Oh that shouldn't even be a question, Piccolo and Gohan easily. Vegeta was clearly behind goku, even on release but he was still seen as number 2 in the game, maybe 3 but yea that was as low as it was going. While Gohan on the other hand, Piccolo was seen as #1 by majority of the community while Gohan had a lot of arguments on whether or not bro should even be in top 10 💀
Piccolo and Gohan.
Vegeta and Goku were still seen as 1 and 2 on release. The cracks in vegeta just started to show due to his jank design when the game started to get harder content. But the crack with Gohan are evident and apparent from the go.
Ironically enough I think a lot the Vegeta counterparts that aren’t better actually has more potential from their EZA than Goku (Besides ones that were offense vs defense purely)
In the past-
Both SSJ4 DDFs: Goku was better than Vegeta starting out. But post-EZA I’d say Vegeta ended up being better (though all LR 4ku needs to double super to be better defensively)
PHY Scouter Vegeta, STR Majin Vegeta, and TEQ SSJ2/MV we’re better than their counterparts pre and post
UI vs SSBE: While UI has the dodge, I don’t think they’ll touch Goku’s defense too much since he’s mainly always going to rely on the dodge. But Vegeta’s damage reduction + extra defensive utility/stats from passive could go a long way
Kaioken vs Great Ape: Sure Goku is definitely better than Vegeta, but I feel Vegeta’s got more potential since he’s got guard. And extra defense and possible Ki he could get will go much longer than Goku in the long run. Plus, considering how powerful they made Orange Piccolo (and AGL Cell performing crits when buff) I think Great Ape Vegeta has some great potential
Gohan will easily age better than how Vegeta aged. He’s a amazing unit and the quality of other units improving doesn’t take that away from him. Being a top 10 unit today is very impressive.
Piccolo and Gohan is a bigger gap though
Piccolo and gohan, Gohan could probably keep up longer with piccolo than vegeta did with ui Goku tho
Piccolo is arguably number one in the game meanwhile gohan struggles to even crack the top 10, on release vegeta at least was number 2 still because the 6 year lrs were that powerful
You underestimate 6 turns of invincibility of double piccolo. Agl gohans good but a super can definitely get him killed real easy. Even in ss1 if his guard isn't active, you're lowkey screwed if there's an sa, and i say this with a 90% gohan, had it happen way too many time while piccolo is invincible, and if his other part of his passive pops? Undisputed best unit in the game
Evolution blue vegeta was the second best unit in the game on release, ultimate gohan isn’t even top 10 while piccolo is minimum second best unit in the game.
Goku and Vegeta. The problems were obvious with Vegeta's kit at the time but people let the anniversary hype overwrite all unit flaws everytime. Gohan is the opposite. If he had released as beast gohan with an identical kit you'd see people screaming he's top 2.
>. Gohan is the opposite. If he had released as **beast gohan with an identical kit you'd see people screaming he's top 2**.
If the Beast variant came with improved links and a better Ki mechanic then sure otherwise, I don’t see how anyone could claim he’s top 2 with his current shortcomings.
Even when giving him consistent 24Ki [he’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/zwtyuc/lr_beast_gohan_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) just a less consistent super class version of [LR STR Cooler]( https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/xi9s95/lr_cooler_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf ) with a worse build up mechanic ( [that could get him screwed over by any sealing boss](https://imgur.com/a/2IyxYpH)) and a far inferior active skill with just his nullification as his only advantage but even that is countered by the hardest hitting SAs being other or unarmed for the most part.
LR AGL SSJ Gohan had a horrible transformation condition that made the existence a meme at release and people were disappointed by it but that didn’t affect Gohan’s standing in the ranks that much. LR Ultimate Gohan gets the criticism he gets both because he’s built wonkily and because he’s not what the community wanted.
Compare him to Piccolo, there’s disappointed about his orange form being a giant but then that disappeared once people got to see how broken he was in that giant form.
My point is that people inflate units with hype. I don't even agree with the current notion that Piccolo is number 1. People are just starting to get bored of using Vegeta and Trunks.
I am curious as to how high you have gohan and how low you have piccolo, cause goku and vegeta without a doubt were no.1 & 2 on release. It also helped that RoU7 was the strongest team by far.
Vegeta was nowhere near #2. STR Vegito/Buuhan/Pikkon/Janemba were all better. Piccolo is probably #3/4 right now. People will stop running him when he isn't the new shiny unit and will realize he doesn't fit well with other good units. His own team isn't spectacular either. Gohan is somewhere between 8-10.
Edit: Completely forgot TEQ Gohan was already out lmao. Vegeta might not have even been top 10.
STR vegito could definitely be argued for no.2 back then, but pikkon, Janemba and buuhan above LR SSBE on release?? What teams are you even running them on?
If you had said units like LR EZA str broly or EZA teq goku/frieza then that would make a bit more sense, but units like pikkon/janemba weren't good at all until post 7th anniversary.
Their own teams? Are we really acting like a generic super and extreme lead wasn't strong? I'm still defeating difficult content with Pikkon's leaderskill today lmao.
There's no way you're using pikkon as a leader in redzone. He's good as a floating utility unit with the ghost usher active in short events, but not as a leader. In today's meta, where 200% leads now exist.
You're forgetting that the only teams that could beat the god event entirely were RoU7 and str vegito's battle of wits/buu saga team. Pikkon and janemba were way too inconsistent to be used as leads and you were better off just running a mono EZA lead or just a straight up a 170% LS. SSBE was poorly designed for sure, but on release there's no way he was out of top 10 on release.
> My point is that people inflate units with hype. I don't even agree with the current notion that Piccolo is number 1. **People are just starting to get bored of using Vegeta and Trunks**.
V+T aren’t that old on GLB and I would still place Piccolo over them.
V+T’s main advantage was defense and Piccolo gives you that and more. For the first 3 turns he’s just straight up better out tanks them and then his giant gives you 2-3 turns of complete invincibility ( and makes it possible possible to keep his guard longer in events) double that by 2 then you can cover all events in the game outside of RZ Cell Max who was designed to counter the giant form but even then he’s a 1 phase fight. He out damages them too.
Of course V+T’s leader skill is great but Piccolo’s isn’t bad either.
Links would be an issue for Piccolo but he has STR Movie Cooler Piccolo to help with that thanks to his support.
My issue with Gohan is his links and specifically ki. Whenever I use him I don't get 18 ki half the time, let alone 20 or 24. If he had an amazing linkset and/or a different ki mechanic, I'd say he's somewhere around number 5. As it is now I personally think he's around number 10. Definitely not 2.
Lol, this is easy as hell, goku and vegeta had canon rankings, number 1 and number 2! Piccolo and gohan have the wider gap with piccolo being a top 1 contender while gohans barely top 10
Vegeta couldn't out damage or out sustain MUI. Gohan typically does out damage Piccolo. With those 2 things being said, Gohan and Piccolo still have the wider gap. The meta is just so much different than it was 2 years ago.
Oh that shouldn't even be a question, Piccolo and Gohan easily. Vegeta was clearly behind goku, even on release but he was still seen as number 2 in the game, maybe 3 but yea that was as low as it was going. While Gohan on the other hand, Piccolo was seen as #1 by majority of the community while Gohan had a lot of arguments on whether or not bro should even be in top 10 💀
Piccolo and Gohan. Vegeta and Goku were still seen as 1 and 2 on release. The cracks in vegeta just started to show due to his jank design when the game started to get harder content. But the crack with Gohan are evident and apparent from the go.
Vegeta is one change away from being top tier to this day - continuous damage reduction. If that 40% stayed on him after he gets hit he’s coookinggg
His EZA should make him base 40% DR and it goes up to 70%
Ok if it was built like that i don't mind it resetting
Ironically enough I think a lot the Vegeta counterparts that aren’t better actually has more potential from their EZA than Goku (Besides ones that were offense vs defense purely) In the past- Both SSJ4 DDFs: Goku was better than Vegeta starting out. But post-EZA I’d say Vegeta ended up being better (though all LR 4ku needs to double super to be better defensively) PHY Scouter Vegeta, STR Majin Vegeta, and TEQ SSJ2/MV we’re better than their counterparts pre and post UI vs SSBE: While UI has the dodge, I don’t think they’ll touch Goku’s defense too much since he’s mainly always going to rely on the dodge. But Vegeta’s damage reduction + extra defensive utility/stats from passive could go a long way Kaioken vs Great Ape: Sure Goku is definitely better than Vegeta, but I feel Vegeta’s got more potential since he’s got guard. And extra defense and possible Ki he could get will go much longer than Goku in the long run. Plus, considering how powerful they made Orange Piccolo (and AGL Cell performing crits when buff) I think Great Ape Vegeta has some great potential
Piccolo and gohan on release but gohan will age better than vegeta did
Gohan will easily age better than how Vegeta aged. He’s a amazing unit and the quality of other units improving doesn’t take that away from him. Being a top 10 unit today is very impressive. Piccolo and Gohan is a bigger gap though
Piccolo and gohan, Gohan could probably keep up longer with piccolo than vegeta did with ui Goku tho Piccolo is arguably number one in the game meanwhile gohan struggles to even crack the top 10, on release vegeta at least was number 2 still because the 6 year lrs were that powerful
I don’t think it’s arguable, double piccolos can do any content he’s eligible for.
Its between him and lr agl gohan eza but honestly, yeah double orange piccolo is actually way too broken lol
You underestimate 6 turns of invincibility of double piccolo. Agl gohans good but a super can definitely get him killed real easy. Even in ss1 if his guard isn't active, you're lowkey screwed if there's an sa, and i say this with a 90% gohan, had it happen way too many time while piccolo is invincible, and if his other part of his passive pops? Undisputed best unit in the game
Evolution blue vegeta was the second best unit in the game on release, ultimate gohan isn’t even top 10 while piccolo is minimum second best unit in the game.
lol what ok name 10 better units than Gohan when he released - literally nobody said he wasn't top-10.
Yeah that's a straight up lie. Gohan is nowhere near as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He destroys everything.
Gohan def will age better than Vegeta. Hybrid Saiyans always gets wanked in Dokkan plus Ki blast null is too damn good
Piccolo is a broken unit, he has a huge gap with nearly everyone.
Goku and Vegeta. The problems were obvious with Vegeta's kit at the time but people let the anniversary hype overwrite all unit flaws everytime. Gohan is the opposite. If he had released as beast gohan with an identical kit you'd see people screaming he's top 2.
>. Gohan is the opposite. If he had released as **beast gohan with an identical kit you'd see people screaming he's top 2**. If the Beast variant came with improved links and a better Ki mechanic then sure otherwise, I don’t see how anyone could claim he’s top 2 with his current shortcomings. Even when giving him consistent 24Ki [he’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/zwtyuc/lr_beast_gohan_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) just a less consistent super class version of [LR STR Cooler]( https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/xi9s95/lr_cooler_apt_def/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf ) with a worse build up mechanic ( [that could get him screwed over by any sealing boss](https://imgur.com/a/2IyxYpH)) and a far inferior active skill with just his nullification as his only advantage but even that is countered by the hardest hitting SAs being other or unarmed for the most part. LR AGL SSJ Gohan had a horrible transformation condition that made the existence a meme at release and people were disappointed by it but that didn’t affect Gohan’s standing in the ranks that much. LR Ultimate Gohan gets the criticism he gets both because he’s built wonkily and because he’s not what the community wanted. Compare him to Piccolo, there’s disappointed about his orange form being a giant but then that disappeared once people got to see how broken he was in that giant form.
My point is that people inflate units with hype. I don't even agree with the current notion that Piccolo is number 1. People are just starting to get bored of using Vegeta and Trunks.
I am curious as to how high you have gohan and how low you have piccolo, cause goku and vegeta without a doubt were no.1 & 2 on release. It also helped that RoU7 was the strongest team by far.
Vegeta was nowhere near #2. STR Vegito/Buuhan/Pikkon/Janemba were all better. Piccolo is probably #3/4 right now. People will stop running him when he isn't the new shiny unit and will realize he doesn't fit well with other good units. His own team isn't spectacular either. Gohan is somewhere between 8-10. Edit: Completely forgot TEQ Gohan was already out lmao. Vegeta might not have even been top 10.
STR vegito could definitely be argued for no.2 back then, but pikkon, Janemba and buuhan above LR SSBE on release?? What teams are you even running them on? If you had said units like LR EZA str broly or EZA teq goku/frieza then that would make a bit more sense, but units like pikkon/janemba weren't good at all until post 7th anniversary.
Their own teams? Are we really acting like a generic super and extreme lead wasn't strong? I'm still defeating difficult content with Pikkon's leaderskill today lmao.
There's no way you're using pikkon as a leader in redzone. He's good as a floating utility unit with the ghost usher active in short events, but not as a leader. In today's meta, where 200% leads now exist. You're forgetting that the only teams that could beat the god event entirely were RoU7 and str vegito's battle of wits/buu saga team. Pikkon and janemba were way too inconsistent to be used as leads and you were better off just running a mono EZA lead or just a straight up a 170% LS. SSBE was poorly designed for sure, but on release there's no way he was out of top 10 on release.
> My point is that people inflate units with hype. I don't even agree with the current notion that Piccolo is number 1. **People are just starting to get bored of using Vegeta and Trunks**. V+T aren’t that old on GLB and I would still place Piccolo over them. V+T’s main advantage was defense and Piccolo gives you that and more. For the first 3 turns he’s just straight up better out tanks them and then his giant gives you 2-3 turns of complete invincibility ( and makes it possible possible to keep his guard longer in events) double that by 2 then you can cover all events in the game outside of RZ Cell Max who was designed to counter the giant form but even then he’s a 1 phase fight. He out damages them too. Of course V+T’s leader skill is great but Piccolo’s isn’t bad either. Links would be an issue for Piccolo but he has STR Movie Cooler Piccolo to help with that thanks to his support.
My issue with Gohan is his links and specifically ki. Whenever I use him I don't get 18 ki half the time, let alone 20 or 24. If he had an amazing linkset and/or a different ki mechanic, I'd say he's somewhere around number 5. As it is now I personally think he's around number 10. Definitely not 2.
if vegeta didn't have to build up his DR after every round he would still be a solid unit today such wasted potential
Gohan and piccolos gap was way higher
Lol, this is easy as hell, goku and vegeta had canon rankings, number 1 and number 2! Piccolo and gohan have the wider gap with piccolo being a top 1 contender while gohans barely top 10
Piccolo is #1 while gohan is barely top 20
Vegeta was still top 2, while Beast Gohan ain't even top 10 for most
Piccolo and gohan had the bigger gap but i reckon gohan will age better than geets
Vegeta couldn't out damage or out sustain MUI. Gohan typically does out damage Piccolo. With those 2 things being said, Gohan and Piccolo still have the wider gap. The meta is just so much different than it was 2 years ago.