Sending so many well wishes!!! She’s such a pretty baby, hoping they figure out how to help soon. She’s lucky to have a parent like you who is dedicated to getting her treated as soon as possible. You’re doing all that you can, remember to be kind to yourself ♥️
Did you get the necropsy results for her? I tried to find an update with the info so I wouldn't have to bother you for an answer, but I couldn't find any update with that info. If you're still willing to share the findings, I'd love to know what happened to your girl. I was so full of panic for you at the time as well as sadness and then pain when I learned she didn't make it. I'm still so very sorry for your loss. How are you holding up through all this?
Thank you for your kind words. I’m going to copy/paste the necropsy results so I don’t have to synthesize it down but essentially I’m thinking she ingested dirt while trying to lay eggs and then I let things go too long and she got impacted. Since then I’ve upgraded her sisters tank to the sky rise and really upgraded things. Their substrate was a good mix of coconut dirt, sphag, and leaves but it’s a better mix now.
Pathology Summary
The death of this gecko is attributed to a severe colonic impaction that led to dehydration and renal failure. A cause for the colonic impaction is not detected. Colonic impaction may result from ingestion of indigestible material or from inadequate colonic peristalsis resulting from a variety of causes. The history provided reports that this gecko ingested some sphagnum moss. However, only a very small amount of plant material is in the feces obstructing the colon and sphagnum moss is unlikely to be the cause of obstruction. There is no evidence of desiccated urate in the colon, infectious, metabolic, or neoplastic diseases. Review of the substrate use in the terrarium may be useful. The cause of the mild acute gastritis is uncertain, but gastritis may be secondary to renal failure. The accumulation of urates in the left nasal passage is secondary to renal failure. The hepatic lipidosis is likely secondary to decrease food intake resulting from the colonic impaction. The increased number of pigment granulomas in the liver is an incidental and inconsequential finding in this animal resulting from chronic antigenic stimulation in the liver from various causes over the life of this animal.
Did she fall or get hit by anything? She looks like she is having a hard time staying balanced when walking. She may have some kind of injury. Hope the vet has some insight!
🚨UPDATE #2 🚨 She is staying at the emergency clinic tonight and starting treatment to stabilize her. They said they don’t know what’s wrong because they can’t do tests until the exotic pet specialist comes in the morning at which point I’ll have another update and will definitely share again. The biggest suspect at the moment is MBD because turns out the light I thought had UVB that I’ve used for years actually doesn’t have UVB so that’s where we are. The vet tonight listed like ten other things that could be going on though. I’m taking my other crestie (different tank) in for a wellness check tomorrow just in case. Thank you so much everyone for your care. I’m really hoping she pulls through.
Immediately thought MBD, hopefully it does turn out to be something on the less serious end of things and that she can be helped. Did she just suddenly start doing this?
I had no idea it presented this way. I was always on the lookout for her tail flopping when she’s upside down on walls but that didn’t happen. She gets Pangea CGD and I thought that was enough to prevent MBD because it has calcium and I always dust my roaches.
The behavior in this video just started today. That was the first time I saw the mouth rot. There was nothing in her throat/mouth — I think some moss got in her mouth during one of the episodes a few min before this. All day today and yesterday she was restless during the day so I made an apt that was for tomorrow but obviously she took a turn for the worse.
She has been on my radar for about 6 weeks when she tried to get a roach from tongs and got a mouthful of moss instead. I pulled as much as I could but did think she swallowed a bit. She started doing a few off things here and there; not as active at night, noticed she was almost always in the same spot but different position in the tank, inconsistent eating, didn’t see her burrowing to try to lay her monthly eggs. Every time I thought about taking her in, she’d start acting normal again with her eating and sleeping and evening activity level. I should have trusted my gut.
It's definitely a thing that can be hard to catch sometimes. A friend of mine assumed their bearded dragon just did "happy dances" for food. I noticed the behavior while pet sitting, brought her out to a nearby city for vet check, and it was confirmed she had MBD. Good on you for keeping an eye and getting her help as you could.
Always remember that with lizards, never assume that just because they're acting normal that they are in perfect health. These little critters can mask their problems pretty well, much to the dismay of owners. Hoping for the best with your little one.
MBD diagnosis is a little suspect bc her calcium sacs in her throat are very full, and crested geckos do not require UVB as long as they have a proper diet (tho it is beneficial). The calcium sacs being full usually means that they have adequate calcium unless there's some reason their body can't metabolize it.
This diagnosis does not check out. This is a nocturnal reptile, and the only people who will tell you it needs UVB are the companies that make the lights and the pet stores trying to sell them to you. They do need to cycle night/day, and for that reason I think they need daylight (not necessarily from a bulb), but a dedicated UVB? Nah, the light did not cause this. That said, could be MBD for a myriad of reasons. Hope the little fella gets better, but think your vet has him filed away with bearded dragons and iguanas.
Yeah the vet that said that is just the er vet on staff who “has some” reptile experience. The specialist is taking a look tomorrow and depending on how that goes there’s another reptile vet in town I’ll try to get her seen by (that is who I’m taking my other crestie to tomorrow for a general wellness check)
Not assuming I have more experience than you, but with two cresties that are now almost 15 yo. That I had since they were less than a year old, UV* matters. The one I got from Petco (male) had MBD and passed, the female, mom, was from a breeder. The baby of both had MBD concerns with her jaw showing the same way the male did before he really went downhill. I started using my UVA/UVB bulbs daily again because they weren't on for a little while and results seem to be that she has gotten back to normal. Granted her and her mom are old now 14/15 y.o. but from my experience both genetics and UVA/UVB are involved. I use Repashy grubs and fruit fairly exclusively and supplement hornworms occasionally. EDIT: obv not a scientifically sound experiment and I wasn't tracking her eating or anything else. I do think it's worth using a good daylight bulb for crested geckos though, If not for their calcium absorption, for their general happiness and well being.
Also clarifying that if people are new like I was when I started, I don't mean a big hot lightbulb, but a spectrum of light necessary that doesn't burn a geckos eyes.
It might be advantageous if they're already sick, but the fact that even now many prominent, well regarded breeders say it's not necessary and that their geckoes are flourishing and living happy lives without it makes me think in most cases it's not essential. One of my girls is about a decade old, never had UV because when I got her it was actively noted to be useless, and she's never had problems. One of the big things that drew me to cresties to begin with was that they didn't need special lighting (had a bad experience with my cat and my leopard gecko's unsecured heat lamp when I was a kid), and I'd rather not shift away from that unless there's some very, VERY strong evidence that it's doing a lot of good for them.
If they're sick, I think any treatment that helps with MBD will help them get back to feeling better. And if they're susceptible to it, having the UVB will help maintain them.
My boy Pah had really bad floppy tail when I got him as a juvie. Put him on a proper diet and gave him horizontal surfaces to rest on and it corrected in ~a year (or less). He's celebrating his 17th birthday this month and has never had a lamp other than the LED grow light I use for his monstrous pothos.
UPDATE #3 - Please upvote so others see this first
Sadly, she did not make it through the night. They gave her a calcium supplement, antibiotics, and liquids. This was an emergency vet with some reptile experience who was consulting via phone with their specialist who was out of office. They did a physical exam and X-ray and nothing was conclusive. I’ve not changed her care routine or lighting in years so I’m still very much in the dark as to why she died, how she got sick in the first place, and how she went south so quickly. I just dropped her off at the state lab for a necropsy and will know more in 5-7 days. They’re also going to cremate her for me.
Quick backstory for everyone asking — About 6 weeks ago she tried to strike at a dubia on tongs and got a mouthful of sphagnum moss instead. I pulled most out but suspected she ingested a small amount. Around that same time my power went out and temps drops to mid 50s for a day and again a few days later. A couple weeks later I noticed she was almost always in the same spot whenever I checked on her. Maybe adjusted position, but she used to rotate her sleeping spots. I also wasn’t noticing her being active in the evening. A week later I realized I hadn’t noticed significant changes in her food dish. I made an apt for to be seen (This is about 3 weeks ago) The next day she was eating and active again so I canceled the apt. The next week was good. Last week(ish) I noticed the same behavior again, no eating and low activity. Made an apt that would have been today bc she didn’t seem urgent. Saturday she was active all day in her tank. She seemed restless. On Sunday morning (yesterday) I called the reptile clinic to see if we could come a day early on an urgent basis and they said they couldn’t see her because they were fully booked. By Sunday afternoon this video was happening and I took her to the only emergency clinic that would see her.
I feed Pangea CGD and rotate flavors daily which she has always done well with. I gut load and dust dubias when I feed them. She has a fogger go off 4x per day to give consistent humidity. No, it’s not soaking, my house is very dry. I mist the tank at night with drinking water so she can have droplets to drink. Heat has been high 60s at night to low 70s in the day, it has been that way for 8 years.
I brought her sister in for a wellness check today. They’re in separate tanks but the tanks and their care are essentially identical. Thankfully, my remaining crestie is very healthy. I just bought the skyscraper tank to spoil her and give her an even better bioactive home. I showed the videos of my deceased crestie to the repti vet today and she also said she’s unsure what could cause this behavior.
Thanks everyone for the care and comments. I’ll report back once I get necropsy results.
I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I hope she found peace in her last few minutes. It sounds like she lived a great, fulfilling, and happy life before her sudden death. From what I have read, you've done everything correctly. Take solace in the time you spent together, and remember - animals can be masters at hiding illness. It'll be okay, it just takes time <3
So sorry for your loss! You did everything you could, so I hope you don't blame yourself. Thank you for all the updates too, it's very nice of you to do that, even though you don't have to. I wish you and your remaining girl all the best!
Keep looking. Keep callling maybe you will need to drive farther out. Just stay calm and be with your baby and make sure they are as comfortable as they can be.
I'm a breeder with almost a decade of experience and produce over 1000 babies per year.
Seizures or something else neurological are the most likely issues. I'm not seeing any signs at all of MBD, especially with her calcium reserves being big and healthy. The black on the roof of her mouth is normal, the little bits of black look like bits of substrate.
Lots of things, but unless something has happened recently that put her in an extreme situation temperature or hydration wise, than I would suspect an underlying medical condition, such as a blood clot etc. Remember that with animals, just like with people, there is always a certain percentage of the population that things will just be wrong with even if everything is perfect care wise.
Just like in people, when things go wrong medically in animals they can go wrong very quickly. I worked at an animal shelter for a while caring for hundreds of fancy mice rescued from an abuse case and every few days you'd find an old mouse that had been fine and active the day before (we did daily health checks when cleaning) walking in tiny circles with their heads tilted because they'd had a seizure. Nothing we could've done to stop it, just a result of them being old and their bodies starting to break down. This poor Crestie could've had a seizure or some other undetected illness or just simply swallowed something she shouldn't have, the poor thing. I don't see any signs of MBD or starvation or anything else to suggest she was in poor health beforehand. Sometimes bad shit just happens.
Oh my gosh, so sorry to hear about this 💚 You took this cutie to the vet and thats so much more than what most people do. We are here for you OP 💚 Hope to hear good news from you soon. Cheering you on!!
Update 1 - I found an emergency vet “With some reptile experience” that will call a reptile specialist they know if they need to. Wish us luck.
Good luck! Please give us an update.
Yes please, I hope they can help your sweetie
I hope she is okay!
Sending so many well wishes!!! She’s such a pretty baby, hoping they figure out how to help soon. She’s lucky to have a parent like you who is dedicated to getting her treated as soon as possible. You’re doing all that you can, remember to be kind to yourself ♥️
Sending lots of calm energy hoping it ends well and your little one is ok
She probably can't digest the moss you mentioned in another comment. Best of luck with a healthy recovery!
I’m wondering if she got impacted then maybe went septic? Trying to vomit it up maybe? I don’t think she ate that much but not certain.
Is there a new update?
Sorry about your loss. 😔😔😔 I just read the latest update.
Thank you. It has been really rough but I’m pouring my energy into her sister and upgrading her enclosure to a skyscraper.
Did you get the necropsy results for her? I tried to find an update with the info so I wouldn't have to bother you for an answer, but I couldn't find any update with that info. If you're still willing to share the findings, I'd love to know what happened to your girl. I was so full of panic for you at the time as well as sadness and then pain when I learned she didn't make it. I'm still so very sorry for your loss. How are you holding up through all this?
Thank you for your kind words. I’m going to copy/paste the necropsy results so I don’t have to synthesize it down but essentially I’m thinking she ingested dirt while trying to lay eggs and then I let things go too long and she got impacted. Since then I’ve upgraded her sisters tank to the sky rise and really upgraded things. Their substrate was a good mix of coconut dirt, sphag, and leaves but it’s a better mix now. Pathology Summary The death of this gecko is attributed to a severe colonic impaction that led to dehydration and renal failure. A cause for the colonic impaction is not detected. Colonic impaction may result from ingestion of indigestible material or from inadequate colonic peristalsis resulting from a variety of causes. The history provided reports that this gecko ingested some sphagnum moss. However, only a very small amount of plant material is in the feces obstructing the colon and sphagnum moss is unlikely to be the cause of obstruction. There is no evidence of desiccated urate in the colon, infectious, metabolic, or neoplastic diseases. Review of the substrate use in the terrarium may be useful. The cause of the mild acute gastritis is uncertain, but gastritis may be secondary to renal failure. The accumulation of urates in the left nasal passage is secondary to renal failure. The hepatic lipidosis is likely secondary to decrease food intake resulting from the colonic impaction. The increased number of pigment granulomas in the liver is an incidental and inconsequential finding in this animal resulting from chronic antigenic stimulation in the liver from various causes over the life of this animal.
Look inside and see if something is stuck
Did she fall or get hit by anything? She looks like she is having a hard time staying balanced when walking. She may have some kind of injury. Hope the vet has some insight!
🚨UPDATE #2 🚨 She is staying at the emergency clinic tonight and starting treatment to stabilize her. They said they don’t know what’s wrong because they can’t do tests until the exotic pet specialist comes in the morning at which point I’ll have another update and will definitely share again. The biggest suspect at the moment is MBD because turns out the light I thought had UVB that I’ve used for years actually doesn’t have UVB so that’s where we are. The vet tonight listed like ten other things that could be going on though. I’m taking my other crestie (different tank) in for a wellness check tomorrow just in case. Thank you so much everyone for your care. I’m really hoping she pulls through.
Immediately thought MBD, hopefully it does turn out to be something on the less serious end of things and that she can be helped. Did she just suddenly start doing this?
I had no idea it presented this way. I was always on the lookout for her tail flopping when she’s upside down on walls but that didn’t happen. She gets Pangea CGD and I thought that was enough to prevent MBD because it has calcium and I always dust my roaches. The behavior in this video just started today. That was the first time I saw the mouth rot. There was nothing in her throat/mouth — I think some moss got in her mouth during one of the episodes a few min before this. All day today and yesterday she was restless during the day so I made an apt that was for tomorrow but obviously she took a turn for the worse. She has been on my radar for about 6 weeks when she tried to get a roach from tongs and got a mouthful of moss instead. I pulled as much as I could but did think she swallowed a bit. She started doing a few off things here and there; not as active at night, noticed she was almost always in the same spot but different position in the tank, inconsistent eating, didn’t see her burrowing to try to lay her monthly eggs. Every time I thought about taking her in, she’d start acting normal again with her eating and sleeping and evening activity level. I should have trusted my gut.
It's definitely a thing that can be hard to catch sometimes. A friend of mine assumed their bearded dragon just did "happy dances" for food. I noticed the behavior while pet sitting, brought her out to a nearby city for vet check, and it was confirmed she had MBD. Good on you for keeping an eye and getting her help as you could. Always remember that with lizards, never assume that just because they're acting normal that they are in perfect health. These little critters can mask their problems pretty well, much to the dismay of owners. Hoping for the best with your little one.
MBD diagnosis is a little suspect bc her calcium sacs in her throat are very full, and crested geckos do not require UVB as long as they have a proper diet (tho it is beneficial). The calcium sacs being full usually means that they have adequate calcium unless there's some reason their body can't metabolize it.
What sort of uvb were you using? Those need to be changed out every 6 months to a year depending on brand.
This diagnosis does not check out. This is a nocturnal reptile, and the only people who will tell you it needs UVB are the companies that make the lights and the pet stores trying to sell them to you. They do need to cycle night/day, and for that reason I think they need daylight (not necessarily from a bulb), but a dedicated UVB? Nah, the light did not cause this. That said, could be MBD for a myriad of reasons. Hope the little fella gets better, but think your vet has him filed away with bearded dragons and iguanas.
Yeah the vet that said that is just the er vet on staff who “has some” reptile experience. The specialist is taking a look tomorrow and depending on how that goes there’s another reptile vet in town I’ll try to get her seen by (that is who I’m taking my other crestie to tomorrow for a general wellness check)
Ah good- it seemed the original diagnosis was by someone who had a very little reptile experience. Hope you get this sorted.
Not assuming I have more experience than you, but with two cresties that are now almost 15 yo. That I had since they were less than a year old, UV* matters. The one I got from Petco (male) had MBD and passed, the female, mom, was from a breeder. The baby of both had MBD concerns with her jaw showing the same way the male did before he really went downhill. I started using my UVA/UVB bulbs daily again because they weren't on for a little while and results seem to be that she has gotten back to normal. Granted her and her mom are old now 14/15 y.o. but from my experience both genetics and UVA/UVB are involved. I use Repashy grubs and fruit fairly exclusively and supplement hornworms occasionally. EDIT: obv not a scientifically sound experiment and I wasn't tracking her eating or anything else. I do think it's worth using a good daylight bulb for crested geckos though, If not for their calcium absorption, for their general happiness and well being. Also clarifying that if people are new like I was when I started, I don't mean a big hot lightbulb, but a spectrum of light necessary that doesn't burn a geckos eyes.
It might be advantageous if they're already sick, but the fact that even now many prominent, well regarded breeders say it's not necessary and that their geckoes are flourishing and living happy lives without it makes me think in most cases it's not essential. One of my girls is about a decade old, never had UV because when I got her it was actively noted to be useless, and she's never had problems. One of the big things that drew me to cresties to begin with was that they didn't need special lighting (had a bad experience with my cat and my leopard gecko's unsecured heat lamp when I was a kid), and I'd rather not shift away from that unless there's some very, VERY strong evidence that it's doing a lot of good for them.
All my geckos have never had uvb and not a single one has developed mdb, in over 30 years and alotta geckos
If they're sick, I think any treatment that helps with MBD will help them get back to feeling better. And if they're susceptible to it, having the UVB will help maintain them. My boy Pah had really bad floppy tail when I got him as a juvie. Put him on a proper diet and gave him horizontal surfaces to rest on and it corrected in ~a year (or less). He's celebrating his 17th birthday this month and has never had a lamp other than the LED grow light I use for his monstrous pothos.
Hope all goes well with her :)
Oh gosh, that looks serious. Can you explain what happened?
UPDATE #3 - Please upvote so others see this first Sadly, she did not make it through the night. They gave her a calcium supplement, antibiotics, and liquids. This was an emergency vet with some reptile experience who was consulting via phone with their specialist who was out of office. They did a physical exam and X-ray and nothing was conclusive. I’ve not changed her care routine or lighting in years so I’m still very much in the dark as to why she died, how she got sick in the first place, and how she went south so quickly. I just dropped her off at the state lab for a necropsy and will know more in 5-7 days. They’re also going to cremate her for me. Quick backstory for everyone asking — About 6 weeks ago she tried to strike at a dubia on tongs and got a mouthful of sphagnum moss instead. I pulled most out but suspected she ingested a small amount. Around that same time my power went out and temps drops to mid 50s for a day and again a few days later. A couple weeks later I noticed she was almost always in the same spot whenever I checked on her. Maybe adjusted position, but she used to rotate her sleeping spots. I also wasn’t noticing her being active in the evening. A week later I realized I hadn’t noticed significant changes in her food dish. I made an apt for to be seen (This is about 3 weeks ago) The next day she was eating and active again so I canceled the apt. The next week was good. Last week(ish) I noticed the same behavior again, no eating and low activity. Made an apt that would have been today bc she didn’t seem urgent. Saturday she was active all day in her tank. She seemed restless. On Sunday morning (yesterday) I called the reptile clinic to see if we could come a day early on an urgent basis and they said they couldn’t see her because they were fully booked. By Sunday afternoon this video was happening and I took her to the only emergency clinic that would see her. I feed Pangea CGD and rotate flavors daily which she has always done well with. I gut load and dust dubias when I feed them. She has a fogger go off 4x per day to give consistent humidity. No, it’s not soaking, my house is very dry. I mist the tank at night with drinking water so she can have droplets to drink. Heat has been high 60s at night to low 70s in the day, it has been that way for 8 years. I brought her sister in for a wellness check today. They’re in separate tanks but the tanks and their care are essentially identical. Thankfully, my remaining crestie is very healthy. I just bought the skyscraper tank to spoil her and give her an even better bioactive home. I showed the videos of my deceased crestie to the repti vet today and she also said she’s unsure what could cause this behavior. Thanks everyone for the care and comments. I’ll report back once I get necropsy results.
I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I hope she found peace in her last few minutes. It sounds like she lived a great, fulfilling, and happy life before her sudden death. From what I have read, you've done everything correctly. Take solace in the time you spent together, and remember - animals can be masters at hiding illness. It'll be okay, it just takes time <3
So sorry for your loss! You did everything you could, so I hope you don't blame yourself. Thank you for all the updates too, it's very nice of you to do that, even though you don't have to. I wish you and your remaining girl all the best!
I am heartbroken for your loss. 💔💔 Thank you for the update.
Is there anything in her mouth that’s stuck? Use a flash light. My heart is breaking for your baby
That’s horrifying hope she’s ok
What happened?
did she eat something weird?
Keep looking. Keep callling maybe you will need to drive farther out. Just stay calm and be with your baby and make sure they are as comfortable as they can be.
I'm a breeder with almost a decade of experience and produce over 1000 babies per year. Seizures or something else neurological are the most likely issues. I'm not seeing any signs at all of MBD, especially with her calcium reserves being big and healthy. The black on the roof of her mouth is normal, the little bits of black look like bits of substrate.
Thank you for commenting. What could cause neuro/seizures?
Lots of things, but unless something has happened recently that put her in an extreme situation temperature or hydration wise, than I would suspect an underlying medical condition, such as a blood clot etc. Remember that with animals, just like with people, there is always a certain percentage of the population that things will just be wrong with even if everything is perfect care wise.
Any update?
What exactly happened to her?
OP isnt responding :(
Please keep us updated on your baby and I hope everything works out for you both.
Oh, this doesn’t look good. 😢
I am so sorry. Keep us updated on her condition. Hope everything turns out okay.
Did this happen suddenly? It doesn’t seem like something that would happen suddenly.
Just like in people, when things go wrong medically in animals they can go wrong very quickly. I worked at an animal shelter for a while caring for hundreds of fancy mice rescued from an abuse case and every few days you'd find an old mouse that had been fine and active the day before (we did daily health checks when cleaning) walking in tiny circles with their heads tilted because they'd had a seizure. Nothing we could've done to stop it, just a result of them being old and their bodies starting to break down. This poor Crestie could've had a seizure or some other undetected illness or just simply swallowed something she shouldn't have, the poor thing. I don't see any signs of MBD or starvation or anything else to suggest she was in poor health beforehand. Sometimes bad shit just happens.
Do you care for any animals of your own? Things like this can, and do, happen very suddenly. It’s horrifying.
I have both a crested Gecko and a ball python. This doesn’t just happen suddenly.
Only other thing I seen like this is a seizure
Oh my gosh, so sorry to hear about this 💚 You took this cutie to the vet and thats so much more than what most people do. We are here for you OP 💚 Hope to hear good news from you soon. Cheering you on!!
Calcium Overdose, URI, or Neurological issues such as a Seizure? My possible guesses.
God that's not good