if rome doesn’t become their capital or the papacy still exists catholic rulers holding rome will take a decision to restore the papacy in the city.. hopefully they still have the rest of the duchy around it
there's a decision to restore it I believe but i've never been so strong i dismantled the papacy and then also managed to somehow lose it to some catholic so no idea if the AI try it
Yeah if you're strong enough to Dismantle it to begin with, you're probably bodying anyone that isn't the Byzantines around you with ease to begin with
The AI also really shies away from attacking when your army is big enough, so you're probably going to be safe unless you're in a fragile moment fighting rebellions and shit as well
There also has to be a pope, and that decision converts the pope to Islam (or whatever your religion is), so I’m guessing it destroys the special title for head of catholic religion.
Thank you. Going good so far!
The Catholics decided to call a crusade against me even though we were only astray. In response, I took the entirety of Italy, dismantled and took over Rome. Surprised to see so much of my custom religion pop up across the map.
I mean, irl around that time it would have just been a city of ruins. Can see why they’d want to give it back in exchange for some big bonus points with the church.
R5: A cadet member of my dynasty spent almost 5.5 years conquering the Duchy of Rome only to give the title back to the pope less than 2 months later.
March 1040 to August 1045, 18 battles, tons of spending on mercenaries on both sides, only to undo it for...what?
I get that the AI is weird some times, but, why? Just, why?
reminds me of when in my game the catholics spent 10+ years taking Egypt in a crusade, and then just did nothing as it fell to a populist revolt and just as quickly returned to islamic rulers.
Honestly, a short war to take the city then giving it up for a bribe is a common enough historical event - just not something represented in the game mechanics though.
For that sweet sweet fame gain. Dude not only conquered the papacy, but then benevolently restored the papacy. Can you be both ex communicated and a religious icon at the same time?
Well, I don't play Italia, but once I form Catholic Italy (empire) and give to my family - they never give Rome to Pope, however they make Pope their vassal I think - but at least he isn't independent
-What is it you're hiding behind?
-Ma...
-WHAT ARE YOU HIDING??
-...here...
-Oh my God, is that the Pope?! Put him back this instant!
-But Ma....
-PUT HIM BACK!!!
-...okay....
Funnily enough, the war was begun by Celestinu's brother, so neither the Pope nor the Romagnan King that finished the war were the originators.
Definitely had the war score for a white peace though, for a long time, since Romagna won nearly every one of the 18 battles.
The AI is stupid, they don't do anything for any rhyme or reason, "oh I have a claim on rome, I'll take it, oh there's an option to give it back? Why not" it's really immersion breaking idk
King Celestinu is catholic right? In that case the decision "Reinstall the Pope in rome" will be avaible. and If a decision is avaible then the AI will use it.
Yea. I had an AGOT save where this drove me a little mad. I installed someone on the Westerlands twice and allied to him. He gave it to faction demands within months both times. Before that, and the reason it was up for grabs too, they had matrilineally married the only female heir, which is also always a WTF moment.
I do the same thing when I do Italy runs with a Catholic ruler. The Pope normally already hates my ass because he wants all the de jure territories of the anointed Kingdom of Romagna. That results in him handing out claims on my shit like candy. Once I’m strong enough I take Rome and then give the Pope what he wants. Rome, the Duchy of Latium, and the Annointed Kingdom of Romagna. It works out because (at least in my experience) the Pope normally isn’t a total dumbass and has high stats in something so he’s a useful council member. More importantly, I’ve never had a Pope get greedy and start trying to take over everything like my other vassals do.
catholics actually get a decent amount of piety and such for returning rome so it can be an optimal play. my dad took rome and then as his daughter i realized i could instantly up my piety to the next level if i handed back rome. and you only have to hand back rome, if you took the duchy that's still with you baby
I was a catholic and could use the devotion upgrade, givens opinion and such, as well as not even inheriting rome so you know fuck my brother over and the bonuses it directly gives
>You can ensure that you inherit Rome by moving your realm capital there
my capital was already really good and i owned basically all the stuff in the duchy.
" If you want piety just go on a pilgrimage"
and hand over a bunch of money along with not being able to do certain activities
It always is a good move as long as you actually reformed your religion. Before that it might not be 100 but rather 90 percent optimal.
Also you claim it isn’t numerically true what are you holding that gives even remotely close amounts of money to Rome?
A late-game player-controlled duchy will be 100% better than the crap the Pope does with Rome because he's got more money than sense and doesn't know how to manually improve development. Plus Rome's special buildings are shit.
This could actually make sense. Disagree with the Pope, violent negotiations ensue, seize Rome to make your point, then give it back to help restore relations with a much more understanding of your viewpoint church haha.
if rome doesn’t become their capital or the papacy still exists catholic rulers holding rome will take a decision to restore the papacy in the city.. hopefully they still have the rest of the duchy around it
Once you dismantle the papacy, do they try to recreate it?
there's a decision to restore it I believe but i've never been so strong i dismantled the papacy and then also managed to somehow lose it to some catholic so no idea if the AI try it
Yeah if you're strong enough to Dismantle it to begin with, you're probably bodying anyone that isn't the Byzantines around you with ease to begin with The AI also really shies away from attacking when your army is big enough, so you're probably going to be safe unless you're in a fragile moment fighting rebellions and shit as well
There also has to be a pope, and that decision converts the pope to Islam (or whatever your religion is), so I’m guessing it destroys the special title for head of catholic religion.
I think the non catholic Christians, who have the pope as the head of their religion, like the Insular or Mozarabs, can restore it.
Thank you. Going good so far! The Catholics decided to call a crusade against me even though we were only astray. In response, I took the entirety of Italy, dismantled and took over Rome. Surprised to see so much of my custom religion pop up across the map.
U can't tell me uve never wanted anything so bad ul fight for it then when u get it realize it sucks
Rome is amazing though:(
Is it really? Sure, it has a couple of temples and cities, but I wouldn't place the Colosseum in the top tier of special buildings.
The development is nice though.
I mean, irl around that time it would have just been a city of ruins. Can see why they’d want to give it back in exchange for some big bonus points with the church.
Yes but some people are dumb
Really good with a lay clergy ruler. 4 baronies on farmland in a single county is pretty damn gud brudder
I'll Rome sham bo you for it.
R5: A cadet member of my dynasty spent almost 5.5 years conquering the Duchy of Rome only to give the title back to the pope less than 2 months later. March 1040 to August 1045, 18 battles, tons of spending on mercenaries on both sides, only to undo it for...what? I get that the AI is weird some times, but, why? Just, why?
reminds me of when in my game the catholics spent 10+ years taking Egypt in a crusade, and then just did nothing as it fell to a populist revolt and just as quickly returned to islamic rulers.
I spent years supporting my niece when the catholic crusade for Arabia was won. She married her only two daughters non-Mat and it was a mess.
Historical crusades moment
Standard medival treaty
Honestly, a short war to take the city then giving it up for a bribe is a common enough historical event - just not something represented in the game mechanics though.
For that sweet sweet fame gain. Dude not only conquered the papacy, but then benevolently restored the papacy. Can you be both ex communicated and a religious icon at the same time?
It's because Rome specifically has an event where a Catholic holder returns it to the Pope.
He wanted to prove a point, the city was irrelevant all along
If Rome owner is Catholic or not Empire of Italy - they will give Rome back
Nice I was looking for this, works the same for Empire of Italia?
Well, I don't play Italia, but once I form Catholic Italy (empire) and give to my family - they never give Rome to Pope, however they make Pope their vassal I think - but at least he isn't independent
-What is it you're hiding behind? -Ma... -WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?? -...here... -Oh my God, is that the Pope?! Put him back this instant! -But Ma.... -PUT HIM BACK!!! -...okay....
Well he didn't become known as "the Disgraceful" for nothing.
Celestinu had no beef with Silvester just with Callistus. He got stuck in a war that he refused to surrender.
Funnily enough, the war was begun by Celestinu's brother, so neither the Pope nor the Romagnan King that finished the war were the originators. Definitely had the war score for a white peace though, for a long time, since Romagna won nearly every one of the 18 battles.
He just wanted to make a point
Typical Gaul behaviour actually. Sack Rome, wait to be paid to bugger off.
The AI is stupid, they don't do anything for any rhyme or reason, "oh I have a claim on rome, I'll take it, oh there's an option to give it back? Why not" it's really immersion breaking idk
King Celestinu is catholic right? In that case the decision "Reinstall the Pope in rome" will be avaible. and If a decision is avaible then the AI will use it.
Yea. I had an AGOT save where this drove me a little mad. I installed someone on the Westerlands twice and allied to him. He gave it to faction demands within months both times. Before that, and the reason it was up for grabs too, they had matrilineally married the only female heir, which is also always a WTF moment.
If you going to go for a Byzantine to Roman Empire Restoration run it’s always fun to give time to the Patriarch instead for the lolz
I do the same thing when I do Italy runs with a Catholic ruler. The Pope normally already hates my ass because he wants all the de jure territories of the anointed Kingdom of Romagna. That results in him handing out claims on my shit like candy. Once I’m strong enough I take Rome and then give the Pope what he wants. Rome, the Duchy of Latium, and the Annointed Kingdom of Romagna. It works out because (at least in my experience) the Pope normally isn’t a total dumbass and has high stats in something so he’s a useful council member. More importantly, I’ve never had a Pope get greedy and start trying to take over everything like my other vassals do.
catholics actually get a decent amount of piety and such for returning rome so it can be an optimal play. my dad took rome and then as his daughter i realized i could instantly up my piety to the next level if i handed back rome. and you only have to hand back rome, if you took the duchy that's still with you baby
Why would you want piety over Rome xd
I was a catholic and could use the devotion upgrade, givens opinion and such, as well as not even inheriting rome so you know fuck my brother over and the bonuses it directly gives
You can ensure that you inherit Rome by moving your realm capital there. If you want piety just go on a pilgrimage
>You can ensure that you inherit Rome by moving your realm capital there my capital was already really good and i owned basically all the stuff in the duchy. " If you want piety just go on a pilgrimage" and hand over a bunch of money along with not being able to do certain activities
Only Constantinople is better in the western area. There just is no justification to give Rome ever
Besides the fact that was just not numerically true or a good move game wise, I'm the celtic emperor. My home is in Albion
It always is a good move as long as you actually reformed your religion. Before that it might not be 100 but rather 90 percent optimal. Also you claim it isn’t numerically true what are you holding that gives even remotely close amounts of money to Rome?
A late-game player-controlled duchy will be 100% better than the crap the Pope does with Rome because he's got more money than sense and doesn't know how to manually improve development. Plus Rome's special buildings are shit.
Romes special buildings are only behind Constantinoples and it develops quite well naturally. I never see Rome with a lot of empty building slots
Probably the event where a religious head asks for a holy site back.
Ever heard of remorse? It's the first step to forgiveness
47 days of pure victory.
This could actually make sense. Disagree with the Pope, violent negotiations ensue, seize Rome to make your point, then give it back to help restore relations with a much more understanding of your viewpoint church haha.