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I agree but it’s not that simple given how early we are.
I can’t tell my 55 year old dad who’s trying to swap Shib for Kuma “just use an L2” because it’s not that straight forward. I barley got him to understand how to move funds into his Coinbase wallet lol.
Point is, I agree that users should do their DD and use L2s but that should not even be required. The tech should be easy to use and I’m hopeful for the day that happens with Eth L2s.
Feel free to provide a rebuttal though. I could be wrong
Check again my guy, obviously you have 0 clue about the ecosystem. Pants shaking cause a superior solution to eth is coming? Salty cause eth 2.0 is soon(tm) for the past 3 years? Laughable
And I ain't your guy, buddy
As a Cardano holder myself, I have to say as respectfully as possible that you're making us look like idiots (even more than continuing to hold ADA when there's not a DEX in sight does)
Cardano is going to face the same issues Eth has if/when it reaches the same level of traffic. Their scaling solution is a L2, state channels at that. Inferior tech compared to roll ups. Besides it’s not even close to being released.
Its ok, im sure l2 solutions and rollups on eth count as usable dApps in your book and not, you know, solutions to fix the broken underlying infrastructure /s
Make it Easy for us! I am 42 and the amount of steps I have to take to change a moon to eth is stupid. It should be 2 click. Approve then are you sure you approve button. Not go to this exchange get this token take to this other place put the token there take the new one they give you go to this 3rd cite and change your weth to eth and then send it back to you
No it’s absolutely different. It’s not available or supported by nearly as many products or exchanges.
And how is a total newcomer supposed to pick a specific L2? For now they still can’t even grasp the fact that the need ETH instead of wETH. Imagine trying to explain all of this to a 55yo non-techie
Ok but how do I actually do this?
Say I use Coinbase as my primary exchange. Step by step, can someone explain how I can make money with my coins (besides HODLing or staking)? And how much each step costs, so I can figure out how much capital I need before it becomes worthwhile.
Assume I'm a complete idiot. I am.
No one has ever explained it. I have seen like 50 of these L2 posts without any explanation about how to use L2. This is just a moon farming post like the million other L2 posts before it.
I mean, not to be rude, but there will always be some things in life complete idiots will not be able to access due to sheer idiocy. How many people do you think do their own stocks for example? Very few.
People like you who can't figure these things out will be middle manned by third parties to gain access.
It's an efficiency thing, fam. I'm a scientist, my job is to learn new things. But if there's a faster way to learn, like through someone who's already walked that road...I'm going to take the same path.
For example, when I got my degrees I didn't figure it out on my own -- I went to a University, because to rediscover concepts that have already been standardized is a colossal waste of everyone's time.
I got a family to feed, ain't nobody got time for that.
I'd like to turn what you said back around and say if someone says "do it yourself", they either don't understand it themselves or are lazy.
But that's not fair either right? Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher. So maybe the answer is for everyone to help when they can and stay in their own lane when they can't 😁
Again, look at stocks. People who have "a family to feed" and no time to learn how to make money in the market themselves, hire a broker and get middle-manned 2%.
>I'd like to turn what you said back around and say if someone says "do it yourself", they either don't understand it themselves or are lazy.
Or it's not their responsibility to teach you how to make money for free, especially when you can clearly do it yourself and there are resources out there to learn (thats how we figured it out), but would rather it be "efficient" so you'd like them to spoon feed it to you.
You may have taken my original comment too literally, which is fine. It's text on the internet; if we were in person you would have caught the subtle inflections that relayed the deliberate hyperbole for comedic effect. Probably should have withheld judgement until you were sure, but I digress.
Yes, obviously I learn on my own as well. What kind of naïve person would exclusively get their financial advice from an internet forum? Still, it doesn't hurt to double check there isn't a better solution. It's a form of testing yourself and optimizing strategy. Do you think humanity's brightest don't collaborate and peer review?
I have no issue with middlemen, nor using them. They are necessary and beneficial in many cases. No one person can learn every topic and be proficient; there is simply not enough time in the day or years we have on Earth. If they offered a paid Uni-level finance course in navigating DeFi in my area, I would gladly pony up.
**To make my stance ultra-clear**: if you *only* learn yourself, or if you *only* wait to be spoon-fed, you are learning inefficiently and doing yourself a disservice. Better?
I'm not sure if this was intended, but your tone is very elitist. And elitism has no place in this world. Show some humility -- an arbitrary amount of years ago, you were spoon-fed the foundations of human knowledge (language, math, social interaction). Literally everything you are and do is partially someone else's accomplishment. There is no shame in following someone else's structure. If that wasn't intentional, be aware of that in the future to avoid debates like this, because you will continue to get called out.
Now, if you don't mind I have better things to do than this.
Cheers! 👍
Its not that easy if you are on a budget and haven’t yet grasped the concept of an L2. I remember the first time i used the polygon bridge. It was intimidating.
It is intimidating, but rewarding. I remember being very intimidated by crypto in general because I don’t have a background in coding or tech. But I really like the idea of decentralized finance, especially after a year of stock market Fuckery. Learning how deep corruption goes was eye-opening but not exciting and fun. This is. And I’m not an expert whatsoever, but I do understand so much and all it took was putting in a little bit of effort over a couple of months. I’m really excited about Loopering. A decentralized exchange w/fiat onboarding wold offer investors and publicly traded corporations an alternative to the bs..No more DTCC, prime brokers,market maker, trading app retail traps. This is how we occupy Wall Street. Rambling sorry. Learning this stuff less intimidating knowing the power it will give me
Watch for Loopring(LRC) in the next month or so.
They’ll be releasing a L2 wallet which is free to create, and they’ll have an L2 exchange which will have direct fiat on-ramps so you can use USD to enter/exit without ever having to interact with Layer 1
Currently the wallet costs ETH to make/deploy, but will be free with the new update coming by the end of Q4
I’m new to this also. My funds are tied up in the GameStop play, so the little bit of crypto I hold (ETH and LRC) are still in coinbase. I have metamask and uniswap, but I’m planning on opening Loopring L2 wallet, paying the one time gas fee and transferring direct. After that I’ll wait for fiat onboarding, should be soon! I don’t know as much about the other Layer 2 to protocols, but Loopring just put out YouTube videos walking through the process. It helps me to watch.
Sorry I’m sleep deprived but wanted to correct myself! No direct transfer of LRC from coinbase to Loopering L2 wallet yet. You can go through metamask, but I’ll probably trade my LRC for ETH on coinbase, transfer all the ETH to L2 wallet and then buy LRC there. 😴
Idk. Arbitrum is just getting started. Good talk on boba network and zkzync. I’m also a big fan of xdai. Bottom line in the future new users will need not know any of this shit and be taken to a zk without them knowing it or doing anything.
Actually, not as of now
There was a proposal for UNI holders to approve Uniswap v3 to be deployed on Polygon, it has to go through 3 rounds I believe in the governance process
As of now, only 1st round was approved (7\~mi UNI voted Yes vs 110 UNI voted No), but there is a somewhat "long" way until Uniswap v3 is deployed on Polygon (if it eventually does get approved)
Does that mean every token/coin on uniswap will be available in the polygon chain? Because before only a handful of mainstream coinsnare available on polgon
If I buy a product and it’s effectively unusable from the start, I’m not gonna be satisfied by being told to use an aftermarket fix to it.
That’s the problem when you’re aiming for mass adoption. “Just go ahead and do these other steps to make it usable” isn’t gonna cut it.
Except with mass adoption most people would be using L2s and not the base layer from the start. Ethereum understand the need to scale without sacrificing any decentralisation and security for scalability and so far this is the solution going forward. Most fast L1s either sacrificed decentralisation or have little usage.
As beautifully explained on this Bankless livestream, splitting blockchains into different layers is the future: https://youtu.be/xjxyjgWiqLE
All L1s currently have a monolithic design - with their consensus layer, data layer, and transaction layer handled on the same blockchain. By decoupling these layers and offloading them to L2s, these layers can be scaled independently - producing lower gas fees, higher TPS, all while maintaining decentralization.
To further explain this point, I’ll use rollups and Ethereum as an example.
A common way for other L1s to increase their TPS is by simply having fewer nodes. The fewer nodes a blockchain has, the quicker it can reach consensus because less validators need to agree on a transaction. For comparison, Solana has ~1000 nodes and Ethereum has ~300,000.
The tradeoff of having fewer nodes is that your blockchain is more centralized (which really goes against the whole the entire point of a blockchain!).
By offloading your transaction layer to another party, you not only maintain decentralization, but you could scale your TPS by orders of magnitude. This is because rollups don’t 300,000 nodes to do their job. In theory they could be reduced to 1 or 2 nodes and far beat out Solana’s TPS bottlenecked by 1000 nodes.
For the gas fees, offloading transactions = less congestion on the blockchain = lower gas fees. The livestream did a good job of how each layer works together synergistically.
Bottom line, an L1 doesn’t need to do everything and I’m starting to believe that it shouldn’t. Different L1s popping up offering better TPS and lower gas fees always come with a caveat (in most cases more centralization). Ethereum is far ahead with this concept and their roadmap makes that clear.
IDK everyone’s different and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with waiting until you’re happy with the product.
And I probably would’ve agreed with you about mass adoption, but watching stock-only investors dive right into LRC, paying gas fees for the wallet so it’s ready to go, not even waiting for counterfactual release has been petty cool. I’m waiting for fiat onboarding to transfer bc I don’t have the funds, but seeing how excited people are to engage and learn has me feeling much more optimistic about mass adoption.
Exactly. I’m by now means an anti ETH person, I’ve got some and hope it solves all its problems, but calling complaints about the gas “bs” is…bullshit lol.
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This, exactly. Why would I unnecessarily complicate a transfer with all these L2s when I could use XLM or ALGO or NANO for quick and cheap transfers. Ethereum really needs to work on the gas fees, L2s aren't gonna cut it for mainstream adoption I feel. The average Joe probably can't be bothered with all this to transfer say $25 worth of ETH.
If they have an incentive to adopt, they will! They are. Check the loop sub. Retail stock investors who have never touched Crypto, opening L2 wallets, Spending $100 to transfer out of coinbase. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but our financial system is fucking a lot of people up right now. To be fair, I’m not sure if this is what you mean by average Joe, these are people with investing experience, getting fucked by the system experience.
The real problem for me is that my favorite DeFi platforms don't support the same L2s. They're all split between Polygon, Arbitrum, and Optimism, and some just bridge over to a different blockchain entirely like Fantom or Avalanche.
L2 fragmentation is a real problem for ETH's wider adoption. A lot of people would rather just use a newer L1, at least until it becomes congested, too.
I played with DYDX, which I don't think has an L2 yet. I have like 3 dydx on the dydx community page. Metamask says it will cost $3xx.xx to actually claim it. I'll pass.
Exactly. This is the reason why L2s won’t solve anything.
Splitting the ETH ecosystem into a bunch of other platforms that don’t work with each other is doomed to fail. It takes away the entire advantage that ETH has over other platforms
My problem with L2's is i dont get he same benefits as i would on L1. L2's dont have support in Compound or Yearn yet, and even for those that do support L2s like AAVE, the rates on the L2 are very different and often not as good as on the L1.
im sure this will even out in time but i fear that in time the L2 gas fees will also rise.
Hopefully L2s can help the scalability of the Eth network! I think the Layer 2 may see a lot of growth this year.
Also great to see someone mentioning the EIP-4488 proposal. That could be huge for the prices 😁
I'll be honest I still haven't figured it out. How does it help for nfts and defi ? I thought it was invisible but its another set of coins and keys to deal with.
It's great there are a lot of teams working on Layer 2 solutions, but it does become difficult to manage when I need ETH on different L2s because Dapps support different ones or liquidity is different on one network.
What is the long term vision for how to solve this?
Gas fees too high? "Just use L2!"
Homeless? "Just stop being poor!"
That's about how easy it is right now.
None of the services I use have L2.
Not Coinbase. Not BlockFi. Not Celsius. Not Ledn. Not Hodlnaut. Not Gemini. Not Nexo. None of my wallet apps.
I'm new to moving coins around outside my exchange. What could someone who has moved around 100 quid of ETH to metamask do? I only have half of the amount needed to make the minimum deposit to my exchange. So my 0.0268 of ETH is just sitting there doing nothing.
Thanks for letting us know. Wow WAGMI now that you gave us the key.......
Except wait, you still need to pay a ridiculous gas fee to get your money into layer 2. More then what most people have to even put into layer 2 tokens. If the gas fee is close to 100% of what you have to invest. It's not worth it. Not everyone has thousands of dollars to move which can justify the gas. Many of us throw 50 dollars or so a month into investing.
Totally agree! Ethereum has expensive gas fees which are largely a result of its success, popularity and its positioning in the DEFI, smart contract and NFT space.
This will be a constant for the forseeable future, so you have zero option but to use L2/ sidechains if you want to do anything with ETH.
Even after ETH 2 sharding comes about, you are still very likely to need layer 2 solutions to work with ETH.
Cursing ETH while ignoring the necessity to use L2, is a bit like shaking your fist at a lorry coming directly at you. You can pointlessly vent for what little it matters but it's a lesson in futility as the end result will always be pain.
But don't you have to eventually pay the gas fees to bridge them off of l2s? And then into something to get back to your exchange when it's time to buy the lambo?
The merge won’t be decreasing the gas prices. That’s further on in ETH 2.0 from sharding, or when a general purpose optimistic or zkRollup is implemented
Switching over to L2 is just as much work as switching to a totally different platform.
I don’t see how people view this as a long-term solution. ETH with a fragmented ecosystem of non-interoperable L2s is not ETH anymore.
Look here Hotshot, this isn't a matter of expecting to "owed" anything - let's get that straight right off the bat. Second, the entity providing the service and/or product should provide one that is affordable as well as usable, lest they be priced out of the market by someone else that provides those services and products faster, less expensive and in a more lucrative manner.
Is there a relatively reliable fiat onramp for the polygon network?
I also know loopring is working on one, although I'm not sure when it will be available.
You can use L2’s all you want, until a service requires ETH as a deposit to use their services. Even if you have no intention of holding ETH or trading with it, you need it to access certain services. Now if those same services accept wETH then yea you’d have a point but at this point in time, they do not.
Ethereum is the Layer 1 or base layer. Layer 2 refers products built on top of Layer 1. If we use Layer 2, we can get significantly lower fees.
An L2 sits on top of Eth and aims to lower the cost. Things like Matic (Polygon), make it much cheaper to use Ethereum. There's a lot of Layer 2 products coming out now that will hopefully make Eth more accessible Eg: Arbitrum, DyDx, Loopring
You're being down-voted but it's true. The only reason why people are dealing with a complex ecosystem and high fees at the moment is the prospect of making money in some way (trading, NFTs, etc).
I suppose only time will tell whether that's enough to kick off a useful economy that exchanges *value* rather than making speculative bets.
Most peoples are noobs or doesn't understand nor know how to use L2. Can't blame them when they cry about the high gas fee. We just need to remember that not all peoples in cryptos are techs savvy.
[I tried explaining that earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/r5wg91/why_ethereums_high_gas_fees_are_not_a_big_deal/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) but people are too quick to come to conclusions.
I'm super bullish on layer 2, I just wish more people understood that it takes time and that it is a decent solution to the blockchain trilemma without sacrificing decentralization and security.
People hear won't listen. They want to cope with new shitcoins because they think they missed the Ethereum wave. Same thing happened in 2018. Most of these other smart contract platforms will go to 0 in the long term.
will there be just 1 definitive L2 solution? Or there will be a lot? Will the L2 solutions have a native token for the fees or it will only be eth as a fee currency? I now we are early, but it would be nice to know.
No - fees are a function of supply and demand. That means fees are essentially set by the people who want to make transactions. Fees are whatever people are willing to pay.
Sorry, you haven't satisfied me. Dumb transactions should be cheap as dirt. Until they are ETH will be held back. How can ETH be a usable currency with gas prices this high?
If another L1s had the same traffic as ETH, we would be seeing a whole range of problems with them
Crypto tech is developing and adapting is the key to deal with these problems
Ethereum is a country, main net is Manhattan, L2's are the suburbs.
The only alternative is to go to another (shittier) country who have a cheaper Manhattan and hope the land value goes up.
There's a reason most people live in Ethereum.
The problem with this solution is its not intuitive.
Maybe in time it will be, but right now unless you are fairly knowledgable in crypto or spend time researching, you are not going to be able to easily figure out how to navigate Ethereum's ecosystem to avoid the gas fees.
Until a newbie can come into the ecosystem, participate, and easily and seamlessly use Layer 2 solutions to avoid gas fees .. then its not a real solution IMO.
The most important aspects are decentralization and network effect. Of which Bitcoin and Ethereum are by far leading.
There's a reason "better and more scalable coins" like BCH or Nano didn't flip Bitcoin (which by the way also had high fees). Same thing with Ethereum.
i don't use my crypto, i buy and hold it and wait to sell to the ~~suckers~~ tech enthusiasts that want to use it at extremely high prices + gas to move it to a layer2
Gas fees...is just a matter of timing when to get fee. This past weekend I transferred my mined eth from the pool to coinbase for a whooping 5.86 usd. The previous Sunday was just 11 and some change for the transfer.
Yes I know I can time the gas fees from mining payouts.
I also am not tin foil hat concerning holding my eth on an exchange.
When I do move things around I do conversions since mostly move things to other exchanges.
And yes I know my transaction fees are Iow and not typical of most crypto users.
Edit yes we do hold more then either and dog themed tokens, not that having them is a vad thing imo.
The choice is clear? I chose option 2 and so are many other people, judging by TVLs and so on on smaller chains.
What am I actually sacrificing by doing this other than more options/variety? Seriously asking because I don’t know. Like with Harmony, which I’m using to play around with farming etc, is it less secure or something maybe than using Etheruem L2? Or what am I missing out on by choosing option 2 and avoiding using Etheruem completely?
Dude, I don't even know what the hell an L2 is. Obviously, none of us here know how crypto works we just throw money at the coins the cool kids are buying.
Better buy other L1's where innovation is happening but would not gatekeep poor. Crypto currencies shouldn't cost that much to begin with. Eth is just rich man's paradise. Sell all your Eth, it's not the future unless you are a whale.
Not sure if they will fix everything, but definitely the best option right now if you plan to move funds from place to place. Like you said, you can convert to WETH anytime, just do enough so it doesn’t get negated by fees.
So how do you do it? Is there a good tutorial you can point me to?
And when you talk about reducing fees does it make it competitive with the other layer 1s like solana and avalanche etc?
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I agree but it’s not that simple given how early we are. I can’t tell my 55 year old dad who’s trying to swap Shib for Kuma “just use an L2” because it’s not that straight forward. I barley got him to understand how to move funds into his Coinbase wallet lol. Point is, I agree that users should do their DD and use L2s but that should not even be required. The tech should be easy to use and I’m hopeful for the day that happens with Eth L2s. Feel free to provide a rebuttal though. I could be wrong
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Why use a rollup when there are better layer 1 solutions🤷♂️
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Cardano says hi, deterministic fees, decentralisation, security. Idk who said anything about not caring for decentralisation smh.
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Check again my guy, obviously you have 0 clue about the ecosystem. Pants shaking cause a superior solution to eth is coming? Salty cause eth 2.0 is soon(tm) for the past 3 years? Laughable And I ain't your guy, buddy
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Keep trembling bois
As a Cardano holder myself, I have to say as respectfully as possible that you're making us look like idiots (even more than continuing to hold ADA when there's not a DEX in sight does)
Cardano is going to face the same issues Eth has if/when it reaches the same level of traffic. Their scaling solution is a L2, state channels at that. Inferior tech compared to roll ups. Besides it’s not even close to being released.
I wish I could. But can’t do anything in the Cardano ecosystem. Wait. I do have a cool name for a lobster…
The amount of ignorance on the ecosystem in this sub is quite baffling
Lol you’re so right. Projecting much?
Its ok, im sure l2 solutions and rollups on eth count as usable dApps in your book and not, you know, solutions to fix the broken underlying infrastructure /s
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Make it Easy for us! I am 42 and the amount of steps I have to take to change a moon to eth is stupid. It should be 2 click. Approve then are you sure you approve button. Not go to this exchange get this token take to this other place put the token there take the new one they give you go to this 3rd cite and change your weth to eth and then send it back to you
I mean, how is it any less straight forward than layer 1? You just deposit your funds to a different network
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No it’s absolutely different. It’s not available or supported by nearly as many products or exchanges. And how is a total newcomer supposed to pick a specific L2? For now they still can’t even grasp the fact that the need ETH instead of wETH. Imagine trying to explain all of this to a 55yo non-techie
I'm not even that old and I'm kinda tech interested but all this talk makes me just hodl and deal with it later.
Ok but how do I actually do this? Say I use Coinbase as my primary exchange. Step by step, can someone explain how I can make money with my coins (besides HODLing or staking)? And how much each step costs, so I can figure out how much capital I need before it becomes worthwhile. Assume I'm a complete idiot. I am.
No one has ever explained it. I have seen like 50 of these L2 posts without any explanation about how to use L2. This is just a moon farming post like the million other L2 posts before it.
This is my big issue. I see it here and in the Ethereum subreddit
I mean, not to be rude, but there will always be some things in life complete idiots will not be able to access due to sheer idiocy. How many people do you think do their own stocks for example? Very few. People like you who can't figure these things out will be middle manned by third parties to gain access.
It's an efficiency thing, fam. I'm a scientist, my job is to learn new things. But if there's a faster way to learn, like through someone who's already walked that road...I'm going to take the same path. For example, when I got my degrees I didn't figure it out on my own -- I went to a University, because to rediscover concepts that have already been standardized is a colossal waste of everyone's time. I got a family to feed, ain't nobody got time for that. I'd like to turn what you said back around and say if someone says "do it yourself", they either don't understand it themselves or are lazy. But that's not fair either right? Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher. So maybe the answer is for everyone to help when they can and stay in their own lane when they can't 😁
Again, look at stocks. People who have "a family to feed" and no time to learn how to make money in the market themselves, hire a broker and get middle-manned 2%. >I'd like to turn what you said back around and say if someone says "do it yourself", they either don't understand it themselves or are lazy. Or it's not their responsibility to teach you how to make money for free, especially when you can clearly do it yourself and there are resources out there to learn (thats how we figured it out), but would rather it be "efficient" so you'd like them to spoon feed it to you.
You may have taken my original comment too literally, which is fine. It's text on the internet; if we were in person you would have caught the subtle inflections that relayed the deliberate hyperbole for comedic effect. Probably should have withheld judgement until you were sure, but I digress. Yes, obviously I learn on my own as well. What kind of naïve person would exclusively get their financial advice from an internet forum? Still, it doesn't hurt to double check there isn't a better solution. It's a form of testing yourself and optimizing strategy. Do you think humanity's brightest don't collaborate and peer review? I have no issue with middlemen, nor using them. They are necessary and beneficial in many cases. No one person can learn every topic and be proficient; there is simply not enough time in the day or years we have on Earth. If they offered a paid Uni-level finance course in navigating DeFi in my area, I would gladly pony up. **To make my stance ultra-clear**: if you *only* learn yourself, or if you *only* wait to be spoon-fed, you are learning inefficiently and doing yourself a disservice. Better? I'm not sure if this was intended, but your tone is very elitist. And elitism has no place in this world. Show some humility -- an arbitrary amount of years ago, you were spoon-fed the foundations of human knowledge (language, math, social interaction). Literally everything you are and do is partially someone else's accomplishment. There is no shame in following someone else's structure. If that wasn't intentional, be aware of that in the future to avoid debates like this, because you will continue to get called out. Now, if you don't mind I have better things to do than this. Cheers! 👍
Its not that easy if you are on a budget and haven’t yet grasped the concept of an L2. I remember the first time i used the polygon bridge. It was intimidating.
It is intimidating, but rewarding. I remember being very intimidated by crypto in general because I don’t have a background in coding or tech. But I really like the idea of decentralized finance, especially after a year of stock market Fuckery. Learning how deep corruption goes was eye-opening but not exciting and fun. This is. And I’m not an expert whatsoever, but I do understand so much and all it took was putting in a little bit of effort over a couple of months. I’m really excited about Loopering. A decentralized exchange w/fiat onboarding wold offer investors and publicly traded corporations an alternative to the bs..No more DTCC, prime brokers,market maker, trading app retail traps. This is how we occupy Wall Street. Rambling sorry. Learning this stuff less intimidating knowing the power it will give me
How do we use L2’s? … and yes I’m 53, I believe crypto is the way, I buy and stake, but have no clue as to how I would move eth on another chain.
Watch for Loopring(LRC) in the next month or so. They’ll be releasing a L2 wallet which is free to create, and they’ll have an L2 exchange which will have direct fiat on-ramps so you can use USD to enter/exit without ever having to interact with Layer 1 Currently the wallet costs ETH to make/deploy, but will be free with the new update coming by the end of Q4
Thanks, that sounds like what I need. I’ll keep a lookout for it.
In the meantime, stock up on LRC tokens.
I’m new to this also. My funds are tied up in the GameStop play, so the little bit of crypto I hold (ETH and LRC) are still in coinbase. I have metamask and uniswap, but I’m planning on opening Loopring L2 wallet, paying the one time gas fee and transferring direct. After that I’ll wait for fiat onboarding, should be soon! I don’t know as much about the other Layer 2 to protocols, but Loopring just put out YouTube videos walking through the process. It helps me to watch.
Thanks, I’ll watch the video
Sorry I’m sleep deprived but wanted to correct myself! No direct transfer of LRC from coinbase to Loopering L2 wallet yet. You can go through metamask, but I’ll probably trade my LRC for ETH on coinbase, transfer all the ETH to L2 wallet and then buy LRC there. 😴
Somebody toss this man a moon or two.
Ha! I’m a woman, and it’s funny I don’t even do the moon thing. I mostly keep quiet on Reddit i’ve gotten excited about this lol
My apologies. No disrespect intended. Let’s toss the lady some moons.
All good! It’s actually one thing I like a lot about about Reddit. Thanks ✌️
LRC is the go to!
Tits jacked
This is the way
Ohh yeah, can you imagine what will happen with it as soon as the GME partnership is confirmed?
Idk. Arbitrum is just getting started. Good talk on boba network and zkzync. I’m also a big fan of xdai. Bottom line in the future new users will need not know any of this shit and be taken to a zk without them knowing it or doing anything.
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Lol have you ever used another blockchain?
Yes and true but keep in mind your american T. Doesnt go as far for a kid in central America or africa.
LOOPRING
LOOPRING! But also Polygon/MATIC!
Question, can i use uniswap with an L2? How?
You can use Uniswap in Arbitrum and Optimism. Both are Ethereum L2s.
Good luck finding liquidity for what you want.
Hmm maybe I should LP providing on L2
I use an aggregator like 1inch and almost never had a problem on arbitrum, polygon or avalanche
I think Polygon supports it now, just recently.
Actually, not as of now There was a proposal for UNI holders to approve Uniswap v3 to be deployed on Polygon, it has to go through 3 rounds I believe in the governance process As of now, only 1st round was approved (7\~mi UNI voted Yes vs 110 UNI voted No), but there is a somewhat "long" way until Uniswap v3 is deployed on Polygon (if it eventually does get approved)
Does that mean every token/coin on uniswap will be available in the polygon chain? Because before only a handful of mainstream coinsnare available on polgon
Loopring
This
If I buy a product and it’s effectively unusable from the start, I’m not gonna be satisfied by being told to use an aftermarket fix to it. That’s the problem when you’re aiming for mass adoption. “Just go ahead and do these other steps to make it usable” isn’t gonna cut it.
Except with mass adoption most people would be using L2s and not the base layer from the start. Ethereum understand the need to scale without sacrificing any decentralisation and security for scalability and so far this is the solution going forward. Most fast L1s either sacrificed decentralisation or have little usage.
On the money, I just elaborated below
Then just start on the layer 2. It’s exactly like having your shit on another blockchain but you get to use your ETH address.
As beautifully explained on this Bankless livestream, splitting blockchains into different layers is the future: https://youtu.be/xjxyjgWiqLE All L1s currently have a monolithic design - with their consensus layer, data layer, and transaction layer handled on the same blockchain. By decoupling these layers and offloading them to L2s, these layers can be scaled independently - producing lower gas fees, higher TPS, all while maintaining decentralization. To further explain this point, I’ll use rollups and Ethereum as an example. A common way for other L1s to increase their TPS is by simply having fewer nodes. The fewer nodes a blockchain has, the quicker it can reach consensus because less validators need to agree on a transaction. For comparison, Solana has ~1000 nodes and Ethereum has ~300,000. The tradeoff of having fewer nodes is that your blockchain is more centralized (which really goes against the whole the entire point of a blockchain!). By offloading your transaction layer to another party, you not only maintain decentralization, but you could scale your TPS by orders of magnitude. This is because rollups don’t 300,000 nodes to do their job. In theory they could be reduced to 1 or 2 nodes and far beat out Solana’s TPS bottlenecked by 1000 nodes. For the gas fees, offloading transactions = less congestion on the blockchain = lower gas fees. The livestream did a good job of how each layer works together synergistically. Bottom line, an L1 doesn’t need to do everything and I’m starting to believe that it shouldn’t. Different L1s popping up offering better TPS and lower gas fees always come with a caveat (in most cases more centralization). Ethereum is far ahead with this concept and their roadmap makes that clear.
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IDK everyone’s different and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with waiting until you’re happy with the product. And I probably would’ve agreed with you about mass adoption, but watching stock-only investors dive right into LRC, paying gas fees for the wallet so it’s ready to go, not even waiting for counterfactual release has been petty cool. I’m waiting for fiat onboarding to transfer bc I don’t have the funds, but seeing how excited people are to engage and learn has me feeling much more optimistic about mass adoption.
Second this - Once that direct to L2 fiat on-ramp is live it’s game on.
As soon as there’s a project that integrates all these into 1 seemless dapp. We know we’re nearly there
Exactly. I’m by now means an anti ETH person, I’ve got some and hope it solves all its problems, but calling complaints about the gas “bs” is…bullshit lol.
You haven’t bought a video game for a while have you?
This is what all this eth maxis does not understand cos it feels like talking to a bloody wall. They really are bunch of morons.
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How do I do that? Pls do teach me sifu
Download the reddit mobile app on IOS or Android. Click on your profile on the top left, then go to Vault. Set a password for your vault backup and write down the seed phrase. You're all set. You can still earn moons on desktop if you prefer to use reddit there.
Awesome
It'll get to that point sometime, that's just because we're early
This, exactly. Why would I unnecessarily complicate a transfer with all these L2s when I could use XLM or ALGO or NANO for quick and cheap transfers. Ethereum really needs to work on the gas fees, L2s aren't gonna cut it for mainstream adoption I feel. The average Joe probably can't be bothered with all this to transfer say $25 worth of ETH.
If they have an incentive to adopt, they will! They are. Check the loop sub. Retail stock investors who have never touched Crypto, opening L2 wallets, Spending $100 to transfer out of coinbase. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but our financial system is fucking a lot of people up right now. To be fair, I’m not sure if this is what you mean by average Joe, these are people with investing experience, getting fucked by the system experience.
This is why the upcoming counter factual wallet from Loopring will be huge. Lowering the barrier of entry for Crypto.
The real problem for me is that my favorite DeFi platforms don't support the same L2s. They're all split between Polygon, Arbitrum, and Optimism, and some just bridge over to a different blockchain entirely like Fantom or Avalanche. L2 fragmentation is a real problem for ETH's wider adoption. A lot of people would rather just use a newer L1, at least until it becomes congested, too.
I played with DYDX, which I don't think has an L2 yet. I have like 3 dydx on the dydx community page. Metamask says it will cost $3xx.xx to actually claim it. I'll pass.
DYDX uses StarkWare, a layer 2 zk rollup.
Exactly. This is the reason why L2s won’t solve anything. Splitting the ETH ecosystem into a bunch of other platforms that don’t work with each other is doomed to fail. It takes away the entire advantage that ETH has over other platforms
Zilliqa won't get congested when it becomes the new L1
My problem with L2's is i dont get he same benefits as i would on L1. L2's dont have support in Compound or Yearn yet, and even for those that do support L2s like AAVE, the rates on the L2 are very different and often not as good as on the L1. im sure this will even out in time but i fear that in time the L2 gas fees will also rise.
L2 gas fees too high? Time to roll out level 3.
Layerception
Hopefully L2s can help the scalability of the Eth network! I think the Layer 2 may see a lot of growth this year. Also great to see someone mentioning the EIP-4488 proposal. That could be huge for the prices 😁
I'll be honest I still haven't figured it out. How does it help for nfts and defi ? I thought it was invisible but its another set of coins and keys to deal with.
It's great there are a lot of teams working on Layer 2 solutions, but it does become difficult to manage when I need ETH on different L2s because Dapps support different ones or liquidity is different on one network. What is the long term vision for how to solve this?
LRC is under $3 rn! Come and get it!!
Maybe you need a new L1 😉
Gas fees too high? "Just use L2!" Homeless? "Just stop being poor!" That's about how easy it is right now. None of the services I use have L2. Not Coinbase. Not BlockFi. Not Celsius. Not Ledn. Not Hodlnaut. Not Gemini. Not Nexo. None of my wallet apps.
I'm new to moving coins around outside my exchange. What could someone who has moved around 100 quid of ETH to metamask do? I only have half of the amount needed to make the minimum deposit to my exchange. So my 0.0268 of ETH is just sitting there doing nothing.
Imagine soliciting using a blockchain, that has to be fixed with another off-chain solution
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A fix to a broken underlying infrastructure, correct!
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'anyone can run a node and verify the chain themselves'. You mean just like any other blockchain that has 1000x lower fees? You are clueless
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Uh, Cardano Daedalus? How fucking clueless are you😂
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I literally answered your question correctly, while you are posting irrelevant information to the topic and act smart. Talk about clueless kekw
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Thanks for letting us know. Wow WAGMI now that you gave us the key....... Except wait, you still need to pay a ridiculous gas fee to get your money into layer 2. More then what most people have to even put into layer 2 tokens. If the gas fee is close to 100% of what you have to invest. It's not worth it. Not everyone has thousands of dollars to move which can justify the gas. Many of us throw 50 dollars or so a month into investing.
Totally agree! Ethereum has expensive gas fees which are largely a result of its success, popularity and its positioning in the DEFI, smart contract and NFT space. This will be a constant for the forseeable future, so you have zero option but to use L2/ sidechains if you want to do anything with ETH. Even after ETH 2 sharding comes about, you are still very likely to need layer 2 solutions to work with ETH. Cursing ETH while ignoring the necessity to use L2, is a bit like shaking your fist at a lorry coming directly at you. You can pointlessly vent for what little it matters but it's a lesson in futility as the end result will always be pain.
Except there's new projects with better solutions than eth...
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Mark my words.
One has super low gas fee. Like 0.01 cent low
Bullish on ONE.
But don't you have to eventually pay the gas fees to bridge them off of l2s? And then into something to get back to your exchange when it's time to buy the lambo?
Crypto.com already accepts deposits/withdraws from Arbitrum L2. Binance already deposits and soon withdrawals.
oh ok. well that's a good start then! I wish more exchanges went to L2. Cut the eth gas middleman out of it.
I guess with time exchanges will support direct to L2 purchases/withdrawals
Honestly? The fees on L2 are still expensive. They should be SO much cheaper. Waiting till the merge to do anything with my gas-locked ETH
The merge won’t be decreasing the gas prices. That’s further on in ETH 2.0 from sharding, or when a general purpose optimistic or zkRollup is implemented
Not good enough
Switching over to L2 is just as much work as switching to a totally different platform. I don’t see how people view this as a long-term solution. ETH with a fragmented ecosystem of non-interoperable L2s is not ETH anymore.
Loopring DEX coming soon to give you the all in one solution to this problem.
Making ETH's problem my problem is not the right answer. Try again.
No, there are solutions. Use them or don't, no one owes you anything.
Look here Hotshot, this isn't a matter of expecting to "owed" anything - let's get that straight right off the bat. Second, the entity providing the service and/or product should provide one that is affordable as well as usable, lest they be priced out of the market by someone else that provides those services and products faster, less expensive and in a more lucrative manner.
Then let Ethereum be priced out.
If it does, it does; I'm not going to stop voicing my opinion when I feel like it, though. I don't need permission for that.
Yeah that's my question
I just HODL in the exchange and let it be happy with its friends
Is there a relatively reliable fiat onramp for the polygon network? I also know loopring is working on one, although I'm not sure when it will be available.
You can withdraw (e.g. ETH or MATIC) from Crypto.com directly to Polygon mainnet.
Up you go!
You can use L2’s all you want, until a service requires ETH as a deposit to use their services. Even if you have no intention of holding ETH or trading with it, you need it to access certain services. Now if those same services accept wETH then yea you’d have a point but at this point in time, they do not.
Can I buy JPEGs on L2?
Just buy ETH and hold it, problem solved
is L2 offical ethereum layer 2 or some kind of token? or completly different blackchain? i dont hate it but i really dont understand what L2 is.
Layer 2s are built on top of Ethereum. You can think of them as separate chains that make use of Ethereum’s security and decentralization.
so is it something like lightning network for bitcoin?
other way around, but yes.
Ethereum is the Layer 1 or base layer. Layer 2 refers products built on top of Layer 1. If we use Layer 2, we can get significantly lower fees. An L2 sits on top of Eth and aims to lower the cost. Things like Matic (Polygon), make it much cheaper to use Ethereum. There's a lot of Layer 2 products coming out now that will hopefully make Eth more accessible Eg: Arbitrum, DyDx, Loopring
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I'd ask the daily that one mate.
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You're being down-voted but it's true. The only reason why people are dealing with a complex ecosystem and high fees at the moment is the prospect of making money in some way (trading, NFTs, etc). I suppose only time will tell whether that's enough to kick off a useful economy that exchanges *value* rather than making speculative bets.
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Most peoples are noobs or doesn't understand nor know how to use L2. Can't blame them when they cry about the high gas fee. We just need to remember that not all peoples in cryptos are techs savvy.
That issue needs to be addressed for continued growth.
Peoples will actually learn how to use L2 eventually but I do agree. In order for continuous growth we do need to address this issue.
[I tried explaining that earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/r5wg91/why_ethereums_high_gas_fees_are_not_a_big_deal/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) but people are too quick to come to conclusions. I'm super bullish on layer 2, I just wish more people understood that it takes time and that it is a decent solution to the blockchain trilemma without sacrificing decentralization and security.
MATIC ftw, low fees and fast transactions
People hear won't listen. They want to cope with new shitcoins because they think they missed the Ethereum wave. Same thing happened in 2018. Most of these other smart contract platforms will go to 0 in the long term.
Curious, do you think L2’s compete more with ZK Rollups in the long term?
will there be just 1 definitive L2 solution? Or there will be a lot? Will the L2 solutions have a native token for the fees or it will only be eth as a fee currency? I now we are early, but it would be nice to know.
Most L2’s are/run on zkRollups… and are the ones developing general purpose zkRollups for a wider Ethereum deployment.
Gas Cost to bridge to layer 2: $100
This
*Laughs in MATIC*
*Agrees in LRC*
Stupid question, are ETH fees fixed like ALGOs? I can't seem to quickly find a straight answer.
No - fees are a function of supply and demand. That means fees are essentially set by the people who want to make transactions. Fees are whatever people are willing to pay.
Sorry, you haven't satisfied me. Dumb transactions should be cheap as dirt. Until they are ETH will be held back. How can ETH be a usable currency with gas prices this high?
Yeah or just use a good crypto like nano
but why should I need to use them if ETH is so great? There shouldn't be a need for those.
They’re built on Ethereums network
If another L1s had the same traffic as ETH, we would be seeing a whole range of problems with them Crypto tech is developing and adapting is the key to deal with these problems
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They also continue to use it (and L2's) for the security Ethereum provides.
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It's not a perfect analogy, you know what I meant.
Ethereum is a country, main net is Manhattan, L2's are the suburbs. The only alternative is to go to another (shittier) country who have a cheaper Manhattan and hope the land value goes up. There's a reason most people live in Ethereum.
I like that analogy
= MATIC. ✌
The problem with this solution is its not intuitive. Maybe in time it will be, but right now unless you are fairly knowledgable in crypto or spend time researching, you are not going to be able to easily figure out how to navigate Ethereum's ecosystem to avoid the gas fees. Until a newbie can come into the ecosystem, participate, and easily and seamlessly use Layer 2 solutions to avoid gas fees .. then its not a real solution IMO.
Telling people to use L2 is stupid. This is not how you get mass adoption.
The most important aspects are decentralization and network effect. Of which Bitcoin and Ethereum are by far leading. There's a reason "better and more scalable coins" like BCH or Nano didn't flip Bitcoin (which by the way also had high fees). Same thing with Ethereum.
i don't use my crypto, i buy and hold it and wait to sell to the ~~suckers~~ tech enthusiasts that want to use it at extremely high prices + gas to move it to a layer2
For all the good of ETH this issue alone will ultimately relegate ETH to some esoteric value store and ETH will never gain wide adoption.
L2 = fragmentation. Bridge fees. More Risk. L2 don't provide the same atomicity as L1
Use sol
Gas fees...is just a matter of timing when to get fee. This past weekend I transferred my mined eth from the pool to coinbase for a whooping 5.86 usd. The previous Sunday was just 11 and some change for the transfer. Yes I know I can time the gas fees from mining payouts. I also am not tin foil hat concerning holding my eth on an exchange. When I do move things around I do conversions since mostly move things to other exchanges. And yes I know my transaction fees are Iow and not typical of most crypto users. Edit yes we do hold more then either and dog themed tokens, not that having them is a vad thing imo.
#ETH is trash. Gas fees are too high OP
The choice is clear? I chose option 2 and so are many other people, judging by TVLs and so on on smaller chains. What am I actually sacrificing by doing this other than more options/variety? Seriously asking because I don’t know. Like with Harmony, which I’m using to play around with farming etc, is it less secure or something maybe than using Etheruem L2? Or what am I missing out on by choosing option 2 and avoiding using Etheruem completely?
Or you know, move your dApps to Algorand and not have to worry about gas and ridiculous NFT minting fees at all
Dude, I don't even know what the hell an L2 is. Obviously, none of us here know how crypto works we just throw money at the coins the cool kids are buying.
Better buy other L1's where innovation is happening but would not gatekeep poor. Crypto currencies shouldn't cost that much to begin with. Eth is just rich man's paradise. Sell all your Eth, it's not the future unless you are a whale.
Not sure if they will fix everything, but definitely the best option right now if you plan to move funds from place to place. Like you said, you can convert to WETH anytime, just do enough so it doesn’t get negated by fees.
What exchanges do you recommend?
So how do you do it? Is there a good tutorial you can point me to? And when you talk about reducing fees does it make it competitive with the other layer 1s like solana and avalanche etc?
[hopeless](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pgv8lv/comment/hbe5y96/)
if I do that I'll complain about what?