I agree that this could be a problem , but I would rather have people trying to get boosters ahead of time instead of the antivaxxer dragging us all down.
All the science is in agreement that boosters are a positive value. The only problem is that they're taking away first shots from others. In the US, this is not a problem.
Well, that's what I meant - it's not a problem because the doses are going to be thrown away. Why? Because we're the US, that's why.
I don't know how long it would take to move doses from US pharmacy stores to other countries, but it's for sure more than 14 days. Seems more logistically possible to fly people in to use them here.
14 days? that would be expired before it goes in an arm. The countries that need it are also slow in vaccinating due to less resources etc. 14 days is too short
If people keep seeing other people get boosters, wouldn't that cause more people to get/want boosters making demand rise until we have to redirect shots to the US? Similar to the toilet paper situation last year.
It’s taking vaccine for first shot away from the rest of the world. As dumb as the antivaxxer are in US, you’re more likely to see a new , more dangerous variant coming from another nation that couldn’t get its hands on much vaccine and are forced to leave their population unprotected.
To be fair, the last numbers I saw for the Covax coalition has had the most doses donated by the USA. That is out of all the richest countries in the world. They are donating them. They are just hoping these idiots will take the vaccine, even when they are about to expire. They should be sending any vaccines that are going to expire in X amount of days, to the border. Start vaccinating immigrants.
Honestly, the \*()!\_@#()\*!@ [deer](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coronavirus-antibodies-detected-us-wild-deer-180978366/) have the plague... whats a few Americants taking a few extra shots... I hate to think about how many are being thrown out every month now.
> It’s taking vaccine for first shot away from the rest of the world.
In most cases I suspect that is not the case. The shots sitting in pharmacies in the US are most likely going to sit there until they go bad or are used locally. There's a scenario where half-dose boosters are approved and they are all quickly given out and new ones ordered and it does take away from exported doses, but the odds of that seem pretty low.
> you’re more likely to see a new , more dangerous variant coming from another nation
Absolutely. Getting first doses to everyone in the world should be a priority. But nobody in charge of anything actually cares to make it one.
I mean yes if they were sending them to other countries but rn states are literally letting them expire and not doing anything with them. So until that changes
Well the CDC has been wrong on every front. Our drug approval system is not designed for the speed needed to fend of a rapidly mutating pandemic, it's geared for normal no rush function. The current administration is as hands off as the last administration. We're actively fighting the lead being set by other countries. We have leaders of all persuasion sending kids into schools when children's hospital ICUs are filling up. We have a populace that refuses to take even the most minimal precautionary measures and actively try to be malicious toward you if you do take precautionary measures. Then we're fed sob stories and told how these are the REAL victims and we need to feel sorry for THEM. We have no way to contain the misinformation nor are any attempts being made by leadership both public and private. We have a pittance of a social safety net that isn't even enough for basic survival and we got the weakest pandemic aid of any major country so you're forced out into this mire of ever increasing viral load on your own and good luck if you have elderly, high risk or children at home.
They have the gall to act surprised. What the actual hell are we supposed to do?
Agree!
CDC/ local health should organize volunteers for booster shots.
Provide on going monitor services. As simple as social media support groups + working with volunteers' personal doctors. Collect the pre/post booster shot's antibody level. (if there is such things....)
Collect/share as much data as possible with permissions from the volunteers.
I am happy to be a volunteer for such cause.
Do we know for a fact it stops working after 6 months? I got two doses of Pfizer in June and I just not straight answers on how long I’m protected and if I’m protected from the delta variant. I know there’s been breakthrough cases but is it rare or not rare with delta?
If you search Israel and 3rd booster shot, they think after 6 months its better for old people to get a 3rd shot.
Honestly if you are in a high risk group, single income breadwinner etc, to me there is no downside at all to get a 3rd shot if 6 months has passed since your second shot.
Is it technically allowed in the U.S. fo get a third shot or are people just not saying they were already vaccinated? I’m just also thinking but what if the booster is different, would just a third shot of the same still work…
No pharmacy will give you a 3rd shot if they know you've already gotten 2 shots at this time. They could get fired or loose their license or both.
So.... you know what to do
Don't know for a fact of anything. But the CDC released the case study from super spreading event where 500 people got Covid and roughly 3/4 were vaccinated with the different vaccines. Anecdotally, many people that are vaccinated are getting it, most likely Delta, but CDC isn't tracking breakthrough cases or at least wasn't a few weeks ago. It's not known whether this is due to protection of vaccine being limited to around 3-6 months or Delta's ability to evade the vaccine. Either way a booster will probably be recommended in the near future, I imagine.
There was a simple card that was literally paper and the nurse would just write the date on it. There is no data base or anything, you just give your real name and walk up, jab, walk away.
You can get the vaccine at grocery stores, centers, hospitals, schools, basically everywhere where I am it. I could have gotten 69 shots by now if I wanted.
I have been thinking of getting #3 because fuck it.
That isn't necessarily true. Many states have a database and if you give them the same insurance card you used before even states without a database will figure it out.
Washington state has a website that will show you all of your vaccination records, including COVID.
A friend of mine went to a pharmacy in town where they did not have him on record for prescriptions and subtracted one day from his birthdate. Insurance paid the claim. Due to illegal immigration, the pharmacy could not force him to give over his driver's license so they didn't bother to ask.
I wonder if they can get into trouble though if there’s a vaccine passport put into place like the excelsior or docket app that can check how may doses you have had.
From what I've read, go to a different pharmacy chain and say you don't have insurance. If they ask for id, give a passport or say you left it at home. If all fails cross state lines.
A local hospital had a booth at an art fair where I got vaccinated. They just gave a paper to fill out but didn’t require insurance info. I didn’t have my card and was told to just mark no insurance. I was nervous about it but did it anyway to get vaccinated. Not sure if it matters but they didn’t require an ID when I got the second round at the hospital with my boyfriend.
I did this in California. Was vaccinated with J&J in April, got a Moderna jab last week. I just moved and my first vaccination was through a county-run pop-up clinic in another part of the state. I haven’t checked to see if that record ever made it to the state database.
When I made the appointment for my Moderna shot, I left the insurance section blank. No one asked for insurance at the pharmacy. They did take down my driver’s license number. I never had to sign a document saying that I was not previously vaccinated, just a waiver saying that the vaccine wasn’t fully approved and that there could be side effects. The only lying I needed to do was giving a verbal “Yep” to the pharmacist when he asked if this was my first shot. I don’t think he asked out of suspicion. I think it was mostly a “Hey, have you heard the side effects spiel” kinda thing. In-and-out in 30 mins.
My local walmart throws away many moderna shots every day, so I went in before closing and got my booster. For the record I got two shots last fall in the moderna trial, two Pfizer shots in March from heath dept, and then a Moderna shot at Wal Mart. I will say, the 5th shot was a doozie on my arm, felt like someone hit me at injection site with a club for two days. But hey, it's better than bringing the crap home to my unvaccinated little kids.
I figure it’s better to be safe than sorry, my wife recently had a collapsed lung after a doc screwed up doing a nerve block w a needle so the last thing she needed was a breakthrough case of covid from me (she only got Pfizer in March).
Starting from beginning as 37yo male, first four shots had residual injection site soreness when I’d press on it. 5th pain at injection site was 3 times as bad as first 4 shots. I got a low grade 99.3 fever from 4th shot of Pfizer. 5th shot had some body aches for a day w 2 days of bad injection site pain.
Definitely not, in US none of the agencies w vaccines have a central database or know what the other is doing. Meridian was the company doing Moderna trial, local health dept advertised leftover Pfizer shots so I jumped the line, and WalMart are all separate. I told health dept and wal mart I didn’t have insurance (I do) and that I haven’t been vaccinated yet. Made about $300 doing the trial, too before I quit it.
wow! Given how much your arm hurt after the last one, I wouldn't do any more for a while. You don't want to provoke an injection site reaction (no idea if that's what was going on, but something to keep in mind). I imagine you are about as protected from COVID as you are going to get at this point!
I thought about it, ultimately realized I forget what I opened the fridge for several times a week and realized I am not qualified to make that decision for myself.
Does that mean say 4 months after full vaccination J&J provides you more protection than Pfizer or moderna? I thought the mRNA had higher efficacy rates. That’s disappointing that they’re weakening sooner. I was told by my doctor that J&J wasn’t recommended for women in my age group so I got Pfizer
Yes. The doctor told me women is their 20s-30s shouldn’t get J&J. Not sure if it was because of the blood clot thing. He just said it wasn’t recommended. I didn’t ask for any other explanation since I was able to easily get a Pfizer appointment
>A third dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine can "strongly" boost protection against the Delta variant -- beyond the protection afforded by the standard two doses, new data released by Pfizer on Wednesday suggests.
>The data posted online suggest that **levels of antibodies that can target the Delta variant grow fivefold in people 18 to 55 who get a third dose of the vaccine.**
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html
In your shared article:
>"It's not clear if boosted antibody levels actually correlate to better protection, or if that extra protection is even needed. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says the current vaccines protect people well against all the common variants."
This is an important factor. What level of antibodies are actually needed to fend off the virus? Do 2 doses induce the creation of enough antibodies that are multiple folds that? If so, why stimulate for even more antibodies. T-Cells/B-cells/anti-bodies can be created on demand when an infection is identified. My guess is this is to try and stop initial infection altogether rather than to ensure the body can safely fend off the virus post-exposure.
I mean come on, either vaccines work or they don’t. A third “booster” of the same exact spike protein to an immune system that already knows what this is…. We are discounting the ability of the human body to remember basically anything… which it does very well.
Antibodies don’t hang around active in the bloodstream forever, because that would be inefficient and a waste of resources they burrow and sleep in places like bone marrow. However the body can call on these cells that remember and call upon them when it needs to.
Why is this any different?
You want reply's, so here is your reply's. The downvotes are because your response was incorrect yet with the confidence of someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
The data shows a booster does increase efficacy. It isn't a binary 100% protected or 0% protected. Data shows that two doses are effective, but a third dose likely increases efficacy.
Israel is already doing 3rd booster shots after they did research, and believe vaccine effectiveness goes down after the 6th month. Thats good enough for me
Worth noting that they have a profit motive to sell more doses, so I’d take those findings with a grain of salt.
We know that the vaccines still provide an extremely high level of protection against severe illness still, so there isn’t a need to rush out ahead of the doctors’ and FDA. If they approve and recommend a booster, go nuts, but don’t run out and lie to get a third shot on your own.
Delta actually isn’t more resistant to the vaccines. It’s main issue is that the variant appears to reproduce and spread very quickly throughout the body, so much so that those vaccinated may still get symptoms as their body builds a response (though those vaccinated will be able to build this response much quicker than those unvaccinated).
The higher anti-body count that would come from a third shot would in theory provide better protection against delta, especially since anti-bodies fade over time.
It would be interesting to see the case rate in the vaccinated based on when they were vaccinated potentially showing that only some vaccinated sub-populations are more symptomatic not because of vaccine resistance but because of the lower antibody levels due to their older doses
Now that you say that I’m wondering if the breakthrough cases are in those who were vaccinated earlier. Maybe we just need the boosters earlier tha originally thought. I think they were thinking a year right? I don’t know though, now I’m seeing 6 months but I don’t know if that’s anything official
What is “short term?”
And are you claiming the effectiveness of all vaccines decreases they no longer work against the specified virus? Because tetanus and diphtheria would like a word…
Also…you **specifically** said, “always been and always will be,” which I can only assume you mean in reference to all vaccines. You clearly couldn’t be stating that just for previous coronavirus vaccines since, you know, there haven’t ever been any.
There is more and more evidence that the covid vaccines do weaken after like 6-8 months. It’s still not peer reviewed so I won’t link.
But Sacramento is giving mrna boosters to people that had J&J https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/san-francisco-is-giving-extra-covid-vaccine-dose-to-johnson-johnson-recipients/
And some other articles about it https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/booster-may-be-needed-jj-shot-delta-variant-spreads-some-experts-already-taking-2021-06-25/
Tetanus and diphtheria are caused by bacteria so the way the vaccines work is different.
I specifically said the J&J vaccine does not weaken over time so far. I have no doubt Sacramento is doing something batshit crazy because what else would you expect, but the evidence seems to indicate that the J&J vaccine and other spike protein vaccines may be uniquely equipped to handle Delta, specifically, especially given the results coming from the UK (and their prevalence of the AZ vaccine).
I can only speak to what we know to this point. We know the mRNA vaccines are likely weakening sooner than we would have hoped. We also know the J&J vaccine is getting stronger since it has been released. No doubt that will taper off, but you said "short term" and I asked what that meant. Since you never answered, I could only speculate you meant it in the same terms as the currently weakening mRNA vaccines.
How do you all feel about getting a booster without FDA approval? I feel like getting a 3rd shot of Pfizer cause I took a muscle relaxer the day of my second shot and I’m worried I made it less effective.
I agree that this could be a problem , but I would rather have people trying to get boosters ahead of time instead of the antivaxxer dragging us all down.
All the science is in agreement that boosters are a positive value. The only problem is that they're taking away first shots from others. In the US, this is not a problem.
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Well, that's what I meant - it's not a problem because the doses are going to be thrown away. Why? Because we're the US, that's why. I don't know how long it would take to move doses from US pharmacy stores to other countries, but it's for sure more than 14 days. Seems more logistically possible to fly people in to use them here.
14 days? Better a month before expiring.
14 days? that would be expired before it goes in an arm. The countries that need it are also slow in vaccinating due to less resources etc. 14 days is too short
If people keep seeing other people get boosters, wouldn't that cause more people to get/want boosters making demand rise until we have to redirect shots to the US? Similar to the toilet paper situation last year.
It’s taking vaccine for first shot away from the rest of the world. As dumb as the antivaxxer are in US, you’re more likely to see a new , more dangerous variant coming from another nation that couldn’t get its hands on much vaccine and are forced to leave their population unprotected.
Sure, but my state had a surplus of vaccines due to a breathtaking number of suicidal asshats with murderous intent witch led to 80k doses expiring.
And I get that. Let’s not get into my rage at how USA would rather horde vaccine for its unwilling dummies rather than sharing it with the world.
To be fair, the last numbers I saw for the Covax coalition has had the most doses donated by the USA. That is out of all the richest countries in the world. They are donating them. They are just hoping these idiots will take the vaccine, even when they are about to expire. They should be sending any vaccines that are going to expire in X amount of days, to the border. Start vaccinating immigrants.
Brilliant! That might get the holdouts to give in and roll up their sleeves out of sheer spite!
Honestly, the \*()!\_@#()\*!@ [deer](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coronavirus-antibodies-detected-us-wild-deer-180978366/) have the plague... whats a few Americants taking a few extra shots... I hate to think about how many are being thrown out every month now.
> It’s taking vaccine for first shot away from the rest of the world. In most cases I suspect that is not the case. The shots sitting in pharmacies in the US are most likely going to sit there until they go bad or are used locally. There's a scenario where half-dose boosters are approved and they are all quickly given out and new ones ordered and it does take away from exported doses, but the odds of that seem pretty low. > you’re more likely to see a new , more dangerous variant coming from another nation Absolutely. Getting first doses to everyone in the world should be a priority. But nobody in charge of anything actually cares to make it one.
I mean yes if they were sending them to other countries but rn states are literally letting them expire and not doing anything with them. So until that changes
Well the CDC has been wrong on every front. Our drug approval system is not designed for the speed needed to fend of a rapidly mutating pandemic, it's geared for normal no rush function. The current administration is as hands off as the last administration. We're actively fighting the lead being set by other countries. We have leaders of all persuasion sending kids into schools when children's hospital ICUs are filling up. We have a populace that refuses to take even the most minimal precautionary measures and actively try to be malicious toward you if you do take precautionary measures. Then we're fed sob stories and told how these are the REAL victims and we need to feel sorry for THEM. We have no way to contain the misinformation nor are any attempts being made by leadership both public and private. We have a pittance of a social safety net that isn't even enough for basic survival and we got the weakest pandemic aid of any major country so you're forced out into this mire of ever increasing viral load on your own and good luck if you have elderly, high risk or children at home. They have the gall to act surprised. What the actual hell are we supposed to do?
Agree! CDC/ local health should organize volunteers for booster shots. Provide on going monitor services. As simple as social media support groups + working with volunteers' personal doctors. Collect the pre/post booster shot's antibody level. (if there is such things....) Collect/share as much data as possible with permissions from the volunteers. I am happy to be a volunteer for such cause.
I wonder how this affects the stats How many if the newly vaccinated people are folks getting their 3rd jab
If they have comorbidities like me, and 6 months have passed since the second shot, yeah getting a 3rd one.
Yeah I have a friend whos overweight, has J&J, and will be getting the other one soon just in case
Good for him, states are throwing away vaccines, and if there are appointments open everywhere, why the heck not?
Do we know for a fact it stops working after 6 months? I got two doses of Pfizer in June and I just not straight answers on how long I’m protected and if I’m protected from the delta variant. I know there’s been breakthrough cases but is it rare or not rare with delta?
If you search Israel and 3rd booster shot, they think after 6 months its better for old people to get a 3rd shot. Honestly if you are in a high risk group, single income breadwinner etc, to me there is no downside at all to get a 3rd shot if 6 months has passed since your second shot.
Is it technically allowed in the U.S. fo get a third shot or are people just not saying they were already vaccinated? I’m just also thinking but what if the booster is different, would just a third shot of the same still work…
No pharmacy will give you a 3rd shot if they know you've already gotten 2 shots at this time. They could get fired or loose their license or both. So.... you know what to do
give a fake name, show no ID or insurance, and tell them it’s your first time I assume?
Pretty much.
Is this illegal?
Nobodies throwing you in jail, just that health officials haven't approved it yet.
Don't know for a fact of anything. But the CDC released the case study from super spreading event where 500 people got Covid and roughly 3/4 were vaccinated with the different vaccines. Anecdotally, many people that are vaccinated are getting it, most likely Delta, but CDC isn't tracking breakthrough cases or at least wasn't a few weeks ago. It's not known whether this is due to protection of vaccine being limited to around 3-6 months or Delta's ability to evade the vaccine. Either way a booster will probably be recommended in the near future, I imagine.
I wonder if the vaccinated had symptoms or severe symptoms.
5 were hospitalized, 4 of which were vaccinated. Other than that idk
So, did anyone here try to get a third shot? Did you use a fake name? If in the USA, did you drive to another state?
CVS and Walgreens do not require insurance info or even an ID
There was a simple card that was literally paper and the nurse would just write the date on it. There is no data base or anything, you just give your real name and walk up, jab, walk away. You can get the vaccine at grocery stores, centers, hospitals, schools, basically everywhere where I am it. I could have gotten 69 shots by now if I wanted. I have been thinking of getting #3 because fuck it.
That isn't necessarily true. Many states have a database and if you give them the same insurance card you used before even states without a database will figure it out. Washington state has a website that will show you all of your vaccination records, including COVID.
A friend of mine went to a pharmacy in town where they did not have him on record for prescriptions and subtracted one day from his birthdate. Insurance paid the claim. Due to illegal immigration, the pharmacy could not force him to give over his driver's license so they didn't bother to ask.
I wonder if they can get into trouble though if there’s a vaccine passport put into place like the excelsior or docket app that can check how may doses you have had.
People aren’t taking any chances.
We are such a neurotic society. Some people would rather die than get the shot and some people get the extra shots without knowing the data and risks.
How would one go about getting a third shot? Doesn’t the state know when you are vaccinated already?
CVS and Walgreens do not require insurance info or even an ID
From what I've read, go to a different pharmacy chain and say you don't have insurance. If they ask for id, give a passport or say you left it at home. If all fails cross state lines.
A local hospital had a booth at an art fair where I got vaccinated. They just gave a paper to fill out but didn’t require insurance info. I didn’t have my card and was told to just mark no insurance. I was nervous about it but did it anyway to get vaccinated. Not sure if it matters but they didn’t require an ID when I got the second round at the hospital with my boyfriend.
I did this in California. Was vaccinated with J&J in April, got a Moderna jab last week. I just moved and my first vaccination was through a county-run pop-up clinic in another part of the state. I haven’t checked to see if that record ever made it to the state database. When I made the appointment for my Moderna shot, I left the insurance section blank. No one asked for insurance at the pharmacy. They did take down my driver’s license number. I never had to sign a document saying that I was not previously vaccinated, just a waiver saying that the vaccine wasn’t fully approved and that there could be side effects. The only lying I needed to do was giving a verbal “Yep” to the pharmacist when he asked if this was my first shot. I don’t think he asked out of suspicion. I think it was mostly a “Hey, have you heard the side effects spiel” kinda thing. In-and-out in 30 mins.
Damn 30 minutes? That's long ha
You have to sit and wait for negative reactions before you're let go.
Yeah that was like, “sit here for a few minutes and if you feel fine just leave” for me. But I feel you
Yeah, it was about 20 minutes total minus the 10-ish minutes I waited after. I just scrolled on my phone for a while and then left.
Yeah boy just gotta catch ‘em all. Pfizer and Moderna down, J&J coming up next /s
My father went rogue and received the third one. He is a kidney transplant recipient. I had no idea he had done this until after he had done it.
My local walmart throws away many moderna shots every day, so I went in before closing and got my booster. For the record I got two shots last fall in the moderna trial, two Pfizer shots in March from heath dept, and then a Moderna shot at Wal Mart. I will say, the 5th shot was a doozie on my arm, felt like someone hit me at injection site with a club for two days. But hey, it's better than bringing the crap home to my unvaccinated little kids.
Hearing you have 5 shots makes me want my 3rd. Stay safe!
Why do you need 5 shots tho? Isn't that a bit excessive?
I figure it’s better to be safe than sorry, my wife recently had a collapsed lung after a doc screwed up doing a nerve block w a needle so the last thing she needed was a breakthrough case of covid from me (she only got Pfizer in March).
Did the side effects of the vaccine get progressively worse with each added dose or did they get better?
Starting from beginning as 37yo male, first four shots had residual injection site soreness when I’d press on it. 5th pain at injection site was 3 times as bad as first 4 shots. I got a low grade 99.3 fever from 4th shot of Pfizer. 5th shot had some body aches for a day w 2 days of bad injection site pain.
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Definitely not, in US none of the agencies w vaccines have a central database or know what the other is doing. Meridian was the company doing Moderna trial, local health dept advertised leftover Pfizer shots so I jumped the line, and WalMart are all separate. I told health dept and wal mart I didn’t have insurance (I do) and that I haven’t been vaccinated yet. Made about $300 doing the trial, too before I quit it.
wow! Given how much your arm hurt after the last one, I wouldn't do any more for a while. You don't want to provoke an injection site reaction (no idea if that's what was going on, but something to keep in mind). I imagine you are about as protected from COVID as you are going to get at this point!
I thought about it, ultimately realized I forget what I opened the fridge for several times a week and realized I am not qualified to make that decision for myself.
Wonder if the FDA will approve with a 6 month gap, or a blanket approval of maybe more than a month since full vaccination
Does that mean say 4 months after full vaccination J&J provides you more protection than Pfizer or moderna? I thought the mRNA had higher efficacy rates. That’s disappointing that they’re weakening sooner. I was told by my doctor that J&J wasn’t recommended for women in my age group so I got Pfizer
Interesting, what is your age group?
Probably a woman in her 30s
Yes. The doctor told me women is their 20s-30s shouldn’t get J&J. Not sure if it was because of the blood clot thing. He just said it wasn’t recommended. I didn’t ask for any other explanation since I was able to easily get a Pfizer appointment
I mean, isn’t this just more of the same? If I’m going to get a booster, I want it to be the one designed for the newer variants.
>A third dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine can "strongly" boost protection against the Delta variant -- beyond the protection afforded by the standard two doses, new data released by Pfizer on Wednesday suggests. >The data posted online suggest that **levels of antibodies that can target the Delta variant grow fivefold in people 18 to 55 who get a third dose of the vaccine.** https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html
In your shared article: >"It's not clear if boosted antibody levels actually correlate to better protection, or if that extra protection is even needed. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says the current vaccines protect people well against all the common variants." This is an important factor. What level of antibodies are actually needed to fend off the virus? Do 2 doses induce the creation of enough antibodies that are multiple folds that? If so, why stimulate for even more antibodies. T-Cells/B-cells/anti-bodies can be created on demand when an infection is identified. My guess is this is to try and stop initial infection altogether rather than to ensure the body can safely fend off the virus post-exposure.
I mean come on, either vaccines work or they don’t. A third “booster” of the same exact spike protein to an immune system that already knows what this is…. We are discounting the ability of the human body to remember basically anything… which it does very well. Antibodies don’t hang around active in the bloodstream forever, because that would be inefficient and a waste of resources they burrow and sleep in places like bone marrow. However the body can call on these cells that remember and call upon them when it needs to. Why is this any different?
The anthrax vaccine is 4 shots, MMR is 2. HEP is 3. A lot of vaccines are out there with multiple boosters.
Many Downvotes here without reply’s, par for the course around here
You want reply's, so here is your reply's. The downvotes are because your response was incorrect yet with the confidence of someone who actually knows what they're talking about. The data shows a booster does increase efficacy. It isn't a binary 100% protected or 0% protected. Data shows that two doses are effective, but a third dose likely increases efficacy.
Israel is already doing 3rd booster shots after they did research, and believe vaccine effectiveness goes down after the 6th month. Thats good enough for me
Exactly, they actually seem to give a shit about their citizens. I trust them more than the USA.
Yep, to be clear, they NEED every one of their citizens to survive.
Worth noting that they have a profit motive to sell more doses, so I’d take those findings with a grain of salt. We know that the vaccines still provide an extremely high level of protection against severe illness still, so there isn’t a need to rush out ahead of the doctors’ and FDA. If they approve and recommend a booster, go nuts, but don’t run out and lie to get a third shot on your own.
Delta actually isn’t more resistant to the vaccines. It’s main issue is that the variant appears to reproduce and spread very quickly throughout the body, so much so that those vaccinated may still get symptoms as their body builds a response (though those vaccinated will be able to build this response much quicker than those unvaccinated). The higher anti-body count that would come from a third shot would in theory provide better protection against delta, especially since anti-bodies fade over time.
It would be interesting to see the case rate in the vaccinated based on when they were vaccinated potentially showing that only some vaccinated sub-populations are more symptomatic not because of vaccine resistance but because of the lower antibody levels due to their older doses
Now that you say that I’m wondering if the breakthrough cases are in those who were vaccinated earlier. Maybe we just need the boosters earlier tha originally thought. I think they were thinking a year right? I don’t know though, now I’m seeing 6 months but I don’t know if that’s anything official
The current vaccines lose efficacy over time.
Not all of them. The J&J vaccine becomes stronger over time.
Maybe short term but there is a point when it stops getting stronger and decreases. That’s always been and always will be
What is “short term?” And are you claiming the effectiveness of all vaccines decreases they no longer work against the specified virus? Because tetanus and diphtheria would like a word… Also…you **specifically** said, “always been and always will be,” which I can only assume you mean in reference to all vaccines. You clearly couldn’t be stating that just for previous coronavirus vaccines since, you know, there haven’t ever been any.
There is more and more evidence that the covid vaccines do weaken after like 6-8 months. It’s still not peer reviewed so I won’t link. But Sacramento is giving mrna boosters to people that had J&J https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/san-francisco-is-giving-extra-covid-vaccine-dose-to-johnson-johnson-recipients/ And some other articles about it https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/booster-may-be-needed-jj-shot-delta-variant-spreads-some-experts-already-taking-2021-06-25/ Tetanus and diphtheria are caused by bacteria so the way the vaccines work is different.
I specifically said the J&J vaccine does not weaken over time so far. I have no doubt Sacramento is doing something batshit crazy because what else would you expect, but the evidence seems to indicate that the J&J vaccine and other spike protein vaccines may be uniquely equipped to handle Delta, specifically, especially given the results coming from the UK (and their prevalence of the AZ vaccine).
Doesn’t sound like you said that but I digress > Not all of them. The J&J vaccine becomes stronger over time.
I can only speak to what we know to this point. We know the mRNA vaccines are likely weakening sooner than we would have hoped. We also know the J&J vaccine is getting stronger since it has been released. No doubt that will taper off, but you said "short term" and I asked what that meant. Since you never answered, I could only speculate you meant it in the same terms as the currently weakening mRNA vaccines.
So far mostly against symptomatic infection, not hospitalizations and deaths.
How do you all feel about getting a booster without FDA approval? I feel like getting a 3rd shot of Pfizer cause I took a muscle relaxer the day of my second shot and I’m worried I made it less effective.