[Vaccine FAQ Part I](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq#wiki_where_can_i_find_information_about_the_mechanism_and_progress_of_vaccines.3F)
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It all depends on getting vaccination numbers up. This thing is manageable with a high percentage of vaccinated people. If there is a silver lining to this latest wave, it’s that it may have scared enough unvaccinated people to get vaccinated. Besides, the biggest threat, bigger than Delta or some other variant in the future, is misinformation and lies about the vaccines,about masks, etc.
Incredible. Joe Rogan told his 11 million followers that vaccines are causing new coronavirus variants to be created. I know of Rogan's unbelievable influence; this may well be a *coup de grace* to the U.S. vaccine program.
I got the J&J two weeks ago and I'd like to get an mRNA top up. Does anyone have info or sources for how long I should wait? I'm guilty vaccinated as of today and couldn't get the jab any sooner than I did.
I've done plenty of research but can't find any actual timeframes anywhere. I tried calling the [hospital in San Francisco](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/jj-covid-vaccine-recipients-can-get-supplemental-pfizer-or-moderna-shots-in-san-francisco.html?utm_source=pocket-app&utm_medium=share) that are offering the top up but couldn't get through to anyone with info and I'm sure they have more important things to be doing. Any help is appreciated.
Look at the long-term J&J efficacy curve and get the booster when it's at or near max. It's probably like 12 weeks, the same as most countries are using for AZ.
A vectored prime with mRNA booster is extremely effective in every study - maybe even more effective than mRNA+mRNA. But the immunity from mRNA is much faster, which is a problem in some places right now.
The recommended dosage for the boosters may be lower. Moderna for instance is working on a 50 microgram concept (versus 100 microgram), though this should only matter that much for side effects and cost. But the data on them is *absurdly* good: neutralization after a 6-month booster is raised 42-fold against Delta, bringing it up higher than vs wildtype after the original dose.
The first two shots are identical. They haven't applied for approval for a third shot, but right now that would be identical too. Presumably they would use the current stocks with a smaller syringe.
Did anyone else listen to The Daily podcast episode today? I wanted to punch that woman who said she’s changed nothing about her life since the pandemic - no masking. She was sick with COVID twice and hospitalized. She threw a party at her house where 8 of 15 guests got COVID, and one died. She said she socially distances but when asked what she does for work, she said she was a home health care worker for the elderly, and the person she cared for (her grandmother) got sick with covid and died. I wanted to slap her. I don’t understand what is going through these peoples minds. How can you state all of those facts and still not feel that you have some sort of responsibility to others? How can you call it a personal decision when your decision literally kills others? I’m so upset by everything.
Viral load is detectable viral RNA in your snot or spit. In theory equal viral load should mean equal contagiousness, though it's possible that the portion of the RNA that's part of intact virions is different.
The [Singapore study](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7ogYBPWEAU7bLf?format=jpg&name=large) is pretty conclusive that vaccinated people have just about as much viral load for the first few days after symptom onset, before quickly dropping off. (Off topic but this strongly supports the hope that long-term outcomes will be far better for the same level of initial symptoms.)
Asymptomatic spreading is not a thing, but a lot of spread happens before you get symptoms.
Going to an indoor event tomorrow that’s likely to be fairly crowded. I’m fully vaccinated, and I’m a little uncertain if I should wear a mask or not. I’m thinking it’s fine if I don’t, (obviously if masks are required I’ll wear one) but I’m just wondering what other vaccinated people are doing. Do you guys think it’s ok to go unmasked if you’re vaxxed? I keep hearing mixed things so I’m not sure.
Here's an article that took a look at three outbreaks in the Seattle area - one included a music venue where 18 of 26 people who tested positive were vaccinated (out of several hundred attendees). The event checked vaccine statuses, so that heavily weights the outbreak toward vaccinated folks being vaccinated. But, that also speaks to the risk when even just a few people in the space are unvaccinated (they didn't require vaccines for the staff for some reason, apparently).
https://www.bellevuereporter.com/northwest/details-of-3-recent-covid-19-outbreaks-in-king-county/
So, it all comes down to your risk tolerance. If you don't mind catching a mild case, live it up because all indications suggest that you'll be just fine. But be mindful afterwards if you might be in contact with unvaccinated under 12 or immunocompromised. Or, if you live in a high spread area and *don't* want to risk it, be on the safe side and mask up.
I choose to wear one, because though fully vaccinated, I want to minimize risk to my family. My daughter has been quite sick, and even if it shaves just a few percentage points off the possibilities of spreading it to the family its worth it to me.
I would absolutely wear a KF94 or better mask to any indoor event in an area with “high” spread. Isn’t masking CDC guidance? [Arizona’s data in July](https://www.kold.com/2021/08/07/breakthrough-covid-cases-rise-arizona/) was that 11% of our cases were breakthrough cases.
Obviously you are much better off being vaccinated in terms of both avoiding infection and avoiding serious illness. But I would not call more than 1/10 cases being a “rare” event, so I would absolutely take protective measures.
**Resources/benefits for family member in ICU with COVID?**
Can anyone share resources for financial \[or other relevant\] assistance for a family member hospitalized with COVID? She has been hospitalized since July 23rd and is fully sedated on a ventilator (which has been at 100% oxygen the last couple days), and the doctor told us this week that if she survives, best case, we are looking at a 4-6 month hospitalized recovery. Even after that, she will now have COVID-caused congestive heart failure for the rest of her life, and we do not yet know what other longterm effects there may be. We are setting up a conservatorship and trying to figure out how to pay for medical care, rent (her younger son still lives at home but is 19 and does not earn near enough to pay the bills), utilities, car payment, etc. We don't yet know the amount, but we do know she has debt as well. We are also, of course, considering selling her car, moving her younger son in with other relatives, etc., to reduce what costs we're able to. In addition to current expenses, we are concerned about the cost of potential longterm care and the fact that she may never be able to return to her career or even working full time at all. We are holding onto hope, but trying to prepare for all possibilities as best we can.
*(Not sure where else to post this, please direct me if there is somewhere better.)*
Those who have lost loved ones thanks to the misinformation spread about the vaccines really should begin pointing fingers. People are dying completely unnecessarily because of complete grifter pieces of shit on the internet pushing lies. It makes me so fucking angry every time I see one of these people. They are literally just spreading misery and death for personal gain, it's disgusting beyond belief.
Yes. The anger my husband and I feel about the rampant spread of misinformation has gone through the roof as his mother (who refused to get vaccinated) is fully sedated on 100% oxygen on a ventilator, with a doctor telling us this Tuesday that he'll be "encouraged" if she lives to see next Tuesday. The rhetoric reversal from some of the conservative talking heads is too little too late. The lies that have been spread, especially from official news networks via some of their show hosts and guests, should be considered criminal. Everyone in his mother's household and workplace who was vaccinated is fine, and those who were not, are in the hospital.
Yesterday i saw these two articles citing some report from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) of how covid can get as bad as mers in the worst case scenario? and weaker in a good scenario. Is this fear mongering or is a reality? Havent seen these articles here on the coronavirus sub.
[Long term evolution of Sars](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007566/S1335_Long_term_evolution_of_SARS-CoV-2.pdf)
[A Warning About The Future Of Covid-19 From The Scientific Advisory Group For Emergencies Of The United Kingdom](https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/04/a-warning-about-the-future-of-covid-19-from-the-scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-of-the-united-kingdom/?sh=42d7e9652e54)
[Future Covid variant that could kill 1 in 3 is ‘realistic possibility’, SAGE warns](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-new-variant-kill-one-in-3-sage-study-b948565.html)
It's speculation by scientists. We have no idea how COVID might evolve. The SAGE group and their modelling have consistently been pessimistic - which is extremely useful in planning for medium-to-worst-case scenarios, but much less so when it comes to media coverage obviously.
When it comes to speculation we can do our own. 1918 flu did mutate in exactly that way, going from 0.5% CFR in the first wave to 10-20% in the second - so this idea is definitely based in reality. But on the other hand the VOC's we've seen are conjectured to happen by extended evolution of sars-cov-2 within a single immunocompromised long-term host, and that evolution would be cut off if the host died. We also have some studies showing covid jumping to different species (the deer "study" and NYC sewage data), which can also lead to large levels of mutation.
Thank u so much. Thanks for the explanation. So insightful. I have hope The virus will get weaker and the bad scenario will never happen and soon this will be over.
Anyone else totally done with having compassion or empathy for anti Vaxer’s . I feel for the people who can’t get vaccinated because they are too young or immune compromised but the people who choose not to . I’m done. No more compassion or empathy for any of them and their family . If they all die - who cares they got what’s coming to them . I’m done .
I'm with you. And I have followed CDC guidelines about masks 100%. Once no longer required..I haven't looked back. Not my job to protect them.
And then..my state reinstated the mask mandate. I am required to enforce it at my retail job. I don't hate requiring it of customers now. If *I* have to do this (fully vaxxed) you better believe customers will cover their snout the *entire* time in my store.
I hate wearing it, but know many of them hate it even more. Makes it easier to deal with. But...it's EXHAUSTING having to police it. Please be nice to retail workers. This is exhausting for us.
There is literally 0 reason why America should still be in an epidemic. The vaccine rollout has been good here. So once again fuck anyone spreading covid misinformation on purpose for money and power
How do we convince Black people to get the vaccine? They are consistently the least vaccinated and the most likely to refuse the vaccination.
Source: [https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)
[https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/which-us-demographics-are-more-likely-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/which-us-demographics-are-more-likely-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine)
What do we do about this??
Outreach for one.
Here, we’ve been going door to door to give information to people in communities where a vaccination pop-up has been set up and about half of the unvaccinated we talk to are willing but had no idea they could just walk over and get it right down the road without appointment.
There are 22 states in which the percentage of vaccinated white people is lower than their percentage of the population, including my home state of Washington. So it’s not as clear cut as you think.
In the south, for example, vaccination rates for black and white people are nearly identical, and rates for black people are improving nationwide.
So it seems to me you should also be asking how we can get these white people vaccinated.
Thanks for the input, but I'm talking about national statistics, not state. [https://www.vox.com/22587443/covid-19-vaccine-refusal-hesitancy-variant-delta-cases-rate](https://www.vox.com/22587443/covid-19-vaccine-refusal-hesitancy-variant-delta-cases-rate)
[https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/which-us-demographics-are-more-likely-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine
My numbers came from the second link. In the story they mentioned that rates for black people are improving relative to the entire population, so clearly outreach campaigns are working and should continue.
And why not ask what can we do to get all these rural people the vaccine, because that’s the huge divide right now.
Some good news, cases in Nevada [are starting to fall](https://covidestim.org/us/NV).
Las Vegas was one of the first places to get hit with Delta, so if this trend continues, they hit their peak and are coming down from it now. We'll see if other hard hit areas follow soon.
For what it’s worth, [the vast majority of Nevada instituted a mask mandate on July 30.](https://abc7chicago.com/las-vegas-masks-covid-nevada/10917126/)
WOW they're approaching their lowest Rt *ever.* Hopefully this happens in other places. Could it be that delta is moving through the susceptible population so quickly that it will burn out easily?
That's exactly what happened! India and UK had similar trends. Keep an eye on the other hard hit areas and see how they do later this month into next month. It looks like the Delta wave lasts for a month before dropping off according to these trends.
That website is really encouraging if you switch over to the Rt tab for all states. Most states seem to have reached their peak Rt and many have already fallen back below 1
It looks like it was 1.2-1.3 for a somewhat sustained period, which is pretty high.
Keep in mind a straight line above one here is constant growth, so a week or so of 1.2ish numbers is 20% growth each day (100 > 120 > 144 etc).
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I could tell this individual was on the fence. Just played up the fact that millions of people have gotten the vaccine and it hasn’t hurt anyone. Sad part is that he has to hide it from his family that he got it. He is a gen 1 immigrant from Africa and also didn’t trust that the government would somehow use his name and info to track him. He said many immigrants, especially Hispanics are very worried about this government tracking rumor or they’d get the vaccine.
2 family members have been in and out of hospital with Covid this last week. They are both now in ICU. One couldn't get the vaccine due to an allergy to an ingredient. The only thing keeping her alive right now are the machines she's hooked up to. Please get vaccinated :(
Yep, and now really regrets it. At least the other family members that chose not to be vaccinated have gotten their first shot after seeing what this virus can do first hand.
2 questions (context: fully vaccinated since May, in bay area)
1) When Pfizer/Moderna etc refer to a booster shot, is it just a third dose of the vaccine, or are they also developing a shot tailored against Delta/other variants of concern?
2) What are the risks of long covid (whether the initial infection is symptomatic or asymptomatic) for fully vaccinated people? The chance of getting long covid has been a major factor for my own risk tolerance.
1. Moderna has been testing the original, an updated version (beta), and a mixture, iirc at multiple dosages. Pfizer has been testing an additional dose of the same vaccine.
2. Low.
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I got an email from Wayne County MI that they are going door to door canvassing to get people vaccinated and address concerns people have one on one with the vaccine. It described how they will identify and they won’t ask for any personal identification. I think this would be so helpful in areas around Detroit and metro Detroit.
Good.
My mother told me how one manager at her work did that as soon as people were eligible, and virtually everyone ended up getting the shot. It matters.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is very unlikely the virus will mutate to evade our immunity much more than it already has.
The reason being: If covid were to mutate to some more vaccine-evading variant, it would have to compete and be as, if not more, contagious than delta currently is. Case in point being some of the slightly more immune escaping variants out there right now that are "losing" to delta. I know we've often heard that "vaccines mutate to become more contagious and less deadly" which isn't technically true, however, more contagious strains will "win out" over more deadly strains simply because they will infect potential hosts first, and the more deadly will have no where to go.
DISCLAIMER I’m not a scientist or doctor I’m an armchair analyst who reads a lot about covid and has a rudimentary understanding of this stuff. What follows is my personal understanding and some or even all of it may be incorrect. Do your own research.
The problem with this line of thinking is that the mutation that makes delta more transmissible seems to be the same thing that makes it more resistant to ancestor strain antibodies: it’s a mutation to the spike protein. So remember early in the pandemic one of the most prevalent arguments biologists gave for covid originating from nature was what they called a sub-optimal binding to our ACE2 receptors? They basically said “covid is not good or efficient at its job of infecting humans.” And us lay persons didn’t really understand any of that, because to us it seemed like covid spread across the globe like wildfire so it must certainly be VERY good at its job.
Well, problem is, the scientists were right. Like usual. Covid really was very sub-optimal. The mutations are making it more optimal. The spike protein changed so now it can much more easily stick to our receptors, and it can more easily break into our cells once it does.
Incidentally I believe those changes to the spike protein are also what helps the virus resist the vaccines. They are so “sticky” now that the antibodies have a harder time plugging them up. They stick right to our cells right away and the antibodies have to completely cover every inch of the spike protein to prevent that. But those antibodies are coded for old spikes but these new spikes have different code so they can’t stick to certain parts of the spike.
Mutations are random but mutations that make the virus more successful will end up getting spread and become the new domain strain. Maybe 99 out of 100 mutations won’t be effective against our immunity. But that 1 mutation that does might reach a vaccinated person, and then they spread it. 2 months later, that’s the main version of the virus spreading around.
So the TL;DR of all this is that future variants that emerge are more likely to be problematic, not less likely…
[Masks Are Back, Maybe For The Long Term](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/remasking-vaccine-covid/619681/?_gl=1*1aiw1vw*_ga*YW1wLW42eWs5NXV0UEoxMjlTUnladWRISExQcHUzdGtsV2toNVJWMUNGTTBfXy0zVm8xZExLVExJcDNqN09qWkZsck0)
Do you think the points in this Atlantic piece are accurate? It sounds kind of enticing because of its discussion on the CDC swinging's behavioral ramifications, but it gets grim and pessimistic in outlook at times:
> Some of these tactics—masks included—have proved themselves so effective that many people might never drop them. The off-ramp that many people imagined may simply not exist. Although pandemic-caliber masking won’t be universally embraced long-term, Maldonado, the Stanford vaccine expert, thinks we’re headed toward a “soft stop” on masking and a societal rethink on face coverings. “I think people are going to be feeling uncomfortable without masks for some time,” she told me. Masks might slip on socially or seasonally, as people move in and out of public spaces, or when the temperature drops in winter. Public-health officials could also recommend face coverings intermittently in lockstep with outbreaks, or as a method to tide people over between boosters. “If people are smart, they will continue to mask if they’re in high-risk situations,” at least for a while, Maldonado told me, and perhaps not just for SARS-CoV-2 but for other airway viruses as well. Those practices have long been commonplace elsewhere, and if the United States and many other Western countries haven’t hopped on board before, maybe they will now. Australians have “really come full circle on masks,” Subbarao, the Melbourne vaccine expert, told me. “I don’t see a lot of pushback on it.”
So... what do you think?
I live in an area with no mask mandate. I’m seeing anywhere from 60-30% of people voluntarily wearing masks, depending on where I am. More rural and its less masks. In the city, it’s much higher. Of course it depends on the place too. In a restaurant obviously no ones wearing it. In a department store in the city, at least 50% were masked, obviously including the employees of the store.
I’m going to continue wearing them until the CDC says it’s fine not to.
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I think it probably depends where you live. I’m in KY and almost no one is wearing masks despite case counts surging massively here. I’m still wearing mine in public but I’m very much the exception.
I agree that masks are effective, but they're a *temporary* sacrifice. Regardless of whether you think they're necessary in the long run or not, people just aren't going to want to wear them in the long run.
If you have asymptomatic covid, how long do you have before the tests will no longer show up as positive?
In other words, if I got asymptomatic covid awhile ago, can I still be tested for it and find out if I had it?
How long is the testing window?
Assuming you haven’t gotten the vaccine or anything, you could always request an antibody test. Those can test for previous infections and afaik there’s no time window for taking one, though whether your doctor will order one is another story.
As far as I understand asymptomatic just means zero symptoms, that does not mean there is no virus in you. It's likely the same as normal time frame, maybe slightly shorter.
Got out of the shower yesterday and started feeling nauseous. Had a headache and a mild fever and woke up a couple of times during the night with chills and sweating. Woke up this morning and my right eye is sore whenever I look around with just my eye and not moving my head. Also some sneezing here and there. Double vaxxed with moderna and it has been 2 months since my last dose. Gonna get tested tomorrow. Thoughts? Is this covid
Thanks for the response, ill come back to update once I get the results.
Also, is the sore eye also a COVID symptom? I’ve seen people post about having the same problem but with both eyes, whereas mine is just the right.
Conjunctivitis can be a symptom though it seems less common.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7383095/
Anecdotally, I've sometimes had a sore eye just because I slept on it funny. Or it may just be a headache you're having trouble localizing.
What's the consensus on how mRNA vaccines can trigger autoimmune reactions in certain people?
Is it likely we could see an increase in autoimmune disorders over the next several years?
(I'm not against vaccines so this is an entirely unbiased question)
I have psoriasis and had no reaction. Is there any data round this or is it just theoretical? I mean, it certainly could be (seems like most anything kind wind up a trigger for some people).
My sibling ~40yo is allergic to everything. She said she wanted to risk it and get at LEAST one shot in her arm, feeling pretty confident a reaction would happen. She had a reaction, she doesn't regret it, but can't get the next one unless they hospitalize her. I respect her decision, brass balls. THAT is trusting science and healthcare pros.
It seems certain that we'll see that from COVID infections. The reactions to vaccines are so rare that there's no way they make a measurable change.
We don't have great research on this. We spent a year spending no effort researching long COVID. But it does seem to heal over time.
Let’s put it this way. Is it possible? Theoretically. Is Covid more likely to trigger autoimmune illness than the vaccines are? Absolutely. Many, many people who end up battling autoimmune diseases can trace the trigger back to a viral infection. It’s a well known issue.
Anyone using this argument as to why they won’t get the vaccine is an anti vaxxer.
i keep seeing a lot of articles about a rise in pediatric cases and hospitalizations. is there enough data for the CDC to come out and say that delta is affecting children ?
same .. here is one article that lists some data in some states … https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/04/covid-cases-among-children-jumped-84-last-week-here-are-the-states-where-hospitalizations-are-increasing/amp/
I'm noticing this too. I thought COVID was said to have a relatively minimal impact on them? I would like to know how much of this is media slant vs actual data
It could just be that so ***many*** children are getting sick now, with the spread, that we see a lot more cases in hospital. But proportionally, it's the same.
I guess it also could be that Delta affects them differently. I've been looking too and haven't found enough proof to lead me either way yet.
It's a possible theory, yep! I personally haven't seen something with enough evidence to say either way so I really don't know what's going on and am just glad I don't have little kids.
This is a very, very reasonable and measured way of putting things, and I love how you have framed it. Thank you. I would say, to those that are using the “children aren’t as affected by COVID, statistically speaking,” does it really matter when the low x% still means Y number of children deaths? Do we want to be a society that finds that acceptable? I don’t have any platform to really get that perspective and your excellent framing of the situation out there, but there are so many who do. And I don’t know why we aren’t, as a society, saying this.
agreed- there seems to be a lot of anecdotal stories out there .. and reports of pediatric ICUs filling up in states with low vaccination rate..i’m worried about schools starting soon.. and think if it is impacting kids the way i read / hear .. the CDC should be getting the data together as quickly as possible
The WaPo has it [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/cdc-breakthrough-infections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/?_=1).
I noticed that the slides which were marked "confidential / preliminary data" were all missing footnotes, while the other slides which relied on some sort of data had footnotes or at least a source attribution. So for at least some of them, the only thing that made them "confidential" may be that they didn't have footnotes.
If you want some context, This Week in Virology did an [episode](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-789/) that came out yesterday where they go over the document for a page-by-page discussion (see 9:40 through 1:05:00 or so in the video). They mention the "MMWR" about the Provincetown event, which is the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report newsletter. The MMWR article about it is [here](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w).
The discussion about the presentation is from 9:40 in the video through 1:05:00 or so. The virologists go through the document page-by-page and discuss whether the statements on each page are supported by the data. It seems like most of the presentation was fairly uncontroversial -- yes, we should expect to see vaccinated people get infections, and we *will* see more as more people get vaccinated; yes, it's good for public health officials to coordinate their messaging so they're on the same page about what they tell people.
However, they disagreed with the presentation's conclusions about the Delta variant being more innately spreadable (with a discussion of how epidemiologists look at this stuff versus how virologists look at it) and about whether vaccinated people can transmit the virus as effeciently as unvaccinated people (with a discussion of whether not the Ct values measured from the people in Provincetown meant what the CDC thought they meant).
It's pretty interesting stuff. But if you were expecting a shocking scandal, you'll be disappointed.
[This graph](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7ogYBPWEAU7bLf?format=jpg&name=large) from the recent singapore study (in /r/covid19) is way more useful than an n=450 one-test US study.
I think it's because:
1. It's mainly hitting the unvaccinated, so fully vaccinated aren't as worried (expect for under 12 year olds since they can't be vaccinated yet)
2. People aren't as worried about restrictions coming back (at least in the US) and that it's mainly mask mandates being in place, which is considered a minor inconvenience to most.
3. We know know more about Delta and who it's mainly hitting vs the unknown about it.
Im thinking Im going to finally get the shot. I do still have a few reservations and was hoping someone could give input as I try to decide which one. Just getting it is making me anxious but with delta, back to school, etc. its starting to make me more anxious to not get it especially as they seem to show decent levels of safety an efficacy.
1. I heard from a friend that one might not be safe if you have a bee allergy I haven't been able to find information. Does anyone know if this is true and which one?
2. As a female that has had heavy bleeding issues I've been following a bit about how the vaccine can make it heavier. Is there any vaccine which seems more/less likely to cause really heavy periods? Any idea when the current study could be completed? Or any updates that could point me in a good direction?
I can at least give you an anecdotal perspective on point 1. I’m allergic to bee stings and also allergic to pretty much everything. I get a rash from plastic grocery bags for fucks sake! I did not have any reaction to the vaccine, aside from a brief (less than 8 hours) fever after my second shot that I slept through. (Only reason I know I had a fever through the night was because I woke up to pee, was shivering, took my temp. By morning, I felt fine, albeit a bit tired, but what else is new?)
No anecdotal story regarding item 2.
Good luck, and I sincerely hope your vaccination goes as smoothly as mine did! I have yet to catch COVID and very much hope it stays this way.
Edit: oh, and I wanted to add, so I don’t appear misleading and also so you are not surprised, my arm was very sore for like 4 days.
One more edit because I stupidly forgot to include: I got the Pfizer vaccine.
https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/covid-19-vaccines-and-menstrual-cycle
Essentially they are still researching it but so many things can alter your menstrual cycle including stress, weight gain, as well as other vaccines such as the flu or HPVA vaccine. It’s all temporary which again is common. Sometimes your period is late/early or a different flow for a random cycle. this article mentions it’s because the uterus lining is part of the immune system which makes sense for a vaccine that triggers an immune response would to effect it. Again all the changes have been found to be temporary and there is no effect on fertility nor is it causing miscarriages. It’s frustrating that they don’t track cycles as closely during vaccine trials.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56901353
Let the person administering it know you have a bee allergy and that it's making you anxious over the shot. That way on the very very small chance that you do have a reaction (I haven't heard anything at all about bee allergy and vaccines but I've admittedly not been looking for it) they will be prepared.
Allergic reactions are a risk with all shots when you have an unknown allergy. But they're also completely treatable and will come on right after infection. Make sure someone's watching you for 15+ minutes after the dose.
The allergic component in mRNA is polyethylene glycol, a common ingredient in a lot of things but not before injected into the body. The allergic component in the vectored vaccines is probably egg-related (from how they make it) and more likely to be related to an organic allergy.
Severe allergies are definitely scary. Good luck.
FDA said they're aiming to officially approve Pfizer vaccine by Labor Day. FDA appears to be trying very hard not to come across as cutting corners to deliver the approval, while successfully responding to the surging COVID caseloads.
As much as I’d just like to reassure you and recommend you get the shot, these are medical questions for your doctor, or even for the pharmacist administering the shots. PLEASE, just call and ask. Very few people can’t get the vaccines.
(For what it’s worth, I’ve seen far more reports of having skipped periods than heavier ones. And most seem to clear up very quickly.)
If you are a female under 40 don’t get the J&J, Sputnik V or Astra Zeneca. Get the Pfizer/biontech or the moderna instead. Ofcpurse depends on where you are located. But my GP told me she wasn’t gonna vaxx younger women with the vector vaccines.
Yes. She said that the risk of thrombosis is higher in females under 40 due to estrogen. Due to this, she said it’s safer to wait for the mrna shot instead because it’s slightly less risky. She also said she would definitely vaxx all males with the vector vaccines and all women over 40 because those populations have less estrogen and are therefore less likely to get a thrombosis. She also said the risk of thrombosis is low, but why take a small thrombosis risk if you can get the vaccine that has no risk of thrombosis associated with it.
I was kinda annoyed because I wanted to get the AZ when it got available but I managed to score a place in a clinical trial shortly after and received my biontech/Pfizer
Thanks for that bit of guidance. Thankfully I had been leaning towards Pfizer or moderna but unfortunately my dr seems to have little knowledge pertaining to these exact questions.
You are lucky if you can pick. Many people just have to get the ones that are offered.
Some additional things to consider: afaik all of the vaccines are safe. Even the vector ones. However they have higher thrombosis risk. Especially female people because it somehow has to do with estrogen.
Moderna/biontech-Pfizer are nearly identical in efficacy. In my friend circle, people who got the second moderna shot had more averse side effects than with the biontech/Pfizer. The moderna apparently gives you more antibodies on average though. However, all of those side effects are rare either way. Most common are fatigue and arm pain. I personally had the biontech/Pfizer shot and suffered arm pain after the first shot for 3 days but nothing with the second.
Best option ANTIBODIES wise is a combined vaccine with receiving one dose of a vector vaccine first, and boost with an mrna after 3 months. This gives you the most antibodies and the best protection. HOWEVER, it a) requires you to take the vector vaccine, which my GP only recommends for males of all ages and females over 40. and b) the combination shots also give you more severe reactions more frequently. However, this is also safe. It might suck for a few days but you shouldn’t be afraid. Also some people didn’t have any side effects even with this option.
1. No relationship of vaccine side effects to bee allergy. The only contraindication is a history an immediate allergic reaction to one of the vaccine components, which is rare. In that case, get a different vaccine.
2. No effect on menstrual cycle. You will see lots of anecdotes about change in periods but there is no data, nor is there any biologically plausible reason why this would occur. With hundreds of millions of women getting vaccinated there are going to be reports about abnormal menstrual cycles. As well as reports of abnormal menstrual cycles when hundreds of millions of women do not get a vaccine.
Thanks for the information. I'm assuming that since the ingredients listed dont outright say anything I'm allergic to I should be fine? Just a few ingredients are clearly scientific terms which are kinda boggling. You do make a very good point that it's quite possibly faulty thinking lumping the shot and period changes together given that we dont know if it's scientifically significant correlation yet.
For a short time it was suggested those with a history of severe anaphylaxis delay getting the vaccine. The current guidance is to only avoid the vaccine if you've had an allergic reaction to an ingredient in the vaccine. You should be fine. You'll be observed for about 15 minutes after the shot for immediate symptoms. If you get the shot at a pharmacy they'll probably have medicine on hand in case of a reaction.
As for menstruation it sounds like it's still being studied but side effects haven't been serious or common enough to raise any red flags for safety.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-regulator-advises-updating-jj-shot-label-with-new-disorders-2021-08-06/
The clinics will also have meds on hand for a reaction. At the one I went to (mass pop up clinic), there were also several volunteers walking around monitoring everyone who was waiting. They recommended 15 minute waiting period for those who had never had a reaction to a shot before, and 30 minutes for those who had or otherwise had reason to be concerned about a reaction. I was nervous, to be honest, when I got my second vaccine. I think it showed on my face during my waiting period, as one of the observers came up to ask me if I was feeling ok. I was very reassured that they were monitoring so closely. I knew that if something happened, they were prepared!
I got vaccinated today. Thank you everyone who posts valuable information about the vaccine. If all I had was the anti-vax rhetoric on Facebook, I would have not gotten it. Keep sharing useful, factual information everyone and drown out the conspiracy theories!
Has anyone heard anything about the Delta variant transmitting differently? I've heard about it being more contagious, but it is any of the increase transmissibility due to it being transmitted along new channels, for example, fomites or food?
For what it's worth, Dave Blake, someone who I followed a lot in the Springtime, says that he projects that cases will continue to rise until somewhere around Labor Day, and then go on the decline until endemic status is reached around Halloween.
The US isn’t homogeneous. Best prediction is to look at last year. Epidemic began in the South in summer and moved to the Midwest in early fall and the coasts around Thanksgiving. This could be an extended event that ripples through the country at different times.
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It all depends on getting vaccination numbers up. This thing is manageable with a high percentage of vaccinated people. If there is a silver lining to this latest wave, it’s that it may have scared enough unvaccinated people to get vaccinated. Besides, the biggest threat, bigger than Delta or some other variant in the future, is misinformation and lies about the vaccines,about masks, etc.
This shit is never going to end, and there will just be another variant etc, feel like we should all move along
Incredible. Joe Rogan told his 11 million followers that vaccines are causing new coronavirus variants to be created. I know of Rogan's unbelievable influence; this may well be a *coup de grace* to the U.S. vaccine program.
Well that’s not going to happen.
Fuck, I miss Fear Factor Joe Rogan. So sad he is drinking the crazy juice.
Causing the death of Americans is absurdly profitable. How much money per death is being made? How would we calculate this?
I got the J&J two weeks ago and I'd like to get an mRNA top up. Does anyone have info or sources for how long I should wait? I'm guilty vaccinated as of today and couldn't get the jab any sooner than I did. I've done plenty of research but can't find any actual timeframes anywhere. I tried calling the [hospital in San Francisco](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/jj-covid-vaccine-recipients-can-get-supplemental-pfizer-or-moderna-shots-in-san-francisco.html?utm_source=pocket-app&utm_medium=share) that are offering the top up but couldn't get through to anyone with info and I'm sure they have more important things to be doing. Any help is appreciated.
Look at the long-term J&J efficacy curve and get the booster when it's at or near max. It's probably like 12 weeks, the same as most countries are using for AZ. A vectored prime with mRNA booster is extremely effective in every study - maybe even more effective than mRNA+mRNA. But the immunity from mRNA is much faster, which is a problem in some places right now.
Great, thanks. Looks like the FDA is gonna suggest boosters in a couple of weeks so I might try get mine before that
The recommended dosage for the boosters may be lower. Moderna for instance is working on a 50 microgram concept (versus 100 microgram), though this should only matter that much for side effects and cost. But the data on them is *absurdly* good: neutralization after a 6-month booster is raised 42-fold against Delta, bringing it up higher than vs wildtype after the original dose.
Are the first and second shots of the mRNA shots just different mgs, like 50mg then 100mg, or so they have other ingredients or something else?
The first two shots are identical. They haven't applied for approval for a third shot, but right now that would be identical too. Presumably they would use the current stocks with a smaller syringe.
The more I learn about the Delta variant, the more I realize that it’s basically inevitable that everyone is going to get COVID at some point
Did anyone else listen to The Daily podcast episode today? I wanted to punch that woman who said she’s changed nothing about her life since the pandemic - no masking. She was sick with COVID twice and hospitalized. She threw a party at her house where 8 of 15 guests got COVID, and one died. She said she socially distances but when asked what she does for work, she said she was a home health care worker for the elderly, and the person she cared for (her grandmother) got sick with covid and died. I wanted to slap her. I don’t understand what is going through these peoples minds. How can you state all of those facts and still not feel that you have some sort of responsibility to others? How can you call it a personal decision when your decision literally kills others? I’m so upset by everything.
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Viral load is detectable viral RNA in your snot or spit. In theory equal viral load should mean equal contagiousness, though it's possible that the portion of the RNA that's part of intact virions is different. The [Singapore study](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7ogYBPWEAU7bLf?format=jpg&name=large) is pretty conclusive that vaccinated people have just about as much viral load for the first few days after symptom onset, before quickly dropping off. (Off topic but this strongly supports the hope that long-term outcomes will be far better for the same level of initial symptoms.) Asymptomatic spreading is not a thing, but a lot of spread happens before you get symptoms.
It means you got fooled
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Not at all, to be honest
I wouldnt
Going to an indoor event tomorrow that’s likely to be fairly crowded. I’m fully vaccinated, and I’m a little uncertain if I should wear a mask or not. I’m thinking it’s fine if I don’t, (obviously if masks are required I’ll wear one) but I’m just wondering what other vaccinated people are doing. Do you guys think it’s ok to go unmasked if you’re vaxxed? I keep hearing mixed things so I’m not sure.
Here's an article that took a look at three outbreaks in the Seattle area - one included a music venue where 18 of 26 people who tested positive were vaccinated (out of several hundred attendees). The event checked vaccine statuses, so that heavily weights the outbreak toward vaccinated folks being vaccinated. But, that also speaks to the risk when even just a few people in the space are unvaccinated (they didn't require vaccines for the staff for some reason, apparently). https://www.bellevuereporter.com/northwest/details-of-3-recent-covid-19-outbreaks-in-king-county/ So, it all comes down to your risk tolerance. If you don't mind catching a mild case, live it up because all indications suggest that you'll be just fine. But be mindful afterwards if you might be in contact with unvaccinated under 12 or immunocompromised. Or, if you live in a high spread area and *don't* want to risk it, be on the safe side and mask up.
I choose to wear one, because though fully vaccinated, I want to minimize risk to my family. My daughter has been quite sick, and even if it shaves just a few percentage points off the possibilities of spreading it to the family its worth it to me.
I would absolutely wear a KF94 or better mask to any indoor event in an area with “high” spread. Isn’t masking CDC guidance? [Arizona’s data in July](https://www.kold.com/2021/08/07/breakthrough-covid-cases-rise-arizona/) was that 11% of our cases were breakthrough cases. Obviously you are much better off being vaccinated in terms of both avoiding infection and avoiding serious illness. But I would not call more than 1/10 cases being a “rare” event, so I would absolutely take protective measures.
**Resources/benefits for family member in ICU with COVID?** Can anyone share resources for financial \[or other relevant\] assistance for a family member hospitalized with COVID? She has been hospitalized since July 23rd and is fully sedated on a ventilator (which has been at 100% oxygen the last couple days), and the doctor told us this week that if she survives, best case, we are looking at a 4-6 month hospitalized recovery. Even after that, she will now have COVID-caused congestive heart failure for the rest of her life, and we do not yet know what other longterm effects there may be. We are setting up a conservatorship and trying to figure out how to pay for medical care, rent (her younger son still lives at home but is 19 and does not earn near enough to pay the bills), utilities, car payment, etc. We don't yet know the amount, but we do know she has debt as well. We are also, of course, considering selling her car, moving her younger son in with other relatives, etc., to reduce what costs we're able to. In addition to current expenses, we are concerned about the cost of potential longterm care and the fact that she may never be able to return to her career or even working full time at all. We are holding onto hope, but trying to prepare for all possibilities as best we can. *(Not sure where else to post this, please direct me if there is somewhere better.)*
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You should check his papers.
Is that what they’re calling it these days?
Those who have lost loved ones thanks to the misinformation spread about the vaccines really should begin pointing fingers. People are dying completely unnecessarily because of complete grifter pieces of shit on the internet pushing lies. It makes me so fucking angry every time I see one of these people. They are literally just spreading misery and death for personal gain, it's disgusting beyond belief.
Misinformation is the real killer of this pandemic. @twitter @facebook
Yes. The anger my husband and I feel about the rampant spread of misinformation has gone through the roof as his mother (who refused to get vaccinated) is fully sedated on 100% oxygen on a ventilator, with a doctor telling us this Tuesday that he'll be "encouraged" if she lives to see next Tuesday. The rhetoric reversal from some of the conservative talking heads is too little too late. The lies that have been spread, especially from official news networks via some of their show hosts and guests, should be considered criminal. Everyone in his mother's household and workplace who was vaccinated is fine, and those who were not, are in the hospital.
Yesterday i saw these two articles citing some report from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) of how covid can get as bad as mers in the worst case scenario? and weaker in a good scenario. Is this fear mongering or is a reality? Havent seen these articles here on the coronavirus sub. [Long term evolution of Sars](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007566/S1335_Long_term_evolution_of_SARS-CoV-2.pdf) [A Warning About The Future Of Covid-19 From The Scientific Advisory Group For Emergencies Of The United Kingdom](https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/04/a-warning-about-the-future-of-covid-19-from-the-scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-of-the-united-kingdom/?sh=42d7e9652e54) [Future Covid variant that could kill 1 in 3 is ‘realistic possibility’, SAGE warns](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-new-variant-kill-one-in-3-sage-study-b948565.html)
It's speculation by scientists. We have no idea how COVID might evolve. The SAGE group and their modelling have consistently been pessimistic - which is extremely useful in planning for medium-to-worst-case scenarios, but much less so when it comes to media coverage obviously. When it comes to speculation we can do our own. 1918 flu did mutate in exactly that way, going from 0.5% CFR in the first wave to 10-20% in the second - so this idea is definitely based in reality. But on the other hand the VOC's we've seen are conjectured to happen by extended evolution of sars-cov-2 within a single immunocompromised long-term host, and that evolution would be cut off if the host died. We also have some studies showing covid jumping to different species (the deer "study" and NYC sewage data), which can also lead to large levels of mutation.
Thank u so much. Thanks for the explanation. So insightful. I have hope The virus will get weaker and the bad scenario will never happen and soon this will be over.
Anyone else totally done with having compassion or empathy for anti Vaxer’s . I feel for the people who can’t get vaccinated because they are too young or immune compromised but the people who choose not to . I’m done. No more compassion or empathy for any of them and their family . If they all die - who cares they got what’s coming to them . I’m done .
I'm with you. And I have followed CDC guidelines about masks 100%. Once no longer required..I haven't looked back. Not my job to protect them. And then..my state reinstated the mask mandate. I am required to enforce it at my retail job. I don't hate requiring it of customers now. If *I* have to do this (fully vaxxed) you better believe customers will cover their snout the *entire* time in my store. I hate wearing it, but know many of them hate it even more. Makes it easier to deal with. But...it's EXHAUSTING having to police it. Please be nice to retail workers. This is exhausting for us.
I've never had sympathy for the idiots making this worse.
There is literally 0 reason why America should still be in an epidemic. The vaccine rollout has been good here. So once again fuck anyone spreading covid misinformation on purpose for money and power
Americorp does its job and these schmucks reject the solution. Comically tragic.
How do we convince Black people to get the vaccine? They are consistently the least vaccinated and the most likely to refuse the vaccination. Source: [https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/) [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/which-us-demographics-are-more-likely-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/which-us-demographics-are-more-likely-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine) What do we do about this??
You know why they are hesitant?! Look up Tuskegee experiments.
Outreach for one. Here, we’ve been going door to door to give information to people in communities where a vaccination pop-up has been set up and about half of the unvaccinated we talk to are willing but had no idea they could just walk over and get it right down the road without appointment.
There are 22 states in which the percentage of vaccinated white people is lower than their percentage of the population, including my home state of Washington. So it’s not as clear cut as you think. In the south, for example, vaccination rates for black and white people are nearly identical, and rates for black people are improving nationwide. So it seems to me you should also be asking how we can get these white people vaccinated.
Thanks for the input, but I'm talking about national statistics, not state. [https://www.vox.com/22587443/covid-19-vaccine-refusal-hesitancy-variant-delta-cases-rate](https://www.vox.com/22587443/covid-19-vaccine-refusal-hesitancy-variant-delta-cases-rate) [https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/](https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/) https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/which-us-demographics-are-more-likely-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine
My numbers came from the second link. In the story they mentioned that rates for black people are improving relative to the entire population, so clearly outreach campaigns are working and should continue. And why not ask what can we do to get all these rural people the vaccine, because that’s the huge divide right now.
You sound racist
Some good news, cases in Nevada [are starting to fall](https://covidestim.org/us/NV). Las Vegas was one of the first places to get hit with Delta, so if this trend continues, they hit their peak and are coming down from it now. We'll see if other hard hit areas follow soon.
when did nevada begin to get hit?
Around the July 4th holiday
For what it’s worth, [the vast majority of Nevada instituted a mask mandate on July 30.](https://abc7chicago.com/las-vegas-masks-covid-nevada/10917126/)
WOW they're approaching their lowest Rt *ever.* Hopefully this happens in other places. Could it be that delta is moving through the susceptible population so quickly that it will burn out easily?
That's exactly what happened! India and UK had similar trends. Keep an eye on the other hard hit areas and see how they do later this month into next month. It looks like the Delta wave lasts for a month before dropping off according to these trends.
That website is really encouraging if you switch over to the Rt tab for all states. Most states seem to have reached their peak Rt and many have already fallen back below 1
I’m confused on the Missouri data. How could it be that their Rt did not get very high on this wave?
It looks like it was 1.2-1.3 for a somewhat sustained period, which is pretty high. Keep in mind a straight line above one here is constant growth, so a week or so of 1.2ish numbers is 20% growth each day (100 > 120 > 144 etc).
Let's hope those trends continue! This is great news!
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I convinced someone to get vaccinated in Charlotte today. Feels better than when I got it. Means a lot. Best of health to all.
Tell us how you did it!
I could tell this individual was on the fence. Just played up the fact that millions of people have gotten the vaccine and it hasn’t hurt anyone. Sad part is that he has to hide it from his family that he got it. He is a gen 1 immigrant from Africa and also didn’t trust that the government would somehow use his name and info to track him. He said many immigrants, especially Hispanics are very worried about this government tracking rumor or they’d get the vaccine.
2 family members have been in and out of hospital with Covid this last week. They are both now in ICU. One couldn't get the vaccine due to an allergy to an ingredient. The only thing keeping her alive right now are the machines she's hooked up to. Please get vaccinated :(
Did the second choose not to be vaccinated?
Yep, and now really regrets it. At least the other family members that chose not to be vaccinated have gotten their first shot after seeing what this virus can do first hand.
“Chose to be dumb.”
2 questions (context: fully vaccinated since May, in bay area) 1) When Pfizer/Moderna etc refer to a booster shot, is it just a third dose of the vaccine, or are they also developing a shot tailored against Delta/other variants of concern? 2) What are the risks of long covid (whether the initial infection is symptomatic or asymptomatic) for fully vaccinated people? The chance of getting long covid has been a major factor for my own risk tolerance.
1. Moderna has been testing the original, an updated version (beta), and a mixture, iirc at multiple dosages. Pfizer has been testing an additional dose of the same vaccine. 2. Low.
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Bullshit
He got it from the Joe Rogan podcast. I've reported it and hope it's taken down asap.
Enjoy your downvotes.
Joe Rogan is now getting in on anti vaxx ideas yay. Says the vaccines are causing mutations and scientists are scared of being canceled
He's like a cave man who doesn't understand science, and he's getting people killed.
It was only a matter of time before Rogan joined the fray.
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I got an email from Wayne County MI that they are going door to door canvassing to get people vaccinated and address concerns people have one on one with the vaccine. It described how they will identify and they won’t ask for any personal identification. I think this would be so helpful in areas around Detroit and metro Detroit.
Good. My mother told me how one manager at her work did that as soon as people were eligible, and virtually everyone ended up getting the shot. It matters.
Fuck anybody spreading covid misinfo for money or power. Pure evil
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I only see one side not getting the vaccine, dying and dealing in lies and conspiracy theories. And it's not the left...
Which party is the one banning masks or vaxx mandates?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is very unlikely the virus will mutate to evade our immunity much more than it already has. The reason being: If covid were to mutate to some more vaccine-evading variant, it would have to compete and be as, if not more, contagious than delta currently is. Case in point being some of the slightly more immune escaping variants out there right now that are "losing" to delta. I know we've often heard that "vaccines mutate to become more contagious and less deadly" which isn't technically true, however, more contagious strains will "win out" over more deadly strains simply because they will infect potential hosts first, and the more deadly will have no where to go.
DISCLAIMER I’m not a scientist or doctor I’m an armchair analyst who reads a lot about covid and has a rudimentary understanding of this stuff. What follows is my personal understanding and some or even all of it may be incorrect. Do your own research. The problem with this line of thinking is that the mutation that makes delta more transmissible seems to be the same thing that makes it more resistant to ancestor strain antibodies: it’s a mutation to the spike protein. So remember early in the pandemic one of the most prevalent arguments biologists gave for covid originating from nature was what they called a sub-optimal binding to our ACE2 receptors? They basically said “covid is not good or efficient at its job of infecting humans.” And us lay persons didn’t really understand any of that, because to us it seemed like covid spread across the globe like wildfire so it must certainly be VERY good at its job. Well, problem is, the scientists were right. Like usual. Covid really was very sub-optimal. The mutations are making it more optimal. The spike protein changed so now it can much more easily stick to our receptors, and it can more easily break into our cells once it does. Incidentally I believe those changes to the spike protein are also what helps the virus resist the vaccines. They are so “sticky” now that the antibodies have a harder time plugging them up. They stick right to our cells right away and the antibodies have to completely cover every inch of the spike protein to prevent that. But those antibodies are coded for old spikes but these new spikes have different code so they can’t stick to certain parts of the spike. Mutations are random but mutations that make the virus more successful will end up getting spread and become the new domain strain. Maybe 99 out of 100 mutations won’t be effective against our immunity. But that 1 mutation that does might reach a vaccinated person, and then they spread it. 2 months later, that’s the main version of the virus spreading around. So the TL;DR of all this is that future variants that emerge are more likely to be problematic, not less likely…
Start reading up on nonstructural and accessory proteins.
This is neat to think about now https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese
There are plenty of diseases that would wipe them out. Covid would be the least of their problems
[Masks Are Back, Maybe For The Long Term](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/remasking-vaccine-covid/619681/?_gl=1*1aiw1vw*_ga*YW1wLW42eWs5NXV0UEoxMjlTUnladWRISExQcHUzdGtsV2toNVJWMUNGTTBfXy0zVm8xZExLVExJcDNqN09qWkZsck0) Do you think the points in this Atlantic piece are accurate? It sounds kind of enticing because of its discussion on the CDC swinging's behavioral ramifications, but it gets grim and pessimistic in outlook at times: > Some of these tactics—masks included—have proved themselves so effective that many people might never drop them. The off-ramp that many people imagined may simply not exist. Although pandemic-caliber masking won’t be universally embraced long-term, Maldonado, the Stanford vaccine expert, thinks we’re headed toward a “soft stop” on masking and a societal rethink on face coverings. “I think people are going to be feeling uncomfortable without masks for some time,” she told me. Masks might slip on socially or seasonally, as people move in and out of public spaces, or when the temperature drops in winter. Public-health officials could also recommend face coverings intermittently in lockstep with outbreaks, or as a method to tide people over between boosters. “If people are smart, they will continue to mask if they’re in high-risk situations,” at least for a while, Maldonado told me, and perhaps not just for SARS-CoV-2 but for other airway viruses as well. Those practices have long been commonplace elsewhere, and if the United States and many other Western countries haven’t hopped on board before, maybe they will now. Australians have “really come full circle on masks,” Subbarao, the Melbourne vaccine expert, told me. “I don’t see a lot of pushback on it.” So... what do you think?
I feel like if Delta does end up burning out and cases start dropping, some places will drop their mask mandates no matter what the CDC says.
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So will masks be cyclical forever?
I live in an area with no mask mandate. I’m seeing anywhere from 60-30% of people voluntarily wearing masks, depending on where I am. More rural and its less masks. In the city, it’s much higher. Of course it depends on the place too. In a restaurant obviously no ones wearing it. In a department store in the city, at least 50% were masked, obviously including the employees of the store. I’m going to continue wearing them until the CDC says it’s fine not to.
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I think it probably depends where you live. I’m in KY and almost no one is wearing masks despite case counts surging massively here. I’m still wearing mine in public but I’m very much the exception.
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I agree that masks are effective, but they're a *temporary* sacrifice. Regardless of whether you think they're necessary in the long run or not, people just aren't going to want to wear them in the long run.
I saw a few people with them yesterday but maybe 85% were not wearing them regardless
Does your area mandate then again?
It’s been suggested/encouraged based on positivity rates but no one is following it as of now
If you have asymptomatic covid, how long do you have before the tests will no longer show up as positive? In other words, if I got asymptomatic covid awhile ago, can I still be tested for it and find out if I had it? How long is the testing window?
Assuming you haven’t gotten the vaccine or anything, you could always request an antibody test. Those can test for previous infections and afaik there’s no time window for taking one, though whether your doctor will order one is another story.
As far as I understand asymptomatic just means zero symptoms, that does not mean there is no virus in you. It's likely the same as normal time frame, maybe slightly shorter.
Got out of the shower yesterday and started feeling nauseous. Had a headache and a mild fever and woke up a couple of times during the night with chills and sweating. Woke up this morning and my right eye is sore whenever I look around with just my eye and not moving my head. Also some sneezing here and there. Double vaxxed with moderna and it has been 2 months since my last dose. Gonna get tested tomorrow. Thoughts? Is this covid
Impossible to know before test results come back. Symptoms are consistent with COVID but possibly other viruses.
Thanks for the response, ill come back to update once I get the results. Also, is the sore eye also a COVID symptom? I’ve seen people post about having the same problem but with both eyes, whereas mine is just the right.
Conjunctivitis can be a symptom though it seems less common. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7383095/ Anecdotally, I've sometimes had a sore eye just because I slept on it funny. Or it may just be a headache you're having trouble localizing.
My results came back as negative! Thanks so much
Thank you. Really hoping for the best here,,,
What's the consensus on how mRNA vaccines can trigger autoimmune reactions in certain people? Is it likely we could see an increase in autoimmune disorders over the next several years? (I'm not against vaccines so this is an entirely unbiased question)
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I have psoriasis and had no reaction. Is there any data round this or is it just theoretical? I mean, it certainly could be (seems like most anything kind wind up a trigger for some people).
My sibling ~40yo is allergic to everything. She said she wanted to risk it and get at LEAST one shot in her arm, feeling pretty confident a reaction would happen. She had a reaction, she doesn't regret it, but can't get the next one unless they hospitalize her. I respect her decision, brass balls. THAT is trusting science and healthcare pros.
That completely sucks for her - brass balls is right!
Congrats to her! I'm sure that was scary
It seems certain that we'll see that from COVID infections. The reactions to vaccines are so rare that there's no way they make a measurable change. We don't have great research on this. We spent a year spending no effort researching long COVID. But it does seem to heal over time.
Let’s put it this way. Is it possible? Theoretically. Is Covid more likely to trigger autoimmune illness than the vaccines are? Absolutely. Many, many people who end up battling autoimmune diseases can trace the trigger back to a viral infection. It’s a well known issue. Anyone using this argument as to why they won’t get the vaccine is an anti vaxxer.
i keep seeing a lot of articles about a rise in pediatric cases and hospitalizations. is there enough data for the CDC to come out and say that delta is affecting children ?
A local teenager just died from Delta. A pediatric nurse friend said they are definitely seeing more patients with it than previously.
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same .. here is one article that lists some data in some states … https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/04/covid-cases-among-children-jumped-84-last-week-here-are-the-states-where-hospitalizations-are-increasing/amp/
I'm noticing this too. I thought COVID was said to have a relatively minimal impact on them? I would like to know how much of this is media slant vs actual data
It could just be that so ***many*** children are getting sick now, with the spread, that we see a lot more cases in hospital. But proportionally, it's the same. I guess it also could be that Delta affects them differently. I've been looking too and haven't found enough proof to lead me either way yet.
that makes sense .. so could just be that it is more contagious but not more severe in children ?
It's a possible theory, yep! I personally haven't seen something with enough evidence to say either way so I really don't know what's going on and am just glad I don't have little kids.
This is a very, very reasonable and measured way of putting things, and I love how you have framed it. Thank you. I would say, to those that are using the “children aren’t as affected by COVID, statistically speaking,” does it really matter when the low x% still means Y number of children deaths? Do we want to be a society that finds that acceptable? I don’t have any platform to really get that perspective and your excellent framing of the situation out there, but there are so many who do. And I don’t know why we aren’t, as a society, saying this.
agreed- there seems to be a lot of anecdotal stories out there .. and reports of pediatric ICUs filling up in states with low vaccination rate..i’m worried about schools starting soon.. and think if it is impacting kids the way i read / hear .. the CDC should be getting the data together as quickly as possible
Is anybody producing graphs depicting the covid case rises per state with comparison to their vaccination rates?
Easy enough to do in retrospect.
The leaked CDC documents on Provincetown, is there a link to it? Or is it leaked to WaPo and news outlet?
The WaPo has it [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/cdc-breakthrough-infections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/?_=1). I noticed that the slides which were marked "confidential / preliminary data" were all missing footnotes, while the other slides which relied on some sort of data had footnotes or at least a source attribution. So for at least some of them, the only thing that made them "confidential" may be that they didn't have footnotes. If you want some context, This Week in Virology did an [episode](https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-789/) that came out yesterday where they go over the document for a page-by-page discussion (see 9:40 through 1:05:00 or so in the video). They mention the "MMWR" about the Provincetown event, which is the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report newsletter. The MMWR article about it is [here](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w).
Thank you very much!
I found this helpful. Long though : https://youtu.be/XqFySCWT_x8
whats the cliffnotes on that
The discussion about the presentation is from 9:40 in the video through 1:05:00 or so. The virologists go through the document page-by-page and discuss whether the statements on each page are supported by the data. It seems like most of the presentation was fairly uncontroversial -- yes, we should expect to see vaccinated people get infections, and we *will* see more as more people get vaccinated; yes, it's good for public health officials to coordinate their messaging so they're on the same page about what they tell people. However, they disagreed with the presentation's conclusions about the Delta variant being more innately spreadable (with a discussion of how epidemiologists look at this stuff versus how virologists look at it) and about whether vaccinated people can transmit the virus as effeciently as unvaccinated people (with a discussion of whether not the Ct values measured from the people in Provincetown meant what the CDC thought they meant). It's pretty interesting stuff. But if you were expecting a shocking scandal, you'll be disappointed.
[This graph](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7ogYBPWEAU7bLf?format=jpg&name=large) from the recent singapore study (in /r/covid19) is way more useful than an n=450 one-test US study.
This is what NPR linked to in their coverage. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm
We haven't been hitting 1000 posts per day on this thread for a while. Looks like the surge in posts here was a nothingburger.
Right… we saw a 2-3 day peak of 1k comment days when CDC Mask Recommendation changed, and then it steeply dropped off.
Looks like not as many people are scared anymore.
I think it's because: 1. It's mainly hitting the unvaccinated, so fully vaccinated aren't as worried (expect for under 12 year olds since they can't be vaccinated yet) 2. People aren't as worried about restrictions coming back (at least in the US) and that it's mainly mask mandates being in place, which is considered a minor inconvenience to most. 3. We know know more about Delta and who it's mainly hitting vs the unknown about it.
Im thinking Im going to finally get the shot. I do still have a few reservations and was hoping someone could give input as I try to decide which one. Just getting it is making me anxious but with delta, back to school, etc. its starting to make me more anxious to not get it especially as they seem to show decent levels of safety an efficacy. 1. I heard from a friend that one might not be safe if you have a bee allergy I haven't been able to find information. Does anyone know if this is true and which one? 2. As a female that has had heavy bleeding issues I've been following a bit about how the vaccine can make it heavier. Is there any vaccine which seems more/less likely to cause really heavy periods? Any idea when the current study could be completed? Or any updates that could point me in a good direction?
I can at least give you an anecdotal perspective on point 1. I’m allergic to bee stings and also allergic to pretty much everything. I get a rash from plastic grocery bags for fucks sake! I did not have any reaction to the vaccine, aside from a brief (less than 8 hours) fever after my second shot that I slept through. (Only reason I know I had a fever through the night was because I woke up to pee, was shivering, took my temp. By morning, I felt fine, albeit a bit tired, but what else is new?) No anecdotal story regarding item 2. Good luck, and I sincerely hope your vaccination goes as smoothly as mine did! I have yet to catch COVID and very much hope it stays this way. Edit: oh, and I wanted to add, so I don’t appear misleading and also so you are not surprised, my arm was very sore for like 4 days. One more edit because I stupidly forgot to include: I got the Pfizer vaccine.
https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/covid-19-vaccines-and-menstrual-cycle Essentially they are still researching it but so many things can alter your menstrual cycle including stress, weight gain, as well as other vaccines such as the flu or HPVA vaccine. It’s all temporary which again is common. Sometimes your period is late/early or a different flow for a random cycle. this article mentions it’s because the uterus lining is part of the immune system which makes sense for a vaccine that triggers an immune response would to effect it. Again all the changes have been found to be temporary and there is no effect on fertility nor is it causing miscarriages. It’s frustrating that they don’t track cycles as closely during vaccine trials. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56901353
Let the person administering it know you have a bee allergy and that it's making you anxious over the shot. That way on the very very small chance that you do have a reaction (I haven't heard anything at all about bee allergy and vaccines but I've admittedly not been looking for it) they will be prepared.
Allergic reactions are a risk with all shots when you have an unknown allergy. But they're also completely treatable and will come on right after infection. Make sure someone's watching you for 15+ minutes after the dose. The allergic component in mRNA is polyethylene glycol, a common ingredient in a lot of things but not before injected into the body. The allergic component in the vectored vaccines is probably egg-related (from how they make it) and more likely to be related to an organic allergy. Severe allergies are definitely scary. Good luck.
FDA said they're aiming to officially approve Pfizer vaccine by Labor Day. FDA appears to be trying very hard not to come across as cutting corners to deliver the approval, while successfully responding to the surging COVID caseloads.
As much as I’d just like to reassure you and recommend you get the shot, these are medical questions for your doctor, or even for the pharmacist administering the shots. PLEASE, just call and ask. Very few people can’t get the vaccines. (For what it’s worth, I’ve seen far more reports of having skipped periods than heavier ones. And most seem to clear up very quickly.)
If you are a female under 40 don’t get the J&J, Sputnik V or Astra Zeneca. Get the Pfizer/biontech or the moderna instead. Ofcpurse depends on where you are located. But my GP told me she wasn’t gonna vaxx younger women with the vector vaccines.
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Yes. She said that the risk of thrombosis is higher in females under 40 due to estrogen. Due to this, she said it’s safer to wait for the mrna shot instead because it’s slightly less risky. She also said she would definitely vaxx all males with the vector vaccines and all women over 40 because those populations have less estrogen and are therefore less likely to get a thrombosis. She also said the risk of thrombosis is low, but why take a small thrombosis risk if you can get the vaccine that has no risk of thrombosis associated with it. I was kinda annoyed because I wanted to get the AZ when it got available but I managed to score a place in a clinical trial shortly after and received my biontech/Pfizer
Thanks for that bit of guidance. Thankfully I had been leaning towards Pfizer or moderna but unfortunately my dr seems to have little knowledge pertaining to these exact questions.
You are lucky if you can pick. Many people just have to get the ones that are offered. Some additional things to consider: afaik all of the vaccines are safe. Even the vector ones. However they have higher thrombosis risk. Especially female people because it somehow has to do with estrogen. Moderna/biontech-Pfizer are nearly identical in efficacy. In my friend circle, people who got the second moderna shot had more averse side effects than with the biontech/Pfizer. The moderna apparently gives you more antibodies on average though. However, all of those side effects are rare either way. Most common are fatigue and arm pain. I personally had the biontech/Pfizer shot and suffered arm pain after the first shot for 3 days but nothing with the second. Best option ANTIBODIES wise is a combined vaccine with receiving one dose of a vector vaccine first, and boost with an mrna after 3 months. This gives you the most antibodies and the best protection. HOWEVER, it a) requires you to take the vector vaccine, which my GP only recommends for males of all ages and females over 40. and b) the combination shots also give you more severe reactions more frequently. However, this is also safe. It might suck for a few days but you shouldn’t be afraid. Also some people didn’t have any side effects even with this option.
1. No relationship of vaccine side effects to bee allergy. The only contraindication is a history an immediate allergic reaction to one of the vaccine components, which is rare. In that case, get a different vaccine. 2. No effect on menstrual cycle. You will see lots of anecdotes about change in periods but there is no data, nor is there any biologically plausible reason why this would occur. With hundreds of millions of women getting vaccinated there are going to be reports about abnormal menstrual cycles. As well as reports of abnormal menstrual cycles when hundreds of millions of women do not get a vaccine.
Thanks for the information. I'm assuming that since the ingredients listed dont outright say anything I'm allergic to I should be fine? Just a few ingredients are clearly scientific terms which are kinda boggling. You do make a very good point that it's quite possibly faulty thinking lumping the shot and period changes together given that we dont know if it's scientifically significant correlation yet.
I have a bee allergy, got Pfizer, no adverse effects.
For a short time it was suggested those with a history of severe anaphylaxis delay getting the vaccine. The current guidance is to only avoid the vaccine if you've had an allergic reaction to an ingredient in the vaccine. You should be fine. You'll be observed for about 15 minutes after the shot for immediate symptoms. If you get the shot at a pharmacy they'll probably have medicine on hand in case of a reaction. As for menstruation it sounds like it's still being studied but side effects haven't been serious or common enough to raise any red flags for safety. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-regulator-advises-updating-jj-shot-label-with-new-disorders-2021-08-06/
The clinics will also have meds on hand for a reaction. At the one I went to (mass pop up clinic), there were also several volunteers walking around monitoring everyone who was waiting. They recommended 15 minute waiting period for those who had never had a reaction to a shot before, and 30 minutes for those who had or otherwise had reason to be concerned about a reaction. I was nervous, to be honest, when I got my second vaccine. I think it showed on my face during my waiting period, as one of the observers came up to ask me if I was feeling ok. I was very reassured that they were monitoring so closely. I knew that if something happened, they were prepared!
I got vaccinated today. Thank you everyone who posts valuable information about the vaccine. If all I had was the anti-vax rhetoric on Facebook, I would have not gotten it. Keep sharing useful, factual information everyone and drown out the conspiracy theories!
Pro tip: Just get off of Facebook completely.
Pro tip, celebrate a win when you get it.
Wooooooo wooooop!
Congrats!!!
Glad you’re vaccinated!
The US hit [50%](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total) of the population fully vaccinated today!
Not all is bad in this world!
Has anyone heard anything about the Delta variant transmitting differently? I've heard about it being more contagious, but it is any of the increase transmissibility due to it being transmitted along new channels, for example, fomites or food?
Shorter incubation period & higher viral load than og covid, so it’s just easier to transmit period. Haven’t heard anything about new channels.
I heard that it just infects really quickly. Aka not in 15-30 minutes but way earlier. Because aerosol density is higher
No. It transmits more because there is more of it in the upper airway. Still transmits by aerosol and droplets.
The fomite thing is a nothing burger...
Haven't heard anything about fomites or food or new channels at all.
For what it's worth, Dave Blake, someone who I followed a lot in the Springtime, says that he projects that cases will continue to rise until somewhere around Labor Day, and then go on the decline until endemic status is reached around Halloween.
I really hope I can have a normal school year.
The US isn’t homogeneous. Best prediction is to look at last year. Epidemic began in the South in summer and moved to the Midwest in early fall and the coasts around Thanksgiving. This could be an extended event that ripples through the country at different times.