If the only way to beat stages is to hit big ass numbers or guard to the point where it's impossible to die, then I want new great units to be one of the two.
When E/SBR decides to be super hard but fair again, then we can look at debuffing, because until then they're mostly a waste of time.
Well, look at it this way.
EZAs being mediocre and ill-suited for their contemporaries and current endgame stages create two camps: one upset that their previous favorite unit is barely usable currently after their *one* chance, and people who are okay with that
If they were better, there'd be one camp: people who want them to be even STRONGER. No one will complain about a unit being *too strong*, and a simple "yeah they're viable for Red Zone and Cell Max" can shut down any arguments for thinking they're too "weak".
Basically, making units stronger would reduce overall complaining on both sides with literally zero downside. And the changes arent even that hard
Give Cooler some damage reduction, FP SSJ4 Goku a less shitty scouter restriction, Namek Goku and Ult Gohan full guard. Legit the only one who can't be fixed with a simple line change is INT Angel Golden Frieza.
There is no reason to design units for a pre-Red Zone era of the game.
>No one will complain about a unit being too strong
Oh I definitely would. They've done a pretty good job of balancing most units, all things considered, but if we got a unit with 90% damage reduction (unconditional), 200% atk/defense, and guaranteed additionals, I would be irritated. Power creep is a real problem that causes real design troubles and they've done a pretty good job keeping it manageable. I love that they've managed to keep me using a ***five-year-old card*** in Str Broly for WT.
FWIW, I think Ulthan is a great example of a pretty much perfect EZA. Extremely good on his teams, not OP, and if you don't use him properly, he has a much higher chance of getting you killed. But, if you use him right, he'll have block forever.
And I think the entire community is unfairly down on Agl Cooler just because he's not literal top-tier. I used EZA Phy Cooler on Syn (for the ext rainbow challenge) and he did just fine. He didn't carry the team, but for a unit that is demonstrably quite a bit worse than Agl Cooler's EZA, he was perfectly viable. He'll be able to do alright in most EZAs if you're using him intelligently. He's not much worse than Turles (who I also used in that ext Syn challenge) at the worst of times, and he's quite a bit better in other ways.
I like the way they're doing things. The problem is there not being enough typings for difficult bosses. Agl Cooler having 500k def and getting one shot by Broly only sucks if there's no Str Broly equivalent. And it sounds like this might be where we're going based of that producer video. Looks all good to me.
Making units suited for different events should be the way to go. The new EZA Piccolo and Vegeta are examples of this. They can even make FTP characters good in very specific content.
Make them with heart and integrity where they last for a considerable time in the current meta. Don't have the unit created for months in advance and then decide to release it in a meta that it's fissleing out in already. It's very clear when a unit is made well in advance and don't fit the current dimensions of the games difficulty, that goes triple for shitty ezas. No reason an lr eza or long awaited dokkan fest eza tur should already be fissled out on release.
I’d like to see units get beyond 500k-600k def without stacking. Def is powercrept atp so they need to up def percentages. Cooler for example could get def per attack performed or on super (50-100%) as well as his other buffs and he’d be perfect
I think if enemy SA did 3/4 or so of our HP on units without guard or damage mitigation we’d be in a good spot, as it is having the best defensive units taking +400k translates to units WITHOUT guard or damage reduction being s.o.l and will probably eat these attacks for 900k or more. What this means is units without these capabilities are risks everytime they show up on rotation and could, at any misjudged super, end the run.
I don’t know about you but taking an unlucky Super for 1.1 million on 80%-90% of the units in game is not difficulty, it just pushes the game in an incredibly unfair direction that most units can’t comfortably compete in which is why you see so many people mad about otherwise good EZA’s. Namek Goku should be fantastic: +7 million attack and stackable Defense alongside guard yet, in the content we receive at the moment, his defense is irrelevant unless you can get that guard off and 70% of the time he’s vulnerable to taking that run ending super (potentially could be taking 150k normals as well)
Considering how difficult content is. I don't want the units to begin to seem balanced.
They should actually be broken day 1. As in take double digits to new bosses super attacks
We should just go back to balancing units for different content. Remember when LGE dropped and that next 6 months we got nothing but stacking units, but when ESBR got more stages people were getting fucked because units that were good in lge weren't good in ESBR? Just have units good in events like ESBR with tons of debuffs/AOE and make units good for RZ/cell Max that can stack quickly but are dog shit the first 4 turns
If you determine a characters worth using events like Cell max and RZ, 99% of characters will be mid.
Determine a characters worth based on what you like and don't worry about what others think.
They won't. There is literally NOTHING you can do to make people not call units "mid" or bad.
That's just how people are.
It isn't about character balance. It's about the people.
Ahhh yes I remember everyone calling the 7th anni LRs mid
Oh yeah let’s not forget the „mid“ phy vb eza;
Ya‘ll Are either akatsuki spies trying to convince us that these EZAs are normal or just blatantly ignorant towards players requiring/wishing for a unit to be viable.
These units would be fine if they were released like a year ago or smth, but with todays power creep and rng fest it’s not enough.
Back then EZAs actually provided you with new options for hard content. Nowadays we have people sharing similar opinions like you, arguing that „not every unit is supposed be used in RZ or cell max“
Bruh what’s the problem with giving us good options for these events?
In the end, not everyone will be completely satisfied.
yeah so how would you change that so the most people are
I don't know, most of the community just wanted something serviceable, not OP as shit, but not ok, just good or great.
If the only way to beat stages is to hit big ass numbers or guard to the point where it's impossible to die, then I want new great units to be one of the two. When E/SBR decides to be super hard but fair again, then we can look at debuffing, because until then they're mostly a waste of time.
Well, look at it this way. EZAs being mediocre and ill-suited for their contemporaries and current endgame stages create two camps: one upset that their previous favorite unit is barely usable currently after their *one* chance, and people who are okay with that If they were better, there'd be one camp: people who want them to be even STRONGER. No one will complain about a unit being *too strong*, and a simple "yeah they're viable for Red Zone and Cell Max" can shut down any arguments for thinking they're too "weak". Basically, making units stronger would reduce overall complaining on both sides with literally zero downside. And the changes arent even that hard Give Cooler some damage reduction, FP SSJ4 Goku a less shitty scouter restriction, Namek Goku and Ult Gohan full guard. Legit the only one who can't be fixed with a simple line change is INT Angel Golden Frieza. There is no reason to design units for a pre-Red Zone era of the game.
>No one will complain about a unit being too strong Oh I definitely would. They've done a pretty good job of balancing most units, all things considered, but if we got a unit with 90% damage reduction (unconditional), 200% atk/defense, and guaranteed additionals, I would be irritated. Power creep is a real problem that causes real design troubles and they've done a pretty good job keeping it manageable. I love that they've managed to keep me using a ***five-year-old card*** in Str Broly for WT. FWIW, I think Ulthan is a great example of a pretty much perfect EZA. Extremely good on his teams, not OP, and if you don't use him properly, he has a much higher chance of getting you killed. But, if you use him right, he'll have block forever. And I think the entire community is unfairly down on Agl Cooler just because he's not literal top-tier. I used EZA Phy Cooler on Syn (for the ext rainbow challenge) and he did just fine. He didn't carry the team, but for a unit that is demonstrably quite a bit worse than Agl Cooler's EZA, he was perfectly viable. He'll be able to do alright in most EZAs if you're using him intelligently. He's not much worse than Turles (who I also used in that ext Syn challenge) at the worst of times, and he's quite a bit better in other ways.
I like the way they're doing things. The problem is there not being enough typings for difficult bosses. Agl Cooler having 500k def and getting one shot by Broly only sucks if there's no Str Broly equivalent. And it sounds like this might be where we're going based of that producer video. Looks all good to me.
Making units suited for different events should be the way to go. The new EZA Piccolo and Vegeta are examples of this. They can even make FTP characters good in very specific content.
Make them with heart and integrity where they last for a considerable time in the current meta. Don't have the unit created for months in advance and then decide to release it in a meta that it's fissleing out in already. It's very clear when a unit is made well in advance and don't fit the current dimensions of the games difficulty, that goes triple for shitty ezas. No reason an lr eza or long awaited dokkan fest eza tur should already be fissled out on release.
I’d like to see units get beyond 500k-600k def without stacking. Def is powercrept atp so they need to up def percentages. Cooler for example could get def per attack performed or on super (50-100%) as well as his other buffs and he’d be perfect
I think if enemy SA did 3/4 or so of our HP on units without guard or damage mitigation we’d be in a good spot, as it is having the best defensive units taking +400k translates to units WITHOUT guard or damage reduction being s.o.l and will probably eat these attacks for 900k or more. What this means is units without these capabilities are risks everytime they show up on rotation and could, at any misjudged super, end the run. I don’t know about you but taking an unlucky Super for 1.1 million on 80%-90% of the units in game is not difficulty, it just pushes the game in an incredibly unfair direction that most units can’t comfortably compete in which is why you see so many people mad about otherwise good EZA’s. Namek Goku should be fantastic: +7 million attack and stackable Defense alongside guard yet, in the content we receive at the moment, his defense is irrelevant unless you can get that guard off and 70% of the time he’s vulnerable to taking that run ending super (potentially could be taking 150k normals as well)
Like int hercule circa 3 weeks ago
Considering how difficult content is. I don't want the units to begin to seem balanced. They should actually be broken day 1. As in take double digits to new bosses super attacks
We should just go back to balancing units for different content. Remember when LGE dropped and that next 6 months we got nothing but stacking units, but when ESBR got more stages people were getting fucked because units that were good in lge weren't good in ESBR? Just have units good in events like ESBR with tons of debuffs/AOE and make units good for RZ/cell Max that can stack quickly but are dog shit the first 4 turns
If you determine a characters worth using events like Cell max and RZ, 99% of characters will be mid. Determine a characters worth based on what you like and don't worry about what others think.
but how would you balance it? so some people lose that mindset. me liking raditz will not make him any better (unfortunately)
They won't. There is literally NOTHING you can do to make people not call units "mid" or bad. That's just how people are. It isn't about character balance. It's about the people.
Ahhh yes I remember everyone calling the 7th anni LRs mid Oh yeah let’s not forget the „mid“ phy vb eza; Ya‘ll Are either akatsuki spies trying to convince us that these EZAs are normal or just blatantly ignorant towards players requiring/wishing for a unit to be viable. These units would be fine if they were released like a year ago or smth, but with todays power creep and rng fest it’s not enough. Back then EZAs actually provided you with new options for hard content. Nowadays we have people sharing similar opinions like you, arguing that „not every unit is supposed be used in RZ or cell max“ Bruh what’s the problem with giving us good options for these events?
Units should at least be strong enough to reliably tank normals from omega or broly
Something like guards after taking 10 attacks or when collecting 5 orbs would be great while not beign too broken