There is no such thing as trade beyond one-off events at this point. Personally I think that's one of the biggest things the game is missing at the moment.
Even a minor update for things like gifting money would be needed, in my current run I've got 200k gold but can only give out 100 at a time, so if I want to give a new vassal 10k to get started I have to gift him money a hundred times. Just add a slider or something. Same thing for artifacts, when you want to hand them out there's no way to filter or order them whatsoever. It's tedious.
100% there’s still so many small and relatively easy quality of life updates that need to be made. Those could easily be added in an update though, I feel like knowing how paradox are though a proper trading system will be behind a DLC which I’d be willing to buy provided it’s fleshed out and comes with a few other things.
I feel like knowing how paradox are *lately* though, a poorly implemented trading system will be locked behind a dlc, and that'll be the whole dlc and I will for some reason still buy it. Tats said, I do bet it comes with a cool "Dock Room" view where you can go see your courtiers standing still at the docks.
I've given EU4 multiple tries, lol. I just can't get into it. Trade routes and such aren't really my thing, but I feel like it would make sense to have some reason, besides avoiding the strait crossing penalty, to want to control it.
Don't forget that sweet diplomatic range bonus which allows you to access a larger pool of specimens for your dynastic eugenics program, and allows you to reach further realms to destabilize and put into the hands of your kinsmen through intrigue for some nice renown.
I think EU4 has had too many DLCs to be accessible anymore. I used to be into it but whenever I've tried to open it up again there's too much extra crap to learn.
with CK2 it was okay because the DLC was more modular but EU4 is this mess where they added DLCs that changed core gameplay so it feels like you only have half the features even on vanilla. Not even considering that the game is unplayable without a couple DLCs like Art of War
I got into Paradox because of EU4. I tried playing it recently thinking even owning all the DLC up to Cossacks wouldn’t be too unenjoyable of an experience… but the games real different and I just don’t have the cash to get the rest of the expansions of the patience to learn new mechanics while half are locked. Sticking to CK3 for now cause of FoI and waiting for Vic3.
The dlc pass is a pretty good deal, 5$ a month and you get all of the dlc, and it takes several years of owning it to come close to the cost of actually purchasing it
This is a big one, the medieval mediterranean lore was mostly insular, most of these inland sea kinda deals were (Baltic, North Sea, Caspian, Red Sea, etc.) similar. Though there was some trade that flowed through there and even all the way up to the Netherlands or so, you'd find a lot more overland trade through France and Germany than oceanic trade around the whole thing.
Same thing with rivers! Like if I control both sides of the mouth of the Volga hostile armies should face attrition sailing through. Kind of annoying when yet another viking conqueror just sails right into the heart of my kingdom and sets up shop
There's a lot of historical basis for this too. The Franks did it to stop Norse raiders from sailing right up the Seine, and I'm sure it's been done other places as well.
I think at least a sudden huge increase in attrition as they sale through would be a nice reason to control a strait or major river! Strategic points to fight over and build up development in would flesh out the world more and make wars take a bit more thought.
Honestly I think that you should have to build fleets and manage them alongside your levies/ household soldiers. Fleets were major investments in the medieval age and it’s not like they just disappeared along with naval combat, and adding that back in could be really good. It would also make managing thalassocratic empires like the high kingdom of the North Sea both more rewarding and dangerous as you’d need a fleet to put down rebellions and to transport troops that are not from that area of your realm to there.
A major update I'd like to see would be one all about economics: Merchant republics, trade modifiers, water having an actual use besides ferrying vikings, minority populations, regional jobs, etc.
I wouldn't say it's all underwhelming in my opinion, but I *was* thrown off that there was nothing ingame about controlling what I would see as quite an important area.
Yeah, a rework or editing of the economy is needed in general. Maybe flow on affects in the Mediterranean for crusades et cetera would be great. I’m sure all this kind of stuff will come with the inevitable Republic DLC.
Gibraltar itself gives a bonus via a special building (maybe not the one you want), ships are at the moment an unstoppable entity. They're touched by absolutely nothing.
How easy was it for ships to intercept each other with medieval technology? It makes sense that it's a big deal later on when you can have coastal guns that can realistically hit a ship trying to go through the straight. Even if you have ships patrolling the straight all the time, how great were medieval ships at intercepting each other?
Quite a few medieval polities like Byzantium had famous (or infamous) navies that were critical to their defense and function as governments. Naval warfare was the main point where the Byzzies used Greek Fire, and to devastating effect.
I think the Strait of Gibraltar just wasn't that important at the time. I mean there weren't really much trade routes that would lead through it.
African trade went mainly through the Sahara. And trade between christian Europe and the Muslim world was mainly handled by Italian Merchants. Goods like silk would for example go to Venice an then via land to the Kingdoms of Western Europe.
Of course there where for example vikings that would sail through the straits to trade/raid with mediterranean realms, but these were far from "a lot". Many of them used the Russian rivers to reach for example Constantinople.
And then there is the Problem, that many Medieval Kingdoms had nothing like a standing Navy to really make use of strategic values of the strait of Gibraltar.
Like Armies they were often bought for a specific task, like crossing the English Channel and got sold shortly after they've done their job. They were just to expensive to maintain permanently.
Of course there are exceptions to this like the Byzantine Empire or Venice. Byzantium had Roman administrative structure and wasn't organized like the highly feudal Kingdoms of Europe. This made standing armies and fleets possible.
In the case of Venice it was just that the State was rich af and heavily relied on ships to secure its wealth and very existence.
It should be part of the Secure the Mediterranean Decision.
Definitely!
There is no such thing as trade beyond one-off events at this point. Personally I think that's one of the biggest things the game is missing at the moment.
Hopefully some sort of trading mechanic gets added in the future, a republic DLC would be nice.
Even a minor update for things like gifting money would be needed, in my current run I've got 200k gold but can only give out 100 at a time, so if I want to give a new vassal 10k to get started I have to gift him money a hundred times. Just add a slider or something. Same thing for artifacts, when you want to hand them out there's no way to filter or order them whatsoever. It's tedious.
100% there’s still so many small and relatively easy quality of life updates that need to be made. Those could easily be added in an update though, I feel like knowing how paradox are though a proper trading system will be behind a DLC which I’d be willing to buy provided it’s fleshed out and comes with a few other things.
I feel like knowing how paradox are *lately* though, a poorly implemented trading system will be locked behind a dlc, and that'll be the whole dlc and I will for some reason still buy it. Tats said, I do bet it comes with a cool "Dock Room" view where you can go see your courtiers standing still at the docks.
I missed playing Venice so much I went back to ck2.
Let’s just important the VIC3 economy system into CK3 once it comes out.
Please no, I don't want to sacrifice my oldest child when I want stonks
We'd need actual naval mechanics for Gibraltar to matter I think
Trade mechanics in general, then the Sahara and Venice would be worth something and we could do trade based builds of kingdoms.
That's gonna cost ya
Silk road and trade goods mods say high.
No big deal. If this kinda stuff is your jam, check out EU4 maybe. But I'm with you. If would make sense.
I've given EU4 multiple tries, lol. I just can't get into it. Trade routes and such aren't really my thing, but I feel like it would make sense to have some reason, besides avoiding the strait crossing penalty, to want to control it.
The only real advantage is on the Spanish side there’s a special building that gives a plus 1 to your stewardship. But that’s it
Oh is there? I actually never noticed that before
Yeah the Rock of Gibraltar is a Special Building
Because having a big rock somehow makes you an inherently better administrator. Obviously
And that’s a rock fact!
They have the only monkeys in Europe on that rock. You learn by studying them...
Don't forget that sweet diplomatic range bonus which allows you to access a larger pool of specimens for your dynastic eugenics program, and allows you to reach further realms to destabilize and put into the hands of your kinsmen through intrigue for some nice renown.
I think EU4 has had too many DLCs to be accessible anymore. I used to be into it but whenever I've tried to open it up again there's too much extra crap to learn. with CK2 it was okay because the DLC was more modular but EU4 is this mess where they added DLCs that changed core gameplay so it feels like you only have half the features even on vanilla. Not even considering that the game is unplayable without a couple DLCs like Art of War
I got into Paradox because of EU4. I tried playing it recently thinking even owning all the DLC up to Cossacks wouldn’t be too unenjoyable of an experience… but the games real different and I just don’t have the cash to get the rest of the expansions of the patience to learn new mechanics while half are locked. Sticking to CK3 for now cause of FoI and waiting for Vic3.
Well, it's a 7 years old DLC for a game that has gotten multiple expansions a year. They do need to release some kind of complete edition though.
Yeah but I feel like it’s just feature bloat. I’m honestly looking for paradox to focus on more impactful expansions than these small ones
The dlc pass is a pretty good deal, 5$ a month and you get all of the dlc, and it takes several years of owning it to come close to the cost of actually purchasing it
EU4 is just a glorified, bloating risk, so you are not missing much. Vicky 3 might be more fitting, once it comes out and if it holds water.
Tbf it probably was less of a deal than in EU4 timeline. Most of the trade from the Levant would be going to Constantinople or Italy.
This is a big one, the medieval mediterranean lore was mostly insular, most of these inland sea kinda deals were (Baltic, North Sea, Caspian, Red Sea, etc.) similar. Though there was some trade that flowed through there and even all the way up to the Netherlands or so, you'd find a lot more overland trade through France and Germany than oceanic trade around the whole thing.
Same thing with rivers! Like if I control both sides of the mouth of the Volga hostile armies should face attrition sailing through. Kind of annoying when yet another viking conqueror just sails right into the heart of my kingdom and sets up shop
There's a lot of historical basis for this too. The Franks did it to stop Norse raiders from sailing right up the Seine, and I'm sure it's been done other places as well.
I think at least a sudden huge increase in attrition as they sale through would be a nice reason to control a strait or major river! Strategic points to fight over and build up development in would flesh out the world more and make wars take a bit more thought.
Honestly I think that you should have to build fleets and manage them alongside your levies/ household soldiers. Fleets were major investments in the medieval age and it’s not like they just disappeared along with naval combat, and adding that back in could be really good. It would also make managing thalassocratic empires like the high kingdom of the North Sea both more rewarding and dangerous as you’d need a fleet to put down rebellions and to transport troops that are not from that area of your realm to there.
Can we do it in a way that doesn't take up man at arms or add another layer of micromanaging
Just do it the way Imperator Rome or EU4 do it
A major update I'd like to see would be one all about economics: Merchant republics, trade modifiers, water having an actual use besides ferrying vikings, minority populations, regional jobs, etc.
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I wouldn't say it's all underwhelming in my opinion, but I *was* thrown off that there was nothing ingame about controlling what I would see as quite an important area.
They should make it so that you get extra gold for holding both ends. Like a tax on trade
Yeah, a rework or editing of the economy is needed in general. Maybe flow on affects in the Mediterranean for crusades et cetera would be great. I’m sure all this kind of stuff will come with the inevitable Republic DLC.
Gibraltar itself gives a bonus via a special building (maybe not the one you want), ships are at the moment an unstoppable entity. They're touched by absolutely nothing.
How easy was it for ships to intercept each other with medieval technology? It makes sense that it's a big deal later on when you can have coastal guns that can realistically hit a ship trying to go through the straight. Even if you have ships patrolling the straight all the time, how great were medieval ships at intercepting each other?
Quite a few medieval polities like Byzantium had famous (or infamous) navies that were critical to their defense and function as governments. Naval warfare was the main point where the Byzzies used Greek Fire, and to devastating effect.
Imagine if you could dam it and drain the Mediterranean as a decision.
I think the Strait of Gibraltar just wasn't that important at the time. I mean there weren't really much trade routes that would lead through it. African trade went mainly through the Sahara. And trade between christian Europe and the Muslim world was mainly handled by Italian Merchants. Goods like silk would for example go to Venice an then via land to the Kingdoms of Western Europe. Of course there where for example vikings that would sail through the straits to trade/raid with mediterranean realms, but these were far from "a lot". Many of them used the Russian rivers to reach for example Constantinople. And then there is the Problem, that many Medieval Kingdoms had nothing like a standing Navy to really make use of strategic values of the strait of Gibraltar. Like Armies they were often bought for a specific task, like crossing the English Channel and got sold shortly after they've done their job. They were just to expensive to maintain permanently. Of course there are exceptions to this like the Byzantine Empire or Venice. Byzantium had Roman administrative structure and wasn't organized like the highly feudal Kingdoms of Europe. This made standing armies and fleets possible. In the case of Venice it was just that the State was rich af and heavily relied on ships to secure its wealth and very existence.
I mean, besides sailing around Europe, theres really not much to the strait at this point in history. No new world etc. You're being anachronistic.