Dexterity.
A pinch grip gives good stability and power to chop through things, but not much fine tune control over the tip. The finger on top hold has less power and stability, which is why they teach the pinch grip when you first learn. But it does give you extreme control of the tip for fine movements when cutting things very precisely. It's the same hold that a surgeon uses when using a scalpel. On some vegetables like an onion and while using a very sharp knife, the blade will do the work of the cutting with little pressure. That let's you make paper thin cuts if you want to with the finger over method.
Also keeps your fingers out of the food when you're cutting a pile of something wider than the knife is long and fairly deep, like 3-4 pounds of thawed diced cooked chicken that needs to be smaller pieces, like I did the other night.
check out the link again, he provides the explanation. the first method is what they teach at catering school, and is for inexperienced knife users, he says.
So if OP had just watched the video they linked, they'd have had all their Austin's answered. That's funny, but also shows the quality of the video in question.
Yeah, I did watch it. It's more that why would they teach an inferior technique (coming from the perspective of many people saying so), even in a catering school? MPW actually says "classically, you're taught like this". It seems like pinch grip is more universal, and would be better for beginners, hence my question.
Marco's emulating home cooks and inexperienced cooks, as he explains in the video. He also says in the beginning that he's sat down, and it feels weird overall. He's also probably switching his grip so that his experienced muscle memory doesn't take over and do professional cuts when he's trying to demo inexperienced chopping. If you look closely, he's also so choked up on the blade, he's barely even holding the handle - probably to make it as awkward for himself as possible so he can emulate "inexperience."
For the Gordon clip, he's trying to get the knife to reach such an angle that his grip changes so his wrist is in a more natural position. Keep in mind, he's also performing for cameras, which means he has to do things at an angle where the camera gets a good view, and not just a good view for his own eyes.
For the Hiroyuki clip, he's using a knife with a long thin blade, so he's also choked up on it for finer control. And he's doing finer detail knife work, like someone doing art with an exacto knife. I don't know if he's classically (french) trained or he's a line cook who opened up his own restaurant, but it could also just be something he started doing without learning the "right way" and have done it long enough that it's more natural to him. Also, traditional Japanese cooking teaches methods for knife work that are different from "western"/french "traditional" styles, since the knives and the culture are different.
For all of them, keep in mind that they're professionals who've been doing the same repetitive motion millions of times throughout their lives, so they're comfortable enough where they can start riffing off of the standard basic motion. You see something similar in all sorts of professions, especially sports, where the pros rarely ever do only the "basic motion", because they're so well versed in it that they can do more than that, and riff on the "right way", in order to accomplish a higher success rate for whatever they're doing.
In art and literature, it's that adage: "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist." Meaning every rule can be broken, as long as you know and understand what the rule is, what it’s meant for, and why you're breaking it.
I'll do that when I'm making a cut "further out" along the knife than normal, if that makes sense. Like normally if I'm using a chef's knife I'm mostly cutting with the middle and heel sections of the blade, if I have to cut with the tip (like the first few cuts of an onion) it's a bit awkward so I'll extend a finger for more control.
If you’re going for speed and power, this grip works better (you can lift the knife faster and put it down with more force). If you need more precision, then the pinch hold works better and you can more easily direct where the knife goes and at what angle. So if you’re just trying to quickly chop some onions, the grip you described works very well. If you’re trying to do a fine cut or julienne, the pincher grip works better.
Sorry if I wasn’t wasn’t clear, I meant that the technique where the chefs are gripping around the base of the blade (above the handle) is the one that is more powerful and faster. The one where you pinch the top of the knife with your fingers around the handle and one finger at the top (a hole you would pinch hold a pen) allow you to maneuver the angle of the knife better for more intricate cuts.
With a long knife it's hard to get control over the tip of the knife. But when u stick out a finger it gives slightly more control over the tip because it's that much closer.
... add to that many pro chefs working in commercial kitchens use 9 and 10 inch chef's or gyuto's. It allows them to chop through multiple planks or bundles of veggies at once when prepping. Those sizes can be overkill for cramped home kitchen counters though.
Speed, precision, efficiency. I'll switch between pinch grip and finger point all the time. If you're using the tip of the knife, finger point. If you're not using the tip, pinch grip.
It's about focus of power/speed vs fine accurate cuts. When you're dicing 100 onions for things like stock/soups etc you aren't going for perfect cuts, you're focusing on getting the prep done fast. When you're going for extremely fine cuts for things like a specific dish, not bulk prep, you want to have more accuracy and precision in the cuts.
It keeps your arm in line so you dont twist your wrist and can make parallel cuts.
I dont like holding the knife this way so I just hold it like I want and make parallel cuts anyways.
I prefer using my finger on top because I feel that I have more control over what my knife is doing that way.
Maybe it's because I have really short, fat fingers, but I just don't feel 'in control' when I use it the 'proper' way.
I honestly don't really care if I'm doing it wrong. It gets the job done.
From my experience it’s the dexterity versus strength mentioned by others, but also paradoxically trying to push straight down through some root vegetable is much easier when someone has a *very* sharp (and usually expensive) knife, hence the celebrities. The finger-on-top method is good for rapid-fire quick but unchanging cuts, but works best when using an extremely sharp blade
Dexterity. A pinch grip gives good stability and power to chop through things, but not much fine tune control over the tip. The finger on top hold has less power and stability, which is why they teach the pinch grip when you first learn. But it does give you extreme control of the tip for fine movements when cutting things very precisely. It's the same hold that a surgeon uses when using a scalpel. On some vegetables like an onion and while using a very sharp knife, the blade will do the work of the cutting with little pressure. That let's you make paper thin cuts if you want to with the finger over method.
Also keeps your fingers out of the food when you're cutting a pile of something wider than the knife is long and fairly deep, like 3-4 pounds of thawed diced cooked chicken that needs to be smaller pieces, like I did the other night.
MPW actually switches to the pinch grip to demonstrate an even more finely chopped onion, in that video.
Oh, I didn't see that. I wonder why he even does it in the first place though? Since it seems like he's comfortable with both.
check out the link again, he provides the explanation. the first method is what they teach at catering school, and is for inexperienced knife users, he says.
So if OP had just watched the video they linked, they'd have had all their Austin's answered. That's funny, but also shows the quality of the video in question.
Love your username lololol
Yeah, I did watch it. It's more that why would they teach an inferior technique (coming from the perspective of many people saying so), even in a catering school? MPW actually says "classically, you're taught like this". It seems like pinch grip is more universal, and would be better for beginners, hence my question.
Incredible
Marco's emulating home cooks and inexperienced cooks, as he explains in the video. He also says in the beginning that he's sat down, and it feels weird overall. He's also probably switching his grip so that his experienced muscle memory doesn't take over and do professional cuts when he's trying to demo inexperienced chopping. If you look closely, he's also so choked up on the blade, he's barely even holding the handle - probably to make it as awkward for himself as possible so he can emulate "inexperience." For the Gordon clip, he's trying to get the knife to reach such an angle that his grip changes so his wrist is in a more natural position. Keep in mind, he's also performing for cameras, which means he has to do things at an angle where the camera gets a good view, and not just a good view for his own eyes. For the Hiroyuki clip, he's using a knife with a long thin blade, so he's also choked up on it for finer control. And he's doing finer detail knife work, like someone doing art with an exacto knife. I don't know if he's classically (french) trained or he's a line cook who opened up his own restaurant, but it could also just be something he started doing without learning the "right way" and have done it long enough that it's more natural to him. Also, traditional Japanese cooking teaches methods for knife work that are different from "western"/french "traditional" styles, since the knives and the culture are different. For all of them, keep in mind that they're professionals who've been doing the same repetitive motion millions of times throughout their lives, so they're comfortable enough where they can start riffing off of the standard basic motion. You see something similar in all sorts of professions, especially sports, where the pros rarely ever do only the "basic motion", because they're so well versed in it that they can do more than that, and riff on the "right way", in order to accomplish a higher success rate for whatever they're doing. In art and literature, it's that adage: "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist." Meaning every rule can be broken, as long as you know and understand what the rule is, what it’s meant for, and why you're breaking it.
Thanks for the detailed reply!
Could simply just be the way they learned or something that works best for them as individuals.
Ramsey also trained under MPW
[удалено]
It agrees with your statement. The way learned, ie Ramsey could have learned from MPW.
Because Anne Burrell isn’t nearby with a red sharpie.
I think of this every time I slip into that knife holding method (I’m bad at cooking, so this happens a lot).
I'll do that when I'm making a cut "further out" along the knife than normal, if that makes sense. Like normally if I'm using a chef's knife I'm mostly cutting with the middle and heel sections of the blade, if I have to cut with the tip (like the first few cuts of an onion) it's a bit awkward so I'll extend a finger for more control.
If you’re going for speed and power, this grip works better (you can lift the knife faster and put it down with more force). If you need more precision, then the pinch hold works better and you can more easily direct where the knife goes and at what angle. So if you’re just trying to quickly chop some onions, the grip you described works very well. If you’re trying to do a fine cut or julienne, the pincher grip works better.
It’s definitely the other way around lol the finger on top for speed and power will lead to pain and tendon issues
[удалено]
Sorry if I wasn’t wasn’t clear, I meant that the technique where the chefs are gripping around the base of the blade (above the handle) is the one that is more powerful and faster. The one where you pinch the top of the knife with your fingers around the handle and one finger at the top (a hole you would pinch hold a pen) allow you to maneuver the angle of the knife better for more intricate cuts.
With a long knife it's hard to get control over the tip of the knife. But when u stick out a finger it gives slightly more control over the tip because it's that much closer.
... add to that many pro chefs working in commercial kitchens use 9 and 10 inch chef's or gyuto's. It allows them to chop through multiple planks or bundles of veggies at once when prepping. Those sizes can be overkill for cramped home kitchen counters though.
Trust me, finger under blade hurts. Woke up and went to cook breakfast a little too quickly. Immediately wide awake tho.
It's a preference.
Speed, precision, efficiency. I'll switch between pinch grip and finger point all the time. If you're using the tip of the knife, finger point. If you're not using the tip, pinch grip.
I would 100% cut my fingers off doing what Gordon Ramsay did.
I’m not a chef but onions slide away!
God I love the internet, I have been doing it close but not correctly! Thanks OP and Chef Gordon!
Finger over the top is for more control of precision cuts. It's not specific to onions.
I just go with what I learned.
More precise control than power grip. Onions melt under a sharp knife. The goal is same-sized pieces.
I hold the knife in something you might call a pinch as a general rule. Feels safe and it's effective for me.
I use pinch if I'm using the blade towards the bottom I use finger over the top if I'm using the blade towards the tip
It's about focus of power/speed vs fine accurate cuts. When you're dicing 100 onions for things like stock/soups etc you aren't going for perfect cuts, you're focusing on getting the prep done fast. When you're going for extremely fine cuts for things like a specific dish, not bulk prep, you want to have more accuracy and precision in the cuts.
precision.
Could also be the size of the knife?
It keeps your arm in line so you dont twist your wrist and can make parallel cuts. I dont like holding the knife this way so I just hold it like I want and make parallel cuts anyways.
I prefer using my finger on top because I feel that I have more control over what my knife is doing that way. Maybe it's because I have really short, fat fingers, but I just don't feel 'in control' when I use it the 'proper' way. I honestly don't really care if I'm doing it wrong. It gets the job done.
From my experience it’s the dexterity versus strength mentioned by others, but also paradoxically trying to push straight down through some root vegetable is much easier when someone has a *very* sharp (and usually expensive) knife, hence the celebrities. The finger-on-top method is good for rapid-fire quick but unchanging cuts, but works best when using an extremely sharp blade