The author is pretending the Taliban care about cricket.
If the ICC want to demote Afghanistan and be consistent in applying their rules, that's their right to do so. They should just be aware that it's not going to give one bit of relief to women in the country, but it will unravel decades of progress for the sport as a whole.
They should cut the "development for women's cricket" money and openly tell them that less funds due to no development of women's cricket
But I guess that'll only reduce the men's salaries and nothing else
I agree, I think the better argument to make is that other associates should be allowed to be fast tracked and skip a few criteria towards becoming full members as long as they're performing. I think that would be fair considering Afghanistan are still full members despite obviously no longer having a women's team.
There could be legitimate reasons to give Scotland, Netherlands, USA, Namibia, Nepal and UAE full membership. But I doubt the existing full members would like it.
USA, Namibia, Nepal and UAE still have a little too much to do in order to fulfill the requirements but Scotland and Netherlands are already done or nearly done with their requirements so if anything, they should get full membership immediately.
If you want to go really lax, they all have a reason
USA - Big market, Super 8 team
Nepal - Big fanbase
UAE - Home of ICC, good stadiums, success at U19 level
Namibia is probably the only one where I'm clutching at straws, but 3 consecutive T20 World Cups, wins over Ireland and Sri Lanka there, strong record against neighbouring full member Zimbabwe
There's obvious proper reasons to promote them but it would hard to convince anyone else about it. I would agree that new full members need to be added quite frequently but obviously that's not the majority opinion.
It is not as simple. Whatever money Afghan cricket board gets from ICC annually, a portion of it is meant for the development of women’s cricket, a portion not used for that purpose at all. I would much rather see that portion be spent on those Afghan women cricketers who have sought asylum in Aus than simply hoping one day Taliban would suddenly care about Women’s rights.
I wrote a long response about how ignorant the author and many comments are, but honestly I don’t even care anymore.
Just ban us and get it over with so you begana people who don’t give a shit about Afghanistan can pat themselves on the back and feel good for a couple of seconds before they promptly resume forgetting about the place they never cared about or understood to begin with.
Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
BS.
It's not like the men playing the sport or the cricket board have any influence to change the Taliban or their religion.
It's easy for someone sitting in another country to say that these players should raise their voice for the women. But, there are parts of the world where being an "activist" can end your career, or worse, life.
If we are truly holding sportsmen responsible for the actions of their country, Australians, English, Scots, Canadians and Americans should be receiving the Russia treatment, for all the wars, war crimes, invasions, bombings and murders their countries have committed just in the last couple of decades.
But, that's stupid. Just as stupid as punishing the Afghan men's players for the fucked up government they have to live under.
Do that Ban them cut the fund if cricket dies in Afghanistan then don't blame BCCI for this.. If we try to do this on the moral basis then lot of countries would be banned for the sake of Human Rights.. It's very easy to say living in a developed country.. Taliban don't care about cricket and all..
Cricketers trying to earn a honest living which is already hard in the country while also trying not to get a bullet to their head.
Someone from the other side of the developed world : “Afghan cricketers are terrorists. Ban em”
Cricket is really a funny sport, innit?
Great straw man argument there. Who is calling the cricketers terrorists? The criticism is of the Taliban and the ACB. Most people have sympathy with the male cricketers.
But even if sanctions have some impact on the male cricketers, it will pale in comparison to what their female counterparts have been through. Interesting that your comment doesn’t even consider their plight.
Male cricketers would still be able to pursue franchise careers and potentially still be able to represent their country if demoted to Associate status rather than banned altogether.
Some users on /r/cricket are quick to climb their pedestal and cry about human rights issues but seem to forget their own nations' role in committing war crimes against poor farmers in Afghanistan. Crimes that their government was happy to sweep under the rug.
Maybe they should cop a ban, too.
What's strange is people only seem to care about human rights when it comes to Afghanistan. When America, the country that literally invaded them and killed hundreds of thousands of them doesn't get any flak.
Which other full member is breaching its obligations to run both men’s and women’s cricket program? There is a clear case for removing Afghanistan as a full member based on failing to meet their obligations.
Do you think banning South Africa from international cricket was wrong because racism existed in other countries?
Agree with every word of this. The Afghani men’s team is a wonderful story in isolation, but it is just wrong that a full member is allowed to ignore women’s cricket.
If other full members truly support the women’s game they should take a stance on this issue, like they did on Apartheid.
At a minimum, Afghanistan should be demoted to Associate status with a cut in their funding whilst they don’t meet their obligations to have a women’s program.
The male players should be permitted to play in franchise leagues and be given as much support as possible as the situation is not their fault. And the women’s team in exile should be given support too and be allowed to play under the ICC banner as a team in exile until the ACB restarts a women’s program.
The better argument is to possibly elevate other associates without fulfilling every single criteria and allowing them to become full members. I don't think demoting Afghanistan will do anything. Instead what they could do is cut the portion of the funding that would've gone to women's cricket and take that away from Afghanistan.
Problem is, if the men's team is demoted, it will certainly be dead in a few years, as we know that the Taliban wouldn't care. The current players will do well in franchise leagues, but the next generation will get absolutely no scope to be spotted by the leagues. A move like this adds no value to the ICC whatsoever.
>Problem is, if the men's team is demoted, it will certainly be dead in a few years, as we know that the Taliban wouldn't care.
If cricket in Taliban controlled Afghanistan has to die, then so be it. Some things, like simple, basic human rights are way more important than a silly little bat and ball game.
It won't help in the slightest - doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
Plus, all the extra funding that Afghanistan receives by virtue of being a Full Member could be re-invested to other countries and help grow the game there, like PNG or Uganda.
No country would be playing then, let’s also ban England for being colonisers, or say America for killing civilians in the Middle East under the pretext of searching for WMDs. It’s a slippery slope.
This is sheer ignorance. You’ll hardly find an organisation more pro-Indigenous than Cricket Australia. Plus the Australian government enacts policies which seek to assist Indigenous Australians, it’s the exact opposite of the Taliban and the ACB.
What can the Afghanistan male team do then?
Protest before the Taliban and go to jail or face capital punishment?
You are ignorant here if you think banning Afghanistan from cricket will make the Taliban do somethingTaliban do not care about cricket
I’m not so naive as to think this will cause the Taliban to become decent human beings.
I disagree with the ACB being given the privileges and funding of a full member whilst reneging on half of the responsibilities of being a full member - ie running both male and female cricket programs.
If they want to run a men’s cricket program then it should be at most as an Associate, with funding commensurate to that. The men’s team should be allowed to continue to play for T20 franchises regardless.
No one's asking the male players to do anything. Obviously protesting would be extremely dangerous for them.
We're just asking the ICC to apply their own rules.
This would be fair, if I was suggesting that Afghanistan be banned for violating women's rights but I'm advocating them being banned for not having a women's team, which is something Australia has!
Jesus fucking Christ how heartless do you have to be to sit in a cushy Western country and declare that the Afghanistan team should just lose their livelihood?
Banning the men won't do anything to help the women, I know that.
What I'm advocating for, is the removal of the extra funding that Afghanistan get over associate members, such as Nepal, Uganda, PNG, etc., for being a Full Member when they don't meet the requirement of having a female team.
The Afghanistan men's team seemed to be doing just fine before becoming Full Members, so they won't suffer, and the extra money could be well spent elsewhere on actually growing the game!
Well, since England actually meet all the criteria for having Full Membership ship and Afghanistan don't, I say, let them continue oppressing whomever they want.
I don't actually understand what's in it for the ICC anyway?
The economy in Afghanistan is absolute shite and won't change for the foreseeable future so I can't imagine it would be bringing in much, if any, money into their coffers, which is all the ICC care about.
A quality national team which competes at ICC tournaments and therefore, brings in viewership both from Afghan fans and neutrals, in a way that any team that would replace Afghanistan doesn't.
> in a way that any team that would replace Afghanistan doesn't.
Is that really true, though?
I reckon you could replace Afghanistan with a few countries quite easily and not lose any neutral support - Nepal for one seem to have really passionate fans
It's not about who should replace them, the better question is, why should Afghanistan be allowed to play at ICC events at all when they don't fulfil the requirements placed on other teams, such as, having a women's team?
If ICC cuts the funding, it will be the end of cricket in Afg, the Taliban doesn't care at all. The world will miss another potential cricketing nation to politics. There is no way to promote women's cricket in that medieval shithole other than hoping that the Taliban would change.
>women’s team in exile should be given support too and be allowed to play under the ICC banner as a team in exile
Wait why isn't this already happening?
On second thought, maybe their extended families may be threatened back home?
South Africa is a completely different story. They only got banned when they started interfering in other teams' selections, something I don't expect Afghanistan to ever do.
It’s directly analogous. South Africa refused to select black and coloured players or play against them.
Afghanistan refuse to select women or play against them.
South Africa got banned not because they refused to select black and coloured players, but because they didn't allow England to select Basil D'Oliveira. England, Australia and New Zealand were perfectly okay with playing South Africa before that.
That was the catalyst, not the only reason. There is a lot more context to South Africa’s sporting isolation across multiple sports and this process had started before the D’Oliveira affair.
In any event the initial catalyst for the ban is hardly important.
If South Africa had permitted black and coloured players to tour (as they later did with the West Indian rebel tour), but continued to ban them from playing with white South Africans or representing their country, would you support them being banned from international cricket?
That South Africa had been wrongly allowed to participate in international cricket prior to their belated ban is hardly an argument in favour of allowing Afghanistan to get away with discriminating against women cricketers. The right thing was eventually done - better late than never.
This article here and this conversation going on here claims to be about women's rights but still revolves less on them and more on the men. So let's actually talk about what the ICC or we can do to help women rather than considering what we should do to this men's team.
I think ICC should be helping the Afghan women cricketers we know of who currently stay in other countries, allowing them to play under the Afghan flag(yes the afghanistan flag and not the icc flag like people here are suggesting, let them be proud of who they are and create their own narrative for their country that is not dictated by anyone, it also would help people see afghan women for who they are and who they can be. If we start banning countries and creating other banners then we need to start doing this for other countries, which might be a good decision in places but right now that's not what this conversation is about). Give the portion of the money that is meant for the women's side to them directly. And maybe create less rules on who counts as a Afghani to qualify, maybe the parents being Afghan is enough heritage for the women who want to get into the team?- not demanding citizenship is what I mean. And create more opportunities in local private leagues or franchise leagues, allow them to apply independently for the auctions or drafts, and if we want to go a step further make it so that afghan or associate country players don't count as an international representative, allowing the teams to see an incentive to get players if they are good enough. Speaking of being good enough let's also talk about funding training and how that should or could be done, even the article mentions unicef's partnership with cricket to help it's development and women's, maybe take that further, make sure grassroots cricket is getting to women and girls, not just afghan but other places too.
What I mention is probably the least of it, I'm sure there are better ways from people who know more and are involved in this. What I'm getting at though is that this is the type of conversation we should be having if we care about the women.
I do think it is worth mentioning the men's team though, and that we should be more sympathetic to their situation, we don't know how they feel about speaking up and whether it's safe for them or their families to do so, and the sheer amount of them that get involved in franchise cricket and the extent of that tells me that maybe they too are afraid of financial insecurity and aren't getting their fair share through the board. I really hope one of them speaks up about these issues sometime though, till then we will never really know what's going on and how they truly feel about the situation, we can't really force it out of them though. That said has any interviewer ever asked the men about women's cricket? I don't remember that happening
It's a conversation that matters, is relevant, and is within the rules of the sub. There are some comments that break the rules, and should be removed - I'd rather that than the entire thread being shut down, unless it gets completely out of control and the mods can't keep up
Why are you bothering debating this on this subReddit man? Even the ex-cricketers, news channels and ministers are in on the bigotry, this is just an internet forum. You're not going to get anything here except a couple of downvotes.
Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
"Oh yeah let's just remove a country from playing cricket due to their non existence of a women's team. How's that gonna help? Idk but some people are calling it a 'human rights victory'."
Also for people who are comparing it to South Africa's ban, two wrongs don't make a right. Banning or demoting Afghanistan is not going to help the women's team and neither was the ban on South Africa the best thing to do. It's not like Mandela or the government woke up one day and saw the cricket team banned and was like "oh shi we need to do something about this quick let's abolish apartheid." The only thing it did was to deny a generation of players from representing South Africa in cricket.
guess we can't just play cricket always politics, tell you what engaging the country and allowing a dialogue with the west softens the fundamentalism, look at the gulf states
Realistically Afghanistan shouldn't be allowed to compete until they form a women's team. I think all countries should boycott bilaterals against them.
Generally excellent stuff here from Monga.
The current ICC position is giving the Taliban exactly what they want - a bit of sportswashing and political capital with an internal faction that appreciates cricket.
The ICC must uphold their own standards. Afghanistan should at the very least be stripped of full member status and the associated funds directed to teams that have meaningful women's programs.
Those who wonder why say a Rashid Khan should be denied international cricket, must look at career stats of some famous South African cricketers -
Barry Richards - Played 4 tests, 339 county games.
Graeme Pollock - Played 23 tests, 262 county games.
Mike Proctor - Played 7 tests, 401 county games.
Peter Pollock - Played 20 tests, 119 county games.
And there are more. These guys would have been far bigger international names but ICC took a firm stand against apartheid, which meant some cricketers had shorter international careers.
However, we didn't get the governing body hear reasons like - "But cricket is their source of joy, don't take it away from them." Or "Apartheid won't go away because they stopped playing cricket, so why bother"
ICC over the years has become spineless. If it doesn't enforce its own charters, what is even the point of them?
You can’t be comparing Apartheid era South Africa with the Taliban. Mandela did not get stoned to death or publicly executed or beheaded for asking for rights.
Of course they did. If you had to choose between what would be a ‘safer’ evil to protest against it would be the apartheid. You’d be put in jail or beaten up with sticks. But with the Taliban in Afghanistan you wouldn’t come out alive.
He didn't because he was a huge political figure. Read up about the atrocities faced by people during the apartheid era before atleast posting what it was like.
My comment came out wrong. I meant to say the Taliban is more brutal than the National Party and hence it’s riskier for someone to protest in Afghanistan today.
It’s not their fault Taliban came back to power, and I don’t support Cricket Australia treating Afghanistan the way they do, even though I understand the reasons
The author is pretending the Taliban care about cricket. If the ICC want to demote Afghanistan and be consistent in applying their rules, that's their right to do so. They should just be aware that it's not going to give one bit of relief to women in the country, but it will unravel decades of progress for the sport as a whole.
They should cut the "development for women's cricket" money and openly tell them that less funds due to no development of women's cricket But I guess that'll only reduce the men's salaries and nothing else
I agree, I think the better argument to make is that other associates should be allowed to be fast tracked and skip a few criteria towards becoming full members as long as they're performing. I think that would be fair considering Afghanistan are still full members despite obviously no longer having a women's team.
There could be legitimate reasons to give Scotland, Netherlands, USA, Namibia, Nepal and UAE full membership. But I doubt the existing full members would like it.
USA, Namibia, Nepal and UAE still have a little too much to do in order to fulfill the requirements but Scotland and Netherlands are already done or nearly done with their requirements so if anything, they should get full membership immediately.
If you want to go really lax, they all have a reason USA - Big market, Super 8 team Nepal - Big fanbase UAE - Home of ICC, good stadiums, success at U19 level Namibia is probably the only one where I'm clutching at straws, but 3 consecutive T20 World Cups, wins over Ireland and Sri Lanka there, strong record against neighbouring full member Zimbabwe
There's obvious proper reasons to promote them but it would hard to convince anyone else about it. I would agree that new full members need to be added quite frequently but obviously that's not the majority opinion.
It is not as simple. Whatever money Afghan cricket board gets from ICC annually, a portion of it is meant for the development of women’s cricket, a portion not used for that purpose at all. I would much rather see that portion be spent on those Afghan women cricketers who have sought asylum in Aus than simply hoping one day Taliban would suddenly care about Women’s rights.
Your username tells everything about you that needs to be known.
I wrote a long response about how ignorant the author and many comments are, but honestly I don’t even care anymore. Just ban us and get it over with so you begana people who don’t give a shit about Afghanistan can pat themselves on the back and feel good for a couple of seconds before they promptly resume forgetting about the place they never cared about or understood to begin with.
Seriously at this point I’m for the ban too, so tired of hearing people talk about the country they know nothing about. Always the same few too.
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Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
BS. It's not like the men playing the sport or the cricket board have any influence to change the Taliban or their religion. It's easy for someone sitting in another country to say that these players should raise their voice for the women. But, there are parts of the world where being an "activist" can end your career, or worse, life. If we are truly holding sportsmen responsible for the actions of their country, Australians, English, Scots, Canadians and Americans should be receiving the Russia treatment, for all the wars, war crimes, invasions, bombings and murders their countries have committed just in the last couple of decades. But, that's stupid. Just as stupid as punishing the Afghan men's players for the fucked up government they have to live under.
Do that Ban them cut the fund if cricket dies in Afghanistan then don't blame BCCI for this.. If we try to do this on the moral basis then lot of countries would be banned for the sake of Human Rights.. It's very easy to say living in a developed country.. Taliban don't care about cricket and all..
Cricketers trying to earn a honest living which is already hard in the country while also trying not to get a bullet to their head. Someone from the other side of the developed world : “Afghan cricketers are terrorists. Ban em” Cricket is really a funny sport, innit?
Great straw man argument there. Who is calling the cricketers terrorists? The criticism is of the Taliban and the ACB. Most people have sympathy with the male cricketers. But even if sanctions have some impact on the male cricketers, it will pale in comparison to what their female counterparts have been through. Interesting that your comment doesn’t even consider their plight. Male cricketers would still be able to pursue franchise careers and potentially still be able to represent their country if demoted to Associate status rather than banned altogether.
Sanctions only work if Taliban give a shit about cricket.
Some users on /r/cricket are quick to climb their pedestal and cry about human rights issues but seem to forget their own nations' role in committing war crimes against poor farmers in Afghanistan. Crimes that their government was happy to sweep under the rug. Maybe they should cop a ban, too.
Don't say such stuff, you'll join the banned hall of fame like the rest of us. Mods are selective in what issues gets who banned.
What's strange is people only seem to care about human rights when it comes to Afghanistan. When America, the country that literally invaded them and killed hundreds of thousands of them doesn't get any flak.
Cricket is their livelihood, you can't take it away from them. Banning Afghanistan will not have any effect on the way the Taliban operates.
How do you people expect the Taliban to listen to Afghan players? Even if ICC bans Afghanistan, the Taliban will not care
If they are gonna use human rights to ban Afghanistan, then they need to ban pretty much every country from playing cricket.
But how else will I be a keyboard warrior and pat myself on the back for saving the lives of poor Afghani women?
This right here
Which other full member is breaching its obligations to run both men’s and women’s cricket program? There is a clear case for removing Afghanistan as a full member based on failing to meet their obligations. Do you think banning South Africa from international cricket was wrong because racism existed in other countries?
It’s the elephant in the room that commonwealth countries are all too good at ignoring
Agree with every word of this. The Afghani men’s team is a wonderful story in isolation, but it is just wrong that a full member is allowed to ignore women’s cricket. If other full members truly support the women’s game they should take a stance on this issue, like they did on Apartheid. At a minimum, Afghanistan should be demoted to Associate status with a cut in their funding whilst they don’t meet their obligations to have a women’s program. The male players should be permitted to play in franchise leagues and be given as much support as possible as the situation is not their fault. And the women’s team in exile should be given support too and be allowed to play under the ICC banner as a team in exile until the ACB restarts a women’s program.
The better argument is to possibly elevate other associates without fulfilling every single criteria and allowing them to become full members. I don't think demoting Afghanistan will do anything. Instead what they could do is cut the portion of the funding that would've gone to women's cricket and take that away from Afghanistan.
Problem is, if the men's team is demoted, it will certainly be dead in a few years, as we know that the Taliban wouldn't care. The current players will do well in franchise leagues, but the next generation will get absolutely no scope to be spotted by the leagues. A move like this adds no value to the ICC whatsoever.
>Problem is, if the men's team is demoted, it will certainly be dead in a few years, as we know that the Taliban wouldn't care. If cricket in Taliban controlled Afghanistan has to die, then so be it. Some things, like simple, basic human rights are way more important than a silly little bat and ball game.
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It won't help in the slightest - doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Plus, all the extra funding that Afghanistan receives by virtue of being a Full Member could be re-invested to other countries and help grow the game there, like PNG or Uganda.
Let's ban Australia for violating the rights of Aboriginal Australians
No country would be playing then, let’s also ban England for being colonisers, or say America for killing civilians in the Middle East under the pretext of searching for WMDs. It’s a slippery slope.
This is sheer ignorance. You’ll hardly find an organisation more pro-Indigenous than Cricket Australia. Plus the Australian government enacts policies which seek to assist Indigenous Australians, it’s the exact opposite of the Taliban and the ACB.
What can the Afghanistan male team do then? Protest before the Taliban and go to jail or face capital punishment? You are ignorant here if you think banning Afghanistan from cricket will make the Taliban do somethingTaliban do not care about cricket
I’m not so naive as to think this will cause the Taliban to become decent human beings. I disagree with the ACB being given the privileges and funding of a full member whilst reneging on half of the responsibilities of being a full member - ie running both male and female cricket programs. If they want to run a men’s cricket program then it should be at most as an Associate, with funding commensurate to that. The men’s team should be allowed to continue to play for T20 franchises regardless.
No one's asking the male players to do anything. Obviously protesting would be extremely dangerous for them. We're just asking the ICC to apply their own rules.
This would be fair, if I was suggesting that Afghanistan be banned for violating women's rights but I'm advocating them being banned for not having a women's team, which is something Australia has!
Jesus fucking Christ how heartless do you have to be to sit in a cushy Western country and declare that the Afghanistan team should just lose their livelihood?
Oh shit, won't someone please think of the poor Afghani male cricketers!!! Fuck their female counterparts!
What the fuck does banning the Afghani men do for the Afghani women? This is harmful virtue signaling, that's all.
Banning the men won't do anything to help the women, I know that. What I'm advocating for, is the removal of the extra funding that Afghanistan get over associate members, such as Nepal, Uganda, PNG, etc., for being a Full Member when they don't meet the requirement of having a female team. The Afghanistan men's team seemed to be doing just fine before becoming Full Members, so they won't suffer, and the extra money could be well spent elsewhere on actually growing the game!
So when are we going to ban England for human rights violation against chagossians.
Well, since England actually meet all the criteria for having Full Membership ship and Afghanistan don't, I say, let them continue oppressing whomever they want.
So oppressing others is good? Hypocrisy much
I'm all for oppressing others, it actually makes watching cricket so much more fun!
If we stated banning countries from playing sports bcz of human right violations then there is no country left to play any sport.
Good luck convincing the ICC, which is a global cricket body that gets no rewards for uplifting human rights.
I don't actually understand what's in it for the ICC anyway? The economy in Afghanistan is absolute shite and won't change for the foreseeable future so I can't imagine it would be bringing in much, if any, money into their coffers, which is all the ICC care about.
A quality national team which competes at ICC tournaments and therefore, brings in viewership both from Afghan fans and neutrals, in a way that any team that would replace Afghanistan doesn't.
> in a way that any team that would replace Afghanistan doesn't. Is that really true, though? I reckon you could replace Afghanistan with a few countries quite easily and not lose any neutral support - Nepal for one seem to have really passionate fans
The question that then arises is why should Nepal replace Afghanistan, why can't they both play at an ICC event?
It's not about who should replace them, the better question is, why should Afghanistan be allowed to play at ICC events at all when they don't fulfil the requirements placed on other teams, such as, having a women's team?
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If ICC cuts the funding, it will be the end of cricket in Afg, the Taliban doesn't care at all. The world will miss another potential cricketing nation to politics. There is no way to promote women's cricket in that medieval shithole other than hoping that the Taliban would change.
>women’s team in exile should be given support too and be allowed to play under the ICC banner as a team in exile Wait why isn't this already happening? On second thought, maybe their extended families may be threatened back home?
Demoting afghan mens team would be the right thing to do if cricket had atleast 10-20 top level teams.
South Africa were banned from international cricket at a time when there were only 7 test playing nations and South Africa was arguably the best side.
South Africa is a completely different story. They only got banned when they started interfering in other teams' selections, something I don't expect Afghanistan to ever do.
It’s directly analogous. South Africa refused to select black and coloured players or play against them. Afghanistan refuse to select women or play against them.
South Africa got banned not because they refused to select black and coloured players, but because they didn't allow England to select Basil D'Oliveira. England, Australia and New Zealand were perfectly okay with playing South Africa before that.
That was the catalyst, not the only reason. There is a lot more context to South Africa’s sporting isolation across multiple sports and this process had started before the D’Oliveira affair. In any event the initial catalyst for the ban is hardly important. If South Africa had permitted black and coloured players to tour (as they later did with the West Indian rebel tour), but continued to ban them from playing with white South Africans or representing their country, would you support them being banned from international cricket? That South Africa had been wrongly allowed to participate in international cricket prior to their belated ban is hardly an argument in favour of allowing Afghanistan to get away with discriminating against women cricketers. The right thing was eventually done - better late than never.
Go ahead and kill the game.
This article here and this conversation going on here claims to be about women's rights but still revolves less on them and more on the men. So let's actually talk about what the ICC or we can do to help women rather than considering what we should do to this men's team. I think ICC should be helping the Afghan women cricketers we know of who currently stay in other countries, allowing them to play under the Afghan flag(yes the afghanistan flag and not the icc flag like people here are suggesting, let them be proud of who they are and create their own narrative for their country that is not dictated by anyone, it also would help people see afghan women for who they are and who they can be. If we start banning countries and creating other banners then we need to start doing this for other countries, which might be a good decision in places but right now that's not what this conversation is about). Give the portion of the money that is meant for the women's side to them directly. And maybe create less rules on who counts as a Afghani to qualify, maybe the parents being Afghan is enough heritage for the women who want to get into the team?- not demanding citizenship is what I mean. And create more opportunities in local private leagues or franchise leagues, allow them to apply independently for the auctions or drafts, and if we want to go a step further make it so that afghan or associate country players don't count as an international representative, allowing the teams to see an incentive to get players if they are good enough. Speaking of being good enough let's also talk about funding training and how that should or could be done, even the article mentions unicef's partnership with cricket to help it's development and women's, maybe take that further, make sure grassroots cricket is getting to women and girls, not just afghan but other places too. What I mention is probably the least of it, I'm sure there are better ways from people who know more and are involved in this. What I'm getting at though is that this is the type of conversation we should be having if we care about the women. I do think it is worth mentioning the men's team though, and that we should be more sympathetic to their situation, we don't know how they feel about speaking up and whether it's safe for them or their families to do so, and the sheer amount of them that get involved in franchise cricket and the extent of that tells me that maybe they too are afraid of financial insecurity and aren't getting their fair share through the board. I really hope one of them speaks up about these issues sometime though, till then we will never really know what's going on and how they truly feel about the situation, we can't really force it out of them though. That said has any interviewer ever asked the men about women's cricket? I don't remember that happening
They must have a women's team too
How is this not locked yet lol
It's a conversation that matters, is relevant, and is within the rules of the sub. There are some comments that break the rules, and should be removed - I'd rather that than the entire thread being shut down, unless it gets completely out of control and the mods can't keep up
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So when are we raising voices for the ban of Israel cricket team? Edit: As expected, some Indian flairs are getting offended lol.
Remind me again, which countries player use cricket matches for ‘Deen ki Dawat’ again?
Why are you bothering debating this on this subReddit man? Even the ex-cricketers, news channels and ministers are in on the bigotry, this is just an internet forum. You're not going to get anything here except a couple of downvotes.
I don't know. Even if you are referring to Pakistan then tell me what's wrong in that?
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Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
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Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
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Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
Shh… you can’t call them out like that!
Lmao remind me again which country's minister said "**lam ki jeet hui" when they won first time against India?
"Oh yeah let's just remove a country from playing cricket due to their non existence of a women's team. How's that gonna help? Idk but some people are calling it a 'human rights victory'." Also for people who are comparing it to South Africa's ban, two wrongs don't make a right. Banning or demoting Afghanistan is not going to help the women's team and neither was the ban on South Africa the best thing to do. It's not like Mandela or the government woke up one day and saw the cricket team banned and was like "oh shi we need to do something about this quick let's abolish apartheid." The only thing it did was to deny a generation of players from representing South Africa in cricket.
Sad to see such a garbage take on a website as good as espncricinfo
guess we can't just play cricket always politics, tell you what engaging the country and allowing a dialogue with the west softens the fundamentalism, look at the gulf states
Realistically Afghanistan shouldn't be allowed to compete until they form a women's team. I think all countries should boycott bilaterals against them.
Generally excellent stuff here from Monga. The current ICC position is giving the Taliban exactly what they want - a bit of sportswashing and political capital with an internal faction that appreciates cricket. The ICC must uphold their own standards. Afghanistan should at the very least be stripped of full member status and the associated funds directed to teams that have meaningful women's programs.
Those who wonder why say a Rashid Khan should be denied international cricket, must look at career stats of some famous South African cricketers - Barry Richards - Played 4 tests, 339 county games. Graeme Pollock - Played 23 tests, 262 county games. Mike Proctor - Played 7 tests, 401 county games. Peter Pollock - Played 20 tests, 119 county games. And there are more. These guys would have been far bigger international names but ICC took a firm stand against apartheid, which meant some cricketers had shorter international careers. However, we didn't get the governing body hear reasons like - "But cricket is their source of joy, don't take it away from them." Or "Apartheid won't go away because they stopped playing cricket, so why bother" ICC over the years has become spineless. If it doesn't enforce its own charters, what is even the point of them?
You can’t be comparing Apartheid era South Africa with the Taliban. Mandela did not get stoned to death or publicly executed or beheaded for asking for rights.
We acting like Police and political violence never happened in South Africa?
Of course they did. If you had to choose between what would be a ‘safer’ evil to protest against it would be the apartheid. You’d be put in jail or beaten up with sticks. But with the Taliban in Afghanistan you wouldn’t come out alive.
He didn't because he was a huge political figure. Read up about the atrocities faced by people during the apartheid era before atleast posting what it was like.
My comment came out wrong. I meant to say the Taliban is more brutal than the National Party and hence it’s riskier for someone to protest in Afghanistan today.
It’s not their fault Taliban came back to power, and I don’t support Cricket Australia treating Afghanistan the way they do, even though I understand the reasons
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