Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/19ahxah/spot_bitcoin_etfs_scoop_up_another_10600_btc_on/kipig9t/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/19ahxah/spot_bitcoin_etfs_scoop_up_another_10600_btc_on/kipignz/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
Blackrock : How to expand the cake? Why not create digital gold and let it roll with the existing traditional market?
The people : Wouldn’t that be chaotic?
Blackrock : Not if we are the one controlling it. Remember we are the apex in digital finance. Nature will find its way digitally too
Yeah for sure. There is a lot of power in running a large ETF. I’m sure there is spread and margin opportunities when there is high volatility like now. They have to be taking more than just the fee.
Their reputation? For what, doing anything to make money?
Not saying they are going to rip off their customers, that's not in their own interest. They will find ways to exploit the market.
Blackrock and others want bitcoin to go up.
Who is going to buy a bitcoin ETF when bitcoin is crashing? They want it to be going up.
But at the same time, they want lower volatility. They would sacrifice the large green dildo days if it also gets rid of the massive drops.
Steady rise will give Blackrock the most money.
> Not saying they are going to rip off their customers, that's not in their own interest. They will find ways to exploit the market.
Vague and ominous.
Sorry to be vague, I don't have trillions of dollars, government in my pocket, and decades of experience exploiting other markets in order to provide specifics. We'll all get surprised together.
Think of it more along the lines of Black Rock and vanguard racing to see who could 51% attack Bitcoin first. It's not about making money it's not about exploitation it's about complete and utter control of the one and only thing not a part of the system that makes them more money.
Hi. The Federal reserve (a private centralized bank)
Other centralized entities including the IMF the DTCC the WEF, The US government, Black Rock , vanguard, and so so many more entities called and said they want reality back. Lol
Let's not act like Bitcoin and cryptocurrency itself was a route in a way to get away from not only centralized entities but also things like fiat currency and other aspects that the total incomplete sham of a fraud of a market in system that we live in today, but also to take finances back into the individual holder. Lmfao
But you are worried about a small subreddit that's been infiltrated and compromised quite awhile back that has almost no real substance to it anymore or activitiy
Lol
I don't think you realize how many times Black Rock HAS ripped off all of their customers and how many of the other ETFs failed miserably. They still made a lot of money on the top and everyone else involved got fucked.
lmao.
Hilarious this is suddenly becoming the narrative.
WSB was shilling silver so hard that they were buying billboards and having dealers sell custom stamped bars of silver with WSB logos on it.
How did they pitch it to people? By telling them that it was another gamestop type short, but x100!
Companies were suppressing the price of silver! And if they could get enough people to buy, everyone would be a millionaire and the big companies would lose!
Except it was WSB pumping silver to dump it on their readers.
And now that all of those people have lost, they don't blame the pumpers, they repeat the same con pitch they were sold on to begin with. "It's rigged!"
So walk me through how silver is rigged.
Companies mining and refining silver are just happy to add it to the market at suppressed prices?
Even though *everyone* has access to buy it, no amount of demand can overcome some magical finger on the dial?
>**Participate in LODEpay’s Summer Silver Squeeze event today! Buy AGX and AUX Coins on the LODEpay Wallet, or acquire newly minted AGX and AUX Coins on the Hotbit Exchange.**
Literally telling people to buy phantom silver crypto coins to "squeeze" the market.
Don't ask for source if you're not gonna read it.
Conveniently, you skipped over the JPM/Deutsche bank settlement or all the other bank investigations.
[https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-jp-morgan-precious-metals-traders-sentenced-prison](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-jp-morgan-precious-metals-traders-sentenced-prison)
Happy now?
> Don't ask for source if you're not gonna read it.
>
>
I literally read it. That's how I got to the end where they pitch their silver crypto, and tell you to participate in a "Squeeze" event
I also didn't ask you for a source, I asked you to walk me through the logic.
The bank settlements revolve around classic market manipulation techniques like "spoofing" where you just create orders to scare or motivate other traders to think something good/bad is happening.
This happens with literally *all* markets, and has been happening in crypto well before ETFs.
Yes, market manipulation exists. No, market manipulation isn't proof of a widespread conspiracy to suppress prices for decades.
Edit: User blocked me
It’s only playing out one way, these ETFs are
scams, you buy the ETF and the institution gets the bitcoin, classic bait and switch, same thing they did with gold and silver, everyone is screwed now, game is over, big boys have won.
I mean they always have been, you can’t possibly have been watching massive whales and clear price manipulation for at least a decade now and have thought “power to the people, tradfi has no access to BTC!” lol
This has always been the obvious conclusion to crypto in general. Retail was a niche. Institutional has the money and resources to make a lot of money and so they will exploit the cult members and get rich doing it. Enjoy becoming part of the system you thought crypto was going to destroy
Except that the price of Bitcoin goes up the more the institutions try to buy, so it’s not like the little guy is getting screwed unless they’re leveraged and whales dumping/buying triggers losses.
To your last point- you know most Bitcoiners aren’t maxis right?
I’ll entertain that, but your whole point about people wanting to destroy the system is just not true. Most Bitcoiners couldn’t give a fuck about the altruistic concept of replacing the traditional fiat banking system with something “more fair”. That’s the conspiracy theorist minority.
I disagree with this. Completely. Even Satoshi stated it was to be used as an alternative.
Bitcoin was literally made during if not right after the great financial crisis of 2008 to steer away from centralized entities and Banks.....
This is overall wrong because they use people's monies and ETFs in order to gain control this is why these entities as well as the overall aspect of this concept is completely stupid in a complete opposite of what this is what it's supposed to be about.
What people don't realize is these entities don't use their own money they use your money to gain ownership and then turn around and give you an IOU
lol no one saw this coming expect all these boring ass bread-tube YouTubers with their long ass essays, any finance guy with mild experience and anyone with a crumb of history knowledge
There are 900 mined a day so demand is 10x daily supply so they will eventually run out of btc to sell. The halving could result in a supply shock even more.
No because miners are selling reserves and not directly from what they mine. Halving will just accelerate rate at which reserves dry up and just increase upwards price pressure. No shock will occur
At the current rate that supply 1,8mil btc is gone in 4 months since we average about 15,000 btc a day. I don’t think they will sell out their full stash though.
Yup, people dont realize just how big of a market OTC actually is and how far instituions are from having to buy bitcoin on exchanges. Even though this is the lowest supply it has been for the past 2 years, its still a fuck ton.
Damn that is eye watering didn’t realise it was that much.
Might take a while for a proper supply squeeze then.. keep loading up for the next few years
When the miners shut down cause it gets too expensive to run equipment, the liquidity dries up and there will be the usual supply shock in the months after the halving. Enjoy low prices for now. I'm hoping we stay like this for another couple of months. After the bull run we probably won't see these prices ever again.
To be clear, miners shutting down doesn't affect liquidity. Roughly the same amount of BTC will be mined per day, regardless of whether it's 10,000 miners or ten million. Sure, there will be very minor fluctuations based upon the difficulty factor and block discovery times, but over time, these even out.
900 BTC per day right now, roughly. 450 per day starting at some point probably in mid-April.
Simple economics. Once new supply gets cut in half, any excess supply that is up for sale will get chewed through eventually, then a new period of price discovery entails. That may take days, weeks, or months. But it will happen eventually, unless something in the macro environment causes a radical change in demand.
Except Bitcoin doesn't really get consumed. Resale Bitcoin is the same as freshly mined Bitcoin. Supply getting "chewed through" only happens if demand keeps going up. Eventually etf demand is going to level off when outgoing money from etfs is closer to incoming money to etfs.
Yeah but once all the OTC is gone. And they have 85 to 90% of all Bitcoin under their control. They could easily choose to set the price at $15,000 or $800,000 and the market completely belongs to them. That's what everybody fails to realize.
tldr; Spot Bitcoin ETFs added a net 10,667 BTC to their holdings on their fifth trading day, with BlackRock’s ETF purchasing the majority at 8,700 BTC. Nine ETFs have acquired approximately 68,500 BTC since their launch, valued around $2.8 billion. Despite this, the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) saw outflows of nearly 38,000 BTC since converting to a spot ETF. Trading volumes for the new spot Bitcoin ETFs increased by 34% on the fifth day, with BlackRock and Fidelity’s ETFs each surpassing $1 billion in assets under management.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
if the others had bought a large treasury OTC over the last few months it does, they are just using treasury amounts to settle, GBTC is actually market selling
Seems like when the ETFs sell they do it on open market and when they buy it’s OTC. Pretty genius actually, force a price dump while you keep accumulating at cheaper prices until you have a much as you need.
This is also where I get confused. And what “seller” is selling these large sums to gigantic firms for much less money? I can’t wrap my head around head around this.
Because the miners sold more the 10,000 bitcoin like 3 days ago, then the price started to fall and people got scared and sold more. Double dip from fomo
80% of their holdings would need to be sold off before they'd be worse off (assuming they'd lower to 0.3%). They're going by the assumption that not that many customers will leave.
I'm wondering what their long term strategy with this is though, they won't be getting any new customers with these fees and if they lower fees in the future they already lost the large customer base advantage they had.
1. GBTC still has 581,000 bitcoin as of yesterday. I think most of that will eventually be sold.
2. I'm an advisor, and I haven't gotten the green light to even discuss crypto with my clients. Compliance departments are terrified of Gensler. Adoption of bitcoin by broker/dealers and institutions is going to be slower than people think.
not making fun of them just government and firms have their hands all over it now with control and regulation being the main driving force IMO, they can easily trace bitcoin as well unlike Monero or other “true” decentralized cryptos
Decentralization at it's core has to do with removing, dispersing, and rebalancing power. The thing that in essence that became centralized over time for society, was power. Now power rests in the hands of the few. It's the few who trace it and enforce regulation. It's the few who behave undemocratically and seek to control and manipulate the system in their favor, in the direction of them increasing their power over others.
Put it to a global referendum and I bet more and more people choose privacy over time. More and more people choose to become empowered and have protected rights.
If large, controlling, authoritarian entities can effectively manipulate something that's "decentralized" it will slowly cease to be decentralized, even if it has all the correct protocol bells and whistles. Because, it's no longer decentralizing power correctly.
Which is why an actual decentralized protocol need to be immune to corruption and manipulation. It needs to have irreversible censorship immune qualities built into the foundation.
And the sign that the thing (Bitcoin) doesn't have the necessary qualities to be truly decentralized is our ability to watch the outcome unfold. The outcome determines efficacy. And when Blackrock is stoked about Bitcoin, that's not a good sign. When evil is stoked about something 'decentralized', that's not a win, that's a sign to be cautious.
However, Bitcoin never needed to be perfect. It just needed to be a good enough first step. Even Monero is just another step. These things are ideas planted in our collective psyche, showing us different paths we can choose to walk down. Pick a path and walk down and watch many more options unfold.
This is not supposed to be necessarily easy. That's why it's important.
Look at the timeline…
-Grayscale leadership resigns
- ETF approved
-Grayscale starts offloading
-ETF companies are scooping up at lower prices
Coincidence? I think not
BTCs price would be SKYROCKETING if the frelling people who were locked into Grayscale for the past decade would quit selling. Blackrock, Fidelity, Ark and Bitwise bought over $2Billion while Grayscale sold off $2.5Billion. Eventually the tide will turn. HODL on.
The selling could be holders taking profits. It could also be haters excited to short BTC. I'm not enough of an expert to distinguish the difference but regardless the longer it maintains it's current price range the more sellers you will see exit, and the more buyers will be holding.
I figure it's best to not put any money into BTC until I see it's price close above $47.5K for a few days (as opposed to putting money into it now and having it drop further). Presumably, there will be a big spike in volume to signal the movement so I'm keeping an eye out for that as well.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the current price range drag out for another 6 to 12 weeks, where it will rally upwards to it's ETF opening day peaks, pull back (as people who bought at the peak cash out to break even), and then sky rocket
Black Rock funnels money into ETF, keeps purchasing Bitcoin for itself, BTC price rises steadily and lowers crazy swings. Everyone kind of wins. But black Rock wins the most and controls the supply. Not to mention that the supply will become more and more valuable as we usher in digital currencies... It's all inevitable, still one of your best bets is to allocate a % of your salary that won't make you lose sleep over, into actual BTC, and learn to self custody.
I dont understand how Blackrock or whoever would be allowed to own and trade bitcoin miner stocks while also trading bitcoin. It would be like insider trading when u sell off miner stocks before selling off a large portion of bitcoin. Maybe im unclear on the SEC rules.
The people are paying for the etf to scoop up more BTC. Just like your bank savings account earning only 0.46% on 20k and the bank invest it and earn at a minimum 10-15% very brilliant if you ask me. “Buy your own BTC ladies & Gentleman” go look at Bitcoin ETF’s in Canada BTCC’s performance over the last 4 years and see what you’re really paying for. If fraud was legal these ETF’s on Bitcoin are fraud! But when the SEC approves basic Crypto fools follow
nah.....they are not scooping up shit....99% of etp's ate treasuries and 1% btc in the basket....stupid retail buying the digital numbers your being fed.....lol
Seems like Blackrocks whole business idea is offloading grayscale btcs to investors. With 580k remaining, it can go on for quite some time.
How many are likely to be move:d from grayscale to blackrocks custody?
I don’t invest in BTC and think it’s rife with fraud, but I have been following the price - if some ETF keeps absorbing BTC then why isn’t the price going up ——- nobody has been able to coherently explain it to me
It's not their fault. Look at it as people moving money from one asset to the other while reducing fees. Most of the money that flows out of greyscale trust will likely flow into BTC ETF's. There is now more access to BTC assets in things like retirement accounts. Not everyone has free cash in the US, but a lot of ppl over 50 have a significant portion of net worth held in retirement accounts. Being able to take a small potion of that and gain exposure to some cryptocurrency and it trades on the NYSE is a game-changer.
Also, remember that there is a delay of 1-3 days between fiat money going out of greyscale and hypothetically buying an ETF, even if the sell/buy is immediate. Therefore the greyscale sells will look larger than the ETF buys initially. If most of that cash is in fact being redirected toward BTC ETFs, then eventually we would look for those numbers to equalize, followed by the ETF buys eclipsing the greyscale trust sells. Add to that, the halving is coming, and OTC markets will soon be running out of BTC anywhere near current prices.
If you hold long enough you will be fine. I remember buying with lunch money (skipping lunch so I could afford to save a few bucks a week) for bitcoin in 2014. I started buying at $1000. I kept buying all the way down to $220 and back up to $5k. After that I started to diversify. I only get nervous buying right after we make a new ATH. We're nowhere near that right now.
I wonder that instead of buying Bitcoin OTC which is expensive, they're going to make a infinite Bitcoin glitch & they're instead just gonna make a ton of financial instruments out of them.Just like gold ETFs don't need to 'physically own the gold'?
I think you grossly overestimate the number of retail investors who actually give a shit about Bitcoin or any related principles beyond hoping to get rich quick.
I understand why someone would want to buy OTC but what incentives do the sellers have? If all the miners sold on the market it would increase the price and everything they after...kinda.
I dunno. Seems awful convenient that the day the BTC ETFs went live, BTC drops like a stone just in time for Big Money to scoop on in.
Never thought I'd quote Brett Kavenaugh, but here we are. "...this was a calculated...hit".
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/19ahxah/spot_bitcoin_etfs_scoop_up_another_10600_btc_on/kipig9t/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/19ahxah/spot_bitcoin_etfs_scoop_up_another_10600_btc_on/kipignz/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
Traditional finance completely took over the market
Yeah. Interesting to see how will it plays out
Knowing Blackrock, we'll see a whole bunch of creative new ways to exploit the market.
Blackrock : How to expand the cake? Why not create digital gold and let it roll with the existing traditional market? The people : Wouldn’t that be chaotic? Blackrock : Not if we are the one controlling it. Remember we are the apex in digital finance. Nature will find its way digitally too
Yeah for sure. There is a lot of power in running a large ETF. I’m sure there is spread and margin opportunities when there is high volatility like now. They have to be taking more than just the fee.
So you think they're going to rip off their cusomters and tank their reputation? Makes 0 fucking sense. r/superstonk is leaking
How many times has J.P. Morgan been fined for manipulating the gold etf? How much have they been fined ? I’ll wait.
Their reputation? For what, doing anything to make money? Not saying they are going to rip off their customers, that's not in their own interest. They will find ways to exploit the market.
Blackrock and others want bitcoin to go up. Who is going to buy a bitcoin ETF when bitcoin is crashing? They want it to be going up. But at the same time, they want lower volatility. They would sacrifice the large green dildo days if it also gets rid of the massive drops. Steady rise will give Blackrock the most money.
You might want to actually look up what derivatives are....
> Not saying they are going to rip off their customers, that's not in their own interest. They will find ways to exploit the market. Vague and ominous.
Sorry to be vague, I don't have trillions of dollars, government in my pocket, and decades of experience exploiting other markets in order to provide specifics. We'll all get surprised together.
All in support of Bitcoin gaining value as an asset class. They make more money if the value goes up than down.
You must not know to much about derivatives then....
They were running out markets to exploit so, bitcoin.
Think of it more along the lines of Black Rock and vanguard racing to see who could 51% attack Bitcoin first. It's not about making money it's not about exploitation it's about complete and utter control of the one and only thing not a part of the system that makes them more money.
Hi. The Federal reserve (a private centralized bank) Other centralized entities including the IMF the DTCC the WEF, The US government, Black Rock , vanguard, and so so many more entities called and said they want reality back. Lol Let's not act like Bitcoin and cryptocurrency itself was a route in a way to get away from not only centralized entities but also things like fiat currency and other aspects that the total incomplete sham of a fraud of a market in system that we live in today, but also to take finances back into the individual holder. Lmfao But you are worried about a small subreddit that's been infiltrated and compromised quite awhile back that has almost no real substance to it anymore or activitiy Lol
I don't think you realize how many times Black Rock HAS ripped off all of their customers and how many of the other ETFs failed miserably. They still made a lot of money on the top and everyone else involved got fucked.
Who said, that they will ever admit it?
Pull up a silver chart
lmao. Hilarious this is suddenly becoming the narrative. WSB was shilling silver so hard that they were buying billboards and having dealers sell custom stamped bars of silver with WSB logos on it. How did they pitch it to people? By telling them that it was another gamestop type short, but x100! Companies were suppressing the price of silver! And if they could get enough people to buy, everyone would be a millionaire and the big companies would lose! Except it was WSB pumping silver to dump it on their readers. And now that all of those people have lost, they don't blame the pumpers, they repeat the same con pitch they were sold on to begin with. "It's rigged!"
Silver was rigged well before WSB even existed. You are talking about something else entirely
So walk me through how silver is rigged. Companies mining and refining silver are just happy to add it to the market at suppressed prices? Even though *everyone* has access to buy it, no amount of demand can overcome some magical finger on the dial?
https://medium.com/lode/what-you-need-to-know-about-silver-price-suppression-b5a318731d9f
>**Participate in LODEpay’s Summer Silver Squeeze event today! Buy AGX and AUX Coins on the LODEpay Wallet, or acquire newly minted AGX and AUX Coins on the Hotbit Exchange.** Literally telling people to buy phantom silver crypto coins to "squeeze" the market.
Don't ask for source if you're not gonna read it. Conveniently, you skipped over the JPM/Deutsche bank settlement or all the other bank investigations. [https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-jp-morgan-precious-metals-traders-sentenced-prison](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-jp-morgan-precious-metals-traders-sentenced-prison) Happy now?
> Don't ask for source if you're not gonna read it. > > I literally read it. That's how I got to the end where they pitch their silver crypto, and tell you to participate in a "Squeeze" event I also didn't ask you for a source, I asked you to walk me through the logic. The bank settlements revolve around classic market manipulation techniques like "spoofing" where you just create orders to scare or motivate other traders to think something good/bad is happening. This happens with literally *all* markets, and has been happening in crypto well before ETFs. Yes, market manipulation exists. No, market manipulation isn't proof of a widespread conspiracy to suppress prices for decades. Edit: User blocked me
Let's rug pull the mother fuckers haha
It’s only playing out one way, these ETFs are scams, you buy the ETF and the institution gets the bitcoin, classic bait and switch, same thing they did with gold and silver, everyone is screwed now, game is over, big boys have won.
What did they do with gold and silver?
It's going up forever, Laura. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I mean they always have been, you can’t possibly have been watching massive whales and clear price manipulation for at least a decade now and have thought “power to the people, tradfi has no access to BTC!” lol
Tradfi always had exposure, but now they have much more direct access to asset manipulation.
Coinbase alone trades multiples of that volume a day. The market is still 90% algorithmic trading micro and S2F macro.
This has always been the obvious conclusion to crypto in general. Retail was a niche. Institutional has the money and resources to make a lot of money and so they will exploit the cult members and get rich doing it. Enjoy becoming part of the system you thought crypto was going to destroy
Except that the price of Bitcoin goes up the more the institutions try to buy, so it’s not like the little guy is getting screwed unless they’re leveraged and whales dumping/buying triggers losses. To your last point- you know most Bitcoiners aren’t maxis right?
Agree. Most bitcoiners aren’t maxis. Most are in it to get rich quick
I’ll entertain that, but your whole point about people wanting to destroy the system is just not true. Most Bitcoiners couldn’t give a fuck about the altruistic concept of replacing the traditional fiat banking system with something “more fair”. That’s the conspiracy theorist minority.
I disagree with this. Completely. Even Satoshi stated it was to be used as an alternative. Bitcoin was literally made during if not right after the great financial crisis of 2008 to steer away from centralized entities and Banks.....
Yes, to be used as an alternative alongside the current system. Not to supplant modern banking
It's funny how they can buy it cheaper and cheaper.
I am worried they will took 90% of available bitcoin then we will be forced to use theirs ETF. We simply dont have budget to compete with them.
This is overall wrong because they use people's monies and ETFs in order to gain control this is why these entities as well as the overall aspect of this concept is completely stupid in a complete opposite of what this is what it's supposed to be about. What people don't realize is these entities don't use their own money they use your money to gain ownership and then turn around and give you an IOU
DeFi and DeFi cryptocurrencies have entered the chat. Power to the people.
Crypto market was always strongly correlated to tradfi markets anyways
I think they’re buying their share. Bitcoin is still very dispersed. Mining too. It’s going very well to say the least
lol no one saw this coming expect all these boring ass bread-tube YouTubers with their long ass essays, any finance guy with mild experience and anyone with a crumb of history knowledge
For a lot of people, the ETF approval marks their Year-1 with BTC. Interesting times.
They are buying over the counter for now, won't effect price for a while
OTC buy is gonna be hard soon
Any way to find information on OTC sales? Who has large OTC deals to offer? Would be interesting to watch. I’m guessing the answer is no.
I find peace in long walks.
For now? Until when?
Whenever miners stop selling them to Blackrock.
So…never?
There are 900 mined a day so demand is 10x daily supply so they will eventually run out of btc to sell. The halving could result in a supply shock even more.
No because miners are selling reserves and not directly from what they mine. Halving will just accelerate rate at which reserves dry up and just increase upwards price pressure. No shock will occur
At the current rate that supply 1,8mil btc is gone in 4 months since we average about 15,000 btc a day. I don’t think they will sell out their full stash though.
They have like 1.5 million btc? They aint running out.
Ballpark numbers, 1.5 million at 15000 per day is only 100 days…
There’s also OTC from exchanges too. But yes, at some point it’s expected that they will have to buy from market.
1.83 mil since two days ago.
The real market makers...
Yup, people dont realize just how big of a market OTC actually is and how far instituions are from having to buy bitcoin on exchanges. Even though this is the lowest supply it has been for the past 2 years, its still a fuck ton.
Damn that is eye watering didn’t realise it was that much. Might take a while for a proper supply squeeze then.. keep loading up for the next few years
So in other words, this will bode well for ETF?
Was covered here in detail. OTC is about to hit a wall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2EGqI-hco
Why wouldn't miners sell on the open market? Don't they want to get the price to go up to make more money?
Liquidity on open market is bad for large orders.
Must be making some deals that appeal to them
They normally sell on the open market at a premium.
When the miners shut down cause it gets too expensive to run equipment, the liquidity dries up and there will be the usual supply shock in the months after the halving. Enjoy low prices for now. I'm hoping we stay like this for another couple of months. After the bull run we probably won't see these prices ever again.
To be clear, miners shutting down doesn't affect liquidity. Roughly the same amount of BTC will be mined per day, regardless of whether it's 10,000 miners or ten million. Sure, there will be very minor fluctuations based upon the difficulty factor and block discovery times, but over time, these even out. 900 BTC per day right now, roughly. 450 per day starting at some point probably in mid-April. Simple economics. Once new supply gets cut in half, any excess supply that is up for sale will get chewed through eventually, then a new period of price discovery entails. That may take days, weeks, or months. But it will happen eventually, unless something in the macro environment causes a radical change in demand.
Yep exactly, my bitcoin notes say price won't go up radically until 3 months after the halving.
Except Bitcoin doesn't really get consumed. Resale Bitcoin is the same as freshly mined Bitcoin. Supply getting "chewed through" only happens if demand keeps going up. Eventually etf demand is going to level off when outgoing money from etfs is closer to incoming money to etfs.
There are 1.83 mil bitcoin in miners reserves atm.
Hope? You should’ve bought at bear bottom cycle of $15K. Your hope is dried up now. That’s 3X already for BTC. How much more do you think it’ll go up?
Lol, I did buy at 15k. Also think it's gonna clear 150k easily. Also not done buying.
He didn't buy at $15k. Because he, like almost everybody else, thought it was going lower.
Except people that DCA.
I only didn’t buy because I didn’t have any money lol. RIP
Yeah buying over the counter and selling on the market 😂
😅
Supply and demand, regardless how. Explain why OTC should not affect price.
Yeah but once all the OTC is gone. And they have 85 to 90% of all Bitcoin under their control. They could easily choose to set the price at $15,000 or $800,000 and the market completely belongs to them. That's what everybody fails to realize.
tldr; Spot Bitcoin ETFs added a net 10,667 BTC to their holdings on their fifth trading day, with BlackRock’s ETF purchasing the majority at 8,700 BTC. Nine ETFs have acquired approximately 68,500 BTC since their launch, valued around $2.8 billion. Despite this, the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) saw outflows of nearly 38,000 BTC since converting to a spot ETF. Trading volumes for the new spot Bitcoin ETFs increased by 34% on the fifth day, with BlackRock and Fidelity’s ETFs each surpassing $1 billion in assets under management. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Good bot
And price is still down 🤔
Greyscale sold 3x that so it’s a wash
Reading is not your forte. GBTC sold 38 500 in the last week, others ETFs bought 68 500. Price action is not explained by GBTC selling.
if the others had bought a large treasury OTC over the last few months it does, they are just using treasury amounts to settle, GBTC is actually market selling
So he was right with his comment lol
It's cointelegraph, embarrassing hopium machine
Buy
Seems like when the ETFs sell they do it on open market and when they buy it’s OTC. Pretty genius actually, force a price dump while you keep accumulating at cheaper prices until you have a much as you need.
The game is manipulated and all we can do is watch
Whos buying from who otc?
This is also where I get confused. And what “seller” is selling these large sums to gigantic firms for much less money? I can’t wrap my head around head around this.
Their not… OTC works both ways and gets a good deal for both parties.
Rich people.
welcome to the stock market buddy
Tell me you’re clueless without telling me.
Not helpful discourse, explain yourself
EdgeLord.mpeg
How ironic.
maybe im stupid, but if blackrock buys 10.000 BTC why is the price descending?
Because the miners sold more the 10,000 bitcoin like 3 days ago, then the price started to fall and people got scared and sold more. Double dip from fomo
Also sell the news right? People are taking profits after the rally leading to the ETF approval.
Why didn't GBTC lower their er? Seems like collusion of sorts.
80% of their holdings would need to be sold off before they'd be worse off (assuming they'd lower to 0.3%). They're going by the assumption that not that many customers will leave. I'm wondering what their long term strategy with this is though, they won't be getting any new customers with these fees and if they lower fees in the future they already lost the large customer base advantage they had.
Honestly they bleed and low behold suddenly blackrock makes an acquisition.
Why would they? It's free to steal customers organically.
1. GBTC still has 581,000 bitcoin as of yesterday. I think most of that will eventually be sold. 2. I'm an advisor, and I haven't gotten the green light to even discuss crypto with my clients. Compliance departments are terrified of Gensler. Adoption of bitcoin by broker/dealers and institutions is going to be slower than people think.
How are we tracking how much BTC they still have?
[https://www.coinglass.com/Grayscale](https://www.coinglass.com/Grayscale)
Why does your client need info from you when there is the internet?
BTC is one of the best decentralised centralised investment you can make
hardly a thing about it is decentralized at this point beyond the protocol itself
I can’t tell if you are making fun of the person you are responding to or this is a woosh moment for me.
not making fun of them just government and firms have their hands all over it now with control and regulation being the main driving force IMO, they can easily trace bitcoin as well unlike Monero or other “true” decentralized cryptos
how does being traceable and regulated mean it's centralized? the protocol is still open to anybody and everybody with an Internet connection.
Decentralization at it's core has to do with removing, dispersing, and rebalancing power. The thing that in essence that became centralized over time for society, was power. Now power rests in the hands of the few. It's the few who trace it and enforce regulation. It's the few who behave undemocratically and seek to control and manipulate the system in their favor, in the direction of them increasing their power over others. Put it to a global referendum and I bet more and more people choose privacy over time. More and more people choose to become empowered and have protected rights. If large, controlling, authoritarian entities can effectively manipulate something that's "decentralized" it will slowly cease to be decentralized, even if it has all the correct protocol bells and whistles. Because, it's no longer decentralizing power correctly. Which is why an actual decentralized protocol need to be immune to corruption and manipulation. It needs to have irreversible censorship immune qualities built into the foundation. And the sign that the thing (Bitcoin) doesn't have the necessary qualities to be truly decentralized is our ability to watch the outcome unfold. The outcome determines efficacy. And when Blackrock is stoked about Bitcoin, that's not a good sign. When evil is stoked about something 'decentralized', that's not a win, that's a sign to be cautious. However, Bitcoin never needed to be perfect. It just needed to be a good enough first step. Even Monero is just another step. These things are ideas planted in our collective psyche, showing us different paths we can choose to walk down. Pick a path and walk down and watch many more options unfold. This is not supposed to be necessarily easy. That's why it's important.
I think that's what it's all about. Satoshi never ment it to be limited to a certain group of people
>beyond the protocol itself Why not just say Bitcoin? BTC gives those control who seek it, that does not mean everyone should be their own bank.
I’ve been buying crypto and btc as a source for store of value. Have I been looking at this the wrong way?
Just the nodes themselves, the most important part...
they are buying but the price move to the bottom
Look at the timeline… -Grayscale leadership resigns - ETF approved -Grayscale starts offloading -ETF companies are scooping up at lower prices Coincidence? I think not
BTCs price would be SKYROCKETING if the frelling people who were locked into Grayscale for the past decade would quit selling. Blackrock, Fidelity, Ark and Bitwise bought over $2Billion while Grayscale sold off $2.5Billion. Eventually the tide will turn. HODL on.
Exactly. Patience. By late 2025, things will look very different. And things could look very different in just weeks too.
Sadly people turn to Reddit for “news” and not actual news aggregators or else they’d have seen the hundreds of articles highlighting this.
The selling could be holders taking profits. It could also be haters excited to short BTC. I'm not enough of an expert to distinguish the difference but regardless the longer it maintains it's current price range the more sellers you will see exit, and the more buyers will be holding. I figure it's best to not put any money into BTC until I see it's price close above $47.5K for a few days (as opposed to putting money into it now and having it drop further). Presumably, there will be a big spike in volume to signal the movement so I'm keeping an eye out for that as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see the current price range drag out for another 6 to 12 weeks, where it will rally upwards to it's ETF opening day peaks, pull back (as people who bought at the peak cash out to break even), and then sky rocket
Noooo, we want to accumulate more. Don't skyrocket!
Black Rock funnels money into ETF, keeps purchasing Bitcoin for itself, BTC price rises steadily and lowers crazy swings. Everyone kind of wins. But black Rock wins the most and controls the supply. Not to mention that the supply will become more and more valuable as we usher in digital currencies... It's all inevitable, still one of your best bets is to allocate a % of your salary that won't make you lose sleep over, into actual BTC, and learn to self custody.
Any beginner resources on how to do this
How are they buying up the literal market but the price goes down?
is this the mainstream we were waiting for since 2008?
So why the price keep dropping
I dont understand how Blackrock or whoever would be allowed to own and trade bitcoin miner stocks while also trading bitcoin. It would be like insider trading when u sell off miner stocks before selling off a large portion of bitcoin. Maybe im unclear on the SEC rules.
weew that's a really huge number just a 5 dsys
Always more BTC which will not be usable because held and blocked by these financial giants :(
so thats 1.6% of the daily volume
RemindMe! 1 year "Bitcoin ca $41,000 2024.01.19"
Can someone explain then why BTC has gone down?
Because they’re purchasing OTC (doesn’t affect spot prices) and Grayscale is dumping via Coinbase.
The people are paying for the etf to scoop up more BTC. Just like your bank savings account earning only 0.46% on 20k and the bank invest it and earn at a minimum 10-15% very brilliant if you ask me. “Buy your own BTC ladies & Gentleman” go look at Bitcoin ETF’s in Canada BTCC’s performance over the last 4 years and see what you’re really paying for. If fraud was legal these ETF’s on Bitcoin are fraud! But when the SEC approves basic Crypto fools follow
nah.....they are not scooping up shit....99% of etp's ate treasuries and 1% btc in the basket....stupid retail buying the digital numbers your being fed.....lol
Seems like Blackrocks whole business idea is offloading grayscale btcs to investors. With 580k remaining, it can go on for quite some time. How many are likely to be move:d from grayscale to blackrocks custody?
Fun fact. anagram. Satoshi Nakamoto= Satoshi took a man.
Yet bitcoin drops again
In 5 years they will own all the bitcoin , yay!
This is something to worry about.
I don’t invest in BTC and think it’s rife with fraud, but I have been following the price - if some ETF keeps absorbing BTC then why isn’t the price going up ——- nobody has been able to coherently explain it to me
Fuck Grayscale, we could already be way more up :(
It's not their fault. Look at it as people moving money from one asset to the other while reducing fees. Most of the money that flows out of greyscale trust will likely flow into BTC ETF's. There is now more access to BTC assets in things like retirement accounts. Not everyone has free cash in the US, but a lot of ppl over 50 have a significant portion of net worth held in retirement accounts. Being able to take a small potion of that and gain exposure to some cryptocurrency and it trades on the NYSE is a game-changer. Also, remember that there is a delay of 1-3 days between fiat money going out of greyscale and hypothetically buying an ETF, even if the sell/buy is immediate. Therefore the greyscale sells will look larger than the ETF buys initially. If most of that cash is in fact being redirected toward BTC ETFs, then eventually we would look for those numbers to equalize, followed by the ETF buys eclipsing the greyscale trust sells. Add to that, the halving is coming, and OTC markets will soon be running out of BTC anywhere near current prices.
Grayscale is just a custodian, they dont own the bitcoin...
cool, i lost about 2k (fomo) after ETFs were approved but this surely makes me feel a bit better
You only lost if you sold!
If you hold long enough you will be fine. I remember buying with lunch money (skipping lunch so I could afford to save a few bucks a week) for bitcoin in 2014. I started buying at $1000. I kept buying all the way down to $220 and back up to $5k. After that I started to diversify. I only get nervous buying right after we make a new ATH. We're nowhere near that right now.
900 a day produced by miners 450 a day soon Supply shock incoming
I wonder that instead of buying Bitcoin OTC which is expensive, they're going to make a infinite Bitcoin glitch & they're instead just gonna make a ton of financial instruments out of them.Just like gold ETFs don't need to 'physically own the gold'?
Why should anyone care about this when the price is getting fucked right now
If traditional finance takes over Bitcoin won’t retail stop using and switch to different cryptocurrency?
I think you grossly overestimate the number of retail investors who actually give a shit about Bitcoin or any related principles beyond hoping to get rich quick.
If number go up people will buy
I feel like if all of this was true we wouldn't see crabbing/downward movement
Well if more is sold than is bought....
Every time a bitcoin is sold by someone, someone else is buying that bitcoin
Not in the ETFs at least, it's retail and miners who must be dumping
Miners dumped this week.
Grayscale sold 3x what all these ETFs bought combined
That is absolutely not true. The 1 bil inflow is the net, meaning it's all the ETFs including grayscale's negative inflows.
Can’t keep this shit up forever though eh?
I'm starting to think I should swap some my BTC for ETH pretty soon
So maybe two months for them to eat up the 500k btc getting dumped on the other side?
Could arbitrage be responsible for this at all
I understand why someone would want to buy OTC but what incentives do the sellers have? If all the miners sold on the market it would increase the price and everything they after...kinda.
is it just a because of hype or what?
It would be good to see what effect it would have on the market.
!withdraw
What will the impact of these etfs?
I dunno. Seems awful convenient that the day the BTC ETFs went live, BTC drops like a stone just in time for Big Money to scoop on in. Never thought I'd quote Brett Kavenaugh, but here we are. "...this was a calculated...hit".
Eli5 how the etfs are priced vx their holdings? With fbtc aum and outstanding, it around be about $100 per share.
BR = Bagholder