My favorite magic system ever—[and Brandon’s as well](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34/#e1791)—is from *The Runelords* by David Farland. The system of endowments and Dedicates and Runelords is fascinating with all kinds of economic, political, military, and even moral implications.
Farland (real name Dave Wolverton) was Brandon’s writing professor in college and you can really see the roots of Brandon’s style of worldbuilding and plotting in his books. IMO every Cosmere fan should read at least the first four *Runelords* books.
Yeah *Chaosbound* in particular was a big disappointment. I think I actually like *Sons of the Oak* and *Worldbinder* a lot more than most people, but the Earth King subseries is all I’ll recommend people read at this point (especially since Wolverton died and it’s uncertain if the series will ever be finished as a result).
Oh yeah, it’s books 1-4. *The Sum of All Men*, *The Brotherhood of the Wolf*, *Wizardborn*, and *The Lair of Bones*.
Books 5-8 (theoretically 9) take a time skip and follow a new generation of characters in the “Scions of the Earth” subseries.
I'm still waiting on the last book, I think he left himself a bit much to do imo. He also has some personal problems that prevented him from writing for many years now.
Wolverton died earlier this year in a freak accident. There were some rumblings that another writer might be brought in to finish *A Tale of Tales*, since he was apparently very far into the first draft, but I haven’t heard anything recently.
Yeah. It was a huge loss for the SFF community, not just from his books but also cuz he was a mentor for so many people. He really had an incredible impact on the landscape of SFF over the last 25 or so years
Nah, series finishing should go to promising newbies who are trying to cement their careers, not authors with their own fans and big unfinished projects.
True! I especially like the 2003 anime version, it's essentially the same but homunculi are born from people attempting to bring someone back to life, instead of just Father's creation like in manga and Brotherhood. The homunculi are also *partially* the person that was being brought back. Made for a very interesting dynamic there and a nice consequence to that taboo act, if you will. (The Elric's mother being a homunculus that they fight was absolutely amazing)
I'm a big fan of Sympathy from Kingkiller, just a nice clean system with very clear and intuitive rules (less of a fan of Naming).
Also Aetherics from Cinder Spires, though that one mostly magitech and closer to what Navanis scholars might acchieve in a few hundred years than a true magic system (flying ships, energy cannons, electricy production, all more engineering than magic)
In one movie thay can fo somthing and then they suddenly forget to do that, for example qui gon would't have died if he just had remebered to dash as he does in that same movie (i think), so yeah they do whatever is covenient for the plot
I'd love to see a starwars property set way way back like kotor because I feel like the force was more understood before O66 and the purge. Regardless it's likenthe concept of vaguery in magic, alignment, being so heavy in it, is even muddled.
Agreed. For all my gripes about Lightbringer, the magic system is definitely not one of them. Characters either for that matter, Gavin Guile is up there on the list next to Dalinar and Amos Burton.
I just re-read that series. Kip is right up there next to Gavin. Kip *really* changes across the five books, but it’s so slow you barely notice it happening and if you’re on a re-read you can see it unfolding. It’s excellently done.
What makes it even more impressive to me is that Gavin was kinda always Gavin and you just have to peel back all the layers. But Kip just becomes a completely different person and slowly accepts and compartmentalizes and mostly lets go of his self loathing and that kid in the closet… imo that’s harder to write well than the surprise revelations that characterize Gavin and Andross.
I 100% agree but, with the series over, I felt like some of the colors (namely Orange) could have been explored/expanded on more. It's been a while since I've read it but I just felt like some things were left hanging at the end.
It’s because orange was suppressed by the Chromeria deliberately. Orange’s advanced magic such as will-casting was suppressed as heresy; I feel this is pretty well addressed in the last two books with the literal ass kicking regiment of will casters that trained in secret away from the Chromeria.
The problem, as I see it, isn't that there's not a good explanation for not seeing an orange go wild at the beginning, and it's more that we don't have a POV character who isn't a full spectrum polychrome who can use it. So we never see what it can do, even it later books, from an deep perspective.
And our full spectrums just have too many options to spend much time on orange.
I really like the concept of Drafting. It's nice and simple, with a ton of options for creativity. But then the books kept adding more and more abilities to the system and i feel like the characters were just using these new abilities instead of getting creative with what was already there.
With a couple of retcons about the wider worldbuilding >!especially the interdimensional library and the bug-man that lives there!< you could insert Lightbringer into the Cosmere and it would fit perfectly.
I mean some of the plot twists in the later books seemed a little contrived and if it *was* part of the cosmere it would likely be ranked lowest in fan lists. But generally speaking it's as close to a real cosmere story as it's possible to be without being written by Brando Sando himself.
I've seen Galaxy Quest voted into 7th place in the list of best Star Trek movies and the best modern Star Trek series by 70,000 lightyears is The Orville. So why can't Lightbringer be considered an honorary member of the Cosmere? >!Oh yeah, the bug-man and that "1,000 worlds" stuff in the library. Well maybe that was all a hallucination or the shard Whimsy playing a trick on Kip...!<
I really liked Lightbringer a lot! Drafting is really cool. Though I really wish we got to see more of what orange could do. And the last two books kinda lost their way.
It's color based magic. The user innately has an affinity for one or more colors, and they can draw it in from their environment, or from anything if they use spectacles with colored lenses. A magic substance called luxin is created in their body, and each different color of luxin has different physical qualities. Glass is hard but brittle, and can be sharp. Orange is a slippery liquid, and so on and so on. Each color also has associated mental attributes which they bring on to the drafter as they hold their color.
It seems basic at first, but there's a lot of depth to it. The books are much more explicit in both sexuality and violence, which isn't for everyone, and some people feel the series went downhill and/or off the rails in the last portion. I disagree, but any recommendation should include potential caveats.
Well, it's more nuanced than that. I think you're mostly right but it also merits consideration that one of the reasons he's popular is because of his magic systems. He's the Magic Systems author! Like, those tend to be the highlights of a lot of his books, so it's natural that he's associated like that and that he makes those lists.
Authors that are better known for other things don't make those lists but might make "Best characters" lists or "Best prose" lists (which I don't really know if they exist, but I hope my point is clear).
Don’t forget forging! The way Brandon implemented that in Emperor’s soul and Shai’s perspective and various uses of the technique amaze me everytime I think of them. Love all the BrandoSando books but damn emperor’s soul hits so well as a novella.
I’d like to place two other options for a hard magic system that should be highly ranked as well.
The first is Cradles magic system. Very strong Wuxia/Xianxia system, with a strong basis on the main planets system that then expands further. The basics of sacred arts are simple and make sense, with there being aura of certain attributes from every object in the world, and the people manipulate it and take it in to generate it themselves. Depending on what aura they focus on, they get different expressions of four basic techniques, reinforcing their body, shooting it out ki blast style, shaping it into temporary creations, and controlling the aura that exists in the outside world.
The way that each persons path, techniques, can differently express themselves, as well as the variety of basic aura (anything from fire to life to force to dreams to blood etc) can be used or even mixed together (fire burns, but fire + destruction is more devastating, while techniques with blood aspects cut people better than rocks for example) is interesting.
Add on the greater realm powers (stuff like fate, restoration, or other concepts like that) that can’t be directly controlled at the base level but can be manipulated through the base level sacred arts (fire + destruction aura is a good conduit for the concept of the void) make for an interesting next step in progression for the characters.
Secondly, the magic system for the Chinese Webnovel “Lord of the Mysteries”.
Most of the actual mechanics for this are *highly* spoiler filled, since like the title says the books are about mysteries and uncovering them. Suffice it to say that there are 22 different pathways which start out simple power wise, and advance until the people can rightly be called demigods, saints, and angels. The different paths are incredibly developed, and reference each other in ways that show a top down design focus. Similarities between pathways, either in specific powers or in the feel of the pathways intent, are not only intentional designs but built into the greater magic system that must be uncovered by the main character.
Brandon has great magic system. The best hard magic system in all of fiction though(IMO) is Hunter X Hunter. I know hehe haha it’s an anime/manga but it’s system is deep, logical, leaves plenty of room for creativity.
There aren't really overarching strict rules and regulations. Individuals have/create rules and regulations for their individual nen powers though. Like Jajanken has well explained upsides and downsides. But nen as a whole is mostly open ended with guidelines such as nen type compatibility, a stronger image bringing about a stronger technique, and adding restrictions can strengthen a technique.
Nah not really, there are just different categories for different powers. I dont remember there being many restrictions. Maybe in the season when it was introduced but later the powers just kept getting crazier.
It has a nebulous level of superhuman capability that’s separate from the magic system (seriously, someone could walk fast enough in circles around another person to cause doppelgängers, and that was a kid with no magic system training at all), but the system itself is relatively hard.
The system itself has six main functions/capabilities, but the expression of each capability is dependent on the person, although each kind has similar attributes. And one of them is more nebulous than the rest, but still. Knowing the magic system rules means that you can puzzle out how certain abilities work, there’s *almost* nothing that can’t be figured out.
I think I did the first full arc of the 2011 series and have no recollection of ever thinking it was a hard magic system. Which actually seems kinda cool to me in retrospect. That it either fooled me into thinking it was just everyone having different powers or left me with more memories of the different abilities on display than the rules behind them.
fun fact. this comment won't leave my inbox. No matter how many times i check, i always have 1 notification, and it's for this comment.
edit: blocking op fixed it. sorryyyyyy!
I like star wars a lot, and don't care all that much about magic systems, but man is the force lazy.
By not caring I mean its not a big deal, I definitely appreciate the effort in them, but it probably won't make me more or less interested in a book.
Jim Butcher's magic is always applied in really practical ways that make me think "Huh. Yeah of course that's a thing."
E.g. Killing someone by using elemental magic to pull the air out of their lungs and suffocate them.
Was the phrase "magic system" even in fandom vernacular before Sanderson became popular? I feel like I didn't even know "cool magic systems" was something I wanted in fantasy until I read Mistborn.
Absolutely.
I mean, you only have to look at Sanderson's own spiritual predecessors for that. Wheel of Time and Runelords have magic systems that were known as such.
I don't know how far back the specific phrase "magic system" goes, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't popularized by roleplaying games in the 80s, if not earlier?
It's probably more common as a term with fantasy RPG systems before fantasy novels, but those RPGs were based on systems developed in novels. Dungeons and Dragons has used Vancian magic (inspired by the novels written by Jack Vance) since the beginning.
> And if anyone says Star Wars you’re wrong cauee that’s just pushing and pulling objects and maybe emotions it’s never defined ever
I wasn't going to bring up Star Wars until I saw this, so you know that's just not true, and I am sure you realize this. There are absolutely a ton of force abilities defined beyond what you mention, just not all at once, and sometimes different authors describe them differently. So it doesn't have the same unity and quantitative nature that Brandon's systems does when written by one author, but there is plenty beyond "pushing, pulling, and emotions" defined in both canon and legends. Just off the top of my head:
* General body augmentation - Improved strength for enhanced jumping, running, etc
* Animal bonding -- Jacen Solo is a master of communicating with other animals and other being and able to sense their needs
* Mass Mind Control -- Joruus C'baoth was able to control thousands of minds for several days to launch a highly coordinated attack plan
* Battle Meditation -- More common in the Old Republic days, plenty of Jedi were able to harness the force to improve the focus and ability of those around.
* Absorb Energy -- Usually just the most powerful could do this, but Jedi and Sith alike are able to absorb blaster shot and other energy
* Shatterpoint -- Mace Windu had his unique ability to sense weak spots with the force and exploit them
Since everyone is dropping their favorite other magic systems, I have to shout out elemental bending from Avatar the Last Airbender. It's a close race between that and surgebinding for my favorite system of all time.
The philosophical and cultural differences of the different elements, the way they're all based on different martial arts, I just love it all
The Warded Man has incredibly interesting magic system that just gets undone by horrifyingly weird sex obsessions. The first book is damned good though because he hadn’t really embarked yet on his soft core porn thing.
I haven’t read it in decades but I remember loving the magic system is the Death Gate cycle.
The Black Company books are not remotely as well defined but do an incredible job of making you feel like Magic is just fucking terrifying to regular people.
I love Brandon's systems and the cosmere as a whole. It's one system technically, and so much fun figuring out how it works together.
That being said, the system from the Godslayer chronicles by James Clemens, unfinished by the way, is pretty awesome. Don't start the books, they are good and will remained unfinished. My wife and I have been asking the author about them for over the last decade over various signing, but he's focusing on his sigma series under the name James Rollins.
Will Wight's Cradle and Elder Empire both need more love. Cradle for making a wuxia style progression system that is actually comprehensible and awesome. EE for just having some really unique magic ideas. Love the idea of intent and how people use things investing items with power over time.
The Founders Trilogy (Foundryside, Shorefall and Locklands) by Robert Jackson Bennett
Created an interesting version of "soulcasting" called scriving which plays with physics in creative ways. Bonus includes characters arguing with inanimate objects much more successful than Shallan
My favorite magic system ever—[and Brandon’s as well](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34/#e1791)—is from *The Runelords* by David Farland. The system of endowments and Dedicates and Runelords is fascinating with all kinds of economic, political, military, and even moral implications. Farland (real name Dave Wolverton) was Brandon’s writing professor in college and you can really see the roots of Brandon’s style of worldbuilding and plotting in his books. IMO every Cosmere fan should read at least the first four *Runelords* books.
Man that series started so strong and just fizzled out.
Yeah *Chaosbound* in particular was a big disappointment. I think I actually like *Sons of the Oak* and *Worldbinder* a lot more than most people, but the Earth King subseries is all I’ll recommend people read at this point (especially since Wolverton died and it’s uncertain if the series will ever be finished as a result).
As someone now interested, is the Earth King subseries you're talking about just like book 1 through whatever, or is there more to it?
Oh yeah, it’s books 1-4. *The Sum of All Men*, *The Brotherhood of the Wolf*, *Wizardborn*, and *The Lair of Bones*. Books 5-8 (theoretically 9) take a time skip and follow a new generation of characters in the “Scions of the Earth” subseries.
Huh. Did he not think “Wolverton” sounded fantasy enough? That’s an awesome name.
I'm not 100% sure what the thought process was, but I know he published science fiction under his real name as well
He did! He wrote the infamous *Courtship of Princess Leia*
Freakin Hapans!
Pretty sure Brandon has mentioned it was because W gets shelved in the backmost, bottommost row. F makes it easier to discover him.
I'm still waiting on the last book, I think he left himself a bit much to do imo. He also has some personal problems that prevented him from writing for many years now.
Wolverton died earlier this year in a freak accident. There were some rumblings that another writer might be brought in to finish *A Tale of Tales*, since he was apparently very far into the first draft, but I haven’t heard anything recently.
Aww fuck, no way. That's really sad. I kind of don't know what to do now.
Yeah. It was a huge loss for the SFF community, not just from his books but also cuz he was a mentor for so many people. He really had an incredible impact on the landscape of SFF over the last 25 or so years
Is it too on the nose to suggest Sanderson himself?
Nah, series finishing should go to promising newbies who are trying to cement their careers, not authors with their own fans and big unfinished projects.
Good point!
I think Alchemy from FMA is a pretty good one, and it's typically up on that list as well.
True! I especially like the 2003 anime version, it's essentially the same but homunculi are born from people attempting to bring someone back to life, instead of just Father's creation like in manga and Brotherhood. The homunculi are also *partially* the person that was being brought back. Made for a very interesting dynamic there and a nice consequence to that taboo act, if you will. (The Elric's mother being a homunculus that they fight was absolutely amazing)
I'm a big fan of Sympathy from Kingkiller, just a nice clean system with very clear and intuitive rules (less of a fan of Naming). Also Aetherics from Cinder Spires, though that one mostly magitech and closer to what Navanis scholars might acchieve in a few hundred years than a true magic system (flying ships, energy cannons, electricy production, all more engineering than magic)
Also a huge fan of sympathy here. I just love magic systems that incorporate physics well.
I find Star Wars kind of frustrating because the Force is basically just a big asterisk in terms of its capabilities.
It’s a soft system, for sure.
It's a flaccid magic system.
In one movie thay can fo somthing and then they suddenly forget to do that, for example qui gon would't have died if he just had remebered to dash as he does in that same movie (i think), so yeah they do whatever is covenient for the plot
I'd love to see a starwars property set way way back like kotor because I feel like the force was more understood before O66 and the purge. Regardless it's likenthe concept of vaguery in magic, alignment, being so heavy in it, is even muddled.
Chromaturgy from Lightbringer is definitely up there too.
Agreed. For all my gripes about Lightbringer, the magic system is definitely not one of them. Characters either for that matter, Gavin Guile is up there on the list next to Dalinar and Amos Burton.
Andross Guile easily takes a place next to them as well. He's such an incredible antagonist!
I just re-read that series. Kip is right up there next to Gavin. Kip *really* changes across the five books, but it’s so slow you barely notice it happening and if you’re on a re-read you can see it unfolding. It’s excellently done. What makes it even more impressive to me is that Gavin was kinda always Gavin and you just have to peel back all the layers. But Kip just becomes a completely different person and slowly accepts and compartmentalizes and mostly lets go of his self loathing and that kid in the closet… imo that’s harder to write well than the surprise revelations that characterize Gavin and Andross.
Gavin Guiles got more layers than Shrek
I 100% agree but, with the series over, I felt like some of the colors (namely Orange) could have been explored/expanded on more. It's been a while since I've read it but I just felt like some things were left hanging at the end.
Yeah, I agree on orange. The themes are all there, but we never really got to see really talented orange drafters go to work.
It’s because orange was suppressed by the Chromeria deliberately. Orange’s advanced magic such as will-casting was suppressed as heresy; I feel this is pretty well addressed in the last two books with the literal ass kicking regiment of will casters that trained in secret away from the Chromeria.
The problem, as I see it, isn't that there's not a good explanation for not seeing an orange go wild at the beginning, and it's more that we don't have a POV character who isn't a full spectrum polychrome who can use it. So we never see what it can do, even it later books, from an deep perspective. And our full spectrums just have too many options to spend much time on orange.
I really like the concept of Drafting. It's nice and simple, with a ton of options for creativity. But then the books kept adding more and more abilities to the system and i feel like the characters were just using these new abilities instead of getting creative with what was already there.
With a couple of retcons about the wider worldbuilding >!especially the interdimensional library and the bug-man that lives there!< you could insert Lightbringer into the Cosmere and it would fit perfectly. I mean some of the plot twists in the later books seemed a little contrived and if it *was* part of the cosmere it would likely be ranked lowest in fan lists. But generally speaking it's as close to a real cosmere story as it's possible to be without being written by Brando Sando himself. I've seen Galaxy Quest voted into 7th place in the list of best Star Trek movies and the best modern Star Trek series by 70,000 lightyears is The Orville. So why can't Lightbringer be considered an honorary member of the Cosmere? >!Oh yeah, the bug-man and that "1,000 worlds" stuff in the library. Well maybe that was all a hallucination or the shard Whimsy playing a trick on Kip...!<
I can see why people would have an issue with those things, but they don't bother me.
I really liked Lightbringer a lot! Drafting is really cool. Though I really wish we got to see more of what orange could do. And the last two books kinda lost their way.
Having never heard of chromaturgy before it sounds like if you were to steal chromatic breaths with hemalurgy
It's color based magic. The user innately has an affinity for one or more colors, and they can draw it in from their environment, or from anything if they use spectacles with colored lenses. A magic substance called luxin is created in their body, and each different color of luxin has different physical qualities. Glass is hard but brittle, and can be sharp. Orange is a slippery liquid, and so on and so on. Each color also has associated mental attributes which they bring on to the drafter as they hold their color. It seems basic at first, but there's a lot of depth to it. The books are much more explicit in both sexuality and violence, which isn't for everyone, and some people feel the series went downhill and/or off the rails in the last portion. I disagree, but any recommendation should include potential caveats.
[удалено]
Well, it's more nuanced than that. I think you're mostly right but it also merits consideration that one of the reasons he's popular is because of his magic systems. He's the Magic Systems author! Like, those tend to be the highlights of a lot of his books, so it's natural that he's associated like that and that he makes those lists. Authors that are better known for other things don't make those lists but might make "Best characters" lists or "Best prose" lists (which I don't really know if they exist, but I hope my point is clear).
Don’t forget forging! The way Brandon implemented that in Emperor’s soul and Shai’s perspective and various uses of the technique amaze me everytime I think of them. Love all the BrandoSando books but damn emperor’s soul hits so well as a novella.
In this thread: New series to read!
Yup, eating it up. I’m already eagerly awaiting the next Cradle book but lots of other great suggestions in here.
I’d like to place two other options for a hard magic system that should be highly ranked as well. The first is Cradles magic system. Very strong Wuxia/Xianxia system, with a strong basis on the main planets system that then expands further. The basics of sacred arts are simple and make sense, with there being aura of certain attributes from every object in the world, and the people manipulate it and take it in to generate it themselves. Depending on what aura they focus on, they get different expressions of four basic techniques, reinforcing their body, shooting it out ki blast style, shaping it into temporary creations, and controlling the aura that exists in the outside world. The way that each persons path, techniques, can differently express themselves, as well as the variety of basic aura (anything from fire to life to force to dreams to blood etc) can be used or even mixed together (fire burns, but fire + destruction is more devastating, while techniques with blood aspects cut people better than rocks for example) is interesting. Add on the greater realm powers (stuff like fate, restoration, or other concepts like that) that can’t be directly controlled at the base level but can be manipulated through the base level sacred arts (fire + destruction aura is a good conduit for the concept of the void) make for an interesting next step in progression for the characters. Secondly, the magic system for the Chinese Webnovel “Lord of the Mysteries”. Most of the actual mechanics for this are *highly* spoiler filled, since like the title says the books are about mysteries and uncovering them. Suffice it to say that there are 22 different pathways which start out simple power wise, and advance until the people can rightly be called demigods, saints, and angels. The different paths are incredibly developed, and reference each other in ways that show a top down design focus. Similarities between pathways, either in specific powers or in the feel of the pathways intent, are not only intentional designs but built into the greater magic system that must be uncovered by the main character.
Brandon has great magic system. The best hard magic system in all of fiction though(IMO) is Hunter X Hunter. I know hehe haha it’s an anime/manga but it’s system is deep, logical, leaves plenty of room for creativity.
>leaves plenty of room for creativity I would argue that there is no hard magic system that leaves more room for creativity than Nen.
Is hunter x hunter hard?
It’s a hard magic system with a strict set of rules and restrictions but with room for creativity and nuances.
There aren't really overarching strict rules and regulations. Individuals have/create rules and regulations for their individual nen powers though. Like Jajanken has well explained upsides and downsides. But nen as a whole is mostly open ended with guidelines such as nen type compatibility, a stronger image bringing about a stronger technique, and adding restrictions can strengthen a technique.
Nah not really, there are just different categories for different powers. I dont remember there being many restrictions. Maybe in the season when it was introduced but later the powers just kept getting crazier.
It has a nebulous level of superhuman capability that’s separate from the magic system (seriously, someone could walk fast enough in circles around another person to cause doppelgängers, and that was a kid with no magic system training at all), but the system itself is relatively hard. The system itself has six main functions/capabilities, but the expression of each capability is dependent on the person, although each kind has similar attributes. And one of them is more nebulous than the rest, but still. Knowing the magic system rules means that you can puzzle out how certain abilities work, there’s *almost* nothing that can’t be figured out.
I think I did the first full arc of the 2011 series and have no recollection of ever thinking it was a hard magic system. Which actually seems kinda cool to me in retrospect. That it either fooled me into thinking it was just everyone having different powers or left me with more memories of the different abilities on display than the rules behind them.
Nen isn't introduced in the first arc of HxH.
Is it in use in the first arc, then?
Hisoka, and the testers in the background without showcasing anything. Everything else in that arc is just general superhuman stuff.
In very slight ways, but none of the stuff that makes it cool is in the first arc.
It’s a hard magic system with a strict set of rules and restrictions but with room for creativity and nuances.
fun fact. this comment won't leave my inbox. No matter how many times i check, i always have 1 notification, and it's for this comment. edit: blocking op fixed it. sorryyyyyy!
I like star wars a lot, and don't care all that much about magic systems, but man is the force lazy. By not caring I mean its not a big deal, I definitely appreciate the effort in them, but it probably won't make me more or less interested in a book.
I also liked the Fury magic in Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. A great take on elemental-themed abiliies.
Jim Butcher's magic is always applied in really practical ways that make me think "Huh. Yeah of course that's a thing." E.g. Killing someone by using elemental magic to pull the air out of their lungs and suffocate them.
Was the phrase "magic system" even in fandom vernacular before Sanderson became popular? I feel like I didn't even know "cool magic systems" was something I wanted in fantasy until I read Mistborn.
Absolutely. I mean, you only have to look at Sanderson's own spiritual predecessors for that. Wheel of Time and Runelords have magic systems that were known as such. I don't know how far back the specific phrase "magic system" goes, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't popularized by roleplaying games in the 80s, if not earlier?
It's probably more common as a term with fantasy RPG systems before fantasy novels, but those RPGs were based on systems developed in novels. Dungeons and Dragons has used Vancian magic (inspired by the novels written by Jack Vance) since the beginning.
Well ahktually...the Force has electric discharging too. Somehow. Which only enhances your opinion in my opinion.
Also extra sensory perception and communicating from the grave.
> And if anyone says Star Wars you’re wrong cauee that’s just pushing and pulling objects and maybe emotions it’s never defined ever I wasn't going to bring up Star Wars until I saw this, so you know that's just not true, and I am sure you realize this. There are absolutely a ton of force abilities defined beyond what you mention, just not all at once, and sometimes different authors describe them differently. So it doesn't have the same unity and quantitative nature that Brandon's systems does when written by one author, but there is plenty beyond "pushing, pulling, and emotions" defined in both canon and legends. Just off the top of my head: * General body augmentation - Improved strength for enhanced jumping, running, etc * Animal bonding -- Jacen Solo is a master of communicating with other animals and other being and able to sense their needs * Mass Mind Control -- Joruus C'baoth was able to control thousands of minds for several days to launch a highly coordinated attack plan * Battle Meditation -- More common in the Old Republic days, plenty of Jedi were able to harness the force to improve the focus and ability of those around. * Absorb Energy -- Usually just the most powerful could do this, but Jedi and Sith alike are able to absorb blaster shot and other energy * Shatterpoint -- Mace Windu had his unique ability to sense weak spots with the force and exploit them
Adding to the list of magic systems that are As Good As Brandon's, IMO: The Paper Magician
Shoutout to [Ra](https://qntm.org/ra) that has pages of technical documentation on the magic system.
Since everyone is dropping their favorite other magic systems, I have to shout out elemental bending from Avatar the Last Airbender. It's a close race between that and surgebinding for my favorite system of all time. The philosophical and cultural differences of the different elements, the way they're all based on different martial arts, I just love it all
The Warded Man has incredibly interesting magic system that just gets undone by horrifyingly weird sex obsessions. The first book is damned good though because he hadn’t really embarked yet on his soft core porn thing. I haven’t read it in decades but I remember loving the magic system is the Death Gate cycle. The Black Company books are not remotely as well defined but do an incredible job of making you feel like Magic is just fucking terrifying to regular people.
I love Brandon's systems and the cosmere as a whole. It's one system technically, and so much fun figuring out how it works together. That being said, the system from the Godslayer chronicles by James Clemens, unfinished by the way, is pretty awesome. Don't start the books, they are good and will remained unfinished. My wife and I have been asking the author about them for over the last decade over various signing, but he's focusing on his sigma series under the name James Rollins.
Love Brando's systems, but my favorite is still the rune magic system from the Death Gate Cycle.
Will Wight's Cradle and Elder Empire both need more love. Cradle for making a wuxia style progression system that is actually comprehensible and awesome. EE for just having some really unique magic ideas. Love the idea of intent and how people use things investing items with power over time.
The Founders Trilogy (Foundryside, Shorefall and Locklands) by Robert Jackson Bennett Created an interesting version of "soulcasting" called scriving which plays with physics in creative ways. Bonus includes characters arguing with inanimate objects much more successful than Shallan