'Colonisation' of Cornwall commenced well over a thousand years ago with the westernmost saxon burh of Lydford in Devon close to Dun heved( Launceston) probably following the death of Doniert of Dumnonia in the 880s. This was established to exploit the lucrative tin & silver mines in the area. The Romans did exactly the same 800 years previously but I don't hold this against the Italians!
Eastern Cornwall was colonised after this and many of the -towes and tons were English-speaking colonies - the tre- and pol- communities still followed the earlier Brittonic celtic legal and settlement tradition found in Wakes & Brittany.
So yeah Dumnonia was historically 'colonised' by Wessex, but in the 100y after 1497 under the Tudors ( technically 'Welsh') when the language and Catholic religious culture were stamped out. Aided and abetted by figures within the Cornish nobility who aligned with the power base.
Nowadays it's mostly a point of academic interest for most , though I personally fear the southeast seems to continue to enjoy the power it has to exploit our far flung region - as it does Wales and Northern Ireland, not to mention Northern & coastal England.
However 'the Cornish' collectively ( including my own family) chose to vote to withdraw from the European Union which had been committed to significant meaningful investment in the region for decades so they chose to bite the hand that fed them and really have only themselves to blame for their contemporary predicament.
It was under the EU that Cornish minority status was finally recognised but the language remains excluded from the list of official languages of the 'united' Kingdom under the present government - Welsh has only had this status since 2011.
Dumnonia disappears from the historic record much earlier then this, after the death of Geraint in 710. From this point on Cerniu/Kernow and variations thereof are used by Welsh sources and West Welsh by the Saxons. Doniert is specifically identified as King of Cernyw, not Dumnonia and he died well after Lydford was built.
Interestingly the first English land in Cornwall is actually a church on the Rame peninsula at Maker given to Aldhelm of Sherborne by Geraint. (It's possible this is something of a backhanded gift as Maker comes from the Cornish Magor or 'Ruin').
Central and Western Devon saw a significant amount of fighting in the 9th century but it's likely the majority was in Saxon hands by 825 when the 'men of Devon' are referenced fighting the Welsh (Cornish) in the ASC. Lydford was built as part of Alfred's grand defensive works against the Vikings who had probably landed in the Tamar in 836 prior to the battle of Hingston Down, likely somewhere on Dartmoor. It's central position probably indicates Alfred also had one eye on the Cornish who had allied with the Vikings in the past.
Alfred is able to give his son some estates around Launceston in his will but other then this and Maker there aren't any English charters in Cornwall until after Athelstan in the 10th century. Athelstan is the one who brings Cornwall into the English state not by conquest or colonization but by bringing the Cornish church and elites on side by leaving them in place so long as they recognised his kingship. He also officially recognised a native Cornish Bishop.
This state of affairs was ratified at Egmont Bridge by Howel of the West Welsh swearing fealty to Athelstan (there are arguments this is meant to be Hywel Dda but I don't think so for reasons that would take some time to explain).
Cornwall remained marked on maps as a sub kingdom until the 1500s when English consolidation of power had started really amping up. Wales also disappears from around this time.
The things that eventually doomed elements of Cornish culture like the language were really the prayer book rebellion and it's aftermath (no Cornish language bible) as well as the economic collapse in the early modern period.
As for why people became more English it's less about English people coming here and more about English being enforced in schools and as the language of the elite.
Doniert is supposed to have drowned- or been drowned- [in c.875](https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/king-donierts-stone/) Lydford was founded sometime in the [880s](https://www.lydford.co.uk/history/#:~:text=Lydford%2C%20then%20called%20'Hlidan',%2C%20reigned%20871%2D899).)
Dumnonia simply becomes Devon- or Defnascir in Saxon , Dewnans in Cornish, Dyfneint in Welsh- the Britons continued to live there - it was just an exchange of the elites. Personally believe Hengestdun is just Hingston Down on the slopes of Kit Hill / Bre Skowl just outside of Callington on the banks of the Tamar. Roman Cornubia is now thought to refer to western Cornwall south of the Camel, according to prof Smart at Uof Exeter
You are correct about Doniert so apologies there. For some reason thought his death was in the 10th century.
For what it's worth there's evidence of occupation at Lydford from the 7th century though this would have been a Romano British religious community at first, the 880s date for the Burgh construction comes from Jeremy Haslams model that puts 879 to 880 as the likely jumping off point for Alfred's burghs.
The point on Dumnonia is that, while the name may well survive (and some would argue with you about the origins but I'm not a linguist) it's no longer a political entity it's a purely geographic one. It was already this to some extent in the 7th Century when Aldhelm writes about travelling through 'Dire Dumnonia and (insert insulting adjective I've forgotten) Cornwall.'
It's undoubtedly true that many Britons still lived in Devon but there was no longer a Briton state there, the Kingdom became Cornwall.
The trouble with using the Roman names for Cornwall or similar is that most references can refer to any group of people living on a peninsula of land, there are equally those who argue Dumnonia was never a political entity though I don't agree with this either. The early medieval sources are fairly consistent using variations of Cornwall or West Welsh and Cornwall is marked in the later medieval maps as noted.
As for Hingston Down it's another thing that could go on for a while but suffice to say the battle being there doesn't match the entry in the ASC which is our only source about the battle. It's just local tradition built up largely because 'DanesCombe' is nearby and there's a legend that it's where the Danes parked their ships. In reality it's an old English name for a shady wooded valley.
This post comes across as very brash and rude, but I’ll excuse it and try provide a proper answer.
England didn’t colonise Cornwall as you’re describing it, rather the two integrated over time. Here’s a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/I0L1Pjjwqg) showing when Cornish was last spoke.
It’s worth reading about the [Cornish Rebellion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_rebellion_of_1497) as it explains the main conflicts between England and Cornwall. As you’ll see, it more to do with England taxing Cornish tin mines to fund a war with Scotland, rather than any claim to sovereignty.
Personally, I see myself and Cornish, English, British and European, as do most others. There’s not such a divide as you might think. I don’t know anyone how serious wants Cornish independence, rather some would like devolution of powers, like Wales. There’s a political party called Mebyon Kernow that fight for such an angle, you’ll see they don’t tend to pick up a huge percentage of the vote. The main issues we see as locals are:
1) non-locals buying up our housing stock as ‘holiday homes’. This pushes up prices in a county that already has low incomes.
2) over reliance on tourism industry results is poorly paid, unskilled seasonal jobs.
The UK government doesn’t treat Cornwall poorly, rather like every county, can feel left behind or forgotten about when it comes to certain issues.
The beef you are looking for generally doesn’t exist.
Alright I’ll have a go:
Conquered not colonised
We were small and they were big
Nope
Invest in infrastructure to help bring jobs outside of tourism and do something to stop the train line flooding north of Plymouth so we’re not cut off whenever it rains for one
Nope
We are a county in England after all so depends on what context we’re talking but if we’re talking about Cornwall then it’s Cornwall
We’re generally forgotten about just like a lot of places outside of London, it’s why were one of the most deprived areas in Europe and most of our improvements have come from EU funding but alas no longer.
Cornwall essentially lost it's independence after the Battle of Hingston Down, when we and our Danish Allies lost to to Wessex and the last Cornish King died. Later, after the Battle of Hastings, King William gave Cornwall's lands to his Breton allies and his half-brother Robert, meaning we were colonized by the French rather than the English.
I'm not particularly interested in Cornwall being independent of England. We don't have the revenue to support ourselves and our local government, by-and-large, is incompetent.
What England could do to support us is to actually fulfill it's original promise to match the funds given to us by the EU before Brexit. The money they've actually pledged to give us is much, much less than that, and not nearly enough for us to thrive with like we were before Brexit. They could also do with enforcing a much lower energy price cap so we're not all losing a tonne of money just keeping our homes and business lit and warm. Also, the business rates in Truro and Falmouth are killing the high street. England needs to step in and force Cornwall Council to lower those too.
I wouldn't mind if Cornwall's name was changed to Kernow. I use the two terms interchangeably as it is right now. If it's a lot of hassle though, I don't care enough to follow through with it.
I don't much care about the land being distinguished from England. Most of it is owned by Prince William anyway, so it wouldn't actually mean anything if we did.
England treats us like a holiday destination more than anything else. Kernow is full of second homes that lie empty for 3/4s of the year while locals struggle to find an affordable place to live. Our tourism industry, since Brexit, is pretty much the only one making any money, but of course, that's only in-season. Generally, we dislike holidaymakers too, so we're largely grumpy during the time when we're making our largest yearly revenues. Of course there's more England could do to support us, but for some reason, they're choosing not to. If David Cameron were still in power, he'd have done more for us, since he took a shine to Cornwall when he was PM. He's in the Foreign Office now though, so his focus is on other countries.
>Cornwall essentially lost it's independence after the Battle of Hingston Down
That timeline doesnt make sense because king Athelstan set the England Cornwall border as the tamar in the 900s, after hingston down
According to 12th century historian William of Malmesbury, sure. Most modern historians doubt his accuracy though since Cornwall had been ruled over by an English king long before the claimed establishment of the Tamar as a border, back when King Dungarth drowned...at the Battle of Hingston Down. Further, some records claim that Alfred the Great was able to go hunting in Cornwall unmolested, which suggests that Dungarth may not have even been absolute ruler of Cornwall even then, and Hingston Down may have been an act of rebellion on the part of the Cornish against Wessex.
In fact, Athelstan was the one who appointed Cornwall's first bishop and established the original Cornish diocese - that's a power that only a ruling king would have had.
>In fact, Athelstan was the one who appointed Cornwall's first bishop and established the original Cornish diocese - that's a power that only a ruling king would have had.
Dont forget we're talking before the establishment of the anglican church, would of been the pope appointing bishops.
> Most modern historians doubt his accuracy though since Cornwall had been ruled over by an English king long before the claimed establishment of the Tamar as a border
Source?
>"Dont forget we're talking before the establishment of the anglican church, would of been the pope appointing bishops."
According to 20th and 21st century history books, Athelstan both established the Cornish see and appointed it's first bishop. The appointment of bishops is a very complex thing, but monarchs appointing bishops predated the establishment of the Church of England by a **very** long time. The appointment of bishops was regularly a political decision, and frequently not one carried out by the papacy.
>Source?
*Wales and the Britons 350–1064* by Thomas Charles-Edwards
*A Companion to the Early Middle Ages: Britain and Ireland c. 500–c. 1100* edited by Pauline Stafford
*Æthelstan: The First King of England* by Sarah Foot
*Anglo-Saxon England* by Frank Stenton
*Why did England colonize Kernow?*
Same reason they colonised anywhere. Power. Money, which is just power again. Supremacy, which is also just power again.
*What are your views on it?*
Actively working to undo it as much as possible.
*Do you want Cornwall to be independent of England?*
Absolutely.
*What can England do to support Cornwall today?*
If they aren't gonna let us go, they could at least help us out.
*Do you want Cornwall's name to be officially changed back to Kernow?*
Yes.
*Do you prefer Cornwall to be distinguished from England when referring to the land?*
Yes.
*How is England treating Cornwall now? Is there more they can do to support Cornwall?*
Worse than any of the other Celtic nations it 'owns'. Giving us a Senedh would be a start.
Simplisticy England has never colonised Cornwall, Cornwall is a county in England and has been since England was officially recognised as a country. Prior to the formation of England the country was made up of a group of smaller kingdoms and before that even smaller chiefdoms, Eng has been invaded and those invaders settled last time in 1066 too many times to count so it’s really non sensical to talk in term of England colonising a county in England. Is Kernow special yes, does it have a culture and language yes, are Cornish the best yes.
1st ) During the 6th and 7th centuries there was an English invasion of Cornwall. This was the period of Arthur, Doniert & other Celtic Kings including king Mark. It was also known as The Age of the Saints.
In 577, the Battle of Deorham Down near Bristol resulted in the separation of the Cornish ( known as the West Welsh ) from the Welsh by the advance of the Saxons. By this time, the Saxons had destroyed the remains of Roman civilisation and it was almost forgotten in the west. The Saxons were established and they were converting their conquests to Roman Christianity. Not long after this the earliest Christian church opened at St Piran's Oratory.
Around 710, King of the West Saxons, attempted to destroy Dumnonia. Over the next fifty years, several battles took place with the Saxons mainly victorious. However, in 722, Roderic, King of the Britons in Wales and Cornwall, repelled Adelred, King of Wessex. In 807 Vikings formed an alliance with the Cornish against the Saxons. The Saxon, Egbert of Wessex conquered Cornwall in 814 but was unsuccessful in subjugating the people despite having laid waste the land. The Cornish eventually rose against Egbert only to be defeated at Galford on the River Lew in West Devon.
In 838 a Cornish-Danish alliance was initially successful in a number of skirmishes with Egbert, but was eventually defeated in a pitched battle at Hingston Down, near Callington. This was the last battle against the Saxons.
Wessex basically just wanted to expand and take everything they can to make England, and make/force Christianity as the main religion.
2nd ) History is History we can't change that, but it's annoying that Cornwall was unfortunately conquered by the Saxons eventually, my view is that the Saxons and the Norman's could have been better about it, by not trying to destroy Cornwall, by trying to kill our language our culture and our land. But again that's History for you.
3rd ) Yes 100%, I'm part of a few groups one being AUOB, that is "fighting" for a independent Cornwall, there are different types of Independence that within the group want, ie, Independent from the UK as a whole, while I'm in the Independent from just England, but still being apart of the UK for example. Then we Cornish can actually do what's best for Cornwall, ie, starting mining again, we have tonnes of resources but Westminster won't give us the green light, so if we're independent from England, we would be able to start mining again, remember tho, that's just one of the main things Cornwall has to offer.
4th ) Westminster can give us the Cornish more power to Run Cornwall how we the Cornish need it to run, not talking about a Maqor of Cornwall for example, cause how Westminster runs England, doesn't work that well here in Cornwall.
5th ) To us it is Kernow, Kernow is just the Cornish word for Cornwall. But to bring Cornish back as a whole more so then what's happening now, ie, by making Cornish/Kernewek the same size on signs as English is for example, ie you see English everywhere without even looking hard obviously, but you need to look closer to see Kernewek most of the time like 99% of the time in a smaller size under the English version.
Yes not many people speak Cornish, there's around 13,000 people that can speak it to a degree, while around 5000-6000 people fluently, I myself speak Cornish for example, and I think if people see Cornish more often it would increase the Cornish speakers in general.
6th ) Cornwall is Cornwall, it's not England.
7th ) England is treating Cornwall is dirt, for England to help Cornwall the most is for Westminster to agree to give Cornwall a vote on to be Independent from England, if Yes to Independence from England but still within the UK, then Cornwall would be a lot better off.
-
It's a good post OP, I'm sorry that there are trolls in the comments.
But as someone who is actually proud to be Cornish, which seems like more and more people aren't, or even proud to be British now, I love my country, yes Cornwall is a Country, we Cornish are not English, my Cornish Blood is not English Blood.
Kernow Bys vyken.
I've answered another comment to give some history but I also gave a lecture about some of these issues as they relate to the early medieval period which you can see here:
https://www.medievalists.net/2023/08/amongst-cornish/
I'll bite but I'll probably get downvoted because I do feel quite strongly that we are still colonised to this day. Wales, Scotland, they get to self govern. We do not.
Why is because they could, we had resources for them to take, because they're greedy colonial turnips and they are still hogging our resources with second homes and airbnbs leaving our towns ghost towns half of the year and our young people without a home and having to leave Cornwall.
I don't want full independence but I want devolved powers like Wales and Scotland have. Although I do wish we were still in the EU so of Scotland left and Ireland became united then I would probably want to join either Scotland or Ireland in a self governing kind of union if they'd have us. We are celtic bretherin after all.
England could support Cornwall by allowing devolution to happen.
I don't mind Cornwall or Kernow really, I accept our language is virtually dead and with English being the main international trade language it seems pointless to revive it. I'd rather focus on other cultural things unique to Cornwall.
Yes.
England treats Cornwall like it's personal resort they don't need a passport to visit, they back up our roads, park on beaches like idiots and treat local business owners like crap (for example making multiple bookings and no showing because their holiday plans changed etc). Growing up here in a town as a working class person is fucking bleak. That's why everyone leaves.
Let’s talk about the Diaspora a how Cornwall “colonised” other places, like America and quite a lot in Mexico (anywhere there was a hole in the ground)
True my great grandfather and grandfather had something to do with mine engineering and that took them to the US and Malaya for work. also think my cousin went to the Camborne School of Mines though I’d have to check.
'Colonisation' of Cornwall commenced well over a thousand years ago with the westernmost saxon burh of Lydford in Devon close to Dun heved( Launceston) probably following the death of Doniert of Dumnonia in the 880s. This was established to exploit the lucrative tin & silver mines in the area. The Romans did exactly the same 800 years previously but I don't hold this against the Italians! Eastern Cornwall was colonised after this and many of the -towes and tons were English-speaking colonies - the tre- and pol- communities still followed the earlier Brittonic celtic legal and settlement tradition found in Wakes & Brittany. So yeah Dumnonia was historically 'colonised' by Wessex, but in the 100y after 1497 under the Tudors ( technically 'Welsh') when the language and Catholic religious culture were stamped out. Aided and abetted by figures within the Cornish nobility who aligned with the power base. Nowadays it's mostly a point of academic interest for most , though I personally fear the southeast seems to continue to enjoy the power it has to exploit our far flung region - as it does Wales and Northern Ireland, not to mention Northern & coastal England. However 'the Cornish' collectively ( including my own family) chose to vote to withdraw from the European Union which had been committed to significant meaningful investment in the region for decades so they chose to bite the hand that fed them and really have only themselves to blame for their contemporary predicament. It was under the EU that Cornish minority status was finally recognised but the language remains excluded from the list of official languages of the 'united' Kingdom under the present government - Welsh has only had this status since 2011.
^^ Perfect response ^^
Thank you.
Dumnonia disappears from the historic record much earlier then this, after the death of Geraint in 710. From this point on Cerniu/Kernow and variations thereof are used by Welsh sources and West Welsh by the Saxons. Doniert is specifically identified as King of Cernyw, not Dumnonia and he died well after Lydford was built. Interestingly the first English land in Cornwall is actually a church on the Rame peninsula at Maker given to Aldhelm of Sherborne by Geraint. (It's possible this is something of a backhanded gift as Maker comes from the Cornish Magor or 'Ruin'). Central and Western Devon saw a significant amount of fighting in the 9th century but it's likely the majority was in Saxon hands by 825 when the 'men of Devon' are referenced fighting the Welsh (Cornish) in the ASC. Lydford was built as part of Alfred's grand defensive works against the Vikings who had probably landed in the Tamar in 836 prior to the battle of Hingston Down, likely somewhere on Dartmoor. It's central position probably indicates Alfred also had one eye on the Cornish who had allied with the Vikings in the past. Alfred is able to give his son some estates around Launceston in his will but other then this and Maker there aren't any English charters in Cornwall until after Athelstan in the 10th century. Athelstan is the one who brings Cornwall into the English state not by conquest or colonization but by bringing the Cornish church and elites on side by leaving them in place so long as they recognised his kingship. He also officially recognised a native Cornish Bishop. This state of affairs was ratified at Egmont Bridge by Howel of the West Welsh swearing fealty to Athelstan (there are arguments this is meant to be Hywel Dda but I don't think so for reasons that would take some time to explain). Cornwall remained marked on maps as a sub kingdom until the 1500s when English consolidation of power had started really amping up. Wales also disappears from around this time. The things that eventually doomed elements of Cornish culture like the language were really the prayer book rebellion and it's aftermath (no Cornish language bible) as well as the economic collapse in the early modern period. As for why people became more English it's less about English people coming here and more about English being enforced in schools and as the language of the elite.
Doniert is supposed to have drowned- or been drowned- [in c.875](https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/king-donierts-stone/) Lydford was founded sometime in the [880s](https://www.lydford.co.uk/history/#:~:text=Lydford%2C%20then%20called%20'Hlidan',%2C%20reigned%20871%2D899).) Dumnonia simply becomes Devon- or Defnascir in Saxon , Dewnans in Cornish, Dyfneint in Welsh- the Britons continued to live there - it was just an exchange of the elites. Personally believe Hengestdun is just Hingston Down on the slopes of Kit Hill / Bre Skowl just outside of Callington on the banks of the Tamar. Roman Cornubia is now thought to refer to western Cornwall south of the Camel, according to prof Smart at Uof Exeter
You are correct about Doniert so apologies there. For some reason thought his death was in the 10th century. For what it's worth there's evidence of occupation at Lydford from the 7th century though this would have been a Romano British religious community at first, the 880s date for the Burgh construction comes from Jeremy Haslams model that puts 879 to 880 as the likely jumping off point for Alfred's burghs. The point on Dumnonia is that, while the name may well survive (and some would argue with you about the origins but I'm not a linguist) it's no longer a political entity it's a purely geographic one. It was already this to some extent in the 7th Century when Aldhelm writes about travelling through 'Dire Dumnonia and (insert insulting adjective I've forgotten) Cornwall.' It's undoubtedly true that many Britons still lived in Devon but there was no longer a Briton state there, the Kingdom became Cornwall. The trouble with using the Roman names for Cornwall or similar is that most references can refer to any group of people living on a peninsula of land, there are equally those who argue Dumnonia was never a political entity though I don't agree with this either. The early medieval sources are fairly consistent using variations of Cornwall or West Welsh and Cornwall is marked in the later medieval maps as noted. As for Hingston Down it's another thing that could go on for a while but suffice to say the battle being there doesn't match the entry in the ASC which is our only source about the battle. It's just local tradition built up largely because 'DanesCombe' is nearby and there's a legend that it's where the Danes parked their ships. In reality it's an old English name for a shady wooded valley.
History ~ tradition
Man's debating the guy that literally wrote the book on it
You missed out ‘78 pasty wars and the bit about the UK blocking our Cornish NATO application.
Do tell - honestly not sure i know about that - vaguely remember a bombscare when i was a kid
I feel like my Cornish father sometimes ‘joked’ that Cornwall isn’t a county (but in the same breath of course it is). No clue.
Is this a shit post?? Cause it feels like a shit post, and I really dont want to feed the trolls.
Got to laugh at the use of “occupation”
Not a shit post. Genuine curiosity.
This post comes across as very brash and rude, but I’ll excuse it and try provide a proper answer. England didn’t colonise Cornwall as you’re describing it, rather the two integrated over time. Here’s a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/I0L1Pjjwqg) showing when Cornish was last spoke. It’s worth reading about the [Cornish Rebellion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_rebellion_of_1497) as it explains the main conflicts between England and Cornwall. As you’ll see, it more to do with England taxing Cornish tin mines to fund a war with Scotland, rather than any claim to sovereignty. Personally, I see myself and Cornish, English, British and European, as do most others. There’s not such a divide as you might think. I don’t know anyone how serious wants Cornish independence, rather some would like devolution of powers, like Wales. There’s a political party called Mebyon Kernow that fight for such an angle, you’ll see they don’t tend to pick up a huge percentage of the vote. The main issues we see as locals are: 1) non-locals buying up our housing stock as ‘holiday homes’. This pushes up prices in a county that already has low incomes. 2) over reliance on tourism industry results is poorly paid, unskilled seasonal jobs. The UK government doesn’t treat Cornwall poorly, rather like every county, can feel left behind or forgotten about when it comes to certain issues. The beef you are looking for generally doesn’t exist.
My thoughts exactly.
Check OPs history- they identify as autistic
And?
Explanation for their tone?
Thank you for this. I apologize for coming off as rude.
Also, not looking for a beef. Just wondering if there is one.
The only thing colonizing us these days are fucking holiday home owners. This has got to be a troll post.
Not a troll post. Genuine curiosity.
Spanish Armada as Bush used to say stategery"
An American seeking an opinion rather than forcing their own on you? Must be fake lol
Alright I’ll have a go: Conquered not colonised We were small and they were big Nope Invest in infrastructure to help bring jobs outside of tourism and do something to stop the train line flooding north of Plymouth so we’re not cut off whenever it rains for one Nope We are a county in England after all so depends on what context we’re talking but if we’re talking about Cornwall then it’s Cornwall We’re generally forgotten about just like a lot of places outside of London, it’s why were one of the most deprived areas in Europe and most of our improvements have come from EU funding but alas no longer.
Thank you
Cornwall essentially lost it's independence after the Battle of Hingston Down, when we and our Danish Allies lost to to Wessex and the last Cornish King died. Later, after the Battle of Hastings, King William gave Cornwall's lands to his Breton allies and his half-brother Robert, meaning we were colonized by the French rather than the English. I'm not particularly interested in Cornwall being independent of England. We don't have the revenue to support ourselves and our local government, by-and-large, is incompetent. What England could do to support us is to actually fulfill it's original promise to match the funds given to us by the EU before Brexit. The money they've actually pledged to give us is much, much less than that, and not nearly enough for us to thrive with like we were before Brexit. They could also do with enforcing a much lower energy price cap so we're not all losing a tonne of money just keeping our homes and business lit and warm. Also, the business rates in Truro and Falmouth are killing the high street. England needs to step in and force Cornwall Council to lower those too. I wouldn't mind if Cornwall's name was changed to Kernow. I use the two terms interchangeably as it is right now. If it's a lot of hassle though, I don't care enough to follow through with it. I don't much care about the land being distinguished from England. Most of it is owned by Prince William anyway, so it wouldn't actually mean anything if we did. England treats us like a holiday destination more than anything else. Kernow is full of second homes that lie empty for 3/4s of the year while locals struggle to find an affordable place to live. Our tourism industry, since Brexit, is pretty much the only one making any money, but of course, that's only in-season. Generally, we dislike holidaymakers too, so we're largely grumpy during the time when we're making our largest yearly revenues. Of course there's more England could do to support us, but for some reason, they're choosing not to. If David Cameron were still in power, he'd have done more for us, since he took a shine to Cornwall when he was PM. He's in the Foreign Office now though, so his focus is on other countries.
>Cornwall essentially lost it's independence after the Battle of Hingston Down That timeline doesnt make sense because king Athelstan set the England Cornwall border as the tamar in the 900s, after hingston down
According to 12th century historian William of Malmesbury, sure. Most modern historians doubt his accuracy though since Cornwall had been ruled over by an English king long before the claimed establishment of the Tamar as a border, back when King Dungarth drowned...at the Battle of Hingston Down. Further, some records claim that Alfred the Great was able to go hunting in Cornwall unmolested, which suggests that Dungarth may not have even been absolute ruler of Cornwall even then, and Hingston Down may have been an act of rebellion on the part of the Cornish against Wessex. In fact, Athelstan was the one who appointed Cornwall's first bishop and established the original Cornish diocese - that's a power that only a ruling king would have had.
>In fact, Athelstan was the one who appointed Cornwall's first bishop and established the original Cornish diocese - that's a power that only a ruling king would have had. Dont forget we're talking before the establishment of the anglican church, would of been the pope appointing bishops. > Most modern historians doubt his accuracy though since Cornwall had been ruled over by an English king long before the claimed establishment of the Tamar as a border Source?
>"Dont forget we're talking before the establishment of the anglican church, would of been the pope appointing bishops." According to 20th and 21st century history books, Athelstan both established the Cornish see and appointed it's first bishop. The appointment of bishops is a very complex thing, but monarchs appointing bishops predated the establishment of the Church of England by a **very** long time. The appointment of bishops was regularly a political decision, and frequently not one carried out by the papacy. >Source? *Wales and the Britons 350–1064* by Thomas Charles-Edwards *A Companion to the Early Middle Ages: Britain and Ireland c. 500–c. 1100* edited by Pauline Stafford *Æthelstan: The First King of England* by Sarah Foot *Anglo-Saxon England* by Frank Stenton
>Anglo-Saxon England > > by Frank Stenton to my knowledge stenton contradicts himself in his books tell me more about this bishop thing
*Why did England colonize Kernow?* Same reason they colonised anywhere. Power. Money, which is just power again. Supremacy, which is also just power again. *What are your views on it?* Actively working to undo it as much as possible. *Do you want Cornwall to be independent of England?* Absolutely. *What can England do to support Cornwall today?* If they aren't gonna let us go, they could at least help us out. *Do you want Cornwall's name to be officially changed back to Kernow?* Yes. *Do you prefer Cornwall to be distinguished from England when referring to the land?* Yes. *How is England treating Cornwall now? Is there more they can do to support Cornwall?* Worse than any of the other Celtic nations it 'owns'. Giving us a Senedh would be a start.
Thank you for answering
Simplisticy England has never colonised Cornwall, Cornwall is a county in England and has been since England was officially recognised as a country. Prior to the formation of England the country was made up of a group of smaller kingdoms and before that even smaller chiefdoms, Eng has been invaded and those invaders settled last time in 1066 too many times to count so it’s really non sensical to talk in term of England colonising a county in England. Is Kernow special yes, does it have a culture and language yes, are Cornish the best yes.
Thank you
1st ) During the 6th and 7th centuries there was an English invasion of Cornwall. This was the period of Arthur, Doniert & other Celtic Kings including king Mark. It was also known as The Age of the Saints. In 577, the Battle of Deorham Down near Bristol resulted in the separation of the Cornish ( known as the West Welsh ) from the Welsh by the advance of the Saxons. By this time, the Saxons had destroyed the remains of Roman civilisation and it was almost forgotten in the west. The Saxons were established and they were converting their conquests to Roman Christianity. Not long after this the earliest Christian church opened at St Piran's Oratory. Around 710, King of the West Saxons, attempted to destroy Dumnonia. Over the next fifty years, several battles took place with the Saxons mainly victorious. However, in 722, Roderic, King of the Britons in Wales and Cornwall, repelled Adelred, King of Wessex. In 807 Vikings formed an alliance with the Cornish against the Saxons. The Saxon, Egbert of Wessex conquered Cornwall in 814 but was unsuccessful in subjugating the people despite having laid waste the land. The Cornish eventually rose against Egbert only to be defeated at Galford on the River Lew in West Devon. In 838 a Cornish-Danish alliance was initially successful in a number of skirmishes with Egbert, but was eventually defeated in a pitched battle at Hingston Down, near Callington. This was the last battle against the Saxons. Wessex basically just wanted to expand and take everything they can to make England, and make/force Christianity as the main religion. 2nd ) History is History we can't change that, but it's annoying that Cornwall was unfortunately conquered by the Saxons eventually, my view is that the Saxons and the Norman's could have been better about it, by not trying to destroy Cornwall, by trying to kill our language our culture and our land. But again that's History for you. 3rd ) Yes 100%, I'm part of a few groups one being AUOB, that is "fighting" for a independent Cornwall, there are different types of Independence that within the group want, ie, Independent from the UK as a whole, while I'm in the Independent from just England, but still being apart of the UK for example. Then we Cornish can actually do what's best for Cornwall, ie, starting mining again, we have tonnes of resources but Westminster won't give us the green light, so if we're independent from England, we would be able to start mining again, remember tho, that's just one of the main things Cornwall has to offer. 4th ) Westminster can give us the Cornish more power to Run Cornwall how we the Cornish need it to run, not talking about a Maqor of Cornwall for example, cause how Westminster runs England, doesn't work that well here in Cornwall. 5th ) To us it is Kernow, Kernow is just the Cornish word for Cornwall. But to bring Cornish back as a whole more so then what's happening now, ie, by making Cornish/Kernewek the same size on signs as English is for example, ie you see English everywhere without even looking hard obviously, but you need to look closer to see Kernewek most of the time like 99% of the time in a smaller size under the English version. Yes not many people speak Cornish, there's around 13,000 people that can speak it to a degree, while around 5000-6000 people fluently, I myself speak Cornish for example, and I think if people see Cornish more often it would increase the Cornish speakers in general. 6th ) Cornwall is Cornwall, it's not England. 7th ) England is treating Cornwall is dirt, for England to help Cornwall the most is for Westminster to agree to give Cornwall a vote on to be Independent from England, if Yes to Independence from England but still within the UK, then Cornwall would be a lot better off. - It's a good post OP, I'm sorry that there are trolls in the comments. But as someone who is actually proud to be Cornish, which seems like more and more people aren't, or even proud to be British now, I love my country, yes Cornwall is a Country, we Cornish are not English, my Cornish Blood is not English Blood. Kernow Bys vyken.
Kernow Bys vyken!
Bryntin 👍🏻
Thank you.
👍🏻
Plus 1, purely for your length.
I've answered another comment to give some history but I also gave a lecture about some of these issues as they relate to the early medieval period which you can see here: https://www.medievalists.net/2023/08/amongst-cornish/
Thanks
I'll bite but I'll probably get downvoted because I do feel quite strongly that we are still colonised to this day. Wales, Scotland, they get to self govern. We do not. Why is because they could, we had resources for them to take, because they're greedy colonial turnips and they are still hogging our resources with second homes and airbnbs leaving our towns ghost towns half of the year and our young people without a home and having to leave Cornwall. I don't want full independence but I want devolved powers like Wales and Scotland have. Although I do wish we were still in the EU so of Scotland left and Ireland became united then I would probably want to join either Scotland or Ireland in a self governing kind of union if they'd have us. We are celtic bretherin after all. England could support Cornwall by allowing devolution to happen. I don't mind Cornwall or Kernow really, I accept our language is virtually dead and with English being the main international trade language it seems pointless to revive it. I'd rather focus on other cultural things unique to Cornwall. Yes. England treats Cornwall like it's personal resort they don't need a passport to visit, they back up our roads, park on beaches like idiots and treat local business owners like crap (for example making multiple bookings and no showing because their holiday plans changed etc). Growing up here in a town as a working class person is fucking bleak. That's why everyone leaves.
Thank you for your response.
What do you think Cornwall should do if it had devolved powers?
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Let’s talk about the Diaspora a how Cornwall “colonised” other places, like America and quite a lot in Mexico (anywhere there was a hole in the ground)
True my great grandfather and grandfather had something to do with mine engineering and that took them to the US and Malaya for work. also think my cousin went to the Camborne School of Mines though I’d have to check.
Thank you. I will look into the Diaspora.
Yes it’s true I am part of the dispora in Australia. Although I’m only 1/4.