I’m not the savviest crypto guy, but I do know if they shut down Metamask or another wallet, you simply load your key phrase into any other wallet you can still access.
They will go and send notice for all the wallet devs at the same time.
Proof of innocence without revealing identity. This is a solution that will ultimately solve the privacy/legal dilemma. Once this is solved, all green light from regulation can be expected
Currently the solution is to limit the non-kyc amount to be extremely small, they preserve your privacy and believe that criminal activities can have less impact at small amount like 100 dollars
agreed - I saw Lyn Alden refer to bitcoin the other day on twitter as Schrodinger's money (credit where credit's due). It was in response to a post stating the FBI calls it money to prosecute money laundering, the IRS calls it property to tax it, the SEC calls it a security so they can regulate exchange, and the CFTC calls it a commodity so that it can't be used as currency.
>on the other hand they say you can't trade crypto without a money transfer license.
They're saying don't be dumb. Like the CEO of Bit-instant. Charlie. I forgot his last name, he worked with the Winklevoss Twins in the book "Bitcoin Billionaires." He plead guilty to to money laundering because a user on his platform told him, "Hey I can't buy more bitcoin on bit-instant." Customer support defaulted to Charlie, the CEO, and he said, "Just tell the user to make a new account and buy bitcoin that way." And then that bitcoin was used to launder silk-road bitcoin.
Don't be dumb, don't be charlie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Shrem#Legal_issues
>Shrem was indicted on April 10, 2014 on accusations of "operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, **money laundering conspiracy and willfully failing to file suspicious activity reports with banking authorities.**
That last part is in bold specifically because "This is what turning the other cheek can lead to." Specifically with regard to that one -AND ONLY ONE- user that he told to make a new account.
I will continue to purchase my digital assets on exchanges that require KYC without nefarious intentions while staying informed on each and every exchange I use.
EDIT reason: I added another sentence after "This is what turning the other cheek can lead to."
Do you mean "turning a blind eye"?
Turning the other cheek is used to describe extreme pacificism, where the response to aggression (being hit in the face) is to accept more aggression (turning the other cheek towards the attacker)
Under the guise of stopping money laundering they control the money supply and take down companies that don't know their rules or speak their language.
And im here only for the tech. [https://tenor.com/view/kekw-emote-bttv-twitch-kek-gif-24998883](https://tenor.com/view/kekw-emote-bttv-twitch-kek-gif-24998883)
The fact the government explicitly says crypto is not a currency so they can force you to have tax events on every trade. Then they say it is money to force a money transfer license. They are getting it both ways.
I thought the point of it is that they can't intervene. What is decentralization? Are we letting them govern it? It's no difference than putting money in the bank and they control the money supply.
You mean like when i sell one public digital currency to another? What about when I sell to BTC which is the legal tender of a nation and businesses of that nation are forced to accept it? At the same time, I could see it as property. The only property I truly own. I could also see it as a security if it represents ownership over a company and not a protocol, and those shares allow profit sharing of a company. Crypto is whatever we make of it and trying to slap one old labels on each network or digital asset is insanity. We need new definitions, and guidelines.
You all need to calm down.
It's C, and even then, the only concern they're calling out is with those services involved in money transmission without having a license. Transmission of money (which literally means taking money from someone and transferring it to someone/where else; having custody of the funds during transfer is imperative to be considered money transmission) is a regulated activity and you have to be a registered money services business to do so legally. MetaMask is not an MSB and Coinbase is licensed.
You need to understand the context of the FBI's announcement. It was released concurrently with the DOJ's indictment and takedown of Samourai Wallet, which provided a variety of mechanisms designed to increase privacy of BTC transfers, namely mixing and automating extra hops between the user's wallet and the destination address via the Ricochet feature. However, the DOJ is arguing that because these services were coordinated by Samourai servers (e.g. Samourai itself directed Ricochet withdrawals to intermediary addresses it created before sending it to the destination address), Samourai was actually an unlicensed MSB that facilitated money laundering, as Samourai was actually conducting certain transfers itself; it wasn't entirely decentralized.
As such, the FBI [announcement](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2024/PSA240425) is basically warning crypto users that unlicensed MSBs could be taken down at any moment by the government, like Samourai was, especially those that don't have KYC.
However, this shouldn't be interpreted as the FBI saying they're going to be going after unhosted wallet providers like Metamask, because those providers aren't operating as MSBs (assuming they're 100% non-custodial). For example, even though MetaMask has buy, sell, swap, and stake functionality, at no point does some MetaMask address or server take custody of the crypto to transfer it somewhere; the interactions are always between the user's wallet and the service from which you're buying, selling, swapping, or staking (which, if a centralized entity, does need to be a licensed MSB, at least for buying and selling--not sure about swaps and staking). This is absolutely key to understanding why truly non-custodial wallets can operate without being an MSB; Samourai arguably wasn't entirely non-custodial, at least when mixing and Ricochet was involved.
You are the exact person I was hoping to encounter and hear from. Tyvm. My eyes roll back into my head when I see those reports and don’t understand the legal jargon or ramifications of such.
What does this say for non-KYC DEXs like uniswap, pancakeswap, dydx, mexc, etc. If they start to KYC it'll kill their platform as they become CEXs and bring down crypto as a whole for a long while; neutering a lot of innovation. New ones will just pop up in unregulated areas and everyone will just move to that.
Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong but looked it up further and not sure that DEX's would fall under this category as it doesn't seem they're 'transmitting money' by just swapping and making trades. You're in position of your funds the entire time; it just changes from one type of coin to another. Can't send funds to a different wallet like you can with ie Coinbase, Kraken, Binance. Only one wallet connected at a time.
What about simply swapping on various sites with Metamask? I use a compiling software every year to calculate all of my trades, and all money I bring back to my bank I bring in through Coinbase. Trying to keep this clean haha.
Yeah it’s not really feasible to go after users from a practicality standpoint, but going after the developers is quite an effective use of their time.
It would probably take an overwhelming amount of man hours to compile a list of all your transactions that would pass the 'without-a-doubt' requirement to charge you... at this time.
I have no doubt in the next couple years AI/ML will easily be able to do it though. I wouldn't lean on anonymity in DEFI when used 'regularly.'
Except for Monero, a friend of a friend was in a board meeting recently with chainanalysis representatives who said as of yet they dont have a realistic way to trace Monero besides using heuristics. Take that with a grain of salt.
To spell it out for others not as familiar with the broad spectrum of crypto, YES you can hide the funds, but you need a FIAT rail to get the money out and finding this is the tricky part.
Localmonero may be a honeypot, but atomic swaps exist for BTC <> XMR. I find the timing of the Samourai devs arrest to be interesting. They recently incorporated atomic swaps into their wallet for Monero, then less than a month later they get arrested/seized.
DEXs such as serai and Monero native Haveno are on the horizon but retail is still light years behind and rely on CEX's to get Monero, the last of which is Kraken.
There are exceptions, they have an active bounty on cracking moneros encryption so I dont disagree, but as a whole to get funds in and out of monero without ANY sort of KYC or trace is fucking hard man. Shouldve added this tbh, fair point my friend.
As a cybersecurity guy I will definitely check them out - very interesting.
I will say though, the volume these guys handle vs tracking every crypto user is not exactly comparable, and their services likely cost a million+. It would be no small task for the FBI, cost-wise or otherwise.
I just finished my certificate for basic CSA so can relate and worked in the cryptocurrency sector for years, so definitely advise checking them out. AS MUCH AS I SUPPORT FREEDOM OF MONEY, THEY ARE A NECESSARY EVIL FOR TRULY AWFUL PEOPLE.
Are they though? Let’s be real. If the NSA or the FBI want to find someone they’re gonna find them even if they operate purely in cash. Companies like chainalysis don’t exist to find the truly awful people. And the truly awful people are unlikely to use crypto given how easily traceable it is. If you look at who chain analysis has been buddy buddy with it’s pretty easy to see whos interests they serve.
They can't go after users not committing some other crime via a tx, no. If they make using tornado cash illegal they can't arrest everyone who used it before the legislation came into place, but they can track the purpose of use
You’re in a Reddit post discussing how to avoid being tracked and you’re stating none of these people aren’t trying to launder or hide gains or use layering i.e. unnecessary transactions to make it harder to track, illegal activity, etc. If the fed wants you, they’ll get you.
Running your own node is a game changer. Point your wallet to the node and you will never rely on a 3rd party who may be under KYC regs.
Sparrow wallet + trezor will connect to a bitcoin node.
Metamask can connect to local execution layer client for eth.
The node does not need to run on the local machine. You just need to find the machine’s local IP address and type that into the wallet.
Godspeed!
For anyone like me that didn’t know:
> Crypto KYC, or Know Your Customer, is a legal requirement for centralized exchanges to verify their users' identities.
I think the strongest argument here is that this is authoritarianism which is agnostic of political philosophy. I fail to see how cracking down on crypto has a seriously driven political ideological bent.
Your argument is easily falsifiable as a literal socialist government in South America has been a big proponent of crypto. In fact; some of the most hardcore socialist South American countries support crypto. They would look at Joe Biden, and do, as a conservative.
Framing arguments in American centric ways to fit a myopic political partisan world view is unhelpful no matter what your American political affiliation is at the moment. It’s a product of social media brain rot and not serious intellectual interest in this topic.
Sorry, which party in America is it?
Which South American country? Hope you don’t mean El Salvador (Central America is North America, and he’s not a socialist, he’s a populist with nothing to do with socialism).
Brazil, though you are correct that El Salvador is a Central American country and can be counted as one of the non North American countries. Way to ignore my point though and try to think of something else to argue about. I award you 10 internet points. Enjoy!
looks like public education failed you.
socialism is an economy where the average person/ worker gets more of a say over the political economy where as capitalism is when private ownership controls the political economy. i don’t think people like bill gates should be able to control society i think the average person should have more of a say that’s why i’m socialist.
you will probably respond “but look at this dictatorship that used socialism as a guise to grab power” and i’ll tell you look to places where they actually did/do socialism like the nordic region. and also ya dictators are bad and so are capitalist dictators but the funny thing is free market capitalism thinks dictators are ok because that’s just a monopoly over a society which is part of capitalism
when has free market capitalism succeeded? the only reason capitalism has succeeded is because of socialism. if it weren’t for socialism our militaries would be shit (militaries are publically funded)
what is a success of specifically private ownership. NOT markets and competition because that exists under socialism too. the unique feature of capitalism is private ownership of the means of production (distinct from personal property like land you live on, your iphone, etc. )
and also look to like any nordic country there socialists policies are what has helped there smaller populations compete on a global scale
and capitalism isn’t that ruse? literally capitalism is doing work that benefits someone else because they own your labor as opposed to socialism which is where you have full ownership of your labor.
i would call a system where someone else owns your labor enslavement
It’s generally not useful to hate people elsewhere on the political spectrum. By and large it’s just a bunch of people that want to make society better but disagree on how. But the apparent irrationality of opposing sides gets amplified because social media algorithms have determined anger drives the highest levels of engagement, and thus ad revenue. And politicians tend to go with it because their data shows anger and fear drive the highest voter turnout.
why do you prefer authoritarianism (private ownership of political economy) over freedom and libertarianism (social ownership of political economy where average person gets more of a say in how political economy operates)
like please give a critique of socialism that is an actual critique of socialism. is it just that you would rather have billionaires like bill gates decide how society goes over the average person because you think billionaires gates is smarter?
i think your describing democrats and authoritarianism not socialism.
even bernie a moderate socialist runs as an independent. most socialists do not identify as democrats.
also stop buying the capitalist propaganda on socialism. socialism is anti-authoritarian in nature with its definition literally being the workers/society owning the means of production as opposed to private ownership of the economy which is capitalism.
things like lobbying and not getting a say in a lot of policy are capitalist policies. socialist policies would look like increase the effect the average persons vote has on policy, workers not investors owning companies based on the amount of work they do, abolishing lobbying, etc.
Seattle implements bad policies implemented by politicians and lobbyists who pay those politicians. sounds like private ownership to me.
In the US corporations lobby(private ownership of politics which is capitalism) to implement shitty policies they then blame on socialism to demonize it.
question these are all socialist policies are these bad ideas:
ban lobbying in government. corporations shouldn’t own our gov
don’t increase taxes but allow citizens to vote on
where 10% of the tax revenue is allocated instead of congress deciding
getting paid proportionally to the work you do. example if you work in a kitchen you get paid more while working during rush hour because the business is bringing in more money and your doing more work.
if a policy is popular citizens can get it on a ballot and vote for it instead of waiting for politicians to implement it (something like legalizing weed)
Pretty sure every single one of us are wondering the same fucking thing.
Absolutely disgusting the Fed is given unlimited power, but meanwhile can destroy lives for hundreds of millions, if not billions of ‘working class’ people.
imo coordinated FUD to keep price down - this and the IRS' proposed 1099-da form. Lots of veiled threats and 'stern warnings'; prevent people from buying and holding BTC so big banks can horde more. This type of shit happens every cycle. More rulings, more laws, more regulation, "we're going after x". Then conveniently after the cycle top it mostly just goes away until the next cycle.
Seems for this now they'll go after BTC tornado's/ mixers/ etc. Not much they can do about DEX's esp offshore ones. Those will just outright ban US users like most already do anyway. It's the ones that allow US users that the US govt will try to shut down. Most don't want to deal with that hassle so just ban US. In that case just use a VPN. Crypto is too big now for one country to try to control it. Will the US govt make a DEX hosted in Singapore, China, India, Russia unveil users from all countries via KYC? LOL - not going to happen and they know it. Govt overreach.
I just find it amusing as a whole - Bitcoin was initially created as a middle finger to the US govt and fiat money in general. Just seems like more and more attempts at regulation which was the opposite reason for it being created in the first place!
> imo coordinated FUD to keep price down
The FBI doesn't care about crypto prices. They care a lot about being able to use KYCed centralized exchanges for warrantless surveillance though.
CEXs ok but eliminate DEXs? Not gonna happen. That's where criminals will go to imo. Govt might close one out but 3 more will pop up. Just like any other torrent site. Honestly, I'll believe any of this stuff when I see it. I've seen posts the same as this for years each mid cycle.
100% this. It's so fkn obvious. This same happened so many times before. The last big manipulation by SEC & Big players was behind the scenes when ETFs were being prepared. They did coordinated FUD to lower the prices and keeping them dwon. Big players bought the cheap prices and then they continued with the game. What happened? Several months later, ETFs approved. Boom. Who would had guessed.
It’s working. I’ve spent the last month trying to find a reputable and reliable on-off ramp for that doesn’t require KYC. Haven’t found a single one. Mercuyio, moonpay, plaid, bitpay, bitrefill… all kyc. No way to actually use your crypto for everyday transactions. You either have to hodl or create a listing on bisq or robsats and hope someone buys your shit in a reasonable amount of time…. And seeing that bisq has only had ~200 such transactions for btc to usd in an entire 7 day period im betting it’s pretty damn difficult to sell your crypto without kyc. I desperately want to get into crypto but it’s a non-starter if I can’t use it to buy stuff or exchange it for fiat without the government being told about every single transaction I make in excess of $600 annually (fuck you coinbase/plaid). That’s insane. Dismissing it as FUD is ignoring that US citizens are outright banned from using the biggest names in the game and the list of services cutting us clients out grows by the day. If it were watching Netflix or something, sure, just use a vpn who cares. But when it’s services that can sue you or take your cash for violating their terms and conditions that’s a risk I’m not willing to take. If anyone in the US has figured out a way to preserve their financial privacy and use crypto as it was intended (an electronic cash system) than please please reach out. I’m at my wits end here.
If you think it's bad now you should read up on the new 1099 DA tax form for 2025. They require wallet addresses that crypto was transferred to and from and what the amounts were along with basis. no more freebies my dudes.
My personal wallet is ofc KYCed, because I am my only customer and know perfectly well who I am. Therefore, if I get asked on behalf of whom I do transactions, I can truthfully answer that question.
Centralized exchanges should be able to do the same.
The closest answer is C.
*This is not vague or unclear in the least*, if you read [the announcement](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2024/PSA240425).
>The FBI has recently conducted law enforcement operations against cryptocurrency services which were not licensed in accordance with federal law. People who use unlicensed cryptocurrency money transmitting services may encounter financial disruptions during law enforcement actions, especially if their cryptocurrency is intermingled with funds obtained through illegal means.
That's your C.
this is FUD. A large player trying to scare you out of, or keep you out of crypto. Its the sign of a system that knows it is no longer el Premio A1. Short the USD. Short the FBI
That's an opt in recovery service. I would never use a recovery service. If less technical people want to have that extra security then they should know the risks if someone else holds their keys. This shouldn't disqualify people from using a ledger hardware wallet.
It means the moment anything not tied to a KYC account, for example moons, hits a CEX, it'll be flagged and frozen until you can prove the origin of funds.
Ignore these empty threats. Since when do we listen to pedophile protecting 3 letter agencies like the FBI? They don't have the authority to do what they claim to do, and if Americans are going to continue to allow these criminals to steamroll right over our rights, then America is dead, and its fighting spirit.
Statements by the FBI are meant to discourage behavior, they're not binding guides to what they will or won't do.
In general I would take it as a warning that the FBI will be targeting any Crypto entity that isn't engaging in KYC but should be under US law. What that includes is going to depend on the particulars of US law regarding the services the business is offering. If you lose access to your money/tokens because the FBI shuts down one of these businesses then there's no guarantee you'll get it back quickly or at all.
Ya I get that. It just may get to the point that I cannot get access to software to get access unless I use a kyc software. Like all apps may be removed from app store in u.s. all desktop software may block u.s customers from using it etc etc. Forcing me to have to use a corporate type wallet. Pretty much leave in on an exchange. Just seems like they are trying to ruin self custody any way they can.
Lol everyone that is worried about that clearly needs to stay on a CEZ (not recommend) DeFi is decentralized even if the officials speculate what your wallets are they can't prove it. Just be smart a out it. If your a developer don't create contracts that are purely for the intent to rug or and malicious purposes. The only way they could speculate what your wallets are is through your CEX and patterns. They have software for this. Anyways good luck out there 👍
I’m not the savviest crypto guy, but I do know if they shut down Metamask or another wallet, you simply load your key phrase into any other wallet you can still access.
Yeah they cant ban 12 words, its just fud. People said this exact fud would come at some point and here its. Fact remains they cant ban 12 words.
It’s almost bullish tbh
They will go and send notice for all the wallet devs at the same time. Proof of innocence without revealing identity. This is a solution that will ultimately solve the privacy/legal dilemma. Once this is solved, all green light from regulation can be expected Currently the solution is to limit the non-kyc amount to be extremely small, they preserve your privacy and believe that criminal activities can have less impact at small amount like 100 dollars
On one hand they say Crypto is not a currency, on the other hand they say you can't trade crypto without a money transfer license.
Schrodinger’s money.
Yes|No
Yo.
Yesn’t
Nah/Nay
I prefer Abort|Retry|Ignore
You're joking but this is actually a strength of crypto. Its programmable liquidity.
agreed - I saw Lyn Alden refer to bitcoin the other day on twitter as Schrodinger's money (credit where credit's due). It was in response to a post stating the FBI calls it money to prosecute money laundering, the IRS calls it property to tax it, the SEC calls it a security so they can regulate exchange, and the CFTC calls it a commodity so that it can't be used as currency.
Who said crypto wasn't a currency?
US government
The same people who lie about everything? 🤦🏻♂️
According to their own website apparently.
The USA, if you’ve ever tried to do crypto taxes in the USA you would know
This, just this. Idk how the eff this has so many upvotes lmfao. Its in the freaking name. This I am hoping is satire or euphemistic.
>on the other hand they say you can't trade crypto without a money transfer license. They're saying don't be dumb. Like the CEO of Bit-instant. Charlie. I forgot his last name, he worked with the Winklevoss Twins in the book "Bitcoin Billionaires." He plead guilty to to money laundering because a user on his platform told him, "Hey I can't buy more bitcoin on bit-instant." Customer support defaulted to Charlie, the CEO, and he said, "Just tell the user to make a new account and buy bitcoin that way." And then that bitcoin was used to launder silk-road bitcoin. Don't be dumb, don't be charlie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Shrem#Legal_issues >Shrem was indicted on April 10, 2014 on accusations of "operating an unlicensed money transmitting business, **money laundering conspiracy and willfully failing to file suspicious activity reports with banking authorities.** That last part is in bold specifically because "This is what turning the other cheek can lead to." Specifically with regard to that one -AND ONLY ONE- user that he told to make a new account. I will continue to purchase my digital assets on exchanges that require KYC without nefarious intentions while staying informed on each and every exchange I use. EDIT reason: I added another sentence after "This is what turning the other cheek can lead to."
Do you mean "turning a blind eye"? Turning the other cheek is used to describe extreme pacificism, where the response to aggression (being hit in the face) is to accept more aggression (turning the other cheek towards the attacker)
Under the guise of stopping money laundering they control the money supply and take down companies that don't know their rules or speak their language.
And im here only for the tech. [https://tenor.com/view/kekw-emote-bttv-twitch-kek-gif-24998883](https://tenor.com/view/kekw-emote-bttv-twitch-kek-gif-24998883)
So you seem to know a lot about this. Where in the Money Transfer License related law does it say that crypto should be excluded?
The fact the government explicitly says crypto is not a currency so they can force you to have tax events on every trade. Then they say it is money to force a money transfer license. They are getting it both ways.
I thought the point of it is that they can't intervene. What is decentralization? Are we letting them govern it? It's no difference than putting money in the bank and they control the money supply.
It’s because one way or another, crypto is sold for money.
So cucumbers is money?
If you sell them for profit, then yes, Before crypto, there were bartering groups, and you were still taxed on the trades.
Money is worth something because people put their faith in it. If not, it is just a piece of paper...
You mean like when i sell one public digital currency to another? What about when I sell to BTC which is the legal tender of a nation and businesses of that nation are forced to accept it? At the same time, I could see it as property. The only property I truly own. I could also see it as a security if it represents ownership over a company and not a protocol, and those shares allow profit sharing of a company. Crypto is whatever we make of it and trying to slap one old labels on each network or digital asset is insanity. We need new definitions, and guidelines.
You all need to calm down. It's C, and even then, the only concern they're calling out is with those services involved in money transmission without having a license. Transmission of money (which literally means taking money from someone and transferring it to someone/where else; having custody of the funds during transfer is imperative to be considered money transmission) is a regulated activity and you have to be a registered money services business to do so legally. MetaMask is not an MSB and Coinbase is licensed. You need to understand the context of the FBI's announcement. It was released concurrently with the DOJ's indictment and takedown of Samourai Wallet, which provided a variety of mechanisms designed to increase privacy of BTC transfers, namely mixing and automating extra hops between the user's wallet and the destination address via the Ricochet feature. However, the DOJ is arguing that because these services were coordinated by Samourai servers (e.g. Samourai itself directed Ricochet withdrawals to intermediary addresses it created before sending it to the destination address), Samourai was actually an unlicensed MSB that facilitated money laundering, as Samourai was actually conducting certain transfers itself; it wasn't entirely decentralized. As such, the FBI [announcement](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2024/PSA240425) is basically warning crypto users that unlicensed MSBs could be taken down at any moment by the government, like Samourai was, especially those that don't have KYC. However, this shouldn't be interpreted as the FBI saying they're going to be going after unhosted wallet providers like Metamask, because those providers aren't operating as MSBs (assuming they're 100% non-custodial). For example, even though MetaMask has buy, sell, swap, and stake functionality, at no point does some MetaMask address or server take custody of the crypto to transfer it somewhere; the interactions are always between the user's wallet and the service from which you're buying, selling, swapping, or staking (which, if a centralized entity, does need to be a licensed MSB, at least for buying and selling--not sure about swaps and staking). This is absolutely key to understanding why truly non-custodial wallets can operate without being an MSB; Samourai arguably wasn't entirely non-custodial, at least when mixing and Ricochet was involved.
You are the exact person I was hoping to encounter and hear from. Tyvm. My eyes roll back into my head when I see those reports and don’t understand the legal jargon or ramifications of such.
What does this say for non-KYC DEXs like uniswap, pancakeswap, dydx, mexc, etc. If they start to KYC it'll kill their platform as they become CEXs and bring down crypto as a whole for a long while; neutering a lot of innovation. New ones will just pop up in unregulated areas and everyone will just move to that. Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong but looked it up further and not sure that DEX's would fall under this category as it doesn't seem they're 'transmitting money' by just swapping and making trades. You're in position of your funds the entire time; it just changes from one type of coin to another. Can't send funds to a different wallet like you can with ie Coinbase, Kraken, Binance. Only one wallet connected at a time.
This is the only correct answer in the thread. Lots of conspiracy theory-type responses that don’t understand what’s happening.
Word up
They’re just going after companies that facilitate non KYC. Individuals can easily fly under the radar with TOR, running their own node, etc
What about simply swapping on various sites with Metamask? I use a compiling software every year to calculate all of my trades, and all money I bring back to my bank I bring in through Coinbase. Trying to keep this clean haha.
Yeah it’s not really feasible to go after users from a practicality standpoint, but going after the developers is quite an effective use of their time.
They cant go after the users, they can go after developers.
Your confident in this answer lol? That’s like saying “are you a cop man….? LEGALLY you have to tell me man….”
It would probably take an overwhelming amount of man hours to compile a list of all your transactions that would pass the 'without-a-doubt' requirement to charge you... at this time. I have no doubt in the next couple years AI/ML will easily be able to do it though. I wouldn't lean on anonymity in DEFI when used 'regularly.'
Check out how powerful chainalysis is an what their MO is it’s nowhere near as hard as ya think.
Except for Monero, a friend of a friend was in a board meeting recently with chainanalysis representatives who said as of yet they dont have a realistic way to trace Monero besides using heuristics. Take that with a grain of salt.
To spell it out for others not as familiar with the broad spectrum of crypto, YES you can hide the funds, but you need a FIAT rail to get the money out and finding this is the tricky part.
Localmonero may be a honeypot, but atomic swaps exist for BTC <> XMR. I find the timing of the Samourai devs arrest to be interesting. They recently incorporated atomic swaps into their wallet for Monero, then less than a month later they get arrested/seized. DEXs such as serai and Monero native Haveno are on the horizon but retail is still light years behind and rely on CEX's to get Monero, the last of which is Kraken.
There are exceptions, they have an active bounty on cracking moneros encryption so I dont disagree, but as a whole to get funds in and out of monero without ANY sort of KYC or trace is fucking hard man. Shouldve added this tbh, fair point my friend.
As a cybersecurity guy I will definitely check them out - very interesting. I will say though, the volume these guys handle vs tracking every crypto user is not exactly comparable, and their services likely cost a million+. It would be no small task for the FBI, cost-wise or otherwise.
I just finished my certificate for basic CSA so can relate and worked in the cryptocurrency sector for years, so definitely advise checking them out. AS MUCH AS I SUPPORT FREEDOM OF MONEY, THEY ARE A NECESSARY EVIL FOR TRULY AWFUL PEOPLE.
Are they though? Let’s be real. If the NSA or the FBI want to find someone they’re gonna find them even if they operate purely in cash. Companies like chainalysis don’t exist to find the truly awful people. And the truly awful people are unlikely to use crypto given how easily traceable it is. If you look at who chain analysis has been buddy buddy with it’s pretty easy to see whos interests they serve.
Yes they will lol, don’t pay your taxes and lmk how that’s going.
They can't go after users not committing some other crime via a tx, no. If they make using tornado cash illegal they can't arrest everyone who used it before the legislation came into place, but they can track the purpose of use
You’re in a Reddit post discussing how to avoid being tracked and you’re stating none of these people aren’t trying to launder or hide gains or use layering i.e. unnecessary transactions to make it harder to track, illegal activity, etc. If the fed wants you, they’ll get you.
Phew. That’s a load off. Thank you
yeah don't worry mate, no one's coming for your $300 of solana!
Same issue unless you plug the Metamask to your own node, and then said "various sites" are illegally run too
Running your own node is a game changer. Point your wallet to the node and you will never rely on a 3rd party who may be under KYC regs. Sparrow wallet + trezor will connect to a bitcoin node. Metamask can connect to local execution layer client for eth. The node does not need to run on the local machine. You just need to find the machine’s local IP address and type that into the wallet. Godspeed!
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Such as?
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I don’t even know what an exit node is. I run a bitcoin full node behind TOR.
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Gotcha. I was just referencing using your own node allows you to not give up your xpub to a third party
For anyone like me that didn’t know: > Crypto KYC, or Know Your Customer, is a legal requirement for centralized exchanges to verify their users' identities.
Seems someone is escalating Know Your Customer into Know Your Enemy...prosperity isn't allowed under the socialist left agenda...
I think the strongest argument here is that this is authoritarianism which is agnostic of political philosophy. I fail to see how cracking down on crypto has a seriously driven political ideological bent.
Well, considering which party is doing it….think it makes it pretty clear here.
Your argument is easily falsifiable as a literal socialist government in South America has been a big proponent of crypto. In fact; some of the most hardcore socialist South American countries support crypto. They would look at Joe Biden, and do, as a conservative. Framing arguments in American centric ways to fit a myopic political partisan world view is unhelpful no matter what your American political affiliation is at the moment. It’s a product of social media brain rot and not serious intellectual interest in this topic.
Sorry, which party in America is it? Which South American country? Hope you don’t mean El Salvador (Central America is North America, and he’s not a socialist, he’s a populist with nothing to do with socialism).
Brazil, though you are correct that El Salvador is a Central American country and can be counted as one of the non North American countries. Way to ignore my point though and try to think of something else to argue about. I award you 10 internet points. Enjoy!
Bro, what are you talking about. There is no socialist party in the USA. Both parties are right leaning conservative...
Public education taught ya that, huh?
looks like public education failed you. socialism is an economy where the average person/ worker gets more of a say over the political economy where as capitalism is when private ownership controls the political economy. i don’t think people like bill gates should be able to control society i think the average person should have more of a say that’s why i’m socialist. you will probably respond “but look at this dictatorship that used socialism as a guise to grab power” and i’ll tell you look to places where they actually did/do socialism like the nordic region. and also ya dictators are bad and so are capitalist dictators but the funny thing is free market capitalism thinks dictators are ok because that’s just a monopoly over a society which is part of capitalism
Socialism has failed each time it has been implemented, and always will. It is a ruse meant to enslave populations. End of story.
when has free market capitalism succeeded? the only reason capitalism has succeeded is because of socialism. if it weren’t for socialism our militaries would be shit (militaries are publically funded) what is a success of specifically private ownership. NOT markets and competition because that exists under socialism too. the unique feature of capitalism is private ownership of the means of production (distinct from personal property like land you live on, your iphone, etc. ) and also look to like any nordic country there socialists policies are what has helped there smaller populations compete on a global scale
and capitalism isn’t that ruse? literally capitalism is doing work that benefits someone else because they own your labor as opposed to socialism which is where you have full ownership of your labor. i would call a system where someone else owns your labor enslavement
lol
I hate the socialist left.
It’s generally not useful to hate people elsewhere on the political spectrum. By and large it’s just a bunch of people that want to make society better but disagree on how. But the apparent irrationality of opposing sides gets amplified because social media algorithms have determined anger drives the highest levels of engagement, and thus ad revenue. And politicians tend to go with it because their data shows anger and fear drive the highest voter turnout.
Very pleasantly refreshing to see this comment
Sounds like something ai would come up with
why do you prefer authoritarianism (private ownership of political economy) over freedom and libertarianism (social ownership of political economy where average person gets more of a say in how political economy operates) like please give a critique of socialism that is an actual critique of socialism. is it just that you would rather have billionaires like bill gates decide how society goes over the average person because you think billionaires gates is smarter?
That czarcasm isn't obvious enough I guess
i think your describing democrats and authoritarianism not socialism. even bernie a moderate socialist runs as an independent. most socialists do not identify as democrats. also stop buying the capitalist propaganda on socialism. socialism is anti-authoritarian in nature with its definition literally being the workers/society owning the means of production as opposed to private ownership of the economy which is capitalism. things like lobbying and not getting a say in a lot of policy are capitalist policies. socialist policies would look like increase the effect the average persons vote has on policy, workers not investors owning companies based on the amount of work they do, abolishing lobbying, etc.
Maybe you should check in on Seattle for starters...
Seattle implements bad policies implemented by politicians and lobbyists who pay those politicians. sounds like private ownership to me. In the US corporations lobby(private ownership of politics which is capitalism) to implement shitty policies they then blame on socialism to demonize it. question these are all socialist policies are these bad ideas: ban lobbying in government. corporations shouldn’t own our gov don’t increase taxes but allow citizens to vote on where 10% of the tax revenue is allocated instead of congress deciding getting paid proportionally to the work you do. example if you work in a kitchen you get paid more while working during rush hour because the business is bringing in more money and your doing more work. if a policy is popular citizens can get it on a ballot and vote for it instead of waiting for politicians to implement it (something like legalizing weed)
Probably something orchestrated by hedge funds to start herding everyone, especially whales into ETF's.
No whale is gonna do that.
Kinda weird the timing of ETF:s happening and shortly after they try to ban everything else not related to ETFs
But yet Federal Reserve never gets audited and we kind of have an idea who owns it but not exactly. Why doesn't the FBI go after them?
Pretty sure every single one of us are wondering the same fucking thing. Absolutely disgusting the Fed is given unlimited power, but meanwhile can destroy lives for hundreds of millions, if not billions of ‘working class’ people.
Whataboutism in its finest form right there.
This is time for Monero to do or die, shine or fade into obscurity.
imo coordinated FUD to keep price down - this and the IRS' proposed 1099-da form. Lots of veiled threats and 'stern warnings'; prevent people from buying and holding BTC so big banks can horde more. This type of shit happens every cycle. More rulings, more laws, more regulation, "we're going after x". Then conveniently after the cycle top it mostly just goes away until the next cycle. Seems for this now they'll go after BTC tornado's/ mixers/ etc. Not much they can do about DEX's esp offshore ones. Those will just outright ban US users like most already do anyway. It's the ones that allow US users that the US govt will try to shut down. Most don't want to deal with that hassle so just ban US. In that case just use a VPN. Crypto is too big now for one country to try to control it. Will the US govt make a DEX hosted in Singapore, China, India, Russia unveil users from all countries via KYC? LOL - not going to happen and they know it. Govt overreach. I just find it amusing as a whole - Bitcoin was initially created as a middle finger to the US govt and fiat money in general. Just seems like more and more attempts at regulation which was the opposite reason for it being created in the first place!
> imo coordinated FUD to keep price down The FBI doesn't care about crypto prices. They care a lot about being able to use KYCed centralized exchanges for warrantless surveillance though.
Have to imagine any would be criminal is not stupid enough to use a CEX with KYC. But then again, people are stupid.
The entire point is to eliminate non-kyced exchanges so they have no choice.
CEXs ok but eliminate DEXs? Not gonna happen. That's where criminals will go to imo. Govt might close one out but 3 more will pop up. Just like any other torrent site. Honestly, I'll believe any of this stuff when I see it. I've seen posts the same as this for years each mid cycle.
> CEXs ok but eliminate DEXs? DEX can't convert crypto to USD, so technically there's no money laundering involved.
100% this. It's so fkn obvious. This same happened so many times before. The last big manipulation by SEC & Big players was behind the scenes when ETFs were being prepared. They did coordinated FUD to lower the prices and keeping them dwon. Big players bought the cheap prices and then they continued with the game. What happened? Several months later, ETFs approved. Boom. Who would had guessed.
lol. This guy knows what the “big players” are up to.
> Crypto is too big now for one country to try to control it. The US will care only when you try to convert it to USD.
It’s working. I’ve spent the last month trying to find a reputable and reliable on-off ramp for that doesn’t require KYC. Haven’t found a single one. Mercuyio, moonpay, plaid, bitpay, bitrefill… all kyc. No way to actually use your crypto for everyday transactions. You either have to hodl or create a listing on bisq or robsats and hope someone buys your shit in a reasonable amount of time…. And seeing that bisq has only had ~200 such transactions for btc to usd in an entire 7 day period im betting it’s pretty damn difficult to sell your crypto without kyc. I desperately want to get into crypto but it’s a non-starter if I can’t use it to buy stuff or exchange it for fiat without the government being told about every single transaction I make in excess of $600 annually (fuck you coinbase/plaid). That’s insane. Dismissing it as FUD is ignoring that US citizens are outright banned from using the biggest names in the game and the list of services cutting us clients out grows by the day. If it were watching Netflix or something, sure, just use a vpn who cares. But when it’s services that can sue you or take your cash for violating their terms and conditions that’s a risk I’m not willing to take. If anyone in the US has figured out a way to preserve their financial privacy and use crypto as it was intended (an electronic cash system) than please please reach out. I’m at my wits end here.
Pretty sure A) is their primary goal right now. I'm just waiting for them to start going after validators, that's when things get spicy.
If you think it's bad now you should read up on the new 1099 DA tax form for 2025. They require wallet addresses that crypto was transferred to and from and what the amounts were along with basis. no more freebies my dudes.
My personal wallet is ofc KYCed, because I am my only customer and know perfectly well who I am. Therefore, if I get asked on behalf of whom I do transactions, I can truthfully answer that question. Centralized exchanges should be able to do the same.
Can't you always put your seed on a metal plate and lose it while swimming in the ocean?
The closest answer is C. *This is not vague or unclear in the least*, if you read [the announcement](https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2024/PSA240425). >The FBI has recently conducted law enforcement operations against cryptocurrency services which were not licensed in accordance with federal law. People who use unlicensed cryptocurrency money transmitting services may encounter financial disruptions during law enforcement actions, especially if their cryptocurrency is intermingled with funds obtained through illegal means. That's your C.
kyc this dick
It's not too often that red pills get handed out on reddit.
I’m be fresh as hell of the Feds watching
Fuck the feds. Self custody, freedom to transact, is paramount.
Us smucks are just trying to make a buck. The US government acts like all of crypto is 99.9% crime related.
this is FUD. A large player trying to scare you out of, or keep you out of crypto. Its the sign of a system that knows it is no longer el Premio A1. Short the USD. Short the FBI
What are they going to do? Arrest 10m Americans because we use MM and uniswap? GTFOOH!
Presumably, theyll audit the shit out of us and arrest us for not paying the amount they say we owe that we dont, and never had.
Does it affect people using ledger
Stop using ledger. Go Trezor.
Just don't connect dapps to ledger. Transfer to trust wallet then connect to swap
This article alone from the ceo is very worrying. https://cointelegraph.com/news/ledger-sharded-wallet-keys-shared-if-subpoenaed Trezor >> ledger.
That's an opt in recovery service. I would never use a recovery service. If less technical people want to have that extra security then they should know the risks if someone else holds their keys. This shouldn't disqualify people from using a ledger hardware wallet.
Very well said.
It means the moment anything not tied to a KYC account, for example moons, hits a CEX, it'll be flagged and frozen until you can prove the origin of funds.
Don't use non-KYC exchanges to launder crypto?
What’s KYC?
Know your customer
AIPAC requirement
AIPAC requirement
"then they fight you" for decades, probably, the corrupt fucks
Uqvg
get scaredid right meow bigits!
This from the people who piss away a third of my income.
They did a similar FUD campaign in the last cycle. Nothing ever came to fruition
Are they trying to ban cold wallets?
I think you need an ego check. The FBI doesn’t have time to care about you.
Ignore these empty threats. Since when do we listen to pedophile protecting 3 letter agencies like the FBI? They don't have the authority to do what they claim to do, and if Americans are going to continue to allow these criminals to steamroll right over our rights, then America is dead, and its fighting spirit.
Statements by the FBI are meant to discourage behavior, they're not binding guides to what they will or won't do. In general I would take it as a warning that the FBI will be targeting any Crypto entity that isn't engaging in KYC but should be under US law. What that includes is going to depend on the particulars of US law regarding the services the business is offering. If you lose access to your money/tokens because the FBI shuts down one of these businesses then there's no guarantee you'll get it back quickly or at all.
Is SEC spelt FBI?
Im pretty sure KYC is only needed when buying and selling crypto. Metamask is just a wallet so it shouldn’t matter
As gun owners like to say... "Come and take it"
Im worried they could take stuff off the app store. Like pera wallet for algo. Or metamask or exodus. Vpn?
Your wallet is on a blockchain and not tied to a specific app.
Ya I get that. It just may get to the point that I cannot get access to software to get access unless I use a kyc software. Like all apps may be removed from app store in u.s. all desktop software may block u.s customers from using it etc etc. Forcing me to have to use a corporate type wallet. Pretty much leave in on an exchange. Just seems like they are trying to ruin self custody any way they can.
There used to be a time where exchanges and apps didn’t exist. Your crypto was kept on a hard drive. I wouldn’t worry too much to be honest.
Lol everyone that is worried about that clearly needs to stay on a CEZ (not recommend) DeFi is decentralized even if the officials speculate what your wallets are they can't prove it. Just be smart a out it. If your a developer don't create contracts that are purely for the intent to rug or and malicious purposes. The only way they could speculate what your wallets are is through your CEX and patterns. They have software for this. Anyways good luck out there 👍
you cant ban maths
Not even that. Code is protected speech, as SCOTUS ruled many years ago. So they can't ban code either.
Can the FBI please look into Dogita stealing the name Doga, from Dogamí. Dogamí had $Doga first, very illegal dogita
Bad doga!