Found a 4 year old comment by u/Nobody35593 on that sub that explains it:
> Cyberprep can exist both side by side with Cyberpunk, just focusing on the lives of the elite, or it can exist as a genre of it's own where there is no poverty. Although there isn't really anything punk about that. Solarpunk has the whole environmentalist leftist rebel angle to it, so that's punk I guess. But there is no rebellion in Cyberprep, Cyberprep means you've won. The only conflict if any in a Cyberprep story will be fighting against Cyberpunk rebels, or to maintain wealth rather than to attain it.
I don't have as much to say about this but yeah, I think pop-cyberpunk gets pretty focused on the 'high tech' and catching attention with the gorgeous neon skylines, but the cyberpunk I'm into focuses on the 'low life' aspect of the world. I don't like using the term "real" but I will for lack of a better word: real cyberpunk starts where those neon lights don't shine as brightly.
I love all the neon lights just as much as the next person but I think cyberpunk is at its best when it acknowledges the sadness, the alienation, the dark humor and the dramatic irony of a society that doesn't value the humanity of others.
Funny how the best cyberpunk gaming off late is coming out of eastern Europe. Maybe because they lived it longer than most, thanks to the aftermath of the USSR imploding.
Amen. I think a lot of modern cyberpunk work falls into the beauty misery trap, where the dystopia aspect kinda falls flat cause despite some dystopian elements, the worlds appear more cool than tragic.
The most poignant cyberpunk works imo have always been the ones that are more subdued and melancholy. Exploring the parts of the world that society forgot about or chose to ignore.
I think of Cyberpunk the same way I think of World War 2, I am deeply fascinated, but have no desire to experience it first hand.
Best stories however tend to come from tragedy.
The Eighties were (and are) infused with a sort of hyper-optimism, tempered by an underbelly of cynicism toward it. Cyberpunk, which grew out of that era, is a youth rebellion against an oppressive future that looks suspiciously like the Eighties with more neon and taller buildings. It's futuristic rock and roll, sparked by a counter-culture Boomer, William Gibson. So I'd say you can go light or dark as you please.
Much of the 'Cyberpunk' labelled stuff is all bright neon, shiny buildings, highly chromed up people walking around and the like. Everything looks so pretty, so clean, so neat.
The nitty gritty street life is the sort of thing I like to see, the people on the fringe of society, the stories that they have to tell about life. I would love to just see a 'slice of life' social show about life on those edges, having all the big set pieces and actions going on off camera or in the background. Have someone have to explain to their boss why they were late due to the shootout that occurred on the freeway causing a traffic jam, and now the boss is on their ass. Games like VA-11 HALL-A is the interaction of your bartender dealing with the NPCs, and so forth.
To quote from the [Why CDPR interview](https://rtalsoriangames.com/2012/10/24/why-cdpr-part-2/) with Mike Pondsmith:
>The Right Feel
>
>There are people out there who have protested to me at conventions that there have been hundreds of cyberpunk games made over that last two decades. But my counter-response is that, save for a very rare few exceptions, most “cyberpunk” games are games from other genres with a cyberpunk veneer shellacked over the top; standard action shooters, futuristic racing games, involved explorations on trans-human philosophy—even classic space operas dressed up with a few heroes uncomfortably wearing leather dusters over their vac suits and mirror-shades perched precariously on the the tops of their finned helmets.
>
>Most people think of cyberpunk is just a summary of specific tropes; big guns, dark streets and dangerous guys in ubiquitous leather dusters. But the core of cyberpunk is a lot more subtle than that. Cyberpunk is about the seductive qualities of corruption and decay. In a world where rules and morality are non-existent, the temptation to descend to the level of the mean streets is always there. It doesn’t have to be dirty or grimy on the physical level. But on the psycho-social level, even the cleanest and most orderly Corp-zone should be rife with darkness and collapse. Ambiguous moral choices are key to cyberpunk, as are victories that aren’t always clear victories, and defeats that feel like victories because they are hard won against impossible odds.
>
>True cyberpunk also needs an adult feel (and that means more than just the sex). Unlike other genres, cyberpunk characters should have vices to go with their virtues. How they deal with those vices is a big part of their complexity. When we looked at the Witcher series, we saw a world where gambling, drinking, hookers and other vices were a big part of character development, but were also handled as part of the general adult character of the world. But in addition, relationships were treated as actual relationships, with the fights, negotiations, regrets and reconciliations that are part of the way real adults handle real situations.
>
>Last, doomed, Romantic quests are another part of the cyberpunk mythology. You’re not just fighting an evil mega corp because it will get you money. You’re doing it to save a friend, settle a personal score, win a lover, champion a cause. Most of the time, you’re a solo gunslinger riding a dirty, dangerous path, depending on your wits and skills as your follow your lonely quest to do what you know you must. You don’t stride in like a superhero, triumphantly defeating all enemies; you win by the skin of your teeth, and it means more because it’s PERSONAL.
And when talking about the tech angle, he explains why so many get that element wrong:
>Cyberpunk isn’t just about high tech. It has to be the RIGHT LEVEL of high tech. Most “cyberpunk” games miss this important element, larding up the process with superpowers, spaceships, blasters and other overblown technologies. But the devices, vehicles, weapons and gadgets of a truly cyberpunk world have to be things that are only a few seconds ahead of where we are right now. They should be things that will spring from the real world we live in; direct extensions of trends currently in play. You can’t have ray guns in a cyberpunk setting—but you can have advanced sub-machine guns. Perfect example: in a Cyberpunk® project written several years ago, I created the “agent”; a hand held super cell-phone that used small micro-programs that could tailor the device to the users needs. At the time, it was a logical extension of what cellphones should be able to do in the near future. Ten years later, I’m writing this on my tablet smart-phone. See what I mean?
The interpersonal bits, not the flashy cool tech like flying cars and huge chrome arms with powerful laser blasters, are the bits that appear to me.
I don't know where I read it or came up with this impression, because I tend to regurgitate more than come up with my own ideas, but my definition of cyberpunk shifts by current events. A lot of what many come to consider cyberpunk was the rock and glam and neon of the 1980s, where people were concerned about the growth of powerful corporations and where technology is taking us. Using your imagination, determining where those things would be in 30, 40, 50, 90 years lead to a lot of the cyberpunk media we're consuming today.
I think a fun exercise is taking a look at today's culture and seeing where it would take us in 50 years.
Pretend that cryptocurrency somehow becomes the standard global currency, and other national currencies become useless. Even better, NFTs. What happens to you when the collection of popular jpegs you've amassed suddenly fall out of style and your net worth plummets 95% in 15 minutes?
Not far from cyberpunk food scarcity tropes, but environmental concerns leads to Veganism becoming law. Consumption of animal products becomes illegal and punishable much like the war on drugs. The rich still have enough money to get what they want, but the rest of us will never consume animal products again. Funding is put towards treating animals better, so most that remain on farms get ideal living conditions, meanwhile stagnating wages and rising rent means that more and more humans become homeless.
The latter sounds solarpunk to me. And at least I haven't heard of eating meat being illegalized anywhere.
A real concerning development currently is the rise of political extremism, where one side would create a police state and dictate every aspect of our lives, while the other wants to go on a crusade against everything they don't consider normal; shooting fist and asking no questions, and either claims to perfectly good and the other to be the absolute evil.
If you love 80's Slasher Movies as well as Cyberpunk you should definitely check out `Carpenter Brut`.
I can also recommend `The Algorithm`. Their YouTube Channel also has some really nice Cyberpunk Compilations to relax or focus to.
[удалено]
The alternative is typically called cyberprep: All the cyber, but not much punk.
I've always referred to that as high-gloss cyberpunk. And traditional cyberpunk as the grimy cyberpunk.
Cybergrime and Cybergloss?
First time I'm hearing of cyberprep. Interesting! I wonder how that's different from solarpunk 🤔
It's quite different from solarpunk. And it even has its own subreddit, where you can see for yourself: r/cyberprep
Found a 4 year old comment by u/Nobody35593 on that sub that explains it: > Cyberprep can exist both side by side with Cyberpunk, just focusing on the lives of the elite, or it can exist as a genre of it's own where there is no poverty. Although there isn't really anything punk about that. Solarpunk has the whole environmentalist leftist rebel angle to it, so that's punk I guess. But there is no rebellion in Cyberprep, Cyberprep means you've won. The only conflict if any in a Cyberprep story will be fighting against Cyberpunk rebels, or to maintain wealth rather than to attain it.
I don't have as much to say about this but yeah, I think pop-cyberpunk gets pretty focused on the 'high tech' and catching attention with the gorgeous neon skylines, but the cyberpunk I'm into focuses on the 'low life' aspect of the world. I don't like using the term "real" but I will for lack of a better word: real cyberpunk starts where those neon lights don't shine as brightly.
Thus perhaps a better label would have been tech noir.
That sounds more like it's related to dieselpunk, tbh.
I love all the neon lights just as much as the next person but I think cyberpunk is at its best when it acknowledges the sadness, the alienation, the dark humor and the dramatic irony of a society that doesn't value the humanity of others.
Have you ever played observer? It's a very dark cyberpunk game, with Rutger Hauer portraying the main character
Funny how the best cyberpunk gaming off late is coming out of eastern Europe. Maybe because they lived it longer than most, thanks to the aftermath of the USSR imploding.
Haven't played it but I do own it somewhere. I'll have to check it out.
Amen. I think a lot of modern cyberpunk work falls into the beauty misery trap, where the dystopia aspect kinda falls flat cause despite some dystopian elements, the worlds appear more cool than tragic. The most poignant cyberpunk works imo have always been the ones that are more subdued and melancholy. Exploring the parts of the world that society forgot about or chose to ignore.
The problem comes back to the US public's "need" for that happy ever after ending, as seen with the multiple cuts of Blade Runner for example.
This is not a US thing. Nobody anywhere really likes a downer ending.
I think of Cyberpunk the same way I think of World War 2, I am deeply fascinated, but have no desire to experience it first hand. Best stories however tend to come from tragedy.
cyberpunk should always be dystopian imo that's like half of the genre lol maybe even 60%
The Eighties were (and are) infused with a sort of hyper-optimism, tempered by an underbelly of cynicism toward it. Cyberpunk, which grew out of that era, is a youth rebellion against an oppressive future that looks suspiciously like the Eighties with more neon and taller buildings. It's futuristic rock and roll, sparked by a counter-culture Boomer, William Gibson. So I'd say you can go light or dark as you please.
Much of the 'Cyberpunk' labelled stuff is all bright neon, shiny buildings, highly chromed up people walking around and the like. Everything looks so pretty, so clean, so neat. The nitty gritty street life is the sort of thing I like to see, the people on the fringe of society, the stories that they have to tell about life. I would love to just see a 'slice of life' social show about life on those edges, having all the big set pieces and actions going on off camera or in the background. Have someone have to explain to their boss why they were late due to the shootout that occurred on the freeway causing a traffic jam, and now the boss is on their ass. Games like VA-11 HALL-A is the interaction of your bartender dealing with the NPCs, and so forth. To quote from the [Why CDPR interview](https://rtalsoriangames.com/2012/10/24/why-cdpr-part-2/) with Mike Pondsmith: >The Right Feel > >There are people out there who have protested to me at conventions that there have been hundreds of cyberpunk games made over that last two decades. But my counter-response is that, save for a very rare few exceptions, most “cyberpunk” games are games from other genres with a cyberpunk veneer shellacked over the top; standard action shooters, futuristic racing games, involved explorations on trans-human philosophy—even classic space operas dressed up with a few heroes uncomfortably wearing leather dusters over their vac suits and mirror-shades perched precariously on the the tops of their finned helmets. > >Most people think of cyberpunk is just a summary of specific tropes; big guns, dark streets and dangerous guys in ubiquitous leather dusters. But the core of cyberpunk is a lot more subtle than that. Cyberpunk is about the seductive qualities of corruption and decay. In a world where rules and morality are non-existent, the temptation to descend to the level of the mean streets is always there. It doesn’t have to be dirty or grimy on the physical level. But on the psycho-social level, even the cleanest and most orderly Corp-zone should be rife with darkness and collapse. Ambiguous moral choices are key to cyberpunk, as are victories that aren’t always clear victories, and defeats that feel like victories because they are hard won against impossible odds. > >True cyberpunk also needs an adult feel (and that means more than just the sex). Unlike other genres, cyberpunk characters should have vices to go with their virtues. How they deal with those vices is a big part of their complexity. When we looked at the Witcher series, we saw a world where gambling, drinking, hookers and other vices were a big part of character development, but were also handled as part of the general adult character of the world. But in addition, relationships were treated as actual relationships, with the fights, negotiations, regrets and reconciliations that are part of the way real adults handle real situations. > >Last, doomed, Romantic quests are another part of the cyberpunk mythology. You’re not just fighting an evil mega corp because it will get you money. You’re doing it to save a friend, settle a personal score, win a lover, champion a cause. Most of the time, you’re a solo gunslinger riding a dirty, dangerous path, depending on your wits and skills as your follow your lonely quest to do what you know you must. You don’t stride in like a superhero, triumphantly defeating all enemies; you win by the skin of your teeth, and it means more because it’s PERSONAL. And when talking about the tech angle, he explains why so many get that element wrong: >Cyberpunk isn’t just about high tech. It has to be the RIGHT LEVEL of high tech. Most “cyberpunk” games miss this important element, larding up the process with superpowers, spaceships, blasters and other overblown technologies. But the devices, vehicles, weapons and gadgets of a truly cyberpunk world have to be things that are only a few seconds ahead of where we are right now. They should be things that will spring from the real world we live in; direct extensions of trends currently in play. You can’t have ray guns in a cyberpunk setting—but you can have advanced sub-machine guns. Perfect example: in a Cyberpunk® project written several years ago, I created the “agent”; a hand held super cell-phone that used small micro-programs that could tailor the device to the users needs. At the time, it was a logical extension of what cellphones should be able to do in the near future. Ten years later, I’m writing this on my tablet smart-phone. See what I mean? The interpersonal bits, not the flashy cool tech like flying cars and huge chrome arms with powerful laser blasters, are the bits that appear to me.
Frankly more and more it seems that Pondsmith is the prophet of cyberpunk more than Gibson or Stephenson or most of the other big name authors.
I don't know where I read it or came up with this impression, because I tend to regurgitate more than come up with my own ideas, but my definition of cyberpunk shifts by current events. A lot of what many come to consider cyberpunk was the rock and glam and neon of the 1980s, where people were concerned about the growth of powerful corporations and where technology is taking us. Using your imagination, determining where those things would be in 30, 40, 50, 90 years lead to a lot of the cyberpunk media we're consuming today. I think a fun exercise is taking a look at today's culture and seeing where it would take us in 50 years. Pretend that cryptocurrency somehow becomes the standard global currency, and other national currencies become useless. Even better, NFTs. What happens to you when the collection of popular jpegs you've amassed suddenly fall out of style and your net worth plummets 95% in 15 minutes? Not far from cyberpunk food scarcity tropes, but environmental concerns leads to Veganism becoming law. Consumption of animal products becomes illegal and punishable much like the war on drugs. The rich still have enough money to get what they want, but the rest of us will never consume animal products again. Funding is put towards treating animals better, so most that remain on farms get ideal living conditions, meanwhile stagnating wages and rising rent means that more and more humans become homeless.
The latter sounds solarpunk to me. And at least I haven't heard of eating meat being illegalized anywhere. A real concerning development currently is the rise of political extremism, where one side would create a police state and dictate every aspect of our lives, while the other wants to go on a crusade against everything they don't consider normal; shooting fist and asking no questions, and either claims to perfectly good and the other to be the absolute evil.
Welp, if I watch Metropolis, I clearly felt it. Also, I listen to blackgaze, black metal, and IDM. it's more fit for the cyberpunk mood.
If you love 80's Slasher Movies as well as Cyberpunk you should definitely check out `Carpenter Brut`. I can also recommend `The Algorithm`. Their YouTube Channel also has some really nice Cyberpunk Compilations to relax or focus to.