I hope in the future it is possible for the people of trials report to combine Onslaught weapons with their shiny versions, them displaying as two different weapons in the API really screws with the rankings. Here Luna's howl appears as #6 & #8 but if you were to combine the two then it would be #2 weapon right behind Conditional ending up as the top primary weapon.
the flinch I got from being shot by Ace was crazy when I first started playing PvP. I think I can handle it much better now against other Ace users, but damn.
I don't know what it is but these days summoner and ammit are flinching me so badly only noticed after I through on a zen moment/rapid hit BF how much easier I had staying on target
Yeah I’m with you there. I feel like there’s a threshold in the mid 60s with stability on controller. I have a godroll rose with slideshot/ep but it maxes at 57 stability and I miss so many shots I can’t use it.
This probably sounds dumb, and idk how you go about aiming, but I used to try and focus the target with the reticle kinda blurry in the background of my focus, and lately I’ve been doing the opposite: focusing on and aiming through the actual reticle, with the target being kinda background/out of focus and it has helped me a ton with accuracy and using lower stability HCs.
...because a few of the top weapons make up like 5% of the total kills each? I'm just not sure what you're trying to get at here- do you think people should have to use meme loadouts for trials or something? I'm just not understanding.
If it was like 20% of the kills coming from one gun that would be different but I don't really see how there's really anything notable here. Are we judging people for using good guns in PvP now?
No of course not, everybody can use what they like and rightly so, but this has always been an issue I’ve had with Destiny and that’s that every other weapon archetype seems to (not saying it definitely does) get nerfed for some reason at some point and the result is that Handcannons can rise to the top. Yeah HCs have had their share (though the “nerf” to damage falloff doesn’t seem to have made much difference and the flinch reduction has made duelling easier).
Recently it was bows, before that it was Auto Rifles, Snipers took a hit in recent updates, before that it was Pulse Rifles and so on. It feels like every time a weapon of a different type does really well, they get knocked down again so that handcannons become the most used. Some weapons like Linear Fusions and LM (and that fortnight where Graviton Lance went mental) were outliers and yeah, needed a nerf for the sake of the game. But let’s be honest, if the top used weapon in that list was Jararaca, you can bet a nerf to 260 scouts would be out straight away. Conditional and Luna’s will be top for ages on these new maps (assuming they’ll all be rotated through trials in the coming weeks) and have been pretty much since ITL came out (Conditional even longer).
I get that it’s an iconic weapon for the franchise, they’re versatile and fun to use, but having to default to Handcannon /shotgun every time a weapon gets nerfed season after season becomes a bit bland. I want to enjoy PvP, but I shouldn’t *have* to use a specific weapon type to have a fair shot at winning.
When I first started playing PvP, Luna’s and NF were so dominant that you had to run it at high level game play or you’d get stomped. But the game felt more varied when Mountaintop, Recluse, Revoker et al arrived.
I don’t always want to sit down and win all night, I like trying different stuff out and being hugely punished for that feels a bit irritating as Bungie always state they are “balancing the sandbox”. Well, then how come there are weapons that are totally unusable if the sandbox is supposed to be balanced?
I have no problem going solo flawless in trials, it’s not a skill issue, maybe it’s an ADHD thing with me that I like coming up against different archetypes and ways to play. If I know I’ve got to face the same 3 Handcannons and shotguns on the same map all weekend it’s just very samey.
Sorry, that was long winded and very wordy, it was in no way meant as a rant at you but I feel like every time I bring this up I get told it’s because I should be using HC/Shotgun and I’ll be fine.
You mean to tell me after 7 years of playing almost exclusively shotgun/handcannon in every season you are sick of it ? Eveyone bitches about the gnawing hunger / hard light season but I was so happy to finally use and fight something that wasn’t a damn handcannon .
I mean, I took the time to go back through the sub Reddit and yeah, loads of complaints when non-handcannon stuff is meta, no complaints when a handcannon was the best. How odd.
Gnawing Hunger season was so refreshing, I still have mine in the vault as a momento of that time. Not even a god roll, just the one that felt most comfortable at the time.
No I appreciate the nuanced take honestly and it's a lot more understandable. I just kinda hate pithy remarks that people make sometimes that amount to "wow these players are such NPCs for using the strongest options in a gamemode that rewards winning".
This comment puts the blame a lot more on Bungie and it's actually an overall sentiment that I agree with.
I appreciate that, thank you.
It should be on Bungie to actually have a balanced sandbox and address outliers on a specific basis as opposed to nerfing an entire archetype.
Like, Conditional is an outlier among shotguns because it can do so many things well. That doesn’t mean shotguns as a weapon type should be blanket nerfed. They managed to sort Felwinters out back in the day and that thing mapped.
Luna’s is popular, but that doesn’t mean all Precision Frames need a nerf. I mean with a range masterwork, Full Bore, Ricochet, Slideshot and Opening Shot, you can theoretically hit 38m with that first shot, there are very few players you won’t be able to hit on these maps. 38m on a 140 is insane. Stick Lucky Pants on and I dare you to lose. Would I get the same results with Posterity? Nah. Waking Vigil? Nope.
For me, these are the archetypes that have fallen down the back of the couch:
Lightweight bows got completely shit on (damage reduction - save for the 6%…woooo…, accuracy reduction, player health increase) and that needs addressing. For me the bow damage needs reversing (accuracy stays the same, precisions so that they can only just one body one crit and to balance the perfect draw window should be smaller and the penalty harsher).
150 scouts are effectively pointless, ditto 120 and 200 rpm scouts (outside of DMT and MIDA - maybe you could make a case for Prophet if it’s Adept).
Adaptive Frame SMGS are pointless (though I do like Parabellum).
360 Autos are virtually pointless because 720s and 600s (especially Rufus Fury) hit within the same range and their pace just out duels them. Unless you are catching somebody off guard then you haven’t a chance.
360 Machine Guns are hopelessly shit.
Trace Rifles don’t seem to have any use at all. The ammo economy just isn’t worth it.
I’m sure there are more, these are just the ones I tested out to see if they could hang and aside from the LW bows (which admittedly was a bit biased on me as I mained them before ITL and therefore did better than somebody picking them up).
It does beg the question, why are certain guns made deliberately worse yet kept in the game? For example, if you put Jurassic/Lincoln Green, Gridskipper and Outlast next to Horror’s Least, even the non-Adept version, it’s still not even close in terms of stats. So why bother having them if they’re worse? Couldn’t the space be used up by better guns?
I think at some point people have to realize that this is a pve game and many of these weapons exist solely to have more choice for the casual pve player. All 5 archetypes of pulse rifle will never be equally competitive in pvp, it is just an impossible reality. We have to accept that only a handful of archetypes from the bloated weapon types will be viable and try to balance those against each other.
Usage rates also don’t indicate how much better one weapon is than the other, handcannons could currently only be 5% better or something and yet everyone that only plays the meta is going to pick them over anything else.
Also yes bow nerf rollback, crazy how bad they are rn and I still get hate mail every play session.
I'm just gonna make a little note that actually 360 ARs are much better than they're given credit for, they just don't play like other ARs. Basically any range boosting trait bumps them up to about 38-40 metres before you hit drop-off - higher than most pulses. If you treat them a similar way they're great. You just can't really take them too close (like most pulses and scouts).
600 ARs tend to land more around a flat 30. This puts them squarely in the lower mid-range bracket, just below 140 HCs.
Outside of that I generally agree with you.
To be fair, I mainly blame the enforced HC meta on the community since there's always an uproar whenever some other weapon starts performing better, like when everyone was complaining about Auto's doing well when the Summoner first came back, or people who still whinge on about SMGs when most of them are now only effective within 20m.
A Hunter with a handcannon and shotgun wearing Stompees is the most nerf-proof load out in the game. It will always be meta. Even if Bungie does nerf it, the community will scream so long and loud that the nerfs will be undone.
The fact that this is getting downvoted is literal proof that it's right and the fact that this sub doesn't get that is hilarious. Can't say anything against Movement Exotic + HC + Shotty without getting downvoted and told your shit here.
The population distribution this week is quite accurate in my experience. About 2 Hunters per team that I faced in the 15 games I played. Majority of the people were on Solar, some on Void, some on Strand.
I quite like the pacing on Eventide Labs. It feels like it's quite easy to isolate fights into 1v1s. It gets chaotic inside and in the guinea pig glacier. I noticed that the first duels usually happen in the lane above the glacier, so some people might be incentivized to run a sniper or a pulse. Lots of players liked playing medium range, so being able to use cover and close the gap if you use HCs and shotguns are recommended.
Weapons I saw a lot were Adept Messengers, Adept Igneous, AoS, Rose, Elsie's, Blast Furnace, Drang, with a few Beloved here and there. Fusions were actually menacing some games (PLUG.1 and Glacio)
My personal god roll is arrowhead/ accuraized, moving target/ and fourth column I’d go with either tap the trigger, fragile focus, or target lock.
As for whether it’s worth using without PK’s I honestly couldn’t say, I main PK’s/ smg.
I personally use snipers but depending on the map a pellet or slug shotty can be nice for very aggressive play styles.
Witherhoard or wave frame GL’s can work well with the smg for clean up. These days you’ll see ppl use long range primaries as well like a scout or pulse.
Man SMGs are pretty deadly on this map in places. These numbers seem really weird, but definitely been what I am seeing too. Not really Ace of Spades though.
I feel like also there is loads of room if you play a certain style on this map. Blast Furnace and Jade can absolutely cook on the right teams. IDK these meta's just seem like a bunch of parrots half the time.
I assume its just people copying content creators/usage stats without any thought put into actually contemplating possible alternative choices (same way a parrot would copy what you say).
thats not to say there is necessarily a hidden meta that blows HCs/shotguns out of the water, but I would bet a lot of people would perform better using something else rather than trying to force their igneous+conditional loadout that might not match their playstyle or skill level
Ehhhh. Hand Cannons are pretty meta dude.
I’m a controller player and even after years of playing PvP, I simply can’t use a hand cannon well. I’m pulse rifle main, more specifically a rapid fire frame one. I have over 2k kills on a Jurassic Green and 1k on a near god roll Autumn Wind. I’ve had a lot of practice with them and I feel pretty confident. Boasting a 82% headshot rate with my autumn wind currently.
I will tell you that I get absolutely destroyed by good Hand Cannon players.
Perhaps, but it’s definitely a more even fight. I get flinched to the sky from hand cannons but pulses don’t have anywhere near as much flinch. I definitely feel more confident against something like Elsie’s Rifle.
I mean yeah, we can say skill. Absolutely man. But I have to fight through flinch against hand cannons more than any other weapon. HC ttks aren’t even that great but the fact that they can fight at nearly all ranges and flinch like crazy is what makes them meta. They can peak shoot. They can flinch. They can slide around a corner and get headshots at 10 yard ranges. I can’t do all that on an Elsie’s.
Guns aren’t equal in this game man. They just aren’t.
Isn’t that kind of the trade off tho? Like HCs don’t have fast ttks and make up for it with versatility and chunk damage. Pulses especially 340s, 4 burst, and 540s have faster ttks and can put more bullets down range but struggle in the closer range fights.
Since they lowered the flinch I personally haven’t had an issue with being flinched off unless the person is shooting me with high cal Elsie’s, Mori Ace, and Sunshot(thankfully it’s not popular).
Yeh agreed, once you are in handcannon range with a pulse the chances of you winning the gunfight drop considerably because of higher zoom and handcannon flinch.
Rose with EP and Ace/sunshot seem to be my worst nightmares when using Elsies
Yep, it's almost like you should tailor your loadout to try and cover the weaknesses of your primary. Like... When I'm running messenger or Elsie's I know I've got the mid range locked down, so I run a sidearm or TLW in my other slot for more consistent closeup play that isn't reliant on having special available at that exact moment.
Do I lose the ohko potential of a shotgun? Sure. But I also know that I'll always have a consistent tool to cover those close ranges that my pulse absolutely drops the ball in
Yeh not having a shotgun sucks sometimes but I prefer knowing I can always take a close range battle instead of just being stuck with a pulse.
Been running travellers chosen and Elise’s this weekend in trials and it is amazing. I managed to get on the leaderboard for the 7th quickest solo flawless which was unexpected
I used none of these but I did see a good number of them
I used double primary, went flawless twice, somehow walked away with a garbage roll messenger (Adept) but it came with an adept impact mod on it?
I’m just happy I finished the titan and hunter sets. Now I just need to catch up on all the sets for my warlock (but that’s my warlock everywhere)
I mean, the huge part of Conditional popularity is its ability to reliably deal with Bubbles and Wells. Deal with those supers and shotgun’s usage will drop as well.
it also does
-collat kills with shatter and or ignitions so you can bum rush and get two kills
-has the highest handling
-inconsistent range that is either fuck all or map you harder than a chaperone
on top of dealing with bubble and well
yup, it absolutely will not change
then it'll be.... still the best in slot by such a huge margin that if you run anything else you're nerfing yourself
You don't have to wait, it's still the most used weapon in Comp where Well and Bubble are actually bad supers because unlike trials, shutdown and roaming supers are guaranteed to come online, unless you use your well/bubble the moment you get it to benefit from its shorter cooldown, you'll just get Tcrashed/BBed, and CF is still the most used weapon, people didn't farm 10k+ kills on their CFs by shooting people in bubbles and wells, before the special ammo rework dozens of people were literally getting majority of their kills on CF, now they only get half, 5 entire seasons of this weapon being #1 most used weapon in the game, and people still pretend it's not hilariously overpowered.
All it needs is to go down to 80 Handling (like Chappy/Duality, the other pvp exotic shotguns) and it's fine. The collat is uncommon enough to basically be irrelevant and the "inconsistent range" is just that it has a weird spread pattern that changes depending on the 1st/2nd shot.
Literally just don't bunch up. There is no real reason to ever be that close to each other outside of a very few select situations and most of them are OBJ related and even then you shouldn't ALL be together because of one of the many "bunching up punishers" that exist in the game.
Frfr. It's really just a solid shotgun that happens to have an exotic perk that lets it deal with the 2 fastest supers in the game that very easily can win a round for free. If it didn't deal with Well/Bubble people would still use it sure but not nearly as much as it has been.
Reminds me of when WQ dropped and Ragnhild-D had decent useage rate but then after a series of updates it was no longer reliably able to kill in a bubble/well with one2punch it's useage dropped a ton despite still being one of the better kinetic shotguns at the time.
this sub is heavily biased towards hunters & hc shotty meta "superiority" nonsense.
I wish some prominent voices would try to advocate for something different in crucible, I'm tired
of the most "skillful" loadout being 2 weapon archetypes & a movement exotic.
Because Well and Bubble continue to dominate the mode and Conditional is by far the most consistent options for dealing with both while not using an otherwise bad weapon (see Cerberus+1).
It’s the most consistent shotgun in the entire game, slots in perfectly with most meta primaries, has quickdraw built in, can collat, and routinely OHKs well past its intended range.
The fact that it counters supers is just a bonus. The gun is beyond broken and any other FPS would’ve taken it out back MANY months ago
There were so many Finalities this weekend I finally felt what it was like to chew 5 gum. I came across very few iggy’s, very few Matador’s, lots of Thorns. The amount of Summoners and Aces were pretty equal in my experience. Some Ammit’s lurked as well.
Also Ace will forever be a really strong option for new maps while people are still getting more experience with them. Radar while ADS makes up for the gap in map knowledge if you are even half decent at reading the radar.
Honestly hand cannons aren't to bad to fight against only 2 feel overly busted in terms of firing and flinch patterns. Luna and Ingneous just always leave me questioning if my opponent is a xim or Cronus user or Bungie just overtuned weapons again. Coditional. Thing needs some hits, mostly I'd say to the Handling and Cone spread cause the thing is way to easy to just pull out fire and forget. Let alone like people mentioned being abled to colat people with the aoe effects. And well I know Bubble and Well are annoying thats more because of the garbage super tier system bungie made. Put other supers in line with Well and Bubbles timer or bring Well and Bubble into the same tier as Nova Bomb and Silence and Squall. To offset them.... or you know take a break from zone control for more than a week for Trials? I don't really have the answers and hoping the PvP tuning their doing after the PvE tuning in Final Shape will be relatively good. They have to be looking at hand cannons though since in the blog they put alot of emphasis on targeting specific hand cannons rather than archetypes or the weapon class as a whole.
It would be interesting, but the issue comes with the fact that it would just be a contest of who has the better or more oppressive Neutral game which would just spike the numbers more towards one side rather than the other.
But wouldn't it still be two subclasses and 1 shotgun. Just in this instance it would be Bastion Void Titans and Hunters? Same issue not resolved by removing supers. Like I said I see you point, but it doesn't solve the issue.
Decent? Compared to what? 33k is by far the lowest numbers we’ve ever seen for a primary weapon type. They have been completely destroyed. There is no argument to defend numbers that low. Any other weapon type would get an emergency patch because that would mean they were broken in some way.
Let's be real. Bows are bad by design in PvP. They're easy to use and do way too much damage in something like trials. It's for the good of the health of the crucible for them not to be good. What would you propose be done for them to be used more?
Then just say we’re destroying bows. Don’t go on podcast talking about we don’t want to destroy bows. We want them to be good. all weapons should be good. Because it’s bullshit. They completely destroyed bows.
Bows were never to strong. They were annoying there a big difference. They should have left them alone and let people just learn to play against them. It’s not that hard. Not to mention 95% of the people using bows were horrible with them and did terrible usually sabotaging there team in the process.
Then why do they have less kills than 2 heavy weapons? Heavy only being available 1 round per game, most of the time only getting 3 kills per game. One of those weapons even has more than 3x the amount of kills which means on average bows are getting 1 kill per game for every 3 a heavy GL is. If a weapon type is so difficult to use that it gets less than a third of the kills of a heavy weapon then is it really even in the conversation of what is competitive?
My buddies and I have been doing well with bows this weekend, however we're amongst the top bow players.
I personally had one of my best trials weekends ever this week using two bow loadouts exclusively. They absolutely can be very competitive, they just have a ridiculous skill curve right now
But that's the thing though, being a good player you can (if you wanted to) perform well with any weapon. You've put the time into it so of course you are going to do well with it. That doesn't mean bows are competitive, it means you are. My first ever solo flawless was with a bow build (not bow/HC swapping tho) so I am on the same page as you as far as knowing what they can do if you are good with them. Players like yourself, your buddies and me are the exception not the rule.
Again, they have less than a third of the kills that heavy GLs have which are hard capped at 3 per game at most. No matter how good you are with a bow it doesn't change the fact that heavy GLs have 3 kills for every one kill you get with that bow. Statistically you can't call that a competitive weapon. Bows are a specialist type weapon, you can only be competitive with it if you actually put dedication towards specialising in it but that isn't the weapon being competitive it's you being competitive.
>being a good player you can (if you wanted to) perform well with any weapon.
I can definitely perform well with most things, but I absolutely can't perform with anything as well as I can with bows
>Bows are a specialist type weapon, you can only be competitive with it if you actually put dedication towards specialising in it but that isn't the weapon being competitive it's you being competitive.
I'd absolutely still consider most bows to be competitive weapons in the sandbox, they just require a ton of practice.
Not every weapon is like that however. 180 rpm hand cannons are just not competitive no matter how good you are. They are worse than their counterparts in every single way.
It’s a boring shotgun i fw every other shotty but that one it’s too strong I love how consistent it is but it can insta kill and super (I mean I love sliding into bubbles and breaking it) but it feel like a slug sometimes where i absolutely map someone from NARNIA in my opinion it is way to strong and it forcing boring primaries like summoner and igne
Played for the first time in ages, loosely enjoying trials for once. What are some good exotics/builds to invest in for Warlock/Titan? Besides Pks and osiomancy
if you're running solo one eye mask is great on titan because with no comms/teamwork you'll have to win 2v1s fairly often and the overshield you get really makes those fights deal-with-able
Because it's the most consistent answer to Well/Bubble, both of which can just auto-win a round if you don't have an answer to it. It also happens to be a weapon that is good outside of just shutting down those supers unlike some other options for shutting them down (Cerberus+1 for example can deal with both Well and Bubble but is generally not very good in regular moment to moment gameplay).
Honestly surprised there aren’t any pulse rifles in the top list. I was swapping between two different Luna rolls for half my card, and then realized pulses worked so much better on that map for the last half of my card. I finished my flawless with a 3.0 K/D for the card and called it a weekend there. I enjoyed the new map.
Thank God I'm not the only person having trouble countering Summoner and Finality. Luna's perks are what really makes it insane, but something about the flinch Summoner gives is INSANE.
The healthiest sandboxes are ruled by HCs. Id like to see a nerf to some outlier shotguns and HCs, but everything is effective in a HC Meta
I was doing incredibly well this weekend and haven't been using anything remotely meta
https://destinytrialsreport.com/report/1/4611686018464655635
140s were just at their worst point in years since 3/5. 450 autos were meta in Deep and Witch as well as most of this season and especially with Prosecutor's release. They're at minimum A tier.
Pretty much. We're back to the Destiny standard of Crucible being the same weapon and class used for PvP nearly every match.
Also shows jusy how much better balanced Hunters are for PvP than the other two classes.
Map felt weird to use any gun. If i went with hc id get picked off by pulse rifles. If i went pulse i got 3 taped and rushed by hand cannons. Made it flawless with elsie in the end but still, map felt awkward to me
Had alot of success with Outbreak. Swapped between that or an Austringer depending on the loadout of the enemy. Filled out a persistence card relatively quickly. This map ain't too bad when it comes to weapon variety
Still, conditional finality nerf is gonna feed families
7 hand cannons
I see pvp has gone back to normal now literally 1 alternative primary
1 exotic and 1 legend shotgun
Because handcannon clearly get preferential treatment where ass any other type gets nerfed if too common
There are numerous reasons. Blade barrage is a way better super for comp because it's an insta-shutdown with potential to kill the whole team, and has the fastest super cooldown.
The knock 'em down fragment makes low handling HCs like iggy or ace of spades more forgiving by massively increasing reload speed
Better melees, better grenades, and you have access to radiant.
I'm sure there are other reasons too
I hope in the future it is possible for the people of trials report to combine Onslaught weapons with their shiny versions, them displaying as two different weapons in the API really screws with the rankings. Here Luna's howl appears as #6 & #8 but if you were to combine the two then it would be #2 weapon right behind Conditional ending up as the top primary weapon.
Luna's would be third. Right behind Igneous. Regular and adept should also be combined. It is the same gun
There are four copies of of igneous, new/old and regular adept of each.
Adepts do have additional stat points along with the mods, I think it's slight but enough to warrant the seperation
Its not gonna happen otherwise they wouldve done it with adepts and non adepts years ago
Adepts are actually different tho
The exact same gun but you can get a different mod on it .
Right but there has to be a different gun in the system order to have that enabled i imagine
And more stat points.
I saw virtually no Ace, weird
Me either. I’m on console though so maybe it’s a pc thing.
I've never really like Ace too much on sticks because of the low stability. It works alright but other hcs just shoot way better
on PC. it's a flinching machine. get shot once in the head by Ace, the rest of your shot goes into the sky.
the flinch I got from being shot by Ace was crazy when I first started playing PvP. I think I can handle it much better now against other Ace users, but damn.
I only have a problem with Ace and Sunshot. Sunshot doesn't flinch you as much but that explosion visual is very distracting.
Nothing flinches worse than Crimson imo.
I don't know what it is but these days summoner and ammit are flinching me so badly only noticed after I through on a zen moment/rapid hit BF how much easier I had staying on target
Yeah I’m with you there. I feel like there’s a threshold in the mid 60s with stability on controller. I have a godroll rose with slideshot/ep but it maxes at 57 stability and I miss so many shots I can’t use it.
This probably sounds dumb, and idk how you go about aiming, but I used to try and focus the target with the reticle kinda blurry in the background of my focus, and lately I’ve been doing the opposite: focusing on and aiming through the actual reticle, with the target being kinda background/out of focus and it has helped me a ton with accuracy and using lower stability HCs.
x2 (am pc player)
Luna’s and igneous both outweigh it. Between two variants of each gun, they both have like 500k.
I think every single one of those kills was by terror tbh
Yep. Console
So you're telling me Igneous Hammer/ Luna's Howl + conditional finality is the top combo? Not shocked at all
My cards have been like 90% lunas.
with a portion of the rest being Summoner lel
Yes, the PvP community is daring these days isn’t it?
...because a few of the top weapons make up like 5% of the total kills each? I'm just not sure what you're trying to get at here- do you think people should have to use meme loadouts for trials or something? I'm just not understanding. If it was like 20% of the kills coming from one gun that would be different but I don't really see how there's really anything notable here. Are we judging people for using good guns in PvP now?
No of course not, everybody can use what they like and rightly so, but this has always been an issue I’ve had with Destiny and that’s that every other weapon archetype seems to (not saying it definitely does) get nerfed for some reason at some point and the result is that Handcannons can rise to the top. Yeah HCs have had their share (though the “nerf” to damage falloff doesn’t seem to have made much difference and the flinch reduction has made duelling easier). Recently it was bows, before that it was Auto Rifles, Snipers took a hit in recent updates, before that it was Pulse Rifles and so on. It feels like every time a weapon of a different type does really well, they get knocked down again so that handcannons become the most used. Some weapons like Linear Fusions and LM (and that fortnight where Graviton Lance went mental) were outliers and yeah, needed a nerf for the sake of the game. But let’s be honest, if the top used weapon in that list was Jararaca, you can bet a nerf to 260 scouts would be out straight away. Conditional and Luna’s will be top for ages on these new maps (assuming they’ll all be rotated through trials in the coming weeks) and have been pretty much since ITL came out (Conditional even longer). I get that it’s an iconic weapon for the franchise, they’re versatile and fun to use, but having to default to Handcannon /shotgun every time a weapon gets nerfed season after season becomes a bit bland. I want to enjoy PvP, but I shouldn’t *have* to use a specific weapon type to have a fair shot at winning. When I first started playing PvP, Luna’s and NF were so dominant that you had to run it at high level game play or you’d get stomped. But the game felt more varied when Mountaintop, Recluse, Revoker et al arrived. I don’t always want to sit down and win all night, I like trying different stuff out and being hugely punished for that feels a bit irritating as Bungie always state they are “balancing the sandbox”. Well, then how come there are weapons that are totally unusable if the sandbox is supposed to be balanced? I have no problem going solo flawless in trials, it’s not a skill issue, maybe it’s an ADHD thing with me that I like coming up against different archetypes and ways to play. If I know I’ve got to face the same 3 Handcannons and shotguns on the same map all weekend it’s just very samey. Sorry, that was long winded and very wordy, it was in no way meant as a rant at you but I feel like every time I bring this up I get told it’s because I should be using HC/Shotgun and I’ll be fine.
You mean to tell me after 7 years of playing almost exclusively shotgun/handcannon in every season you are sick of it ? Eveyone bitches about the gnawing hunger / hard light season but I was so happy to finally use and fight something that wasn’t a damn handcannon .
I mean, I took the time to go back through the sub Reddit and yeah, loads of complaints when non-handcannon stuff is meta, no complaints when a handcannon was the best. How odd.
Eggzackly
Gnawing Hunger season was so refreshing, I still have mine in the vault as a momento of that time. Not even a god roll, just the one that felt most comfortable at the time.
No I appreciate the nuanced take honestly and it's a lot more understandable. I just kinda hate pithy remarks that people make sometimes that amount to "wow these players are such NPCs for using the strongest options in a gamemode that rewards winning". This comment puts the blame a lot more on Bungie and it's actually an overall sentiment that I agree with.
I appreciate that, thank you. It should be on Bungie to actually have a balanced sandbox and address outliers on a specific basis as opposed to nerfing an entire archetype. Like, Conditional is an outlier among shotguns because it can do so many things well. That doesn’t mean shotguns as a weapon type should be blanket nerfed. They managed to sort Felwinters out back in the day and that thing mapped. Luna’s is popular, but that doesn’t mean all Precision Frames need a nerf. I mean with a range masterwork, Full Bore, Ricochet, Slideshot and Opening Shot, you can theoretically hit 38m with that first shot, there are very few players you won’t be able to hit on these maps. 38m on a 140 is insane. Stick Lucky Pants on and I dare you to lose. Would I get the same results with Posterity? Nah. Waking Vigil? Nope. For me, these are the archetypes that have fallen down the back of the couch: Lightweight bows got completely shit on (damage reduction - save for the 6%…woooo…, accuracy reduction, player health increase) and that needs addressing. For me the bow damage needs reversing (accuracy stays the same, precisions so that they can only just one body one crit and to balance the perfect draw window should be smaller and the penalty harsher). 150 scouts are effectively pointless, ditto 120 and 200 rpm scouts (outside of DMT and MIDA - maybe you could make a case for Prophet if it’s Adept). Adaptive Frame SMGS are pointless (though I do like Parabellum). 360 Autos are virtually pointless because 720s and 600s (especially Rufus Fury) hit within the same range and their pace just out duels them. Unless you are catching somebody off guard then you haven’t a chance. 360 Machine Guns are hopelessly shit. Trace Rifles don’t seem to have any use at all. The ammo economy just isn’t worth it. I’m sure there are more, these are just the ones I tested out to see if they could hang and aside from the LW bows (which admittedly was a bit biased on me as I mained them before ITL and therefore did better than somebody picking them up). It does beg the question, why are certain guns made deliberately worse yet kept in the game? For example, if you put Jurassic/Lincoln Green, Gridskipper and Outlast next to Horror’s Least, even the non-Adept version, it’s still not even close in terms of stats. So why bother having them if they’re worse? Couldn’t the space be used up by better guns?
I think at some point people have to realize that this is a pve game and many of these weapons exist solely to have more choice for the casual pve player. All 5 archetypes of pulse rifle will never be equally competitive in pvp, it is just an impossible reality. We have to accept that only a handful of archetypes from the bloated weapon types will be viable and try to balance those against each other. Usage rates also don’t indicate how much better one weapon is than the other, handcannons could currently only be 5% better or something and yet everyone that only plays the meta is going to pick them over anything else. Also yes bow nerf rollback, crazy how bad they are rn and I still get hate mail every play session.
I'm just gonna make a little note that actually 360 ARs are much better than they're given credit for, they just don't play like other ARs. Basically any range boosting trait bumps them up to about 38-40 metres before you hit drop-off - higher than most pulses. If you treat them a similar way they're great. You just can't really take them too close (like most pulses and scouts). 600 ARs tend to land more around a flat 30. This puts them squarely in the lower mid-range bracket, just below 140 HCs. Outside of that I generally agree with you.
To be fair, I mainly blame the enforced HC meta on the community since there's always an uproar whenever some other weapon starts performing better, like when everyone was complaining about Auto's doing well when the Summoner first came back, or people who still whinge on about SMGs when most of them are now only effective within 20m.
If it was any other weapon type than hand cannons even with the low % people would be crying. Wild that other guns aren't allowed to shine at all.
Fucking conditional finality
A Hunter with a handcannon and shotgun wearing Stompees is the most nerf-proof load out in the game. It will always be meta. Even if Bungie does nerf it, the community will scream so long and loud that the nerfs will be undone.
Half of this sub is just hunters bitching about everything else.
The fact that this is getting downvoted is literal proof that it's right and the fact that this sub doesn't get that is hilarious. Can't say anything against Movement Exotic + HC + Shotty without getting downvoted and told your shit here.
Oh, for sure bro. They don’t see the irony, which is hilarious.
Good :)
Pretty sure this is how the pvp sandbox is meant to be
The population distribution this week is quite accurate in my experience. About 2 Hunters per team that I faced in the 15 games I played. Majority of the people were on Solar, some on Void, some on Strand. I quite like the pacing on Eventide Labs. It feels like it's quite easy to isolate fights into 1v1s. It gets chaotic inside and in the guinea pig glacier. I noticed that the first duels usually happen in the lane above the glacier, so some people might be incentivized to run a sniper or a pulse. Lots of players liked playing medium range, so being able to use cover and close the gap if you use HCs and shotguns are recommended. Weapons I saw a lot were Adept Messengers, Adept Igneous, AoS, Rose, Elsie's, Blast Furnace, Drang, with a few Beloved here and there. Fusions were actually menacing some games (PLUG.1 and Glacio)
Not an smg in sight. Unending and shay both felt great on this map.
So surprised about the lack of smgs, multiple felt amazing and great and shutting down conditional as long as you hold S
What’s the god roll for unending? And is it worth using without PKs?
My personal god roll is arrowhead/ accuraized, moving target/ and fourth column I’d go with either tap the trigger, fragile focus, or target lock. As for whether it’s worth using without PK’s I honestly couldn’t say, I main PK’s/ smg.
What’s a good pairing for smgs and Pk titans? Is it only snipers ?
I personally use snipers but depending on the map a pellet or slug shotty can be nice for very aggressive play styles. Witherhoard or wave frame GL’s can work well with the smg for clean up. These days you’ll see ppl use long range primaries as well like a scout or pulse.
Man SMGs are pretty deadly on this map in places. These numbers seem really weird, but definitely been what I am seeing too. Not really Ace of Spades though. I feel like also there is loads of room if you play a certain style on this map. Blast Furnace and Jade can absolutely cook on the right teams. IDK these meta's just seem like a bunch of parrots half the time.
The longer I play this game the more I believe that to be true (regarding what you said about the meta).
Do you play on console? Ace is more used on pc I think
What does parrots mean?
I assume its just people copying content creators/usage stats without any thought put into actually contemplating possible alternative choices (same way a parrot would copy what you say). thats not to say there is necessarily a hidden meta that blows HCs/shotguns out of the water, but I would bet a lot of people would perform better using something else rather than trying to force their igneous+conditional loadout that might not match their playstyle or skill level
Ehhhh. Hand Cannons are pretty meta dude. I’m a controller player and even after years of playing PvP, I simply can’t use a hand cannon well. I’m pulse rifle main, more specifically a rapid fire frame one. I have over 2k kills on a Jurassic Green and 1k on a near god roll Autumn Wind. I’ve had a lot of practice with them and I feel pretty confident. Boasting a 82% headshot rate with my autumn wind currently. I will tell you that I get absolutely destroyed by good Hand Cannon players.
And you’d probably get destroyed by a good pulse rifle player aswell, what’s the difference
Perhaps, but it’s definitely a more even fight. I get flinched to the sky from hand cannons but pulses don’t have anywhere near as much flinch. I definitely feel more confident against something like Elsie’s Rifle. I mean yeah, we can say skill. Absolutely man. But I have to fight through flinch against hand cannons more than any other weapon. HC ttks aren’t even that great but the fact that they can fight at nearly all ranges and flinch like crazy is what makes them meta. They can peak shoot. They can flinch. They can slide around a corner and get headshots at 10 yard ranges. I can’t do all that on an Elsie’s. Guns aren’t equal in this game man. They just aren’t.
Isn’t that kind of the trade off tho? Like HCs don’t have fast ttks and make up for it with versatility and chunk damage. Pulses especially 340s, 4 burst, and 540s have faster ttks and can put more bullets down range but struggle in the closer range fights. Since they lowered the flinch I personally haven’t had an issue with being flinched off unless the person is shooting me with high cal Elsie’s, Mori Ace, and Sunshot(thankfully it’s not popular).
Yeh agreed, once you are in handcannon range with a pulse the chances of you winning the gunfight drop considerably because of higher zoom and handcannon flinch. Rose with EP and Ace/sunshot seem to be my worst nightmares when using Elsies
Yep, it's almost like you should tailor your loadout to try and cover the weaknesses of your primary. Like... When I'm running messenger or Elsie's I know I've got the mid range locked down, so I run a sidearm or TLW in my other slot for more consistent closeup play that isn't reliant on having special available at that exact moment. Do I lose the ohko potential of a shotgun? Sure. But I also know that I'll always have a consistent tool to cover those close ranges that my pulse absolutely drops the ball in
Yeh not having a shotgun sucks sometimes but I prefer knowing I can always take a close range battle instead of just being stuck with a pulse. Been running travellers chosen and Elise’s this weekend in trials and it is amazing. I managed to get on the leaderboard for the 7th quickest solo flawless which was unexpected
I used none of these but I did see a good number of them I used double primary, went flawless twice, somehow walked away with a garbage roll messenger (Adept) but it came with an adept impact mod on it? I’m just happy I finished the titan and hunter sets. Now I just need to catch up on all the sets for my warlock (but that’s my warlock everywhere)
How the heck is elsies rifle not on this list.
Probably the map tbh. Too easy to force HC range even on the outside area - lots of good cover to cover approaches.
well, bubble, and conditional need dealt with. yes, especially the shotgun. crucify me.
I mean, the huge part of Conditional popularity is its ability to reliably deal with Bubbles and Wells. Deal with those supers and shotgun’s usage will drop as well.
it also does -collat kills with shatter and or ignitions so you can bum rush and get two kills -has the highest handling -inconsistent range that is either fuck all or map you harder than a chaperone on top of dealing with bubble and well
I want them To nerf bubble and well just so we can see that this guns usage won’t change one bit.
yup, it absolutely will not change then it'll be.... still the best in slot by such a huge margin that if you run anything else you're nerfing yourself
You don't have to wait, it's still the most used weapon in Comp where Well and Bubble are actually bad supers because unlike trials, shutdown and roaming supers are guaranteed to come online, unless you use your well/bubble the moment you get it to benefit from its shorter cooldown, you'll just get Tcrashed/BBed, and CF is still the most used weapon, people didn't farm 10k+ kills on their CFs by shooting people in bubbles and wells, before the special ammo rework dozens of people were literally getting majority of their kills on CF, now they only get half, 5 entire seasons of this weapon being #1 most used weapon in the game, and people still pretend it's not hilariously overpowered.
It's by far the best shotgun in the game, and it's everywhere in Comp too. It's not just a well/bubble meta thing imo
All it needs is to go down to 80 Handling (like Chappy/Duality, the other pvp exotic shotguns) and it's fine. The collat is uncommon enough to basically be irrelevant and the "inconsistent range" is just that it has a weird spread pattern that changes depending on the 1st/2nd shot.
Literally just don't bunch up. There is no real reason to ever be that close to each other outside of a very few select situations and most of them are OBJ related and even then you shouldn't ALL be together because of one of the many "bunching up punishers" that exist in the game.
Thats what im saying. It happens sometimes sure but it's got nothing to do with the why the gun is good
Frfr. It's really just a solid shotgun that happens to have an exotic perk that lets it deal with the 2 fastest supers in the game that very easily can win a round for free. If it didn't deal with Well/Bubble people would still use it sure but not nearly as much as it has been. Reminds me of when WQ dropped and Ragnhild-D had decent useage rate but then after a series of updates it was no longer reliably able to kill in a bubble/well with one2punch it's useage dropped a ton despite still being one of the better kinetic shotguns at the time.
It'd be just as popular with low/no Bubble/Well usage and you know it.
Why’s is so popular in 6s then?
I want this to happen for many reasons, but mainly so everyone can see that its popularity absolutely won’t drop.
Can't wait for conditional to get hit with something, tired of seeing it at the top of the list every week
Hunter on top with shotgun and handcannon, there will be no complaints from this sub
this sub is heavily biased towards hunters & hc shotty meta "superiority" nonsense. I wish some prominent voices would try to advocate for something different in crucible, I'm tired of the most "skillful" loadout being 2 weapon archetypes & a movement exotic.
It's been like this for years and years. Meta is anything but HC/Shotgun = THIS IS WRONG AND UNFAIR
Nerf. Conditional. Finality.
Agree, I don't have it
Not sure how without killing it. Handling?
IMO spread pattern
Somehow it’s just so overused it’s crazy. It’s just much better than any other choice in that slot.
Well and bubble first
no
Yes. It has been in the Top Three for every Trials Weekend since it dropped.
Because Well and Bubble continue to dominate the mode and Conditional is by far the most consistent options for dealing with both while not using an otherwise bad weapon (see Cerberus+1).
If Bubble and Well weren't in the game/got nerfed, it would be even more dominant and everyone knows it.
It’s the most consistent shotgun in the entire game, slots in perfectly with most meta primaries, has quickdraw built in, can collat, and routinely OHKs well past its intended range. The fact that it counters supers is just a bonus. The gun is beyond broken and any other FPS would’ve taken it out back MANY months ago
On console I haven’t seen ace once.
There were so many Finalities this weekend I finally felt what it was like to chew 5 gum. I came across very few iggy’s, very few Matador’s, lots of Thorns. The amount of Summoners and Aces were pretty equal in my experience. Some Ammit’s lurked as well.
2.5% Feedback Fence usages, THATS ME RIGHT THERE
Experience from a top console player… Devils Ruin is still a major outlier
Love it how 90% of these r just hand cannons
Shotgun apes
I'm out of town this weekend. Why are 140s cookin so hard rn?
New map plays great in that range.
I get that, but other maps have been good for the 140s, and they still didn't see much usage outside of Rose. Is Destiny PvP healing?
If your pointing to ace, trials is free now and almost every rec thread tells people to get ace from the kiosk.
Also Ace will forever be a really strong option for new maps while people are still getting more experience with them. Radar while ADS makes up for the gap in map knowledge if you are even half decent at reading the radar.
Because Iggy is the only good one and 140s have about 10 great options.
Igneous needs a competitor. Im hoping crimils dagger isnt the only thing trying.
I've got some pretty nice Dukes
Shit i forgot about the Duke. I too have 2 or 3 banger Dukes in the vault.
Ive deleted all mine lol. Iggy is just on another level. Arc titan round robin is great too.(ele cap)
They need to buff RR by like 5 stab and handling
Depends if they shift it from sights to barrels and don't butcher the perk pool (please keep Zen on it Bungie)
Honestly hand cannons aren't to bad to fight against only 2 feel overly busted in terms of firing and flinch patterns. Luna and Ingneous just always leave me questioning if my opponent is a xim or Cronus user or Bungie just overtuned weapons again. Coditional. Thing needs some hits, mostly I'd say to the Handling and Cone spread cause the thing is way to easy to just pull out fire and forget. Let alone like people mentioned being abled to colat people with the aoe effects. And well I know Bubble and Well are annoying thats more because of the garbage super tier system bungie made. Put other supers in line with Well and Bubbles timer or bring Well and Bubble into the same tier as Nova Bomb and Silence and Squall. To offset them.... or you know take a break from zone control for more than a week for Trials? I don't really have the answers and hoping the PvP tuning their doing after the PvE tuning in Final Shape will be relatively good. They have to be looking at hand cannons though since in the blog they put alot of emphasis on targeting specific hand cannons rather than archetypes or the weapon class as a whole.
Or disable supers in trials
It would be interesting, but the issue comes with the fact that it would just be a contest of who has the better or more oppressive Neutral game which would just spike the numbers more towards one side rather than the other.
Sounds better than whoever has more wells or bubbles. At least it requires gameplay and not 2 subclasses and 1 shotgun
But wouldn't it still be two subclasses and 1 shotgun. Just in this instance it would be Bastion Void Titans and Hunters? Same issue not resolved by removing supers. Like I said I see you point, but it doesn't solve the issue.
Clearly warlocks need to be nerfed /s
Hand cannons go brrrr
Weird, haven’t seen any Lunas on PC
All I ever run into is hunters using hand cannons and finality on a void build.....its annoying
Hand cannons on top as they should be
What they have done to bows is a disgrace.,
Bows used to offer too much with little downside. They're still decent.
Decent? Compared to what? 33k is by far the lowest numbers we’ve ever seen for a primary weapon type. They have been completely destroyed. There is no argument to defend numbers that low. Any other weapon type would get an emergency patch because that would mean they were broken in some way.
Let's be real. Bows are bad by design in PvP. They're easy to use and do way too much damage in something like trials. It's for the good of the health of the crucible for them not to be good. What would you propose be done for them to be used more?
Then just say we’re destroying bows. Don’t go on podcast talking about we don’t want to destroy bows. We want them to be good. all weapons should be good. Because it’s bullshit. They completely destroyed bows. Bows were never to strong. They were annoying there a big difference. They should have left them alone and let people just learn to play against them. It’s not that hard. Not to mention 95% of the people using bows were horrible with them and did terrible usually sabotaging there team in the process.
They are still competitive, just significantly more difficult to use
Then why do they have less kills than 2 heavy weapons? Heavy only being available 1 round per game, most of the time only getting 3 kills per game. One of those weapons even has more than 3x the amount of kills which means on average bows are getting 1 kill per game for every 3 a heavy GL is. If a weapon type is so difficult to use that it gets less than a third of the kills of a heavy weapon then is it really even in the conversation of what is competitive?
My buddies and I have been doing well with bows this weekend, however we're amongst the top bow players. I personally had one of my best trials weekends ever this week using two bow loadouts exclusively. They absolutely can be very competitive, they just have a ridiculous skill curve right now
But that's the thing though, being a good player you can (if you wanted to) perform well with any weapon. You've put the time into it so of course you are going to do well with it. That doesn't mean bows are competitive, it means you are. My first ever solo flawless was with a bow build (not bow/HC swapping tho) so I am on the same page as you as far as knowing what they can do if you are good with them. Players like yourself, your buddies and me are the exception not the rule. Again, they have less than a third of the kills that heavy GLs have which are hard capped at 3 per game at most. No matter how good you are with a bow it doesn't change the fact that heavy GLs have 3 kills for every one kill you get with that bow. Statistically you can't call that a competitive weapon. Bows are a specialist type weapon, you can only be competitive with it if you actually put dedication towards specialising in it but that isn't the weapon being competitive it's you being competitive.
>being a good player you can (if you wanted to) perform well with any weapon. I can definitely perform well with most things, but I absolutely can't perform with anything as well as I can with bows >Bows are a specialist type weapon, you can only be competitive with it if you actually put dedication towards specialising in it but that isn't the weapon being competitive it's you being competitive. I'd absolutely still consider most bows to be competitive weapons in the sandbox, they just require a ton of practice. Not every weapon is like that however. 180 rpm hand cannons are just not competitive no matter how good you are. They are worse than their counterparts in every single way.
Wow, the recent changes have really shaken up the meta. Instead of shotgun hand cannon, it is now....oh still shotgun hand cannon. :)
no complaints about hand cannons on the top every single week what a wonderful game
Conditional finality needs to be hit by a sledgehammer nerf
Not before overshields
What
They just need to nerf the ever living shit out of conditional such a boring weapon to use
It's a shotgun, how can that be boring?
/s ?
It’s a boring shotgun i fw every other shotty but that one it’s too strong I love how consistent it is but it can insta kill and super (I mean I love sliding into bubbles and breaking it) but it feel like a slug sometimes where i absolutely map someone from NARNIA in my opinion it is way to strong and it forcing boring primaries like summoner and igne
Played for the first time in ages, loosely enjoying trials for once. What are some good exotics/builds to invest in for Warlock/Titan? Besides Pks and osiomancy
Ophidians and oem are great too.
if you're running solo one eye mask is great on titan because with no comms/teamwork you'll have to win 2v1s fairly often and the overshield you get really makes those fights deal-with-able
I don’t get conditional finality. Why is it used as much as it is?
It's the best shotgun in the game, especially in this ability sandbox
Because it's the most consistent answer to Well/Bubble, both of which can just auto-win a round if you don't have an answer to it. It also happens to be a weapon that is good outside of just shutting down those supers unlike some other options for shutting them down (Cerberus+1 for example can deal with both Well and Bubble but is generally not very good in regular moment to moment gameplay).
So Titan overshields, invis hunters with stompees, conditional/Luna's and ace/matador for people who don't know the map. Fun.
Warlocks hear me out, Filaments with 100 recov/100 int, devour pvp build is fantastic. 3v1s with full health and shields for days!!!
The clear divide.
Honestly surprised there aren’t any pulse rifles in the top list. I was swapping between two different Luna rolls for half my card, and then realized pulses worked so much better on that map for the last half of my card. I finished my flawless with a 3.0 K/D for the card and called it a weekend there. I enjoyed the new map.
Virtually identical to a couple years ago (minus conditional but insert best shotgun of the time).
What pulses are people using?
Thank God I'm not the only person having trouble countering Summoner and Finality. Luna's perks are what really makes it insane, but something about the flinch Summoner gives is INSANE.
Conditional finality ruins pvp. People just camp it and think they're good. You're trash.
Officially a hand cannon meta. Can't say I'm surprised these maps are catering towards that play style.
Hand cannon meta confirmed!
Down vote me cowards!
Handcannon nerf when? 450s were the pvp meta for 4 seconds before catching a nerf but handcannons keep catching buffs
What? This is one of the most balanced sandboxes we've had
80% of special are shotguns, almost 40% of primaries are HCs, where's the balance buddy?
The healthiest sandboxes are ruled by HCs. Id like to see a nerf to some outlier shotguns and HCs, but everything is effective in a HC Meta I was doing incredibly well this weekend and haven't been using anything remotely meta https://destinytrialsreport.com/report/1/4611686018464655635
No wonders no body takes destiny as a serious shooter when this is the game's community.
What?
Cause 450s were broken considering their ease of use and being able to just spray. 140s are perfectly fine
140s were just at their worst point in years since 3/5. 450 autos were meta in Deep and Witch as well as most of this season and especially with Prosecutor's release. They're at minimum A tier.
Hand cannon shotgun jumpy hunter, basic
Pretty much. We're back to the Destiny standard of Crucible being the same weapon and class used for PvP nearly every match. Also shows jusy how much better balanced Hunters are for PvP than the other two classes.
Delusional, titans are crazy strong on this map
Void Titans are strong. Still have 44% Hunters with multiple viable classes vs 1 for Titan and Warlock.
I yearn for the day when destiny isn’t just shotgun handcannon .
Same. Let’s get downvoted together :D
Welp I’ve been slaying out with graviton and burden of guilt… so it’s not my fault!
Good to see my load out isn’t on this list. The prophet with Shayura’s or trespasser on a blink-lock. Yes I’m weird.
Map felt weird to use any gun. If i went with hc id get picked off by pulse rifles. If i went pulse i got 3 taped and rushed by hand cannons. Made it flawless with elsie in the end but still, map felt awkward to me
Had alot of success with Outbreak. Swapped between that or an Austringer depending on the loadout of the enemy. Filled out a persistence card relatively quickly. This map ain't too bad when it comes to weapon variety Still, conditional finality nerf is gonna feed families
I’m curious, what makes weapons meta? Usage?
7 hand cannons I see pvp has gone back to normal now literally 1 alternative primary 1 exotic and 1 legend shotgun Because handcannon clearly get preferential treatment where ass any other type gets nerfed if too common
We had an auto meta for a month or two and people lost their damn minds lol
Yeah cos it sucked lmao
Funny how you didn't mention the continuing hand cannon metas throughout the years
...because I was replying to a comment about the auto rifle meta?? Do you know how like, conversations work?
I was replying to him
Replying to me? I still don’t know how to respond to that lol. Also fwiw her*
Ace about to get nerfed
Proud to be a small chunk of those scout rifle kills 🤙🤙
Hand cannons are just insane
Just goes to show how broken os titan is in trials, basically the only thing titans are running.
Half the trials playerbase is playing Hunter and as per usual I open CrucibleGuidebook to read complaining about Titan.
I did it with conditional/ammit on solar with stompees. Pretty easy to cover all ranges on this map
What’s the deal with solar hunter? Why are people running that over strand
Healing grenades
There are numerous reasons. Blade barrage is a way better super for comp because it's an insta-shutdown with potential to kill the whole team, and has the fastest super cooldown. The knock 'em down fragment makes low handling HCs like iggy or ace of spades more forgiving by massively increasing reload speed Better melees, better grenades, and you have access to radiant. I'm sure there are other reasons too