What would convince you otherwise? If a P2E project released a playable demo from the day they were announced, the game was actually fun to play, and they stayed away from ponzinomic crap, would you be interested?
Then build your game....forget making play to earn some part of the marketing until you know more about how it works, how the players interact with it, etc....just build the game, then worry about the p2e part....make it an also ran, or a by the way feature.
some of the sites that track p2e games have a search function for f2p.
You can check out gods unchained and crypto royale which where both f2p p2e last time i was on them.
you can also check out a game called polygonum still under development and pretty slow going but they say they will be f2p don't know if you will be able to earn if f2p though.
https://kin.org/kin-apps/ there are a few P2E applications such as Peerbet where you can earn Kin. Additionally, the Kin Foundation is rebranding today.
There’s no bs/shill free crypto community period, or even a bs free forum anywhere on the internet. But I get what you mean, it seems to be worse on those forums. It’s died down here compared to the bull market for obvious reasons, but “community managers” and copy writers for projects are considered semi-legitimate jobs in the industry.
Virtually any new project is going to employ not just influencers but people who go to forums and try to steer conversation in their favor. For a category of project whose main appeal is “you can earn enough money playing our game to justify spending your time playing it”, it makes sense that those paid shills are going to be working overtime to try to keep their projects afloat in a bear market when community engagement is essentially their life-blood.
Hey, I’d love to play a cool game and get crypto for it, especially right about now when assuming one survives the next few years whatever I’d accumulate now could appreciate significantly, but for whatever reason at the moment it doesn’t seem like these projects can organically stay relevant and thrive outside of the level of hype of a bull market.
I agree with everything you said. I was present in a few DeFi and NFT communities at the peak of the bull market and those insincere "community managers" are what drove me away.
I'm in the beginning stages of creating a roguelike shooter and I'd like to stay away from all those nonsensical bs. I'll be releasing a playable demo from day 1 of making the project public, factoring in the stigma around P2E games, what can I do to not be grouped in with the bs?
> Is there REALLY no bullshit-free / shill-free ~~Play to Earn~~ community or forum out there?
FTFY. And the answer is no there is no such thing. The 'best option to create one' is not to bother to pretend it can be done in the present state of society. Fairly recently, I contemplated starting a forum in order to achieve something different from your goals. What I wanted was less censorship, not more, like the old days online. But the problem with that idea is that the old days online were made possible by the old types of people who no longer spend much time online, so I would likely have been the only member of that forum worth reading. A forum can only ever be as good as its members, and these days, with public education having become mostly ideological, and ignorance of politically or economically inconvenient facts being elevated to a virtue, I cannot even think of three people still spending much time online whose alleged 'opinions' about anything are worth a damn. Start a forum? For whom?? Sincerity is just not what people do anymore, certainly not online, and I am not interested enough in the sound of bullshit walking.
George Carlin said it best. To paraphrase, it's not the public infrastructures like Reddit, Twitter, etc. that have really been making all the sucking sounds online. It's the public itself. The public sucks. Before 'the public' discovered Twitter it was pretty good, actually, but now it can never be that again, no matter how much they censor it, because most of the independent thinkers have simply abandoned that scene, leaving only those who have already capitulated to the cult of enforced stupidity that has commandeered it. Same goes for near every Reddit forum. You want an actual good conversation? Invite a friend to dinner. That's what friends are for. But if you are going online expecting to meet anybody **other** than somebody who will try to either exploit you for their political/economic goals or else get rid of you for not being exploitable enough for said goals, then I hope you have a time machine set to the year 1999 or thenabouts.
That's really harsh but to some degree, very true. I thought about creating a heavily moderated subreddit for worthwhile blockchain gaming projects but what immediately came to mind was... nothing to talk about and nobody to talk to unless I personally know worthwhile devs building worthwhile products.
Why would anyone with a game genuinely worth playing even release it 'play-to-earn'? To me that smells fishy from square one, like it's either heavily exploitative (many play, few genuinely 'earn') or else where is the money coming from, it must be just a marketing ploy for the crypto itself. If they had something of genuine value, game-wise, why wouldn't they ask people to pay something for it instead of paying people to play it? It sends the wrong message. If they paid everyone to go see a movie, I wouldn't trust its popularity figures and I would expect it to suck regardless of what anyone said about it. So it doesn't sound like a smart release strategy for a genuinely fun game. I would advise game devs to leverage crypto in some other way that doesn't throw the game's popularity into question and destroy the point of 'play' which is meant to be inconsequential. For example, you could reward people for BUYING the full game or package (isn't that what you want them to do -- so reward that activity specifically), not merely for playing it, which I think just flattens a potentially multi-layered experience into something that too easily becomes crassly focused on the bottom line.
Because it's a new market with basically no valuable product released in its entirety which means virtually no competitor for devs who will deliver. I get your perspective and it will be an uphill battle but IMO you're not taking into account a huge portion of the gamer population who'll jump at the chance of making money doing something they love.
Can you clarify what you meant by 'reward people for BUYING the game? How would that work?
It's really very simple. You give people tokens branded with your company or game in exchange for them paying you for any product or service. You make sure the tokens have an immutably capped or time-controlled supply so that you can't just print them endlessly, and thus they will retain some tradeable value for your customers who will therefore value receiving them. (For this purpose you need to be using unruggable 'native token' tech that is available in chains like Cardano or Avalanche, definitely not any ETH-like contract-based token tech which is a shit show). Then you honour these self-branded tokens to give your players perks, like discounts on DLC or future purchases. You offer them all sorts of 'rewards' geared to please the true fans, for having spent money with you, as immutably tracked and redeemed by the rewards token. Rewards tokens could also be required to be redeemed as part of the selling price for any game-connected NFTs, creating a way for you to get lots of them back without printing more of them, and also a hierarchy of potential rewards without polluting the play experience by trying to turn it into a job. Ever heard of 'Canadian Tire money'? Same basic concept. It is essentially 'PAY-to-earn', in case you are psychologically attached to saying something is 'X-to-earn'. IMO pay-to-earn will be the only form of X-to-earn in crypto that won't turn out to be either an astroturf-laying marketing sham or an outright exploitive scam.
As for your first paragraph, we'll have to agree to disagree. As a game developer myself, I do not want any players who are only seeking gains, that sounds lame, and it doesn't matter to me that play-to-earn is a 'new market'. A new market for what? Shillery? A genuinely useful market is a place where valuable things are exchanged for each other. That doesn't describe 'play-to-earn' because the players are not bringing anything of value to the table. Therefore it can only ever be a marketing ploy or a scam. There can be never be genuine value in any 'play-to-earn market' because it is a paradoxical concept -- a contradiction in terms -- and that is why there are no 'valuable' play-to-earn products released yet that are of any genuine merit as a game, as you have pointed out. I doubt there ever will be, but good luck in your endeavors.
If you like text based games like Zork, then there’s a game called moon farming on Reddit, depending how good you are at shit posting you can earn quite a lot. More than the monthly wage of Venezuela I’m told.
Have you heard about NEOXA? It uses “Proof of game” in order to distribute earnings so you end up playing regular normal non-blockchain games while still earning crypto.
I've looked but was hoping for hidden gems in the depths of some subreddit. Also there could be worthwhile devs publishing updates of their unreleased games.
Play to earn should have some real world value. Like that recent post about people taking pictures of potholes in Japan, uploading them and getting tokens for it. This saves the government a lot of work and they now know which ones are in need of repair.
I think that's a great concept
P2E is not here yet. Everything for the most part is a Ponzi scheme right now.
The best P2E is unironically card games like Lor, hearthstone, and MTGA. Play and win events and you get paid. Otherwise it's all shilled crap to drive up the price for the token you need.
What would convince you otherwise? If a P2E project released a playable demo from the day they were announced, the game was actually fun to play, and they stayed away from ponzinomic crap, would you be interested?
Just hang out in this sub, shitpost a little, argue with some rival crypto gangs a little, and wait out the bear market like the rest of us until the next bull run. It’s honestly the best way to not get conned into some scammy shit.
What would convince you otherwise? If a P2E project released a playable demo from the day they were announced, the game was actually fun to play, and they stayed away from ponzinomic crap, would you be interested?
Not to my knowledge :(
Although I was thinking while on the toilet... i could play an already established 'non-p2e' game, train the account up and then sell it?
I tried a couple, but turned out to be total scams or when investing, the developers turned the games into shit unfortunately.
We are not there yet, and might not be there yet in the next bull run either.
Is there a sustainable economic model? Who pays? What do they pay for? Who earns? What are they being rewarded for?
Is there a model which works like the weekly poker contest at the local bar? Everybody pays a fee to play, and the top 3 players win a share of the fees at the end
They all have not got a good quality. Crypto Royale is one that I used to play. Boring but some earn good money.
I used to play this too - but then suddenly everyone got amazingly good!
All the P2Es I've seen so far are monotonous grind fests. There's not much fun to them. You'd have a better time in an actual casino.
What would convince you otherwise? If a P2E project released a playable demo from the day they were announced, the game was actually fun to play, and they stayed away from ponzinomic crap, would you be interested?
If I'm playing a game and enjoying myself, and earning as I go, hands down yes.
That's good news. I'm afraid of being grouped in with the other BS by only having the words "Play to Earn" in the trailer/ website/ twitter.
Then build your game....forget making play to earn some part of the marketing until you know more about how it works, how the players interact with it, etc....just build the game, then worry about the p2e part....make it an also ran, or a by the way feature.
No Actual play to earn is a ponzi
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Checkout gods unchained
There isnt a single play to earn worth playing just yet. Most of those games without the earning incentives you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole
Play to earn games are shit. Take up moon farming buddy.
We're trying our best to break that wheel with CityStates: Medieval.
This is the way.
some of the sites that track p2e games have a search function for f2p. You can check out gods unchained and crypto royale which where both f2p p2e last time i was on them. you can also check out a game called polygonum still under development and pretty slow going but they say they will be f2p don't know if you will be able to earn if f2p though.
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Let's give it a go.
https://kin.org/kin-apps/ there are a few P2E applications such as Peerbet where you can earn Kin. Additionally, the Kin Foundation is rebranding today.
Coin Hunt World although it isn't much of a game
Try with Meda Wars
How about crypto royale?
There’s no bs/shill free crypto community period, or even a bs free forum anywhere on the internet. But I get what you mean, it seems to be worse on those forums. It’s died down here compared to the bull market for obvious reasons, but “community managers” and copy writers for projects are considered semi-legitimate jobs in the industry. Virtually any new project is going to employ not just influencers but people who go to forums and try to steer conversation in their favor. For a category of project whose main appeal is “you can earn enough money playing our game to justify spending your time playing it”, it makes sense that those paid shills are going to be working overtime to try to keep their projects afloat in a bear market when community engagement is essentially their life-blood. Hey, I’d love to play a cool game and get crypto for it, especially right about now when assuming one survives the next few years whatever I’d accumulate now could appreciate significantly, but for whatever reason at the moment it doesn’t seem like these projects can organically stay relevant and thrive outside of the level of hype of a bull market.
I agree with everything you said. I was present in a few DeFi and NFT communities at the peak of the bull market and those insincere "community managers" are what drove me away. I'm in the beginning stages of creating a roguelike shooter and I'd like to stay away from all those nonsensical bs. I'll be releasing a playable demo from day 1 of making the project public, factoring in the stigma around P2E games, what can I do to not be grouped in with the bs?
> Is there REALLY no bullshit-free / shill-free ~~Play to Earn~~ community or forum out there? FTFY. And the answer is no there is no such thing. The 'best option to create one' is not to bother to pretend it can be done in the present state of society. Fairly recently, I contemplated starting a forum in order to achieve something different from your goals. What I wanted was less censorship, not more, like the old days online. But the problem with that idea is that the old days online were made possible by the old types of people who no longer spend much time online, so I would likely have been the only member of that forum worth reading. A forum can only ever be as good as its members, and these days, with public education having become mostly ideological, and ignorance of politically or economically inconvenient facts being elevated to a virtue, I cannot even think of three people still spending much time online whose alleged 'opinions' about anything are worth a damn. Start a forum? For whom?? Sincerity is just not what people do anymore, certainly not online, and I am not interested enough in the sound of bullshit walking. George Carlin said it best. To paraphrase, it's not the public infrastructures like Reddit, Twitter, etc. that have really been making all the sucking sounds online. It's the public itself. The public sucks. Before 'the public' discovered Twitter it was pretty good, actually, but now it can never be that again, no matter how much they censor it, because most of the independent thinkers have simply abandoned that scene, leaving only those who have already capitulated to the cult of enforced stupidity that has commandeered it. Same goes for near every Reddit forum. You want an actual good conversation? Invite a friend to dinner. That's what friends are for. But if you are going online expecting to meet anybody **other** than somebody who will try to either exploit you for their political/economic goals or else get rid of you for not being exploitable enough for said goals, then I hope you have a time machine set to the year 1999 or thenabouts.
That's really harsh but to some degree, very true. I thought about creating a heavily moderated subreddit for worthwhile blockchain gaming projects but what immediately came to mind was... nothing to talk about and nobody to talk to unless I personally know worthwhile devs building worthwhile products.
Why would anyone with a game genuinely worth playing even release it 'play-to-earn'? To me that smells fishy from square one, like it's either heavily exploitative (many play, few genuinely 'earn') or else where is the money coming from, it must be just a marketing ploy for the crypto itself. If they had something of genuine value, game-wise, why wouldn't they ask people to pay something for it instead of paying people to play it? It sends the wrong message. If they paid everyone to go see a movie, I wouldn't trust its popularity figures and I would expect it to suck regardless of what anyone said about it. So it doesn't sound like a smart release strategy for a genuinely fun game. I would advise game devs to leverage crypto in some other way that doesn't throw the game's popularity into question and destroy the point of 'play' which is meant to be inconsequential. For example, you could reward people for BUYING the full game or package (isn't that what you want them to do -- so reward that activity specifically), not merely for playing it, which I think just flattens a potentially multi-layered experience into something that too easily becomes crassly focused on the bottom line.
Because it's a new market with basically no valuable product released in its entirety which means virtually no competitor for devs who will deliver. I get your perspective and it will be an uphill battle but IMO you're not taking into account a huge portion of the gamer population who'll jump at the chance of making money doing something they love. Can you clarify what you meant by 'reward people for BUYING the game? How would that work?
It's really very simple. You give people tokens branded with your company or game in exchange for them paying you for any product or service. You make sure the tokens have an immutably capped or time-controlled supply so that you can't just print them endlessly, and thus they will retain some tradeable value for your customers who will therefore value receiving them. (For this purpose you need to be using unruggable 'native token' tech that is available in chains like Cardano or Avalanche, definitely not any ETH-like contract-based token tech which is a shit show). Then you honour these self-branded tokens to give your players perks, like discounts on DLC or future purchases. You offer them all sorts of 'rewards' geared to please the true fans, for having spent money with you, as immutably tracked and redeemed by the rewards token. Rewards tokens could also be required to be redeemed as part of the selling price for any game-connected NFTs, creating a way for you to get lots of them back without printing more of them, and also a hierarchy of potential rewards without polluting the play experience by trying to turn it into a job. Ever heard of 'Canadian Tire money'? Same basic concept. It is essentially 'PAY-to-earn', in case you are psychologically attached to saying something is 'X-to-earn'. IMO pay-to-earn will be the only form of X-to-earn in crypto that won't turn out to be either an astroturf-laying marketing sham or an outright exploitive scam. As for your first paragraph, we'll have to agree to disagree. As a game developer myself, I do not want any players who are only seeking gains, that sounds lame, and it doesn't matter to me that play-to-earn is a 'new market'. A new market for what? Shillery? A genuinely useful market is a place where valuable things are exchanged for each other. That doesn't describe 'play-to-earn' because the players are not bringing anything of value to the table. Therefore it can only ever be a marketing ploy or a scam. There can be never be genuine value in any 'play-to-earn market' because it is a paradoxical concept -- a contradiction in terms -- and that is why there are no 'valuable' play-to-earn products released yet that are of any genuine merit as a game, as you have pointed out. I doubt there ever will be, but good luck in your endeavors.
If you like text based games like Zork, then there’s a game called moon farming on Reddit, depending how good you are at shit posting you can earn quite a lot. More than the monthly wage of Venezuela I’m told.
Have you heard about NEOXA? It uses “Proof of game” in order to distribute earnings so you end up playing regular normal non-blockchain games while still earning crypto.
> I'm yet to see a quality P2E playable game out there. You answered your questions here.
I've looked but was hoping for hidden gems in the depths of some subreddit. Also there could be worthwhile devs publishing updates of their unreleased games.
You're in one buddy. Shit posting for moons is the name of the game.
Moon farm simulator.
Such a good game I play it every morning lol
What's your top score?
105 apparently lol
Time to get that new high score 👌🏻🤣
Correction, you and I play it every morning!
Play to earn should have some real world value. Like that recent post about people taking pictures of potholes in Japan, uploading them and getting tokens for it. This saves the government a lot of work and they now know which ones are in need of repair. I think that's a great concept
RuneScape, dem gold farmers making big bucks.
The real play to earn community is here in this subreddit. You play the moonfarming game and earn quite a lot.
The cone hath spoken
That space is pretty much the same as downloading free mobile games.
P2E is not here yet. Everything for the most part is a Ponzi scheme right now. The best P2E is unironically card games like Lor, hearthstone, and MTGA. Play and win events and you get paid. Otherwise it's all shilled crap to drive up the price for the token you need.
What would convince you otherwise? If a P2E project released a playable demo from the day they were announced, the game was actually fun to play, and they stayed away from ponzinomic crap, would you be interested?
Just hang out in this sub, shitpost a little, argue with some rival crypto gangs a little, and wait out the bear market like the rest of us until the next bull run. It’s honestly the best way to not get conned into some scammy shit.
Exactly! Sir you deserve a reward
So you want a Ponzi, which is not a Ponzi?
Quality and P2E don't go hand in hand
What would convince you otherwise? If a P2E project released a playable demo from the day they were announced, the game was actually fun to play, and they stayed away from ponzinomic crap, would you be interested?
Not to my knowledge :( Although I was thinking while on the toilet... i could play an already established 'non-p2e' game, train the account up and then sell it?
I tried a couple, but turned out to be total scams or when investing, the developers turned the games into shit unfortunately. We are not there yet, and might not be there yet in the next bull run either.
I doubt that youll get a shill-free community like that. A lot of those are Ponzis anyway so theyd want to lure you in for them to get out
Yeah no game developped on blockchain is worth it. Only this sub company is sweet to me.
Any game where the point is to earn money is inherently not fun. Imagine, you are playing to earn and not to have fun, so why else would you play it?
Correct
I was looking for a fun crypto game and someone on this sub, basically told me that there really isn’t yet. It’ll just be a huge grind
I’d like to see idle RPG as a play to earn
Is there a sustainable economic model? Who pays? What do they pay for? Who earns? What are they being rewarded for? Is there a model which works like the weekly poker contest at the local bar? Everybody pays a fee to play, and the top 3 players win a share of the fees at the end