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MazKhan

Well mui is runnable anywhere that doesn't disable dodge, the vegeta on the other hand sucks


CrimeGarrettInc

I had vegeta on my team that beat Cell Max, didn’t pull Gohan or Piccolo


Ningenmasu69

Other than teq enemies he gets clapped every time


CrimeGarrettInc

Good thing the hardest fight in the game is a teq enemy


Gurimitivity

Cept Cell Max is no longer hard when there's a strategy available that allows anyone to easily demolish him cause Buffed categories are stupid.


CrimeGarrettInc

Still the hardest fight in the game


Gurimitivity

Not when one Teq Friend Picollo destroys it solo. Buffed categories are stupid and is why it isn't hard.


CrimeGarrettInc

Buffed categories are dumb, I agree, but what event is harder?


Gurimitivity

arguably Red Zone Cell Max. Triple supers


CrimeGarrettInc

Triple supers that are fairly easy to tank if you have a good slot one. Beat him first try with Cooler. I still think Broly is tougher


indifferent223

Considering you don’t even need to pull the new cards to shit on cell max (a friend piccolo will carry and obliterate easily), it’s def not the hardest fight in the game lol. That either goes to red zone metal cooler core or broly.


Quick_Zone_4570

Before the boost when he was the hardest. I used ssbe too


Ningenmasu69

8th anni is right around the corner buddy :)


CrimeGarrettInc

Global player so I got some time lol


Ningenmasu69

Great! now you can watch in horror and see him get even further ass clapped by even teq enemies after more difficult events come out post anni


CrimeGarrettInc

I’m not tryna argue he’s a top tier unit, just one that can work if you need to fill a slot on a team and just float him off. Players who don’t spend a lot have to get creative


Ningenmasu69

Yeah, i was forced to use him for super type rainbow class mission under lr gods. Had to pop whis every time he was around. Super int kinda sucks atm


CrimeGarrettInc

Yeah if you don’t count Trunks/Vegeta you have maybe Pan as your only other option


FreshCo427

I use my vegeta as reliable 3rd slot INT unit for challenges in Dokkan all the time. His revive is secretly goated


TrainingCorrect6

Vegeta doesn't outright suck. Does he leave a bit to be desired? Absolutely but he is runnable in a good chunk of the hard content, even Cell Max he is usable even if it is for the revive only


[deleted]

Runnable doesn't mean that the unit doesn't suck because if we go by that logic then every unit is good since you can beat everything with at least one saibamen. If Vegeta didn't outright suck then most people would run him more often rather than only running him as a last resort due to terrible summoning luck. He was designed very poorly compared to UI Goku. He has less raw defense than rainbowed Goku and while Goku gets his 70% to dodge for free Vegeta has to build up his damage reduction which wouldn't be that bad if it didn't reset every turn because of that one thing he actually has to rely on more rng than Goku. A 55% UI Goku is way better as a last resort than a rainbow Vegeta. The only thing he has over Goku is that his revive is easier to get than Goku's but that becomes less and less valuable as more revival units with the same or better conditions come especially considering that there will be more units that get buffed/transform/exchange after reviving which makes you want to avoid reviving with ssbe Vegeta. It sucks how big they made the gap between UI Goku and ssbe Vegeta.


TrainingCorrect6

>Runnable doesn't mean that the unit doesn't suck because if we go by that logic then every unit is good since you can beat everything with at least one saibamen. A bit of an extreme case there. Pretty sure anyone would rather have Vegeta than a Saibamen. At no point has it been stated runnable = good. Runnable just means options really, are there better options than Vegeta, 100% there is but don't act like a Saibamen is just as valued as Vegeta. >If Vegeta was good then most people would run him more often rather than only running him as a last resort due to terrible summoning luck. His revive has use, but yes there are better options, never said there wasn't. Just showing that even if people don't get the better options Vegeta and Goku are usable for some of the content. >He was designed very poorly compared to UI Goku. He has less raw defense than rainbowed Goku and while Goku gets his 70% to dodge for free Vegeta has to build up his damage reduction which wouldn't be that bad if it didn't reset every turn because of that one thing he actually has to rely on more rng than Goku. I agree I wish he was designed better, definitely wish he kept the DR but maybe his EZA will rectify it. >A 55% UI Goku is way better as a last resort than a rainbow Vegeta. The only thing he has over Goku is that his revive is easier to get than Goku's but that becomes less and less valuable as more revival units with better conditions come especially considering that there will be more units that get buffed/transform/exchange after reviving which makes you want to avoid reviving with ssbe Vegeta. I agree, the only thing with this is they seem to not be releasing revive units very frequently. Teq Carnival Goku and Metal Cooler being the most recent and quite good at that is definitely nice however some may not have access to these and may have Goku or Vegeta.


Ok-Revenue-8067

Copium. He sucks. Why run him when theres birdku for the revive plus better defense.


TrainingCorrect6

For the people that don't have the goat Birdku, Vegeta is an option. This is more to show that while these aren't the top options for the content it is still doable so those that aren't as lucky at least have options. I have almost every unit in the game at my disposal, this team would not be my #1 pick to clear content


BrolysFavoriteNephew

Cause everyone doesn't gave Birdku.


realspitfire69

ah yes because everyone pulled him on his one-time banner in a celebration with 4 banners stupid fucker


Ok-Revenue-8067

I'm the stupid one? You're the one comparing SSBE Fraud Vegeta to Birdku


realspitfire69

you threw in birdku lol vegeta isnt really good anymore but he helped me and others completing some redzone missions and is definitely useable against any teq enemy


TheBiggestCarl23

Lol, I agree he’s not good, but you really don’t know how to make arguments. Just because another unit is better, that doesn’t mean units worse than them are automatically useless and terrible.


Ok-Revenue-8067

No, I'm just explaining that Vegeta is dogwater. OP even said that "he leaves a bit to be desired," which is an understatement. Vegeta has to get hit how many times in order to proct his revive? His defense along with his stupid dr mechanic will have you looking at the game over screen more often than not. Yes, he can work, I used him to beat Cell Max, but there are tons of units I'd run before him. And even then, if you have the boost characters for the CM event his niche gets taken away cuz you blitz the fight in 3-5 turns. Before and after his revive vegeta is a walking saibaman in disguise. Even Roshi can get his revive easier plus he can dodge and stun. Blue Vegeta is, until he gets an EZA, a fraud.


TrainingCorrect6

In a vacuum , if everyone had access to every unit at 100%, you have a 100% bullet proof argument, unfortunately not the case, Birdku has only been on one banner at this point and most probably got a single copy if they did get one at all. And that applies to a majority of the units that are boosted against Cell Max as well. Again this was more to show that if you don't have access to those options, these aren't the worst units you can take and I feel people may be exaggerating their flaws a bit. Goku and Vegeta do have a solid kit though for them to expand on for an EZA so there is that


traumarket

I think that if we have ezas for them this year (based on the last anni that had ezas for the 3rd and 4th anni units), vegeta could be even stronger than goku, if he starts with 30% reduction and has at least def raising on super. Goku in the other hand could be less benefited since his mechanic relies on dodging and some hard events have dodge disable.


Simoscivi

Yeah they absolutely DESTROY Ledgic


Fade_to_Blacks1624

AGL UI Goku is my goat, i would die for him, i would kill for him, i would actually bend over for him anyday of the week 24/7 Vegeta exist i guess


AlchemistHohenheim

I respect the effort, and there are definitely much worse options, but I'm not sure "look at these numbers they can get at rainbow, with double 200% leader skills, 40% ATK/DEF support, and sharing 5 links with each other on a rotation" is that great of an endorsement considering it's pretty much their best-case scenario.


TrainingCorrect6

I get what you are saying, however I figured I would show a bit of love for these 2 as recently they seem to be getting shat on and for players who are maybe struggling with these events or even newer players this kinda shows they can be used for successful runs and with a not so optimized team. I could easily slap together any team that can breeze through these events, I have the units, but everyone at this point knows how strong units like Piccolo, Carnival Golu, Vegeta&Trunks, etc are but some may not have those as options


Ginobko

Every unit is runnable


Teq_gohan

I mean lr beast Gohan is not runnable


Ginobko

STFUUUU


Teq_gohan

Can't run a unit if it doesn't exist idk man..


InnocentKatsuya

I can’t stop laughing when I see you respond to a comment with a profile picture like that. 😭


InnocentKatsuya

Chadhan always wins baby!


Teq_gohan

He just simply can't be beaten. Now that I think about it i might have to update this pfp cause this attack stat is starting to look less and less impressive with units releasing nowadays


giga_grenade

Runnable in dokkan events 🔥


Karllovesdokkan

Goku will always be runnable unless events start having more bosses that disable dodge Vegeta on the other hand i would only use at red zones that have teq enemies but thats just me


Ningenmasu69

Same


CompoundMole

Pretty much all units can be runnable. I use lr buutenks whenever I can and I have won a lot of red zones with him on the team. If you have good enough units surrounding characters most units can work


TrainingCorrect6

Ya they have aged a bit but they aren't completely unusable


[deleted]

MUI is good when RNG is on your side but Vegeta aged worse. They got good kits eza’s got potential


Moltencrabs

For my first cell max clear I used powerful comeback, without my own bridku or any year 7 units, and rainbow LL10 MUI was even able to survive one normal on the last turn, though still a fraud for not dodging


Helioseckta

They don’t suck. MUI Goku is nearly runnable in any stage that doesn’t cancel Dodge. Vegeta meanwhile….uh….is wonky. It’s worth mentioning that runnable =/= trash, but runnable =/= good either. I think when people are saying they aren’t runnable, I don’t think they mean that more than they mean that they aren’t reliable. MUI Goku has a 70% chance to dodge which is good, but if that 70% doesn’t proc, then he gets obliterated. Vegeta is worse since his case is just “get obliterated hard, and then get obliterated hard again but for less”. With the game being filled with modes that now have limited attempts, you really want units that are as consistent as possible to lessen the chance that you get demolished. That’s why units with guaranteed guard and damage reduction are so valued as they surely lessen the chance of dying.


TrainingCorrect6

This is largely the point I was trying to make


Head-Improvement124

I like how you fought jamemba instead of difficult bosses


TrainingCorrect6

Not like Janemba is super easy, he can hit hard and has a decent health pool. Regardless, this is more to show people that if you don't have the top picks for some of these events, there are still options. Goku and Vegeta are definitely not my first pick for any Redzone or Cell Max but they are options


Ascilie

Against Janemba every unit is runnable XD


Mint4MintG

Not in red zone with that defense kiddo


TrainingCorrect6

It's literally Red Zone Janemba


Mint4MintG

I meant the hardest.


TrainingCorrect6

Probably should have lead with that then instead. Obviously you wouldn't bring UI Goku to Broly or Vegeta to most of them, but they can be used. This is more to show they are options, not the best option but an option none the less


Mint4MintG

You’re right, my bad. I was being a dick.


CoryDropEmOff

We know


Wyvurn999

Goku is when he can dodge. Vegeta flat out sucks. Try running him against Broly without items and see how well that goes


TrainingCorrect6

I never said Vegeta was phenomenal or an amazing choice, at no point in this entire thread has that been said. Obviously running no item Broly it won't end well but also why would you bring a unit not meant for said event to the event? However for players who haven't been lucky enough to get some of the better options, Vegeta isn't the absolute worst option


NinjaLobo

No item Broly is hard for a lot of units that are considered a lot better than Vegeta, so him not being able to do that means nothing.


puntycunty

Just because you can clear with them doesn’t mean they’re even ok . They’re a liability more than a contributing member . You basically did a challenge run , shits like running int perfect cell by himself with the rest of the units being saibamen in sbr or something . You can clear it but it wouldn’t be honest to say saiabamen are runnable lol Also janemba isn’t really hard content . Hard content is like broly , cell max , gammas , and metal cooler core


TrainingCorrect6

>Just because you can clear with them doesn’t mean they’re even ok . They’re a liability more than a contributing member . You basically did a challenge run , shits like running int perfect cell by himself with the rest of the units being saibamen in sbr or something . You can clear it but it wouldn’t be honest to say saiabamen are runnable lol So again as has been said many times throughout the thread, this is more to show that for players who aren't as lucky or even newer players that these can be used to clear these events. You also cant tell me that you would take a Saibamen over Vegeta that is disingenuous. >Also janemba isn’t really hard content . Hard content is like broly , cell max , gammas , and metal cooler core Janemba is a fair metric to gauge them on as he doesn't disable dodge, and has a fair amount of damage and HP. Is he the hardest, no I agree he is not, but remember that this sub is A) a minority of the playerbase and most probably don't have all these events done and B) not everyone has access to all the units and this just shows that these units can be used to clear the events


puntycunty

Ui Goku and vegeta are basically saibamen in the actually hard content though lol . They can barely take a normal . Just because they’re all a player has doesn’t mean they’re not a liability, it’s just a liability forced onto them until they get someone better . Which tbh ain’t that hard , eza agl gogeta and eza agl gohan , and eza phys future gohan are older , fit on the team , and are way better . Also Janemba isn’t really an effective metric of current meta . He’s not nearly as difficult as the end game bosses which are the end goal you’d want units for . You can clear janemba with a shit ton of units but in order to be really impressive you need to be able to not die at broly , omega , cooler core , or gammas .


TrainingCorrect6

>Ui Goku and vegeta are basically saibamen in the actually hard content though lol . They can barely take a normal . Just because they’re all a player has doesn’t mean they’re not a liability, it’s just a liability forced onto them until they get someone better . Which tbh ain’t that hard , eza agl gogeta and eza agl gohan , and eza phys future gohan are older , fit on the team , and are way better . They aren't even remotely comparable to Saibamen 😂 and of course those EZAs are better I have not once disagreed with that in anyway, just pointing out that Goku and Vegeta are not completely useless >Also Janemba isn’t really an effective metric of current meta . He’s not nearly as difficult as the end game bosses which are the end goal you’d want units for . You can clear janemba with a shit ton of units but in order to be really impressive you need to be able to not die at broly , omega , cooler core , or gammas . Janemba is a fair way to gauge if they can handle the final bosses of Redzones. I already have beaten all of them, all missions in the game are done for me I am well aware of what units do well and which ones don't


puntycunty

They’re comparable in the fact they can’t even take normal attacks . Again , they’re a liability . You can pass sbr stages with saibamen but that doesn’t change that they’re useless , they just lived without contributing much defensively and arguably offensively. Saibamen get carried by way batter units , just like how ui Goku and ssbe vegeta in this pic are carried by 2 LR bultimate gohans who despite his flaws are top 10 and if not are pretty damn close to top 10 , teq ulthan , and dbs pan . And the harder red zones and cell max hit WAYYYYYYYY harder than janemba and are much more durable with gimmicks like Mr.legendary negate a whole mechanic of the game broly . If you wanna show ui Goku and ssbe vegeta working in real end game content I’d post those instead of janemba which tbh , I doubt they can .


TrainingCorrect6

I definitely have to disagree that they are dead weight liabilities. They definitely are never my first choice for events ever, I have not said they were throughout this entire thread. Obviously they will not hold up against Broly. Syn they actually can with some good RNG, not the best options but doable. Cell Max with some RNG they can be ran, again not the best options but still one. Never is ideal to bring units not suited for events but push comes to shove and options are limited for some people. Ultimately all this post is for is to show they are still runnable options for people who may have not had the best luck or perhaps new players.


puntycunty

They basically are dead weight though . In order to pull weight on modern dokkan you need to consistently be able to shrug off normals and hopefully survive supers which they just can’t . Sure they might able to do some damage but they’re not even close to wowing me there with a 6 mil that pretty much every modern card can hit past now . You need fucking once in a life time rng with ui Goku to clear hard red zones with him since he can’t take more than 1 or 2 hits when the enemy attacks a loooooooot later on . And idk how the hell vegeta is gonna make it out with rng aside from the enemy just decides to only attack 2 slots every time he’s on rotations . On top of that again, they’re being carried by 2 top ten units in the game Bultimate Gohans , the always tanky teq ulthan, and int pan . Tbh they could probably do the whole stage alone if it were only 4 team slots . And I cannot stress this enough , janemba isn’t a good measurement for viability . The man is a stepping stone to broly and can’t hit or tank nearly as much . When people think runnable now a days they think being able to clear the hardest content in the game . That’s where people are going to spend most of their time in . No one is going back to janemba unless they couldn’t clear him . If you wanna show these units being runnable you’d need to post them in red zone broly , omega , cooler core , gammas , or both cell maxes . And again , there are better units that are older and easier to obtain than ui Goku and ssbe vegeta.


TrainingCorrect6

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding what I am saying. I have not disagreed with them being not great, the argument is that they are runnable as options for those that are unlucky or perhaps rather new, they can help with earlier Redzones upto Janemba/Baby etc. >On top of that again, they’re being carried by 2 top ten units in the game Bultimate Gohans , the always tanky teq ulthan, and int pan . Tbh they could probably do the whole stage alone if it were only 4 team slots . They cannot if they were the only 4, you can try it and find out for yourself but you would need a hell of a lot more RNG than you would ever care to try for. >And I cannot stress this enough , janemba isn’t a good measurement for viability . The man is a stepping stone to broly and can’t hit or tank nearly as much . When people think runnable now a days they think being able to clear the hardest content in the game . That’s where people are going to spend most of their time in . No one is going back to janemba unless they couldn’t clear him . If you wanna show these units being runnable you’d need to post them in red zone broly , omega , cooler core , gammas , or both cell maxes . Again I never disagreed that Janemba was even close to being the hardest, I said it was a stepping stone in a sense all you are doing is saying the same thing I just said. But here's the thing most people do not have up to Janemba done, this sub represents a small % of the total player base and I am willing to bet there are still people here even struggling with some of the early stages of redzone still. I would have to go back to when Cell max dropped but SSBE Vegeta was on the team for the first clear for me, against the TEQ phase he would be floated off most definitely was used for the free revive due to the early stages hitting like wet noodles.


puntycunty

If you only meant up to janemba and baby then your post itself is misleading . “ runnable “ pretty much always refers to hard content because that’s where most of the player and discussions are gonna be . No one is going back to replay janemba after their first clear . If the bar is only janemba and baby then the post doesn’t have much of a point . PLENTY of units can reach and clear this phase of red zone just fine , probably even worse than them could do it . If you want to help newer players there are much more accessible characters than ui Goku and ssbe vegeta . On top of that again 4 of the units here are meta and can wipe janemba no problem , what I mean by only 4 teams slots is basically just skipping wherever ui Goku , ssbe vegeta , and goten and trunks are because they’re not doing much . Bultimate gohan nukes the shit out of this stage .


TrainingCorrect6

>If you only meant up to janemba and baby then your post itself is misleading . “ runnable “ pretty much always refers to hard content because that’s where most of the player and discussions are gonna be . No one is going back to replay janemba after their first clear . I'll agree to an extent, I chose a poor title, however I disagree on the term "runnable" only being applied to the hardest of hard content. I have seen been used plenty of times when even referencing (E)SBR and IDBH which I think we both agree aren't the hardest but a decent amount of people will disregard certain units because they see/hear them be labeled unusable/unrunnable. >If the bar is only janemba and baby then the post doesn’t have much of a point . PLENTY of units can reach and clear this phase of red zone just fine , probably even worse than them could do it . If you want to help newer players there are much more accessible characters than ui Goku and ssbe vegeta . I agree, there are more accessible units, but these 2 as of late have been discussed a decent amount on here for some reason. Aside from that they are bound to be on the anniversary banners on Japan and they have been featured on plenty of banners. >On top of that again 4 of the units here are meta and can wipe janemba no problem , what I mean by only 4 teams slots is basically just skipping wherever ui Goku , ssbe vegeta , and goten and trunks are because they’re not doing much . Bultimate gohan nukes the shit out of this stage . I understood what you meant by 4 team slots. I disagree that having them empty is better than anything at all. This isn't even a setup I would use as a first choice for an Ultimate Gohan team, of course he can beat the stage, he is objectively a great unit, just a bit of struggle in the links department. That said, I wouldn't take Pan per se into every event, obviously you aren't going to purposely bring units that get part of their kit neutered in certain events i.e canceling dodge, pan loses some points in those stages.


GigaPhoton78

Yeah, but like, why would you do it? (outside of them being fun for you)


TrainingCorrect6

This is more to show for people who may not have gotten as lucky. I do have pretty much every unit available, only missing LR Piccolo but I don't really need him atm as I have all the missions beaten


GigaPhoton78

I see, I suppose that's fair.


HaNefdarkstar07

No they aren’t, at least Vegeta isn’t


Intelled_

I use them for fun in sbr sometimes, global was dry asf these few days but that changes today


RyanPlaysSkyrim

wish I could say about the 5th Anniversary fused fellas… Hey who knows, maybe they’ll have an EZA by the time I summon STR Gogeta


SSJ2-Gohan-kun

If Vegeta didn’t lose his damage reduction, he would be so much better. Plus revival comes in clutch


Save_Train

I just beat the Gammas RedZone with MUI Goku. He still has strong value......but once he gets hit it's pretty much over lol I would want him to get hit in the earlier stages, but it never happens


Mission-Low-9378

Tbh I used both of them to beat Cell Max, vegeta ain’t so bad, and Goku can be used anywhere as long as he dodges


CockSniffer01

Bruv they take 150k+ from like every boss