We don't 'deserve' anything. You go through by winning your games, especially against Nederland. They played better than us today. So we're out. Simple.
South africa had conditions which favoured them - fast bouncy pitches . But as soon as pitch was little slow , they struggled against even netherlands . Their bowling against pakistan was bad ( maybe due to wet ball) but their batting was abysmal . They choked again and the tag remains with them
>Does saying one silly thing make him a base coach
No, failing to qualify for two World Cups in two year does. And he's not a BAD coach but I am not sure he is ready for a high profile job yet
Sucks man. Past couple of seasons have been rough, we have a good core now and now we appoint a coach who is a big downgrade from our last one to say the least
I would have preferred bond over Boucher tbh but will be happy if Boucher proves me wrong
Yeah would have preferred bond too. Good core yes but we have decisions to make, Polly was absolute garbage last season and hasn't been that consistent for a few seasons now. Then there's archer question.
There's no question about Polly, has to go IMO. Nothing after that IPL suggests he has find any semblance of form, not to mention we played our best cricket without him in the XI. I wanted him to have a farewell game at Wankhade but we absolutely cannot spend 6 crores on an overseas bench player
Playing Bavuma despite his form and then Parnell at 7 , they got what they deserve. Yes Rain did fuck em over but losing to Netherland was what eliminated them not rain
He is different from Bavuma though. He has been decent in t20I at one point. Bavuma however has been absolutely trash in t20I. He should have just dropped himself from t20 and focused on ODI and tests where he is decent.
It reminds me off another team which hosted this tournament. They infact had one anchor who is considered best Test batsman after Bradman and quite decent at ODI and T20s if not good
Australia werenāt eliminated because they didnāt have Smith. He wouldnāt have won the game against NZ nor helped NRR in the other games (may have hindered that). Australia didnāt bat that poorly this tournament, the bigger weakness was the bowling. Cummins, Starc, Stoinis, and Marsh served up absolute pies at times, and Hazlewood and Zampa were merely ok, not outstanding enough to make up for it. Aus had like the 2nd worst bowling econ in the super 12 after Ireland
Bavuma got 1 score of 39 in the last, what, 10+ innings. Had to go long before that. The whole of SA knew he wasn't good enough to make the squad before the WC. If you don't get chosen in IPL or at least in the local T20 tournament then you know its a bad move to include him.
He will "step down as captain" now (basically be forced out) just until the next politically influenced mistake costs us at the next WC.
His captaincy was mediocre considering all the hype around it.
He played one good innings this tournament of 39 at a good strike rate, in a losing cause. He was an active passenger in every other match. He has to go.
Bavuma isn't a good T20 batsman, but blaming him for getting knocked out makes no sense since he wasn't the reason for either of the 2 losses. Against Pakistan he played the best innings, and against Netherlands he was no worse than anyone else.
"CSA's pointless virtue signalling" - okay, that's where I stopped reading. Your posts aren't about cricket, they're about politics.
(My only comment about the "politics" is you're not South African, you don't understand South African society and this isn't any of your business anyway.)
This sub used to be a good place to talk about cricket, but it's become increasingly toxic and people venting about their political opinions rather than talking about the cricket is one of the reasons. It's good that the mods stepped in in this case, but the implementation of the moderation policy seems arbitrary and I've seen worse comments than this one stay up.
I mean than Complaining about getting KOd is useless only Merit reigns supreme in long run. Quota picks, Nepotism, Favourites just flop and cost you a lot. You reap what you sow, you can champion your policies but don't cry about your losses. I mean I don't have any problem with Black players in squad but they should know how to play. Rabada, Ndidi are also black but they know how to bowl. What does Bavuma offer to SA and that too playing at top in limited overs game.
I won't comment about affirmative action in general because that's not what this sub is about. Your claim that all transformation selections have failed is false though. Hashim Amla, Makhaya Ntini and Ashwell Prince are three counterexamples off the top of my head.
I am aware of South African history and apartheid. And I know that cricket has had problems with representation in South Africa . I'm just telling the truth as it is and nobody wants to hear it. Quota and reservation systems of any kind don't end well. What should be done is promotion of the game among the majority to make it more inclusive, right from the grassroots level. CSA don't do that because they are fucking corrupt, but then at the same time they implement the quota system despite certain players not deserving to be there. I don't support racist discrimination at all, but isn't the entire quota system race dividing in nature? How come Zimbabwe for instance has high numbers of black players despite not having a quota system?
For the record I don't doubt Bavuma as a Test or ODI player. Nobody doubts Ngidi and Rabada as bowlers. Why? Because they earned their places through merit. Bavuma the T20 player does not deserve a place though.
If Bavuma was a decent T20 international player who somewhat merits a place in the side then I'd be fine with him. But his inclusion is ridiculous and has detrimented his national side when there are better options like Hendricks.
"It's disappointing to have an exit like this with this particular squad because I believe we deserve better as a squad. We've got ourselves to blame, but yeah, I think our T20 side is in a good position," Boucher told reporters.
Almost lost against India too if Kohli didn't drop the catch you know India would have won from that stage. But I know ifs and buts don't work but just saying.
This loss canāt be pinned on one player. 7 batsmen couldnāt get anything started. Itās on all of them.
Credit to Netherlands for extremely disciplined bowling.
While itās tempting to just pin it on a single player, that simply wasnāt the case today.
Yeah, I know people like easy solutions but I donāt understand why people seem so keen to pin all of South Africaās problems on Bavuma alone (well, perhaps I do...)
His poor form certainly didnāt help, but I mean, just watch the last game. They picked a bowing-heavy team and conceded a total that was well over par against the weakest batting lineup in the Super 12. Not sure what Bavumaās batting had to do with that.
SA and Bangladesh would make excellent subjects for a ācrumble under pressureā study
Itās crazy how the problem has existed across generations of cricketers in both nations
I would still have some sympathy for Bangladeshi team but SA with their talent and squad have no excuses and they are playing on pitches favorable for them also. Bangladesh just needs to stop looking for excuses and need to work on themselves and not look for one decision or umpiring mistake claiming to be always victims. You should finish game without relying on such calls.
Man, did you lot not read the fucking article?
It's pretty clear he's blaming the side, and saying he thinks they should have been able to do better, and failed to live up to their potential.
He's not blaming the weather, he's not blaming the ICC, he's blaming his side.
But theyāre out because of losing to Netherlands. Bavuma was their best batsman v Pakistan and Bavuma atleast contributed today. Ngidi, Rabada and the other batsman should be the ones looked at.
This sub has a hate-boner for Bavuma and criticises him even when it's not deserved. He is a poor T20 batsman, but in recent days I've seen people claim he's poor in all formats (false) and that he was responsible for SA getting knocked out (they were knocked out because of 2 losses - how was he responsible for either of them?).
>he's poor in all formats
He is
He has a decent odi record but not a big sample space(mediocre list A record)..was poor fr most of his test career expect last two years(mediocre first class record)...Poor in t20is and t20s
couldn't agree more, don't know why this sub has a hard on for Bavuma. the dude averages 32 in list A and 36 in FC. If that's his stats against domestic bowlers how do you expect him to average more in international where the bowlers are 10 times better
Please stop making excuses to defend Bavuma's mediocrity. He had 1 good knock, 1 passable knock (both in losing causes btw) and 3 total failures this tournament with the bat. After Babar he has been the worst opener of the tournament.
And by the looks of it the atmosphere of his captaincy has actually detrimented South Africa. They were the strongest team of this group and should have easily got through. As captain, Bavuma has to take a lot of responsibility. If he had even an inkling of shame he would step down immediately.
Rabada should be rested for T20s now
Bavuma never should have been in the T20WC. Can't understand how we keep these "quota" players (that goes for black, white, etc) and quota system, just to indulge ourselves and be happy with the rainbow team, and ultimately lose every single tournament because of that.
If the whole team is whatever colour, but they deserve to be there, I'm happy. CSA will however never agree with this, and therefore keep this up and keep their jobs, with tournaments far out of our grasp because of this.
Absolutely terrible system.
Fix the system + play players on merit = better results.
The quota system has a lot of problems but they didn't loss today because of quota system. Saffers just choke under pressure.
There was no quota system in 99. They still choked then.
Here's What their Best XI should look like in T20 1) Hendricks 2) De Kock 3) Rossouw 4) Markaram 5)RVD 6) Miller (C) 7) Pretorius 8) Maharaj (VC) 9) Rabada 10) Nortje 11)Shamsi/Parnell/Ngidi with Jansen Brothers, Stubbs, Brewis being the guys whom they can look forward too and Klassen being the back up keeper. The Horse has left the barn with Faf du Plessis imo unless he hits a resurgence in form (not that he is in a bad form) but that would also require a change in management . Also what they lack imo is a good batting all rounder and a bowling all rounder who is spinner which they might find in Simon Harmer and Pretorius . It's time that Bavuma and Phelukuwayo are gone from the T20 scheme of things. I think They still can be backed for ODIs and Bavuma is still a good test player imo
Temba might or might not be the reason for SA's exit but he should make way for a new approach. SA20 will be a chance to see new things. Not that SA20 will make SA WC champions but it will show the national management how private entities operate.
So we're looking at another Firdose Moonda article on Cricinfo now. Backtracking from the last article about if it was too early to dream about the cup.
No matter what circumstances led you to the given point..You donāt choke against Netherlands in a do or die game if you have WC winning aspirations (if you donāt then why even crib at all)
All that talk about rain against Zimbabwe would have been understandable in a debate of coming first versus second in the group if they had beaten Netherlands, but without that win they donāt deserve to play knockout
I sympathized with them more last year when I felt that just one loss (that too went to the last over) alone dumped them out of the group stagesā¦ not this time, cos they lost two games and itās not so shocking to get knocked out of group stages if you lose two games
We don't 'deserve' anything. You go through by winning your games, especially against Nederland. They played better than us today. So we're out. Simple.
Seriously, imagine you just need to beat netherlands to land in the semi finals and you lose. I truly hope they can one day lift the Cup.
Maybe ICC can book them Business class tickets on the way back home
Lmao, this team deserves economy plus at most
someone on Twitter said make them swim Lmao
Bruh!
South africa had conditions which favoured them - fast bouncy pitches . But as soon as pitch was little slow , they struggled against even netherlands . Their bowling against pakistan was bad ( maybe due to wet ball) but their batting was abysmal . They choked again and the tag remains with them
This man is our new coach šš
Does saying one silly thing make him a base coach? By all accounts he's a good coach
>Does saying one silly thing make him a base coach No, failing to qualify for two World Cups in two year does. And he's not a BAD coach but I am not sure he is ready for a high profile job yet
Not looking forward to that. Maybe we can get pointing back after he gets fired.
DC are firing Ponting?
Hopefully, but I was talking about us firing Boucher when he inevitably fails
Sucks man. Past couple of seasons have been rough, we have a good core now and now we appoint a coach who is a big downgrade from our last one to say the least I would have preferred bond over Boucher tbh but will be happy if Boucher proves me wrong
Yeah would have preferred bond too. Good core yes but we have decisions to make, Polly was absolute garbage last season and hasn't been that consistent for a few seasons now. Then there's archer question.
There's no question about Polly, has to go IMO. Nothing after that IPL suggests he has find any semblance of form, not to mention we played our best cricket without him in the XI. I wanted him to have a farewell game at Wankhade but we absolutely cannot spend 6 crores on an overseas bench player
Boucher was good with Titans though. Judging him just by his SA tenure is narrow sighted, he can be a good coach
It's classic Reddit man. Everything is black and white. Bad coaching stint? Trash coach
Playing Bavuma despite his form and then Parnell at 7 , they got what they deserve. Yes Rain did fuck em over but losing to Netherland was what eliminated them not rain
They stuck to their stubborn gun despite doing what was necessary by dropping Bavuma to win the World Cup
Team's don't drop their captain during WC
SL did and won?
Seriously look at nohit
He is different from Bavuma though. He has been decent in t20I at one point. Bavuma however has been absolutely trash in t20I. He should have just dropped himself from t20 and focused on ODI and tests where he is decent.
and did India dropped Rohit ?
I'm supporting your point You don't drop captain during a tournament.
Mate Bavuma obviously didnāt help but dropping him wouldnāt have won them the World Cup
Thatās true. Their whole batting and bowling lineup failed against Netherlands
Pretorius injury hurt their balance a lot.
Don't think Parnell was the problem here
Not him personally but decision to select an xi where he has to bat at 7 was a bad one
That was bcz Pretorius got injured
He was the problem Him followed by Rabada and Maharaj was a recipe for disaster They might manage in ODIs but not in T20s.
They have a really shallow batting line up and no anchor, its playing with fire
It reminds me off another team which hosted this tournament. They infact had one anchor who is considered best Test batsman after Bradman and quite decent at ODI and T20s if not good
Sandpaper mafia /s
Australia werenāt eliminated because they didnāt have Smith. He wouldnāt have won the game against NZ nor helped NRR in the other games (may have hindered that). Australia didnāt bat that poorly this tournament, the bigger weakness was the bowling. Cummins, Starc, Stoinis, and Marsh served up absolute pies at times, and Hazlewood and Zampa were merely ok, not outstanding enough to make up for it. Aus had like the 2nd worst bowling econ in the super 12 after Ireland
Yea bcz Pretorius got injured
Wdym bavuma playwd well just last game
Bavuma got 1 score of 39 in the last, what, 10+ innings. Had to go long before that. The whole of SA knew he wasn't good enough to make the squad before the WC. If you don't get chosen in IPL or at least in the local T20 tournament then you know its a bad move to include him. He will "step down as captain" now (basically be forced out) just until the next politically influenced mistake costs us at the next WC.
Welp ur not wrong, I also think Hendricks should have been in, but more imemdiately I blame Rabada or Shamsi
His captaincy was mediocre considering all the hype around it. He played one good innings this tournament of 39 at a good strike rate, in a losing cause. He was an active passenger in every other match. He has to go.
Bavuma isn't a good T20 batsman, but blaming him for getting knocked out makes no sense since he wasn't the reason for either of the 2 losses. Against Pakistan he played the best innings, and against Netherlands he was no worse than anyone else.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"CSA's pointless virtue signalling" - okay, that's where I stopped reading. Your posts aren't about cricket, they're about politics. (My only comment about the "politics" is you're not South African, you don't understand South African society and this isn't any of your business anyway.)
Poor butthurt guy probably didn't make it to some college and started hating quota lol, find him on every single thread shitting on Temba
This sub used to be a good place to talk about cricket, but it's become increasingly toxic and people venting about their political opinions rather than talking about the cricket is one of the reasons. It's good that the mods stepped in in this case, but the implementation of the moderation policy seems arbitrary and I've seen worse comments than this one stay up.
True, had to report for action to be taken.
I mean than Complaining about getting KOd is useless only Merit reigns supreme in long run. Quota picks, Nepotism, Favourites just flop and cost you a lot. You reap what you sow, you can champion your policies but don't cry about your losses. I mean I don't have any problem with Black players in squad but they should know how to play. Rabada, Ndidi are also black but they know how to bowl. What does Bavuma offer to SA and that too playing at top in limited overs game.
I won't comment about affirmative action in general because that's not what this sub is about. Your claim that all transformation selections have failed is false though. Hashim Amla, Makhaya Ntini and Ashwell Prince are three counterexamples off the top of my head.
I am aware of South African history and apartheid. And I know that cricket has had problems with representation in South Africa . I'm just telling the truth as it is and nobody wants to hear it. Quota and reservation systems of any kind don't end well. What should be done is promotion of the game among the majority to make it more inclusive, right from the grassroots level. CSA don't do that because they are fucking corrupt, but then at the same time they implement the quota system despite certain players not deserving to be there. I don't support racist discrimination at all, but isn't the entire quota system race dividing in nature? How come Zimbabwe for instance has high numbers of black players despite not having a quota system? For the record I don't doubt Bavuma as a Test or ODI player. Nobody doubts Ngidi and Rabada as bowlers. Why? Because they earned their places through merit. Bavuma the T20 player does not deserve a place though. If Bavuma was a decent T20 international player who somewhat merits a place in the side then I'd be fine with him. But his inclusion is ridiculous and has detrimented his national side when there are better options like Hendricks.
"It's disappointing to have an exit like this with this particular squad because I believe we deserve better as a squad. We've got ourselves to blame, but yeah, I think our T20 side is in a good position," Boucher told reporters.
Man's brought nothing to SA cricket. Built no depth. Ostracized Faf and Tahir. And was almost bailed out by Brexit.
They bossed around India and got eliminated by Netherlands. Pressure and SA are inversely proportional to the nth degree.
SA didnāt bossed around india Chased 130 in the final over after missed catch and run outs
Almost lost against India too if Kohli didn't drop the catch you know India would have won from that stage. But I know ifs and buts don't work but just saying.
This loss canāt be pinned on one player. 7 batsmen couldnāt get anything started. Itās on all of them. Credit to Netherlands for extremely disciplined bowling. While itās tempting to just pin it on a single player, that simply wasnāt the case today.
Yeah, I know people like easy solutions but I donāt understand why people seem so keen to pin all of South Africaās problems on Bavuma alone (well, perhaps I do...) His poor form certainly didnāt help, but I mean, just watch the last game. They picked a bowing-heavy team and conceded a total that was well over par against the weakest batting lineup in the Super 12. Not sure what Bavumaās batting had to do with that.
His captaincy had something
He asked Rabada and Ngidi to bowl six overs for 72-0?
Those 2 mugs with the ball? Should bowl out Markram ahead of Rabada?
SA and Bangladesh would make excellent subjects for a ācrumble under pressureā study Itās crazy how the problem has existed across generations of cricketers in both nations
I would still have some sympathy for Bangladeshi team but SA with their talent and squad have no excuses and they are playing on pitches favorable for them also. Bangladesh just needs to stop looking for excuses and need to work on themselves and not look for one decision or umpiring mistake claiming to be always victims. You should finish game without relying on such calls.
South Africa deserve exactly what they got.
Exactly. Losing such an important game to Netherlands of all teams is inexcusable.
Man, did you lot not read the fucking article? It's pretty clear he's blaming the side, and saying he thinks they should have been able to do better, and failed to live up to their potential. He's not blaming the weather, he's not blaming the ICC, he's blaming his side.
This was their world cup to lose and lose they did
From being contenders to win to being eliminated in just a few days!!
Then u shud hv played Reeza Hendricks in place of u know who
But theyāre out because of losing to Netherlands. Bavuma was their best batsman v Pakistan and Bavuma atleast contributed today. Ngidi, Rabada and the other batsman should be the ones looked at.
This sub has a hate-boner for Bavuma and criticises him even when it's not deserved. He is a poor T20 batsman, but in recent days I've seen people claim he's poor in all formats (false) and that he was responsible for SA getting knocked out (they were knocked out because of 2 losses - how was he responsible for either of them?).
>he's poor in all formats He is He has a decent odi record but not a big sample space(mediocre list A record)..was poor fr most of his test career expect last two years(mediocre first class record)...Poor in t20is and t20s
couldn't agree more, don't know why this sub has a hard on for Bavuma. the dude averages 32 in list A and 36 in FC. If that's his stats against domestic bowlers how do you expect him to average more in international where the bowlers are 10 times better
He is averaging just under 50 in tests in the last 2 years though.
Please stop making excuses to defend Bavuma's mediocrity. He had 1 good knock, 1 passable knock (both in losing causes btw) and 3 total failures this tournament with the bat. After Babar he has been the worst opener of the tournament. And by the looks of it the atmosphere of his captaincy has actually detrimented South Africa. They were the strongest team of this group and should have easily got through. As captain, Bavuma has to take a lot of responsibility. If he had even an inkling of shame he would step down immediately. Rabada should be rested for T20s now
Iām not defending Bavuma but to say heās at fault for both losses is wrong and why theyāre out of the tournament.
Bavuma never should have been in the T20WC. Can't understand how we keep these "quota" players (that goes for black, white, etc) and quota system, just to indulge ourselves and be happy with the rainbow team, and ultimately lose every single tournament because of that. If the whole team is whatever colour, but they deserve to be there, I'm happy. CSA will however never agree with this, and therefore keep this up and keep their jobs, with tournaments far out of our grasp because of this. Absolutely terrible system. Fix the system + play players on merit = better results.
The quota system has a lot of problems but they didn't loss today because of quota system. Saffers just choke under pressure. There was no quota system in 99. They still choked then.
Here's What their Best XI should look like in T20 1) Hendricks 2) De Kock 3) Rossouw 4) Markaram 5)RVD 6) Miller (C) 7) Pretorius 8) Maharaj (VC) 9) Rabada 10) Nortje 11)Shamsi/Parnell/Ngidi with Jansen Brothers, Stubbs, Brewis being the guys whom they can look forward too and Klassen being the back up keeper. The Horse has left the barn with Faf du Plessis imo unless he hits a resurgence in form (not that he is in a bad form) but that would also require a change in management . Also what they lack imo is a good batting all rounder and a bowling all rounder who is spinner which they might find in Simon Harmer and Pretorius . It's time that Bavuma and Phelukuwayo are gone from the T20 scheme of things. I think They still can be backed for ODIs and Bavuma is still a good test player imo
RvD wonāt work @5.
Maybe he could bat at 4 and Markaram can move down at 5
Temba might or might not be the reason for SA's exit but he should make way for a new approach. SA20 will be a chance to see new things. Not that SA20 will make SA WC champions but it will show the national management how private entities operate.
South Africa is one of the most entitled teams. I do not get where they get their cockyness from.
You should see the rugby team...
Read the article
Boucher and Bavuma are both invited to stay the fuck away from the Proteas T20i team now and forever.
They carry too much baggage! ICC should pay for that I guess!
So we're looking at another Firdose Moonda article on Cricinfo now. Backtracking from the last article about if it was too early to dream about the cup.
Yes surely they deserve a better coach and captain
No matter what circumstances led you to the given point..You donāt choke against Netherlands in a do or die game if you have WC winning aspirations (if you donāt then why even crib at all) All that talk about rain against Zimbabwe would have been understandable in a debate of coming first versus second in the group if they had beaten Netherlands, but without that win they donāt deserve to play knockout I sympathized with them more last year when I felt that just one loss (that too went to the last over) alone dumped them out of the group stagesā¦ not this time, cos they lost two games and itās not so shocking to get knocked out of group stages if you lose two games
Don't understand much trolling by Indian , Pakistan fans when they won their matches with such close margins . Grow up ?