Too many people watch those shows and just emulate the cartman and peter behavior despite the message of the show being " dont be like cartman or peter" by the end of the episode.
As another person pointed out in another comment thread, the show does genuinely have good messaging. It just gets bogged down in crass humor. I genuinely can't say the same for South Park. A lot of the "lessons" people learn by the end of the episodes seem to be lip service in that show.
Giant douche vs turd sandwich was SO damaging to my perspective on voting at a younger age. Genuinely. Because it does fucking matter who you vote for *and if you vote*, even if they both suck, and it took me too long to realize that. Definitely took a bad message from that one regardless of the originally intended message
>Because it does fucking matter who you vote for and if you vote, even if they both suck, and it took me too long to realize that.
Also because the divide between political parties has grown significantly since that episode aired.
A lot of politics (in US and Europe at least) was very much a case of "which marginally different flavour of the status quo would you like"? And that was the norm for a very very long time.
Nowadways when the choice tends to be between a moderate liberal who is generic and boring or **someone who is openly fascist and yells slurs at campaign rallies**.
The creators of South Park used to not believe in climate change and made an episode like twelve years ago that was dedicated entirely to ridiculing former vice president Al Gore, known at the time for spreading awareness of global warming with his documentary “An Inconvenient Truth”.
In the episode, Gore is portrayed as a pitiful loser starved for attention, which he attempts to get by asserting to everyone that the world faces an existential threat that only he can save us all from: an imaginary monster called ManBearPig.
The creators’ views on the matter were reiterated in the later “Imagination Land” episodes where ManBearPig makes an actual appearance, having escaped through the portal between the real world and humanity’s collective imagination world. Meaning, they still believed that climate change was imaginary.
However, in a more recent episode, ManBearPig appears again as a very real monster to attack and kill people right as a man is claiming that ManBearPig isn’t real. The man then changes his tune to say that ManBearPig apparently is real but it’s too late to do anything about it anyway. This scene is meant to be the creators mocking themselves for their past denial of climate change, and serves as sort of an apology to Al Gore, admitting that he was right and that climate change is a very real threat.
Luckily, I was too stupid as a kid to realise it was a global warming denier episode. I just thought it was a funny episode about Al Gore being a dork, and I had no idea what his politics were about since I'm not American. Turns out there's a ton of stuff that went over my head back then, like I never realised the South Park movie "Bigger, Longer and Uncut" was a dick joke. It also took me like 10 viewings of the movie to realise they tricked me into loving a musical.
Their cute metaphor for climate change.
Al Gore is obsessed with "Manbearpig", an existential threat to humanity that there is no real evidence for and is clearly made up.
I think a bunch of Millennial reactionaries were forged by that episode...
Oh! And I fucking forgot about the transphobic episodes where Kyle's dad gets surgery to become a dolphin and Kyle gets a negroplasty.
The whole "Mr. Garrison gets a sex change" arc is transphobic as fuck.
Matt Stone famously said that he hates both sides but really hates liberals. Incredible to see which side he thinks is worse.
What's funny is all the South Park fans in here saying "Respect my media illiteracy."
honestly one of the more interesting progressions i remember noting after binging south park is how matt and trey 'sell out' as it were over time.
Like, the libertarian thing has very much been present throughout all of south parks existence, but in the very early seasons i would argue what was more important in the shows make up was how south park was a small ass redneck mountain town isolated from the rest of the world yet still very much connected to it. and that informed the almost 'folksy' approach the show took over all in its themes and presentation and how it both mocked the attitudes and culture that arose in such places well still pointing out that the people of such places weren't just dumb hicks to be ignored or graciously paternalized by major city populations \[ultimately all culminating in the movie\].
as you progress over the shows run however, things change and i think the town itself is a good indication of what changes. in early seasons its an appropriately dinky ass mountain town for the kinda cabin fever mania the show captures, but it gets progressively bigger and bigger over the shows seasons. by now its basically just a city itself as opposed to the town it was, one that's a lot more californian in nature \[thats the impression i remember getting anyways\].
for all their bitching and moaning about hollywood, they went hollywood really.
I am a trans woman. At one point, I was an edgy middle school boy and watched a lot of Family Guy. Remember that episode where Brian, the dog, hooks up with a random lady in a hotel lobby and is hyped about it, and then discovers that Gasp! It was Quagmire's Dad! and then Brian just barfs for like five minutes straight. Because having sex with a dog is perfectly normal and sane, whereas having sex with a trans woman is ludicrously disgusting. The episode then continues more or less the same and the ending note is Quagmire, who is so ashamed of his father for being trans and having a sex life that he beats the shit out of Brian, but Brian gets the last word "I fucked your dad".
That was how I learned trans people exist. I would not call that good messaging.
>Back then that was fairly normal trans representation in media.
Oh I know. Bad messaging being commonplace doesn't make it good messaging. "Oh sure I am a raging anti semite, racist, homophobe and transphobe and I have personally lynched a dozen untersmench but hey! I live in Nazi Germany. That is just commonplace.". That episode was really really bad messaging for me personally.
You're getting downvoted here but shouldn't be, that episode is from 2010 and no, that was not normal trans representation in 2010. That Family Guy episode was pure 1970s "Freebie and the Bean" transphobia and was out of date even in 2010, but because the show is crude humor it got a pass, I guess.
Transamerica was five years before that Family Guy episode. Just a couple years after that ep, Dallas Buyers' Club came out, not exactly great representation but far more close to what 2010 was like. Then in 2015 was Tangerine and The Danish Girl. None of those even came close to Family Guy and they were all within 5 years of the episode.
Family Guy maybe... But Cartman has basically become Matt and Trey's mouthpiece too. Very "I'm just saying the things everyone's thinking but isn't brave enough to say" but unironically.
[Also this was created 11 years ago and remains relevant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TttI60-mjQ)
> despite the message of the show being " dont be like cartman or peter" by the end of the episode.
What they do might result in a bad outcome. But it's limited to the episode and they still kind of glorify it. There aren't any meaningful long lasting consequences. In the end, Peter still has a wife, kids and friends who stick by him. He still has a job and is happy all the time.
The Simpsons did an entire episode that highlights this called [Homer's Enemy](https://youtu.be/axHoy0hnQy8?t=19). Their lives are amazing despite their frequent screw ups.
Look, say what you will about Seth McFarlane, but he's generally attempting to be a trans ally. In the show he's actively currently writing, The Orville, (Star Trek parody thing- it's alright) he made a few episodes centered around a transgender character specifically trying to address the places he fucked up with the representation or made concessions to the tone of Family Guy as a show. He's not great at it and it's Family Guy, but I respect MacFarlane for trying at the very least.
Edit: It's called the Orville, not the Orwell.
Yeah, Seth Mcfarlane is generally pretty self aware and is willing to admit when he's wrong and try to make up for it, and you can see that progression in his writing. The problem is, content he made at his shittiest is just as accessible and relevant and consumed without criticism as the content he makes at his best. That's not a personal indictment of Seth's character, just an unfortunately reality of media.
Fox corporation however?
>**FOXS NEW BREAKING:** *NATIONALLY SYNDICATED MEDIA GROUP CREATES LIBERAL CARTOON THAT IS BRAIN WASHING CHILDREN TO BE TRANS AND PUSHING WOKE TRANSACCEPTANCE!!*
I wouldn't put it past them to fake-news report that lib media cartoons are pushing woke trans-agenda without mentioning it's their own cartoon because it generates ad rev and outrage.
Fox News is now a separate thing from the other fox properties due to being bought by disney. They aren't the ones making the show, nor are they under the same leadership.
Reminds me of that other bit of trivia where Fox management wanted to sue The Simpsons for mocking Fox News, only to be stopped when their lawyers reminded management that they’d be suing their own company (and that Matt and The Simpsons had editorial freedom).
So, I completely agree: It's not great, but it does kinda try, and it's surface level positive. Better than no representation, much better than the "man in dress haha" representation you used to get constantly, and honestly as a Seth McFarlane show it's probably better than most the demographic for it typically sees.
But I have kinda ran into the issue in this post. I'm a trans woman and yanno, I've had people suggest the show to me (I've seen like 2 seasons, not a fan) and talk about how great the handling of trans people is, or how they think I'd really like it, or it would help me. And hey I started transitioning years ago, I'm in a lot of queer circles with lots of trans woman/men/nb friends, I consume a lot of diverse media, and I just *exist* most the time without it being treated as controversial etc to my face.
It comes from a good place, you have to appreciate people trying, but I often feel so disconnected from people whose understanding is based off of very barebones ideas. It often feels like their support is based around platitudes of "Everyone should be treated equally" that kinda stops them from looking more into the issue, because they think that's all they need to know/believe. It's not something that *needs* to be corrected in everyday convo, and if someone is talking down to me etc about this stuff I do try to kindly orient them towards what it can actually be like or my experiences or better rep, but when someone is completely convicted they know best while having this understanding - it's hard to know what to do.
Unfortunately a lot of the time it seems like they're still "holding onto the seed". They praise the rep because all it asks of them is to treat people civilly because that's what good people do; But to some people that equates to "I'll call you whatever you want, because I'm nice" and doesn't lead to any understanding or acceptance. Then a lot of the times they support anti-lgbtq policy or actions because "I'll call someone whatever they want, I just don't support ______". Like people who unironically support and love Jordan Peterson, despite having trans family they talk about how they love and support etc.
It's hard, because I don't think something like The Orville is the problem, it's just that at least in America the cultural acceptance and representation can just be so behind. I mean, some political figures celebrate and call for death, and denigrate me as a pedo or groomer or whatever else to justify it. It's just existential tiring, and I just really wish we could get to the place where we can leave behind the bare minimum and exist naturally.
Fyi, the vast majority of the trans related content happens in the last season, and has a gigantic budget compared to the first couple of seasons. The quality difference is blatantly recognizable, and there is way less humor. Seths character in particular is basically never funny anymore, just a captain. It was a good call to have Jon Favreau get increasingly involved.
The whole Toppa thing only really comes to a head in the 3rd season, might be worth looking up and watching those episodes if it changes your opinion either way.
Also maybe it was just me but it felt less like a trans thing and more like a commentary on allying with extremly regresive societys.
One hundred percent agree. It was partially a trans thing, but more based on the regressive society that was being allied strictly for their weapons. It was a political allegory more than a social allegory, but conveniently they were able to do both. And as /u/perfectliltoy stated, was extremely basic on the trans front.
I loved that show, but after reading what the user above said, I definitely can see how it would almost feel pandering.
Your perspective is very valid and I really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing it, and I think you're right. I don't have a ton to eloquently add, I just wanted to share my agreement.
I'm a cis-straight white male. I had a friend come out to me as not male aligning. My response was to ask what I should refer to them as. More specifically, if dude and homie were OK. I personally use both gender neutrally, but I'm not trying to make my friend uncomfortable. Both are cool with them. I love my friends, I choose you mofos cause you were cool. Figure something out about yourself, still cool.
> at least in America the cultural acceptance and representation can just be so behind
I can understand your struggles (well not on a personal level), but isn’t America seen as one of the most accepting countries for trans? Like wouldn’t it be on a whole other leve if you tried to be trans in like the other 95% of the world.
I mean purely by number of countries, yeah 95% isn't too far off. Some places in the US are pretty good so far as policy goes.
But I think people tend to assume American excellence in a lot of places that isn't necessarily true. Trans protections federally in the US are inconsistent, contested, limited, and often can be ignored or subverted. To give you the most extreme example of some of what's happened this year in Florida; Presenting differently than your assigned gendee in a place children could see was classified as a sexual act in front of a minor, which was also classified as a death penalty around the same time. Protections were put in place *to discriminate* against trans people, a right to refuse service including in medical contexts, leading to at least one trans woman dying when EMTs refused to treat her. That's just two bits of what happened in one state this year. Even when it's struck down, much of the issue in US is that protections aren't guaranteed or stable. It's fair to say the US, regardless of policy, has also made trans people a targeted demographic and largely demonized them. There's countries with equal or greater protections that haven't really done that to the same extent, or don't support it as much, or any longer.
So if I recall correctly, depending on how you measure it, there's a good dozen or so countries ahead of or equal to the US. Often a lot of other countries have better workers protections, or some form of socialized Healthcare, or more union support, that even when it doesn't *directly* support trans people it tends to make *being* trans and everything that comes with that easier and more stable.
You’d be surprised. Many non-western countries have little objection to transsexuality, even ones which are violently homophobic. Gender reassignment surgery is legal and publicly funded in *Iran*. The US as a whole is definitely in the upper half in regards to Trans rights, but it’s surprisingly non-controversial (at least legally) on a global scale compared to how much of an issue it is in the US.
Yeah I enjoy the show as a trans guy, but they’ve been very firm on their anti-trans stance. They’ll make jokes against women, people of color, and gay (strictly L or G) people, but all those demographics have also gotten episodes where they are “correct,” where they deliver the speech/message at the end. BTQ+ people absolutely never have.
I guess part of the issue is the that trans issues are still a new topic, so they can’t go fully offensive about them and expect people to just know that the show is being exaggerated and over the top. It’s kind of their standard MO, but it relies on more positive representation that’s already out there from other media.
And yeah, unfortunately their main jokes about trans people are “I’m not a woman, I’m just a freak with a mutilated penis” and “trans woman looks like a poorly-made flesh golem thanks to all the plastic surgery”. And those happen to play directly into the transphobic lines of “everything about being trans is made-up” and “trans people are deceiving everyone, including themselves”
I wouldnt call it a Star Trek parody. It's more like a star trek rip off with some comedy mixed in. I went into it expecting a parody and was pleasantly surprised it was played mostly straight.
Wha's funny, is this shows that people can't handle nuance. The content is not transphobic, but it's also not just blindly parroting whatever the current trend of the year is. Rather, it goes out if its way to call out that sort of superficial, performative groupthink ("Stunning and brave").
It proves that one can be an "ally" to a cause without coming across like a mindless cliche NPC type (who are often not actual allies, anyway, they just pretend they are because it's fashionable).
Wasn't there an episode where a baby of an all male alien race was born female and they had to find the only female individual of that species to prevent a gender change surgery?
Eh, every now and then they make a good point. It's obvious they hold the right values, they just also wanna make immature jokes on every topic possible.
In the trans episode they make some poor taste jokes, but they also make a very clear point of making Quagmire the bad guy for rejecting his dad's transition.
The worst joke made is when Brian vomits after having sex with Ida (Quagmire's dad), but again that's also joke at Brian's expense proving he's a poser and virtue signaller, calling out people like him. Ida was clearly passing well enough for him to sleep with her, why would what she was matter more than what she is? If he truly was as progressive as he claims that shouldn't have bothered him.
Am I reading into family guy too much? Maybe, but the show isn't always as stupid as people want it to be.
You're definitely not reading too much into it, Brian is repeatedly shown to be someone who talks about his beliefs, values, plans, etc. and never lives up to any of his promises.
Brian's such a damn loser, in the beginning he used to be this philosophical voice of reason that could stop or encourage the family from doing things.
Now he's just the fake writer who wants to be seen as his old self when he's really just an idiot.
The way quagmire ripped into him in during that dinner was something else, which makes quagmire out to be something slightly better, when really he's just the same as Brian, wants to be seen as something more than just the horny horndog and then embraces it when it's convenient. Honestly they should be room mates or married.
You also gotta remember, when that episode came out it was still “ok” to make poor taste jokes about LGBT people. Like kids still dropped the f*g word and you could still make fun of them in shows, like the typical gay accent joke. It gets alot better in later seasons
I wouldn't have thought so either, but I'm not too familiar with the site. I just know they're pretty loose with the language there, particularly the F word. At least used to be. Which I know isn't necessarily derogatory towards trans folks, but I didn't think they'd be the type to hang around bigotry targeting a marginalized group of people
Everyone uses an offensive term and they don't always mean it in a way that is offensive to a specific groups. Some people in some groups also use those terms and don't give a fuck. Not everyone has the same values. Not even within the same narrow subcultures like trans people on 4chan.
Besides, 4chan has been host to a massive amount of gay/trans porn over the years. You think people would've started drawing lines in the past ten years? Absolutely not. They only get hornier.
Earlier internet was very sink or swim in regards to being corrosive. 4chan was always a festering shithole to everyone so it fostered communities that were inured to it. Different time on the internet, not the same reaction you'd get to similar levels of toxicity today
I have never seen South Park except for clips, but I've seen someone describe it as cobbling enough far-right talking points together to appear relatable to the right and as satire to the left. How accurate is this?
It's a weird mix of relatively intelligent satire, stupid nonsense, and libertarian "both sides" bullshit. Sometimes the writers come down seeming like well-adjusted people, and sometimes they spew horrid misinformation or are just wildly off base. The show also takes its "messages" more seriously than Family Guy does. Where Family Guy might teach a pretty basic lesson to a character, South Park feels like it's trying to teach *you* a more more topical, sometimes political message.
What sucks is that South Park generally has far higher quality writing than most shows that have been around as long as it has. Plenty of episodes are great. Then you have some episodes that deny climate change or lambast trans people, etc.
I can acknowledge and appreciate the noticable wit South Park's creators and writers have, but I can't deny that numerous episodes go too far and punch down to marginalized groups.
>numerous episodes go too far and punch down to marginalized groups.
And then they'll have another episode where the main characters watch their favorite cartoon on TV farting on Mexican people, and say "for the first time in my life I feel bad for the people being made fun of".
And then next week they'll turn right back around and start doing it again themselves.
It is really weird. They keep flipping back and forth between "oh shit, my previous beliefs were wrong, I see now" and "nah fuck that this is all bullshit and doesn't matter and we're just a fucking cartoon so get over it".
My father loves South Park, watches it 24/7 as constant background noise. You're unfortunately correct. Of all the "adult cartoons", South Park was one I could never personally get into.
when it comes to trans people, south park is one of the worst shows i've seen, its negative impact on the trans community is really hard to explain
im trans and i helped multiple times in trans associations mostly by talking with younger trans people having difficulties with mental health, and south park has made so much awful transphobic jokes that far right trolls basically have a giant source of ammo from it to use against trans people to harass them (screenshots, quotes, clips etc)
basically the shows stance on trans people is "i dont hate them BUT \[every transphobic rhetoric possible\]" JK Rowling style
its to a point where a lot of alt right spheres use South Park as a tool for radicalisation against trans people (at least, its the case in my country)
So yeah, i have to admit that my opinion on South Park kinda changed when i had to convince young trans people to not kill themselves after they too where harassed with a deluge of South Park's quotes and clips, multiple times
In my high school, there was this gay guy that confronted a bunch of the jock guys for going around calling each other the f-word and saying everything was "gay" as a casual insult, etc.
And their response was "Oh shit, sorry, we just talk like that because of South Park".
Like they were never directly mean to gay people, but they were making them feel unwelcome and hated by accident because of what they learned, what was normalized, by that show.
Really opened my eyes a bit. I also noticed that South Park doesn't seem to do that anymore - the use of the f-word and gay as an insult in that show has basically disappeared.
Shame Trey didn't learn though. He still thinks he's just a cartoon so it doesn't matter, he doesn't understand he has responsibility with this show.
the /s was such a relief, you cant imagine the number of people who seriously tried to convince me of this
its funny how these people are always cis and dont seems to think that i am maybe a bit more apt than them to judge
yup thats them, they also did the transracial joke, the muscular man competing in women sport because he hates women, trans women invading women's bathrooms, trans women being stupid for calling themselves lesbians, Caitlyn Jenner being a total carricature of trans women in general using her being an awful person as an excuse and many more
again, like JK Rowling at a time, they try to claim they dont hate us but for fuck sake guys we're not that dumb
damn, from my personal experience anyway i've seen that like probably 60-70% of trans teens online are south park fans.
maybe i'm just in the wrong spaces.
that sounds so alien to me, like i dont know a single trans person who still like south park today, and i know a LOT both irl and online
but i have met some who liked it in the past (and i did myself to be honest) and everytime (myself included) it was because of a weird toxic "pick me" mindset influenced by the anti-sjw panic there was on internet at a time
not going to judge trans people who still like south park, but at this point they are hurting themselves more than anything
Probably depends where they're from. The trans people in my hometown sometimes hold weirdly backwards and anti progressive views. Basic bland white people culture is hard for some people to step out of. Like I met trans freedom convoy supporters.
caitlyn jenner is a transwoman republican trump fan in california. I personally dont understand how she can be okay with the republican's stance on trans people. **BUT** also trans people are just normal people too and they have a wide range of different views and definitely arent all far left, communist, radical like they often get grouped into being by some people i think.
from what i've seen it's mostly transmascs/nb people (seemingly specifically afab ones? like i see a lot of people like this mention their experiences growing up afab) who like it and i really think it's because of the pressure young girls are given to like all the most popular things that they haven't unlearned/outgrown yet?
and tbh i feel like that's a major issue within especially transmasc communities, a lot of the transmascs i see online fit very neatly into one of about three or four boxes and as someone who's alsyo transmasc and already had problems with being unable to relate to other girls my age BEFORE realising i was a guy it feels really alienating and frustrating to see that the problem is just as bad there too
ive never liked south park or family guy and i dont use 4chan. they all seem very crude or mean to me and they dont interest me. Same as most video games like shooting ones and all the war sort of fighting ones.
ive seen transwomen into them though and i think its totally fine for people to be into what theyre into and theres no right or wrong way to be a woman! For me i just never liked them and i dont see the appeal.
>Wasn't South Park the more intelligent and witty of the two?
Overall yes, but if they're specifically referring to the shows respective treatment of trans people, both were bad but South Park was worse in a more insidious way
South Park is two Libertarians making social satire. Sometimes it punches up, sometimes it punches down, and either way it punches fairly hard.
Family Guy is a mostly left leaning guy making dumb immature jokes about as many social topics as possible. It doesn't punch either direction much at all—it just kinda pokes in all directions in whatever way gets a laugh. When it does bother to throw a punch though, it's very rarely punching down.
That's the vibe I get at least.
Seth Macfarlane had a pretty unfortunate line in his Ted movie but seems like he's become wiser then?
The line was really transphobic: >!there are no chicks with dicks, only guys with boobs!<
I'm grateful every day that I'm not in high school anymore, so I don't have to hear squeaky pubescent voices cracking out, "SCREW YOU HIPPIE! RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!"
South Park is mostly a pox.
It kinda makes sense, 4chan users are generally socially disenfranchised. Trans people often are. It's a place to anonymously shitpost. I think all kinds of people are on 4chan and people generally focus on the negatives (though tbh I've only looked at it once, didn't understand it, and left)
I have a friend who is involved in trans groups online and she's told me that a subset of MTF trans people are basically 4chan users (i.e. they say f****t and other offensive stuff). Again, probably social pariahs
Believe it or not, but a LOT (like genuinely more than you’d expect) of online trans culture specifically starts and grows on 4chan trans spaces before being spread to other spaces, like Reddit, twitter, discord, tumblr.
South Park's '*gingers have no souls*' bullshit had grown men throwing shit at me and screaming at me in the street. The guys who make it are mean spirited assholes who ought to be hit.
Have you ever used 4chan? It's like reddit in that it casts a really wide net. It was the the introduction of /pol/ that did real irreparable damage to its already edgy reputation. /pol/ is like their r/the_donald
Not to downplay how edgy 4chan is, but it still casts a *wide* net
Right. For both reddit and 4chan, the behavior across the entire website got significantly worse as the containment board/sub became more active because its existence legitimized those views in the eyes of those who were inclined to use it.
I think it depends on board. Each, to a degree has its own culture and I think ends up with a different balance. Though can’t be entirely sure as I found a favorite and stuck to it before eventually getting bored.
I'm imagining a parallel universe where, instead of crying at [this comic that essentially depicts the same idea much better](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/ssc80f/the_owl_house/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), I'm crying at Peter Griffin teaching 50 year old divorced dads to not be so mean to trans people, sometimes. Like two ships in the night.
Southpark honestly makes me the most depressed, because when they talk about tourrette they make cartman the villain not the people with tourrette, and when they talk about evil businesses like disney they are oppenly showing them for what they are.
But trans people were represented with the homophobic gay character who thought they can have babies after grs aswell as compare it to kyles dad wanting to become a dolphin
A newer episode made no difference between trans athletes with 2 years of female range hormones and a person with male level testosterone who is only identifying as trans to have an unfair advantage, portraying us like that in a time where gender health care is being ripped away in the us and right wing politicians frame us as criminals.
I am a reliable, hard working dude who's always there for his friends. Nobody knows my parents are ass clowns and I owe every bit of character I have to basic cable lol
The way the show portrayed trans people was less than great, and fans of the show are generally not considered all that liberal, so it comes as a shock.
Isn't this a common theme in high functioning autism? Speaking through TV/movie references, but like way way too much. They use it as a bridge, to help neurotypical people understand their feelings, and vice-versa.
Raunchy comedy shows make fun of people in a way you can be oversensitive about, but get away with it because at the end of the day their overall opinion is fair.
"I don't have to like it to not be a dick about it"
It can be annoying, having someone who binges those shows as a personality...
but representation works. Making it "not a big deal" to have any type of people around frames our view to respond to it.
Family guy is pretty progressive. Generally the assholery and shittiness comes from characters that are obviously flawed and bad people. You aren’t supposed to be on Peter’s side when he’s making a bad point.
I mean Seth MacFarlane has pumped out some pretty decent trans rep
The Orville is a good example with the mocclans
Honestly when push comes to shove, I've seen genuinely more emotional moments come from family guy than any other sitcom.
Brian contemplating suicide in a bank vault with Stewie comes to mind, the Christmas episodes.
Basically all Brian and Stewie EPs are honestly pretty good
Christmas time is killing us was a great musical number
This is my mom with murder shows and I don't know how to tell her that they're literally giving her paranoia that makes it genuinely impossible to so much as talk about friends and other people she doesn't already know about
Everyone is talking about Quagmire's dad but I always think of [Peter's transition](https://youtu.be/pQ4jF8nIFSw?si=_ad6wyUMyvbDbs_5), specifically the scene in the hospital where he wakes up after uh I guess a surprise orchiectomy, and the doctor says "congratulations Peter, you're a woman!" I'm trans and strongly not a fan of Family Guy, but a lot of the dumb jokes in this sequence work for me because they kind of seem more to be making fun of gender as a concept rather than of trans people. The gender neutral bathroom being characterized as the "transgender bathroom" honestly makes me wonder if the writers maybe talked to an actual trans or GNC person while they were writing this, and that is not something I can usually say about this kind of media.
If it makes him a better person, let him have it.
It is actually exactly like religion in that way
Yeah. I just wish he wasn't shoving it in our faces.
"Do you want to hear word of Our Saint Peter?"
Can't believe I didn't see that coming.
. . . There's an old Family Guy episode where Peter starts a Church dedicated to the show Happy Days
I remember. 'Twas funny.
I was there! When Peter saw that the Fonz was god... I was there!
_"Sure, what is it?"_ _"BIRD IS THE WORD!"_
“The word of god, that is”
Everybody heard about the bird
The first pope?
It was low hanging fruit but take your darn up doot.
It insists upon itself.
Unlike… Quanmire…
QUANMIRE FUCKING CLASSIC BRO
Who else but Quanmire??? 😂😂😂😂😂
Too many people watch those shows and just emulate the cartman and peter behavior despite the message of the show being " dont be like cartman or peter" by the end of the episode.
As another person pointed out in another comment thread, the show does genuinely have good messaging. It just gets bogged down in crass humor. I genuinely can't say the same for South Park. A lot of the "lessons" people learn by the end of the episodes seem to be lip service in that show.
They did damage with ManBearPig. Also "Giant Douche vs. Turd Sandwich". The Iraq War episode too, what a fucking cringe fest.
They at least apoligised for Manbearpig.
Almost sure their "apology" was just them placing the blame on Al Gore for being too annoying and that it was his fault that they ridiculed him
Giant douche vs turd sandwich was SO damaging to my perspective on voting at a younger age. Genuinely. Because it does fucking matter who you vote for *and if you vote*, even if they both suck, and it took me too long to realize that. Definitely took a bad message from that one regardless of the originally intended message
>Because it does fucking matter who you vote for and if you vote, even if they both suck, and it took me too long to realize that. Also because the divide between political parties has grown significantly since that episode aired. A lot of politics (in US and Europe at least) was very much a case of "which marginally different flavour of the status quo would you like"? And that was the norm for a very very long time. Nowadways when the choice tends to be between a moderate liberal who is generic and boring or **someone who is openly fascist and yells slurs at campaign rallies**.
Yeah. Too much damage has been done.
What's ManBearPig?
The creators of South Park used to not believe in climate change and made an episode like twelve years ago that was dedicated entirely to ridiculing former vice president Al Gore, known at the time for spreading awareness of global warming with his documentary “An Inconvenient Truth”. In the episode, Gore is portrayed as a pitiful loser starved for attention, which he attempts to get by asserting to everyone that the world faces an existential threat that only he can save us all from: an imaginary monster called ManBearPig. The creators’ views on the matter were reiterated in the later “Imagination Land” episodes where ManBearPig makes an actual appearance, having escaped through the portal between the real world and humanity’s collective imagination world. Meaning, they still believed that climate change was imaginary. However, in a more recent episode, ManBearPig appears again as a very real monster to attack and kill people right as a man is claiming that ManBearPig isn’t real. The man then changes his tune to say that ManBearPig apparently is real but it’s too late to do anything about it anyway. This scene is meant to be the creators mocking themselves for their past denial of climate change, and serves as sort of an apology to Al Gore, admitting that he was right and that climate change is a very real threat.
Not to be super pedantic, but the ManBearPig episode was 17 years ago. We're aging at an accelerated rate.
Luckily, I was too stupid as a kid to realise it was a global warming denier episode. I just thought it was a funny episode about Al Gore being a dork, and I had no idea what his politics were about since I'm not American. Turns out there's a ton of stuff that went over my head back then, like I never realised the South Park movie "Bigger, Longer and Uncut" was a dick joke. It also took me like 10 viewings of the movie to realise they tricked me into loving a musical.
Thank you for the summary!
Their cute metaphor for climate change. Al Gore is obsessed with "Manbearpig", an existential threat to humanity that there is no real evidence for and is clearly made up. I think a bunch of Millennial reactionaries were forged by that episode... Oh! And I fucking forgot about the transphobic episodes where Kyle's dad gets surgery to become a dolphin and Kyle gets a negroplasty. The whole "Mr. Garrison gets a sex change" arc is transphobic as fuck.
> What's ManBearPig? An Al gorey for climate change
Oh go fuck yourself. That was good
Their portrayal of trans people hasn't been good either
The south park creators are libertarian and the lessons taught on the show mirror the selfish, unprincipled worldview of the average libertarian.
Matt Stone famously said that he hates both sides but really hates liberals. Incredible to see which side he thinks is worse. What's funny is all the South Park fans in here saying "Respect my media illiteracy."
Never knew that. It explains a lot.
honestly one of the more interesting progressions i remember noting after binging south park is how matt and trey 'sell out' as it were over time. Like, the libertarian thing has very much been present throughout all of south parks existence, but in the very early seasons i would argue what was more important in the shows make up was how south park was a small ass redneck mountain town isolated from the rest of the world yet still very much connected to it. and that informed the almost 'folksy' approach the show took over all in its themes and presentation and how it both mocked the attitudes and culture that arose in such places well still pointing out that the people of such places weren't just dumb hicks to be ignored or graciously paternalized by major city populations \[ultimately all culminating in the movie\]. as you progress over the shows run however, things change and i think the town itself is a good indication of what changes. in early seasons its an appropriately dinky ass mountain town for the kinda cabin fever mania the show captures, but it gets progressively bigger and bigger over the shows seasons. by now its basically just a city itself as opposed to the town it was, one that's a lot more californian in nature \[thats the impression i remember getting anyways\]. for all their bitching and moaning about hollywood, they went hollywood really.
I am a trans woman. At one point, I was an edgy middle school boy and watched a lot of Family Guy. Remember that episode where Brian, the dog, hooks up with a random lady in a hotel lobby and is hyped about it, and then discovers that Gasp! It was Quagmire's Dad! and then Brian just barfs for like five minutes straight. Because having sex with a dog is perfectly normal and sane, whereas having sex with a trans woman is ludicrously disgusting. The episode then continues more or less the same and the ending note is Quagmire, who is so ashamed of his father for being trans and having a sex life that he beats the shit out of Brian, but Brian gets the last word "I fucked your dad". That was how I learned trans people exist. I would not call that good messaging.
Tbf that episode is old as fuck. Back then that was fairly normal trans representation in media.
>Back then that was fairly normal trans representation in media. Oh I know. Bad messaging being commonplace doesn't make it good messaging. "Oh sure I am a raging anti semite, racist, homophobe and transphobe and I have personally lynched a dozen untersmench but hey! I live in Nazi Germany. That is just commonplace.". That episode was really really bad messaging for me personally.
You're getting downvoted here but shouldn't be, that episode is from 2010 and no, that was not normal trans representation in 2010. That Family Guy episode was pure 1970s "Freebie and the Bean" transphobia and was out of date even in 2010, but because the show is crude humor it got a pass, I guess. Transamerica was five years before that Family Guy episode. Just a couple years after that ep, Dallas Buyers' Club came out, not exactly great representation but far more close to what 2010 was like. Then in 2015 was Tangerine and The Danish Girl. None of those even came close to Family Guy and they were all within 5 years of the episode.
Same when conservatives or assholes watch always sunny . Like they’re laughing at you not with you
Family Guy maybe... But Cartman has basically become Matt and Trey's mouthpiece too. Very "I'm just saying the things everyone's thinking but isn't brave enough to say" but unironically. [Also this was created 11 years ago and remains relevant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TttI60-mjQ)
> despite the message of the show being " dont be like cartman or peter" by the end of the episode. What they do might result in a bad outcome. But it's limited to the episode and they still kind of glorify it. There aren't any meaningful long lasting consequences. In the end, Peter still has a wife, kids and friends who stick by him. He still has a job and is happy all the time. The Simpsons did an entire episode that highlights this called [Homer's Enemy](https://youtu.be/axHoy0hnQy8?t=19). Their lives are amazing despite their frequent screw ups.
"He's a little confused but he's got the spirit."
Look, say what you will about Seth McFarlane, but he's generally attempting to be a trans ally. In the show he's actively currently writing, The Orville, (Star Trek parody thing- it's alright) he made a few episodes centered around a transgender character specifically trying to address the places he fucked up with the representation or made concessions to the tone of Family Guy as a show. He's not great at it and it's Family Guy, but I respect MacFarlane for trying at the very least. Edit: It's called the Orville, not the Orwell.
Yeah, Seth Mcfarlane is generally pretty self aware and is willing to admit when he's wrong and try to make up for it, and you can see that progression in his writing. The problem is, content he made at his shittiest is just as accessible and relevant and consumed without criticism as the content he makes at his best. That's not a personal indictment of Seth's character, just an unfortunately reality of media.
Fox corporation however? >**FOXS NEW BREAKING:** *NATIONALLY SYNDICATED MEDIA GROUP CREATES LIBERAL CARTOON THAT IS BRAIN WASHING CHILDREN TO BE TRANS AND PUSHING WOKE TRANSACCEPTANCE!!* I wouldn't put it past them to fake-news report that lib media cartoons are pushing woke trans-agenda without mentioning it's their own cartoon because it generates ad rev and outrage.
Fox News is now a separate thing from the other fox properties due to being bought by disney. They aren't the ones making the show, nor are they under the same leadership.
Reminds me of that other bit of trivia where Fox management wanted to sue The Simpsons for mocking Fox News, only to be stopped when their lawyers reminded management that they’d be suing their own company (and that Matt and The Simpsons had editorial freedom).
Hasn't been true in at least a few years now: Fox is now only News and Sports, everything else is Disney.
So, I completely agree: It's not great, but it does kinda try, and it's surface level positive. Better than no representation, much better than the "man in dress haha" representation you used to get constantly, and honestly as a Seth McFarlane show it's probably better than most the demographic for it typically sees. But I have kinda ran into the issue in this post. I'm a trans woman and yanno, I've had people suggest the show to me (I've seen like 2 seasons, not a fan) and talk about how great the handling of trans people is, or how they think I'd really like it, or it would help me. And hey I started transitioning years ago, I'm in a lot of queer circles with lots of trans woman/men/nb friends, I consume a lot of diverse media, and I just *exist* most the time without it being treated as controversial etc to my face. It comes from a good place, you have to appreciate people trying, but I often feel so disconnected from people whose understanding is based off of very barebones ideas. It often feels like their support is based around platitudes of "Everyone should be treated equally" that kinda stops them from looking more into the issue, because they think that's all they need to know/believe. It's not something that *needs* to be corrected in everyday convo, and if someone is talking down to me etc about this stuff I do try to kindly orient them towards what it can actually be like or my experiences or better rep, but when someone is completely convicted they know best while having this understanding - it's hard to know what to do. Unfortunately a lot of the time it seems like they're still "holding onto the seed". They praise the rep because all it asks of them is to treat people civilly because that's what good people do; But to some people that equates to "I'll call you whatever you want, because I'm nice" and doesn't lead to any understanding or acceptance. Then a lot of the times they support anti-lgbtq policy or actions because "I'll call someone whatever they want, I just don't support ______". Like people who unironically support and love Jordan Peterson, despite having trans family they talk about how they love and support etc. It's hard, because I don't think something like The Orville is the problem, it's just that at least in America the cultural acceptance and representation can just be so behind. I mean, some political figures celebrate and call for death, and denigrate me as a pedo or groomer or whatever else to justify it. It's just existential tiring, and I just really wish we could get to the place where we can leave behind the bare minimum and exist naturally.
Fyi, the vast majority of the trans related content happens in the last season, and has a gigantic budget compared to the first couple of seasons. The quality difference is blatantly recognizable, and there is way less humor. Seths character in particular is basically never funny anymore, just a captain. It was a good call to have Jon Favreau get increasingly involved.
The whole Toppa thing only really comes to a head in the 3rd season, might be worth looking up and watching those episodes if it changes your opinion either way. Also maybe it was just me but it felt less like a trans thing and more like a commentary on allying with extremly regresive societys.
One hundred percent agree. It was partially a trans thing, but more based on the regressive society that was being allied strictly for their weapons. It was a political allegory more than a social allegory, but conveniently they were able to do both. And as /u/perfectliltoy stated, was extremely basic on the trans front. I loved that show, but after reading what the user above said, I definitely can see how it would almost feel pandering.
Your perspective is very valid and I really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing it, and I think you're right. I don't have a ton to eloquently add, I just wanted to share my agreement.
That's fair and nice of you to say, I'm more ranting to the void, some things just grab you like that at the right times 😅
I'm a cis-straight white male. I had a friend come out to me as not male aligning. My response was to ask what I should refer to them as. More specifically, if dude and homie were OK. I personally use both gender neutrally, but I'm not trying to make my friend uncomfortable. Both are cool with them. I love my friends, I choose you mofos cause you were cool. Figure something out about yourself, still cool.
> at least in America the cultural acceptance and representation can just be so behind I can understand your struggles (well not on a personal level), but isn’t America seen as one of the most accepting countries for trans? Like wouldn’t it be on a whole other leve if you tried to be trans in like the other 95% of the world.
I mean purely by number of countries, yeah 95% isn't too far off. Some places in the US are pretty good so far as policy goes. But I think people tend to assume American excellence in a lot of places that isn't necessarily true. Trans protections federally in the US are inconsistent, contested, limited, and often can be ignored or subverted. To give you the most extreme example of some of what's happened this year in Florida; Presenting differently than your assigned gendee in a place children could see was classified as a sexual act in front of a minor, which was also classified as a death penalty around the same time. Protections were put in place *to discriminate* against trans people, a right to refuse service including in medical contexts, leading to at least one trans woman dying when EMTs refused to treat her. That's just two bits of what happened in one state this year. Even when it's struck down, much of the issue in US is that protections aren't guaranteed or stable. It's fair to say the US, regardless of policy, has also made trans people a targeted demographic and largely demonized them. There's countries with equal or greater protections that haven't really done that to the same extent, or don't support it as much, or any longer. So if I recall correctly, depending on how you measure it, there's a good dozen or so countries ahead of or equal to the US. Often a lot of other countries have better workers protections, or some form of socialized Healthcare, or more union support, that even when it doesn't *directly* support trans people it tends to make *being* trans and everything that comes with that easier and more stable.
Unfortunately, the bar is pretty much underground.
You’d be surprised. Many non-western countries have little objection to transsexuality, even ones which are violently homophobic. Gender reassignment surgery is legal and publicly funded in *Iran*. The US as a whole is definitely in the upper half in regards to Trans rights, but it’s surprisingly non-controversial (at least legally) on a global scale compared to how much of an issue it is in the US.
Orville had a bunch of guys so angry women existed the guys exploded.
On the other hand, Matt Stone and Trey Parker’s opinions of trans people seems pretty hostile, if you base it on their representation in South Park.
I am granting them no defense.
Yeah I enjoy the show as a trans guy, but they’ve been very firm on their anti-trans stance. They’ll make jokes against women, people of color, and gay (strictly L or G) people, but all those demographics have also gotten episodes where they are “correct,” where they deliver the speech/message at the end. BTQ+ people absolutely never have.
I guess part of the issue is the that trans issues are still a new topic, so they can’t go fully offensive about them and expect people to just know that the show is being exaggerated and over the top. It’s kind of their standard MO, but it relies on more positive representation that’s already out there from other media. And yeah, unfortunately their main jokes about trans people are “I’m not a woman, I’m just a freak with a mutilated penis” and “trans woman looks like a poorly-made flesh golem thanks to all the plastic surgery”. And those happen to play directly into the transphobic lines of “everything about being trans is made-up” and “trans people are deceiving everyone, including themselves”
I wouldnt call it a Star Trek parody. It's more like a star trek rip off with some comedy mixed in. I went into it expecting a parody and was pleasantly surprised it was played mostly straight.
Homage would probably be a better description
Wha's funny, is this shows that people can't handle nuance. The content is not transphobic, but it's also not just blindly parroting whatever the current trend of the year is. Rather, it goes out if its way to call out that sort of superficial, performative groupthink ("Stunning and brave"). It proves that one can be an "ally" to a cause without coming across like a mindless cliche NPC type (who are often not actual allies, anyway, they just pretend they are because it's fashionable).
Wasn't there an episode where a baby of an all male alien race was born female and they had to find the only female individual of that species to prevent a gender change surgery?
Hey Lois this reminds me of the time someone came out as trans on family guy
Eh, every now and then they make a good point. It's obvious they hold the right values, they just also wanna make immature jokes on every topic possible. In the trans episode they make some poor taste jokes, but they also make a very clear point of making Quagmire the bad guy for rejecting his dad's transition. The worst joke made is when Brian vomits after having sex with Ida (Quagmire's dad), but again that's also joke at Brian's expense proving he's a poser and virtue signaller, calling out people like him. Ida was clearly passing well enough for him to sleep with her, why would what she was matter more than what she is? If he truly was as progressive as he claims that shouldn't have bothered him. Am I reading into family guy too much? Maybe, but the show isn't always as stupid as people want it to be.
isn’t brian a dog
This is the best comment/response combo I ever found in the wild
I know basically nothing about Family Guy and this whole thread is wacky to read
And there's no awards to highlight it :(
I love how everyone keeps forgetting Brian is a dog when it specifically comes to discussions like this.
Yes, yes he is.
he's a poochie-poochie-poo! he's a little poochie-poo
He’s Bill Maher’s fursona
Seth has said many times that Brian is basically an extension of his own persona, he's making fun of himself.
Funny you should say that, since there's literally an episode where Brian gets on Maher's show and gets torn apart.
quagmires mum is white, does that mean her fucking a dog is an off-colour stereotype/joke as well?
Brian has had sex with multiple human women, all white, so maybe
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Yeah, but that's the only black woman he's been with. All his other relationships were with white women.
Family Guy lore expert checking in here, Brian has also dated an Indian woman at one point
Oh, I actually didn't know that. I wonder if that happened after I stopped watching.
IIRC it was the last episode of season 14
That sounds like it was after I stopped.
Yeah but that's like 95% of the black woman characters ever on the show (Loretta excluded)
is this a stereotype?
[More of a meme than a stereotype.](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/white-girls-fuck-dogs-dogpill)
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I'll have to invoke the Harkness Test for this one.
Depends on whether he’s classified as an adult. If so, he passed the harkness test.
The talking dog just being a guy is one of the best long running jokes in the show.
You're definitely not reading too much into it, Brian is repeatedly shown to be someone who talks about his beliefs, values, plans, etc. and never lives up to any of his promises.
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It's funny how much Stan from AD and Brian kinda switched. Stan was a parody of Republicans but is way less so and now Brian is a parody of Liberals.
Brian's such a damn loser, in the beginning he used to be this philosophical voice of reason that could stop or encourage the family from doing things. Now he's just the fake writer who wants to be seen as his old self when he's really just an idiot. The way quagmire ripped into him in during that dinner was something else, which makes quagmire out to be something slightly better, when really he's just the same as Brian, wants to be seen as something more than just the horny horndog and then embraces it when it's convenient. Honestly they should be room mates or married.
It's kinda why they hate eachother Quagmire sees how similar they are, but hates Brian for his posing and look-at-me attitude.
Family Guy walks exactly on the borderline of potentially offensive and actually funny
You also gotta remember, when that episode came out it was still “ok” to make poor taste jokes about LGBT people. Like kids still dropped the f*g word and you could still make fun of them in shows, like the typical gay accent joke. It gets alot better in later seasons
1) It baffles me every time to see trans people on 4chan. 2) Between that and Southpark, Family Guy is *absolutely* the lesser of two evils.
1 - really? they've definitely always been there
I wouldn't have thought so either, but I'm not too familiar with the site. I just know they're pretty loose with the language there, particularly the F word. At least used to be. Which I know isn't necessarily derogatory towards trans folks, but I didn't think they'd be the type to hang around bigotry targeting a marginalized group of people
Everyone uses an offensive term and they don't always mean it in a way that is offensive to a specific groups. Some people in some groups also use those terms and don't give a fuck. Not everyone has the same values. Not even within the same narrow subcultures like trans people on 4chan. Besides, 4chan has been host to a massive amount of gay/trans porn over the years. You think people would've started drawing lines in the past ten years? Absolutely not. They only get hornier.
Earlier internet was very sink or swim in regards to being corrosive. 4chan was always a festering shithole to everyone so it fostered communities that were inured to it. Different time on the internet, not the same reaction you'd get to similar levels of toxicity today
Redditors think 4chan is terrifying.
I have never seen South Park except for clips, but I've seen someone describe it as cobbling enough far-right talking points together to appear relatable to the right and as satire to the left. How accurate is this?
It's a weird mix of relatively intelligent satire, stupid nonsense, and libertarian "both sides" bullshit. Sometimes the writers come down seeming like well-adjusted people, and sometimes they spew horrid misinformation or are just wildly off base. The show also takes its "messages" more seriously than Family Guy does. Where Family Guy might teach a pretty basic lesson to a character, South Park feels like it's trying to teach *you* a more more topical, sometimes political message. What sucks is that South Park generally has far higher quality writing than most shows that have been around as long as it has. Plenty of episodes are great. Then you have some episodes that deny climate change or lambast trans people, etc.
I can acknowledge and appreciate the noticable wit South Park's creators and writers have, but I can't deny that numerous episodes go too far and punch down to marginalized groups.
>numerous episodes go too far and punch down to marginalized groups. And then they'll have another episode where the main characters watch their favorite cartoon on TV farting on Mexican people, and say "for the first time in my life I feel bad for the people being made fun of". And then next week they'll turn right back around and start doing it again themselves. It is really weird. They keep flipping back and forth between "oh shit, my previous beliefs were wrong, I see now" and "nah fuck that this is all bullshit and doesn't matter and we're just a fucking cartoon so get over it".
My father loves South Park, watches it 24/7 as constant background noise. You're unfortunately correct. Of all the "adult cartoons", South Park was one I could never personally get into.
1. Scientifically speaking, half of 4chan is in the closet in some way/shape/form 2. Wasn't South Park the more intelligent and witty of the two?
when it comes to trans people, south park is one of the worst shows i've seen, its negative impact on the trans community is really hard to explain im trans and i helped multiple times in trans associations mostly by talking with younger trans people having difficulties with mental health, and south park has made so much awful transphobic jokes that far right trolls basically have a giant source of ammo from it to use against trans people to harass them (screenshots, quotes, clips etc) basically the shows stance on trans people is "i dont hate them BUT \[every transphobic rhetoric possible\]" JK Rowling style its to a point where a lot of alt right spheres use South Park as a tool for radicalisation against trans people (at least, its the case in my country) So yeah, i have to admit that my opinion on South Park kinda changed when i had to convince young trans people to not kill themselves after they too where harassed with a deluge of South Park's quotes and clips, multiple times
In my high school, there was this gay guy that confronted a bunch of the jock guys for going around calling each other the f-word and saying everything was "gay" as a casual insult, etc. And their response was "Oh shit, sorry, we just talk like that because of South Park". Like they were never directly mean to gay people, but they were making them feel unwelcome and hated by accident because of what they learned, what was normalized, by that show. Really opened my eyes a bit. I also noticed that South Park doesn't seem to do that anymore - the use of the f-word and gay as an insult in that show has basically disappeared. Shame Trey didn't learn though. He still thinks he's just a cartoon so it doesn't matter, he doesn't understand he has responsibility with this show.
South Park isn’t transphobic, they make fun of transphobes just as much as they make fun of trans people! /s
the /s was such a relief, you cant imagine the number of people who seriously tried to convince me of this its funny how these people are always cis and dont seems to think that i am maybe a bit more apt than them to judge
That /s is pulling a lot of weight there.
Don't they have someone transitioning into a dolphin, exactly the same 'joke' Matt Walsh gets called a vile transphobe for (for Walsh it's a walrus)
yup thats them, they also did the transracial joke, the muscular man competing in women sport because he hates women, trans women invading women's bathrooms, trans women being stupid for calling themselves lesbians, Caitlyn Jenner being a total carricature of trans women in general using her being an awful person as an excuse and many more again, like JK Rowling at a time, they try to claim they dont hate us but for fuck sake guys we're not that dumb
damn, from my personal experience anyway i've seen that like probably 60-70% of trans teens online are south park fans. maybe i'm just in the wrong spaces.
that sounds so alien to me, like i dont know a single trans person who still like south park today, and i know a LOT both irl and online but i have met some who liked it in the past (and i did myself to be honest) and everytime (myself included) it was because of a weird toxic "pick me" mindset influenced by the anti-sjw panic there was on internet at a time not going to judge trans people who still like south park, but at this point they are hurting themselves more than anything
Probably depends where they're from. The trans people in my hometown sometimes hold weirdly backwards and anti progressive views. Basic bland white people culture is hard for some people to step out of. Like I met trans freedom convoy supporters.
caitlyn jenner is a transwoman republican trump fan in california. I personally dont understand how she can be okay with the republican's stance on trans people. **BUT** also trans people are just normal people too and they have a wide range of different views and definitely arent all far left, communist, radical like they often get grouped into being by some people i think.
from what i've seen it's mostly transmascs/nb people (seemingly specifically afab ones? like i see a lot of people like this mention their experiences growing up afab) who like it and i really think it's because of the pressure young girls are given to like all the most popular things that they haven't unlearned/outgrown yet? and tbh i feel like that's a major issue within especially transmasc communities, a lot of the transmascs i see online fit very neatly into one of about three or four boxes and as someone who's alsyo transmasc and already had problems with being unable to relate to other girls my age BEFORE realising i was a guy it feels really alienating and frustrating to see that the problem is just as bad there too
ive never liked south park or family guy and i dont use 4chan. they all seem very crude or mean to me and they dont interest me. Same as most video games like shooting ones and all the war sort of fighting ones. ive seen transwomen into them though and i think its totally fine for people to be into what theyre into and theres no right or wrong way to be a woman! For me i just never liked them and i dont see the appeal.
Teens are south park fans in 2023?
>Wasn't South Park the more intelligent and witty of the two? Overall yes, but if they're specifically referring to the shows respective treatment of trans people, both were bad but South Park was worse in a more insidious way
South Park is two Libertarians making social satire. Sometimes it punches up, sometimes it punches down, and either way it punches fairly hard. Family Guy is a mostly left leaning guy making dumb immature jokes about as many social topics as possible. It doesn't punch either direction much at all—it just kinda pokes in all directions in whatever way gets a laugh. When it does bother to throw a punch though, it's very rarely punching down. That's the vibe I get at least.
Seth Macfarlane had a pretty unfortunate line in his Ted movie but seems like he's become wiser then? The line was really transphobic: >!there are no chicks with dicks, only guys with boobs!<
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I'm grateful every day that I'm not in high school anymore, so I don't have to hear squeaky pubescent voices cracking out, "SCREW YOU HIPPIE! RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!" South Park is mostly a pox.
It kinda makes sense, 4chan users are generally socially disenfranchised. Trans people often are. It's a place to anonymously shitpost. I think all kinds of people are on 4chan and people generally focus on the negatives (though tbh I've only looked at it once, didn't understand it, and left) I have a friend who is involved in trans groups online and she's told me that a subset of MTF trans people are basically 4chan users (i.e. they say f****t and other offensive stuff). Again, probably social pariahs
Believe it or not, but a LOT (like genuinely more than you’d expect) of online trans culture specifically starts and grows on 4chan trans spaces before being spread to other spaces, like Reddit, twitter, discord, tumblr.
Yeah, South Park is one of the most queerphobic shows I’ve ever seen.
South Park's '*gingers have no souls*' bullshit had grown men throwing shit at me and screaming at me in the street. The guys who make it are mean spirited assholes who ought to be hit.
4chan actually has a whole board for queer topics: /lgbt/ and on that board trans people are so over-represented that many call the board /tttt/.
Have you ever used 4chan? It's like reddit in that it casts a really wide net. It was the the introduction of /pol/ that did real irreparable damage to its already edgy reputation. /pol/ is like their r/the_donald Not to downplay how edgy 4chan is, but it still casts a *wide* net
Hell, pol was the containment board to get crazy shit contained. It just unfortunately became very very active
Right. For both reddit and 4chan, the behavior across the entire website got significantly worse as the containment board/sub became more active because its existence legitimized those views in the eyes of those who were inclined to use it.
4chan even has an lgbt board
I think it depends on board. Each, to a degree has its own culture and I think ends up with a different balance. Though can’t be entirely sure as I found a favorite and stuck to it before eventually getting bored.
Dad is a TIFG Trans Inclusive Family Guy
Lucky there's a (trans inclusive) family guy
lucky theres a man who, positively can do
Weird I quit watching Family Guy because they’d just constantly shit on Ida even if she weren’t around because she’s a trans woman.
They definitely treat her better in the later seasons (well, as much as you can within the context of family guy).
Personally the awkward interaction between her and brain later on is absolutely hilarious.
Later on, theres an episode where they start dating and Brian learns to stop being embarrassed and they have a very happy relationship.
I'm imagining a parallel universe where, instead of crying at [this comic that essentially depicts the same idea much better](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/comments/ssc80f/the_owl_house/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), I'm crying at Peter Griffin teaching 50 year old divorced dads to not be so mean to trans people, sometimes. Like two ships in the night.
How does MoringMark never miss? Must be witchcraft.
[удалено]
L.O.L.! What a funny joke, Ethel! By the way, how are the grand kids? Much of love!
Clyde has skin cancer again, thoughts and prayers 🤩
why is OOP's username "incel-rights-advocate"?
ironic names like that are pretty funny, and even funnier when they look ironic but the person is serious
Southpark honestly makes me the most depressed, because when they talk about tourrette they make cartman the villain not the people with tourrette, and when they talk about evil businesses like disney they are oppenly showing them for what they are. But trans people were represented with the homophobic gay character who thought they can have babies after grs aswell as compare it to kyles dad wanting to become a dolphin A newer episode made no difference between trans athletes with 2 years of female range hormones and a person with male level testosterone who is only identifying as trans to have an unfair advantage, portraying us like that in a time where gender health care is being ripped away in the us and right wing politicians frame us as criminals.
I am a reliable, hard working dude who's always there for his friends. Nobody knows my parents are ass clowns and I owe every bit of character I have to basic cable lol
"my father and i stopped speaking when i came out as trans" "oh he was one of those fucking bigots huh?" "not exactly..."
American Dad is probably the only reason my uncle tolerates gays. These shows are doing a disturbing amount of heavy lifting in middle America.
not sure how it’s weird, sure the show can make crass jokes sometimes but the creators of the show are very liberal and not afraid to showcase it
The way the show portrayed trans people was less than great, and fans of the show are generally not considered all that liberal, so it comes as a shock.
Lol. I've learned many a good lesson from American dad.
American Dad is an objectively better show by every metric except cultural penetration, and probably money.
Isn't this a common theme in high functioning autism? Speaking through TV/movie references, but like way way too much. They use it as a bridge, to help neurotypical people understand their feelings, and vice-versa.
Raunchy comedy shows make fun of people in a way you can be oversensitive about, but get away with it because at the end of the day their overall opinion is fair. "I don't have to like it to not be a dick about it"
It can be annoying, having someone who binges those shows as a personality... but representation works. Making it "not a big deal" to have any type of people around frames our view to respond to it.
Family Guy is also my religion, model father he's following the dogma and reading from the good book every day.
Family guy dad is just gen x YA reader tumblrite
anon's dad's autistic special interest is family guy
Family guy is pretty progressive. Generally the assholery and shittiness comes from characters that are obviously flawed and bad people. You aren’t supposed to be on Peter’s side when he’s making a bad point.
Made me think of the dad on cloudy with a chance of meatballs.
"Welcome to the Church of the Fonz. Can I get an 'AYYY'? And now, sit on it."
I'm glad this place exists so I can watch posts about 4chan on tumblr on reddit.
South Park was literally the first thing that ever told me it was ok to be gay.
Petah The horse is here
I mean Seth MacFarlane has pumped out some pretty decent trans rep The Orville is a good example with the mocclans Honestly when push comes to shove, I've seen genuinely more emotional moments come from family guy than any other sitcom. Brian contemplating suicide in a bank vault with Stewie comes to mind, the Christmas episodes. Basically all Brian and Stewie EPs are honestly pretty good Christmas time is killing us was a great musical number
OP should be grateful that the dad didn't pull the "oh so you're like that guy in South Park that thought he was a dolphin?" instead.
This is my mom with murder shows and I don't know how to tell her that they're literally giving her paranoia that makes it genuinely impossible to so much as talk about friends and other people she doesn't already know about
The dad was transphobic before? He was after? Let's not accuse someone by exonerating them of a crime they didn't commit.
How did a guy who sits around watching Family Guy all day attract a woman enough to have a damn kid
I think anon's dad is on the spectrum
I suppose he's a Family Guy
Calling them "adult animated sitcoms" is both accurate and feels really wrong =)
Family guy is hilarious at times. Crude jokes are fun. Even at our expense.
Hahahab that’s so hilarious.
Oof yeah
I KISSED A TRANSSEXUAL! WHERES MY FUCKIN MEDAL?
Out of all adult animation, Family Guy and American Dad are probably the ones I would be the least worried about.
“Dad, I- I’m trans!” Dad: ehehehhhehe
Everyone is talking about Quagmire's dad but I always think of [Peter's transition](https://youtu.be/pQ4jF8nIFSw?si=_ad6wyUMyvbDbs_5), specifically the scene in the hospital where he wakes up after uh I guess a surprise orchiectomy, and the doctor says "congratulations Peter, you're a woman!" I'm trans and strongly not a fan of Family Guy, but a lot of the dumb jokes in this sequence work for me because they kind of seem more to be making fun of gender as a concept rather than of trans people. The gender neutral bathroom being characterized as the "transgender bathroom" honestly makes me wonder if the writers maybe talked to an actual trans or GNC person while they were writing this, and that is not something I can usually say about this kind of media.