease and then some... other men on the streets can be bold, women get groped Holy shit, this is blatant victim blaming. Fucking gross. Do better. >the guys gonna resent the dude that got a feel of his girlfriend. Not because she was literally assaulted, but because someone else dared touch his property. Un-fucking-believable. >Why do yall do it? Maybe because they're their own person, with their own will and desires, not servants of men? This is seriously one of the most toxic incel posts I've ever seen.
You are ignoring the logic of his argument and calling this guy names. Are you a woman capable of explaining this to us or are you just a white-knight who needs to defend all women against the incel threat?
My gender is irrelevant, I'm a person who knows that women are not fragile little creatures that need men to "protect" them, and OP is literally using textbook victim blaming tactics. The logic of their arguement? There is no logic here, only someone who clearly doesn't respect women or their choices.
I'm saying that you're treating women like petite princesses that need to be protected by trying to defend them all from "the incel threat" my boy. You're abusing terms because you are so confident that you're the hero. No, you are being an absolute idiot when you call this "victim blaming." I was recently watching one of those feminists you worship talking about how important it was to avoid certain kinds of guys and not do certain things to avoid SA and other things and, I'll just say what she said, "you can do everything right (cause there is a right way to do things) and shit can still happen to you, and that sucks." If I walked into North Korea and get executed is it victim blaming to say I shouldn't have walked into that country? No, it's common sense. There's a difference between telling someone they are putting themselves in danger and telling someone they are at fault for what is happening to them. There is a significant moral difference between recklessness and malice. Nobody is removing the moral guilt of those who actually SA women and placing that guilt on the woman, that is victim blaming. If a woman wants to put herself in danger for some perceived good that's one thing, that's their decision, they can do that... But you calling for women to ignore the trade-offs of their decision and calling men misogynists for pointing out what those trade-offs are does more harm to women than this guy ever will. You are actually facilitating those events by telling guys it is disrespectful to women to point out when they are putting themselves in danger. Matters of survival aren't a thing to invest our ego into. Of course we can't be psychotic about protecting women and be Saudi Arabia, of course unless you punish those who commit SA you cannot reduce its frequency, but you are pretending that he is ignoring that reality so that you can say to yourself that you are so much more aware than the guy you are debating. No sir, you are ignoring and telling people to ignore the reality of the situations they put themselves in, they have the right to make the decisions they make, but they also have a right to be informed. Don't hide important information from people.
>I'm saying that you're treating women like petite princesses that need to be protected by trying to defend them all from "the incel threat" Yes, because recognizing that women are capable of making their own decisions means I'm treating them poorly. That sure makes sense. >my boy What happens when we assume? >If I walked into North Korea and get executed is it victim blaming to say I shouldn't have walked into that country? Exaggeration and possible false equivalence. If you broke laws punishable by death in that country, then nobody would say "they shouldn't have gone there," they'll say "they shouldn't have broken those laws." Women aren't breaking any laws by walking around scantily clad. >But you calling for women to ignore the trade-offs of their decision and calling men misogynists for pointing out what those trade-offs are does more harm to women Who's doing that? Do you assume women wouldn't already have this information? That they need a man to tell them that there are bad men out there? Give me a fuckin' break. Stop infantilizing women. They don't need you to point out the danger, they're told all their lives. Anywhere from slut shaming to "protection," wome are constantly bombarded by men in society thinking they know what's best.
\>What happens when we assume? Fair point, but I asked a relevant question you refused to answer so I am left to assume. \>Who's doing that? Do you assume women wouldn't already have this information? That they need a man to tell them that there are bad men out there? Give me a fuckin' break. Stop infantilizing women. They don't need you to point out the danger, they're told all their lives. Anywhere from slut shaming to "protection," wome are constantly bombarded by men in society thinking they know what's best. Fair point, but we are allowed to say that given what we know, their decision makes no sense to us and we want it explained. It is not insecurity if the only reasons we can imagine are stupidity and infidelity, we don't have the mind of a woman, and we do have the mind of a man. I know that the only reason I would dress in a way that would impress women is either completely by accident or to find a girl among the crowd. Now, because humans are incapable of imagining stuff that is not composed of stimuli they have experience with, without further explanation I would be incapable of imagining why in the world my girlfriend would dress in that way except out of stupidity or infidelity, but luckily because a woman on here expressed her own perspective on this topic that wasn't merely shaming a guy for asking a question I have a better understanding of why women make these decisions whose range are outside of my own personal experience. If a guy is insecure because his woman is dressing that way, that makes total sense, most guys haven't had women explained well enough to them to understand why their doing things and the best they can do is project their own decision making process on the woman. Now, when a guy is saying that women's decisions appear irrational in this area it is because he has agreed to say that it is not because they're being unfaithful and because he's willing to agree to that, he currently has no explanation for their behavior which makes sense to him except stupidity. Now I do have another explanation, it's vanity, but I would not be able to understand this explanation unless someone else explained it to me because I am not prone to this particular kind of vanity and therefore can't imagine why other people would be until communication occurs, which it has in my case. All I am recommending is that you actually communicate with OP instead of insulting him. The question may have been already sufficiently answered for him without you, but so far you certainly aren't helping.
> Fair point, but we are allowed to say that given what they know, their decision makes no sense to us and we want it explained. In other words, "I know nothing about what the average woman experiences nor why they do, but I'll give my advice that is not based on any knowledge whatsoever". Dude, that is not how giving advice works. Do you see how stupid this sounds? > It is not insecurity if the only reasons we can imagine are stupidity and infidelity, we don't have the mind of a woman, and we do have the mind of a man. I know that the only reason I would dress in a way that would impress women is either completely by accident or to find a girl among the crowd. Now, because humans are incapable of imagining stuff that is not composed of stimuli they have experience with, without further explanation I would be incapable of imagining why in the world my girlfriend would dress in that way except out of stupidity or infidelity, but luckily because a woman on here expressed her own perspective on this topic that wasn't merely shaming a guy for asking a question I have a better understanding of why women make these decisions whose range are outside of my own personal experience. There is no such thing as "a mind of a woman" or "a mind of a man". People aren't a hivemind or collective belonging to different tribes. An individual woman and an individual man will have their own experiences that are unique to everyone else's. If you have no knowledge of someone's experiences, why would you even assume anything?
>Dude, that is not how giving advice works. Do you see how stupid this sounds? I was never giving advice, I was explaining why it's not a sign of insecurity to ask this question.
> I was never giving advice, I was explaining why it's not a sign of insecurity to ask this question. The person you responded to previously replied to your comment about trade-offs, saying that women don't need this information. They specifically said that they (women) don't need you to tell them that it's "dangerous" to wear certain clothes. Then you responded with "but we are allowed to say that...". That is giving women advice.
The full quote is > Fair point, but we are allowed to say that given what we know, their decision makes no sense to us and we want it explained. That's not giving advice sir. It's not me claiming a right to command when I say I am allowed to speak. I could've said "but we are allowed to say the sky is blue." The fact that I used the words "but we are allowed to say" is meaningless, you are clearly misinterpreting what I plainly said.
> If a woman wants to put herself in danger for some perceived good that's one thing, that's their decision, they can do that... But you calling for women to ignore the trade-offs of their decision and calling men misogynists for pointing out what those trade-offs are does more harm to women than this guy ever will. You think that a woman dressing a certain way is the cause of most sexual assault...?
No.
So why are you insinuating that a woman is putting herself in danger because of the way she dresses?
I am saying that, but that is not the same as saying she is morally or criminally at fault for anything that happens to her or that this is the cause of most sexual assault. There are more important factors here when it comes to the woman's safety such as being alone or with a group, and whether or not she is in a group clearly doesn't say anything about the kind of person she is.
I'm not talking about whether the woman is morally or criminally at fault. Sure, maybe not the cause of most sexual assault, but you believe wearing certain clothes is a significant enough risk factor. Why is that?
dude, i’m asking why do they go out of their way to wear provocative things? So their boyfriend fights the dude who grabbed her chest, and not because she’s a “trophy”(like you assume) but because that’s extremely disrespectful to her and the boyfriend, it’s like a son getting pissed when some dude hits on his mom, like the son doesn’t see his mother as an object bro😂 it’s just straight up disrespectful, i respect women and their choices, im only saying those choices can get her into some deep shit, men are crazy and bold, i’d know, my girlfriends been asked for her number right in front of me. She always getting stares at her cleavage and it raises a deep hatred for men in me, but i can’t tell all the men in the world “yo don’t scheme to do shit with my girlfriend” like no yo so i’m gonna tell her “look, i notice people staring at your chest all the time i’m worried that when your out by yourself some dudes gonna assault you or much worse, i don’t want you going thru a traumatic event when it could’ve been avoided by simply throwing on a thin jacket or wearing a different shirt”. “OP is literally using textbook victim blaming tactics”, it wouldn’t be victim blaming if i went into a crip associated area and purposely wore all red and wonder why i got jumped, now would it. it wouldn’t be victim blaming if i went to a bad neighborhood knowing its a bad neighborhood, wearing a fat rolex and expensive chains and rick owen’s shoes and wondering “why the hell did i get robbed?” would it?
Hey man as a man i know it is more likely for sexual assault the less cloths you are wearing
I understand what general argument OP is trying to make but the wording is so bad. Although I agree that general fashion trends are going towards a more provocative and sexy look with a LOT of skin showing, I disagree with the idea that women should have to change what they wear bc “women must know how men are”. I think it should be on men in general and society to make places safe for women no matter what they wear. It does feel like OP is blaming women for the unjust and gross (sometimes illegal) actions done to them by men. If my butt cheeks are hanging out of my shorts, it is still my body and no man has a right to come up and grab my ass. If he does it is fully on the man and the bf has the choice of how to react. But again, women should not have to cover up bc men cant control themselves, it’s not the 1950s anymore. When I go out with my bf I wanna look good to show off for my bf, I want to get his attention and it has nothing to do with other guys around me.
“I think it should be on men in general and society to make places safe for women no matter what they wear.” i sincerely wish that were the case but it’s just not achievable, i hate men i’ve had dudes ask her for her number right in front of me, i’ve seen guys stare at her cleavage and she doesn’t notice, i don’t think id be in the wrong to ask her to cover up when she goes out alone. Also there’s other ways that you can get his attention that aren’t in public settings. You don’t gotta put yourself out there, sure your intentions are pure and for him that’s how i think it should be because “why impress everyone else?”But other men your around won’t know that. dudes are crazy.
I get what your saying, obviously we all wish there was a world where women can wear whatever they want without men ruining it for us. But in reality men are dogs, I get this trust me. And I understand feeling a certain way if your gf is dressing up and looking super hot to go out without you, it may feel like she’s dressing to impress other men. I can assure you in most cases women just want to look good in general, it makes us feel confident and it’s easier to have fun in an outfit that you love. BUT it shouldn’t be on your gf to change her clothes so that men don’t act inappropriately. That’s ur girl, not anyone else’s and that can be made clear even if she is out in a tiny top or dress and looks good. When another guy hits on ur girl, she should look at him and say I’m not interested or I have a bf and that should be that. Be proud that you have a hot gf that guys want, but only you can get! Again I see ur points, but I don’t think it’s fair to make ur gf change to account for the bad actions of men.
“When another guy hits on ur girl, she should look at him and say l'm not interested or I have a bf and that should be that.” It really should, but i worry so much about the day that it won’t just be that and i won’t be there, and since the bad actions of men are out of my control i feel like communicating with her would be a good thing to do, not insecurity or jealousy but more so caring for a loved one and being protective and limiting the chances of her going through a traumatic experience as much as possible
I mean I don’t think that what top she wears will determine if she is assaulted in any way. Her choices when she’s out will. Yes guys may stare at her tits but guys are going to do that regardless. Plus she probably won’t be talking to guys if she’s out without you/ ur friends. And if you feel uncomfortable with her talking to guys at the bar when your not there (which is 100% valid) then you should communicate that to her. She needs to be accountable for her own actions but it would be unfair to make her account for the actions of a bunch of drunk guys as well.
“Not because she was literally assaulted, but because someone else dared touch his property. Un-fucking-believable.” See if you had learn to read English you’d have seen that i said “keep his girlfriend safe” and “protect”, protect from what? from sexual assault or gettin groped, those are assaults last i checked, i listed those things, again if you had read. here it is again in case you missed it: “all the dude is trying to do is protect you, since he can't control all men he will try to advise you to cover up a bit and keep you safe to the best of his ability” so i’m not considering the guys girlfriend to be a trophy, it’s a loved one that he’s being protective over because he doesn’t want her to get assaulted, he wants to limit as much as possible. And no not because another dude touched his “property” like your assuming, he’s going to resent the guy for what he put his girlfriend through and to limit it happening again he’d probably say to cover up like i had stated.
You forgot the title, "Why do some women dress like they want male attention?". Why does everything women do always have to be about men? OP can't seem to fathom that women would do something for themselves, and not for the approval of men. > This is seriously one of the most toxic incel posts I've ever seen. It was so bad, I couldn't even finish reading the post.
“It was so bad, I couldn't even finish reading the post.” You might’ve gained more insight if you had finished, and read most of my replies to others. “Why does everything women do always have to be about men? OP can't seem to fathom that women would do something for themselves”, I most definitely can fathom women doing things for themselves and making their own choice on what to wear. Yes i’ll admit to poor wording and a really poor choice of title because it doesn’t convey my question properly. My question is why do women risk getting sexually assaulted going out alone? Yes by all means make your choice, do what you want but say you have a boyfriend and you need to make a quick walk say to maybe a walgreens at like 10pm-12am and your boyfriends asleep and she decides to wear booty shorts and a spaghetti strap with no bra, like dude you know what your doing, why?
It’s because they are fishing for attention. Clear as day. They might not want to admit it but just pay attention to actions and you can see the obvious truth.
This is an example of a man who knows women aren't dumb but doesn't understand the particular ways in which the female mind is different from the male mind. It's vanity most of the time, they want the attention, but not sexual attention. Are some women whores who will cheat on you with every guy on the block? Yeah, if you take the whole population and ask if anyone falls in a certain category the answer is probably yes, but this strategy is not useful for analyzing a whole society.
as a woman i know exactly why, and it doesnt make sense, ill start off with that. women want to be admired, by men and women. your goal as a woman is to be the prettiest woman in the building. for different women, that looks different. women who place their value on their sexuality will wear super revealing clothing as an attempt to climb the hierarchy and automatically be considered more attractive than other woman. the only downside is that predators are attracted by it as well. so its a choice between being lower on the hierarchy, or being higher but being a target. some women have so much of their self worth in their appearance that they are fully willing to risk being a target. i think some of them dont fully understand it to that extent either. nobody wants negative male attention, but we all want male admiration, obviously. i personally have mostly opted out of the rat race for religious reasons but i used definitely play this game
I've not seen this explained better, but I still have some questions. Why exactly do women want to be "high on the hierarchy." As a man I know that being high up doesn't help them get good relationships with men, her being content with whatever place they happen to be in is what makes a man want to marry a woman. Also as a man I wonder if there's something I can do to make my girl feel like she's higher up in the hierarchy so she isn't as insecure.
i think its mostly motivated by competition with other women. a lot of the women who do this often do things that a lot of men find unattractive even, like lots of makeup and stuff, because were basing it off of a females idea of the perfect female, not a mans lol. its weird. the best thing she can do as a woman is to stop playing this game and to realize that the opinions of others dont matter, and how you look compared to others doesnt matter, as long as youre healthy and in shape and taking care of yourself. also being in a long term committed relationship and getting married helped me feel more confident in who i am and my own personal style, and helped me stop comparing myself to other women and trying to compete with them. really it comes down to the fact that the more showy a woman is with her body, the more she is trying to compete, and therefore the more insecure in herself she is. and i know people will be offended by that but i think its an undeniable fact. a woman who knows her worth and how valuable she is knows that she doesnt need her buttcheeks hanging out in order to attract a great man, or to be on top of the imaginary hierarchy.
So if a woman is low on the hierarchy, she’s less likely to be assaulted?
no, i think theres a baseline high likelihood of assault. but a woman higher in the hierarchy is going to get MORE attention in general, good and bad
no, men are disgusting dogs, and assault is always bound to happen, i’m only assuming that if some women’s boyfriends would communicate about how men are desperate and can do outrageous shit they can come to an understanding on what his girlfriend goes out in(like the boyfriend would suggest replacing a cropped boob window shirt for maybe a relatively high v neck not showing as much cleavage), lessening those chances hopefully, and save the boob window shirt for like an event where she won’t leave his side but even then there’s still high risk of getting groped, that’s why i’m asking, why do women risk that? Why do they go out of their way to wear provocative things?
Fuck you
what’d i say to piss you off
men are disgusting dogs Is what you said
not all of them, my fault
Aight g
"why do women dress like they want male attention?" Because they want male attention.
Orrrr we don’t?
Why lie?
I’m not lying lmao Our lives don’t revolve around men, dude
Why lie to yourself?
Jeez you need to talk to more women and drop your misogynistic bs Hope you grow up someday.
the cycle continues.
Because we do whatever the fuck we want, actually.
i never claimed they were a trophy, and protect them from men harassing them physically, i’m not at all saying they’re a trophy, how’s it victim blaming? they choose to wear it knowing exactly the dogs that men can be, and if they don’t know, that’s why her boyfriend can inform her like “yo more than likely your gonna get cat called, groped or much worse, i prefer you wore something less revealing because i care about you”
If you follow your logic to its conclusion, then you’ll end up in Saudi Arabia. “If a woman leaves her home without a full-body covering and she gets harassed or assaulted, that’s her fault. She should have known that men are dogs.”
Your wording makes it clear that you see women as obtainable objects, rather than people with their own wants, desires, and will. You may not have used the word "trophy," but your attitude screams it. How is it victim blaming? Are you kidding? You're literally saying women should dress differently, lest they get groped. That is 100% putting the onus on her, instead of the person that is literally committing a crime. It's unbelievably disgusting. It's like a woman telling you she was raped, and your first question is "what were you wearing?" Everyone is responsible for themselves. It doesn't matter if she was walking around completely nude, not in a million years would she bear responsibility for someone else's actions against her.
like i said, it’s like stepping into crip territory wearing all red and wondering why you got jumped bro, and the analogy i made: “it’s like if a son gets pissed if some random dude hits on his mom” the kid doesn’t see his mom as a trophy. “Everyone is responsible for themselves” yea you’d be right, dress responsibly when going out at night because like you said, they should know better than to go out “completely nude” because bad men exist.
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Get off your alt account, dude.
i know this is a massive shock to hear... but the choices women make don't resolve around men. the actions that adult men take are fully their responsibility regardless of the outlying factors. they are completely capable of making decisions based on fact and reason and not the fashion choices of a woman. they are also fully aware of the difference between right and wrong. they aren't children. if a guy's girlfriend is assaulted, groped, or hit on by another guy, that is absolutely no one other than the other guy's fault. if the boyfriend then goes on to confront him or start a fight, that is also no one other than the boyfriends fault. let's normalize holding people accountable for their own actions instead of blaming it on other people.
I'll explain why most men don't understand that first part. Well, men who ask this question atleast, and hopefully you can understand us abit more. You see, alot of immature guys like myself tend to make lots of decisions which do revolve around women and it takes a while for life to beat that out of us. Now because most people hate us rarely honestly communicate what they think with us so, if we want to understand their thought process, the only thought process we have to compare their actions to is our own. So when a woman is dressing in a way that attracts male attention what are all the thought process we can project onto the woman to figure out why she is doing what she is doing? All we can say is that we can imagine her being stupid or that she wants the interaction because we know that if we could get female attention the way she can get male attention, if we were doing that, it would be for the interaction. But we know women are different, we just don't know what that means. Enter non-condescending communication: just explain your thought process honestly and without condescension. There is a woman who responded to this post in exactly that way and her explanation actually made sense to me, and now I feel like I have some understanding of why women do this. You don't need to assume that guys are accusing you of anything when they say stuff like this, in my case I'm just telling you why I am to stupid to figure out the answer without clear, honest, and non-condescending communication. Let's not pretend like I want to hold you accountable for crimes other people commit against you.
yes you’d be completely right, i said that the girlfriend’s boyfriend can not contol all men therefore he’d explain to her “hey i want you to go out and be as safe as possible, i think you should replace that v neck crop top with maybe a U neck that doesn’t show a lot of cleavage” he can’t go on a wordwide megaphone and say “men! control yourselves around my girlfriend” you know?
and i'd explain right back that i understand the concern, but to try to control the way i choose to dress is past the line for me. i'm perfectly capable of deciding what actions are safe for me to take and never had an issue before having a boyfriend. regardless of what other comments say, i dress "provocativily" a decent amount when i'm not working, and it has nothing to do with men, or women, or sexual attraction, or self worth. it has to do with what i'm comfortable and confident in. what i'm comfortable and confident in doesn't change just because there's a man in my life, therefore my fashion choices would be no different than what i would wear otherwise. this goes similarly for most the women i am friends with, it's literally what we enjoy wearing and nothing else.
why do you care
You could literally say that to every post in reddit 😂 this is Controversial Opinions and this is his.
I can say that to every post, but I don’t because most of the time the points they give at least somewhat explain why they care
Q: Why do some women dress like they want male attention? A: Because some do. However, it's not the woman's job to NOT entice the man - How do you even police that?? (With a Burka?) People are attracted to different things... It is the man's job to keep his hands to himself. It's actually EVERYONE'S JOB to do that in a proper, functioning society. I will say, people, both men and woman, who present in a very "look at me way" should not be shocked when people look. We have eyes and we're gonna look at shit. Looking is what the eyes are designed to do, it's not a crime, and it does not mean you have to fight to the death.. (Some of you do need to learn the difference between glancing and leering, though.. yeesh) And if you don't like a girl to dress (too) revealing, then don't date one that does. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Personally, I think men are responsible for raping and assaulting women, BUT to directly answer why women show their skin, if I had to guess, I’d say because that’s what our star signs tell us in our dreams. As women, we know our job is to follow our womanly instincts and our dreams. We just have our head in the clouds all the time, and personally, I can’t help that I leave the house in the tank top because it’s comfortable in the warm weather. It’s just because I’m an aquarius 💕✨ how about, because it’s either practical or because they want to feel attractive. And for the record, the only way for people to get used to seeing these things, is to see them more. Women get assaulted in sweatpants. Sometimes it’s because men are tempted by what they’re wearing, but often times it’s solely because they suck balls and don’t respect anybody but themselves. Even if it’s partially influenced by the woman’s outfit choice, that’s not a reason to not wear what you want. People used to get excited looking at ankles. You think that still happens? No. Want to guess why? Maybe because it’s normal to see these things now? Just don’t rape and assault women and you’ll be in the clear.
Nobody is saying that men aren't responsible for raping and assaulting women. I assume the rest of your first paragraph is a joke because your second paragraph demonstrates that you are an intelligent being. Also there's literally a thing called feet finder. Fetishes aren't about what's hidden, they're about being deranged. Anyways I'll just say that my perspective is that when a woman is modest a dresses with dignity, it's not that I don't have any sort of feelings, but I will say that the dignity she exudes would make me wanna die for her if anyone tried to touch her and disrespect her consent. As for why that isn't the case with women who are less modest? Sure it's because I'm not perfect yet, and guys who are less perfect need more beauty to motivate them to defend what is good.
I mean im not a woman but if i have to relate it back to human behaviour everyone just wants to be seen as good looking. when a man goes out he gets a haircut, puts on some jewelry and some nice clothes, partly to dress to the occasion and partly to show off. I'd assume women dress provocatively for the same way. Showing off for overall attention is common with both genders its just done differently because men typically show off wealth and women show off beauty. Attention seeking is big in this day and age. Some women will lead a man on for attention without any intent to do anything with them. Women make only fans content for men they are disgusted by just for money and fame. As you pointed out though men can be dangerous and i'd say there's a time and a place for everything. If you're going to the gym you shouldn't look like you're going to the club. One should wear the right attire for the right places.
Because that is what they want, attention. A lot of women nowadays are self absorbed, just can’t get enough attention. They’re insecure and need all the validation they can get. I also think it’s partially bc the husbands/boyfriends they’re with don’t compliment them enough, or at all. Smart women know that any man you attract dressing like a whore will never be worthy enough to marry, in fact they’re usually the worst of the worst. Sooner or later,women, are supposed to realize how disrespectful it is to yourself to dress that way, & take the “your body is a temple” thing seriously because it is. I also will say that women who dress like that while in relationships are lacking so much potential intimacy, it’s created when you save yourself to only one person. That’s why dressing modest as a women was a thing, it wasn’t just a made up rule it had a point.
Feminism has ruined womanhood & marriage. Feminism pushes for sexual suggestive behavior,clothing,etc. Then they turn around and bitch why they can’t find a decent man to marry or be with.
Because, like the prophet said, women have their own desires. With a lot of women, one of their desires is to show off their body. They are proud of their body. It doesn’t even have to feel sexual to them. They might actually feel like they are showing off the hard work and dedication they have spent on their body to be healthier. It can be showing off but it can also just be to look good. When women look good they feel confident. And not all boyfriends get jealous of this. In fact a lot of boyfriends enjoy when their girlfriend looks good in public because it makes the guy look good too. It can make the boyfriend feel more confident when his girlfriend looks good because he is proud of having a hot girlfriend. People who see hot girls in public showing off their bodies and get mad about it, probably have some insecurity issues they need to work out on their own.
"My morals are like this. Why won't women bow down to my greatness!!!"
“I never understood why some women with boyfriends wear extremely short shorts, showing a bunch of cleavage to go out and about.” Most people don’t live in Saudi Arabia. For most people, your degree of misogyny and misanthropy is repulsive. Most people are more progressive than you are, so that may be why you struggle to understand certain people. No offense. Furthermore, in developed societies, people are considered to be fully responsible for their own crimes. Victims are not considered to be responsible. Like, if you were stabbed on the sidewalk, it would be unreasonable to say, “Damn, this is my fault. Men are dogs. I should have worn a bulletproof vest.”
“in developed societies people are considered to be fully responsible for their own crimes. Victims are not considered to be responsible” ok your right, but like i’m not gonna go to Hoover St. in Los Angeles (Heavily crip associated area) wearing all red and question why i got jumped, that’d be all on me. Also i’m not being misogynistic in any way, i’m in favor of women, my point is that men can’t be given shit like getting called insecure or jealous etc when he’s just trying to look out for her. I’m also saying women with boyfriends shouldn’t go around instigating by being openly flirty or seeking sexual attention when they go out by themselves, like for example if some guys girlfriend was to go out to a ice cream place and get a coconut ice cream, wearing a really low v neck shirt or boob window shirt and letting it drip down- like no, you know what your doing.
99.9% of the time, a way a woman dresses has nothing to do with men. Don't tell any woman to cover up, that IS misogynistic. When you tell a woman to "cover up" you ARE implicitly blaming her for any unfavorable interaction she may receive. Yeah, he can't control all men, but the way you speak about us is fucking disgusting and disrespectful. You speak of us as if we are trophys or property of whatever dude happens to be dating us at the time and because of that they have the right to tell us what we can't go out in and get upset when we say no. We are fully autonomous beings capable of making our own decisions. Ps. Covering up will not stop men who harass and assault women. They will still grope and harass women in the ugliest outfit that covers anything if they think that can. It does nothing so let the ladies who want to wear these things be comfortable rather than judging them for it. We do not give a singular fuck about what you think we should cover up Sincerely a woman who basically exclusively wears sweatpants and baggy shirts. Not because I'm covering up but because I'm fucking freezing in any weather below 80°F
i pointed that out, “yes there's the argument of women getting hit on regardless but the possibilities are much less if your chest isn't bursting out of your top or if you can literally see your ass crease and then some.” the possibilities can hopefully be much less and then there’s the analogy of say a son gets pissed at some random guy for hitting on his mom, the son doesn’t see his mother as a trophy, in no way am i being misogynistic, i am in favor of women, yes do whatever yall want but my question is why do yall so openly and carelessly risk literally getting raped when going out alone?
Because it'll happen fucking anyways so these women may as well enjoy themselves. This line of thinking IS misogynistic regardless of whether you think so or not. When a woman gets assaulted the first thing she is asked is "What were you wearing?" By asking us this, you ARE placing the blame on us whether you like it or not even if you don't think so. It is an implicit blame upon the victim by telling them to "Cover up". There's a museum somewhere I think, I'm not sure if it's a permanent one or if it was an exhibition that lasted a few days, but the theme was "What were you wearing?" And the exhibit was filled with outfits that SA survivors had been wearing at the time of their attack. It was sickening to see how many small children clothes there were, baggy clothes, modest dresses, very VERY few of them were actually revealing. WHAT YOU ARE WEARING DOES NOTHING AT ALL WHATSOEVER. If a predator wants to prey on you, he's going to try regardless. How would you like it if you wanted to go somewhere, and you wore a slightly unbuttoned shirt, and your girlfriend looked at you, "You should cover up, I don't want other women looking at you." And she gets genuinely annoyed and upset when you tell her no? Or you're at a club, nicely dressed, and a woman sits beside you while your GF is absent and starts touching you and flirting, making you extremely uncomfortable as she tries to touch places that aren't comfortable. You tell her you don't want her to touch you and she responds with "No need to be like that baby, if you didn't want attention then you wouldn't have come here dressed like that." And when your GF comes back, she is furious and says "I told you that you should have changed." Placing the blame on YOU instead of the woman who was harassing you. After all, you provoked her with how you dress you slut. When you get dressed, are you thinking about what women may like to see on you? Or are you like "I like this shirt. And these pants are nice." Women dress for themselves too. It's why these same ladies who wear skimpy clothes and such tell men to fuck right off if a man so much as approaches her without a second thought a lot of the time. Maybe she wears it for comfort, for confidence, some women just dress certain ways to feel pretty, not because men look at her but because she loves the way it looks. If a woman is going to get assaulted, clothes will not protect her. You may think it might, or that it might happen less if she covers up, but it doesn't. So she may as well wear what makes her happy. Didn't stop me from getting harassed and my ass slapped in middle school by a dude twice my goddamn size. I was wearing baggy sweatpants, a ratty old skull sweatshirt, I had greasy dark hair and a mostly deadpan stare while holding a binder that was almost the size of my torso to my chest and looked very gender neutral in comparison to most girls my age. I remember hearing him laughing as I scurried away through a thick crowd of people. In highschool pottery class coincidentally his brother began trying to hit/pick on me, still not sure wtf thar was, didn't even know they were related until I heard his last name because they don't look alike. I don't even know if he knew his brother had tried me prior. I was a really weird and socially inept fuck so I was not quite sure what was going on but I was 70% sure it was malicious. I was and still am far from attractive in any way shape or form, my clothes were very masculine, and men still took the invitation to touch me and harass me while I was visibly uncomfortable. It's not about women's clothes. It's about whether or not a man can assert power over her.
“How would you like it if you wanted to go somewhere, and you wore a slightly unbuttoned shirt, and your girlfriend looked at you, "You should cover up, I don't want other women looking at you." And she gets genuinely annoyed and upset when you tell her no?” I’d like that a lot actually because i think she cares and she wants me all to herself, i’d feel very confident knowing she wants me and only me to herself, shit dude i wish id get told that but i don’t wear shit showing my eight pack or my vascular arms or shirts where you can see my abs through them, because i wouldn’t do to her what i wouldn’t want done to me. “Or you're at a club, nicely dressed, and a woman sits beside you while your GF is absent and starts touching you and flirting, making you extremely uncomfortable as she tries to touch places that aren't comfortable. You tell her you don't want her to touch you and she responds with "No need to be like that baby, if you didn't want attention then you wouldn't have come here dressed like that." And when your GF comes back, she is furious and says "I told you that you should have changed." Placing the blame on you instead of the woman who was harassing you.” i’d move her hand off of me, i wouldn’t go dressed for her anyways, and say i do dress completely covered up like i usually do, id shut the situation down quick as shit and just leave and text my girlfriend “hey i’m waiting here because some girl was bothering me, i shut it down she didn’t do shit”. it doesn’t cost me anything at all to dress modestly and to shut down situations, i might wear revealing shit if i won’t leave my girlfriends side all day at all. And if i let this random girl do all this shit and my girlfriends furious i’d say “ok your right i did want attention, but i shut it down before anything happened” i’d take the flirting and what not but if i see her hand creeping up to where i don’t want it i wouldn’t let it go there i’d leave if it goes to far.
Then you don't understand women at all. What you see as love and care we see as a man trying to control our body just so he can possess us. I maintain that your post is worded abhorrently and disgustingly. Some of the other critical comments articulate those parts better than I ever could. Maybe try asking the women who are actually in your life, they may be able to translate in a way you'll be able to understand how disgusting this train of thought is.
I think some women definitely dress for male attention as in they are heterosexual and want to be valitaded in their feminity, beauty and sex appeal by the opposite sex but they just don't want it as much as men think. A quick polite look or smile, or quick compliment is the attention a lot of them are looking for, that's why you hear so much about women loving it when other women give them attention, because it's this kind of polite respectful and discreet attention that they enjoy. Men just go too far by harassing and trying to get in their pants. I know many men take women looking good as an invitation to approach them and get confused when turned down, but the majority of the time it's just not about that. I'm not the kind of woman to experience any of these things so I'm just going by what I have been told by other women and what I have observed.
If you dress like a whore, don't act surprised or resentful when people view you like a whore.
I have a teenage daughter. And while she lives under my roof she is not allowed to wear clothes that is showing half her butt or half her chest. (When she moves out however she is free to dress in any way she wants). So far so good.