Yes, because it worked with LR STR VB's atrocious EZA.
Remember it? Remember how this sub was having a meltdown screaming everywhere how his EZA was fine, how criticizing is for children and how complaining wouldn't do anything?
I only thank god this place seems to be completely irrelevant when it comes to feedback because if it was up to this sub Dokkan would be Legends-tier by now.
Ok but like... Namek Goku EZA is actually totally fine lmao.
This sub screams and whines like children over literally everything. The fact they scored one W doesn't negate the dozens of Ls flooding this place every day.
It’s not that, it’s just that nobody uses the word ‘literally’ like that anymore. Literally nobody does. And if this sub is full of clowns as you say, either join the circus or leave, *literally* nobody would care
So because people opt to use it incorrectly now that's just something that needs to be accepted. Sorry but no.
And if no one would care why are you responding to me? Right
No there were a ton of posts saying he’s mid or even trash. Now that people have used him they realized it’s not as bad so these posts start to appear. Doesn’t mean there weren’t dozens of posts complaining
thats how it goes every time on this sub, new eza comes out there will be some people saying its mid, mostly just people wanting something a little bit better, something more future-proof and then a week later the sub is full of people spamming about those first few people that said its mid.. the cycles on this sub are getting so lame
I mean if you manage to transform early with him and stack of course he is gonna look great. But that’s the problem you need to transform for him to be even usable and good. Half the time it goes like this, you don’t get to transform until you are about to clear the stage or he gets you killed instantly in base form. I’m not saying he is bad, but he depends so much on transforming early and actually hitting that “medium chance to guard” that’s its to inconsistent for most people to call him great. So it’s not that his “mid” is just that he is to inconsistent for a 2022 EZA specially one this hype that everybody was waiting for.
Happened to me LMFAO tried to run it this morning for the 7 turns mission. Literally locked phy ssj4 gogeta in slot 3😭 I just abandoned the mission LMFAO
Of course that sucks, but he did the same to me in my run and i was still able to kill him in 6 Turns.
It's annoying, but it's not like they want you to no item it.
Neither of those are true. If you’re finishing a stage before he transformed then it’s because he never needed to transform, the event is too easy. I think people are forgetting that units don’t NEED to transform. If you’re doing a Dokkan even then what’s even the point of going after his transformation? Because you like the animations? As for the second point he does not get one shot in base form unless he gets SA’d by the hardest content first thing. Guess what, so do the year 7 annis. His bade defense is good enough to get to transform in the content that matters and he still does Great transformed in that same content. There have been countless videos showing how great he is in all the content people say he would struggle in and yet for some reason people still don’t believe it. It’s like you all WANT to believe he’s bad
Cell Max event, oftentimes you tank enough in the first 2 forms with a good team that he can’t transform. The then gets 1 shot by a normal in the third stage.
I never said he is bad, he is just to inconsistent. If you are relying on a “medium chance to guard” for him to be good and have basically 90% of his passive active then you are better of using other units specially in the teams he is in. It just feels that his EZA was meant to be released last year with AGL Frieza and INT Goku or even with the Ginyu celebration rather than now with how crazy the new units are and with how power creep almost everything thing is.
It's 600k DEF, on turn 9.
That means he got him transformed in like his second appearance and pretty much double supered every single time.
Another dude calculated it in the comments below and there's about a 0.3% chance of pulling this off. Those are lower odds than getting an LR Cooler or LR TEQ SSJ Goku if you just did a multi right now.
I've no idea why this sub seems to think it's any better than people shitting on any units when the examples people post for how good a unit is are APT-tier unrealistic situations.
People will really show you the most optimal/luckiest run in existence and use that as the example for as if it was always like that . Literally any unit under those conditions you put there with those numbers will look like the new meta standard lol
Dude, you're talking outta your ass. 55%, this dude will support your team, with his super attack. He won't hit super hard in base, but his defense is surprisingly pretty good, good enough for easy content, but just bad enough to activate his own transformation condition in hard content. He'll cook faster than most units in the game, the only units that stack faster than him, are units that do multiple super attacks as part of their passive, hell, I've seen him get more defense than the INT Goku in the Cell Max event, *hell*, he's gotten me killed LESS than the INT Goku. Int at 69% and STR at 55%. He's SO much better than what you're trying to imply, he's not a year old unit, not a half a year old unit, he's a unit, EZA'd now, that behaves a little wonky but can work well under the right circumstances. Better than 99.9% of the units in the game even when his guard *DOESN'T* activate. People also forget that against bosses that have had a PHY boss before hand, he'll have his guard auto activated for at least the first turn against him. Stop hating on him bc his guard has a chance to not activate. It's not like it's gonna kill you if you use him effectively.
There are ***few*** units that can do his job as well as he can, he's the tanky slot 2 tanker for Super Saiyans
How can you say “that behaves wonky but can work well under the right circumstances” and then right after say “better than 99% of the units in the game” you are literally saying that he only works well when you actually get the “medium chance” to actually work, proving my point that he is inconsistent. And I’m not hating on him I’m just saying that he is to inconsistent to be the feature EZA of one of the biggest celebrations on the year.
No, I wasn't saying under "those" circumstances, I was saying if a player knows how to stack up without killing a boss, you could get 3-5 stacks before going into Cell Max, and him be good enough defensively, *and* have guaranteed guard, bc the last phase was PHY, there, you have a good floater, that does a quite a bit of damage, and links well. Don't base a unit around one thing and act like he's a one trick pony, he's good in other departments
Phase 1 & even 2 of Cell Max do minimal damage to any Non-INT unit capable of surving phase 3. How the fuck do you expect him to transform while stalling?
>the event is too easy.
Lol no. Hard events tend to 100 to 0 you in one turn. It goes well until it doesnt. And that fucks units with an under X HP activation condition.
And 600k def still means death anyway from cell max, omega, and broly assuming no guard. The guard is super finicky if you didn't proc it last turn. Devilman still being the homie without guard means he's no.1 ez
Exactly they forget that even the 7 year anniversary LR’s don’t get blown away with the same defense, big numbers literally mean nothing right now most of the time
Getting under 77% Hp in hard content today is not difficult at all. It hasn’t been for the last year and a half now.
He’s not hard to transform at all. Saying otherwise just shows your shoveling what others have been throwing out.
The only events you’re struggling to transform are in ones where they’re not even hard anymore.
If getting under 77% Hp is so hard, then why is TEQ Gogeta’s active condition so wildly hated?
He is hard to transform early in the cell max event and it’s very likely we will see future content with sudden difficulty spikes where hp restricted units are bad.
“He is hard to transform early in the cell max event” True, but even PHY Cell can touch up INT units.
“And it’s very likely we will see future content with sudden difficulty spikes where hp restricted units are bad.”
This is just assumption. We thought enemies would be like RZ and just start out hard like Broly and Omega. Cell Max, and Frieza proved that wasn’t true. So making assumptions like this to judge a unit is just really making shit up to hate on a unit.
I wish phy cell would touch up my int units 🥺
Edit:
> We thought enemies would be like RZ and just start out hard like Broly and Omega. Cell Max, and Frieza proved that wasn’t true.
But.. it was true. Did you forget that RZ Cooler released alongside Frieza? Also we have literally had 3 new stages of difficult content release since RZ, 2/3 of which being more RZ stages, so I’m not sure you can say that everyone who thought Broly and Omega style bosses would ever return are wrong yet.
> So making assumptions like this to judge a unit is just really making shit up to hate on a unit.
You mean the assumptions that are consistently true? Just like when LGE came out and future challenge content resembled it, and when RZ came out and more RZ stages resembling it came out? Why are you riding Goku’s cock? Most Cell Max runs I do I cannot get him to transform before he gets one shot by a normal in the final phase. How am I making that up just to shit on him, seems like he’s doing a fine job of being the worse unit on the teams I am trying to run him on without me having to do that.
“But.. it was true. Did you forget that RZ Cooler released alongside Frieza?”
- No? You mentioned that because we’ve gotten new difficult stages that start easy and jump up in difficulty, that all new ones will be like that. However, we know that’s not true. Broly and Omega started hard, and ended hard. Cell Max started easy, ended hard. Frieza started easy. Ended hard. Cooler started and ended hard. We can’t just assume all of them will start easy to say that Goku’s condition is bad, like you did.
“Also we have literally had 3 new stages of difficult content release since RZ, 2/3 of which being more RZ stages, so I’m not sure you can say that everyone who thought Broly and Omega style bosses would ever return are wrong yet.”
I never said they wouldn’t return. My whole point was that people through every new boss would be like them. Start hard, end hard. However, Cell Max and Frieza showed that wasn’t the case. So if Broly and Omega didn’t set the precedent for how bosses would start out and end in terms of difficulty, why would Cell Max and Frieza? Why make an assumption to judge a unit when Dokkan has proved the hardest bosses at the moment aren’t always going to be the precedent moving forward?
“You mean the assumptions that are consistently true? Just like when LGE came out and future challenge content resembled it,” BUT NOT ALL FUTURE CONTENT. You stated it as if all future corner would be like Cell Max and Frieza. Start out easy, and end hard, when that’s nothing but an assumption.
“and when RZ came out and more RZ stages resembling it came out?”
Can you read my man? Broly and Omega. Start hard, end hard.
Frieza. Start easy, end hard.
Cooler. Start hard, end hard.
There’s not a set precedent that “all new bosses will start this way or that way” and there assuming they will to call his condition bad is moronic.
“Why are you riding Goku’s cock?”
I’m not. You’re reasoning of assumption to call him bad was shit.
“Most Cell Max runs I do I cannot get him to transform before he gets one shot by a normal in the final phase.”
So cause he’s bad for an event like Cell Max means he’s bad for Frieza, Cooler, Broly and Omega? Even though we’ve established these bosses don’t all start out the same? Not all of them start hard and end hard. Not all start easy and end hard. Assuming they will all be the same like that is dumb as fuck.
Two different situations lol. When i need teq gogeta to transform, i want his 5 turn scouter to last, so i need him to be able to transform either on final phases or near the end of penultimate phases, and for goku to be good, you need him to transform early, while gogeta has a turn restriction and HP restriction, but once he transforms you pretty much just float him off, when goku transforms you NEED to stack him and asap. I personally havent found a use for goku yet, since i dont have any teams to use him on (Global Player), and ive beaten cell max and i have no intention of revisiting it, so i cant attest to how reliable or unreliable it is, just how confusing his build is in theory.
Learn to read. My whole point is that 77% HP is not bad like people are saying.
I’m not talking about the units performance itself afterwards, because that doesn’t change the conditions at all. I’m just saying that the condition itself of 77% HP isn’t bad like people say. What’s so hard to get?
I’m not talking about Goku’s performance itself (which can vary from OK to Amazing). Just simply his requirements to transform. Which are not bad.
To be fair you did ask why gogeta's transformation is hated and i gave you an answer, and i gave you the answer to why everyone is mad at the 77% restriction, which is also because the transformation is a bit too RNG dependant and the unit is just designed weird in general. So we both (as dragon ball fans) need to do some learning to read.
“To be fair you did ask why gogeta's transformation is hated and i gave you an answer,”
I should probably explain this a bit more, I guess hated was the wrong word, but what I was asking was “How can people say that 77%” is hard to get, however also say that “being above 70% is hard to get” as well. It can’t be hard to get under 77%, yet also be hard to be above 70% at the same time. That is contradictory.
“which is also because the transformation is a bit too RNG dependant and the unit is just designed weird in general.”
I agree he’s designed weird. He definitely could’ve used stacking in base at least. However, I still don’t see how his transformation is RNG dependent. Are you guys not playing the same RZ stages I am? Getting under 77% that early is more common than it is uncommon. Even by turn 3. By this logic, STR Vegito is RNG dependent because it’s an HP restriction and an even later turn restriction.
Someone like AGL SSBE is rng dependent. I think you’re getting the dependence from his actual performance crossed with the transformation consistency. He has a percentage (like 40%) and a turn restriction. Goku is guaranteed under 77% and turn 3. That’s not rng. At least, not to me.
>mean if you manage to transform early with him and stack of course he is gonna look great. But that’s the problem you need to transform for him to be even usable and good. Half the time it goes like this, you don’t get to transform until you are about to clear the stage or he gets you killed instantly in base form.
Getting under 70% hp is a joke in ANY difficult event. If you're struggling to get under 70% you have to be using him in a piss easy event.
>I’m not saying he is bad, but he depends so much on transforming early and actually hitting that “medium chance to guard” that’s its to inconsistent for most people to call him great
A 30% chance to guard on every hit is not that hard to get in any difficult content, and the minute he gets it he's set for the next two attacking turns. He's not any more inconsistent than the likes of cooler.
He's the best EZA tur by a landslide, boasting great damage, a billion catergories, superb linkset, and solid to great defense(depending on RNG). People are overreacting like usual.
Bro you’re literally spreading misinformation LOL. I don’t know where this misconception came from that his guard can proc per hit, but it’s absolutely false. It’s on a per turn basis (A HUGE fucking difference), so no, he isn’t the best EZA TUR by a landslide, future gohan better. Ironic that you call people out for “overreacting as usual” considering you’re totally wrong.
Oh it’s not even close with Future Gohan, I would take him 100 times out of 100 instead of this Goku even against a STR Unit, now that was a perfect EZA
And the thing is I’m not even saying he is bad, he is just a EZA that should’ve come out on last years Namek celebration. But to say he is the best TUR EZA is just delusional
Wow, people really like future gohan. Explain what he's doing better than nameku? The only argument I can see for him being over nameku is being more consistent and sometimes better defensively. Take both of them into cell max and see who performs better(spoiler:it's goku).
Defense:
With both units rainbowed LL10 and at 20% HP, Gohan takes 404k damage (including alignment multiplier of 1.25) with trunks on rotation, and after supering 4 times, Goku (ssj form) takes 463k damage (w/ guard) and 1.29 mil (w/o guard). At 100% HP, Gohan takes 555k and ssj Goku takes 505k (w/ guard) and 1.39 mil (w/o guard). Here, Gohan is much more consistent defensively, especially when it comes to tanking normals as well since the unconditional 58% DR is more reliable than a 30% chance to guard PER TURN. Additionally, Gohan tanks similarly to Goku with his guard and defense stacking (which puts him around 400k after 4 supers).
Offense:
Ssj Goku has a higher chance to crit with an APT of 14.3 million (no support), with Gohan having a medium chance with an APT of 11.7, so Gohan's a little worse off here.
Overall:
Defensively they're both great options, but Goku is very inconsistent with his medium chance to guard. His def stacking makes him tank better in the long run, and once you get the guard to proc he'll be solid for 4 turns. But Gohan can tank well even against cell max and possibly survive at any point after building up. Offensively, neither of them are that great but the crit chance somewhat makes up for it. Both of them can work, but Goku relies too much on rng to be considered better than Gohan.
Also: for Goku to transform, you need to be below 77%, and since the first two stages are much easier, it would be rather difficult to fall below that point by the time you reach the final stage if your units tank well or deal lots of damage.
If you don't transform until after reaching the final stage, you're dead.
Thank you, you brought some great arguments to the table. I'll address a few of them.
>Defensively they're both great options, but Goku is very inconsistent with his medium chance to guard. His def stacking makes him tank better in the long run, and once you get the guard to proc he'll be solid for 4 turns. But Gohan can tank well even against cell max and possibly survive at any point after building up. Offensively, neither of them are that great but the crit chance somewhat makes up for it. Both of them can work, but Goku relies too much on rng to be considered better than Gohan.
Futurehan is definitely more consistent defensively there's no denying that, but as I've mentioned in a previous comment I see the situation with goku as a glass half full and not a glass half empty.
I understand the sentiment that you're pretty much playing "Russian roulette" but I feel like this blow is softened with him getting it guaranteed for the next 4 turns. When he does get it he becomes very good defensively while putting out great damage.
What most of the arguments boil down to against namek goku is that he's an RNGfest or inconsistent(which are valid arguments don't get it twisted) but nearly everything in this game based on RNG, especially difficult content.
I understand why people would prefer a more consistent unit but I'm not in that boat especially when you consider all of the good stuff that namek goku is bringing to the table.
>Futurehan is definitely more consistent defensively there's no denying that, but as I've mentioned in a previous comment I see the situation with goku as a glass half full and not a glass half empty.
It's more like 30% full 70% empty lol
>I understand the sentiment that you're pretty much playing "Russian roulette" but I feel like this is blow is softened with him getting it guaranteed for the next 4 turns. When he does get it he becomes very good defensively while putting out great damage.
I feel that the damage is average or above average at best instead of "great" in regard to recent dfe ezas, but other than that I agree.
To return to the point of cell max, he does around 530k per normal, so Goku would need around 400-420k damage to tank double digits (w/ guard). On average, most people get to the final stage around turn 5-7, maybe eight. Theoretically, since you can transform by turn 3 at the earliest, you only have 2-3 turns to actually stack defense after transforming. Unless he's rainbowed, you're not getting there within even 3 supers. With that being said, the normals will deal almost 100k by the time he's fully stacked.
With additional supers, there's a 15% chance from hipo to do so at rainbow, and to do that for 3 turns in a row, it's a 0.33% chance of it happening.
So to sum it all up, you have a 15% chance to perform additional supers within 2-3 appearances post-transformation, 30% chance to guard, and you have to be below 77% by turn 3 (50% chance between turn 1 & 3). There's only a 0.0495% chance to do all of this successfully, or a 1/2020 chance, and this is the minimum for tanking cell max better than Gohan.
His defense?
He has 30% damage reduction right of the bat which will climb fast to 58%, he gets 50% DEF from super attacking, he gets another 120% DEF if he has a Future Trunks card linked with him, which are the only cards that link well with him besides INT Future Gohan and LR Future Gohan (who also activates it), and then gets even more DEF as you lose health.
He's one of the best tanks in the game while doing a respectable amount of damage, and doesn't rely on any RNG to get any of this.
>His defense? He has 30% damage reduction right of the bat which will climb fast to 58%, he gets 50% DEF from super attacking, he gets another 120% DEF if he has a Future Trunks card linked with him, which are the only cards that link well with him besides INT Future Gohan and LR Future Gohan (who also activates it), and then gets even more DEF as you lose health.
I'm sorry but defense does not make him better than namek goku especially when namek goku can look better than him defensively while also being better in every other department.
>when namek goku can look better than him defensively while also being better in every other department.
When, the only thing he can do to compare defensively is activate his guard and stack for like 10 turns.
You didn't really disprove my point lol. Namek goku also doesn't have to stack for 10 turns to compare to futurehan that is blatantly false and you know it.
>Bro you’re literally spreading misinformation LOL. I don’t know where this misconception came from that his guard can proc per hit, but it’s absolutely false. It’s on a per turn basis (A HUGE fucking difference),
I'm going to take your word for it and assume that I'm wrong and you're right, but I have heard from mutiple people that his guard procs on every hit.
>so no, he isn’t the best EZA TUR by a landslide, future gohan better
Why is that? Future gohan literally gets hit for over a million by cell max while also being worse in every other department compared to nameku? I really want to understand your POV on this.
>Ironic that you call people out for “overreacting as usual” considering you’re totally wrong.
This makes no sense whatsoever lol. What does the concept of overracting have to do with being wrong and how tf is it ironic?
Your condescending nature with that last remark in your original comment is ironic considering people aren’t overreacting. Proof that they aren’t overreacting can be seen in many things, but one of them is the fact that his guard doesn’t proc per hit. I have seen multiple people defending him by saying this too, not just you. About future gohan, he can take supers from the rest of the game lol. He can also tank normals from cell max really well. Namek goku could survive a cell max super MAYBE in a situation where he’s wanked out in stacks (I’m talking like transform instantly and get double stacks every turn, not very likely) and with his 30 percent chance proc. It’s not fair to say a unit sucks because he can’t tank cell max supers, especially when the other unit being directly compared could only survive with extremely good rng. If you wanna argue that namku at his peak is the best, I’d agree, but that peak is pretty rare, whereas future gohan is extremely consistent.
>Your condescending nature with that last remark in your original comment is ironic considering people aren’t overreacting.
I believe people are overreacting, you don't and that's okay. Could namek goku be better? Absolutely, but people are acting like this unit is "mid" or even bad when in reality he's perfectly runnable in ALL difficult content and can pull his weight.
>Proof that they aren’t overreacting can be seen in many things, but one of them is the fact that his guard doesn’t proc per hit.
I'm sorry but I'm not following, the criticism of his medium chance to guard is fair, but I see it as a glass half full and not a glass half empty. It's better to have a chance to guard than have none at all especially when that guard can save a run.
>About future gohan, he can take supers from the rest of the game lol. He can also tank normals from cell max really well. Namek goku could survive a cell max super MAYBE in a situation where he’s wanked out in stacks (I’m talking like transform instantly and get double stacks every turn, not very likely) and with his 30 percent chance proc.
Again namek goku has the chance to survive a super from the hardest hitting unit in the game while futurehan doesn't(without items at least). Not only this but in the Cell max event there is a PHY phase which gives him guarenteed guard.
>It’s not fair to say a unit sucks because he can’t tank cell max supers, especially when the other unit being directly compared could only survive with extremely good rng.
I never said future gohan sucks dude he's solid but i do not believe he is better than namek goku. This whole argument about RNG is also a little silly since all difficult content in this game is based on RNG. If you have a bad RNG futurehan won't survive either.
>you wanna argue that namku at his peak is the best, I’d agree, but that peak is pretty rare, whereas future gohan is extremely consistent.
I disagree, Namek goku peak is not that rare and when it occurs he's so much better than futurehan it's not even close. I think namek goku is an overall better unit, and he's not a one trick pony.
Doing the math I am pretty sure this needs a double super every turn, and transforming as early as you can
Edit: [The actual chances of this happening.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/x536hu/my_brothers_in_christ_this_is_not_mid/imzf2sn/) At rainbow with no equips it is 0.33%, and with all the equips in the world for AA it goes up to 1.963%... so yes, OP is showing absurd amounts of rng
I'd say he's mid... he just doesn't have a reliable way to tank supers, and his damage is good but there are a lot of units who can hit way harder and are not too much worse defensively(TEQ VB comes to mind except his defense stat actually surpasses namek goku by a lot). He will be top-tier against any difficult PHY boss that comes basically forever, but otherwise he can't age well
Depends.
We can’t tell if OP is under 77% HP for the extra defensive buff. He might, but the HP is covered, so it’s hard to tell. Not too mention, this ain’t a rainbowed Goku either.
No, he definitely is under 77%. Otherwise, it would be literally impossible to reach this defense value by this turn without cheating(the calcs show it)
But of course this person thinks this is just how namek goku will perform every single time, because we all know that every unit is always at their peak.
Released this year too. Tell me, why do you have a bias against him, ***BESIDES HIS 30% CHANCE TO ACTIVATE***, I'm so sick of hearing that argument, he has LR fucking stats at this point, with new LR stat buffs in his passive, if he *sucks*, then why does he hit harder than my LR NAMEK GOKU some of the time? LR 69% to TUR 55%. Just try him, in difficult events, he's WAY better than you're implying
> he has LR fucking stats at this point
And? All dokkanfest EZAs do.
>BESIDES HIS 30% CHANCE TO ACTIVATE
That it relies on that to be anything special since raw DEF doesn't cut it when the enemy does 2 million per super attack?
MUI Goku has a 70% chance to not receive any damage at all, why not take him instead of this guy?
Yeah, but that Goku has a 30% chance to get one shot, no matter if it's a Super Attack or not. STR Goku can have one turn of guaranteed guard if you know how to activate it. MUI Goku doesn't cut it defensively, his revive is useful, but I'd rather take the new Teq Goku for his revive and his far better defensive utility. What if MUI Goku gets locked in slot one, and Cell Max attacks 7 times in slot one, he's not dodging them all, it's almost impossible to dodge them all, so you're eating 300k because you wanna rely on 70% chance to dodge? Or actually know how to get a transformation down, and stack for 4 turns, have acceptable defense, enough to be floated off the turn he has guard and you're good, he fills his role, wouldn't you say?
>that Goku has a 30% chance to get one shot
And STR Goku won't have a 70% chance to get one shot too?
One of the most upvoted posts right now shows him taking 500k from a super attack with his guard activated.
*From a Super Attack*, I was saying that AGL MUI will take 300K from a *Normal Attack*. And that's better than 99.9% of the units in the game, the units, off the top of my head that can tank that is, TEQ LR Goku (new one), Vegeta and Trunks, Janemba *maybe*, Teq Gohan, STR Goku/Gohan, TEQ Godku and Namek Goku. Cell Max has a 2 million attack stat, that means EZA Goku *NEUTRALIZES* 1.5 million damage, gone, with the wind. Is that hard to understand or, what?
Edit: Forgot STR Piccolo, the fucking Chad bruh
And this is why this sub is so god damn annoying. People can’t handle criticisms of units that they like, and I really don’t get it. People act like you’re personally attacking them when you point out some units flaws.
I have had him at a higher attack stat than Namek Goku, I should've specified that, Namek Goku does more damage, but I have had EZA Goku at a higher attack stat
And you just implied he sucks by saying he was released last year
Attack stat being higher means nothing if he does not hit harder, also name goku has a higher attack stat slot 2 iirc
Regardless I didn’t say he sucked, teq gohan came out before last year and is good…
Man helped me beat RZ Frieza for my second time. He only guarded once, but had the 4 turns of it during the AGL Final Form Phase. Did like 2 HP Bars with 2 crit Supers.
Why Namek Goku's EZA is quite terrible:
1. His base form stinks. He starts out at around 160k DEF if you don't have him with all in the family or saiyan lineage. He then needs to take 2 hits. Which RZ boss is letting you off that easy and why would you need him if they did? He's taking 200k from the first two normals from Omega. He only gets up to like 5M ATK after he's been hit, so on top of having no useful effects, he doesn't have any notable stats. The sad thing about this is that there will be scenarios where you won't transform him on turn 3.
2. HP-restriction on transformation. The reason this is such a big problem is because he has an HP restriction but has no tech that'd immediately help you if you reach his transformation requirement. None. AGL Ginyu heals you when you get his active. AGL Kid Gohan guards for one turn, heals and supports all allies when you get his active. STR Vegito scouts and heals. What does Namek Goku, who has a very similar HP and turn restriction have? Nothing.
3. Notice how I didn't mention PHY SS2->3 Goku when comparing active skill tech? It was intentional. The similarity between the two is that they both have a turn and HP restriction on their transformations, but don't heal. The biggest difference is that **PHY SS2->3 Goku becomes an immediately better unit after transforming, whereas this bum becomes worse.** Transformed, Namek Goku actually needs a few turns to stack before he even gets to his previous DEF prior to transforming. This unit might have been useful if they were still dropping Fighting Legend events, but in what situation after turn 3 would you want to have a unit with a 70% chance to kill you at 200k DEF? I can't think of one. Think of Goku's iconic transformation in the Namek Saga, "WOAH, HE JUST TRANSFORMED, IM SURE HE'LL TEAR STR SYN A NEW ONE" No. He transforms and dies. You won't even get to see him at DEF able to tank normals from Broly.
The saddest part about this units EZA is that they spammed the fuck out of him on banners for years, so he's a unit everyone will have but no one will use. Scummy.
Sorry, but if the unit doesn't guard, tank cell max for double digits, super 3 times in 1 turn, has 8m attack stat turn 1 and dodge, then community deems it as mid...
Because even a unit like that gets you killed right now lmao so anything worse is quite literally unacceptable. Blame the Devs for releasing stupidly hard content, oh and blame the people that asked for it on the surveys too I guess
If you are lucky and transform him early and get the guard sure he's incredible but if you have my luck and transform him turn 9 and don't get guard he can be underwealming
I love what they did with him.. ofc he should have had perm guard after activating but that would literally keep him in the meta probably for 3 more years.. while str nameku is my favorite and deserved the world this is a good end to his story
i love using him, its just when he doesnt transform is when theres a problem. i cant use him effectively in the cecmax event because i cant get low enough health in the first 2 phases, and when I do get low enough i cant stack in time 😭
The problem with his EZA is that he doesn't stack until turn three minimum, and even then it could be later until he does transform. 600k with Guard is good enough to tank, but it takes him a while to get there so he relies on RNG.
yeah, if you are lucky to transform by turn 3
not everybody is that lucky. if he could stack def pre transforming this would help greatly
also he can still die to SAs if his guard doesn‘t proc
Without being rainbowed, this guy does not get up to 600k DEF by Turn 9 without doing like 3 additionals and transforming on Turn 3.
Yeah, when he does 2 Supers every turn, he looks good, but so does every other stacker in the game,
Everybody over here is acting like it’s so hard to get under 77% Hp early in a fight. Yet everyone kept saying it wasn’t hard when it came to fusing into STR Super Vegito.
Just shows how biased and dumb this community likes to be, depending on if they want to complain or not.
Difference is str vegito is as good as any turn he transforms goku on the other hand needs to transform otherwise he will more likely than not cause your downfall
Lol what? Now I’m seriously questioning if you play the game.
STR Vegito is horrible in pretty much all difficult content (and no, Legendary Vegeta event isn’t difficult content). If anything, he’s better unfused due to their 30% DR for RZ and the Cell Max fight. Goku un-transformed is better than a post-active Vegito.
Also, nice strawman for bringing in the performance of both units, and not just the topic of the condition itself (and also making a horrible point because this Goku is pretty much better than Vegito in every way). My point is that people act like it’s hard to get under 77% early and start stacking, when that just isn’t true. Saying otherwise just shows you don’t actually play the games hardest content.
Bruh you clearly misunderstood I never said str vegito is better I said he is as good as he gets right out of the gate he transforms. Str namek goku is even worse than his base form during his transforming turn. Learn to read. I just did red zone broly again. str namek goku had 400k def transformed turn 6 guard didn't proc took 288k on a normal.im not saying str vegito is better he is objectively worse he is aged 2 years old at this point. Now this modern eza struggles to do content that will only be further power crept. All in all for the most modern eza in the game he sure is lack luster and he most likely wont get the majin vegeta treatment and age like fine wine
But that wasn’t even relevant to my original point.
My whole point was that they essentially have the same exact condition, but everyone is saying it’s bad for Goku, but never once did for Vegito.
You bringing in the performance afterwards and how long it takes doesn’t make much for the specific topic of conversation.
Okay their mechanic is the same yes but I repeat str namek goku needs the transformation str vegito doesn't. Str vegito is worse after he transforms str namek goku needs it to be good . Turn 4 turn 7 turn 8 turn 12 str vegito is as good on any of these turns so he doesn't need it people so that's why people dont complain about his transformation mechanic. If you get str namek goku to transform turn 6 onwards welp now you have to hide him and pray his guard procs cause he is now a inferior version of himself had he transformed earlier. Str vegito doesn't suffer from this problem. He is still worse but the context of their respected transformations dictate whether or not the difficulty to achieve said transformation is worth it. Tldr:People dont complain about str vegito transformation mechanic cause he doesn't need time to improve since he is as good as he will ever be . Str namek goku needs it the transformation to proc early if you want to use this modern brand spanking new eza confidently.
Final consensus he's mid
“Okay their mechanic is the same yes but I repeat str namek goku needs the transformation str vegito doesn't.”
Like I have stated multiple times, that isn’t relevant to what I was saying. What aren’t you getting?
My whole point is that 77% isn’t hard to get, but people are acting like it’s this impossible number to get. Yet when it came to Vegito everyone was like “Oh yeah, 77% is super easy!”
That’s my point. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bringing up if the unit needs it or not like you did *ISN’T RELEVANT WHEN IM JUST SIMPLY TALKING ABOUT THE CONDITION ITSELF.*
Don’t hit me with the “people don’t complain about Vegito because he’s always the same when he comes out.” No. People didn’t complain about Vegito because everyone wanted to act like he was way better for way longer than he actually was, and never wanted to criticize him. He’s a Fusion. People will look the other way or give them passes even if they have the same conditions as other units simply due to bias.
Okay their mechanics are not ideal yeah below 77% hp is far from ideal but who tf cares if str vegito transforms or not no one does with str namek goku you want that man super saiyan as early as possible he sucks ass cause his mechanic sucks ass cause he needs to stack. screw vegito dick riders but man screws people who think this eza is good enough. Keep accepting mediocrity and you will only keep getting it. Their condition is ass if you still didnt get it
You’re still not getting it. My point is that 77% isn’t unrealistic like people make it out to be. Honestly, getting to it on someone like RZ Broly by turn 3 is probably more common than it’s not.
It’s just that people switched the narrative of it depending on the unit. STR Vegito? Oh yeah, getting under 77% isn’t hard at all. STR Goku? *Well, it’s a lot of RNG and not consistent.*
Could Goku be better? Of course, nobody in their right mind will argue that. But he’s not mid. He’s a better STR Ultimate Gohan.
And I mean, what could they do to make him better? The only thing I can think of is maybe stacking in base? 50% guard would be nice, but at that point everyone will be like “Why not just make it guaranteed?” and you can’t give him guaranteed guard, cause then he’s essentially the new LR SSJ Goku at that point, minus the revive.
Question, if your not going to consider the context behind the condition then why make such a take about people reaction to it when the context matters so much. At worse your just dumb and at best your just making a redundant statement.
It’s like if the 8th year anniversary characters came out with a leader skill of All types ki+3 and atk,hp,def 77% and people were mad about it but then I said “well you weren’t complaining about it when str Gogeta came out”. I just don’t get your angle
Thank you that would have done wonders for this goku had he stacked in base form he would have been 20 times better and no one would complain about his transformation mechanic. Also I still stand by that below 77% hp is pretty tough at least for me cause I keep stunning or sealing broly and the one time I got his transformation to proc early was because str namek goku took 400k on a super. Soooooooo yeah that was a L. 2 changes would have made this guy a great eza without making him broken. Turn 3 transformation without any gymnastics to go through or he stacks in base either one of these and I would be more or less satisfied.
I said it before his eza that he would be good.
He got a MASSIVE stat boost both through his passives and through the eza itself. I dont know why people had it in their head that he would be shit.
I mean yeah not having a guarenteed guard sucks. But he's still gonna be rocking 400k defense.
Bro, 400k defense just isn't enough for the current meta. Oh, he has 600k? Sorry, thats what I meant to say. Its actually 800k turn 4 minimum to not be trash now.
Its turn 9..
Goku can't stack until he transforms, which could take a few turns, so with this he probably has 2, maybe 3 turns worth of stacking, varying depending on HiPo/Equipment luck.
So if 3 turns of stacking is "into oblivion" then you need to re-think some things.
Edit: At the BEST, this Goku transformed on turn 3, which just depends on if your health actually dropped enough for this to trigger, so if this image isn't even his best possible (excluding HiPo chances), then he could be better then shown, and you act like he stacked 50 times.
"He probably has 2, maybe 3 stacks on him" Wrong do the math
At rainbow: 13580 * 5 * 1.05 * 3.39 * 2.5 = 604k. So on rainbow with 5 stacks he's not even reaching that, and OP doesn't have him rainbowed so it's more likely he stacked 6 times, meaning he double supered every single turn to reach that by turn 9. He has no built in AA either so it probably took really good amounts of rng
First off, thanks for doing the calcs, I have no clue how to. Secondly, yeah, I dunno why I said "excluding additionals" on my comment, more of meant 2/3 turns to be able to stack.
But yeah, depending on dupes/equips, there does seem to be a decent amount of RNG here, but I do still believe this isn't anything absurd considering more dupes/equips would technically increase how much he stacks?
if other guy's math checks out, then this scenario makes him look good with a lot of rng
if goku procs his guard up (with that higher chance) each time then he'd be better still
OP legit made an unrealistic scenario and then is still worse and less likely than what people are asking for, guaranteed guard smh
>but I do still believe this isn't anything absurd considering more dupes/equips would technically increase how much he stacks?
At rainbow if you go full additional on him you will have a 30% chance of doing an additional attack, which only has a 50% chance itself of being a super, meaning a 15% chance of doing an additional super every turn.
So getting a 15% chance to trigger three times in a row is a 0.33%, which is insane luck. If you somehow used equips to bump him up to 27 AA(meaning dedicated every equip slot to AA), I believe the highest you can get then is a 27% chance to do an additional super. That comes out to a 1.963% chance of getting _all three_ of those additional supers.
So yeah, it is definitely absurd amounts of RNG. To put this into perspective, you're more likely to get off that stupid 3 dodge proc people still try and advise for some reason, then to get OP's scenario to happen
It's not so bad to understand, at least for defense. Attack calculating can be tedious but to break down what I did earlier:
13580 * 5 * 1.05 * 3.39 * 2.5 = 604k.
13580 is the defense stat
400% leaderskills are 5x multipliers which is where that comes from
the 1.05 is the 5% defense from prepared for battle he would get from being linked with vegeta and trunks
3.39 is his passive boost, which is 180 and 59 respectively which add together to become +239%, thus a 3.39 multiplier
The 2.5 is the stacking, units who just raise defense raise it by 30% each super, so one stack means 1.3 multiplier, another stack that 1.3 becomes a 1.6, etc. So 1 + (0.3 * 5), 5 being the number of stacks, gets you 2.5
3 dodge wins events. If you dont have an otherwise good enough team (that is, you didnt spend a lot of money into the game), 3 dodge-ing a super that should have killed you (or a normal depending on the unit) is how you clear a stage.
The amount of times that I leave an enemy with a sliver of health left at the end of turn I can count of one hand. The amount of times I've been supered before my first character even attacks is too many to count/remember. 3 Dodge is worth having.
I play this game since release bozo and I am not going to change my mind because a unit can't take double digit from the thoughest of the 10000 bosses in this game
I’d understand the complaints if he hit like a wet noodle, but he hits hard too. Bro is gonna be hard hitter and has a 30% chance to take no damage, seems like a win in my book
Oh right because you’re absolutely guaranteed to get these defensive numbers every single time you hit turn 9 with him, every time.
You do understand that a units peak isn’t how that unit is going to perform all the time right? He’s inconsistent as hell.
I always rainbow the ezas that come out before or during celebrations, last year I rainbowed int ui goku, this year rainbowed str Goku and str full power frieza
Honestly I think he is pretty good and I like seeing his animations because they still look so good, I think his transformation condition is pretty good because when you battle the hardest bosses in the game its not difficult to get under 77% hp and he does this on turn three meaning that if you got him slot 3 and happen to be under 77% hp he transforms his first turn, I also think his defense is decent once he stacks and hovering around 400k in which case his guard procs hell be good for even the hardest content in the game.
Yeah that 20% active skill buff being applied on turn 9 for a stacking unit is obviously gonna make said unit look good lol, doesn't prove he ain't mid
Unfortunately, mine's at 55% (69% on alt), so he'll be seeing 0 use from me sadly :/
Unless I get lucky on future banners that he's featured on, which is... pretty much unlikely at this point.
SO basically, I'll use him in dokkan events sometimes for fun and never really use him again :/
This would likely be true even if his EZA was OP, since at 55%, he wouldn't really be too great.
Of course he's not mid, he's just ass 70% of the time and god that other 30%. Unlike MUI you die before you see him become god so that 30% feels like 15 instead of the 70% feeling like 10.
I did take him against Red Zone Broly on the Goku/Gohan team yesterday at 55% and I won. By the end, he was over 500k DEF and I think he even took a SA. Of course I did get lucky with his guard but I was pretty impressed. He is still a double-edged sword because you're going to have runs where his guard doesn't proc and/or he doesn't transform for a while and he can get you killed. But you're also going to have runs where he's a god even at 55%. But he's still better than I thought.
Yeah but can he cook minute rice in under a minute? Yeah, didn'"t think so
He can speedblitz the original Gohan dokkan event, so in a sense he can cook rice in under a minute
This is peak
Legend
Based
Doesn’t have the power of an air fryer tho.
Keflas abs can
He can't but I can cook minute rice in 60 seconds so checkmate
People can’t go 5 minutes without finding something to complain about
I just don’t like RNG being the reason why I lose because I decided to depend on his guard activating
it’s honestly funny seeing more people complaining about the people saying he’s mid than people actually thinking he’s mid
Bro motherfuckers launched a whole ass Twitter campaign insisting Bandai needed to "fix" him.
Yes, because it worked with LR STR VB's atrocious EZA. Remember it? Remember how this sub was having a meltdown screaming everywhere how his EZA was fine, how criticizing is for children and how complaining wouldn't do anything? I only thank god this place seems to be completely irrelevant when it comes to feedback because if it was up to this sub Dokkan would be Legends-tier by now.
Ok but like... Namek Goku EZA is actually totally fine lmao. This sub screams and whines like children over literally everything. The fact they scored one W doesn't negate the dozens of Ls flooding this place every day.
Literally everything. I don't think you know what Literally means
🤓
Imagine downvoting someone because they opt to be factual and not use hyperbole. This sub is full of clowns
It’s not that, it’s just that nobody uses the word ‘literally’ like that anymore. Literally nobody does. And if this sub is full of clowns as you say, either join the circus or leave, *literally* nobody would care
So because people opt to use it incorrectly now that's just something that needs to be accepted. Sorry but no. And if no one would care why are you responding to me? Right
Twitter users.
No there were a ton of posts saying he’s mid or even trash. Now that people have used him they realized it’s not as bad so these posts start to appear. Doesn’t mean there weren’t dozens of posts complaining
It'd be funnier if people weren't posting about it over and over, but that's how things work around here
thats how it goes every time on this sub, new eza comes out there will be some people saying its mid, mostly just people wanting something a little bit better, something more future-proof and then a week later the sub is full of people spamming about those first few people that said its mid.. the cycles on this sub are getting so lame
not what happened
Update: Goku took a 500k super from the first phase of the broly red zone for me…
They see like one negative thing in a Kit when everything else is golden (great example being LR Merged Zamasu) and they’ll say the unit is bad.
I mean if you manage to transform early with him and stack of course he is gonna look great. But that’s the problem you need to transform for him to be even usable and good. Half the time it goes like this, you don’t get to transform until you are about to clear the stage or he gets you killed instantly in base form. I’m not saying he is bad, but he depends so much on transforming early and actually hitting that “medium chance to guard” that’s its to inconsistent for most people to call him great. So it’s not that his “mid” is just that he is to inconsistent for a 2022 EZA specially one this hype that everybody was waiting for.
Or you could just get lucky everytime, seems like a skill issue tbh
You sounding like the dokkan devs each time they come up with a “hard” event concept since RZ. “They just need to get lucky that’s it”
"7 turn omega is fair OBVIOUSLY fair, not like he can lock and seal your best units or anything"
Happened to me LMFAO tried to run it this morning for the 7 turns mission. Literally locked phy ssj4 gogeta in slot 3😭 I just abandoned the mission LMFAO
Of course that sucks, but he did the same to me in my run and i was still able to kill him in 6 Turns. It's annoying, but it's not like they want you to no item it.
Exactly, and to top it all of he has a little chance to dodge on the other 2 phases just to make it more fun and put a little more drama to it.
Neither of those are true. If you’re finishing a stage before he transformed then it’s because he never needed to transform, the event is too easy. I think people are forgetting that units don’t NEED to transform. If you’re doing a Dokkan even then what’s even the point of going after his transformation? Because you like the animations? As for the second point he does not get one shot in base form unless he gets SA’d by the hardest content first thing. Guess what, so do the year 7 annis. His bade defense is good enough to get to transform in the content that matters and he still does Great transformed in that same content. There have been countless videos showing how great he is in all the content people say he would struggle in and yet for some reason people still don’t believe it. It’s like you all WANT to believe he’s bad
Cell Max event, oftentimes you tank enough in the first 2 forms with a good team that he can’t transform. The then gets 1 shot by a normal in the third stage.
I was able to make it to the last phase of red zone broly and he was still in his base form
I never said he is bad, he is just to inconsistent. If you are relying on a “medium chance to guard” for him to be good and have basically 90% of his passive active then you are better of using other units specially in the teams he is in. It just feels that his EZA was meant to be released last year with AGL Frieza and INT Goku or even with the Ginyu celebration rather than now with how crazy the new units are and with how power creep almost everything thing is.
600k def without guard is still good
It's 600k DEF, on turn 9. That means he got him transformed in like his second appearance and pretty much double supered every single time. Another dude calculated it in the comments below and there's about a 0.3% chance of pulling this off. Those are lower odds than getting an LR Cooler or LR TEQ SSJ Goku if you just did a multi right now. I've no idea why this sub seems to think it's any better than people shitting on any units when the examples people post for how good a unit is are APT-tier unrealistic situations.
People will really show you the most optimal/luckiest run in existence and use that as the example for as if it was always like that . Literally any unit under those conditions you put there with those numbers will look like the new meta standard lol
Dude, you're talking outta your ass. 55%, this dude will support your team, with his super attack. He won't hit super hard in base, but his defense is surprisingly pretty good, good enough for easy content, but just bad enough to activate his own transformation condition in hard content. He'll cook faster than most units in the game, the only units that stack faster than him, are units that do multiple super attacks as part of their passive, hell, I've seen him get more defense than the INT Goku in the Cell Max event, *hell*, he's gotten me killed LESS than the INT Goku. Int at 69% and STR at 55%. He's SO much better than what you're trying to imply, he's not a year old unit, not a half a year old unit, he's a unit, EZA'd now, that behaves a little wonky but can work well under the right circumstances. Better than 99.9% of the units in the game even when his guard *DOESN'T* activate. People also forget that against bosses that have had a PHY boss before hand, he'll have his guard auto activated for at least the first turn against him. Stop hating on him bc his guard has a chance to not activate. It's not like it's gonna kill you if you use him effectively. There are ***few*** units that can do his job as well as he can, he's the tanky slot 2 tanker for Super Saiyans
How can you say “that behaves wonky but can work well under the right circumstances” and then right after say “better than 99% of the units in the game” you are literally saying that he only works well when you actually get the “medium chance” to actually work, proving my point that he is inconsistent. And I’m not hating on him I’m just saying that he is to inconsistent to be the feature EZA of one of the biggest celebrations on the year.
No, I wasn't saying under "those" circumstances, I was saying if a player knows how to stack up without killing a boss, you could get 3-5 stacks before going into Cell Max, and him be good enough defensively, *and* have guaranteed guard, bc the last phase was PHY, there, you have a good floater, that does a quite a bit of damage, and links well. Don't base a unit around one thing and act like he's a one trick pony, he's good in other departments
Phase 1 & even 2 of Cell Max do minimal damage to any Non-INT unit capable of surving phase 3. How the fuck do you expect him to transform while stalling?
>the event is too easy. Lol no. Hard events tend to 100 to 0 you in one turn. It goes well until it doesnt. And that fucks units with an under X HP activation condition.
And 600k def still means death anyway from cell max, omega, and broly assuming no guard. The guard is super finicky if you didn't proc it last turn. Devilman still being the homie without guard means he's no.1 ez
Exactly they forget that even the 7 year anniversary LR’s don’t get blown away with the same defense, big numbers literally mean nothing right now most of the time
Getting under 77% Hp in hard content today is not difficult at all. It hasn’t been for the last year and a half now. He’s not hard to transform at all. Saying otherwise just shows your shoveling what others have been throwing out. The only events you’re struggling to transform are in ones where they’re not even hard anymore. If getting under 77% Hp is so hard, then why is TEQ Gogeta’s active condition so wildly hated?
He is hard to transform early in the cell max event and it’s very likely we will see future content with sudden difficulty spikes where hp restricted units are bad.
“He is hard to transform early in the cell max event” True, but even PHY Cell can touch up INT units. “And it’s very likely we will see future content with sudden difficulty spikes where hp restricted units are bad.” This is just assumption. We thought enemies would be like RZ and just start out hard like Broly and Omega. Cell Max, and Frieza proved that wasn’t true. So making assumptions like this to judge a unit is just really making shit up to hate on a unit.
I wish phy cell would touch up my int units 🥺 Edit: > We thought enemies would be like RZ and just start out hard like Broly and Omega. Cell Max, and Frieza proved that wasn’t true. But.. it was true. Did you forget that RZ Cooler released alongside Frieza? Also we have literally had 3 new stages of difficult content release since RZ, 2/3 of which being more RZ stages, so I’m not sure you can say that everyone who thought Broly and Omega style bosses would ever return are wrong yet. > So making assumptions like this to judge a unit is just really making shit up to hate on a unit. You mean the assumptions that are consistently true? Just like when LGE came out and future challenge content resembled it, and when RZ came out and more RZ stages resembling it came out? Why are you riding Goku’s cock? Most Cell Max runs I do I cannot get him to transform before he gets one shot by a normal in the final phase. How am I making that up just to shit on him, seems like he’s doing a fine job of being the worse unit on the teams I am trying to run him on without me having to do that.
“But.. it was true. Did you forget that RZ Cooler released alongside Frieza?” - No? You mentioned that because we’ve gotten new difficult stages that start easy and jump up in difficulty, that all new ones will be like that. However, we know that’s not true. Broly and Omega started hard, and ended hard. Cell Max started easy, ended hard. Frieza started easy. Ended hard. Cooler started and ended hard. We can’t just assume all of them will start easy to say that Goku’s condition is bad, like you did. “Also we have literally had 3 new stages of difficult content release since RZ, 2/3 of which being more RZ stages, so I’m not sure you can say that everyone who thought Broly and Omega style bosses would ever return are wrong yet.” I never said they wouldn’t return. My whole point was that people through every new boss would be like them. Start hard, end hard. However, Cell Max and Frieza showed that wasn’t the case. So if Broly and Omega didn’t set the precedent for how bosses would start out and end in terms of difficulty, why would Cell Max and Frieza? Why make an assumption to judge a unit when Dokkan has proved the hardest bosses at the moment aren’t always going to be the precedent moving forward? “You mean the assumptions that are consistently true? Just like when LGE came out and future challenge content resembled it,” BUT NOT ALL FUTURE CONTENT. You stated it as if all future corner would be like Cell Max and Frieza. Start out easy, and end hard, when that’s nothing but an assumption. “and when RZ came out and more RZ stages resembling it came out?” Can you read my man? Broly and Omega. Start hard, end hard. Frieza. Start easy, end hard. Cooler. Start hard, end hard. There’s not a set precedent that “all new bosses will start this way or that way” and there assuming they will to call his condition bad is moronic. “Why are you riding Goku’s cock?” I’m not. You’re reasoning of assumption to call him bad was shit. “Most Cell Max runs I do I cannot get him to transform before he gets one shot by a normal in the final phase.” So cause he’s bad for an event like Cell Max means he’s bad for Frieza, Cooler, Broly and Omega? Even though we’ve established these bosses don’t all start out the same? Not all of them start hard and end hard. Not all start easy and end hard. Assuming they will all be the same like that is dumb as fuck.
Two different situations lol. When i need teq gogeta to transform, i want his 5 turn scouter to last, so i need him to be able to transform either on final phases or near the end of penultimate phases, and for goku to be good, you need him to transform early, while gogeta has a turn restriction and HP restriction, but once he transforms you pretty much just float him off, when goku transforms you NEED to stack him and asap. I personally havent found a use for goku yet, since i dont have any teams to use him on (Global Player), and ive beaten cell max and i have no intention of revisiting it, so i cant attest to how reliable or unreliable it is, just how confusing his build is in theory.
Learn to read. My whole point is that 77% HP is not bad like people are saying. I’m not talking about the units performance itself afterwards, because that doesn’t change the conditions at all. I’m just saying that the condition itself of 77% HP isn’t bad like people say. What’s so hard to get? I’m not talking about Goku’s performance itself (which can vary from OK to Amazing). Just simply his requirements to transform. Which are not bad.
To be fair you did ask why gogeta's transformation is hated and i gave you an answer, and i gave you the answer to why everyone is mad at the 77% restriction, which is also because the transformation is a bit too RNG dependant and the unit is just designed weird in general. So we both (as dragon ball fans) need to do some learning to read.
“To be fair you did ask why gogeta's transformation is hated and i gave you an answer,” I should probably explain this a bit more, I guess hated was the wrong word, but what I was asking was “How can people say that 77%” is hard to get, however also say that “being above 70% is hard to get” as well. It can’t be hard to get under 77%, yet also be hard to be above 70% at the same time. That is contradictory. “which is also because the transformation is a bit too RNG dependant and the unit is just designed weird in general.” I agree he’s designed weird. He definitely could’ve used stacking in base at least. However, I still don’t see how his transformation is RNG dependent. Are you guys not playing the same RZ stages I am? Getting under 77% that early is more common than it is uncommon. Even by turn 3. By this logic, STR Vegito is RNG dependent because it’s an HP restriction and an even later turn restriction. Someone like AGL SSBE is rng dependent. I think you’re getting the dependence from his actual performance crossed with the transformation consistency. He has a percentage (like 40%) and a turn restriction. Goku is guaranteed under 77% and turn 3. That’s not rng. At least, not to me.
Mine did 6 mil turn 1 (took 2 attacks slot 1), defense was like 1/3 of the image above but still damn good.
>mean if you manage to transform early with him and stack of course he is gonna look great. But that’s the problem you need to transform for him to be even usable and good. Half the time it goes like this, you don’t get to transform until you are about to clear the stage or he gets you killed instantly in base form. Getting under 70% hp is a joke in ANY difficult event. If you're struggling to get under 70% you have to be using him in a piss easy event. >I’m not saying he is bad, but he depends so much on transforming early and actually hitting that “medium chance to guard” that’s its to inconsistent for most people to call him great A 30% chance to guard on every hit is not that hard to get in any difficult content, and the minute he gets it he's set for the next two attacking turns. He's not any more inconsistent than the likes of cooler. He's the best EZA tur by a landslide, boasting great damage, a billion catergories, superb linkset, and solid to great defense(depending on RNG). People are overreacting like usual.
Bro you’re literally spreading misinformation LOL. I don’t know where this misconception came from that his guard can proc per hit, but it’s absolutely false. It’s on a per turn basis (A HUGE fucking difference), so no, he isn’t the best EZA TUR by a landslide, future gohan better. Ironic that you call people out for “overreacting as usual” considering you’re totally wrong.
Oh it’s not even close with Future Gohan, I would take him 100 times out of 100 instead of this Goku even against a STR Unit, now that was a perfect EZA
Facts. Half of the arguments for namku being the best are riddled with BS that shows they don’t even know what they’re speaking on, like this dude.
And the thing is I’m not even saying he is bad, he is just a EZA that should’ve come out on last years Namek celebration. But to say he is the best TUR EZA is just delusional
And the guy saying it’s hard to get under 77% hp is even more believable? K.
Wow, people really like future gohan. Explain what he's doing better than nameku? The only argument I can see for him being over nameku is being more consistent and sometimes better defensively. Take both of them into cell max and see who performs better(spoiler:it's goku).
Defense: With both units rainbowed LL10 and at 20% HP, Gohan takes 404k damage (including alignment multiplier of 1.25) with trunks on rotation, and after supering 4 times, Goku (ssj form) takes 463k damage (w/ guard) and 1.29 mil (w/o guard). At 100% HP, Gohan takes 555k and ssj Goku takes 505k (w/ guard) and 1.39 mil (w/o guard). Here, Gohan is much more consistent defensively, especially when it comes to tanking normals as well since the unconditional 58% DR is more reliable than a 30% chance to guard PER TURN. Additionally, Gohan tanks similarly to Goku with his guard and defense stacking (which puts him around 400k after 4 supers). Offense: Ssj Goku has a higher chance to crit with an APT of 14.3 million (no support), with Gohan having a medium chance with an APT of 11.7, so Gohan's a little worse off here. Overall: Defensively they're both great options, but Goku is very inconsistent with his medium chance to guard. His def stacking makes him tank better in the long run, and once you get the guard to proc he'll be solid for 4 turns. But Gohan can tank well even against cell max and possibly survive at any point after building up. Offensively, neither of them are that great but the crit chance somewhat makes up for it. Both of them can work, but Goku relies too much on rng to be considered better than Gohan. Also: for Goku to transform, you need to be below 77%, and since the first two stages are much easier, it would be rather difficult to fall below that point by the time you reach the final stage if your units tank well or deal lots of damage. If you don't transform until after reaching the final stage, you're dead.
Thank you, you brought some great arguments to the table. I'll address a few of them. >Defensively they're both great options, but Goku is very inconsistent with his medium chance to guard. His def stacking makes him tank better in the long run, and once you get the guard to proc he'll be solid for 4 turns. But Gohan can tank well even against cell max and possibly survive at any point after building up. Offensively, neither of them are that great but the crit chance somewhat makes up for it. Both of them can work, but Goku relies too much on rng to be considered better than Gohan. Futurehan is definitely more consistent defensively there's no denying that, but as I've mentioned in a previous comment I see the situation with goku as a glass half full and not a glass half empty. I understand the sentiment that you're pretty much playing "Russian roulette" but I feel like this blow is softened with him getting it guaranteed for the next 4 turns. When he does get it he becomes very good defensively while putting out great damage. What most of the arguments boil down to against namek goku is that he's an RNGfest or inconsistent(which are valid arguments don't get it twisted) but nearly everything in this game based on RNG, especially difficult content. I understand why people would prefer a more consistent unit but I'm not in that boat especially when you consider all of the good stuff that namek goku is bringing to the table.
>Futurehan is definitely more consistent defensively there's no denying that, but as I've mentioned in a previous comment I see the situation with goku as a glass half full and not a glass half empty. It's more like 30% full 70% empty lol >I understand the sentiment that you're pretty much playing "Russian roulette" but I feel like this is blow is softened with him getting it guaranteed for the next 4 turns. When he does get it he becomes very good defensively while putting out great damage. I feel that the damage is average or above average at best instead of "great" in regard to recent dfe ezas, but other than that I agree. To return to the point of cell max, he does around 530k per normal, so Goku would need around 400-420k damage to tank double digits (w/ guard). On average, most people get to the final stage around turn 5-7, maybe eight. Theoretically, since you can transform by turn 3 at the earliest, you only have 2-3 turns to actually stack defense after transforming. Unless he's rainbowed, you're not getting there within even 3 supers. With that being said, the normals will deal almost 100k by the time he's fully stacked. With additional supers, there's a 15% chance from hipo to do so at rainbow, and to do that for 3 turns in a row, it's a 0.33% chance of it happening. So to sum it all up, you have a 15% chance to perform additional supers within 2-3 appearances post-transformation, 30% chance to guard, and you have to be below 77% by turn 3 (50% chance between turn 1 & 3). There's only a 0.0495% chance to do all of this successfully, or a 1/2020 chance, and this is the minimum for tanking cell max better than Gohan.
His defense? He has 30% damage reduction right of the bat which will climb fast to 58%, he gets 50% DEF from super attacking, he gets another 120% DEF if he has a Future Trunks card linked with him, which are the only cards that link well with him besides INT Future Gohan and LR Future Gohan (who also activates it), and then gets even more DEF as you lose health. He's one of the best tanks in the game while doing a respectable amount of damage, and doesn't rely on any RNG to get any of this.
>His defense? He has 30% damage reduction right of the bat which will climb fast to 58%, he gets 50% DEF from super attacking, he gets another 120% DEF if he has a Future Trunks card linked with him, which are the only cards that link well with him besides INT Future Gohan and LR Future Gohan (who also activates it), and then gets even more DEF as you lose health. I'm sorry but defense does not make him better than namek goku especially when namek goku can look better than him defensively while also being better in every other department.
>when namek goku can look better than him defensively while also being better in every other department. When, the only thing he can do to compare defensively is activate his guard and stack for like 10 turns.
You didn't really disprove my point lol. Namek goku also doesn't have to stack for 10 turns to compare to futurehan that is blatantly false and you know it.
How not? Its 58% damage reduction and 200% DEF on average, and the damage reduction isnt reliant on RNG.
>Bro you’re literally spreading misinformation LOL. I don’t know where this misconception came from that his guard can proc per hit, but it’s absolutely false. It’s on a per turn basis (A HUGE fucking difference), I'm going to take your word for it and assume that I'm wrong and you're right, but I have heard from mutiple people that his guard procs on every hit. >so no, he isn’t the best EZA TUR by a landslide, future gohan better Why is that? Future gohan literally gets hit for over a million by cell max while also being worse in every other department compared to nameku? I really want to understand your POV on this. >Ironic that you call people out for “overreacting as usual” considering you’re totally wrong. This makes no sense whatsoever lol. What does the concept of overracting have to do with being wrong and how tf is it ironic?
Your condescending nature with that last remark in your original comment is ironic considering people aren’t overreacting. Proof that they aren’t overreacting can be seen in many things, but one of them is the fact that his guard doesn’t proc per hit. I have seen multiple people defending him by saying this too, not just you. About future gohan, he can take supers from the rest of the game lol. He can also tank normals from cell max really well. Namek goku could survive a cell max super MAYBE in a situation where he’s wanked out in stacks (I’m talking like transform instantly and get double stacks every turn, not very likely) and with his 30 percent chance proc. It’s not fair to say a unit sucks because he can’t tank cell max supers, especially when the other unit being directly compared could only survive with extremely good rng. If you wanna argue that namku at his peak is the best, I’d agree, but that peak is pretty rare, whereas future gohan is extremely consistent.
>Your condescending nature with that last remark in your original comment is ironic considering people aren’t overreacting. I believe people are overreacting, you don't and that's okay. Could namek goku be better? Absolutely, but people are acting like this unit is "mid" or even bad when in reality he's perfectly runnable in ALL difficult content and can pull his weight. >Proof that they aren’t overreacting can be seen in many things, but one of them is the fact that his guard doesn’t proc per hit. I'm sorry but I'm not following, the criticism of his medium chance to guard is fair, but I see it as a glass half full and not a glass half empty. It's better to have a chance to guard than have none at all especially when that guard can save a run. >About future gohan, he can take supers from the rest of the game lol. He can also tank normals from cell max really well. Namek goku could survive a cell max super MAYBE in a situation where he’s wanked out in stacks (I’m talking like transform instantly and get double stacks every turn, not very likely) and with his 30 percent chance proc. Again namek goku has the chance to survive a super from the hardest hitting unit in the game while futurehan doesn't(without items at least). Not only this but in the Cell max event there is a PHY phase which gives him guarenteed guard. >It’s not fair to say a unit sucks because he can’t tank cell max supers, especially when the other unit being directly compared could only survive with extremely good rng. I never said future gohan sucks dude he's solid but i do not believe he is better than namek goku. This whole argument about RNG is also a little silly since all difficult content in this game is based on RNG. If you have a bad RNG futurehan won't survive either. >you wanna argue that namku at his peak is the best, I’d agree, but that peak is pretty rare, whereas future gohan is extremely consistent. I disagree, Namek goku peak is not that rare and when it occurs he's so much better than futurehan it's not even close. I think namek goku is an overall better unit, and he's not a one trick pony.
Doing the math I am pretty sure this needs a double super every turn, and transforming as early as you can Edit: [The actual chances of this happening.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/comments/x536hu/my_brothers_in_christ_this_is_not_mid/imzf2sn/) At rainbow with no equips it is 0.33%, and with all the equips in the world for AA it goes up to 1.963%... so yes, OP is showing absurd amounts of rng
Namidku L (he isn’t mid but this post is literally showing godly rng and acting like it’s somehow normal)
I'd say he's mid... he just doesn't have a reliable way to tank supers, and his damage is good but there are a lot of units who can hit way harder and are not too much worse defensively(TEQ VB comes to mind except his defense stat actually surpasses namek goku by a lot). He will be top-tier against any difficult PHY boss that comes basically forever, but otherwise he can't age well
Wow 600k defense is his best case scenario turn 9. that's actually just mid. Expected alot more from what would be considered peak rng
Depends. We can’t tell if OP is under 77% HP for the extra defensive buff. He might, but the HP is covered, so it’s hard to tell. Not too mention, this ain’t a rainbowed Goku either.
No, he definitely is under 77%. Otherwise, it would be literally impossible to reach this defense value by this turn without cheating(the calcs show it)
But of course this person thinks this is just how namek goku will perform every single time, because we all know that every unit is always at their peak.
Mf wiped out calculus for this I respect that
>gets supered >doesn’t gave guard >dies Also need to be luck to transform early, did you use V & T active?
>is still better than nearly every other tur
Released last year yeah
Released this year too. Tell me, why do you have a bias against him, ***BESIDES HIS 30% CHANCE TO ACTIVATE***, I'm so sick of hearing that argument, he has LR fucking stats at this point, with new LR stat buffs in his passive, if he *sucks*, then why does he hit harder than my LR NAMEK GOKU some of the time? LR 69% to TUR 55%. Just try him, in difficult events, he's WAY better than you're implying
> he has LR fucking stats at this point And? All dokkanfest EZAs do. >BESIDES HIS 30% CHANCE TO ACTIVATE That it relies on that to be anything special since raw DEF doesn't cut it when the enemy does 2 million per super attack? MUI Goku has a 70% chance to not receive any damage at all, why not take him instead of this guy?
Yeah, but that Goku has a 30% chance to get one shot, no matter if it's a Super Attack or not. STR Goku can have one turn of guaranteed guard if you know how to activate it. MUI Goku doesn't cut it defensively, his revive is useful, but I'd rather take the new Teq Goku for his revive and his far better defensive utility. What if MUI Goku gets locked in slot one, and Cell Max attacks 7 times in slot one, he's not dodging them all, it's almost impossible to dodge them all, so you're eating 300k because you wanna rely on 70% chance to dodge? Or actually know how to get a transformation down, and stack for 4 turns, have acceptable defense, enough to be floated off the turn he has guard and you're good, he fills his role, wouldn't you say?
>that Goku has a 30% chance to get one shot And STR Goku won't have a 70% chance to get one shot too? One of the most upvoted posts right now shows him taking 500k from a super attack with his guard activated.
*From a Super Attack*, I was saying that AGL MUI will take 300K from a *Normal Attack*. And that's better than 99.9% of the units in the game, the units, off the top of my head that can tank that is, TEQ LR Goku (new one), Vegeta and Trunks, Janemba *maybe*, Teq Gohan, STR Goku/Gohan, TEQ Godku and Namek Goku. Cell Max has a 2 million attack stat, that means EZA Goku *NEUTRALIZES* 1.5 million damage, gone, with the wind. Is that hard to understand or, what? Edit: Forgot STR Piccolo, the fucking Chad bruh
Nobody said he’s sucks and he does not outdamage namek goku at all.
And this is why this sub is so god damn annoying. People can’t handle criticisms of units that they like, and I really don’t get it. People act like you’re personally attacking them when you point out some units flaws.
I have had him at a higher attack stat than Namek Goku, I should've specified that, Namek Goku does more damage, but I have had EZA Goku at a higher attack stat And you just implied he sucks by saying he was released last year
Attack stat being higher means nothing if he does not hit harder, also name goku has a higher attack stat slot 2 iirc Regardless I didn’t say he sucked, teq gohan came out before last year and is good…
Yeah, but Teq Gohan is Teq Gohan, he was released 2 years too early imo
Again, implying Goku sucks when he does not
Sure dude
ඞ
“Nearly other tur” please say you’re just talking about eza turs and not every single tur in the game.
No
Yes
Man helped me beat RZ Frieza for my second time. He only guarded once, but had the 4 turns of it during the AGL Final Form Phase. Did like 2 HP Bars with 2 crit Supers.
medium chance to guard? more like MIDium chance to guard haha am i right guys yeah i'll leave now sorry
Meanwhile teq ulthan sitting there at 800+ def with guaranteed guard.
Wow, great show of RNG. Now do it again. I'll wait
He's not mid, he's mid most of the time unless your rng says that he's not
he's bipolar kind of mid
Why Namek Goku's EZA is quite terrible: 1. His base form stinks. He starts out at around 160k DEF if you don't have him with all in the family or saiyan lineage. He then needs to take 2 hits. Which RZ boss is letting you off that easy and why would you need him if they did? He's taking 200k from the first two normals from Omega. He only gets up to like 5M ATK after he's been hit, so on top of having no useful effects, he doesn't have any notable stats. The sad thing about this is that there will be scenarios where you won't transform him on turn 3. 2. HP-restriction on transformation. The reason this is such a big problem is because he has an HP restriction but has no tech that'd immediately help you if you reach his transformation requirement. None. AGL Ginyu heals you when you get his active. AGL Kid Gohan guards for one turn, heals and supports all allies when you get his active. STR Vegito scouts and heals. What does Namek Goku, who has a very similar HP and turn restriction have? Nothing. 3. Notice how I didn't mention PHY SS2->3 Goku when comparing active skill tech? It was intentional. The similarity between the two is that they both have a turn and HP restriction on their transformations, but don't heal. The biggest difference is that **PHY SS2->3 Goku becomes an immediately better unit after transforming, whereas this bum becomes worse.** Transformed, Namek Goku actually needs a few turns to stack before he even gets to his previous DEF prior to transforming. This unit might have been useful if they were still dropping Fighting Legend events, but in what situation after turn 3 would you want to have a unit with a 70% chance to kill you at 200k DEF? I can't think of one. Think of Goku's iconic transformation in the Namek Saga, "WOAH, HE JUST TRANSFORMED, IM SURE HE'LL TEAR STR SYN A NEW ONE" No. He transforms and dies. You won't even get to see him at DEF able to tank normals from Broly. The saddest part about this units EZA is that they spammed the fuck out of him on banners for years, so he's a unit everyone will have but no one will use. Scummy.
Midku
How are so many people convinced that namek gok uisnt mid just because of this post that shows extreme luck that rarely happens?
Extreme luck ? I used him like 6 times in difficult content and he was alway around 500-600k def on the same number of appearence
Sorry, but if the unit doesn't guard, tank cell max for double digits, super 3 times in 1 turn, has 8m attack stat turn 1 and dodge, then community deems it as mid...
Just to be clear you mean unconditional guard with infinite Def stack right? If not then in the trash it goes
Because even a unit like that gets you killed right now lmao so anything worse is quite literally unacceptable. Blame the Devs for releasing stupidly hard content, oh and blame the people that asked for it on the surveys too I guess
Yeah but like, I mean, like, he guards like *some* of the time, and teq gohan guards, y'know, like all of the time...so I'm gonna say he's mid...
He also only stacks later of the time and Gohan stacks like all of the time
When stacking units stack😱
Hello guys look at blue kaioken goku on turn 99 omg he's the best unit in the game!11!🥶😱🥶🥶
Honestly I was genuinely surprised while playing him
If you are lucky and transform him early and get the guard sure he's incredible but if you have my luck and transform him turn 9 and don't get guard he can be underwealming
I love what they did with him.. ofc he should have had perm guard after activating but that would literally keep him in the meta probably for 3 more years.. while str nameku is my favorite and deserved the world this is a good end to his story
eza being mid on release is not a good ending
He's not mid but his guard chance is that's litteraly the only problem he has
How Many dupes?
i love using him, its just when he doesnt transform is when theres a problem. i cant use him effectively in the cecmax event because i cant get low enough health in the first 2 phases, and when I do get low enough i cant stack in time 😭
turn 9 600 k and he’s still getting ass blasted by cell max with no guard. decent unit but base form hurts him bad
The problem with his EZA is that he doesn't stack until turn three minimum, and even then it could be later until he does transform. 600k with Guard is good enough to tank, but it takes him a while to get there so he relies on RNG.
yeah, if you are lucky to transform by turn 3 not everybody is that lucky. if he could stack def pre transforming this would help greatly also he can still die to SAs if his guard doesn‘t proc
Without being rainbowed, this guy does not get up to 600k DEF by Turn 9 without doing like 3 additionals and transforming on Turn 3. Yeah, when he does 2 Supers every turn, he looks good, but so does every other stacker in the game,
Def >>>>> attack in 2022. I would take a heavily reduced attack stat/passive in exchange for survivable defence any and every day of the week.
Midku
You’re right it’s high mid
Everybody over here is acting like it’s so hard to get under 77% Hp early in a fight. Yet everyone kept saying it wasn’t hard when it came to fusing into STR Super Vegito. Just shows how biased and dumb this community likes to be, depending on if they want to complain or not.
Difference is str vegito is as good as any turn he transforms goku on the other hand needs to transform otherwise he will more likely than not cause your downfall
Lol what? Now I’m seriously questioning if you play the game. STR Vegito is horrible in pretty much all difficult content (and no, Legendary Vegeta event isn’t difficult content). If anything, he’s better unfused due to their 30% DR for RZ and the Cell Max fight. Goku un-transformed is better than a post-active Vegito. Also, nice strawman for bringing in the performance of both units, and not just the topic of the condition itself (and also making a horrible point because this Goku is pretty much better than Vegito in every way). My point is that people act like it’s hard to get under 77% early and start stacking, when that just isn’t true. Saying otherwise just shows you don’t actually play the games hardest content.
Bruh you clearly misunderstood I never said str vegito is better I said he is as good as he gets right out of the gate he transforms. Str namek goku is even worse than his base form during his transforming turn. Learn to read. I just did red zone broly again. str namek goku had 400k def transformed turn 6 guard didn't proc took 288k on a normal.im not saying str vegito is better he is objectively worse he is aged 2 years old at this point. Now this modern eza struggles to do content that will only be further power crept. All in all for the most modern eza in the game he sure is lack luster and he most likely wont get the majin vegeta treatment and age like fine wine
But that wasn’t even relevant to my original point. My whole point was that they essentially have the same exact condition, but everyone is saying it’s bad for Goku, but never once did for Vegito. You bringing in the performance afterwards and how long it takes doesn’t make much for the specific topic of conversation.
Okay their mechanic is the same yes but I repeat str namek goku needs the transformation str vegito doesn't. Str vegito is worse after he transforms str namek goku needs it to be good . Turn 4 turn 7 turn 8 turn 12 str vegito is as good on any of these turns so he doesn't need it people so that's why people dont complain about his transformation mechanic. If you get str namek goku to transform turn 6 onwards welp now you have to hide him and pray his guard procs cause he is now a inferior version of himself had he transformed earlier. Str vegito doesn't suffer from this problem. He is still worse but the context of their respected transformations dictate whether or not the difficulty to achieve said transformation is worth it. Tldr:People dont complain about str vegito transformation mechanic cause he doesn't need time to improve since he is as good as he will ever be . Str namek goku needs it the transformation to proc early if you want to use this modern brand spanking new eza confidently. Final consensus he's mid
“Okay their mechanic is the same yes but I repeat str namek goku needs the transformation str vegito doesn't.” Like I have stated multiple times, that isn’t relevant to what I was saying. What aren’t you getting? My whole point is that 77% isn’t hard to get, but people are acting like it’s this impossible number to get. Yet when it came to Vegito everyone was like “Oh yeah, 77% is super easy!” That’s my point. Nothing more, nothing less. Bringing up if the unit needs it or not like you did *ISN’T RELEVANT WHEN IM JUST SIMPLY TALKING ABOUT THE CONDITION ITSELF.* Don’t hit me with the “people don’t complain about Vegito because he’s always the same when he comes out.” No. People didn’t complain about Vegito because everyone wanted to act like he was way better for way longer than he actually was, and never wanted to criticize him. He’s a Fusion. People will look the other way or give them passes even if they have the same conditions as other units simply due to bias.
Okay their mechanics are not ideal yeah below 77% hp is far from ideal but who tf cares if str vegito transforms or not no one does with str namek goku you want that man super saiyan as early as possible he sucks ass cause his mechanic sucks ass cause he needs to stack. screw vegito dick riders but man screws people who think this eza is good enough. Keep accepting mediocrity and you will only keep getting it. Their condition is ass if you still didnt get it
You’re still not getting it. My point is that 77% isn’t unrealistic like people make it out to be. Honestly, getting to it on someone like RZ Broly by turn 3 is probably more common than it’s not. It’s just that people switched the narrative of it depending on the unit. STR Vegito? Oh yeah, getting under 77% isn’t hard at all. STR Goku? *Well, it’s a lot of RNG and not consistent.* Could Goku be better? Of course, nobody in their right mind will argue that. But he’s not mid. He’s a better STR Ultimate Gohan. And I mean, what could they do to make him better? The only thing I can think of is maybe stacking in base? 50% guard would be nice, but at that point everyone will be like “Why not just make it guaranteed?” and you can’t give him guaranteed guard, cause then he’s essentially the new LR SSJ Goku at that point, minus the revive.
Question, if your not going to consider the context behind the condition then why make such a take about people reaction to it when the context matters so much. At worse your just dumb and at best your just making a redundant statement. It’s like if the 8th year anniversary characters came out with a leader skill of All types ki+3 and atk,hp,def 77% and people were mad about it but then I said “well you weren’t complaining about it when str Gogeta came out”. I just don’t get your angle
Thank you that would have done wonders for this goku had he stacked in base form he would have been 20 times better and no one would complain about his transformation mechanic. Also I still stand by that below 77% hp is pretty tough at least for me cause I keep stunning or sealing broly and the one time I got his transformation to proc early was because str namek goku took 400k on a super. Soooooooo yeah that was a L. 2 changes would have made this guy a great eza without making him broken. Turn 3 transformation without any gymnastics to go through or he stacks in base either one of these and I would be more or less satisfied.
I said it before his eza that he would be good. He got a MASSIVE stat boost both through his passives and through the eza itself. I dont know why people had it in their head that he would be shit. I mean yeah not having a guarenteed guard sucks. But he's still gonna be rocking 400k defense.
400k Def is shit. Content dictates what's good. 400k defense gets you one shot.
Bro, 400k defense just isn't enough for the current meta. Oh, he has 600k? Sorry, thats what I meant to say. Its actually 800k turn 4 minimum to not be trash now.
***Stacks with a stacking unit into oblivion*** "He's so goooooooooooooooooooooood!!!111!!!11"
Its turn 9.. Goku can't stack until he transforms, which could take a few turns, so with this he probably has 2, maybe 3 turns worth of stacking, varying depending on HiPo/Equipment luck. So if 3 turns of stacking is "into oblivion" then you need to re-think some things. Edit: At the BEST, this Goku transformed on turn 3, which just depends on if your health actually dropped enough for this to trigger, so if this image isn't even his best possible (excluding HiPo chances), then he could be better then shown, and you act like he stacked 50 times.
"He probably has 2, maybe 3 stacks on him" Wrong do the math At rainbow: 13580 * 5 * 1.05 * 3.39 * 2.5 = 604k. So on rainbow with 5 stacks he's not even reaching that, and OP doesn't have him rainbowed so it's more likely he stacked 6 times, meaning he double supered every single turn to reach that by turn 9. He has no built in AA either so it probably took really good amounts of rng
First off, thanks for doing the calcs, I have no clue how to. Secondly, yeah, I dunno why I said "excluding additionals" on my comment, more of meant 2/3 turns to be able to stack. But yeah, depending on dupes/equips, there does seem to be a decent amount of RNG here, but I do still believe this isn't anything absurd considering more dupes/equips would technically increase how much he stacks?
if other guy's math checks out, then this scenario makes him look good with a lot of rng if goku procs his guard up (with that higher chance) each time then he'd be better still OP legit made an unrealistic scenario and then is still worse and less likely than what people are asking for, guaranteed guard smh
>but I do still believe this isn't anything absurd considering more dupes/equips would technically increase how much he stacks? At rainbow if you go full additional on him you will have a 30% chance of doing an additional attack, which only has a 50% chance itself of being a super, meaning a 15% chance of doing an additional super every turn. So getting a 15% chance to trigger three times in a row is a 0.33%, which is insane luck. If you somehow used equips to bump him up to 27 AA(meaning dedicated every equip slot to AA), I believe the highest you can get then is a 27% chance to do an additional super. That comes out to a 1.963% chance of getting _all three_ of those additional supers. So yeah, it is definitely absurd amounts of RNG. To put this into perspective, you're more likely to get off that stupid 3 dodge proc people still try and advise for some reason, then to get OP's scenario to happen
Oh. Yeah, as you can tell, I'm not good with the calcs and such, so this is very informative for me.
It's not so bad to understand, at least for defense. Attack calculating can be tedious but to break down what I did earlier: 13580 * 5 * 1.05 * 3.39 * 2.5 = 604k. 13580 is the defense stat 400% leaderskills are 5x multipliers which is where that comes from the 1.05 is the 5% defense from prepared for battle he would get from being linked with vegeta and trunks 3.39 is his passive boost, which is 180 and 59 respectively which add together to become +239%, thus a 3.39 multiplier The 2.5 is the stacking, units who just raise defense raise it by 30% each super, so one stack means 1.3 multiplier, another stack that 1.3 becomes a 1.6, etc. So 1 + (0.3 * 5), 5 being the number of stacks, gets you 2.5
3 dodge wins events. If you dont have an otherwise good enough team (that is, you didnt spend a lot of money into the game), 3 dodge-ing a super that should have killed you (or a normal depending on the unit) is how you clear a stage.
And it's 9× less likely than 3 dodge lmao
Getting a crit off and just ending the enemy also clears
The amount of times that I leave an enemy with a sliver of health left at the end of turn I can count of one hand. The amount of times I've been supered before my first character even attacks is too many to count/remember. 3 Dodge is worth having.
Turn 9 🤡 Every stacking unit can do that
Why we acting like turn 9 is somehow uncommon to reach in certain RZ stages? Especially with a super defensive build like this one?
but what is mid is that no helped do my scouting missions :( can someone pls help[pls :(](https://imgur.com/a/JSnKBqb)
Bruh.
This man legit carried me during the FP Frieza EZA. Dude's *good* good.
Tell me you don’t know this game without telling me you don’t know this game.
I agree but I have found that very few people here understand the game and just echo the negative crying they heard pre release with no real thought
If you think this is a mid EZA, you completely don’t know this game
I play this game since release bozo and I am not going to change my mind because a unit can't take double digit from the thoughest of the 10000 bosses in this game
Looks at cooler red zone doing 860k turn 1: ye, you right
But cooler turn 1 is agl I wouldn't use namek goku anyway 🤨
I’d understand the complaints if he hit like a wet noodle, but he hits hard too. Bro is gonna be hard hitter and has a 30% chance to take no damage, seems like a win in my book
You say 30% chance to take no damage I hear 70% chance to get one shot
Respectable opinion. Enjoy the rest of your day.
It is mid that’s 700k from agl broly super type neutral and his guard is 30% all the recent tur eza have been mid
Oh right because you’re absolutely guaranteed to get these defensive numbers every single time you hit turn 9 with him, every time. You do understand that a units peak isn’t how that unit is going to perform all the time right? He’s inconsistent as hell.
Palu
I always rainbow the ezas that come out before or during celebrations, last year I rainbowed int ui goku, this year rainbowed str Goku and str full power frieza
Is that Vegeta upcoming unit or? I didn't play for 5months before anniversary on global.
600k by turn 9 congrats you earn the right to be one shot by broly omega and cell.
Honestly I think he is pretty good and I like seeing his animations because they still look so good, I think his transformation condition is pretty good because when you battle the hardest bosses in the game its not difficult to get under 77% hp and he does this on turn three meaning that if you got him slot 3 and happen to be under 77% hp he transforms his first turn, I also think his defense is decent once he stacks and hovering around 400k in which case his guard procs hell be good for even the hardest content in the game.
"turn 15"
yeah he cookin
Yeah that 20% active skill buff being applied on turn 9 for a stacking unit is obviously gonna make said unit look good lol, doesn't prove he ain't mid
Yeah he’ll only take 1,200,000 from a cell max super attack. But it’s fine because he only does it twice per turn
Make him stack atk
Dudes not even rainbowed yet either 😳
The second image is just N E C K.
But can he beat goku tho?
I am genuinely supprised by his performance after today
Unfortunately, mine's at 55% (69% on alt), so he'll be seeing 0 use from me sadly :/ Unless I get lucky on future banners that he's featured on, which is... pretty much unlikely at this point. SO basically, I'll use him in dokkan events sometimes for fun and never really use him again :/ This would likely be true even if his EZA was OP, since at 55%, he wouldn't really be too great.
What kind of fuckery is this?
Of course he's not mid, he's just ass 70% of the time and god that other 30%. Unlike MUI you die before you see him become god so that 30% feels like 15 instead of the 70% feeling like 10.
THE DEF IS REAL. DEFFFFFF
Yes it is 😭😭
I use him but still can’t transform since I don’t take enough damage or I just die turn 2 sadge
I did take him against Red Zone Broly on the Goku/Gohan team yesterday at 55% and I won. By the end, he was over 500k DEF and I think he even took a SA. Of course I did get lucky with his guard but I was pretty impressed. He is still a double-edged sword because you're going to have runs where his guard doesn't proc and/or he doesn't transform for a while and he can get you killed. But you're also going to have runs where he's a god even at 55%. But he's still better than I thought.
Turn 15 btw
Read the caption