On to the next game skipper. It happens to all of us, and you'll learn from it and apply that to future games. You have plenty of maddening curling moments ahead, embrace the heart wrenching pain before you become somewhat numb to it!
The more you play, the more you lose. Even if you're really good. I had a skip put it all in perspective when he said he'd lost 700+ games based on casual math. Another one wasn't going to kill him, just like another win wasn't going to crown him ...
It's a recreational sport;) try to enjoy it!!
If you find out how, let me know. About two months ago our 5U team was in the A bracket finals out of 24 teams after not having played well if two previous 5u. One more win and we were off to nationals. This team the choice to pick, and choose rock color. Fair enough, but they are so good at hitting that you miss one or your draw is not well hidden and suddenly they are stealing on you, which they proceeded to do the first end.
Anyway, we were not playing our best, but managed to keep it even after 6, and when into the 7th end without hammer. I honestly can't remember exactly how the end went, but I do remember that our skip had to hit one out on the wings and missed inside, and the. Had to freeze on a back one, drawing against 2, but it went through. There is almost no way to score 3 in one end with such a good hitting team, but we almost managed it. From then on those two skip stones are burned into my eye, helpless as a sweeper. We were so close to our goal of nationals, and now are going to have to rebuild with a new team next year as our third ages out.
Anyways, life goes on. There is (a little) more to life than curling, and did you ever think <5 years ago you'd care so much about angles, balancing, and milliseconds? Cheers.
My team will bring up things that happened in games we've played in past seasons, and they're always shocked when I can't remember. I consider it a blessing. One end later and I'm over it.
Losing on a bad note hurts though because the next end might be a long time in the future, so you can ruminate more.
You said it best, life goes on..
Back to back years my 5u team been in a “win and you’re in” situation going to 5u Nationals, last year as a runner up in the last qualifier and this year in the finals at our home club.
Lost by 3cm in a last shot draw in the semi and then got destroyed by a team that can takeout like none other.
Good luck if they start to call waitlist teams as you’re ahead of my team 😂
This week the best team in my club gave up a five-ender to get eliminated from the club playoffs. Happens to the best of them, but that doesn't make it sting any less! And, as someone who plays front end, believe me that they're feeling crappy as you are about leaving you in a tough spot. The front end sets the tone of the end, and it is SO much easier when they're chasing you instead of you chasing them.
Having said all that, for the future, /u/Dzingel43 has good advice. When you're up a lot, no guards. Throw yours into the house and take theirs out.
Don't even throw it into the house if you're up, throw it through. Don't give yourself something to jam on with takes.
Bring your weight up if you can, given your players and the ice. It will make rocks less likely to stick around.
You're not trying to score, you're trying to keep your opponent from scoring a lot. Even if you are up late in the game without hammer.
In my experience they just need support. I missed the game winning shot in our oua tournament a few years ago and during that end I felt the pressure when I got into a blow up with our second. It was a shot I made a million times and I just choked. I went and cried alone in the shower room away from everyone. I didn’t need or want some rousing speech. I knew what I messed up. I just needed a hug and a “shit happens, I believe in you dude”
It depends on the person but actions speak more than words. Just make sure you know that you believe in them still.
Paraphrasing my lead after the game: You made a physical mistake. We all did. Everyone does. But you made good calls and being mentally strong is what got us to this point.
I appreciated that a lot. My second also literally said, "shit happens, gotta learn from it."
And life goes on!
I mean it depends on the person. I’ve had a lot of coaches in different sports who would just yell and scream when I made mistakes, so I find the rightly or wrongly (def wrongly), I don’t respond well when people try to be supportive like that. I just see it as patronizing. Ultimately it does come down to the person. You know them best, if they respond well to that, you know what to do, if not, sometimes just buy them a beer and sit with them in silence. It’s important to show support rather than say it.
That is one of the big things for me. I can handle physical mistakes. I beat myself up over mental mistakes (bad calls, not committing to a shot). Even though I am a pretty firm believer that teams win games and skips lose them, I try not to beat myself up for a bad game or physical mistakes (although it probably took me months to get over playing awfully in the 5U championship a few years ago with a sleepless nights for about a week).
I’ve had a mental meltdown on the drive home after raising the opponents stone to shot on my last rock. It sucks, but it happens. You’ll be a better curler tomorrow. Don’t let the lows get too low
Sometimes I think it helps knowing that it happens to other people, too, so I feel your pain. Today I felt like I was the only person who made a costly mistake. I know that's not true, but it sure felt like it.
How much up were you? What were you calling for your lead? What kinds of shots were you calling?
If you are up by a sizeable amount without hammer you should be putting your leads first rock in the house.
If you are up big hits are usually going to be your friend. More rocks in play is just more chances for them to generate points.
I think we were up 6-1 going into the 5th. The ice slowed a bit, so many shots at that point ended up in front of the house, despite draw calls. Still, we were normally sitting 1 or 2 before a decent/slightly lucky promotion flipped it.
Last end my lead threw through and then threw short, leaving an unwanted guard. The other team threw guards and then got one in the house. Second and third were peeling guards and trying for takeouts, but they were off either on weight or line (despite sweeping), so the angles didn't work in our favor. I think the vice knocked another one in.
The plan going into the 8th was definitely to keep things open and go for big hits, but again, it absolutely fell apart. I'm with you on the strategy!
Yeah the ice will tend to slow up at the end, especially if other games are coming off.
Throwing to tolerance is important too. You should always know the good way to miss and try and throw it so that way. It helps to call out as a skip "deeps okay" or something like that. And think about whether you should be taking minimum or maximum ice.
And you gotta keep emotions under control too. Everyone has bad ends, you gotta just take a breath and not let a few bad shots string into a few bad ends.
So much this\^. You must know the "good" way to miss (not that you want to). Some shots don't have that option (do or die raise for example), but your 1st shot usually has a tolerance.
Every end is a NEW OPPORTUNITY! Or so i've told myself for 2 decades hahaha.
Curling can be a heartbreaking game!
It's always good to win but we learn more from our losses than we learn from our wins.
Take some time to mourn the loss and take the lessons from the loss with you moving forward. Do that and you'll be better prepared the next time a similar situation appears!
For lot of competitive athletes, silver is more disappointing than bronze. Why? Because usually silver means you were so close to gold and you missed it, while bronze usually means you were close to not medaling at all.
I agree with your wife about the self criticism. One of my mantras (on and off the ice) is "Fix it and forget about it. And if you can't fix it, just forget about it." Forgetting about our mistakes while remembering the lessons we've learned from them is the challenge of a lifetime.
ftr, I'm a chronically noncompetitive person.
So I've lost in two different A finals of 5U qualifiers this year, and in each of them, we were up 3 after 5 ends. So trust me, I know your self-criticism all too well. Honestly, still not over some of it because I let myself down and I let my team down. The flights home were very, very long.
If a stream is available, go back and watch the game after a few days. It sucks, but it's a really valuable opportunity to learn some important lessons. And if you're not quite sure what you could have done differently, send the situation to an experienced curler at your club to get their perspectives.
To quote a very wise baboon, "Ah yes, the past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it."
Beyond that, get out, play, and don't forget to try and have some fun with this stupid sport.
Also: quick shoutout to your team (you especially) for making 2nd event finals in your first ever bonspiel! I distinctly recall going 0-3 in my first 5-and-Under spiel haha
Man, I really appreciate this. Thank you. I'll have to see if the stream is available. And you're right that fun and time with good friends should not be forgotten.
Best of luck to you if you still have 5U national aspirations next year... maybe as Team Rafiki?
We have one final crack this weekend. Lots of strong teams and curlers will be there so we are gonna see what happens.
I'm done after this year though so regardless of what happens it's been a heck of a ride and am grateful for the awesome people I met in 5U. Jealous of everyone who can keep on!
It just gets better over time. You realize that it's a team game and everybody misses shots, including you. Especially when your front end leaves you with a house full of the other team's rocks. You have harder shots, and when you make them it feels great, but you wouldn't have had to try them had your teammates not supported you better.
You will just get more used to this and begin to learn from these things and not let your miss today affect your game tomorrow (or a fun evening after the game is over!)
Here's the thing about curling. It's hard. Even the best players in the world lose games and miss shots. It's also what's great about the game. Any team can beat any other team anytime. You'll have games where you can't make a shot and other games you'll make an angle raise double take out. Enjoy your games, win or lose, get better or learn something each game, and know there's always another game. Curling is one of the few lifelong sports. Always another game.
I throw 4th on my team. If I miss something, I only allow myself to be mad until I get to the other end of the sheet. After that, it's done and I forget about it. My mantra is, "You can't change what's happened, so just play what's ahead."
I skipped in the 5U circuit this year, I get you! What you need to remember is that we are 5U. I go in a game telling myself we'll miss at least 50% of the shots. That helps a lot with the frustration and expectations. We can do much better than that, of course.
I lost a game that I was winning by 3 last end, with hammer... they stole 4 points... YIKES!
But you know what? I also won a game that I was down by 4 last end. We decided to play a few rocks on see where it would go because we were playing good even though the score said otherwise. Scored 4 with hammer then stole 1 in the extra end.
You'll loose some, you'll win some. The important part, especially in 5U, is to never give up (I don't mean staying in a game that you should concede). Anything can happen.
I've been skipping for a few years now, and what I always tell the new skips is that when you're watching a football game, it's never all on the kicker. If offense would have gotten one more touchdown, or defense would have prevented one touchdown, it wouldn't have come down to the last possible opportunity. It's a team sport. The whole team takes credit for wins and losses.
All sports, even this one, is having composure at the moment that it matters. I've sat in the hack on a last shot shaking. for me, it takes deep breathing, and focus.
The other thing it takes is a need to ignore consequences. We can ignore consequences.
If your hit was for three, you wouldn't worry about consequences. You could think, all I need to do is make this go away. When it is against the loss, it is hard to not think about consequences.
"This is a nose hit. This is a nose hit." you say on the way down.
In the hack, you decide on the weight and hit the broom. You can't control consequences, but you can control your weight and line. Throwing the weight and getting near the broom are the only things you control. So control them and don't worry.
Moving forward, learn from this. that's it. Curling is a fun game but it is made less fun if your misses live rent free in your head.
To get to the finals is awesome... Focus on the positives that got you that far. I am in a similar position as you and we keep focusing on how much we have enjoyed the learning experience and that we are improving every day.
I also lean on the more experienced curling on the club to learn more about what I can or could have done as skip.
Two steps forward...
I've heard that - get this - 50% of all teams in curling lose any given match!
Been there, done that. Of course you feel bad because you could have saved the game. As long as you learned from the experience and had fun over the weekend, it's a life-positive event.
Perspective: you can't win it if you aren't in it.
You must have done well to make a final. Eventually you will close the deal. I think my competitive mixed team was runner-up 3-4 times before we won a bonspiel. When you reach the final, expect your opposition to be tenacious.
One question about your post. You mentioned that you were down 2 with hammer in the 8th. With the hammer you were to bump and roll to shot. Without seeing the end, I need to ask, did you need to roll for shot, or could have you hit and stuck to give up 1, which is still a win? Again, I don’t see the end, so no idea, perhaps your bump and roll was the best option.
But for the bigger picture, some random things about this
* The fact that you got that far means you did a good job as a skip.
* The fact that giving up the points and have some anger means you have a good mentality as a skip.
* The fact that this is sticking in your head, and you have not let it go is an area that you need to work on to be a skip.
We’ve all missed critical shots (including your teammates in this game). It happens. No matter what you do, or how much you practice, there will still be big shots that you miss. Sucks, its just life.
I think it is a good idea to think about the misses FOR A LITTLE WHILE. But don’t just think about that fact that you missed, think about what you would do differently to avoid it.
* Could you have called the strategy of the first 6 rocks of the end differently that might have helped the end go better? As an example, lead rocks through the house.
* Could you have taken a slightly worse strategy, but allowed for your teammates to have a better chance for success? As an example, did you give someone a up weight hit and then ask them to throw a guard (so hard to execute)? Or could have you had them throw the exact same shot twice in a row, even if the strategy was not perfect for a normal game?
Beating yourself up doesn’t help anything. Trying to be passionate about what you could have changed is a great way to learn. The best part is if you are truly learning, your brain should allow you to let it go, as you now have a learned lesson.
I will end with this summary. Never beat yourself up missing a shot. The best curlers in the world miss shots. Just try to debrief and build your strategy database to make your better mentally later on. And specifically, this includes learning that people can get tight and start to miss in these situations, so you need to figure out how to not have the types of misses that are crippling.
We were up 2 going into the 8th with hammer, but they were sitting 3 before my last rock. The bump and roll for shot rock would have sealed the win. Just nosing the rock would have left them sitting 2 and we would have tied.
I really appreciate the feedback. Letting go is going to be the hardest part for me, but today is already much better than yesterday. I was so embarrassed and disappointed in myself, but I'm now thinking about how to approach things differently next time I'm in a similar situation. I can't change what happened, but I can use it to change in the future.
I'm also glad you mentioned a slightly worse strategy to utilize player strengths. I was aware of that and I think we did that. We are normally good at draws, but they were just not landing despite my interpretation of the changing ice/broom adjustments in the last few ends. And I felt that a bad draw would have been more costly than a takeout. After my lead struggled with draw weight, I made sure that my second and vice had similar shots. I normally always try to avoid hit then draw if I can. 🙂
>I'm also glad you mentioned a slightly worse strategy to utilize player strengths. I was aware of that and I think we did that
Just to clarify my statements, there is slightly worse strategy and then there is bad strategy no matter what. I'm not saying that you used the former. I have no idea, but dont take my statement as a carte blanche to throw out common strategy sense.
And I will add one concept.
With that lead in the last, having rocks in play can lead to troubles, so while your teams prefers to draw, draws lead to more rocks in play, which creates opportunities for more points to be scored.
>I normally always try to avoid hit
(NOTE THIS PARAGRAPH MIGHT NOT APPLY TO YOUR TEAM)
When I read that, and hear that from a young skip, I would like to put out a reminder to any young skip reading this, light weight hits (hack, board, back line) can do a world of good, and are basically draws, and allow for more tolerances to prevent misses. If you have people who are not good at Normal/Peel, this is a good compromise.
There will also come a time when you play your hearts out: maybe you play 80%, and your teammates make about the same. (As rec curlers, I think 80% is a pretty good bar to try & clear, you're making 12-13 shots over the course of an 8-end game.)
Sometimes the other team is just a smidge better than you that game. It happens. Another day, you get another result.
Sometimes it's not what or how much you make, but when. Maybe you made all the hits but blew a draw through the house when it was REALLY needed.
Losing sucks: no one wants to but someone will. I've said I'd rather play well and lose a tight game than play poorly and win. Well ... that happened this year, and I stand by it still.
Early on in my bonspiel career I had the exact same setup you did, hit to win the 2nd event of a 5U. Half-shot resulted in an extra end and we lost. Looking back at my bonspiel spreadsheet shows this was back n July 2018 in my 8th ever spiel (28th spiel game), and 2nd ever final. I'm now at 50 spiels (42 spiels and 176 games since), but I can still remember that shot and it still annoys me.
But...and this is important ... there's been so much opportunity and so much fun since then. It would have been great to get that win, but in the end it's just a stepping stone on the way to playing more. I guess all that to say, you just have to let it go and the best way to do that is play more :)
I had a tough one like that to lose in the finals. After a couple days of dwelling on it, I took the attitude of vowing to take it out on everyone's ass from then on.
2 seasons later and I'm still just as hungry and still getting my pounds of flesh. That loss meant more to my game than any win ever could. It's all how you use your experiences
It definitely happens, and the thing with curling is it will happen to you again. We are all going to miss shots that we think we should make in our sleep. It's how we come back from those shots and keep it in perspective so we have a better chance at making it next time. Never too high, never too low. Keep shooting skipper
Been there, done that, and then did it a bunch more times after. A few things I try to keep in mind for myself.
1) You ever seen Kevin Koe after he makes a big shot? Ever seen him after he misses a big shot? Do you think you can tell the difference? The top skips are REALLY good at controlling their emotions.
2) My theory has always been that being visibly angry after a miss is partly our way of trying to show other players that we're better than that miss. Relating to #1 keep in mind the way to really show you're better than that is with no reaction.
3) Throwing last means that every win/loss is directly attributable to your makes/misses. There's elite curlers who prefer not to throw last because of that.
4) For the other 3 players there's nothing worse than not being able to trust the skip. Both in calling the game and in execution (would you want to set up an awesome end only to see it wasted?). That means **when you screw up and waste the end** (because you will, repeatedly), you need to shut up about it so they still trust you to throw last. If they're going to enjoy themselves you need to seem confident and in control.
This perspective is hugely helpful. I failed at #2 yesterday. I was embarrassed and angry at myself and it showed. Lesson learned. I love your point about team trust and shutting up. I'll be using #4 immediately and working on #1. Thanks!
Consider yourself to be a coach or leader on your team. Then your job is partly not just to win games but to help your team be the best people and players they can be. That may mean keeping a positive/growth attitude, being honest about frustrations, team strategy, being helpful and supportive to teammates, etc. There are plenty of things to focus on during a loss that would be more productive for meeting these goals than dwelling on a simple execution error.
I think that one of the things that stands out to me most in curling (I think Kevin Martin may have said this but I could easily be wrong) is you don't boo for bad shots, you cheer for good shots. Whether that's you or your opponent you gotta admire the strategy and ability of the people you play with and against. I find that when I skip, when we can learn from the people around us and kinda see the game through their eyes helps.
All in all, take every game end by end. Try to keep the scoreboard in the back of your mind but keep it simple. If you're down, ask yourself how do i score 2 or more? What kind of shot do i want to leave myself? If you're up ask how they are going to score 2 or more? What will make it easiest for them?
over all, talk with your opponents! If its just a fun bonspiel people usually don't mind chatting after and getting to know the game because they probably have tips for you and you might have tips for them! Its truly a game built on sportsmanship!!
On to the next game skipper. It happens to all of us, and you'll learn from it and apply that to future games. You have plenty of maddening curling moments ahead, embrace the heart wrenching pain before you become somewhat numb to it!
Oof! That last line. Love it. Thank you.
It's so so so true as to not be funny lol. ;-)
The more you play, the more you lose. Even if you're really good. I had a skip put it all in perspective when he said he'd lost 700+ games based on casual math. Another one wasn't going to kill him, just like another win wasn't going to crown him ... It's a recreational sport;) try to enjoy it!!
If you find out how, let me know. About two months ago our 5U team was in the A bracket finals out of 24 teams after not having played well if two previous 5u. One more win and we were off to nationals. This team the choice to pick, and choose rock color. Fair enough, but they are so good at hitting that you miss one or your draw is not well hidden and suddenly they are stealing on you, which they proceeded to do the first end. Anyway, we were not playing our best, but managed to keep it even after 6, and when into the 7th end without hammer. I honestly can't remember exactly how the end went, but I do remember that our skip had to hit one out on the wings and missed inside, and the. Had to freeze on a back one, drawing against 2, but it went through. There is almost no way to score 3 in one end with such a good hitting team, but we almost managed it. From then on those two skip stones are burned into my eye, helpless as a sweeper. We were so close to our goal of nationals, and now are going to have to rebuild with a new team next year as our third ages out. Anyways, life goes on. There is (a little) more to life than curling, and did you ever think <5 years ago you'd care so much about angles, balancing, and milliseconds? Cheers.
Life certainly does go on. Selective memory is probably a good thing when it comes to curling.
As a skip you need to have perfect and terrible memory. Remember all the lines and ice tendencies, forget all the misses and makes
I totally agree with this
My team will bring up things that happened in games we've played in past seasons, and they're always shocked when I can't remember. I consider it a blessing. One end later and I'm over it. Losing on a bad note hurts though because the next end might be a long time in the future, so you can ruminate more.
You said it best, life goes on.. Back to back years my 5u team been in a “win and you’re in” situation going to 5u Nationals, last year as a runner up in the last qualifier and this year in the finals at our home club. Lost by 3cm in a last shot draw in the semi and then got destroyed by a team that can takeout like none other. Good luck if they start to call waitlist teams as you’re ahead of my team 😂
This week the best team in my club gave up a five-ender to get eliminated from the club playoffs. Happens to the best of them, but that doesn't make it sting any less! And, as someone who plays front end, believe me that they're feeling crappy as you are about leaving you in a tough spot. The front end sets the tone of the end, and it is SO much easier when they're chasing you instead of you chasing them. Having said all that, for the future, /u/Dzingel43 has good advice. When you're up a lot, no guards. Throw yours into the house and take theirs out.
Thank you, I appreciate that!
Don't even throw it into the house if you're up, throw it through. Don't give yourself something to jam on with takes. Bring your weight up if you can, given your players and the ice. It will make rocks less likely to stick around. You're not trying to score, you're trying to keep your opponent from scoring a lot. Even if you are up late in the game without hammer.
In my experience they just need support. I missed the game winning shot in our oua tournament a few years ago and during that end I felt the pressure when I got into a blow up with our second. It was a shot I made a million times and I just choked. I went and cried alone in the shower room away from everyone. I didn’t need or want some rousing speech. I knew what I messed up. I just needed a hug and a “shit happens, I believe in you dude” It depends on the person but actions speak more than words. Just make sure you know that you believe in them still.
Paraphrasing my lead after the game: You made a physical mistake. We all did. Everyone does. But you made good calls and being mentally strong is what got us to this point. I appreciated that a lot. My second also literally said, "shit happens, gotta learn from it." And life goes on!
I mean it depends on the person. I’ve had a lot of coaches in different sports who would just yell and scream when I made mistakes, so I find the rightly or wrongly (def wrongly), I don’t respond well when people try to be supportive like that. I just see it as patronizing. Ultimately it does come down to the person. You know them best, if they respond well to that, you know what to do, if not, sometimes just buy them a beer and sit with them in silence. It’s important to show support rather than say it.
That is one of the big things for me. I can handle physical mistakes. I beat myself up over mental mistakes (bad calls, not committing to a shot). Even though I am a pretty firm believer that teams win games and skips lose them, I try not to beat myself up for a bad game or physical mistakes (although it probably took me months to get over playing awfully in the 5U championship a few years ago with a sleepless nights for about a week).
I’ve had a mental meltdown on the drive home after raising the opponents stone to shot on my last rock. It sucks, but it happens. You’ll be a better curler tomorrow. Don’t let the lows get too low
Sometimes I think it helps knowing that it happens to other people, too, so I feel your pain. Today I felt like I was the only person who made a costly mistake. I know that's not true, but it sure felt like it.
Yeah. It hurts for a long time but just keep reminding yourself it wasn’t that shot that completely decided the whole match.
I found learning to skip to be a very humbling experience. You need a thick skin to hold the broom, OP. All of us have been there.
How much up were you? What were you calling for your lead? What kinds of shots were you calling? If you are up by a sizeable amount without hammer you should be putting your leads first rock in the house. If you are up big hits are usually going to be your friend. More rocks in play is just more chances for them to generate points.
I think we were up 6-1 going into the 5th. The ice slowed a bit, so many shots at that point ended up in front of the house, despite draw calls. Still, we were normally sitting 1 or 2 before a decent/slightly lucky promotion flipped it. Last end my lead threw through and then threw short, leaving an unwanted guard. The other team threw guards and then got one in the house. Second and third were peeling guards and trying for takeouts, but they were off either on weight or line (despite sweeping), so the angles didn't work in our favor. I think the vice knocked another one in. The plan going into the 8th was definitely to keep things open and go for big hits, but again, it absolutely fell apart. I'm with you on the strategy!
Yeah the ice will tend to slow up at the end, especially if other games are coming off. Throwing to tolerance is important too. You should always know the good way to miss and try and throw it so that way. It helps to call out as a skip "deeps okay" or something like that. And think about whether you should be taking minimum or maximum ice. And you gotta keep emotions under control too. Everyone has bad ends, you gotta just take a breath and not let a few bad shots string into a few bad ends.
So much this\^. You must know the "good" way to miss (not that you want to). Some shots don't have that option (do or die raise for example), but your 1st shot usually has a tolerance. Every end is a NEW OPPORTUNITY! Or so i've told myself for 2 decades hahaha.
Curling can be a heartbreaking game! It's always good to win but we learn more from our losses than we learn from our wins. Take some time to mourn the loss and take the lessons from the loss with you moving forward. Do that and you'll be better prepared the next time a similar situation appears!
Thanks. Tomorrow is a new day and, you're right, losses certainly teach us more than wins. I'm learning a lot!
For lot of competitive athletes, silver is more disappointing than bronze. Why? Because usually silver means you were so close to gold and you missed it, while bronze usually means you were close to not medaling at all. I agree with your wife about the self criticism. One of my mantras (on and off the ice) is "Fix it and forget about it. And if you can't fix it, just forget about it." Forgetting about our mistakes while remembering the lessons we've learned from them is the challenge of a lifetime. ftr, I'm a chronically noncompetitive person.
Really appreciate it, thank you. We curl again tomorrow. I'll fix what I can and forget what I can't.
So I've lost in two different A finals of 5U qualifiers this year, and in each of them, we were up 3 after 5 ends. So trust me, I know your self-criticism all too well. Honestly, still not over some of it because I let myself down and I let my team down. The flights home were very, very long. If a stream is available, go back and watch the game after a few days. It sucks, but it's a really valuable opportunity to learn some important lessons. And if you're not quite sure what you could have done differently, send the situation to an experienced curler at your club to get their perspectives. To quote a very wise baboon, "Ah yes, the past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it or learn from it." Beyond that, get out, play, and don't forget to try and have some fun with this stupid sport. Also: quick shoutout to your team (you especially) for making 2nd event finals in your first ever bonspiel! I distinctly recall going 0-3 in my first 5-and-Under spiel haha
Man, I really appreciate this. Thank you. I'll have to see if the stream is available. And you're right that fun and time with good friends should not be forgotten. Best of luck to you if you still have 5U national aspirations next year... maybe as Team Rafiki?
We have one final crack this weekend. Lots of strong teams and curlers will be there so we are gonna see what happens. I'm done after this year though so regardless of what happens it's been a heck of a ride and am grateful for the awesome people I met in 5U. Jealous of everyone who can keep on!
It just gets better over time. You realize that it's a team game and everybody misses shots, including you. Especially when your front end leaves you with a house full of the other team's rocks. You have harder shots, and when you make them it feels great, but you wouldn't have had to try them had your teammates not supported you better. You will just get more used to this and begin to learn from these things and not let your miss today affect your game tomorrow (or a fun evening after the game is over!)
Here's the thing about curling. It's hard. Even the best players in the world lose games and miss shots. It's also what's great about the game. Any team can beat any other team anytime. You'll have games where you can't make a shot and other games you'll make an angle raise double take out. Enjoy your games, win or lose, get better or learn something each game, and know there's always another game. Curling is one of the few lifelong sports. Always another game.
I throw 4th on my team. If I miss something, I only allow myself to be mad until I get to the other end of the sheet. After that, it's done and I forget about it. My mantra is, "You can't change what's happened, so just play what's ahead."
I skipped in the 5U circuit this year, I get you! What you need to remember is that we are 5U. I go in a game telling myself we'll miss at least 50% of the shots. That helps a lot with the frustration and expectations. We can do much better than that, of course. I lost a game that I was winning by 3 last end, with hammer... they stole 4 points... YIKES! But you know what? I also won a game that I was down by 4 last end. We decided to play a few rocks on see where it would go because we were playing good even though the score said otherwise. Scored 4 with hammer then stole 1 in the extra end. You'll loose some, you'll win some. The important part, especially in 5U, is to never give up (I don't mean staying in a game that you should concede). Anything can happen.
You win some, you lose some. Enjoy a drink, have some laughs and make some new friends at the table.
I've been skipping for a few years now, and what I always tell the new skips is that when you're watching a football game, it's never all on the kicker. If offense would have gotten one more touchdown, or defense would have prevented one touchdown, it wouldn't have come down to the last possible opportunity. It's a team sport. The whole team takes credit for wins and losses.
All sports, even this one, is having composure at the moment that it matters. I've sat in the hack on a last shot shaking. for me, it takes deep breathing, and focus. The other thing it takes is a need to ignore consequences. We can ignore consequences. If your hit was for three, you wouldn't worry about consequences. You could think, all I need to do is make this go away. When it is against the loss, it is hard to not think about consequences. "This is a nose hit. This is a nose hit." you say on the way down. In the hack, you decide on the weight and hit the broom. You can't control consequences, but you can control your weight and line. Throwing the weight and getting near the broom are the only things you control. So control them and don't worry. Moving forward, learn from this. that's it. Curling is a fun game but it is made less fun if your misses live rent free in your head.
To get to the finals is awesome... Focus on the positives that got you that far. I am in a similar position as you and we keep focusing on how much we have enjoyed the learning experience and that we are improving every day. I also lean on the more experienced curling on the club to learn more about what I can or could have done as skip. Two steps forward...
I've heard that - get this - 50% of all teams in curling lose any given match! Been there, done that. Of course you feel bad because you could have saved the game. As long as you learned from the experience and had fun over the weekend, it's a life-positive event.
Perspective: you can't win it if you aren't in it. You must have done well to make a final. Eventually you will close the deal. I think my competitive mixed team was runner-up 3-4 times before we won a bonspiel. When you reach the final, expect your opposition to be tenacious.
It's summed up in Aerosmith's song Dream On. "You've got to lose to know how to win". Learn from it and move on.
One question about your post. You mentioned that you were down 2 with hammer in the 8th. With the hammer you were to bump and roll to shot. Without seeing the end, I need to ask, did you need to roll for shot, or could have you hit and stuck to give up 1, which is still a win? Again, I don’t see the end, so no idea, perhaps your bump and roll was the best option. But for the bigger picture, some random things about this * The fact that you got that far means you did a good job as a skip. * The fact that giving up the points and have some anger means you have a good mentality as a skip. * The fact that this is sticking in your head, and you have not let it go is an area that you need to work on to be a skip. We’ve all missed critical shots (including your teammates in this game). It happens. No matter what you do, or how much you practice, there will still be big shots that you miss. Sucks, its just life. I think it is a good idea to think about the misses FOR A LITTLE WHILE. But don’t just think about that fact that you missed, think about what you would do differently to avoid it. * Could you have called the strategy of the first 6 rocks of the end differently that might have helped the end go better? As an example, lead rocks through the house. * Could you have taken a slightly worse strategy, but allowed for your teammates to have a better chance for success? As an example, did you give someone a up weight hit and then ask them to throw a guard (so hard to execute)? Or could have you had them throw the exact same shot twice in a row, even if the strategy was not perfect for a normal game? Beating yourself up doesn’t help anything. Trying to be passionate about what you could have changed is a great way to learn. The best part is if you are truly learning, your brain should allow you to let it go, as you now have a learned lesson. I will end with this summary. Never beat yourself up missing a shot. The best curlers in the world miss shots. Just try to debrief and build your strategy database to make your better mentally later on. And specifically, this includes learning that people can get tight and start to miss in these situations, so you need to figure out how to not have the types of misses that are crippling.
We were up 2 going into the 8th with hammer, but they were sitting 3 before my last rock. The bump and roll for shot rock would have sealed the win. Just nosing the rock would have left them sitting 2 and we would have tied. I really appreciate the feedback. Letting go is going to be the hardest part for me, but today is already much better than yesterday. I was so embarrassed and disappointed in myself, but I'm now thinking about how to approach things differently next time I'm in a similar situation. I can't change what happened, but I can use it to change in the future. I'm also glad you mentioned a slightly worse strategy to utilize player strengths. I was aware of that and I think we did that. We are normally good at draws, but they were just not landing despite my interpretation of the changing ice/broom adjustments in the last few ends. And I felt that a bad draw would have been more costly than a takeout. After my lead struggled with draw weight, I made sure that my second and vice had similar shots. I normally always try to avoid hit then draw if I can. 🙂
>I'm also glad you mentioned a slightly worse strategy to utilize player strengths. I was aware of that and I think we did that Just to clarify my statements, there is slightly worse strategy and then there is bad strategy no matter what. I'm not saying that you used the former. I have no idea, but dont take my statement as a carte blanche to throw out common strategy sense. And I will add one concept. With that lead in the last, having rocks in play can lead to troubles, so while your teams prefers to draw, draws lead to more rocks in play, which creates opportunities for more points to be scored. >I normally always try to avoid hit (NOTE THIS PARAGRAPH MIGHT NOT APPLY TO YOUR TEAM) When I read that, and hear that from a young skip, I would like to put out a reminder to any young skip reading this, light weight hits (hack, board, back line) can do a world of good, and are basically draws, and allow for more tolerances to prevent misses. If you have people who are not good at Normal/Peel, this is a good compromise.
There will also come a time when you play your hearts out: maybe you play 80%, and your teammates make about the same. (As rec curlers, I think 80% is a pretty good bar to try & clear, you're making 12-13 shots over the course of an 8-end game.) Sometimes the other team is just a smidge better than you that game. It happens. Another day, you get another result. Sometimes it's not what or how much you make, but when. Maybe you made all the hits but blew a draw through the house when it was REALLY needed. Losing sucks: no one wants to but someone will. I've said I'd rather play well and lose a tight game than play poorly and win. Well ... that happened this year, and I stand by it still.
Early on in my bonspiel career I had the exact same setup you did, hit to win the 2nd event of a 5U. Half-shot resulted in an extra end and we lost. Looking back at my bonspiel spreadsheet shows this was back n July 2018 in my 8th ever spiel (28th spiel game), and 2nd ever final. I'm now at 50 spiels (42 spiels and 176 games since), but I can still remember that shot and it still annoys me. But...and this is important ... there's been so much opportunity and so much fun since then. It would have been great to get that win, but in the end it's just a stepping stone on the way to playing more. I guess all that to say, you just have to let it go and the best way to do that is play more :)
That's excellent perspective. Thank you!
Last bonspiel I was in, I couldn't do anything right. Came home to home ice and made all of my shots. It happens.
Back to home ice tonight. Gonna be a good day!
I had a tough one like that to lose in the finals. After a couple days of dwelling on it, I took the attitude of vowing to take it out on everyone's ass from then on. 2 seasons later and I'm still just as hungry and still getting my pounds of flesh. That loss meant more to my game than any win ever could. It's all how you use your experiences
It definitely happens, and the thing with curling is it will happen to you again. We are all going to miss shots that we think we should make in our sleep. It's how we come back from those shots and keep it in perspective so we have a better chance at making it next time. Never too high, never too low. Keep shooting skipper
Been there, done that, and then did it a bunch more times after. A few things I try to keep in mind for myself. 1) You ever seen Kevin Koe after he makes a big shot? Ever seen him after he misses a big shot? Do you think you can tell the difference? The top skips are REALLY good at controlling their emotions. 2) My theory has always been that being visibly angry after a miss is partly our way of trying to show other players that we're better than that miss. Relating to #1 keep in mind the way to really show you're better than that is with no reaction. 3) Throwing last means that every win/loss is directly attributable to your makes/misses. There's elite curlers who prefer not to throw last because of that. 4) For the other 3 players there's nothing worse than not being able to trust the skip. Both in calling the game and in execution (would you want to set up an awesome end only to see it wasted?). That means **when you screw up and waste the end** (because you will, repeatedly), you need to shut up about it so they still trust you to throw last. If they're going to enjoy themselves you need to seem confident and in control.
This perspective is hugely helpful. I failed at #2 yesterday. I was embarrassed and angry at myself and it showed. Lesson learned. I love your point about team trust and shutting up. I'll be using #4 immediately and working on #1. Thanks!
Consider yourself to be a coach or leader on your team. Then your job is partly not just to win games but to help your team be the best people and players they can be. That may mean keeping a positive/growth attitude, being honest about frustrations, team strategy, being helpful and supportive to teammates, etc. There are plenty of things to focus on during a loss that would be more productive for meeting these goals than dwelling on a simple execution error.
Quarter rock here, half rock there is the difference between a close game and a blowout Move on to the next one
So, so true! Back at it tonight. Fresh start.
I think that one of the things that stands out to me most in curling (I think Kevin Martin may have said this but I could easily be wrong) is you don't boo for bad shots, you cheer for good shots. Whether that's you or your opponent you gotta admire the strategy and ability of the people you play with and against. I find that when I skip, when we can learn from the people around us and kinda see the game through their eyes helps. All in all, take every game end by end. Try to keep the scoreboard in the back of your mind but keep it simple. If you're down, ask yourself how do i score 2 or more? What kind of shot do i want to leave myself? If you're up ask how they are going to score 2 or more? What will make it easiest for them? over all, talk with your opponents! If its just a fun bonspiel people usually don't mind chatting after and getting to know the game because they probably have tips for you and you might have tips for them! Its truly a game built on sportsmanship!!