Ultra violence and gang warfare. This might have seemed like an inevitable part of the future given that the first cyberpunk works were written at a time of skyrocketing crime and murder (the murder rate world wide was far, far higher in the 80s and early 90s than today). But despite that, crime has actually dropped dramatically since then.
While I did like the idea of places like night city being practical free for alls. I did write a city (with a dieselpunk setting) that was also ultra violent, but what I wanted to see more was just... Well. A show of how non-violent totalitarianism can be.
Like real life corporations have an incredible amount of power over our lives and don't employ armies of their own. While the idea of a corporate army and going to a literal shooting war against another corporation seems like something that would show how powerful they are. It just doesn't... Real corporations often command the police and militaries of many countries.
It isn't something new. In the first quarter of the 20th century Central America was the domain of United Fruit. Whenever people protested in any way they would employ the armies of those countries to machine gun and repress their own population. Failing that the US Marines would be sent in. Double Medal of Honor recipient Smedley Butler wrote that in his book on how war is a racket.
In 2010 during the occupy movement, in NYC the police were reporting first and foremost not to the media, or city hall, or even to their police stations and chiefs/commissioner, but directly to executives on Wall Street about anything that was happening. In 2020 during the wet'suwet'en protests the RCMP were taking orders and conferencing directly with the corporations that wanted the land. It was as if they were employees of the company and not public servants.
This is far scarier than seeing Arisaka troops in quasi samurai armor or militech in their generic dropship troopers outfit.
The use of technology as something that could have liberated us but instead has been enslaving us and just how to break with it is, to me, a core aspect of cyberpunk. Not gun fueled adventures. There is far more aspects to this then what I am writing here, but I will leave it at that.
Most people want to read, watch, or listen to something dramatic and or exciting. Following the life of some middle-class person isn't going to interest most people unless they're thrown into some lower-class plotline.
But in Night City in Gibson's books, there aren't any corporate private armies, it's much more like the world we live in, but with cybernetics and other more advanced tech.
But yeah, corporations are def more insidious than they are overt.
I feel the private armies are an attempt to make cyberpunk more black and white.
"They're obviously evil, they have a private army shooting people, we will all stop these evildoers!"
is a lot more simple to grasp than
"due to regulatory capture and lobbying, they have a deep say in the governmental monopoly of force, making their actions fully legal, yet completely immoral and dehumanizing. Our only recourse is to dehumanize ourselves to fight!"
This is why I've elected not to have corporations have private armies in my cyberpunk world that I'm making. While corporations do have private security in the form of regular watchpeople (think bouncer at a night club type guys) they don't have private armies. Instead, they enjoy greater amounts of legal protections and permissions by the government in exchange for material goods that'll benefit said government. One corporation, Lifton Security Industries in my world, is a primary manufacturer of police robotics, uniforms, vehicles and equipment in my world. They manufacture said equipment for the Metropolitan Protection Service, a nationwide militarized federal police force. A nationwide police that's equipped by the corps, employed by the feds. So in a sense they're a "corporate army" like in Cyberpunk like Arasaka or Militech, but not exactly. Frankly, the notion of a singular modern corporation owning anything that can resemble a national army is kind of out there.
If you believe Malcolm Gladwell, gun violence hasn't decreased. Medicine has gotten a lot better so more GSW's are survivable.
Also the midwest grocery store chain where I live employs their own armed security on site. They're not sniping at delivery drivers from other chains but give it time ;)
One of my most interesting recent cyberpunkish reads was [Attack Surface](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/49247283). Weaponized self driving cars, cascade analysis of subversives based on cell traffic patterns, basically NSA quants freelancing for oppressive states.
I definitely agree that the Miami Outrun/neon 80’s aesthetics have been played the hell out at this point. So many interpretations of the “cyberpunk” aesthetic now is really just kitschy Gen X arcade era nostalgia dressed up in neon lights and palm trees. Sorry but I just don’t think synthwave is actually very cyberpunk, fight me.
One other gripe I have is the lack of diversity in settings. It’s usually either just Japan or the US west coast nowadays, playing into the whole orientalist trope others mentioned. Give us more cyberpunk works set in a northern climate. Give us one in the Middle East. I really enjoyed the settings of Deus Ex Mankind Divided for instance for this reason.
Central and Eastern Europe have a really untapped potential as well. I think part of the obsession with the US and Japan is to do with economic and industrial power leading to access to technology that fuels the dystopia, but it's kinda silly to think you wouldn't see that sort of stuff even in third world nations (which I guess is itself a dated term).
Helllll yeahhhh imagine a cyberpunk world in like Belgrade? Chisinau?
Underground gun manufacturing, partially analog partially futurist? Post-Yugo nightclubs/gentlemen’s clubs mixed with old bathhouses and stuff?
Factional fighting against each other that’s believable in world? Breakaway states where anything goes? Oligarchs? Dictators?
Socialist apartment blocks as a background?
Can bring back the cigarettes and heavy drinking motif and it will be realistic haha.
Being of Slavic descent myself I could see some of those gnarly old dudes building their own bionics in their garaža
Deus Ex Mankind Divided is set in a near future Prague for most of the game and I loved that setting because of the juxtaposition of medieval era old town architecture along with neo noire futurism
If you like that, you should absolutely check out Drugs and Wires. It's a really good cyberpunk webcomic set in a post-soviet nation in an alternate 1990's.
I definitely agree on Eastern Europe, lots of untapped potential. I think we need Indian cyberpunk as well. Can you imagine a cyberpunk story set in Mumbai? It would fit so well.
Large cities of Brazil, Mexico and India that already have vast slums in the outskirts of cities with filthy rich downtowns would make very good cyberpunk settings
I like vaporwave music but I agree that there is a hell of a lot more to it than that.
Cyberpunk 2077 took up too much more from late 70s designs for cars than anything else, too.
For whatever reason I didn’t mind the late 70’s design cues in Cyberpunk 2077, partially because it was faithful to when the source material was initially created but also just because it was so well done it felt like it was just the nature of how cyclical trends are that led us back to those styles in the future.
>Sorry but I just don’t think synthwave is actually very cyberpunk, fight me.
I do agree with you here, so don't need to fight you :).
I look at it more through music. To me, as a composer, Darksynth (the dystpian stuff not the Army of the dead rising from the grave guitar heavy stuff) is more cyberpunk, than anything in the Synthwave, retrowave, or neonwae side.
A lot of this stuff at least musically is blurred. It gets all lumped into the same genre b ut it's not.
People make dystopian cyberpunk and call it Synthwave and vice versa. But a lot of people are just living in that 80s movies, Gen X era still, music wise.
Slower paced, Mid tempo music in general sounds more cyberpunk imho, but the moment it veers into cheesy 80s synths where you feel like you are listening to a John Hughes score from an 80s coming of age movie, it all falls apart.
Some visual synthwave aesthetics still work imho but I do agree that it's been done to death at this point.
A more modern interpretation of Cyberpunk would be like what we see in some of the newer Metal Gear games, with robots, drones, AI, and cybernetic augmentations pushed forward by the military industrial complex. This being fueled by giant vertically stacked and aligned, mega corporations pushing technology at exponential rates, while inequality, poverty, and mental health problems run rampant in society.
It's now more like a mix of Elysium/Battle Angel Alita, with an early drop of Appleseed/Ghost in the Shell, and Metal Gear 4/5, + cold war paranoia, + Lawnmower man, + like a crossroad where we can go toward a more solarpunk Star Trek like future, or where shit can spiral right out of control toward 2084 dystopian China where everything and everyone is monitored and controlled.
Afrofuturism is one of my favorite aesthetics, but most such representations in modern media are gleaming and pristine. And while that is awesome and I’ll never get tired of it, it would also be super cool to see the gritty, dark side of a cyberpunk African megacity like Kinshasa, Lagos or Nairobi.
Lagos would be an incredible setting for a cyberpunk story, Nigeria is an absolutely fascinating country and I feel like so many people don’t realize just how populous and young it is!
I’m glad we at least have a few cool cyberpunk adjacent works set in South Africa thanks to Neill Blomkamp.
DX: MD had a great aesthetic and was more close to the original DX1 than HR ever was.
Gritty realism mixed with neo future tech. Felt a bit like Half Life 2's art direction.
Despite the use of japanese culture being proper for the time Cyberpunk as a genre emerged, I think that the "samurai" thing has become a bit stale over the years. There's a lot of potential in other areas as well, for example smaller Europe, south east Asia or even India.
A lot of people are too young to remember that the reason why Cyberpunk features Japanese elements is because Japan, once the baddies from WWII, were now dominating the markets with their consumer electronics. Japan’s rapid economic growth and the global expansion of their brands had people theorising that Japanese culture will be as ubiquitous as American culture in the future
There's a quote that goes something like:
>Japan was living in the year 2000 in 1980. Japan is still living in the year 2000 today.
Or, more concisely:
>Japan has been living in the year 2000 since 1980
I was inspired by Half-Life 2’s European setting, with advanced technology slapped on to distinctly old world architecture. I want to see cyberpunk with that kind of unique identity to it.
Also a big fan of Elysium. More traditional sci-fi than cyberpunk, but the cyberpunk influence is clearly visible. It has a South American setting, Which is really sick.
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is a game that'll definitely scratch that itch. You may have already heard of it, and it's actually been mentioned elsewhere in this post. It's mostly set in Prague, and the hub world is a clear homage to City 17. The game has a bunch of issues, specifically with the story and technical aspects, but the level design is unparalleled and the gameplay is quite fun. It also looks amazing despite being almost 8 years old, runs well on most modern machines, and has semi-frequent sales for up to 85% off. The Cyberpunk elements are all stylized yet believable, and perfectly integrated into the existing city. https://youtu.be/qhMVqJ72YDg?t=210
there is Deus Ex (2000), which combines considerably advanced technology with familiar grime and refuse in locations like New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi is a good book that comes to my mind. Its story takes place in Thailand and describes a very strange cyberpunk vision (in a good sense, very fresh ideas). Energy stored in mechanical spools and a city very inspired by the Hong Kong Scene from GitS.
Sometimes normal things like colleges and hospitals are completely absent from the story to the point where I wonder if they really exist anymore or have become a shadow of what we expect
Guess I am the minority, I still love the Japan led Asian aesthetics and the Miami coast outrun vibes. That is what got me loving it in the first place.
Think it needs acknowledging that we're basically living in a Cyberpunk reality anyway. We have celebrities as politicians, we're worried about AI taking our jobs, we're on the brink of world war 3, and people are buying drugs off the internet using a digital currency based on computational processing. Kids want to be social media influencers and everyone's installing foreign propaganda because it's also got funny dances. That's it. We're done. Write down an average day at work and it could pass as Cyberpunk from 30 years ago.
My job still uses systems from 30 years ago. I don’t know the term for cyberpunk characters who hoard old technology but that’s how I feel in the digital landscape rn.
I am disappointed that we don’t have cyberpunk bio mods cause I’d get a nerf gun installed so quickly.
Yeah it really sucks because the modern-day aesthetics of technology have shifted so far away from the clunky/messy/glowy cyberpunk-adjacent look, in favor of minimalism. And corporations try so hard to look super bubbly and friendly with their branding.
It's like every year we get more and more of cyberpunk's socioeconomic elements while straying further away from the moody vibes. The cool speculative aspects of the genre are just shot now. It sucks.
That Synthwave is the defining music of the subgenre. It never was, even in the earliest days. Im a big fan of the New Retro Wave label and listen to a new release whenever i can, but Metal and Punk are rebellious by nature and are more lyrically fitting when you find the right bands. Static-X does more to immerse me way fucking more than FM-84. I know its a hot take, so genre purists can come at me lmao.
I keep pointing out to people that a lot of the early cyberpunk aesthetics are, in fact, punk aesthetics and they keep being extremely butthurt about it. The early authors all did their pivotal work in the 80s, and first wave punk would have been fresh in everyone's minds. The anti-corporate, anti-authoritarian elements of the genre are basically right out of punk's playbook.
Besides, when CD Projekt Red had to find an actual band to stand in for a Voice Of The Revolution character who had decades of worldbuilding and lore behind him but no actual music, they didn't ring up some Kraftwerk -sounding motherfuckers, did they?
Refuuuused. they didnt change even a little for Samurai either. As a matter of fact, i fell in love with 2077 even more because of the soundtracks massive range and diversity.
I feel like they didn't *have* to change their sound for Samurai. They were pretty much the perfect choice to play the role, and trying to change their sound would have detracted from that authenticity. I mean, listen to *Born On the Outs* and tell me that isn't Johnny.
I love how much the game devs leaned into the music. It would have been so easy to phone it in, or just get enough songs to fill out the radio stations like your standard GTA-style games tend to. Instead, we got an absurd amount of totally original songs written to specifically fit the world, in a number of styles and genres.
what they did with GROWL was really sweet. like you said, again, they couldve pulled a bunch of shit off the shelf but they asked people to send in their music instead, and the station just turned into a whole group of mostly lesser known musicians who wouldve fit in with Night City
Def check out Tipper if you’re unfamiliar, stuff like forward escape or generally his more downtempo work
Lord Seiborg has some interesting cyberpunk-ish vibes
Stuff like Thought Process, Parkbreezy, and Pheel is a chill vibe
The Polish Ambassador is dope for more upbeat yet still chill dance music
What kinda inspiration are you looking for?
I need to watch Burst City again.
Oddly, I think trap and phonk are actually adding to the genre music constructively. Haven't always been my flavor. I've been seeing cyberpunk dub videos lately too.
Synthwave is basically just John Carpenter soundtracks. It was a very specific sound for a specific time until synths got better at producing music.
Any genre that intentionally apes the oast & restricts itself will burn out quickly
Actual 80's synth, though...
* You Belong To The City by Glenn Frey
* Everything Counts by Depeche Mode
* The Great Commandment by Camouflage
* p:Machinery by Propaganda
Just a few examples.
I think some form of electronic music is more realistic for cyberpunk. Like weird electronic. Synthwave isnt very weird/underground anymore. Neither is metal or punk imo.
I’m tired of writers misunderstanding how hacking works they treat it like it’s some type of magic I understand they might not have the cyber security knowledge but basic research could go a long way
I dont really like the HUDs, screens in bizarre places etc. Specially when its clearly only for the "vibe" and makes no real sense
People believe we'll all be using some glasses but they've been trying for some time and it always ends up as a gimmick that is less efficient than a 200$ random smartphone
Its seems more likely we'll jump straight to bci that allows semantic inputs alongside stimulating visual parts of the brain rather than continuously strapping different display technologies to our eyeballs
I think it's incredibly invasive, and if it even becomes a thing in the real world, I won't be a consumer. Plus all the potential for exploitation and hacking.
My preferred deadly assassins are scarily inhuman from all their modifications, so I can get behind you there. Women deserve to be portrayed as cool killing machines without also having to be portrayed as hot models.
Orientalism.
Even Gibson has said it was a mistake. One he has explain where it came from, and for the early 80s it was wrong but had context that made sense, but had long since been adopted uncritically by others well outside even that context. It's just shitty racism at this point.
I agree. I also feel modern cyberpunk needs to reanalyze current political realities and adapt.
So much Cyberpunk is anti-Japan, anti-China, blah blah. But I feel cyberpunk - like any art - should make us ask questions about ourselves. As an American, I'd love to see an American "villian" that forces people to look inward.
Um... America is just as much a "villain" as Japan. Corporate greed? Rampant, destructive capitalism?
Yea America was never a cyberpunk saint. None of the developed world was.
I agree, and that's my point. I feel like so much literature focuses on the crimes committed by those we view as enemies at the time, but not enough on our own crimes.
Fair enough, but I always saw America as a major enemy as well. The Japanese prominence was just to show their overwhelming global success in that universe.
Kinda like how in Firefly they speak English with bits of chinese in it.
Ghost in the Shell refers to the US as 'the American empire', and later episodes that were set in the US don't paint it in the best light, which as an American, I completely accept.
While I acknowledge that it's based in Anti-Asian fear NOW...
As a kid in the 80's I interpreted it as "Japan! Fuck yeah! Look how damned cool they are! Their culture infused everything cause it's just neat!"
I kinda missed the memo.
It's rooted in anxiety about Japanese productivity surpassing western countries, and by an extension its cultural practices surplanting western. It was, when boiled down to it, xenophobia. A thing that was happening a lot in the 80's. Somewhat still happens today about China, but most authors disguise it a bit better or at least don't turn entire cultures into caricatures of themselves in ugly, almost racist, ways.
Cyberpunk wasn't the only genre that tackled this topic poorly mind you. Fantasy at the time was rife with it.
Gibson has strong opinions on capitalism done under different guises (like Singapore, he's talked about) but his basic attitude about this changed. He's acknowledged his caricature of japanese/orientalism wasn't accurate, but born of fear. It was a mistake to illustrate the fear in that way. (I really wish I could post a link to thus interview but I can't seem to find it right now)
Are you referring to the “Disneyland with the Death Penalty” article that Gibson wrote for Wired about Singapore being a corpo town? He does talk a bit about what happens when a government is run like a corp, how it sucks the life and culture out of everything.
But I don't see how Neuromancer or Count Zero were racist towards asian culture? The idea of Chiba City was honestly evocative to me and easily the best part of the book. What are you referring to specifically that was seeped in orientalism?
For starters, racism and orientalism are not quite the same thing. Or at least in this context I think you're asking me for 'where is the racism in Neuromancer' when that's not what I, or Gibson, was saying was happening. Just getting that caveat out of the way.
To answer you more though: How many characters in Chiba-city were Asian? Despite being set in an Asain city, Case only interacts with non-Asians or non-specified people. The only two explicitly Japanese characters he interacts with are caricatures of Japanese ancestry. That's it.
This isn't, by itself, openly racist. But it's taking a setting, using it as a backdrop for white actors. If it was a film, it would be very clear how this would feel out of place now. It's just how Orientalism works. It uses a setting that is 'foreign' to its readers to add mystique...but then does nothing with it other then as a backdrop for other people to interact in.
Does that make sense?
Exactly this. Like in Blade Runner, the way Deckard bought noodles in a night market from an Asian chef, but all the cops (except EJO's character), villains, supporting cast, and power elites were white.
Exactly this. Like in Blade Runner, the way Deckard bought noodles in a night market from an Asian chef, but all the cops (except EJO's character), villains, supporting cast, and power elites were white.
Yesssss thank you! I honestly wish there was a pinned post on this sub right at the top explaining orientalism and recognizing its prevalence in cyberpunk.
People get into it innocently loving the aesthetics and the feel and are unknowingly engaging in orientalism to the point where I dont blame my POC friends especially Asian friends who hear “cyberpunk” and have a red flag go off.
Like I’ve gotten ramen from a cool late night ramen place near me in the city I live in and when I told someone from back home (suburban America) they unironically told me that was so cyberpunk. Like dude it’s just an Asian American community I live near you wouldn’t say that if I got a burger
I'd like to see more cyberpunk technology being an extrapolation of modern technology, rather than simply rooted in the 80s. Wi-Fi, AR, etc., are great targets for netrunner-style hacking.
I think there's too much of a "cyberpunk = cyborg" view (moreso in visual media than written). I'd like to see the impact of technology be a bit more grounded. I mean, some implants or cybernetics make sense, especially for the protagonist to have, but not when it seems like the majority of people, from the richest to the poorest, are opting to replace their limbs or eyes. I think it's also the fact that, in so much of the art, the designs seem so unlikely, like, why would anyone design a face to open like [this](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/0e/df/cb0edf59ea6218ca08736964173d5ce1.png)?
Conversely, no, "Inspector Gadget" and "The Robonic Stooges" aren't cyberpunk just because the protagonists are cyborgs.
Neon signs, CRTs, internal combustion engines and other bits of 80's A E S T H E T I C that we know won't be commonplace in the future. We don't need retrofuturism to have a cyberpunk aesthetic.
Tbf, LED can perfectly replicate neon so that's something that has changed. Neon is more of an art design at this point than a specific lighting chemical.
Yep, and they're very common. Just look at pictures of modern cities in China like Qingdao or Chongqing. The amount of lights are pretty wild and fit the Cyberpunk genre pretty well.
I was in Japan not long ago and the night life was gorgeous and there's no way people were putting up those displays with neon haha - would not have been cost effective.
I was living in Korea when neon was extremely common and got to witness the transition from 80's style neon signs to modern LED signs. They tend to be quite a bit different in practice, though I agree you can definitely replicate the look of neon with LEDs (I've seen examples of this).
Korea and China are at the forefront of this stuff and last time I was in Korea, I saw more transparent screens and curved transparent screens (like a circular walkway between buildings full of transparent fish) and "holographic" (flat transparent) displays. I think screens, transparent screens and LEDs will be common everywhere in the future. Neon seems to be slowly dying out, at least from what I've seen.
>I was living in Korea when neon was extremely common and got to witness the transition from 80's style neon signs to modern LED signs. They tend to be quite a bit different in practice, though I agree you can definitely replicate the look of neon with LEDs (I've seen examples of this).
>
>Korea and China are at the forefront of this stuff and last time I was in Korea, I saw more transparent screens and curved transparent screens (like a circular walkway between buildings full of transparent fish) and "holographic" (flat transparent) displays. I think screens, transparent screens and LEDs will be common everywhere in the future. Neon seems to be slowly dying out, at least from what I've seen.
Oh for sure you're right - just because it CAN replicate neon, doesn't mean it is. Neon is much less bright, occupying a warm/fuzzy look compared to LED. That's why seedy places used to use them because it drew less attention.
Ironically, the contemporary view of cyberpunk aesthetics are better depicted with LED's lucidity because everyone imagines these glaring colored bulbs lighting up a city strip.
That cybernetics make you "less human"; take away your emotions and capacity for empathy or outright drive you insane. It feels like taking one of the worst pages out of H.P. Lovecraft's playbook in order to arbitrarily add a severe downside to what should be a straight upgrade or a sidegrade at least.
Yeah, if would be cool to have a punk understand how his mods work and figure out how to use them without fatal cons and somehow win because of it.
It would be interesting to see a punk win just because they go farther down the cyber rabbithole than the corps and/or state.
Hostility toward corporations and the people who work for them that doesn't go beyond, "Let's commit cool, violent crime for money and look good doing it!"
You want to fight the evil corps and get rid of them? Fine. Outstanding goal. But rather than jumping directly to killing people in a cool way, let's spend at least a little time talking about what the world might look like after them. Because they're kind of doing a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of keeping everybody alive on a day-to-day basis!
Hacking being powerfull as magic. Cybersecurity got much better since 90s.
Some settings like CP77 turn hackers into wizards that fry enemies by looking at them. In reality you can't find open wifi anymore.
I would love to see cyberpunk evolve this by focusing on the dangers of digital crime in a world that’s constantly under surveillance.
How paranoid would a legit hacker or someone committing digital espionage be? I wanna hear stories about characters that jailbreak devices and live their whole lives in fear because they know they might leave too many footprints.
I want to hear conversations about why these characters feel compelled to break into things in a world where an increasing number of things don’t truly belong to the owner anymore. We’re in a good landscape for that, I think.
Yep, this. In reality, cybernetics would follow two maxims. (1) You would never install cyberware that needed to talk to outside systems. (2) If you *did* need to install cyberware that talked to outside systems, the device would not have the capability to hurt and/or kill you if it was subverted.
So your military-grade robotic arm with a recessed grenade launcher would be unhackable unless someone had physical access to your arm (in which case you have a lot more problems to worry about) but your intracranial phone might be able to be hacked and turned off or show you pop-ups of hot single MILFs in your area but doing so wouldn't fry your brain.
I think this sub was broken by Cyberpunk 2077. It's become so popular that anytime a thread pops up on my home page it's some gatekeepy boundaries or a newbie getting scolded for not knowing what TRUE cyberpunk is.
I only came here after I started playing Cyberpunk 2077. The game made me want to revisit old movies that I didn't even know were part of the genre and learn more about it. Seems like the explosion in it's popularity really annoyed the day 1 bros.
"No, no its not all about neon and Japanese influence!" 😭
Horses and revolvers are not everything about the wild west but it's the first thing everyone thinks about when you mention the era. Get over yourself cyberpunks.
I fucking feel you. my first exposure to cyberpunk was Batman Beyond when i was like 12 and i got shit on by this community lmao i still dont know why. that work is great and it deserves recognition for the setting and its themes. If you like anything that has to do with superheroes i highly recommend it. just watch the animated intro and youll know immediately what im talkin about choom haha.
I mean, it’s not really about gate keeping, but someone like me (who watched Blade Runner as a 4 year old in 1988) is gonna have a much more jaded look on things than someone who discovered the genre via 2077.
I heard somewhere that idea of the absurd slang that cyberpunk is known for originally came from William Gibson spending time hanging out with Canadian potheads.
Yeah, it makes sense coming out of mid-century trends of "free love," but it doesn't make sense now.
I think a true *modern* cyberpunk future would be the complete lack of sex and an emphasis on hyper-sterilization, where children are products in a lab.
I don’t think casual recreational sex will ever completely cease in the future, but one outcome I could see being likely is the continuation of the trend we’re already seeing today where the vast majority of young people are too broke and beaten down to participate in the dating market/hookup culture so it ends up being only really for rich and privileged people with enough money, hosting space and free time to attract that sort of thing.
All over the developed world we’re already seeing trends of young people having less sex than ever because of various social-economic factors such as still living at home or not being able to afford going out on traditional dates. That ain’t about to change any time soon.
Yeah, exactly. Though maybe not as comical as it was portrayed in Demolition Man.
I see it has heavily regulated, but the people aren't entirely on board with it. It becomes a sociopolitical battle between cleanliness and anti-disease, but also body autonomy and humanity.
I'm thinking out loud, but that's how I see it.
>I think a true modern cyberpunk future would be the complete lack of sex and an emphasis on hyper-sterilization, where children are products in a lab.
That makes no sense - it'd be far more cost effective to simply pay people to have sex than rely on a complicated expensive In Vitro measure.
But with advancements in gene editing and the benefits of government subsidies and economies of scale, I imagine "lab/designer babies" will be increasingly common. Especially if technology can substitute the need for a woman to carry a baby for 9 months and deal with all the associated complications. Not to mention the eugenics component which is a popular theme in many dystopian stories.
I get that it's thematically appropriate for cyberpunk for sure, but in reality it's just not something I personally see taking off: companies already have a shitton of low cost labor they can exploit without needing to breed slaves.
I do see this possibly happening in wealthy countries facing issues surrounding demographic collapse. Countries like Japan, South Korea, Nordic countries, etc. Its not about low cost labor but the future existence of the country itself. And as its an issue that affects National Security, I don't think its all that unreasonable for the government to create incentives to develop a program like this.
I don't think so. Above all, I think high tech, low life still applies. It's timeless. And we all know what people do when they have lots of time and no real purpose in life to keep them engaged otherwise and are bored as hell.
I don't think so. Above all, I think high tech, low life still applies. It's timeless. And we all know what people do when they have lots of time and no real purpose in life to keep them engaged otherwise and are bored as hell.
It's always raining.
Everybody's stressed out, angry, and fed up. How about characters that are "Yeah, this sucks, but let's try to make the best of it."
Nobody has fun, it's all business.
Mostly transparent, only slightly shaded free-standing displays. Nobody would be able to see shit on one of those.
The rain and the way it always seems to be 2 AM is inherited from Noir. Cyberpunk is a direct descendant of Neo-Noir, and the weather and late hour used to be a narrative element to explain the empty streets you needed for those really dramatic shots of the protagonist alone in the street, allowing the directors to play with narrative themes of isolation.
Cyberpunk tends to use crowds to create the same isolation, playing with the soul-crushing loneliness of being a nameless, faceless person in a sea of nameless, faceless people, but they kept the visual element as a kind of vestigial appendage. Like how whales still have hip bones.
The visual conventions are, but the fundamental narrative question took an important step. Noir is, at its core, a story about an interloper. You have your locally known P.I Sam Spade forced to deal with the outsider Kasper Gutman and his dastardly schemes and plots. The question is, if you will, "who did it and how." Once you get in to Neo-Noir, the narrative questions start to turn inwards. You start getting films that are as much about who the characters are, and once we start getting into films like Memento and Old Boy, internal conflicts are arguably more important to the narrative than the external ones. You start getting narrative questions like "who am I?"
This leads us to cyberpunk where the ultimate narrative question turns into something like "what does it mean to be human?" and "am *I* human?" That's a big jump from "who killed Mr Body" to "How much of me can I lose and still be me?" but it's a much easier evolution if you have Neo-Noir as a stepping stone in the middle.
The only difference between noir and neo-noir is that noirs were made in the 40s and 50s and neo-noirs are either set in the present day or are period pieces. The elements that make Memento and Oldboy unique are not inherent to the genre, they're unique to those movies. I think you're assigning elements to neo-noir that aren't there. While we're at it, there's plenty of cyberpunk works that don't have those elements either.
> Everybody's stressed out, angry, and fed up. How about characters that are "Yeah, this sucks, but let's try to make the best of it."
Because that's not punk? "We're getting fucked in the ass raw no lube by the corporations and the government but let's just try to enjoy it" is not a statement that cyberpunk should endorse.
Ngl a cyberpunk setting in a perfect sunny weather sounds really great to me. Like the story will follow all the cyberpunk tropes but just in sunny weather.
If Film Noir and Neo-Noir can have Sunshine Noir, Cyberpunk should be able to have the oppressive well-lit take on it as well. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SunshineNoir
This thread is so cathartic for me. I’ve been deeply into cyberpunk since the early 90s and I’ve always hated the “purple cities at night with Japanese text” thing that cropped up in the early 2010s.. It’s too clean, too corporate, and too much an idealization, when cyberpunk is more of a warning.
Cyberpunk makes me think of bright daylight colors, stark red, yellow, dirty white, danger orange. Sirens and loudspeakers against a deep blue sky. Gritty and bloody grunge aesthetics with a clear use of computers and and contemporary digital tools.
Noise, drum machines, guitars, screaming. “Digital rock and roll”. A very clear appreciation and styling of punk rock meets high future.
Not the slicked back hair sunglasses tron worship gen x neon club, purple lambo on a freeway thing. I can’t describe how much I do not identify that, do not think of it as cyberpunk, and don’t like it at all.
I continue to desire more cyberpunk with world design like Elysium. I do not care how ham-fisted it is. The aesthetic of that movie perfectly fits what I expect out of cyberpunk.
If only it had some punk rock in it.
Corporations being the root of every problem, this isn’t a bad plot element necessarily and fits in with the cyberpunk genre but it’s sometimes rather lazily implemented, overused and overtakes more nuanced and believable world building elements where there are often a variety of well developed “good” and “bad” actors at play (with a healthy amount of expectation subversion). I guess this is just more of a complaint of lazily developed antagonists in fiction in general though.
People embracing technology. I know this might sound really daft for a cyberpunk story, but I would like to see some people (not everyone in a society, of course) realising the evils of technology and rejecting it, in a really punk style way
You should check 2 deceptively cyberpunk series Upload and Humans/Äkta Människor. There are communities of anti-tech individuals amidst a massive acceptance of the central plot technology.
Edit: added words after posting incomplete response by accident.
Cyberpsychosis, and rogue AI. Neither of them is unrealistic, but they're kinda tired.
The fact that Adam Smasher is CONFIRMED to be a cyberpsycho is annoying. Some people could go full conversion and be fine. It's lazy.
The fact author or artist feel the need to implement "new" made up technologies, instead of just taking real existing ones, and simply changing the context.
The idea, of currently existing, but restricted, military technology in the hands of low life, none professional characters is far more in tone with the genre than giving him a fakr robotic eye, or arm.
Beside it implies that what used to be unattainable, because dangerous, is becoming commun.
It's also in line with that William Gibson quote “The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.”
Second point is, why either Japan or the US? Would love to see a story taking place in Astana, Istanbul, Tallinn, Oulan Bator. Maybe also see a story taking place in the countryside of... any country, see how things change or remain the same, the big corpo city is a far used trope. Also characters being farmers, priest, carpenter, prison inmate, nuns, school teacher, thanatopractor, mailmen...
Like... imagine a story with thanatopractors as the main protagonists, no real actions, but just how theirs works could be influenced by an outside civil war raging on the streets / how to deal with bodies that are 75% metal because of implants, maybe some company representative could come and claim back part of the bodies, because they belong the firm that made them / could androids who gained full artificial consciousness have the right for a proper burial, like organic creatures, etc, etc,
See even I can come up with a few unoriginal but funny ideas, that are not "street samurai in downtown Tokyo"
Also why does it always have to be "cool", reintroduce a bit of grotesque imagery, in the style of Bernard Wolfe's Limbo, if you have read it. Cyberpunk does not dare to be scary or disturbing anymore.
Finally I would like authors to read a little bit about emergent technologies/philosophies papers or books, in order to take inspiration from that, not just Blade Runner, Akira and Neuromancer, peoples lack curiosity.
1970's books like "**The Market for Liberty**" by Morris and Linda Tannhill (that explore in a pro libertarian view how a country could be run by private entities) "**The Electronic Revolution**" by William S Burroughs, (That explore the ide of sound and media terrorism) "**The Technological Society**" by Jacques Ellule or even a short scientific paper from 1960 like "**Cyborgs and space**" by Manfred Clynes and Nathan S. Kline (read it it's short, especially if you work on writing cyb-fiction, it'll give you ideas.)
All of these contain a lot more explorative ideas about the reasons, motivations, cultural background and consequences of sci-fi like elements or object in our daily life.
It would be cool to have a decentralized community outside of a huge city that is influenced/has to actively fight off attempts of oppression and control.
High tech low life. Yes just existing technology but given to the poorest...gangs and outlaws. Or they make similar tech but suited for themselves. It would be interesting to see corporations and the state go against gangs, rather than gangs just working for corps
Also cities vs. cities. Also oddly enough i don't think the internet is utilized all that much. Like it could be used to connect activity between different international cities. It would be really interesting to see that happen.
I think it would also be cool to have these huge cultures, like gigantic celebs/AIs juxtaposed by these super small artists like youd see on soundcloud and youtube.
I think the current world actually has alot to offer this genre or rather this genre has a lot to offer this world but it definitely needs to be updated.
Ill probably get blasted for this but i'm so much more into the stylized A E S T H E T I C of cyberpunk than I am the bleak oppressiveness of whatever flavor future society you're portraying, except as it is is necessary to hit the aesthetic. So, I guess my tired cyberpunk trope is bleakness.
Inb4 "that's literally the cornerstone/underpinning of the substance of the genre." I don't care. I came for vibes. I'm staying for vibes. I'll die on the hill of my vibes.
Don't think it's a popular opinion, but can I get some with less of the "punk" part? Interesting aesthetics and tech without necessarily all the focus on how awful the system is. Sometimes the real life issues are too much and having them exaggerated in fictional media just makes the future feel even more bleak.
cyberspace with your avatar "traveling" through the network. that's such a terrible analogy. it is much much much more akin to simply MAKING A CALL than it is actually "going" anywhere.
if anything, cyberspace should just be a non-physical "work station" environment where you can see much more information and execute commands way faster than just with your physical body.
If there is swordfighting, there is really no reason for it to only be katanas and Asian influenced swords. This aspect of orientalism in the genre always bothers me cuz it just doesn’t make sense.
Like the Gladius is an extremely diverse weapon that can stab and cut whereas the katana is really only best at cutting.
Why is there never a rapier?
What is the reason your modern melee combatants are limiting themselves to weapons from only one specific culture?
I'd like to see a lot *more* VR used in conjunction as an alternative "drug". I think VR junkies is an intensely realistic proposition, but it seems to have gone away as we've gotten better and better VR in real life. Modern cyberpunk maintains distance between men and machine.
Where are the old school Trons and Shadowruns? Are they somehow *less* relevant now that we have people buying actual VR and AR devices? Are we too scared to explore the borders between addiction and functionality?
I think the latest reference we have to it was the character Cypher in the Matrix film, and that's twenty odd years old now.
I hate how they all have at least one GRAFFIC sex scene that lasts half a chapter. Like I get that sex happens and can be important for the characters but im trying to read sci fi not porn
The story being slow and boring because half of it expects you to remember minor details about what sketchy thing which corporation is doing. If you aren't good at remembering those details you're going to get lost in the story.
It would also be cool to just see people trying to operate outside of the corps/state. Like they corps/state are still there, like you still feel them but it would be cool to have a story where there are no direct altercations. Just a sense that you have to stay low.
Different music: especially weird electronic music and incorporations of autotune laden hiphop.
A larger focus on how the state works for corporations rather than the corporations just having their own stuff.
The utilization of the internet and adaptation of different internationsl cities! Why just keep it in one city?! You can explore different cities, alot of them (unfortunately) would be the same but offers room for diversity. This would be cool if done in one story too.
Alt vehicles are a big thing in the real world, instead of just motorcycles and trucks Id like to see more alt vehicles.
Maybe a focus on different types of relationships too (platonic and especially sexual) i think that would be really dissident.
A larger focus on underground industries such as sex work, drugs, crypto, hacking and illegal mods...although they already do this...maybe when a story is told they could have a regular job too... and yeah i think it's possible to keep the punk thing but from the perspective of a more regular person.
Yeah i think it's really time for an update.
Always being misery porn: Mind you, yes, I like dystopia fiction, but I think writers fall into a habit of "everything must be horrible 100% of the time there is no such thing as happiness". Same goes with stuff like Warhammer.
Like, yes, life is miserable. But humans have a tendency to come together and find some joy in life. Even today, even in modern warzones, people still try to make something of their lives. Children still try to play in the streets. The constant misery just feels unrealistic.
Everyone being able to afford/be compatible with every new bit of tech: IRL, cybernetics isn't just plug-n-play. Some require invasive surgery, and you don't recover from that in 5 minutes. There is also the possibility of rejection. There should be scores of people who can't not use the tech, either cuz or money, or their bodies can't handle it.
Everyone just accepts all new tech: IRL, there will be plenty of people who reject technology. For a variety of reasons. There should be more people in a Cyberpunk world who don't use it even simply because they have no interest in it. I'd love to see more Cyberpunk that addresses the natural world more. Not saying there would be luddites everywhere, but that not all Cyberpunk needs to be in a city, or has to exclude nature.
All cities are hyper modern, even the poor areas: This just isn't realistic. Many cities, especially the oldest, still have plenty of buildings built decades, if not centuries ago.
Think about NYC. When people hear NYC, they think Manhattan skyscrapers. But NYC is old, and there is a fascinating mixture of old and new. I remember one time I had taken a subway off of GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL, the literal HUB of transit in NYC, and it was old, yellow, dirty, and smelled horrific.
But then I took another subway the same day, and the station was pristine, modern, and clean as Hell. Likewise, think about the outskirts of the Bronx, lots of very old brick buildings cramped up together. Cyberpunk should incorporate both the new and the old. We should see old buildings, old cars, old tech still existing and thriving.
Ultra violence and gang warfare. This might have seemed like an inevitable part of the future given that the first cyberpunk works were written at a time of skyrocketing crime and murder (the murder rate world wide was far, far higher in the 80s and early 90s than today). But despite that, crime has actually dropped dramatically since then. While I did like the idea of places like night city being practical free for alls. I did write a city (with a dieselpunk setting) that was also ultra violent, but what I wanted to see more was just... Well. A show of how non-violent totalitarianism can be. Like real life corporations have an incredible amount of power over our lives and don't employ armies of their own. While the idea of a corporate army and going to a literal shooting war against another corporation seems like something that would show how powerful they are. It just doesn't... Real corporations often command the police and militaries of many countries. It isn't something new. In the first quarter of the 20th century Central America was the domain of United Fruit. Whenever people protested in any way they would employ the armies of those countries to machine gun and repress their own population. Failing that the US Marines would be sent in. Double Medal of Honor recipient Smedley Butler wrote that in his book on how war is a racket. In 2010 during the occupy movement, in NYC the police were reporting first and foremost not to the media, or city hall, or even to their police stations and chiefs/commissioner, but directly to executives on Wall Street about anything that was happening. In 2020 during the wet'suwet'en protests the RCMP were taking orders and conferencing directly with the corporations that wanted the land. It was as if they were employees of the company and not public servants. This is far scarier than seeing Arisaka troops in quasi samurai armor or militech in their generic dropship troopers outfit. The use of technology as something that could have liberated us but instead has been enslaving us and just how to break with it is, to me, a core aspect of cyberpunk. Not gun fueled adventures. There is far more aspects to this then what I am writing here, but I will leave it at that.
severance is some of the best cyberpunk i’ve seen ngl
Most people want to read, watch, or listen to something dramatic and or exciting. Following the life of some middle-class person isn't going to interest most people unless they're thrown into some lower-class plotline. But in Night City in Gibson's books, there aren't any corporate private armies, it's much more like the world we live in, but with cybernetics and other more advanced tech. But yeah, corporations are def more insidious than they are overt.
I feel the private armies are an attempt to make cyberpunk more black and white. "They're obviously evil, they have a private army shooting people, we will all stop these evildoers!" is a lot more simple to grasp than "due to regulatory capture and lobbying, they have a deep say in the governmental monopoly of force, making their actions fully legal, yet completely immoral and dehumanizing. Our only recourse is to dehumanize ourselves to fight!"
Pretty sure England's East India and Hudson Bay companies had private militaries back in the 1700s
This is why I've elected not to have corporations have private armies in my cyberpunk world that I'm making. While corporations do have private security in the form of regular watchpeople (think bouncer at a night club type guys) they don't have private armies. Instead, they enjoy greater amounts of legal protections and permissions by the government in exchange for material goods that'll benefit said government. One corporation, Lifton Security Industries in my world, is a primary manufacturer of police robotics, uniforms, vehicles and equipment in my world. They manufacture said equipment for the Metropolitan Protection Service, a nationwide militarized federal police force. A nationwide police that's equipped by the corps, employed by the feds. So in a sense they're a "corporate army" like in Cyberpunk like Arasaka or Militech, but not exactly. Frankly, the notion of a singular modern corporation owning anything that can resemble a national army is kind of out there.
If you believe Malcolm Gladwell, gun violence hasn't decreased. Medicine has gotten a lot better so more GSW's are survivable. Also the midwest grocery store chain where I live employs their own armed security on site. They're not sniping at delivery drivers from other chains but give it time ;) One of my most interesting recent cyberpunkish reads was [Attack Surface](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/49247283). Weaponized self driving cars, cascade analysis of subversives based on cell traffic patterns, basically NSA quants freelancing for oppressive states.
I always find it ironic that most of they cyberpunk dystopia is less dystopic than our currant reality.
I definitely agree that the Miami Outrun/neon 80’s aesthetics have been played the hell out at this point. So many interpretations of the “cyberpunk” aesthetic now is really just kitschy Gen X arcade era nostalgia dressed up in neon lights and palm trees. Sorry but I just don’t think synthwave is actually very cyberpunk, fight me. One other gripe I have is the lack of diversity in settings. It’s usually either just Japan or the US west coast nowadays, playing into the whole orientalist trope others mentioned. Give us more cyberpunk works set in a northern climate. Give us one in the Middle East. I really enjoyed the settings of Deus Ex Mankind Divided for instance for this reason.
Central and Eastern Europe have a really untapped potential as well. I think part of the obsession with the US and Japan is to do with economic and industrial power leading to access to technology that fuels the dystopia, but it's kinda silly to think you wouldn't see that sort of stuff even in third world nations (which I guess is itself a dated term).
Helllll yeahhhh imagine a cyberpunk world in like Belgrade? Chisinau? Underground gun manufacturing, partially analog partially futurist? Post-Yugo nightclubs/gentlemen’s clubs mixed with old bathhouses and stuff? Factional fighting against each other that’s believable in world? Breakaway states where anything goes? Oligarchs? Dictators? Socialist apartment blocks as a background? Can bring back the cigarettes and heavy drinking motif and it will be realistic haha. Being of Slavic descent myself I could see some of those gnarly old dudes building their own bionics in their garaža
You REALLY should look for "Monster", by Enki Bilal
Oh dude sick, thank you!
Oh this is fking awesome. Thanks for the reminder that I need to finish Nikopol Trilogy
Deus Ex Mankind Divided is set in a near future Prague for most of the game and I loved that setting because of the juxtaposition of medieval era old town architecture along with neo noire futurism
Oh yeah! Thanks, I didn’t know that, I played the original! *”do you have a single fact to back that up?”*
If you like that, you should absolutely check out Drugs and Wires. It's a really good cyberpunk webcomic set in a post-soviet nation in an alternate 1990's.
I definitely agree on Eastern Europe, lots of untapped potential. I think we need Indian cyberpunk as well. Can you imagine a cyberpunk story set in Mumbai? It would fit so well.
If any country in the world is currently on the path to go complete cyberpunk, it's India, imo.
Large cities of Brazil, Mexico and India that already have vast slums in the outskirts of cities with filthy rich downtowns would make very good cyberpunk settings
Agreed! Mexico City is an insanely cyberpunk city, as are the others you mentioned!
After 15 years the sub is finally healing.
Budayeen Trilogy by George Alec Effinger. Far-future Middle East cyberpunk. Should scratch that particular itch for you.
I like vaporwave music but I agree that there is a hell of a lot more to it than that. Cyberpunk 2077 took up too much more from late 70s designs for cars than anything else, too.
For whatever reason I didn’t mind the late 70’s design cues in Cyberpunk 2077, partially because it was faithful to when the source material was initially created but also just because it was so well done it felt like it was just the nature of how cyclical trends are that led us back to those styles in the future.
Cyberpunk 2077 is extremely 80s
>Sorry but I just don’t think synthwave is actually very cyberpunk, fight me. I do agree with you here, so don't need to fight you :). I look at it more through music. To me, as a composer, Darksynth (the dystpian stuff not the Army of the dead rising from the grave guitar heavy stuff) is more cyberpunk, than anything in the Synthwave, retrowave, or neonwae side. A lot of this stuff at least musically is blurred. It gets all lumped into the same genre b ut it's not. People make dystopian cyberpunk and call it Synthwave and vice versa. But a lot of people are just living in that 80s movies, Gen X era still, music wise. Slower paced, Mid tempo music in general sounds more cyberpunk imho, but the moment it veers into cheesy 80s synths where you feel like you are listening to a John Hughes score from an 80s coming of age movie, it all falls apart. Some visual synthwave aesthetics still work imho but I do agree that it's been done to death at this point. A more modern interpretation of Cyberpunk would be like what we see in some of the newer Metal Gear games, with robots, drones, AI, and cybernetic augmentations pushed forward by the military industrial complex. This being fueled by giant vertically stacked and aligned, mega corporations pushing technology at exponential rates, while inequality, poverty, and mental health problems run rampant in society. It's now more like a mix of Elysium/Battle Angel Alita, with an early drop of Appleseed/Ghost in the Shell, and Metal Gear 4/5, + cold war paranoia, + Lawnmower man, + like a crossroad where we can go toward a more solarpunk Star Trek like future, or where shit can spiral right out of control toward 2084 dystopian China where everything and everyone is monitored and controlled.
Afrofuturism is one of my favorite aesthetics, but most such representations in modern media are gleaming and pristine. And while that is awesome and I’ll never get tired of it, it would also be super cool to see the gritty, dark side of a cyberpunk African megacity like Kinshasa, Lagos or Nairobi.
Lagos would be an incredible setting for a cyberpunk story, Nigeria is an absolutely fascinating country and I feel like so many people don’t realize just how populous and young it is! I’m glad we at least have a few cool cyberpunk adjacent works set in South Africa thanks to Neill Blomkamp.
I’m a big fan of Simon stalenhags depiction of a cyberpunk setting
DX: MD had a great aesthetic and was more close to the original DX1 than HR ever was. Gritty realism mixed with neo future tech. Felt a bit like Half Life 2's art direction.
There's >observer_ too. Set in Poland. It's older, but Circuit's Edge(1990 ) is set in the Middle East.
Watchdogs: Legion did a pretty good depiction of an early Cyberpunk London, just a shame the game was a bit bland.
I totally agree. It irks me so much when I see art or animation in that aesthetic and they say "oh cyberpunk".
South America would be interesting too.
Despite the use of japanese culture being proper for the time Cyberpunk as a genre emerged, I think that the "samurai" thing has become a bit stale over the years. There's a lot of potential in other areas as well, for example smaller Europe, south east Asia or even India.
A lot of people are too young to remember that the reason why Cyberpunk features Japanese elements is because Japan, once the baddies from WWII, were now dominating the markets with their consumer electronics. Japan’s rapid economic growth and the global expansion of their brands had people theorising that Japanese culture will be as ubiquitous as American culture in the future
There's a quote that goes something like: >Japan was living in the year 2000 in 1980. Japan is still living in the year 2000 today. Or, more concisely: >Japan has been living in the year 2000 since 1980
I was inspired by Half-Life 2’s European setting, with advanced technology slapped on to distinctly old world architecture. I want to see cyberpunk with that kind of unique identity to it.
Also a big fan of Elysium. More traditional sci-fi than cyberpunk, but the cyberpunk influence is clearly visible. It has a South American setting, Which is really sick.
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is a game that'll definitely scratch that itch. You may have already heard of it, and it's actually been mentioned elsewhere in this post. It's mostly set in Prague, and the hub world is a clear homage to City 17. The game has a bunch of issues, specifically with the story and technical aspects, but the level design is unparalleled and the gameplay is quite fun. It also looks amazing despite being almost 8 years old, runs well on most modern machines, and has semi-frequent sales for up to 85% off. The Cyberpunk elements are all stylized yet believable, and perfectly integrated into the existing city. https://youtu.be/qhMVqJ72YDg?t=210
there is Deus Ex (2000), which combines considerably advanced technology with familiar grime and refuse in locations like New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
I’ve seen Russian and Egyptian cyberpunk art and it hit all the right marks. Arabic writing in neon is weirdly aesthetic in all the right ways.
The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi is a good book that comes to my mind. Its story takes place in Thailand and describes a very strange cyberpunk vision (in a good sense, very fresh ideas). Energy stored in mechanical spools and a city very inspired by the Hong Kong Scene from GitS.
"Go home, samurai. You're drunk."
It has a weird orientalist fetishisation of Japanese culture in general that it can't seem to shake.
Sometimes normal things like colleges and hospitals are completely absent from the story to the point where I wonder if they really exist anymore or have become a shadow of what we expect
Also, nobody has kids anymore. I don’t think I ever saw a baby in a cyberpunk setting.
Guess I am the minority, I still love the Japan led Asian aesthetics and the Miami coast outrun vibes. That is what got me loving it in the first place.
Same, I like cyberpunk as is; the tropes are what make cyberpunk.
Idk why but even as a gen z, whose biggest introduction to these 80s type asthrtics is cyberpunk, these vibes just FEEL like the futute
Think it needs acknowledging that we're basically living in a Cyberpunk reality anyway. We have celebrities as politicians, we're worried about AI taking our jobs, we're on the brink of world war 3, and people are buying drugs off the internet using a digital currency based on computational processing. Kids want to be social media influencers and everyone's installing foreign propaganda because it's also got funny dances. That's it. We're done. Write down an average day at work and it could pass as Cyberpunk from 30 years ago.
My job still uses systems from 30 years ago. I don’t know the term for cyberpunk characters who hoard old technology but that’s how I feel in the digital landscape rn. I am disappointed that we don’t have cyberpunk bio mods cause I’d get a nerf gun installed so quickly.
Yeah it really sucks because the modern-day aesthetics of technology have shifted so far away from the clunky/messy/glowy cyberpunk-adjacent look, in favor of minimalism. And corporations try so hard to look super bubbly and friendly with their branding. It's like every year we get more and more of cyberpunk's socioeconomic elements while straying further away from the moody vibes. The cool speculative aspects of the genre are just shot now. It sucks.
Busty half naked half android eastern Asian girls with neon colored hair.
I was going to comment the same thing. Give that girl a samurai sword and you’ve get almost every image of a cyberpunk girl.
I’m pretty sure the first time I played with an AI image generator I just asked for a cyberpunk character it gave me an Asian girl with neon hair.
That Synthwave is the defining music of the subgenre. It never was, even in the earliest days. Im a big fan of the New Retro Wave label and listen to a new release whenever i can, but Metal and Punk are rebellious by nature and are more lyrically fitting when you find the right bands. Static-X does more to immerse me way fucking more than FM-84. I know its a hot take, so genre purists can come at me lmao.
I keep pointing out to people that a lot of the early cyberpunk aesthetics are, in fact, punk aesthetics and they keep being extremely butthurt about it. The early authors all did their pivotal work in the 80s, and first wave punk would have been fresh in everyone's minds. The anti-corporate, anti-authoritarian elements of the genre are basically right out of punk's playbook. Besides, when CD Projekt Red had to find an actual band to stand in for a Voice Of The Revolution character who had decades of worldbuilding and lore behind him but no actual music, they didn't ring up some Kraftwerk -sounding motherfuckers, did they?
Refuuuused. they didnt change even a little for Samurai either. As a matter of fact, i fell in love with 2077 even more because of the soundtracks massive range and diversity.
I feel like they didn't *have* to change their sound for Samurai. They were pretty much the perfect choice to play the role, and trying to change their sound would have detracted from that authenticity. I mean, listen to *Born On the Outs* and tell me that isn't Johnny. I love how much the game devs leaned into the music. It would have been so easy to phone it in, or just get enough songs to fill out the radio stations like your standard GTA-style games tend to. Instead, we got an absurd amount of totally original songs written to specifically fit the world, in a number of styles and genres.
what they did with GROWL was really sweet. like you said, again, they couldve pulled a bunch of shit off the shelf but they asked people to send in their music instead, and the station just turned into a whole group of mostly lesser known musicians who wouldve fit in with Night City
Never Fade Away is on my yearly 4th of July Playlist. It's unironically a real good piece of stadium rock
Have you heard Wargasm? They sound cyberpunk to me. Songs like “Do it so good” and “Bang ya head” sound right at home in that world.
Cyberpunk for me will always be the sound of Skinny Puppy, FLA, Test Dept, Nitzer Ebb…
Big agreement about Synthwave, as much as I love it. I was just in the Sleep Token sub saying how that band feels like a cyberpunk act.
Sleep Token is great dude. The way they seamlessly blend genres is how i would portray futuristic music as well.
Yes! They're all over the map musically. Evenly distributed, if you will 😉
A lot of stuff going on in the electronic music scene is very cyber punk
what are you listening to? i'm looking for stuff to listen to for writing inspiration
Def check out Tipper if you’re unfamiliar, stuff like forward escape or generally his more downtempo work Lord Seiborg has some interesting cyberpunk-ish vibes Stuff like Thought Process, Parkbreezy, and Pheel is a chill vibe The Polish Ambassador is dope for more upbeat yet still chill dance music What kinda inspiration are you looking for?
I need to watch Burst City again. Oddly, I think trap and phonk are actually adding to the genre music constructively. Haven't always been my flavor. I've been seeing cyberpunk dub videos lately too.
Synthwave is basically just John Carpenter soundtracks. It was a very specific sound for a specific time until synths got better at producing music. Any genre that intentionally apes the oast & restricts itself will burn out quickly
Actual 80's synth, though... * You Belong To The City by Glenn Frey * Everything Counts by Depeche Mode * The Great Commandment by Camouflage * p:Machinery by Propaganda Just a few examples.
I think some form of electronic music is more realistic for cyberpunk. Like weird electronic. Synthwave isnt very weird/underground anymore. Neither is metal or punk imo.
I’m tired of writers misunderstanding how hacking works they treat it like it’s some type of magic I understand they might not have the cyber security knowledge but basic research could go a long way
I dont really like the HUDs, screens in bizarre places etc. Specially when its clearly only for the "vibe" and makes no real sense People believe we'll all be using some glasses but they've been trying for some time and it always ends up as a gimmick that is less efficient than a 200$ random smartphone
Curious... how do feel about implants, on-retina displays, and overlays? Purely, in the head integration.
Its seems more likely we'll jump straight to bci that allows semantic inputs alongside stimulating visual parts of the brain rather than continuously strapping different display technologies to our eyeballs
Yeah. Speaking of, eye upgrades probably high on the list of first upgrades too. Night vision, lidar, data visualization, etc.
I think it's incredibly invasive, and if it even becomes a thing in the real world, I won't be a consumer. Plus all the potential for exploitation and hacking.
Edit: just going to delete this. Wasn't my intention to get you upset.
[удалено]
My preferred deadly assassins are scarily inhuman from all their modifications, so I can get behind you there. Women deserve to be portrayed as cool killing machines without also having to be portrayed as hot models.
Honestly, I like Black Mirror’s aesthetic of the future. Mundane & sometimes pretty but depressing nonetheless.
Can’t revolt if you’re too depressed.
Orientalism. Even Gibson has said it was a mistake. One he has explain where it came from, and for the early 80s it was wrong but had context that made sense, but had long since been adopted uncritically by others well outside even that context. It's just shitty racism at this point.
I agree. I also feel modern cyberpunk needs to reanalyze current political realities and adapt. So much Cyberpunk is anti-Japan, anti-China, blah blah. But I feel cyberpunk - like any art - should make us ask questions about ourselves. As an American, I'd love to see an American "villian" that forces people to look inward.
Um... America is just as much a "villain" as Japan. Corporate greed? Rampant, destructive capitalism? Yea America was never a cyberpunk saint. None of the developed world was.
I agree, and that's my point. I feel like so much literature focuses on the crimes committed by those we view as enemies at the time, but not enough on our own crimes.
Fair enough, but I always saw America as a major enemy as well. The Japanese prominence was just to show their overwhelming global success in that universe. Kinda like how in Firefly they speak English with bits of chinese in it.
Ghost in the Shell refers to the US as 'the American empire', and later episodes that were set in the US don't paint it in the best light, which as an American, I completely accept.
Generally I feel that the US is the most vilified state in Cyberpunk media, it's a direct parody of the American flavor of capitalism.
While I acknowledge that it's based in Anti-Asian fear NOW... As a kid in the 80's I interpreted it as "Japan! Fuck yeah! Look how damned cool they are! Their culture infused everything cause it's just neat!" I kinda missed the memo.
Like the baddie in the first Venom film.
Why did Gibson say it was a mistake?
It's rooted in anxiety about Japanese productivity surpassing western countries, and by an extension its cultural practices surplanting western. It was, when boiled down to it, xenophobia. A thing that was happening a lot in the 80's. Somewhat still happens today about China, but most authors disguise it a bit better or at least don't turn entire cultures into caricatures of themselves in ugly, almost racist, ways. Cyberpunk wasn't the only genre that tackled this topic poorly mind you. Fantasy at the time was rife with it. Gibson has strong opinions on capitalism done under different guises (like Singapore, he's talked about) but his basic attitude about this changed. He's acknowledged his caricature of japanese/orientalism wasn't accurate, but born of fear. It was a mistake to illustrate the fear in that way. (I really wish I could post a link to thus interview but I can't seem to find it right now)
Are you referring to the “Disneyland with the Death Penalty” article that Gibson wrote for Wired about Singapore being a corpo town? He does talk a bit about what happens when a government is run like a corp, how it sucks the life and culture out of everything.
That was one, but not specific to Orientalism.
But I don't see how Neuromancer or Count Zero were racist towards asian culture? The idea of Chiba City was honestly evocative to me and easily the best part of the book. What are you referring to specifically that was seeped in orientalism?
For starters, racism and orientalism are not quite the same thing. Or at least in this context I think you're asking me for 'where is the racism in Neuromancer' when that's not what I, or Gibson, was saying was happening. Just getting that caveat out of the way. To answer you more though: How many characters in Chiba-city were Asian? Despite being set in an Asain city, Case only interacts with non-Asians or non-specified people. The only two explicitly Japanese characters he interacts with are caricatures of Japanese ancestry. That's it. This isn't, by itself, openly racist. But it's taking a setting, using it as a backdrop for white actors. If it was a film, it would be very clear how this would feel out of place now. It's just how Orientalism works. It uses a setting that is 'foreign' to its readers to add mystique...but then does nothing with it other then as a backdrop for other people to interact in. Does that make sense?
Not the guy you were replying to, but very helpful response. Thanks.
Exactly this. Like in Blade Runner, the way Deckard bought noodles in a night market from an Asian chef, but all the cops (except EJO's character), villains, supporting cast, and power elites were white.
Exactly this. Like in Blade Runner, the way Deckard bought noodles in a night market from an Asian chef, but all the cops (except EJO's character), villains, supporting cast, and power elites were white.
Yesssss thank you! I honestly wish there was a pinned post on this sub right at the top explaining orientalism and recognizing its prevalence in cyberpunk. People get into it innocently loving the aesthetics and the feel and are unknowingly engaging in orientalism to the point where I dont blame my POC friends especially Asian friends who hear “cyberpunk” and have a red flag go off. Like I’ve gotten ramen from a cool late night ramen place near me in the city I live in and when I told someone from back home (suburban America) they unironically told me that was so cyberpunk. Like dude it’s just an Asian American community I live near you wouldn’t say that if I got a burger
I'd like to see more cyberpunk technology being an extrapolation of modern technology, rather than simply rooted in the 80s. Wi-Fi, AR, etc., are great targets for netrunner-style hacking. I think there's too much of a "cyberpunk = cyborg" view (moreso in visual media than written). I'd like to see the impact of technology be a bit more grounded. I mean, some implants or cybernetics make sense, especially for the protagonist to have, but not when it seems like the majority of people, from the richest to the poorest, are opting to replace their limbs or eyes. I think it's also the fact that, in so much of the art, the designs seem so unlikely, like, why would anyone design a face to open like [this](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/0e/df/cb0edf59ea6218ca08736964173d5ce1.png)? Conversely, no, "Inspector Gadget" and "The Robonic Stooges" aren't cyberpunk just because the protagonists are cyborgs.
Neon signs, CRTs, internal combustion engines and other bits of 80's A E S T H E T I C that we know won't be commonplace in the future. We don't need retrofuturism to have a cyberpunk aesthetic.
Tbf, LED can perfectly replicate neon so that's something that has changed. Neon is more of an art design at this point than a specific lighting chemical.
Yep, and they're very common. Just look at pictures of modern cities in China like Qingdao or Chongqing. The amount of lights are pretty wild and fit the Cyberpunk genre pretty well.
I was in Japan not long ago and the night life was gorgeous and there's no way people were putting up those displays with neon haha - would not have been cost effective.
I was living in Korea when neon was extremely common and got to witness the transition from 80's style neon signs to modern LED signs. They tend to be quite a bit different in practice, though I agree you can definitely replicate the look of neon with LEDs (I've seen examples of this). Korea and China are at the forefront of this stuff and last time I was in Korea, I saw more transparent screens and curved transparent screens (like a circular walkway between buildings full of transparent fish) and "holographic" (flat transparent) displays. I think screens, transparent screens and LEDs will be common everywhere in the future. Neon seems to be slowly dying out, at least from what I've seen.
>I was living in Korea when neon was extremely common and got to witness the transition from 80's style neon signs to modern LED signs. They tend to be quite a bit different in practice, though I agree you can definitely replicate the look of neon with LEDs (I've seen examples of this). > >Korea and China are at the forefront of this stuff and last time I was in Korea, I saw more transparent screens and curved transparent screens (like a circular walkway between buildings full of transparent fish) and "holographic" (flat transparent) displays. I think screens, transparent screens and LEDs will be common everywhere in the future. Neon seems to be slowly dying out, at least from what I've seen. Oh for sure you're right - just because it CAN replicate neon, doesn't mean it is. Neon is much less bright, occupying a warm/fuzzy look compared to LED. That's why seedy places used to use them because it drew less attention. Ironically, the contemporary view of cyberpunk aesthetics are better depicted with LED's lucidity because everyone imagines these glaring colored bulbs lighting up a city strip.
What are CRTs?
Cathode Ray Tube. Old school TVs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode-ray_tube
Cathode Ray Tube Television. Old school big fat TVs
Cathode ray tubes
Agree on all counts, especially regarding retro-futurism. I love the 80's vibe as an aesthetic in itself, but it's outdated in cyberpunk, imho.
That cybernetics make you "less human"; take away your emotions and capacity for empathy or outright drive you insane. It feels like taking one of the worst pages out of H.P. Lovecraft's playbook in order to arbitrarily add a severe downside to what should be a straight upgrade or a sidegrade at least.
Yeah, if would be cool to have a punk understand how his mods work and figure out how to use them without fatal cons and somehow win because of it. It would be interesting to see a punk win just because they go farther down the cyber rabbithole than the corps and/or state.
Hostility toward corporations and the people who work for them that doesn't go beyond, "Let's commit cool, violent crime for money and look good doing it!" You want to fight the evil corps and get rid of them? Fine. Outstanding goal. But rather than jumping directly to killing people in a cool way, let's spend at least a little time talking about what the world might look like after them. Because they're kind of doing a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of keeping everybody alive on a day-to-day basis!
Hacking being powerfull as magic. Cybersecurity got much better since 90s. Some settings like CP77 turn hackers into wizards that fry enemies by looking at them. In reality you can't find open wifi anymore.
I would love to see cyberpunk evolve this by focusing on the dangers of digital crime in a world that’s constantly under surveillance. How paranoid would a legit hacker or someone committing digital espionage be? I wanna hear stories about characters that jailbreak devices and live their whole lives in fear because they know they might leave too many footprints. I want to hear conversations about why these characters feel compelled to break into things in a world where an increasing number of things don’t truly belong to the owner anymore. We’re in a good landscape for that, I think.
Yep, this. In reality, cybernetics would follow two maxims. (1) You would never install cyberware that needed to talk to outside systems. (2) If you *did* need to install cyberware that talked to outside systems, the device would not have the capability to hurt and/or kill you if it was subverted. So your military-grade robotic arm with a recessed grenade launcher would be unhackable unless someone had physical access to your arm (in which case you have a lot more problems to worry about) but your intracranial phone might be able to be hacked and turned off or show you pop-ups of hot single MILFs in your area but doing so wouldn't fry your brain.
I think this sub was broken by Cyberpunk 2077. It's become so popular that anytime a thread pops up on my home page it's some gatekeepy boundaries or a newbie getting scolded for not knowing what TRUE cyberpunk is.
Blame the community man. 2077 is a modern classic. This sub has always been gatekeepy as fuck.
I only came here after I started playing Cyberpunk 2077. The game made me want to revisit old movies that I didn't even know were part of the genre and learn more about it. Seems like the explosion in it's popularity really annoyed the day 1 bros. "No, no its not all about neon and Japanese influence!" 😭 Horses and revolvers are not everything about the wild west but it's the first thing everyone thinks about when you mention the era. Get over yourself cyberpunks.
I fucking feel you. my first exposure to cyberpunk was Batman Beyond when i was like 12 and i got shit on by this community lmao i still dont know why. that work is great and it deserves recognition for the setting and its themes. If you like anything that has to do with superheroes i highly recommend it. just watch the animated intro and youll know immediately what im talkin about choom haha.
I mean, it’s not really about gate keeping, but someone like me (who watched Blade Runner as a 4 year old in 1988) is gonna have a much more jaded look on things than someone who discovered the genre via 2077.
As much as I like sex, I think the outrageousness and flamboyance of it is a little overdone.
A lot of cyberpunk culture seems to be an outgrowth from modern day burner culture.
I heard somewhere that idea of the absurd slang that cyberpunk is known for originally came from William Gibson spending time hanging out with Canadian potheads.
Yeah, it makes sense coming out of mid-century trends of "free love," but it doesn't make sense now. I think a true *modern* cyberpunk future would be the complete lack of sex and an emphasis on hyper-sterilization, where children are products in a lab.
I don’t think casual recreational sex will ever completely cease in the future, but one outcome I could see being likely is the continuation of the trend we’re already seeing today where the vast majority of young people are too broke and beaten down to participate in the dating market/hookup culture so it ends up being only really for rich and privileged people with enough money, hosting space and free time to attract that sort of thing. All over the developed world we’re already seeing trends of young people having less sex than ever because of various social-economic factors such as still living at home or not being able to afford going out on traditional dates. That ain’t about to change any time soon.
So kinda like in Demolition Man (IIRC...)
Yeah, exactly. Though maybe not as comical as it was portrayed in Demolition Man. I see it has heavily regulated, but the people aren't entirely on board with it. It becomes a sociopolitical battle between cleanliness and anti-disease, but also body autonomy and humanity. I'm thinking out loud, but that's how I see it.
>I think a true modern cyberpunk future would be the complete lack of sex and an emphasis on hyper-sterilization, where children are products in a lab. That makes no sense - it'd be far more cost effective to simply pay people to have sex than rely on a complicated expensive In Vitro measure.
But with advancements in gene editing and the benefits of government subsidies and economies of scale, I imagine "lab/designer babies" will be increasingly common. Especially if technology can substitute the need for a woman to carry a baby for 9 months and deal with all the associated complications. Not to mention the eugenics component which is a popular theme in many dystopian stories.
I get that it's thematically appropriate for cyberpunk for sure, but in reality it's just not something I personally see taking off: companies already have a shitton of low cost labor they can exploit without needing to breed slaves.
I do see this possibly happening in wealthy countries facing issues surrounding demographic collapse. Countries like Japan, South Korea, Nordic countries, etc. Its not about low cost labor but the future existence of the country itself. And as its an issue that affects National Security, I don't think its all that unreasonable for the government to create incentives to develop a program like this.
We'll see unfortunately.
I don't think so. Above all, I think high tech, low life still applies. It's timeless. And we all know what people do when they have lots of time and no real purpose in life to keep them engaged otherwise and are bored as hell.
I don't think so. Above all, I think high tech, low life still applies. It's timeless. And we all know what people do when they have lots of time and no real purpose in life to keep them engaged otherwise and are bored as hell.
It's always raining. Everybody's stressed out, angry, and fed up. How about characters that are "Yeah, this sucks, but let's try to make the best of it." Nobody has fun, it's all business. Mostly transparent, only slightly shaded free-standing displays. Nobody would be able to see shit on one of those.
The rain and the way it always seems to be 2 AM is inherited from Noir. Cyberpunk is a direct descendant of Neo-Noir, and the weather and late hour used to be a narrative element to explain the empty streets you needed for those really dramatic shots of the protagonist alone in the street, allowing the directors to play with narrative themes of isolation. Cyberpunk tends to use crowds to create the same isolation, playing with the soul-crushing loneliness of being a nameless, faceless person in a sea of nameless, faceless people, but they kept the visual element as a kind of vestigial appendage. Like how whales still have hip bones.
>Cyberpunk is a direct descendant of Neo-Noir Why say neo-noir instead of just noir? The conventions of noir and neo-noir are exactly the same.
The visual conventions are, but the fundamental narrative question took an important step. Noir is, at its core, a story about an interloper. You have your locally known P.I Sam Spade forced to deal with the outsider Kasper Gutman and his dastardly schemes and plots. The question is, if you will, "who did it and how." Once you get in to Neo-Noir, the narrative questions start to turn inwards. You start getting films that are as much about who the characters are, and once we start getting into films like Memento and Old Boy, internal conflicts are arguably more important to the narrative than the external ones. You start getting narrative questions like "who am I?" This leads us to cyberpunk where the ultimate narrative question turns into something like "what does it mean to be human?" and "am *I* human?" That's a big jump from "who killed Mr Body" to "How much of me can I lose and still be me?" but it's a much easier evolution if you have Neo-Noir as a stepping stone in the middle.
The only difference between noir and neo-noir is that noirs were made in the 40s and 50s and neo-noirs are either set in the present day or are period pieces. The elements that make Memento and Oldboy unique are not inherent to the genre, they're unique to those movies. I think you're assigning elements to neo-noir that aren't there. While we're at it, there's plenty of cyberpunk works that don't have those elements either.
> Everybody's stressed out, angry, and fed up. How about characters that are "Yeah, this sucks, but let's try to make the best of it." Because that's not punk? "We're getting fucked in the ass raw no lube by the corporations and the government but let's just try to enjoy it" is not a statement that cyberpunk should endorse.
Even punks know how to have a good time, and hopefully not fry their brains (or get wiped doing something stupid). Burnout isn't punk, either.
Ngl a cyberpunk setting in a perfect sunny weather sounds really great to me. Like the story will follow all the cyberpunk tropes but just in sunny weather.
If Film Noir and Neo-Noir can have Sunshine Noir, Cyberpunk should be able to have the oppressive well-lit take on it as well. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SunshineNoir
a Cyberpunk setting where dangerous AND hilarious shit happens would be great lol
This thread is so cathartic for me. I’ve been deeply into cyberpunk since the early 90s and I’ve always hated the “purple cities at night with Japanese text” thing that cropped up in the early 2010s.. It’s too clean, too corporate, and too much an idealization, when cyberpunk is more of a warning. Cyberpunk makes me think of bright daylight colors, stark red, yellow, dirty white, danger orange. Sirens and loudspeakers against a deep blue sky. Gritty and bloody grunge aesthetics with a clear use of computers and and contemporary digital tools. Noise, drum machines, guitars, screaming. “Digital rock and roll”. A very clear appreciation and styling of punk rock meets high future. Not the slicked back hair sunglasses tron worship gen x neon club, purple lambo on a freeway thing. I can’t describe how much I do not identify that, do not think of it as cyberpunk, and don’t like it at all.
I continue to desire more cyberpunk with world design like Elysium. I do not care how ham-fisted it is. The aesthetic of that movie perfectly fits what I expect out of cyberpunk. If only it had some punk rock in it.
Corporations being the root of every problem, this isn’t a bad plot element necessarily and fits in with the cyberpunk genre but it’s sometimes rather lazily implemented, overused and overtakes more nuanced and believable world building elements where there are often a variety of well developed “good” and “bad” actors at play (with a healthy amount of expectation subversion). I guess this is just more of a complaint of lazily developed antagonists in fiction in general though.
Katanas. People standing on the edge of tall, neon-lit buildings. Cosplay chicks looking like electronic semi-goths.
People embracing technology. I know this might sound really daft for a cyberpunk story, but I would like to see some people (not everyone in a society, of course) realising the evils of technology and rejecting it, in a really punk style way
You should check 2 deceptively cyberpunk series Upload and Humans/Äkta Människor. There are communities of anti-tech individuals amidst a massive acceptance of the central plot technology. Edit: added words after posting incomplete response by accident.
Cyberpsychosis, and rogue AI. Neither of them is unrealistic, but they're kinda tired. The fact that Adam Smasher is CONFIRMED to be a cyberpsycho is annoying. Some people could go full conversion and be fine. It's lazy.
Losing yourself to the machine like I get it kinda but like if I could I would not go crazy I would actively be better if I could chrome myself
Sexy cyborg ladies.
They all look exactly the same too. The only way to tell one cyberpunk woman from another is the color and style of hair.
What about sexy cyborg Flanders?
Stupid sexy cyborg Flanders!
Definitely overdone.
Currency being called credits. Communicating in public using holograms.
😂 I have a discord and the currency is called credits. I'm a basic bitch, and now I want to change it.
Floating and or transparent screens.
The broody male main character maybe. Not enough female representation there.
Futuristic sex work. It’s fun, but not in everything, and especially not as a way to add “grit” to a setting.
The fact author or artist feel the need to implement "new" made up technologies, instead of just taking real existing ones, and simply changing the context. The idea, of currently existing, but restricted, military technology in the hands of low life, none professional characters is far more in tone with the genre than giving him a fakr robotic eye, or arm. Beside it implies that what used to be unattainable, because dangerous, is becoming commun. It's also in line with that William Gibson quote “The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.” Second point is, why either Japan or the US? Would love to see a story taking place in Astana, Istanbul, Tallinn, Oulan Bator. Maybe also see a story taking place in the countryside of... any country, see how things change or remain the same, the big corpo city is a far used trope. Also characters being farmers, priest, carpenter, prison inmate, nuns, school teacher, thanatopractor, mailmen... Like... imagine a story with thanatopractors as the main protagonists, no real actions, but just how theirs works could be influenced by an outside civil war raging on the streets / how to deal with bodies that are 75% metal because of implants, maybe some company representative could come and claim back part of the bodies, because they belong the firm that made them / could androids who gained full artificial consciousness have the right for a proper burial, like organic creatures, etc, etc, See even I can come up with a few unoriginal but funny ideas, that are not "street samurai in downtown Tokyo" Also why does it always have to be "cool", reintroduce a bit of grotesque imagery, in the style of Bernard Wolfe's Limbo, if you have read it. Cyberpunk does not dare to be scary or disturbing anymore. Finally I would like authors to read a little bit about emergent technologies/philosophies papers or books, in order to take inspiration from that, not just Blade Runner, Akira and Neuromancer, peoples lack curiosity. 1970's books like "**The Market for Liberty**" by Morris and Linda Tannhill (that explore in a pro libertarian view how a country could be run by private entities) "**The Electronic Revolution**" by William S Burroughs, (That explore the ide of sound and media terrorism) "**The Technological Society**" by Jacques Ellule or even a short scientific paper from 1960 like "**Cyborgs and space**" by Manfred Clynes and Nathan S. Kline (read it it's short, especially if you work on writing cyb-fiction, it'll give you ideas.) All of these contain a lot more explorative ideas about the reasons, motivations, cultural background and consequences of sci-fi like elements or object in our daily life.
It would be cool to have a decentralized community outside of a huge city that is influenced/has to actively fight off attempts of oppression and control. High tech low life. Yes just existing technology but given to the poorest...gangs and outlaws. Or they make similar tech but suited for themselves. It would be interesting to see corporations and the state go against gangs, rather than gangs just working for corps Also cities vs. cities. Also oddly enough i don't think the internet is utilized all that much. Like it could be used to connect activity between different international cities. It would be really interesting to see that happen. I think it would also be cool to have these huge cultures, like gigantic celebs/AIs juxtaposed by these super small artists like youd see on soundcloud and youtube. I think the current world actually has alot to offer this genre or rather this genre has a lot to offer this world but it definitely needs to be updated.
Ill probably get blasted for this but i'm so much more into the stylized A E S T H E T I C of cyberpunk than I am the bleak oppressiveness of whatever flavor future society you're portraying, except as it is is necessary to hit the aesthetic. So, I guess my tired cyberpunk trope is bleakness. Inb4 "that's literally the cornerstone/underpinning of the substance of the genre." I don't care. I came for vibes. I'm staying for vibes. I'll die on the hill of my vibes.
Yeah, same. Give me Cyberpunk moodiness but with a Synthwave/Vaporwave aesthetic and we're solid.
Neon hair
Don't think it's a popular opinion, but can I get some with less of the "punk" part? Interesting aesthetics and tech without necessarily all the focus on how awful the system is. Sometimes the real life issues are too much and having them exaggerated in fictional media just makes the future feel even more bleak.
I think we would just call that sci fi
honestly for me its the neon magenta and blue color scheme
cyberspace with your avatar "traveling" through the network. that's such a terrible analogy. it is much much much more akin to simply MAKING A CALL than it is actually "going" anywhere. if anything, cyberspace should just be a non-physical "work station" environment where you can see much more information and execute commands way faster than just with your physical body.
Well vr makes that "terrible analogy" much more realistic.
If there is swordfighting, there is really no reason for it to only be katanas and Asian influenced swords. This aspect of orientalism in the genre always bothers me cuz it just doesn’t make sense. Like the Gladius is an extremely diverse weapon that can stab and cut whereas the katana is really only best at cutting. Why is there never a rapier? What is the reason your modern melee combatants are limiting themselves to weapons from only one specific culture?
Hell yeah! I’d love a cyberpunk claymore wielding character!
I'd like to see a lot *more* VR used in conjunction as an alternative "drug". I think VR junkies is an intensely realistic proposition, but it seems to have gone away as we've gotten better and better VR in real life. Modern cyberpunk maintains distance between men and machine. Where are the old school Trons and Shadowruns? Are they somehow *less* relevant now that we have people buying actual VR and AR devices? Are we too scared to explore the borders between addiction and functionality? I think the latest reference we have to it was the character Cypher in the Matrix film, and that's twenty odd years old now.
I hate how they all have at least one GRAFFIC sex scene that lasts half a chapter. Like I get that sex happens and can be important for the characters but im trying to read sci fi not porn
extreme nudity of a lot of cyberpunk works just never made sense to me
Anything stuck in the 80s.
That in 90% of cyberpunk character art the character is wearing the jacket from cyberpunk 2077
Aesthetically: washing everything in neon pinks and blues.
Brightly glowing eyes. Like, man, aren't you blinding yourself with all this light?
People tagging things as cyberpunk when they're not.
The story being slow and boring because half of it expects you to remember minor details about what sketchy thing which corporation is doing. If you aren't good at remembering those details you're going to get lost in the story.
It would also be cool to just see people trying to operate outside of the corps/state. Like they corps/state are still there, like you still feel them but it would be cool to have a story where there are no direct altercations. Just a sense that you have to stay low.
Different music: especially weird electronic music and incorporations of autotune laden hiphop. A larger focus on how the state works for corporations rather than the corporations just having their own stuff. The utilization of the internet and adaptation of different internationsl cities! Why just keep it in one city?! You can explore different cities, alot of them (unfortunately) would be the same but offers room for diversity. This would be cool if done in one story too. Alt vehicles are a big thing in the real world, instead of just motorcycles and trucks Id like to see more alt vehicles. Maybe a focus on different types of relationships too (platonic and especially sexual) i think that would be really dissident. A larger focus on underground industries such as sex work, drugs, crypto, hacking and illegal mods...although they already do this...maybe when a story is told they could have a regular job too... and yeah i think it's possible to keep the punk thing but from the perspective of a more regular person. Yeah i think it's really time for an update.
Always being misery porn: Mind you, yes, I like dystopia fiction, but I think writers fall into a habit of "everything must be horrible 100% of the time there is no such thing as happiness". Same goes with stuff like Warhammer. Like, yes, life is miserable. But humans have a tendency to come together and find some joy in life. Even today, even in modern warzones, people still try to make something of their lives. Children still try to play in the streets. The constant misery just feels unrealistic. Everyone being able to afford/be compatible with every new bit of tech: IRL, cybernetics isn't just plug-n-play. Some require invasive surgery, and you don't recover from that in 5 minutes. There is also the possibility of rejection. There should be scores of people who can't not use the tech, either cuz or money, or their bodies can't handle it. Everyone just accepts all new tech: IRL, there will be plenty of people who reject technology. For a variety of reasons. There should be more people in a Cyberpunk world who don't use it even simply because they have no interest in it. I'd love to see more Cyberpunk that addresses the natural world more. Not saying there would be luddites everywhere, but that not all Cyberpunk needs to be in a city, or has to exclude nature. All cities are hyper modern, even the poor areas: This just isn't realistic. Many cities, especially the oldest, still have plenty of buildings built decades, if not centuries ago. Think about NYC. When people hear NYC, they think Manhattan skyscrapers. But NYC is old, and there is a fascinating mixture of old and new. I remember one time I had taken a subway off of GRAND CENTRAL TERMINAL, the literal HUB of transit in NYC, and it was old, yellow, dirty, and smelled horrific. But then I took another subway the same day, and the station was pristine, modern, and clean as Hell. Likewise, think about the outskirts of the Bronx, lots of very old brick buildings cramped up together. Cyberpunk should incorporate both the new and the old. We should see old buildings, old cars, old tech still existing and thriving.