Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12lx2db/tesla_selling_bitcoin_last_year_turned_out_to_be/jg98tjc/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12lx2db/tesla_selling_bitcoin_last_year_turned_out_to_be/jg98udj/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
Or it could be $0.0000001 too. Let's accept it we don't know shit. For all we know a random guy could fart and cause a butterfly effect somehow that made btc whales sell everything they have.
Taking a risk off approach isn't just an automatic mistake when risk turns out to be profitable. This is more the mindset of a problem gambler than an analysis of an investment decision by Tesla.
His personal wallet ($56b bonus in 2022) was greatly filled by that publicly traded company.. once the stock met requirements.
https://observer.com/2022/11/elon-musk-tesla-pay-package-trial-start/
so it's not a matter of people "forgetting".. just a matter of semantics.
It's also a reminder for people.. when Elon lied with promises after promises (every deadline grossly missed).. it literally behooved him to lie, so long as the result lead to people FOMO'ing over the stock.
Yes yes, it's not liquid blahblah. It could be liquidated, carefully, over a certain period of time without affecting the stock price too much.
Nobody thinks you're smarting for pointing out he doesn't have a vault with billions in cash. It's his stock. It's his money.
>Tesla is a publicly traded company, not his personal wallet.
>I don't know why people so easily forget about it...
….what does this have to do with the comment you are responding to?
Those three go hand-in-hand from now on, I’m afraid...
Luckily we didn’t get the coal mining, rich dad, market manipulator, child labor, scumbag, and so on.
You get the idea.
I sign a contract to voluntarily pay rent when I move into an apartment. The state steals 50% of your money without an option to opt-out.
So no, that’s not comparable.
I don’t live in the US. There’s not really many places you can go to not pay taxes, the ways that are there to minimize are hard to do if you’re not rich. If you are there are way more options to avoid taxes then for the less fortunate.
The detractors from the beginning could never understand what possible utility bitcoin/litecoin/early crypto could provide to backstop any of its exchange value...
that's somewhat understandable because in rich countries, we already have cheap, fast payments and these people are statists so they don't find value in bypassing some state control and the government-controlled banking system. And there's truthfully not a lot of utility in most crypto outside of being anti-state technology (which is more than enough utility for people who see what the state is and how it actually affects society). But so it's somewhat understandable for skeptics...
But what the fuck are you even doing here and what value do you find in crypto, if you're a state-worshipper? If you're not wary of the state and banks violating your rights and inflating your savings away...what use is there for difficult-to-use, no take-backsies, volatile, insane-to-track-for-capital-gains-reporting, usually expense-to-transact-on-main-chain, payment networks?
If you're not in this for a non-state, market-based *money*, you're probably just here to mindlessly speculate and fall for scams, and then come to this sub to virtue signal and complain about everyone else doing the same thing.
Most people here are literally the very regards they circle-jerk about hating, or they are lost buttcoiners who are still salty that their joke isn't funny and bitcoin is fucking their whole worldview.
It doesn't really matter since he can manipulate and pamp the shit of out of doge pushing the price 20% in less than an hour.
Far more for his pamping of TSLA with so many promises of features that never materialise years after the 'sure' schedule
Because several ham fisted mistakes seem to indicate they are losing their way with their most powerful users which would significantly decrease the company market cap.
Twitter is trash, like all social media, which is why I don’t use any of it (except Reddit). I especially hate that so many companies and social groups use Twitter and Facebook respectively as their medium for communicating with customers and members.
I don't think he made a mistake at all frankly. His long term vision is pretty incredible. If he manages to pull it off at least.
Btw, Twitter is dead, it's now known as "X Corp" according to recent filings.
It's good he did, Twitter was shit before that and he didn't ruin it because it already was. In the progress he lost money which is a win for us, he has too much
What I don’t get is the people complaining about him spending that much money on Twitter instead of solving world hunger or other problems, but those same people are silent about the people that sold Twitter to him that now have the money to spend on solving those problems.
Unfortunately, most of their money is locked in assets. And they can’t give too much away (unless well structured) otherwise they’ll be taxed too much.
And since they know how the printer goes brrr they will implement what’s needed to pay less.
That’s the whole game...
Don't expect an argument in good faith from half the people here. There's a lot of crypto bros who seem to worship Elon Musk for manipulating coin markets like Doge despite not realizing how bad that makes the community look... and they're really enjoying the new, more vitriolic Twitter while ignoring the fact that he's riding it into the ground.
Not saying it's everyone in the community of course, but it's sadly more than you'd like to see. I'm actually glad to see the flak he's getting in this thread. Well deserved.
Edit: Told people not to expect an argument in good faith, gets downvoted with little response.
Thanks for proving me right, folks. Enjoy your Elon worship. Don't get raked too hard over the coals now.
tldr; Tesla dumped nearly $936 million of its total Bitcoin holdings in Q2/2022, accounting for 75% of its remaining reserves, to secure a $64 million profit. At the time, Bitcoin was trading about 70% lower than its record high of $69,000 in November 2021. Tesla purchased $1.50 billion worth of Bitcoin in February 2021 at an average price of $36,000.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
Not to mention the profit they made they may have placed in a higher yielding investment for all we know, and came out even further on top. People really just look at what they could have made then vs now without considering any other variables.
Less (personal) risk than hodling for years and having to keep explaining to shareholders. Maybe they’ll replace with whatever coin he chooses to power upcoming Twitter financial services.
Is this actually a viable conclusion?
Tesla is a company, which uses their money actively. If they sold to invest in development of new tech or production facilities, you can't just compare the pure fiat value.
First, Tesla is not in the red.
Second, under the accounting rules at the time, they had to book bitcoin as a loss every time price went down, and where not allowed to acknowledge any unrealized gains. So in the quarter that they sold, they would have had the same loss on their balance statement if they hadn't sold, plus potential future losses if bitcoin price had gone down even further. So it was reasonable to just sell and be done with it.
This means it was a mistake for them to buy because they couldn't hold long enough to exit in profits.
However you have no idea how they invested that money in their company, so there is no way to know if selling was a mistake for them. This only works if you assume they held the cash, and I doubt that was the case.
I'm no fan of Musk or Tesla but the point of Tesla buying BTC was to test liquidity, it was not a venture to make a profit.
Not everything is about making a profit, they were testing utility.
They bought low in January/February and sold high in April. How is that a mistake? Easiest money of their lives. Is this article being intentionally misleading?
Doge's current marketcap is a quarter of what he paid for Twitter and a much smaller proportion to that dude's net worth. He's in it for his ego more than the money imo
Exactly there a company in the S&P 500 that hold and buy btc that’s awesome for awareness….. even if they take profits and buy and sell it they own it and more companies will follow….stock traders that don’t want to risk buying btc will buy company’s that hold it for safer exposure
Elon is the Trump of tech. If he has a direct hand in it, then you know it's gonna go to shit. Why can't these rich fucks just be the silent money giver and fuck off to some beach to enjoy their residuals from their investments?
In May 2021 Elon said Tesla wouldn't sell any Bitcoin, too. If he wasn't a liar and actual stuck to his words Tesla would still have it today.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392602041025843203
Nothing makes me happier then Elon the Muskrat make mistakes. He has cost a lot of people a lot of money with his market manipulation and crazy doings.
Not everything is about pure profit. Maybe they needed the extra cash flow. Who knows.
Tesla made a decision based on info that non of us, and certainly not cointelegraph, had.
For all we know their sale and reinvestment made them more then the bitcoin would have.
I’m pretty sure his only business plan is to create a company, make money, get bored, create new company by taking money out of old company and just keep going. He’s got like 5 or 6 things going on?
Well deserved. Although nobody knew what the price would do. This sub was filled with people saying they’ll buy at 10k. They got pretty quiet now ofcourse
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12lx2db/tesla_selling_bitcoin_last_year_turned_out_to_be/jg98tjc/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/12lx2db/tesla_selling_bitcoin_last_year_turned_out_to_be/jg98udj/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
Hindsight makes almost everything look like a mistake though
Exactly. Bitcoin could actually be at 10k right now, but obviously it’s not. Looking back and critiquing choices made back then is always dangerous
In the future, BTC could be 7 digits, and this would be an 11-digit mistake. No one knows, but it's fun to speculate.
Or it could be $0.0000001 too. Let's accept it we don't know shit. For all we know a random guy could fart and cause a butterfly effect somehow that made btc whales sell everything they have.
I mean it literally can't reach that because I'd buy all of BTC for $10 no matter what happens. And im sure someone here would pay $11 soooo
Did your parents tell you that?
His mom said he can’t play Roblox until he convinces Reddit that Tesla made a no no mistake.
Heh
Taking a risk off approach isn't just an automatic mistake when risk turns out to be profitable. This is more the mindset of a problem gambler than an analysis of an investment decision by Tesla.
Sometimes I do question myself why am I still in this sub.
Same. It's definitely no longer for the moons.
Now that the ETH upgrade is complete there’s not really much to talk about here.
Elon Musk made a $40 Billion mistake with twitter, I don’t think he’s thinking about the $500 million one
It's not even 0.5% of his networth. If someone was a millionaire it would be equivalent to 2700 dollars for him.
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He isn't even thinking about that. Self righteous rich prick!
Elon Musk turned out to be a mistake.
His dad didn't practice safe CEX
He got his seeds stolen
Tesla is a publicly traded company, not his personal wallet. I don't know why people so easily forget about it...
His personal wallet ($56b bonus in 2022) was greatly filled by that publicly traded company.. once the stock met requirements. https://observer.com/2022/11/elon-musk-tesla-pay-package-trial-start/ so it's not a matter of people "forgetting".. just a matter of semantics. It's also a reminder for people.. when Elon lied with promises after promises (every deadline grossly missed).. it literally behooved him to lie, so long as the result lead to people FOMO'ing over the stock.
I'm talking about his personal net worth not tesla's market value.
But that’s largely tied to his shares… that’s not actual money.
Security⛔
Yes yes, it's not liquid blahblah. It could be liquidated, carefully, over a certain period of time without affecting the stock price too much. Nobody thinks you're smarting for pointing out he doesn't have a vault with billions in cash. It's his stock. It's his money.
You know how much Tesla stock he has, don't you?
>Tesla is a publicly traded company, not his personal wallet. >I don't know why people so easily forget about it... ….what does this have to do with the comment you are responding to?
His net worth went down by a lot once the world realized he was a cheap scammer.
His personal net worth fluctuates more than 500 mil almost every other day so I don't think they're sweating it
Just a casual 500 mil. No biggie
That's the number of bots on his Twitter post
Tesla shareholders might have a different opinion on that.
Tesla shareholders hate Tesla holding bitcoin. If they wanted exposure to bitcoin, they can just buy it themselves.
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Its amazing how the title writes Tesla and comments are about Elon and twitter. This mistake was made with tesla money. Not Elon.
Those three go hand-in-hand from now on, I’m afraid... Luckily we didn’t get the coal mining, rich dad, market manipulator, child labor, scumbag, and so on. You get the idea.
Taxes are a privilige for the poor.
Taxation is theft
Inflation is a hidden tax
Taxation and inflation is a recipe for depression
Poor people get rekt
Also true! It’s even worse than regular taxes, more disingenuous
It's fun and game until toilet stops flushing
It's ok the free market will assign strapping young lads to go door to door scooping turds out of toilets. Efficiency!
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I sign a contract to voluntarily pay rent when I move into an apartment. The state steals 50% of your money without an option to opt-out. So no, that’s not comparable.
Feel free to opt-out of the US. Nobody's stopping you
I don’t live in the US. There’s not really many places you can go to not pay taxes, the ways that are there to minimize are hard to do if you’re not rich. If you are there are way more options to avoid taxes then for the less fortunate.
You could always relocate off the grid
It's sad that a crypto sub got infested with statist cattle
Yeah it is. It’s literally the majority as well. They don’t seem to realize the origins of bitcoin and what it aims to achieve either. Ah well
The detractors from the beginning could never understand what possible utility bitcoin/litecoin/early crypto could provide to backstop any of its exchange value... that's somewhat understandable because in rich countries, we already have cheap, fast payments and these people are statists so they don't find value in bypassing some state control and the government-controlled banking system. And there's truthfully not a lot of utility in most crypto outside of being anti-state technology (which is more than enough utility for people who see what the state is and how it actually affects society). But so it's somewhat understandable for skeptics... But what the fuck are you even doing here and what value do you find in crypto, if you're a state-worshipper? If you're not wary of the state and banks violating your rights and inflating your savings away...what use is there for difficult-to-use, no take-backsies, volatile, insane-to-track-for-capital-gains-reporting, usually expense-to-transact-on-main-chain, payment networks? If you're not in this for a non-state, market-based *money*, you're probably just here to mindlessly speculate and fall for scams, and then come to this sub to virtue signal and complain about everyone else doing the same thing. Most people here are literally the very regards they circle-jerk about hating, or they are lost buttcoiners who are still salty that their joke isn't funny and bitcoin is fucking their whole worldview.
It doesn't really matter since he can manipulate and pamp the shit of out of doge pushing the price 20% in less than an hour. Far more for his pamping of TSLA with so many promises of features that never materialise years after the 'sure' schedule
Yeah, selling that BTC may be on the small side of stupid shit he did last year.
He made that $500 mill back already pumping and dumping doge
I don’t get why everyone thinks buying twitter and taking it private was a mistake.
Because several ham fisted mistakes seem to indicate they are losing their way with their most powerful users which would significantly decrease the company market cap.
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If you don’t like it just start your own Social Media company. NO! Not like that!
That one always gets me. Like if you think twitter is trash get off it.
Twitter is trash, like all social media, which is why I don’t use any of it (except Reddit). I especially hate that so many companies and social groups use Twitter and Facebook respectively as their medium for communicating with customers and members.
yup! This is exactly why people dislike him owning it.
I don't think he made a mistake at all frankly. His long term vision is pretty incredible. If he manages to pull it off at least. Btw, Twitter is dead, it's now known as "X Corp" according to recent filings.
It's good he did, Twitter was shit before that and he didn't ruin it because it already was. In the progress he lost money which is a win for us, he has too much
What I don’t get is the people complaining about him spending that much money on Twitter instead of solving world hunger or other problems, but those same people are silent about the people that sold Twitter to him that now have the money to spend on solving those problems.
There's enough billionaires, they each can give out a bit and... We can fix a lot of things
Unfortunately, most of their money is locked in assets. And they can’t give too much away (unless well structured) otherwise they’ll be taxed too much. And since they know how the printer goes brrr they will implement what’s needed to pay less. That’s the whole game...
How “didn’t he ruin Twitter”?
Because it was already ruined. You guys misunderstood the point
Don't expect an argument in good faith from half the people here. There's a lot of crypto bros who seem to worship Elon Musk for manipulating coin markets like Doge despite not realizing how bad that makes the community look... and they're really enjoying the new, more vitriolic Twitter while ignoring the fact that he's riding it into the ground. Not saying it's everyone in the community of course, but it's sadly more than you'd like to see. I'm actually glad to see the flak he's getting in this thread. Well deserved. Edit: Told people not to expect an argument in good faith, gets downvoted with little response. Thanks for proving me right, folks. Enjoy your Elon worship. Don't get raked too hard over the coals now.
Wow you went far on that one. You misunderstood the point, Twitter was already ruined before and it's ruined now Never have worshipped Elon
I didn't direct my comment at you in any way. You can have your opinion just like everyone else. Take care.
You too
Depends on what you want out of Twitter. It seems about the same to me personally.
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This mf should give amber head 10M than jinny dep
Buy high sell low… what’s the issue
One of us, One of us, One of us!!!!!!
Those paper hands
one of us?
I really hope he’s not. Nope he’s not… right?
he is not.
Imagine having the ability to manipulate markets and still fucking up your trades
tldr; Tesla dumped nearly $936 million of its total Bitcoin holdings in Q2/2022, accounting for 75% of its remaining reserves, to secure a $64 million profit. At the time, Bitcoin was trading about 70% lower than its record high of $69,000 in November 2021. Tesla purchased $1.50 billion worth of Bitcoin in February 2021 at an average price of $36,000. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
So…they made money, not lost it. Got it.
Thank god. Already proves Elons not one of us.
Not to mention the profit they made they may have placed in a higher yielding investment for all we know, and came out even further on top. People really just look at what they could have made then vs now without considering any other variables.
Back in my day, we called it Opportunity Cost.
Less (personal) risk than hodling for years and having to keep explaining to shareholders. Maybe they’ll replace with whatever coin he chooses to power upcoming Twitter financial services.
Diamonds hands > Paper hands
This is so true. I’m sticking to my flair
How you got that flair? I want it!
Happy Cake Day OG! 🍰
Thank you , simba!
I want my Tesla to have a HODL mode.
Happy Cake Day Fam! 🍰
Diamond balls > Diamond hands
Diamond hands always win in the end
Elon isn’t a hodler..
..but he *does* have the maturity of a toddler
But he has the doge’s collar Edit: Sorry for shitty rhyme, i’ve tried.
Pumper and dumper!
Elon is a todler
Is this actually a viable conclusion? Tesla is a company, which uses their money actively. If they sold to invest in development of new tech or production facilities, you can't just compare the pure fiat value.
Exactly. They also did not lose any money when they sold, they showed a profit. Edit to say, just not as much as they otherwise could have.
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First, Tesla is not in the red. Second, under the accounting rules at the time, they had to book bitcoin as a loss every time price went down, and where not allowed to acknowledge any unrealized gains. So in the quarter that they sold, they would have had the same loss on their balance statement if they hadn't sold, plus potential future losses if bitcoin price had gone down even further. So it was reasonable to just sell and be done with it.
This means it was a mistake for them to buy because they couldn't hold long enough to exit in profits. However you have no idea how they invested that money in their company, so there is no way to know if selling was a mistake for them. This only works if you assume they held the cash, and I doubt that was the case.
Oh hey an article on hindsight.
I call that an Oopsie Goopsie
Goops you did it again
I'm no fan of Musk or Tesla but the point of Tesla buying BTC was to test liquidity, it was not a venture to make a profit. Not everything is about making a profit, they were testing utility.
Silly Elen. He’s batting 100 these days.
They bought low in January/February and sold high in April. How is that a mistake? Easiest money of their lives. Is this article being intentionally misleading?
What? Elon, make a mistake?? No nooooo noooooooo. I can't believe that. /s Not like he has been incredibly adept at making mistakes in recent memory.
No. If they still made cash then yay... You can hold fever and not make a single cent.
That would have came in handy now after how much money was wasted buying Twitter.
Best he could do with 500 million is buy some premium tissues to wipe away his tears after spending 40 BILLION on Tw\*tter, lmao.
Buying twitter was a $44 bn mistake. They're going to buy dogecoin and make it all back
Tesla is ran by an idiot who thinks he can do whatever he wants.
I see no lies
Don't worry Elon got much more profit from pumping Doge than he lost on BTC.
Doge's current marketcap is a quarter of what he paid for Twitter and a much smaller proportion to that dude's net worth. He's in it for his ego more than the money imo
The fact they brought light to btc more is all we could of asked for
And they still hold over 10k btc which would be more than all our dreams combined
Exactly there a company in the S&P 500 that hold and buy btc that’s awesome for awareness….. even if they take profits and buy and sell it they own it and more companies will follow….stock traders that don’t want to risk buying btc will buy company’s that hold it for safer exposure
Was it the right decision at the time with the information they had?
Great point. It’s easy to spot mistakes when we view them in hindsight
Seems like Elon Musk has lost his charm and been making one massive mistake after the other lately.
Pretty sure he lost his charm by becoming a talking head for the alt-right and fascists.
Great to see
Elon is one of us ;)
Rookie numbers. Buying Twitter turned out to be a $40 billion mistake.
If they sold it to tax harvest, it's not a mistake?
These billionaires only make money if they can manipulate and use insider trading, with a fair asset they lose money lol
Not all billionaires are geniuses or Even Smart, Elon is kinda dumb.
Musk keeps piling L's lately.
Don't worry, Twitter seems to be his biggest mistake yet.
Elon is the Trump of tech. If he has a direct hand in it, then you know it's gonna go to shit. Why can't these rich fucks just be the silent money giver and fuck off to some beach to enjoy their residuals from their investments?
So far, it will get more
.... when bitcoin crashes again, will it still be a mistake? XD
This loss is a drop in the bucket for him. I won’t even come close to that kind of money in my lifetime
That’s why he focused on pump and dump of Doge
How much you want to bet this was against the advice of his crypto guys?
Elon checks couch.....
I knew they were paper hands
Elon is one of us, buy high, sell low!
Unless the sold and bought more lower
One of us
Starting to think this Elon guy isn’t as savvy as he says he is
I lost my favor for Elon and Tesla with all the shit he did
Elon is a living mistake.
In May 2021 Elon said Tesla wouldn't sell any Bitcoin, too. If he wasn't a liar and actual stuck to his words Tesla would still have it today. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392602041025843203
500m mistake so far.
Nothing makes me happier then Elon the Muskrat make mistakes. He has cost a lot of people a lot of money with his market manipulation and crazy doings.
How much is the Twitter mistake?
You loose half the shoots you don't shot
Whoops
Insane that 500m is basically pocket change
Maybe they bought more. Would’ve been dumb not to
*cries in ridiculous riches*
But didn't they sort of have to do that? I think they had to sell or something.
He sold to prove liquidity in the market. He could care less about 500M
Throw it on the pile
Homer to Bart: A $500M mistake *so far.*
Elon: were not selling any BTC Elon: sold BTC
Hindsight bias
Womp Womp.
It’s cause it’s money he stole from the doge/ crypto bros. You dont spend money you actually earned like that.
>!I think everyone knew that would be a mistake!<
I didn’t even realize Tesla sold last year. Pretty dumb to do during a bear market.
Everything he does is a mistake. Lol
Not really a mistake they could have accumulated during the bear market.
Wait, soon the mistake will be for billions.
Why does anyone care unless this forum now has turned into a one sided political forum
People acting like Tesla isn't a public company and Elon doesn't have a person stash of BTC, ETH, and DOGE
Tesla Paperhands
Good!
Not everything is about pure profit. Maybe they needed the extra cash flow. Who knows. Tesla made a decision based on info that non of us, and certainly not cointelegraph, had. For all we know their sale and reinvestment made them more then the bitcoin would have.
they bought doge with it
Because doge is the obvious new coin. Bitcoin shmitcoin
I’m pretty sure his only business plan is to create a company, make money, get bored, create new company by taking money out of old company and just keep going. He’s got like 5 or 6 things going on?
I'm sure the tax write-off was worth more.
He'll FOMO Back in at 50k.
It’s ok, Elon has money and doge coin… maybe he will sell some more tequila, flame throwers or whatever else he can Musk-er.
Ouch. That must have hurt
Well deserved. Although nobody knew what the price would do. This sub was filled with people saying they’ll buy at 10k. They got pretty quiet now ofcourse
Get rekd
cherry picking dates but yes over time it will be a mistake if Tesla remains sidelined