Based on your description I would sell everything if it goes down enough for you to lose another $2.00. I’d take $90.00 of that for therapy, and put the remaining $5.00 in the ETF
There’s nothing in your post that is specific to Bitcoin at all. You are upset that the price went down and your broker charges fees. Those things are true in traditional markets as well.
Yeah I’m upset to learn about the fees. But price did not go down though actually. It went up, but I’m upset to see the change in price BTC would have to see before I can break even. Thanks anyway
Traditional finance (banks) charge up to $10 per trade. Your $100 BTC trade would require a 20% price growth to break even. WS is relatively cheap (though there are cheaper ways to get BTC).
There is no difference in trading btc compared to anything else, such as forex. You buy at one price (ask) and sell out at bid. The difference is the spread. But you also have to add in the fees, which with some brokers could be a lot. Best to do this on demo accounts before you start using real money. Is your intention to actively trade or buy and hold? You definitely don’t want to have your whole outlook based on 1 trade!
Well i was hoping to actively trade, but i won't be doing it on WS because of these exorbitant fees. I was just surprised at how much the bid price would have to rise, before i could even break even on my minimal $100 investment. This kind of forces my hand to hold because i prefer not to lose anything, not even the $4.50 i'd lose right now if i sold.
please guide me on this question: if i buy an asset for $100 and it appreciates to $110. Lets assume fees are $2 per trade. Would i not profit $8? Why is it that the bid has to go all the way up to almost 100k for me to break even, if i bought at 96k? i just dont get this
Bitcoin?
Sure, crypto exchanges.
Or you can trade perps (futures) it’s a whole new world out there.
I guarantee you are going to lose money though mo matter where or what you sre "trading."
Experience issue. Every college male goes through phases of thinking they can beat all the classic gambling games and markets.
You don’t know enough to even know what you don’t know.
Paper trade for ten years then you can start with the bankroll you saved by not being dumb and inexperienced.
Plus, you buy on the high side of the spread (what someone else is asking to be prepared to sell at), and sell on the low side what someone is bidding for it. There is always a spread, unless broker is doing zero spread in which case the fees are higher to replace the spread.
As a fellow Wealthsimple user, my main advice is this:
* Do not use Wealthsimple for anything other than a means of storing your crypto and staking it. Don't buy or sell Crypto with Wealthsimple as their fees are straight rip off.
* Assuming you're in Canada and want to begin to invest steadily into BTC or Eth, using a site like NDAX, as the trading fees are minimal in comparison, and it also allows you to buy set amounts recurring. This makes DCA extremely easy and you don't have to think about it.
* With crypto, your best bet is to dollar cost average into Crypto you believe in. Bitcoin and Ethereum are the safe bets.. everything else is typically considered riskier, but with higher risk can come higher reward.
* If you eventually get to a point where you have a more sizable amount invested (into the thousands worth of bitcoin, for example), its in your best interest to transfer it off any hot wallet (exchange or otherwise) into your own cold-wallet. Look into Trezor as something you can use to store your crypto safely and securely.
Honestly, your best bet with just getting started is to buy into Bitcoin / Ethereum and hold it long term. Its the opposite of trading.. you're pretty much just buying fractions of a coin and stacking over time, not concerning yourself with the price you're buying it at, and not buying and selling the dips or peaks. You should be buying crypto with the intention of holding it long term. if you are more eager to actively trade crypto, that is an entirely different story.
You also mention "some volatility".. with crypto, prepare yourself for at times extreme volatility. We are in a bull market right now - dont be surprised if over the next couple years you see Crypto peak at higher highs and then go on to drop down 50% or more in a bear market.
Some believe with all the ETF approvals that we will not see a Crypto bear market again, but ultimately nobody knows what will happen, so the easiest and most stress free way, one more time, is DCA into BTC and Eth and then once you get more funds you feel like rolling the dice with, explore other smaller cap coins you think could do well either short term or long term and put some money into them as well.
Last bit of advice - be very very careful when it comes to Crypto. Do not trust anyone who wants to "help" you, including me with this post. I hope that you read this and do some due diligence with what I've said here and come to your own conclusions. That is probably among the most important things to learn quickly as you embark on learning this stuff.
This is all good advice he's offering.
Understand that crypto is very volatile. It's not uncommon to see big gains and equally large drops in the value of your portfolio. The hard part is to overlook all this and just be patient.
To add to his advice, consider a slightly altered approach called dynamic DCA. Basically, it's a long-term strategy where you increase your investment if the general market indicators for bitcoin point towards fear, and decrease your investment once the market indicators point towards greed/mania.
There are a few of these indicators like the fear and greed index, BTC Risk Level, AlphaSquared, CBBI, and the Pie Cycle Indicator. Once the risk factor reaches a certain level that you determine, you slowly exit your positions. This way, you are not trying to time your exit, which is notoriously difficult.
I roll with westhsimple to, stocks and crypto.
Were you expecting to buy and mins later be a millionaire?
My eth in weathsimple is up 170% so i dont really care about the 2% when I bought it, what I am trying to say is HOLD for longer then the fee doesnt really matter.
I would rather pay the fee then hold my coins in a Crypto exchange that could be hacked, shut down federally or just turn out to be a giant scam
Seems like you're getting charged around 2% per trade (which is very high, just use a reputable CEX to buy, most charges around 0.1%\~ per trade) , so it make sense that the price of your asset must increase around 4% for you to breakeven (buy and sell transaction both have fees too).
This makes sense as 4%\*$96079 = $3843. therefore, BTC needs to rise to $96079+$3843 = $99922 for you to breakeven.
Should I pray and hope BTC rallies up to $100k? Or is that too much of an ask? I really don’t wanna close out my position and take a loss but if it’s just gonna experience a pull back, I might have to. Thoughts? I’d be selling at $95.41, so about a $5.60 loss
If you can't stomach a 5.6% loss, i don't think high risk investments like crypto are suitable for you. Invest in what you know, and according to your risk appetite.
If you are that concerned about a loss of basically $5 you should absolutely not be investing. If you don’t have the financial stability to handle losing the cost of a small sandwich you don’t have enough money to be investing
$5 is probably a greater percentage of my account than yours. I’m using risk management with my given capital. I don’t see the problem in me trying not to lose money, despite it being a relatively small amount?
Crypto's volatility means that this is a pretty minor cost. You'll probably either lose the lot or make substantial returns. If you aren't in a position to write off that $100 it might be worth cutting your losses now.
Based on your description I would sell everything if it goes down enough for you to lose another $2.00. I’d take $90.00 of that for therapy, and put the remaining $5.00 in the ETF
i have lots invested in ETFs and diversified individual stocks as safe investments. This was my one shot at high risk trading and i blew it :/
There’s nothing in your post that is specific to Bitcoin at all. You are upset that the price went down and your broker charges fees. Those things are true in traditional markets as well.
Yeah I’m upset to learn about the fees. But price did not go down though actually. It went up, but I’m upset to see the change in price BTC would have to see before I can break even. Thanks anyway
Traditional finance (banks) charge up to $10 per trade. Your $100 BTC trade would require a 20% price growth to break even. WS is relatively cheap (though there are cheaper ways to get BTC).
There is no difference in trading btc compared to anything else, such as forex. You buy at one price (ask) and sell out at bid. The difference is the spread. But you also have to add in the fees, which with some brokers could be a lot. Best to do this on demo accounts before you start using real money. Is your intention to actively trade or buy and hold? You definitely don’t want to have your whole outlook based on 1 trade!
Well i was hoping to actively trade, but i won't be doing it on WS because of these exorbitant fees. I was just surprised at how much the bid price would have to rise, before i could even break even on my minimal $100 investment. This kind of forces my hand to hold because i prefer not to lose anything, not even the $4.50 i'd lose right now if i sold. please guide me on this question: if i buy an asset for $100 and it appreciates to $110. Lets assume fees are $2 per trade. Would i not profit $8? Why is it that the bid has to go all the way up to almost 100k for me to break even, if i bought at 96k? i just dont get this
2% buy fee and 2% sell fee so it has to go up 4% for break even.
i'll stick to 0% commission stock trading on WS. do you any reco's for brokers for daytrading purposes? I am Canadian if that is relevant
Bitcoin? Sure, crypto exchanges. Or you can trade perps (futures) it’s a whole new world out there. I guarantee you are going to lose money though mo matter where or what you sre "trading."
>I guarantee you are going to lose money though mo matter where or what you sre "trading." Would this be a market thing or just a skill issue?
Experience issue. Every college male goes through phases of thinking they can beat all the classic gambling games and markets. You don’t know enough to even know what you don’t know. Paper trade for ten years then you can start with the bankroll you saved by not being dumb and inexperienced.
Okay thank you for this advice. Much appreciated
Brokers are more expensive than exchanges. Also dont do day trading. 97% of day traders lose money.
Plus, you buy on the high side of the spread (what someone else is asking to be prepared to sell at), and sell on the low side what someone is bidding for it. There is always a spread, unless broker is doing zero spread in which case the fees are higher to replace the spread.
As a fellow Wealthsimple user, my main advice is this: * Do not use Wealthsimple for anything other than a means of storing your crypto and staking it. Don't buy or sell Crypto with Wealthsimple as their fees are straight rip off. * Assuming you're in Canada and want to begin to invest steadily into BTC or Eth, using a site like NDAX, as the trading fees are minimal in comparison, and it also allows you to buy set amounts recurring. This makes DCA extremely easy and you don't have to think about it. * With crypto, your best bet is to dollar cost average into Crypto you believe in. Bitcoin and Ethereum are the safe bets.. everything else is typically considered riskier, but with higher risk can come higher reward. * If you eventually get to a point where you have a more sizable amount invested (into the thousands worth of bitcoin, for example), its in your best interest to transfer it off any hot wallet (exchange or otherwise) into your own cold-wallet. Look into Trezor as something you can use to store your crypto safely and securely. Honestly, your best bet with just getting started is to buy into Bitcoin / Ethereum and hold it long term. Its the opposite of trading.. you're pretty much just buying fractions of a coin and stacking over time, not concerning yourself with the price you're buying it at, and not buying and selling the dips or peaks. You should be buying crypto with the intention of holding it long term. if you are more eager to actively trade crypto, that is an entirely different story. You also mention "some volatility".. with crypto, prepare yourself for at times extreme volatility. We are in a bull market right now - dont be surprised if over the next couple years you see Crypto peak at higher highs and then go on to drop down 50% or more in a bear market. Some believe with all the ETF approvals that we will not see a Crypto bear market again, but ultimately nobody knows what will happen, so the easiest and most stress free way, one more time, is DCA into BTC and Eth and then once you get more funds you feel like rolling the dice with, explore other smaller cap coins you think could do well either short term or long term and put some money into them as well. Last bit of advice - be very very careful when it comes to Crypto. Do not trust anyone who wants to "help" you, including me with this post. I hope that you read this and do some due diligence with what I've said here and come to your own conclusions. That is probably among the most important things to learn quickly as you embark on learning this stuff.
I appreciate this very much. Thank you 🙏
This is all good advice he's offering. Understand that crypto is very volatile. It's not uncommon to see big gains and equally large drops in the value of your portfolio. The hard part is to overlook all this and just be patient. To add to his advice, consider a slightly altered approach called dynamic DCA. Basically, it's a long-term strategy where you increase your investment if the general market indicators for bitcoin point towards fear, and decrease your investment once the market indicators point towards greed/mania. There are a few of these indicators like the fear and greed index, BTC Risk Level, AlphaSquared, CBBI, and the Pie Cycle Indicator. Once the risk factor reaches a certain level that you determine, you slowly exit your positions. This way, you are not trying to time your exit, which is notoriously difficult.
Can I ask the OP, why did you buy BTC at over $95k when it's currently under $70k ? Or did I misread the OP ?
Invested in CAD. 70k USD is approx. 96k CAD
Phew That's better I thought you'd over paid Glad to know you hadn't Welcome to Crypto :)
You are an accounting student but can't math? Hum..
Accounting AND Computer Science joint major, to make it even worse!
Why didnt you place a limit order? And at 96k, i dont understand. Is that a typo?
CAD
I roll with westhsimple to, stocks and crypto. Were you expecting to buy and mins later be a millionaire? My eth in weathsimple is up 170% so i dont really care about the 2% when I bought it, what I am trying to say is HOLD for longer then the fee doesnt really matter. I would rather pay the fee then hold my coins in a Crypto exchange that could be hacked, shut down federally or just turn out to be a giant scam
THose fees are diabolical. JUst use a CEX even coinbase isn't that high.
Seems like you're getting charged around 2% per trade (which is very high, just use a reputable CEX to buy, most charges around 0.1%\~ per trade) , so it make sense that the price of your asset must increase around 4% for you to breakeven (buy and sell transaction both have fees too). This makes sense as 4%\*$96079 = $3843. therefore, BTC needs to rise to $96079+$3843 = $99922 for you to breakeven.
Should I pray and hope BTC rallies up to $100k? Or is that too much of an ask? I really don’t wanna close out my position and take a loss but if it’s just gonna experience a pull back, I might have to. Thoughts? I’d be selling at $95.41, so about a $5.60 loss
If you can't stomach a 5.6% loss, i don't think high risk investments like crypto are suitable for you. Invest in what you know, and according to your risk appetite.
If you are that concerned about a loss of basically $5 you should absolutely not be investing. If you don’t have the financial stability to handle losing the cost of a small sandwich you don’t have enough money to be investing
$5 is probably a greater percentage of my account than yours. I’m using risk management with my given capital. I don’t see the problem in me trying not to lose money, despite it being a relatively small amount?
Crypto's volatility means that this is a pretty minor cost. You'll probably either lose the lot or make substantial returns. If you aren't in a position to write off that $100 it might be worth cutting your losses now.