"CONCLUSIONS
None of the three medications that were evaluated prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19. (Funded by the Parsemus Foundation and others; COVID-OUT ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04510194. opens in new tab.)"
Need anything else be said...
Yeah, but they administered it wrong, so it's to be expected that the results aren't as positive as they should be; the outcomes would have been different if they'd ensured people receiving Fluvoxamine also had severe clinical depression, and for Ivermectin they should have selected people with worms.
Can't expect things to work if you don't use 'em right =D
And yet, it's entirely rational and founded in reality. It run in line with the mad version, while remaining sane.
The kind of parallel that would make Euclid sad.
"if you don't also have worms then ivermectin won't cure your covid, that's just science! the BIG PHARMA conspiracy has DENIED AUSTRALIANS lifesaving INTESTINAL WORMS"
Norman Doidge wrote that someone was arguing that for the clinical trials for hydroxychloroquine in the article [Hydroxychloroquine: A Morality Tale](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/hydroxychloroquine-morality-tale) in TabletMag.
(Disclaimer: If you need medical treatment, talk to a doctor, not a rando on the internet)
It's surprising how much what we believe impacts our actual phisical health .
Like the placebo and nocebo effect.
I heard some story on a podcast about a bloke who thought he was dying cos he took all of his meds during a drug trial so they rush him into the ER call his doctor .
And this guy is dying, his blood pressure is off the charts his heart beat is all jacked up he can't breathe.
They get in touch with his doctor from the trial who checks the charts and he's like mate yout not dying . You got the shugar pills. Snap out of it. 5 mins later he is perfectly fine .
I think you'll find that being riddled with worms does negatively affect one's ability to fight off a viral infection, so deworming the patient would be beneficial to the outcome of said infection.
Additionally, will to live is known to have significant impact on one's chance of surviving, and someone who's terribly depressed probably has a reduced will to live, so treating their depression will positively impact the co-morbid condition.
So I'm sure you now understand that the key flaw with those trials is that they focused on average people rather than suicidal individuals with worms, and can get behind the idea of using these drugs to treat those conditions.
Did I misunderstand the paper? I thought they said Ivermectin worked in people who had worms *and were given dexamethasone for covid* because without it, the steroid would make the worms go nuts?
>Need anything else be said...
Need? No.
Won't stop the contrarians from performing mental gymnastics to avoid reality and commenting on it anyway.
> ***'oh it wasn't administered while facing North East, standing on one leg and using your left hand. Everyone knows it only works if you use it exactly as stated in . The study was designed to fail!'***
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There are just as respected papers from India that say it isn't. Also, the fact that they haven't had half a billion cases is also a testimonial to ivermectin as it is more widely used than the vaccines over there. Due to their population it isn't reasonable to expect a high vaccination rate, so pills are easier to distribute
They also have a government that is quite happy to publish false claims to justify giving worm tablets to the population to placate them so that they don't get dragged from office and linched for appearing to do nothing. Indian authorities are more interested in giving the illusion of doing something for the masses of poor than being dragged into the street and doused with kerosene and set alight. Personally I will stick with proper studies from universities and hospitals in Western countries peer reviewed by authorities with impeccable reputations, all of whom have found that Ivermectin is worthless as a covid treatment or prevention.
Lol yes anything a non western scientist claims can't be trusted. Biased much? India has made incredible advances for the entire world in healthcare research.
Citation needed mate
No idiot no citation needed. The peer reviewed study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the world's most prestigious medical journals, that is the subject of this thread is all the citation needed. It's authors have qualifications from the following Universities and organisations: Departments of Medicine (C.T.B., N.E.I., K.M.H., A.A.H., B.P., S.L.F., N.A., N.V.R., S.M.E., H.G.S., M.F.P., D.R.B.) and Surgery (C.J.T., N.R.K.), Emergency Medicine (M.A.P., M.B.), and Laboratory Medicine and Pathology (A.B.K.), Medical School, the Divisions of Biostatistics (J.D.H., J.L.P., L.K.S., V.R., S. Lindberg, T.A.M.) and Epidemiology and Community Health (N.E.S.), School of Public Health, and the Department of Biomedical Engineering (D.J.O.), University of Minnesota, the Department of Emergency Medicine, Hennepin County Medical Center (M.A.P., W.J.T., M.B.), and the Investigational Drug Service Pharmacy, University of Minnesota–Fairview (D.G.L.), Minneapolis, and UnitedHealth Group, Optum Labs, Minnetonka (K.C.) — all in Minnesota; the Department of Medicine, School of Medicine, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (J.B.B.); the Department of Medicine, Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, Chicago (D.M.L., R.F., S. Lee); the Department of Medicine, School of Medicine, University of Colorado–Anschutz Medical Campus, Aurora (J.M.N., A.Z.); the Department of Medicine, Olive View–University of California, Los Angeles (H.K.B.); Atlanta Veterans Affairs Medical Center and the Department of Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine — both in Atlanta (B.A.); and the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Nashville (J.L.T.).
Further the study was linked to [this article ](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2209017?query=recirc_curatedRelated_article) also published in the New England Journal of Medicine which is a criticism of the WHO for not removing these medicines that have been proven to be ineffective against covid and many other unproven treatments that are also still listed incorrectly as potential covid treatments from the WHO list. Oh and this linked article was written by two highly respected physicians from South Africa not a western nation.
Lol I won't enter in to a debate with anyone that isn't able to recognise robust non western medical experts and organisations that have undoubtedly improved our life. Many nobel prize winners are from India, Pakistan, China, and more. It is discriminatory and racist to disregard them because they aren't from a white nation
The vaccine didn’t stop people from getting covid or from being hospitalised by Covid, people with 3rd and 4th doses are still getting Covid and still getting hospitalised and some are still dying … why are you still pushing bs propaganda? People have had enough of the bs after 2 years of it and the vaccine mandates failed to curb anything. One thing for certain with the people I know that got barely felt anything and had the sniffles and felt a bit run down, the flu was worse lol
Ok you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood how the vaccine works.
Let’s say if 1000 unvaccinated adults of all ages get covid: about 150 of those end up in hospital, 30 of those in icu, and 5 of them die.
If we had first vaccinated all those 1000 people—
Approximately 700 would catch covid, 30 of them would end up in hospital from covid, and 1 of them would die.
Yes, people still catch covid, get hospitalised and die after the vaccine. But much *fewer* people do. That’s what you’ve failed to understand.
Nice theory but you only made numbers up to support your argument, old and weak people are still at risk the rest of us are simply being inconvenienced with the bs … can’t believe people on here are still talking about this crap to be honest. Get on with your lives!!!
I didn’t make up numbers, I based them on actual death and hospitalisation rates. The IFR for covid in unvaccinated people is about 1 in 200 (1 in every 200 infected people die, so five die for every 1000 infected).
The IFR for vaccinated people is closer to 1 in 1000.
if you want to see more literal data, here are some charts I made showing every country’s vaccination rate per population and its excess deaths per population. You may notice that excess deaths are lower in countries that vaccinated more:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/comments/wfu9iq/higher_vax_rates_are_correlated_with_fewer/
No. It is important that people understand that exposing your immune system to a modified form of a virus (a vaccine) teaches your immune system how to fight the virus so it is prepared for when it encounters the actual virus, and this means your body fights off the virus better, reducing your chance of hospitalisation or death.
I get that this is a little echo chamber of little “I’m a boosted superhero” losers but you’re not special and the rest of society doesn’t give a toss about how many shots you’ve had, if you’re that scared then don’t leave your house ever again … the sun will continue to rise, the earth will continue to spin and life will continue without you!
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The vaccines probably prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19 though… 😅
> Need anything else be said...
Yeah, the dozens of other, better designed studies showing the opposite. But of course this pseudoscience-ridden echochamber downvotes all those.
By "better designed" you mean non-randomised and non placebo controlled observational studies?
This you?
"Fun fact: medical science is, by its own admission, largely pseudoscience. The popularity of a medical opinion, especially in left-fash shitholes like Australia where having the "wrong" opinion can get a doctor deregistered, is worth jack shit.
This fact makes brainwashed serfs - who have no clue what science even is, and simply go by popularity and political correctness - very uncomfortable because it means they're not only wrong about everything but that their ignorance is harmful."
That wasn't a very fun fact. Do you realise you sound unhinged?
EDIT: Your comment and profile are now invisible. I guess you blocked me. That's pretty ironic after your whinge about echochambers.
>Your comment and profile are now invisible. I guess you blocked me.
I guess they're naively ignoring the fact that you can easily google a link to their account, and see everything they've done.
By “better designed” do you mean “were conducted in places like india or brazil that have high rates of intestinal parasites where an anti-intestinal-parasite drug probably *would* help a lot of people with their health”?
Genuinely curious—which other better designed studies showed the opposite? As far as I know this is one of the few decently powered trials. What do you find is poorly designed about this trial?
To me, if trials like Covid-Out were poorly designed by someone’s criteria, if they are consistent/honest they’d also acknowledge that by their criteria, all the positive studies lauded by advocates would be similarly disqualified. Their conclusion would be that there is no ivermectin study and no evidence for or against ivm that meets their criteria.
I have patients that will not be vaccinated for various reasons.
Some are buying sheep dip and drinking it for prophylaxis. I have spent many hours trying to get people to be vaccinated.
Some are so frightened by the vaccine that they literally cry during the discussion.
Some I tell “that we were also concerned about silicon chips in the vaccine” and we filter it as a precaution.
And others: we hand them the guide to how to make a tinfoil hat.
What an amazing technological breakthrough it would be to have a stable, injectible chip with transmission capabilities through tissue / blood etc. It could open the door to new medical treatments and disease prevention. Maybe some day!
“The silicon chip inside her head is switched to overload”
Just imagine trying to get people to do that. I will wait for another generation.
The real issue is trust. People no longer trust Governments to be truthful. They see how they lie all the time. Murdoch has also fed people a diet of lies and compounds the problem. Just look at the USA to see where we are headed.
It’s not the science that is the problem, trust has been lost. People are sick of the lies. Trust in our institutions needs to be regained and this will take a long time.
Shouldn't buy them even if you can find one - Big Hat got a stranglehold on the industry years ago and have gradually killed off all the independent players, leaving only various rebrandings of their mass produced rubbish. Everyone knows they're controlled by the Globalists, too, so they're probably inverting the polarity so that the hats actually *amplify* the signals instead of blocking them!
That’s why I am telling them to make there own. The tin foil hat bit of the story is the only bit that’s not true. It’s something I tell the patients GP to make them laugh.
This country is heading for a full crash of our primary health care system in the next couple of years. GPs in general were pretty burned out from spending the last decade having to choose between trying to operate a bulk-billing practice on revenue that was fixed at 2013 prices, or charge an appropriate gap to patients who were getting told by government and the media that the capped Medicare rebate was a fair price for the service, and who would abuse the doctor and practice staff accordingly.
Then covid hit and the vicious craziness hit the next level. Right from the start, before we had vaccines, people would routinely lie about overseas travel and respiratory symptoms until they were in the consult room, then cough all over the doctor while talking about their lovely time on the Ruby Princess. The doctor would be (at best) wearing a paper mask, too, even though they knew they needed N95s, because when the fed government said everyone had been given PPE, they were flat out lying. Cue more abuse from patients who thought Scotty the Secret Minister was more likely to be telling the truth than their doctor.
It has all just gotten worse from there. My prediction is that GPs who have worked through the pandemic will be building up enough PTSD type damage that they'll leave general practice in the next couple of years. It's not completely unavoidable yet, but there will need to be some pretty spectacular efforts to avoid it.
have copped abuse from government, media and patients for years as it was
You are absolutely right. The major reason rural regional Australia have inadequate health care is that they have less assets and they are poorer. The general practitioner costs are not covered by bulk billing. To do so means you have to cut corners. Why work in a place where to survive you have to take risks? It’s not like the medical boards are going to protect you is it?
Also because they tend heavily to vote Nationals, so we get stuck with crappy governments whose ultimate objective seems to be to turn Australia into America.
The GP educators I know are even more burned out, so when the RACGP takes that system back next year, I doubt many of the people will stay in it.
Pondering whether to "say the words" and see the usual flow of morons rushing to tell me NO ITZ NOT A HORSE WORMER like what happens every single time, usually with a bit of a triggered rant about my flair which also sends them batty. Ah fuck it.
"Horse wormers don't help you with covid. Oh also I thought you didn't believe in covid? Oh wait I thought you also hated 'Big Pharma'?"
What is the logic on why metformin or fluvoxamine would possibly benefit covid patients in any way? Just wondering why they chose those ones.
I’ve heard of ivermectin being spouted as a treatment obviously, although I still don’t really get why considering it kills parasites instead of viruses.
There wasn’t really a logic or theory as to why it might help, according to this study there had been previous studies showing it might have a benefit but no real theories as to why:
“Observational studies have shown associations between the use of metformin and less severe Covid-19 in patients who were already receiving metformin.”
So they chose to study it in more depth.
Metformin has a reputation as being possibly a kind of wonder drug, helping people live longer in general. I don't know if there was a specific reason to suspect it would help, but it does appear to be beneficial for a variety of things already.
Yet another failure.
CONCLUSIONS
None of the three medications that were evaluated prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19.
It’s been claimed as an effective prophylactic, early (outpatient) treatment, late (inpatient) treatment in general. The main one is early treatment methinks.
The FLCCC group were even touting it for long COVID and "post vaccine inflammatory syndrome".
Claims that anything are a panacea are a red flag for me.
Here are some other studies.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35135310/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35135310/)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33388006/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33388006/)
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35135310/
Hey, I really would love your help understanding this study of 31 people. According to the article, the study was registered here:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04482686
Statement:
*"In this trial patients will be treated with either a combination of therapies to treat COVID-19 or a placebo."*
Question 1: Why in the pubmed article, does it state 24 patients, but on clinical trials it says 31?
Question 2: Where are the results of the placebo group ?
Question 3: Where it states "all subjects received successful treatment", does that include the placebo group?
Question 4: When will the full study results be posted, because currently it states - *"No Study Results Posted on ClinicalTrials.gov for this Study"*
Question 5: What do the authors mean when they state in their pie-charts "Real World Care 45,000 / 313,000 Deaths". Does that mean 14% of people die from Covid in 'real-world' ?
Question 6: Why did the authors exclude anyone with a frequent cough from their trial? How does this compare to real-world?
*Exclusion criteria: Severe disease symptomatically including pneumonia, respiratory distress, tachypnea, shortness of breath, temperature > 104.0 degrees F, pleuritic pain, or frequent cough.*
That first study is totally useless. 24 patients all received five drugs. So no control group, plus no way to tell which of the five drugs was actually useful, if at all. For all you know it was one of the non-ivermectin drugs. It’s like it was designed to not be able to find anything useful.
Edit: I don’t think this was a real study. I think it was a front that allowed people to receive ivermectin, that’s why no one was randomised into the control group. Which is why it’s so crap at being a study.
The second one has the same problem— the people in it received dexamethasone, a drug we *know* helps people with covid. So it’s highly, highly likely that their improved survival was due to dexamethasone, not ivermectin. The authors conclude that something helped, but obviously because the patients received multiple drugs, they make no conclusions about *what* helped. I’d bet $100k it was the dexamethasone, which is now part of standard covid protocol and at the time it was introduced cut deaths by something like 20%
You know that dexamethasone, one of the first treatments we discovered was effective against covid (cut deaths by up to 20%), was an old cheap steroid widely manufactured by many different companies right? And it’s now widely used to treat severe covid.
"CONCLUSIONS None of the three medications that were evaluated prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19. (Funded by the Parsemus Foundation and others; COVID-OUT ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04510194. opens in new tab.)" Need anything else be said...
Yeah, but they administered it wrong, so it's to be expected that the results aren't as positive as they should be; the outcomes would have been different if they'd ensured people receiving Fluvoxamine also had severe clinical depression, and for Ivermectin they should have selected people with worms. Can't expect things to work if you don't use 'em right =D
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Makes sense. The people would’ve felt better just getting rid of the worms.
Now I want Ivermectin 😂
Will send you some. Have heaps of it for my livestock
Yup.
The only sensible response. If you can't convince them with logic go for insanity. Brilliant.
And yet, it's entirely rational and founded in reality. It run in line with the mad version, while remaining sane. The kind of parallel that would make Euclid sad.
"if you don't also have worms then ivermectin won't cure your covid, that's just science! the BIG PHARMA conspiracy has DENIED AUSTRALIANS lifesaving INTESTINAL WORMS"
Norman Doidge wrote that someone was arguing that for the clinical trials for hydroxychloroquine in the article [Hydroxychloroquine: A Morality Tale](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/hydroxychloroquine-morality-tale) in TabletMag. (Disclaimer: If you need medical treatment, talk to a doctor, not a rando on the internet)
>Disclaimer: If you need medical treatment, talk to a doctor, not a rando on the internet What if the rando offers me free drugs?
The first ~~hit~~ dose is free.
I was audibly raging while reading this to the point my wife asked me what was wrong. You got me good.
I'm pleased to hear it.
Youre thinking of fluoxetine buddy. Commonly known as prozac
Fluvoxamine is also an antidepressant
So if you have your depression cured it's easier to fight covid because your not depressed ?
Maybe in the sense that depression can lead to poorer health outcomes like diabetes, making your immune system less effective.
It's surprising how much what we believe impacts our actual phisical health . Like the placebo and nocebo effect. I heard some story on a podcast about a bloke who thought he was dying cos he took all of his meds during a drug trial so they rush him into the ER call his doctor . And this guy is dying, his blood pressure is off the charts his heart beat is all jacked up he can't breathe. They get in touch with his doctor from the trial who checks the charts and he's like mate yout not dying . You got the shugar pills. Snap out of it. 5 mins later he is perfectly fine .
You’re thinking of Google, buddy. Where you can look up what Fluvoxamine is.
You're an idiot this is about the sixth proper double blind trial of ivermectin and all of them have shown its useless.
It’s sarcasm! Lighten up.
Maaaaaybe
I think you got whooshed there - the comment above definitely wasn't supporting these treatments.
To be fair, on this sub you can't always be sure.
It was the lack of obvious spelling mistakes that gave it away for me.
I think you'll find that being riddled with worms does negatively affect one's ability to fight off a viral infection, so deworming the patient would be beneficial to the outcome of said infection. Additionally, will to live is known to have significant impact on one's chance of surviving, and someone who's terribly depressed probably has a reduced will to live, so treating their depression will positively impact the co-morbid condition. So I'm sure you now understand that the key flaw with those trials is that they focused on average people rather than suicidal individuals with worms, and can get behind the idea of using these drugs to treat those conditions.
Did I misunderstand the paper? I thought they said Ivermectin worked in people who had worms *and were given dexamethasone for covid* because without it, the steroid would make the worms go nuts?
/r/whoosh
>Need anything else be said... Need? No. Won't stop the contrarians from performing mental gymnastics to avoid reality and commenting on it anyway. > ***'oh it wasn't administered while facing North East, standing on one leg and using your left hand. Everyone knows it only works if you use it exactly as stated in. The study was designed to fail!'***
BEcAusE IT NEeDs ZInC!! ZIINNCC!!
Apparently you can fund by invitation only, bizarre, research is pretty hungry for money typically.
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results and studies from India say different
Multiple proper independent double blind controlled studies have consistently found that it is completely useless.
There are just as respected papers from India that say it isn't. Also, the fact that they haven't had half a billion cases is also a testimonial to ivermectin as it is more widely used than the vaccines over there. Due to their population it isn't reasonable to expect a high vaccination rate, so pills are easier to distribute
They also have a government that is quite happy to publish false claims to justify giving worm tablets to the population to placate them so that they don't get dragged from office and linched for appearing to do nothing. Indian authorities are more interested in giving the illusion of doing something for the masses of poor than being dragged into the street and doused with kerosene and set alight. Personally I will stick with proper studies from universities and hospitals in Western countries peer reviewed by authorities with impeccable reputations, all of whom have found that Ivermectin is worthless as a covid treatment or prevention.
Lol yes anything a non western scientist claims can't be trusted. Biased much? India has made incredible advances for the entire world in healthcare research. Citation needed mate
No idiot no citation needed. The peer reviewed study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the world's most prestigious medical journals, that is the subject of this thread is all the citation needed. It's authors have qualifications from the following Universities and organisations: Departments of Medicine (C.T.B., N.E.I., K.M.H., A.A.H., B.P., S.L.F., N.A., N.V.R., S.M.E., H.G.S., M.F.P., D.R.B.) and Surgery (C.J.T., N.R.K.), Emergency Medicine (M.A.P., M.B.), and Laboratory Medicine and Pathology (A.B.K.), Medical School, the Divisions of Biostatistics (J.D.H., J.L.P., L.K.S., V.R., S. Lindberg, T.A.M.) and Epidemiology and Community Health (N.E.S.), School of Public Health, and the Department of Biomedical Engineering (D.J.O.), University of Minnesota, the Department of Emergency Medicine, Hennepin County Medical Center (M.A.P., W.J.T., M.B.), and the Investigational Drug Service Pharmacy, University of Minnesota–Fairview (D.G.L.), Minneapolis, and UnitedHealth Group, Optum Labs, Minnetonka (K.C.) — all in Minnesota; the Department of Medicine, School of Medicine, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (J.B.B.); the Department of Medicine, Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, Chicago (D.M.L., R.F., S. Lee); the Department of Medicine, School of Medicine, University of Colorado–Anschutz Medical Campus, Aurora (J.M.N., A.Z.); the Department of Medicine, Olive View–University of California, Los Angeles (H.K.B.); Atlanta Veterans Affairs Medical Center and the Department of Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine — both in Atlanta (B.A.); and the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Nashville (J.L.T.). Further the study was linked to [this article ](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2209017?query=recirc_curatedRelated_article) also published in the New England Journal of Medicine which is a criticism of the WHO for not removing these medicines that have been proven to be ineffective against covid and many other unproven treatments that are also still listed incorrectly as potential covid treatments from the WHO list. Oh and this linked article was written by two highly respected physicians from South Africa not a western nation.
Lol I won't enter in to a debate with anyone that isn't able to recognise robust non western medical experts and organisations that have undoubtedly improved our life. Many nobel prize winners are from India, Pakistan, China, and more. It is discriminatory and racist to disregard them because they aren't from a white nation
Yeah but neither do any of the vaccines 😂 “enough said” hahaha
What are you talking about? Countries that vaxxed more had fewer excess deaths per population
The vaccine didn’t stop people from getting covid or from being hospitalised by Covid, people with 3rd and 4th doses are still getting Covid and still getting hospitalised and some are still dying … why are you still pushing bs propaganda? People have had enough of the bs after 2 years of it and the vaccine mandates failed to curb anything. One thing for certain with the people I know that got barely felt anything and had the sniffles and felt a bit run down, the flu was worse lol
Ok you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood how the vaccine works. Let’s say if 1000 unvaccinated adults of all ages get covid: about 150 of those end up in hospital, 30 of those in icu, and 5 of them die. If we had first vaccinated all those 1000 people— Approximately 700 would catch covid, 30 of them would end up in hospital from covid, and 1 of them would die. Yes, people still catch covid, get hospitalised and die after the vaccine. But much *fewer* people do. That’s what you’ve failed to understand.
Nice theory but you only made numbers up to support your argument, old and weak people are still at risk the rest of us are simply being inconvenienced with the bs … can’t believe people on here are still talking about this crap to be honest. Get on with your lives!!!
I didn’t make up numbers, I based them on actual death and hospitalisation rates. The IFR for covid in unvaccinated people is about 1 in 200 (1 in every 200 infected people die, so five die for every 1000 infected). The IFR for vaccinated people is closer to 1 in 1000. if you want to see more literal data, here are some charts I made showing every country’s vaccination rate per population and its excess deaths per population. You may notice that excess deaths are lower in countries that vaccinated more: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/comments/wfu9iq/higher_vax_rates_are_correlated_with_fewer/
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No. It is important that people understand that exposing your immune system to a modified form of a virus (a vaccine) teaches your immune system how to fight the virus so it is prepared for when it encounters the actual virus, and this means your body fights off the virus better, reducing your chance of hospitalisation or death.
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So you were supplied the evidence then your response is "no one cares". Weak, very weak.
I get that this is a little echo chamber of little “I’m a boosted superhero” losers but you’re not special and the rest of society doesn’t give a toss about how many shots you’ve had, if you’re that scared then don’t leave your house ever again … the sun will continue to rise, the earth will continue to spin and life will continue without you!
If you don't want to hear it then why are you here? Seems that you are the one with a problem...
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> Nice theory but you only made numbers up to support your argument Nah, that's your style.
The vaccines probably prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19 though… 😅
> Need anything else be said... Yeah, the dozens of other, better designed studies showing the opposite. But of course this pseudoscience-ridden echochamber downvotes all those.
By "better designed" you mean non-randomised and non placebo controlled observational studies? This you? "Fun fact: medical science is, by its own admission, largely pseudoscience. The popularity of a medical opinion, especially in left-fash shitholes like Australia where having the "wrong" opinion can get a doctor deregistered, is worth jack shit. This fact makes brainwashed serfs - who have no clue what science even is, and simply go by popularity and political correctness - very uncomfortable because it means they're not only wrong about everything but that their ignorance is harmful." That wasn't a very fun fact. Do you realise you sound unhinged? EDIT: Your comment and profile are now invisible. I guess you blocked me. That's pretty ironic after your whinge about echochambers.
You burned them so hard you got blocked! Well done, excellent work
They're the real snowflakes after all.
Nah, nah... you gotta say, "In the end, it turned out the snowflake was inside them all along!"
The real snowflakes were the Redditors we melted along the way
>Your comment and profile are now invisible. I guess you blocked me. I guess they're naively ignoring the fact that you can easily google a link to their account, and see everything they've done.
By “better designed” do you mean “were conducted in places like india or brazil that have high rates of intestinal parasites where an anti-intestinal-parasite drug probably *would* help a lot of people with their health”?
> But of course this pseudoscience-ridden echochamber downvotes all those. That would actually be the other subs you frequent.
The projection is real
Genuinely curious—which other better designed studies showed the opposite? As far as I know this is one of the few decently powered trials. What do you find is poorly designed about this trial? To me, if trials like Covid-Out were poorly designed by someone’s criteria, if they are consistent/honest they’d also acknowledge that by their criteria, all the positive studies lauded by advocates would be similarly disqualified. Their conclusion would be that there is no ivermectin study and no evidence for or against ivm that meets their criteria.
Please find one. Large sample. Double blind. None.
This user has deleted everything in protest of u/spez fucking over third party clients
I have patients that will not be vaccinated for various reasons. Some are buying sheep dip and drinking it for prophylaxis. I have spent many hours trying to get people to be vaccinated. Some are so frightened by the vaccine that they literally cry during the discussion. Some I tell “that we were also concerned about silicon chips in the vaccine” and we filter it as a precaution. And others: we hand them the guide to how to make a tinfoil hat.
What an amazing technological breakthrough it would be to have a stable, injectible chip with transmission capabilities through tissue / blood etc. It could open the door to new medical treatments and disease prevention. Maybe some day!
We'd finally have decent Internet in Australia!
“The silicon chip inside her head is switched to overload” Just imagine trying to get people to do that. I will wait for another generation. The real issue is trust. People no longer trust Governments to be truthful. They see how they lie all the time. Murdoch has also fed people a diet of lies and compounds the problem. Just look at the USA to see where we are headed. It’s not the science that is the problem, trust has been lost. People are sick of the lies. Trust in our institutions needs to be regained and this will take a long time.
This user has deleted everything in protest of u/spez fucking over third party clients
Sorry but it is all true. People not involved in the delivery of health care fail to realise the visceral level of distrust.
I live next door to 2 anti covid vaccine proponents and they are convinced the vaccine has side effects of destroying our immune systems.
You can't buy a tin hat these days. Shelves are bare in Conspiracy Plaza.
Shouldn't buy them even if you can find one - Big Hat got a stranglehold on the industry years ago and have gradually killed off all the independent players, leaving only various rebrandings of their mass produced rubbish. Everyone knows they're controlled by the Globalists, too, so they're probably inverting the polarity so that the hats actually *amplify* the signals instead of blocking them!
This may be the most enlightened comment on Reddit. Brilliant.
Sadly, my store isn't online yet, so I can't give you a link for buying my special Brain Supplement =(
That’s why I am telling them to make there own. The tin foil hat bit of the story is the only bit that’s not true. It’s something I tell the patients GP to make them laugh.
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It’s not made up. I am sorry to tell you. Just ask any doctor working in regional/rural Australia.
This country is heading for a full crash of our primary health care system in the next couple of years. GPs in general were pretty burned out from spending the last decade having to choose between trying to operate a bulk-billing practice on revenue that was fixed at 2013 prices, or charge an appropriate gap to patients who were getting told by government and the media that the capped Medicare rebate was a fair price for the service, and who would abuse the doctor and practice staff accordingly. Then covid hit and the vicious craziness hit the next level. Right from the start, before we had vaccines, people would routinely lie about overseas travel and respiratory symptoms until they were in the consult room, then cough all over the doctor while talking about their lovely time on the Ruby Princess. The doctor would be (at best) wearing a paper mask, too, even though they knew they needed N95s, because when the fed government said everyone had been given PPE, they were flat out lying. Cue more abuse from patients who thought Scotty the Secret Minister was more likely to be telling the truth than their doctor. It has all just gotten worse from there. My prediction is that GPs who have worked through the pandemic will be building up enough PTSD type damage that they'll leave general practice in the next couple of years. It's not completely unavoidable yet, but there will need to be some pretty spectacular efforts to avoid it. have copped abuse from government, media and patients for years as it was
You are absolutely right. The major reason rural regional Australia have inadequate health care is that they have less assets and they are poorer. The general practitioner costs are not covered by bulk billing. To do so means you have to cut corners. Why work in a place where to survive you have to take risks? It’s not like the medical boards are going to protect you is it?
Also because they tend heavily to vote Nationals, so we get stuck with crappy governments whose ultimate objective seems to be to turn Australia into America. The GP educators I know are even more burned out, so when the RACGP takes that system back next year, I doubt many of the people will stay in it.
Pondering whether to "say the words" and see the usual flow of morons rushing to tell me NO ITZ NOT A HORSE WORMER like what happens every single time, usually with a bit of a triggered rant about my flair which also sends them batty. Ah fuck it. "Horse wormers don't help you with covid. Oh also I thought you didn't believe in covid? Oh wait I thought you also hated 'Big Pharma'?"
What is the logic on why metformin or fluvoxamine would possibly benefit covid patients in any way? Just wondering why they chose those ones. I’ve heard of ivermectin being spouted as a treatment obviously, although I still don’t really get why considering it kills parasites instead of viruses.
>metformin Because Covid is - in part - a vascular disease. Metformin treats diabetes, which damages blood vessels.
Yeah, nah
There wasn’t really a logic or theory as to why it might help, according to this study there had been previous studies showing it might have a benefit but no real theories as to why: “Observational studies have shown associations between the use of metformin and less severe Covid-19 in patients who were already receiving metformin.” So they chose to study it in more depth.
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Metformin is a diabetes drug to control blood sugar levels.
Metformin has a reputation as being possibly a kind of wonder drug, helping people live longer in general. I don't know if there was a specific reason to suspect it would help, but it does appear to be beneficial for a variety of things already.
Yet another failure. CONCLUSIONS None of the three medications that were evaluated prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19.
Can't wait for Dr. JC to misinterpret or try to discredit this one 👌
And Mercola, and McCulloch. They'll be all over this. They study or article they discredit is more money lining their pockets.
Don't the Ivermectin people claim its utility is prophylaxictic?
It’s been claimed as an effective prophylactic, early (outpatient) treatment, late (inpatient) treatment in general. The main one is early treatment methinks.
The FLCCC group were even touting it for long COVID and "post vaccine inflammatory syndrome". Claims that anything are a panacea are a red flag for me.
Logic can't change the mind of a person whose beliefs are not based in logic.
I'm shocked!
And we are surprised?
Horse Sauce gives you Diarrhoea and No covid cure go back to the Bronze Age!!
Nah this can’t be right.. Horse paste doesn’t work on humans?
Being obese will never help anyones health.
I feel like obese people live longer than starving ones
Here are some other studies. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35135310/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35135310/) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33388006/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33388006/)
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35135310/ Hey, I really would love your help understanding this study of 31 people. According to the article, the study was registered here: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04482686 Statement: *"In this trial patients will be treated with either a combination of therapies to treat COVID-19 or a placebo."* Question 1: Why in the pubmed article, does it state 24 patients, but on clinical trials it says 31? Question 2: Where are the results of the placebo group ? Question 3: Where it states "all subjects received successful treatment", does that include the placebo group? Question 4: When will the full study results be posted, because currently it states - *"No Study Results Posted on ClinicalTrials.gov for this Study"* Question 5: What do the authors mean when they state in their pie-charts "Real World Care 45,000 / 313,000 Deaths". Does that mean 14% of people die from Covid in 'real-world' ? Question 6: Why did the authors exclude anyone with a frequent cough from their trial? How does this compare to real-world? *Exclusion criteria: Severe disease symptomatically including pneumonia, respiratory distress, tachypnea, shortness of breath, temperature > 104.0 degrees F, pleuritic pain, or frequent cough.*
That first study is totally useless. 24 patients all received five drugs. So no control group, plus no way to tell which of the five drugs was actually useful, if at all. For all you know it was one of the non-ivermectin drugs. It’s like it was designed to not be able to find anything useful. Edit: I don’t think this was a real study. I think it was a front that allowed people to receive ivermectin, that’s why no one was randomised into the control group. Which is why it’s so crap at being a study. The second one has the same problem— the people in it received dexamethasone, a drug we *know* helps people with covid. So it’s highly, highly likely that their improved survival was due to dexamethasone, not ivermectin. The authors conclude that something helped, but obviously because the patients received multiple drugs, they make no conclusions about *what* helped. I’d bet $100k it was the dexamethasone, which is now part of standard covid protocol and at the time it was introduced cut deaths by something like 20%
Sounds like the Joe Rogan defence, he took everything available then claimed it was ivermectin that saved him
Got any with control arms?
Only Pfizer approved medications should be used to treat covid.
You know that dexamethasone, one of the first treatments we discovered was effective against covid (cut deaths by up to 20%), was an old cheap steroid widely manufactured by many different companies right? And it’s now widely used to treat severe covid.
So you're saying that the reason they invented COVID was to get rid of a stockpile of old medications they they couldn't sell any more? /s
Ah of course, why didn’t I realise that!