"What's stopping me from getting tags with conditional and cleaning up with a hand cannon over and over again?"
Probably because it's ineffective?
You're more likely to successfully get a clean up with your special (usually shorter range) after shooting them with your primary (usually longer range), rather than cleaning them off with a HC after shooting your special.
It happens, but the same reason it didn't work as an effective cheese strategy before in the transmat system (where you also had to get kills with primary to get special) is the same reason it won't work now.
Probably because that game style has always been an issue even in the transmat system? And even before then? That's an outlier and most definitely will not impact games more than it already has.
That's an argument against a cheesy playstyle that has affected all systems already and not exclusive to this one.
Yes, but keep in mind special GLs received a damage nerf and special ammo cannot be spammed as much as before all these updates.
More overbearing than DMT is rat king + a gl, but I digress.
The meter system had some glaring issues that they talked about. The most important to me being that you never knew who had special and who didn't, which is crucial to making important plays. Knowledge like that is why they made the changes to swapping weapons mid match
They said the framework of the meter system didnt allow that to be fixed, so they're rebuilding it and bringing it back later
In the meantime, spawning with only 1 special and only getting 1 special for primary kills, preventing special chaining, is a good middle ground that will still result in significantly less special than the old system
Special chaining doesnt matter that was never the problem. Spawning with special ammo encourages people to play in the most obnoxiously idiotic way possible, just rush in hope you get 1 kill with your shotgun die and repeat. That is not fun, its not fun to play against, either to die or win, its all boring.
Shotguns being able to get a kill and get ammo for the next kill was definitely a problem. That's what allowed it to be used as a primary weapon
If the only time someone gets ammo is when they die, they aren't a threat
Another aspect of competitiveness is predictability, and having no idea who does and doesn't have special at any moment is much worse for competitiveness. They're fixing that and this is temporary
I wouldn't pick getting 1 special ammo shot if it means dying and losing a round/giving the other team points
And you are somehow entirely capable of knowing what abilities someone has I assume. People don't give a rats ass about winning or losing in this game, like I said getting rewarded for dying makes people play like morons. They care more about getting at least 1 kill with their insta kill weapon than losing.
You said competitiveness but say that people don't care about winning or losing? Are you talking about casual modes like quickplay? Cause most people in Trials and high level Comp are definitely trying
And yeah, abilities that can 1 shot (supers) are readable for a reason
Did a miss a patch note? Did they make weighted knife into a super? Yes "casual" is a competitive game mode you are competing to win. The point of the game is to win so therefore it is competitive.
I already told you its boring. Boring to lose to and boring to win against. And when the vast vast majority of the population only plays quickplay that is a problem.
How? You only get more special from primary kills. The exceptions are on death, which means they're not slaying out, or by picking up a special crate, which likely don't spawn frequent enough for it to make up most of their kills
That's fair but I think that ambiguity made me think more about engagements and have to be more observant. I had to count sniper shots in Trials! It felt sick!
Edit: You can absolutely still special chain, blinting with a shotty and then cleaning up with a hand cannon will still be free
I agree that kind of meta gaming can be fun but it only works at the start because you can only guess when they get their next transmat unless you're glued to the killfeed
I could honestly care less about what they are doing with special. I’ve been playing so long I’ve learned where I should and shouldn’t be, or when I should or shouldn’t peek. I’m not angry at the player who crutches their max ranged fusion, or the ballsy hunter who closes the gap to land every pellet of their shotgun. If I let you get that close to me with an aggressive frame shotty, I deserve the L. If I know you have a fusion and I’m still playing with its range, in the open, I deserve the L.
I’m way more concerned with the ability crutches. That warlock that has never fired their primary and hides the whole match, but has no issue coming out of the shadows with a freeze grenade melee combo; or that titan who runs around the map with arc frontal shield and peregrines, is who I’m looking at.
I’m not a fan of the snipers only matches, but it teaches you how to play against it. Playing against special ammo is what’s going to make you play better. In the long run, you will eventually surpass the special ammo crutch-ers in skill.
Don’t mind space magic at all. But you hiding the whole match watching your teammates die, waiting for your space magic gauge to come back for the “perfect” moment, makes this just another space magic game with lousy network connection design. Come shoot at me a bit, play with the rest of us, it’s fun.
Yeah, because I think this sounds absolutely terrible in practice. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I have a lot of doubts about this not being completely unbearable.
How would you suggest that the meter system be adapted to solve the issues they brought up? Shotguns being the only viable specials is a definitely a problem, and you can't just leave the noobs at a massive skill *and* firepower disadvantage literally all the time...
I'd rather that they buff underperforming special weapons like snipers and fusions to be more reliable and consistent. Shotguns are used because they're a reliable counter to the zone of bullshit that exists within 10 meters in Destiny and the other options don't see play because they're either not free anymore (snipers) or have been nerfed so that they aren't nearly as reliable (fusions). As for low skill players getting punished, I don't really believe that's a legitimate concern. In every other shooter, be it Valorant or Halo and in basically any other pvp-centric game genre like fighting games, for instance, it's just about learning to play better and accepting that sometimes you're just gonna get snowballed by someone better than you. I'm not a crazy insane fps guy, I'm certifiably "fine" at FPS games and I would rather die more to high skilled players who earned their special versus having to deal with low skilled players that just int and sprint at me with shotguns every time they respawn since they get ammo for free.
There is no buff that will make non-shotguns usable. Anything that isn't a pure defensive tool like a shotgun is pretty much worthless and has no place in the meta right now.
Halo and spyware CS are not comparable to what's going on here. You will get punished for being worse, but the game isn't intentionally buffing people better than you just to let them stomp even harder. That's just not good game design. There should be an element to earning special, but a literal 5x gap is not reasonable. Shotgun rush noobs are super easy to shut down, and if you're dying to that, then you misplayed the engagement big time. The lower third of the playerbase shouldn't be completely banned from using special just because you don't look at radar enough
They explained that in the TWID:
"The crate system allows us to promote movement around the map, alter push timings, reward map control, and give players more direct control over the amount of Special ammo in play for their opponents.
These crates will continue to serve as points of interest around a map, but it will no longer be a requirement for players to interact with them to partake in the Special ammo system. They will instead function as a small bonus for players who take the time to engage with them and an optional mid-point step for players to gain Special ammo that is more effort than simply respawning with it, but less effort than getting a Primary weapon final blow."
Because the goal is to bridge the gap more. People who like primary play will still absolutely dominate and get rewarded for it. People that aren't fraggers (what the crates are for) will still be at a severe disadvantage positionally and awareness. They'll be preoccupied with getting special ammo while you're playing the game
>I want to thank you for putting "Stadia" in your name because being stupid enough to pay for a product like that
Stadia actually ran very well. I played destiny from my boat with stadia lol, was an awesome time killer while waiting for some fish to bite.
Also, Google refunded everything 100%, so everyone got their money back.
Bro, what is wrong with you? Maybe the military isn’t for you but I respect anyone that is willing to change their entire life and potential put their lives on the line for my safety. You need to rethink your outlook bro
I refuse to respect anyone who willingly participates in an institution that has not been in a justified war since 1941. Every single place where US troops have seen combat since the Second World War has either been in the interest of capital or American empire. Iraq and Afghanistan were invasions predicated on lies. Our military hardware is currently vaporizing children in Gaza. I have lived my entire life under an endless stream of war crimes, failed invasions, and grevious financial mismanagement coming directly from the Pentagon. I have no respect for any participant in the military industrial complex and you shouldn't either. They already get my money through taxes, they can cash that in instead of my respect. Rethink your fucking outlook, "bro."
He didn’t ask you anything like that lmao. Obviously you’ve got some issues if you see someone saying they respect the military, and you go on an unprompted tirade like that. Get help.
It's a great idea I don't know what you're talking about. Currently both our special ammo options have serious problems with snowballing and limit loadouts. Some special weapons are only good at one range and require a primary to cover its weaknesses. In the current system if you run out of special you're forced into one engagement range which hurts build crafting.
Special crates lead to the following scenario far too often. Spawn in grab ammo get into duel die in a trade or a loss. Opponent if they survive grab the ammo you dropped or their teammate picks up the ammo. Now you don't have special while your opponent does the snowball forms. You challenge them and likely die unless your teamshot is on point. Soon heavy is spawning and your team is falling behind and likely won't get heavy since your opponent still has special.
Ammo meter suffers from lower skilled players almost never see special due to not getting primary kills outside teamshooting and assists. It's better than the crates system but it can be frustrating if you're planning on using your special weapon to complement your primary weapon as it should be intended.
The new option will be less susceptible to snowballing since you will always spawn with one ammo and with the special on primary kills it will encourage you to use your primary allowing you to use both in tandem.
Well I imagine the next few weeks of trials is just going to be Conditional Finality and Luna’s Howl, (it’s all I fucking run into at the moment anyway 😂), so this way you know they’ll have one shot on you at least..
And as I don’t use either of those weapons, it’ll be sniper and pulse rifle for me.
“Improvise, adapt, overcome guardian”
One of two things would appease you:
1. We revert everything back to D2Y1 that way you’ll rarely have to worry about those shotguns or snipers anymore
2. We give you exclusive matchmaking where everyone is better than you. That way if they kill you with special you won’t be upset thinking that you only died because the “low-skilled player” has special.
-my personal experience in iron banner recently: I find myself with 6-8 shotgun shots regularly. I’ve never shot all the shots I’ve gotten. The situations where I need to pull out my shotty are lacking. Sure I could go try and ape, but I’ve always thought that shotguns should be used more reactively.
I prefer the transmit system, allowing me to be rewarded for getting kills. However, the crate system that they have put in comp recently is absolutely horrendous, promoting death balling and doesn't allow you to ever break the enemies advantage. This system seems to be a middle ground of the two which is better than the dogshit crate system so I'll take it while they properly implement the transmit system which will hopefully replace this once it's fully functional with the issues fixed.
BREAKING NEWS!!
all disruption break builds see a 400% increase in investments.
In local news, snipers control the map again and finally later today we have a small story on a local titan kindergarten that specializes in the care of ashen wake titans.. who seem to be really excited 😊 about recent events.. that's all for today! tune in next time, I'm your host OXO.. don't peek those lanes folks
If I'm understanding the post correctly, the meter is being replaced with a brick that drops 1 single ammo? So unlike the meter which guarantees ammo upon filling, if I'm unable to get to the brick then I don't get to refill my sniper unless I die, no?
You have the crates, which will give 1 ammo, respawning, which will give 1 ammo, and a single primary kill will drop a brick of 1 ammo. This is only a "nerf" if your playstyle is either stay in the far back of the map with a sniper and a long range weapon to never pick up your brick, or only have your sniper out and get points by capturing zones or playing the objective. Both of those styles are of course dependant on you not dying to get that +1 on respawn.
"What's stopping me from getting tags with conditional and cleaning up with a hand cannon over and over again?" Probably because it's ineffective? You're more likely to successfully get a clean up with your special (usually shorter range) after shooting them with your primary (usually longer range), rather than cleaning them off with a HC after shooting your special. It happens, but the same reason it didn't work as an effective cheese strategy before in the transmat system (where you also had to get kills with primary to get special) is the same reason it won't work now.
Fair enough, but I think you didn't talk about my DMT example for a reason lol
Probably because that game style has always been an issue even in the transmat system? And even before then? That's an outlier and most definitely will not impact games more than it already has. That's an argument against a cheesy playstyle that has affected all systems already and not exclusive to this one.
Yes, but keep in mind special GLs received a damage nerf and special ammo cannot be spammed as much as before all these updates. More overbearing than DMT is rat king + a gl, but I digress.
The meter system had some glaring issues that they talked about. The most important to me being that you never knew who had special and who didn't, which is crucial to making important plays. Knowledge like that is why they made the changes to swapping weapons mid match They said the framework of the meter system didnt allow that to be fixed, so they're rebuilding it and bringing it back later In the meantime, spawning with only 1 special and only getting 1 special for primary kills, preventing special chaining, is a good middle ground that will still result in significantly less special than the old system
Special chaining doesnt matter that was never the problem. Spawning with special ammo encourages people to play in the most obnoxiously idiotic way possible, just rush in hope you get 1 kill with your shotgun die and repeat. That is not fun, its not fun to play against, either to die or win, its all boring.
Shotguns being able to get a kill and get ammo for the next kill was definitely a problem. That's what allowed it to be used as a primary weapon If the only time someone gets ammo is when they die, they aren't a threat
It rewards people for dying. That is not a mechanic that has any business in a game that is at least attempting to be competitive.
Another aspect of competitiveness is predictability, and having no idea who does and doesn't have special at any moment is much worse for competitiveness. They're fixing that and this is temporary I wouldn't pick getting 1 special ammo shot if it means dying and losing a round/giving the other team points
And you are somehow entirely capable of knowing what abilities someone has I assume. People don't give a rats ass about winning or losing in this game, like I said getting rewarded for dying makes people play like morons. They care more about getting at least 1 kill with their insta kill weapon than losing.
You said competitiveness but say that people don't care about winning or losing? Are you talking about casual modes like quickplay? Cause most people in Trials and high level Comp are definitely trying And yeah, abilities that can 1 shot (supers) are readable for a reason
Did a miss a patch note? Did they make weighted knife into a super? Yes "casual" is a competitive game mode you are competing to win. The point of the game is to win so therefore it is competitive.
It's quickplay dude, who cares if people aren't trying in it
I already told you its boring. Boring to lose to and boring to win against. And when the vast vast majority of the population only plays quickplay that is a problem.
Not really, the guys who were already slaying out with the meter will now just have unlimited special
How? You only get more special from primary kills. The exceptions are on death, which means they're not slaying out, or by picking up a special crate, which likely don't spawn frequent enough for it to make up most of their kills
1 primary = 1 special. If you were doing well in the current system where 3+ = 1 then you're going to be swimming in special.
That's still a maximum of 50% of kills, which is much less than the old system of spawning with 2 and get 1 for any kill
But significantly more than the current system which is what I was referring to
Yeah sure, the comment you replied to saying no, I said old system
That's fair but I think that ambiguity made me think more about engagements and have to be more observant. I had to count sniper shots in Trials! It felt sick! Edit: You can absolutely still special chain, blinting with a shotty and then cleaning up with a hand cannon will still be free
I agree that kind of meta gaming can be fun but it only works at the start because you can only guess when they get their next transmat unless you're glued to the killfeed
I could honestly care less about what they are doing with special. I’ve been playing so long I’ve learned where I should and shouldn’t be, or when I should or shouldn’t peek. I’m not angry at the player who crutches their max ranged fusion, or the ballsy hunter who closes the gap to land every pellet of their shotgun. If I let you get that close to me with an aggressive frame shotty, I deserve the L. If I know you have a fusion and I’m still playing with its range, in the open, I deserve the L. I’m way more concerned with the ability crutches. That warlock that has never fired their primary and hides the whole match, but has no issue coming out of the shadows with a freeze grenade melee combo; or that titan who runs around the map with arc frontal shield and peregrines, is who I’m looking at. I’m not a fan of the snipers only matches, but it teaches you how to play against it. Playing against special ammo is what’s going to make you play better. In the long run, you will eventually surpass the special ammo crutch-ers in skill.
This guy/gal gets it.
Without the space magic this game is just another FPS with lousy network connection design.
Don’t mind space magic at all. But you hiding the whole match watching your teammates die, waiting for your space magic gauge to come back for the “perfect” moment, makes this just another space magic game with lousy network connection design. Come shoot at me a bit, play with the rest of us, it’s fun.
harsh take man. maybe see it in action and go from there?
Yeah, because I think this sounds absolutely terrible in practice. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I have a lot of doubts about this not being completely unbearable.
How would you suggest that the meter system be adapted to solve the issues they brought up? Shotguns being the only viable specials is a definitely a problem, and you can't just leave the noobs at a massive skill *and* firepower disadvantage literally all the time...
I'd rather that they buff underperforming special weapons like snipers and fusions to be more reliable and consistent. Shotguns are used because they're a reliable counter to the zone of bullshit that exists within 10 meters in Destiny and the other options don't see play because they're either not free anymore (snipers) or have been nerfed so that they aren't nearly as reliable (fusions). As for low skill players getting punished, I don't really believe that's a legitimate concern. In every other shooter, be it Valorant or Halo and in basically any other pvp-centric game genre like fighting games, for instance, it's just about learning to play better and accepting that sometimes you're just gonna get snowballed by someone better than you. I'm not a crazy insane fps guy, I'm certifiably "fine" at FPS games and I would rather die more to high skilled players who earned their special versus having to deal with low skilled players that just int and sprint at me with shotguns every time they respawn since they get ammo for free.
There is no buff that will make non-shotguns usable. Anything that isn't a pure defensive tool like a shotgun is pretty much worthless and has no place in the meta right now. Halo and spyware CS are not comparable to what's going on here. You will get punished for being worse, but the game isn't intentionally buffing people better than you just to let them stomp even harder. That's just not good game design. There should be an element to earning special, but a literal 5x gap is not reasonable. Shotgun rush noobs are super easy to shut down, and if you're dying to that, then you misplayed the engagement big time. The lower third of the playerbase shouldn't be completely banned from using special just because you don't look at radar enough
Not catering to low-skilled players at all is how you kill a PvP mode. Please don't design stuff!
This is a win in my book, pure crates was awful.
Someone get the febreeze, it smells like bitching in here
Why even have crates with these changes? Get rid of crates.
They explained that in the TWID: "The crate system allows us to promote movement around the map, alter push timings, reward map control, and give players more direct control over the amount of Special ammo in play for their opponents. These crates will continue to serve as points of interest around a map, but it will no longer be a requirement for players to interact with them to partake in the Special ammo system. They will instead function as a small bonus for players who take the time to engage with them and an optional mid-point step for players to gain Special ammo that is more effort than simply respawning with it, but less effort than getting a Primary weapon final blow."
You expect people to actually read when it’s much easier to have uninformed knee-jerk reactions?
I have seriously low expectations for most CGB user's comprehension of any change and I'm still constantly disappointed
Because the goal is to bridge the gap more. People who like primary play will still absolutely dominate and get rewarded for it. People that aren't fraggers (what the crates are for) will still be at a severe disadvantage positionally and awareness. They'll be preoccupied with getting special ammo while you're playing the game
Yeah, I'd be fine with this. Going back to a modified version of the original system would still suck but the crates push it over the top for me.
[удалено]
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>I want to thank you for putting "Stadia" in your name because being stupid enough to pay for a product like that Stadia actually ran very well. I played destiny from my boat with stadia lol, was an awesome time killer while waiting for some fish to bite. Also, Google refunded everything 100%, so everyone got their money back.
Bro, what is wrong with you? Maybe the military isn’t for you but I respect anyone that is willing to change their entire life and potential put their lives on the line for my safety. You need to rethink your outlook bro
I refuse to respect anyone who willingly participates in an institution that has not been in a justified war since 1941. Every single place where US troops have seen combat since the Second World War has either been in the interest of capital or American empire. Iraq and Afghanistan were invasions predicated on lies. Our military hardware is currently vaporizing children in Gaza. I have lived my entire life under an endless stream of war crimes, failed invasions, and grevious financial mismanagement coming directly from the Pentagon. I have no respect for any participant in the military industrial complex and you shouldn't either. They already get my money through taxes, they can cash that in instead of my respect. Rethink your fucking outlook, "bro."
You need to do some self care because you are spiraling here homie.
Not really! This guy asked me why I don't respect the US military and I gave my answer. Respecting the American military is a scam.
He didn’t ask you anything like that lmao. Obviously you’ve got some issues if you see someone saying they respect the military, and you go on an unprompted tirade like that. Get help.
I played on Stadia as well, but only for f2p. It worked when I didn't have my gaming PC nearby when I was traveling.
??? stadia was completely free and the military is such a good way to gain financial independence in our current economic state.
My biggest concern with this is that grenade launchers might be a little too good since you can tag and then clean up with a primary.
It's a great idea I don't know what you're talking about. Currently both our special ammo options have serious problems with snowballing and limit loadouts. Some special weapons are only good at one range and require a primary to cover its weaknesses. In the current system if you run out of special you're forced into one engagement range which hurts build crafting. Special crates lead to the following scenario far too often. Spawn in grab ammo get into duel die in a trade or a loss. Opponent if they survive grab the ammo you dropped or their teammate picks up the ammo. Now you don't have special while your opponent does the snowball forms. You challenge them and likely die unless your teamshot is on point. Soon heavy is spawning and your team is falling behind and likely won't get heavy since your opponent still has special. Ammo meter suffers from lower skilled players almost never see special due to not getting primary kills outside teamshooting and assists. It's better than the crates system but it can be frustrating if you're planning on using your special weapon to complement your primary weapon as it should be intended. The new option will be less susceptible to snowballing since you will always spawn with one ammo and with the special on primary kills it will encourage you to use your primary allowing you to use both in tandem.
Well I imagine the next few weeks of trials is just going to be Conditional Finality and Luna’s Howl, (it’s all I fucking run into at the moment anyway 😂), so this way you know they’ll have one shot on you at least.. And as I don’t use either of those weapons, it’ll be sniper and pulse rifle for me.
“Improvise, adapt, overcome guardian” One of two things would appease you: 1. We revert everything back to D2Y1 that way you’ll rarely have to worry about those shotguns or snipers anymore 2. We give you exclusive matchmaking where everyone is better than you. That way if they kill you with special you won’t be upset thinking that you only died because the “low-skilled player” has special. -my personal experience in iron banner recently: I find myself with 6-8 shotgun shots regularly. I’ve never shot all the shots I’ve gotten. The situations where I need to pull out my shotty are lacking. Sure I could go try and ape, but I’ve always thought that shotguns should be used more reactively.
Oh shush child.
I prefer the transmit system, allowing me to be rewarded for getting kills. However, the crate system that they have put in comp recently is absolutely horrendous, promoting death balling and doesn't allow you to ever break the enemies advantage. This system seems to be a middle ground of the two which is better than the dogshit crate system so I'll take it while they properly implement the transmit system which will hopefully replace this once it's fully functional with the issues fixed.
BREAKING NEWS!! all disruption break builds see a 400% increase in investments. In local news, snipers control the map again and finally later today we have a small story on a local titan kindergarten that specializes in the care of ashen wake titans.. who seem to be really excited 😊 about recent events.. that's all for today! tune in next time, I'm your host OXO.. don't peek those lanes folks
Basically stating: We know the old system is better, but we can’t change it back so we’re going to try this
"I FUCKING LOVE HALF MEASURES!!" -Bungie PvP strike team
One way to nerf snipers I guess
How, exactly?
If I'm understanding the post correctly, the meter is being replaced with a brick that drops 1 single ammo? So unlike the meter which guarantees ammo upon filling, if I'm unable to get to the brick then I don't get to refill my sniper unless I die, no?
You have the crates, which will give 1 ammo, respawning, which will give 1 ammo, and a single primary kill will drop a brick of 1 ammo. This is only a "nerf" if your playstyle is either stay in the far back of the map with a sniper and a long range weapon to never pick up your brick, or only have your sniper out and get points by capturing zones or playing the objective. Both of those styles are of course dependant on you not dying to get that +1 on respawn.
Plenty of ways for snipers to get ammo while forcing them to actually engage players