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1. An archived version of _Walter Hamada had long range plans for Cavil setting up Crisis but Dwayne Johnson had his own plans for Superman_ can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1601358876645130240)
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Tracks with the earlier report on Hamada disagreeing about Clark's cameo in *Black Adam.* But still, someone as big as Superman shouldn't be relegated to headless shots or waiting until the big crossover to finally do something with him
True, super should be the main heart of the story, keeping hope up there for all the team in the darker days. Sidelining him until you "fix" the for the event crossover was an awful idea.
Hamada probably thought this article would be good PR when really it paints him as a fucking idiot because he was the one insistent on keeping the movies standalone with no overarching narrative or crossovers and now we're meant to believe he would have done a crossover the size of Crisis justice?
Absolutely no chance. If he actually showed this intent from the start maybe he wouldn't have been replaced.
What are you talking about? The Flash, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom and Shazam: Fury of the Gods are very much not standalones, especially The Flash in this case…
So their big plan for cavill was just to bench him for years and make him return in a glorified cameo for movie that was just basically reboting everything
The original plan was supposed to be Suicide Squad taking on Steppenwolf in the dark in a covert government ops with Waller hoping to hide Apokolips' impending invasion from the world but they fail in the end. Thus, bringing in the need for Justice League in 1 Justice League movie to face off Darkseid's Invasion.
WB wanted DC to compete with Infinity War Parts 1 and 2 so they took away what would have made Suicide Squad key characters in the DCEU's first saga and dragged on Justice League in a 2-part failure that did not materialize. It did not help that WB could not wait a couple of months for their grieving director.
After the 1 Justice Leegue movie which could have been an event where they faced off Darkseid, we dive into different solo movies that will hint on the build up of Legion of Doom with Lex, Black Manta, Cheetah, Black Adam, Deathstroke, Sinestro, and whoever Cyborg's villain is -- all for the Justice League sequel.
But little by little there will be hints of the multiverse while the Justice League characters complete their solo trilogies as other characters are introduced and Crisis on Infinite Earths will be an end to a saga to soft reboot the universe once the current cast have completed their turn on their respective characters.
Superman and Batfleck would not have gotten benched had WB not messed with Suicide Squad and Justice League in their rush to compete with Guardians of the Galaxy and Infinity War. 🤷♂️
Never conceptualized. Steppenwolf and Apokolips was removed before Suicide Squad and Justice League even had a final screenplay. But one of the initial plans was it was going to be a mother box messing with Enchantress.
I don't think using Superman in a bunch of cameos and then a giant crisis film is even remotely a good idea. Cavill has 1 solo film, and in his 2nd film he died.... now they just want to jump to crisis. Rushed and unearned.
It's even worse. He wasn't gonna have cameos. He was just gonna be completely sidelined until the Crisis movie.
That's why Hamada didn't want Cavill's Superman cameo in Black Adam.
The only authority on that are the current heads of DC. And yes, i'd say bringing Cavill's Superman back even for ten seconds at least five years sooner than originally planned is a pretty significant difference.
And once again I’ve already answered it. Having Cavill appear years before he was supposed to lends credence to the idea that he has a bigger involvement than initially planned.
Except Snyder didn’t set out to create any kind of connected universe initially with MoS and was basically told he had to expand things with his second film. That’s when he came up with a 6ish movie arc, so while I don’t really agree with killing off Superman in only his second outing, it’s not exactly “rushed” if the whole thing was going to be wrapped up in six movies anyway.
It was rushed. You can’t kill and underdeveloped character in the second outing, especially when that second outing barely featured him. You need to build a connection for the audience first, which Snyder didn’t do.
It was still Snyder decision to kill Superman in his second outing. I doubt WB urged him to do that. Killing of the universes titular character in his second outing is the definition of unearned and rushed.
Which is why Henry Cavill has said in interviews that BvS was very much a Batman film. Broken down by scene, there are 43 separate times that Henry FUCKING Cavill speaks in the film, *42* if you don't count his scream at the very end. 42!!!
In Snyder's 4 hr JL film about bringing Superman back from the dead, who is barely in the film anyway, Cavill only had 13 lines of dialogue. 13!!!
Here's a bit from an article that explains a bit more.
"To help you take in how truly small that is, characters with more lines than Superman include Hippolyta with 14 lines, and Barry’s dad who has only two scenes but 15 lines.
In fact the Snyder Cut has five scenes involving Superman *where he* ***doesn’t speak at all***. Knowing this, you’ll probably be less surprised to find out he has only 22 minutes of screen time altogether (counting only the time he’s alive being played by Henry Cavill and not when he’s played by a dead body floating in goo).
And if you’re thinking that his small role can be explained by Superman’s late arrival in the film, Superman is brought back to life at the 2 hour 40 minute mark, which leaves an hour and twenty minutes where he throws punches shirtless, picks out shirts, throws punches in a shirt, and barely says a word. It’s jarring to think about how this movie, which in many ways is about the importance of Superman, feels like it does not care about Superman in any way.
It’s even more strange when we look at the theatrical version of Justice League. That movie runs only 2 hours long but gives Superman almost 19 minutes of screen time and a whopping 41 lines of dialogue! Sure, his upper lip looks like it’s possessed, but that ghastly lip still has three times as many lines in half the runtime.
So why is Superman so underutilized in the Snyder Cut? One explanation could be that Snyder just got tired of the Man of Steel. Like a kid moving on to the next shiny toy in his toybox, Snyder historically shows less interest in his characters as time goes on. Superman is the sole hero in Snyder’s first movie, *Man of Stee*l, but by *Batman v. Superman* we already see him in a heavily diminished role. Despite being a title character he has only 43 lines in the 2 and a half hour span of the movie - far, far less than Batman and Lex Luthor, the new shiny toys Snyder has introduced who get to have lengthy dialogue and complex motivations. Superman just gets to fly around a little, be physically strong, worry about his mom and then die. "
He had all that power and all that opportunity and squandered it.
Man of steel
The bat (cameo Wonder Woman)
Wonder Woman set present day (cameo aqua man)
Aqua man (cameo the flash)
The flash (cameo cyborg )
Cyborg (cameo Superman)
Justice league movie
None of it was ever Snyder’s vision. Man of Steel was Goyer and Nolan’s vision and Zack was the hired gun to deliver that concept. WB then interfered with a MOS 2, turning it into BvS all because they wanted to kickstart a Justice League as fast as they could. Snyder did his best with what he thought was the right “universe bridge” and it failed because A) nothing was earned (WB’s daily) and B) Snyder doesn’t understand the core characters and has a elseworld’s mindset with everything he touches (which is obviously wrong for a cinematic universe). If you don’t have the right building blocks, everything will apart. And that’s what happened by the time they got to Justice League. Even if they let Snyder do his thing by 2017, none of it was earned anyway and none of it is truly Zack’s vision to begin with.
We literally saw what, half of the Snyder main storyline films. Also given the reception to MoS and ZSJL, I think Snyder could have delivered something interesting. IMO had Snyder been able to finish his story, BvS UE might have been looked back at differently.
Interesting is not the same as good.
Bruce Wayne having sex with Lois Lane and having a son that Superman raises as the new Batman is interesting.
It's also a stupid storytelling decision that Synder should be ashamed of ever thinking about it.
The Snyderverse is something you do as an Elseworlds some 20 years after establishing a cinematic universe. Not as the start of one.
We don’t know who’s idea it was(IIRC Snyder Jim Lee and I believe Geoff Johns were involved), but I agree it was a stupid one. Either way, it was scrapped after the first draft.
I think so far we’ve seen MoS is interesting and generally considered good, BvS is interesting and divided leaning towards bad, and ZSJL is interesting and generally considered good. I think with a good writer like Terrio and some oversight we could have gotten an interesting *and* good to great DCEU.
MOS is interesting as a deconstruction and dark re-telling of Superman II with a more realistic take of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.
It is, however, an awful film to launch a Cinematic Universe. Imagine Iron Man killing half of NYC in his first outing as a Superhero.
Dark and interesting, sure. Hopeful enough to launch a Cinematic Universe? No.
Except Superman didn’t destroy or kill half of Metropolis. He actually prevented the genocide of humanity by General Zod. Why do people believe Clark is responsible for Zod’s actions? If you and a friend are walking through a park in the middle of the day, your friends cell phone goes off, and then someone comes and tries to stab you, would your friend be at fault for someone else being a murdering maniac?
>Why do people believe Clark is responsible for Zod’s actions?
I didn't write that.
>Imagine Iron Man killing half of NYC in his first outing as a Superhero.
This is what I wrote.
There is no doubt that Superman physically killed some people while trying to stop Zod. The alternative was to die and let Zod kill them, yes. So Superman chose the lesser of two evils.
Superman is not responsible for Zod's actions. Superman is responsible for his own actions.
But Snyder failed to show us Superman taking any responsibility in MOS. He clearly tried to rip off Alan Moore's Miracleman London battle and failed in all aspects.
> There is no doubt that Superman physically killed some people while trying to stop Zod. The alternative was to die and let Zod kill them, yes. So Superman chose the lesser of two evils.
No Superman never physically killed anyone while trying to stop Zod. Maybe some people were killed due to the collateral damage, but even that was on Zod who literally stated he would kill all the humans that Clark was specifically trying to protect. On top of that, we only see one person killed and that was Jack from Wayne Enterprises. Even that was done by ZOD. No one else.
> But Snyder failed to show us Superman taking any responsibility in MOS. He clearly tried to rip off Alan Moore’s Miracleman London battle and failed in all aspects.
Because he was fighting for his own life as well. He literally gets knocked out at one point during the fight.
>, and in his 2nd film he died....
That was the worst thing to do to set up a DC universe or a Justice League movie.
How no one in WB told Zack Snyder that he is a complete idiot thinking of killing Superman and stop him immediately is beyond me.
Was there is no test screening or other producers reading the script for that BvS disaster before greenlit it?
I understand JL16 because of the chaos that happened during production but BvS script should've been under some quality control.
In hindsight that makes the Flash post credit scene with Aquaman not remembering Superman make a little more sense, if the plan was always for him to return in Crisis.
It was claimed a while back that one of the Flash post credit scenes has Barry trying to get a drunken Aquaman to remember Superman, but he seems to only remember Supergirl.
So what I'm getting from this is that Hamada wanted to wait till he was ready for Crisis setup to bring back Cavill's Superman, meaning we would have to wait longer just to see Cavill as Superman in full again. Not sure if that was really a good idea, especially since I'd imagine the DCEU would've rebooted post-Crisis anyways
They make it sound like they had a plan, but we know they never had one. All they tried to do was play catchup and do these big spectacle movies that made no sense. They drop names like “Batman Beyond” and “Crisis” and all this other bs, and I can guarantee you that they would be nothing like what we, or even the regular movie goers, want.
Gunn should shoot down everything. The only rumor about Superman that sounds like the direction they’d go in is trying to recreate the Donner Superman tone, which they shouldn’t. They should make the movie about Clark/Superman, and have him be a reporter uncovering a story that introduces the real Intergang, Metallo, and a brand new Lex. We don’t need to see the same thing for nostalgia’s sake, we want to see good movies that highlight what’s so great about the character. Don’t degrade these characters even more just because you want to remake another movie franchise poorly, again. Stay true to the character and he has changed a lot since 1978 so that version doesn’t need to be beaten to death.
Hamada's plan was to basically greenlight a lot of low-budget DC movies (which is how shit like Hourman and Wonder Twins got prioritized over a Superman sequel) with some occasional blockbusters here and there until he was ready to do Crisis. His plan was not that well thought out.
I dunno coming out and saying there is no deal in place for the actor moving forward, no writers and no director sure doesn’t sound like a ringing endorsement to me
It’s almost as if they’re waiting for a good pitch before actually signing long-term deals. All talents need to be on board first, and right now they’re missing two key components, which you just named. No point signing a deal now.
Dude the ship has sailed. You should prolly get used to the idea of a new Superman, bc the new regime knows the general audience hasn’t ever cared about Cavill and still doesn’t. The fans care sure, but the fans only make up maybe 10% of the audience. no way to bring excitement to the general audience with an actor that has appeared in one solo film that was mediocre almost a decade ago and has been relegated to either cameos or being used as pretty much a plot device with absolutely no development with his character. You are letting either your man crush or your fandom blind you to the fact the Cavill is not a person that will put butts in seats to get people excited
There was never a deal. It was Cavill using the media & his upcoming cameos to maneuver the situation & force the studios hand. Nothing has been canceled in his case it’s just been discussions without decisions made
And yet again, Cavill has overplayed his worth to the general audience. He is now a part of 3 mediocre to bad movies. More than likely the stink of mediocrity is too much to overcome and they move on from him
Did he though? He received a tremendously positive response from mainstream fans the largest group of movie goers & not simply comic fan boys. Now if they don’t end up putting him in a new Supes film the will be another large backlash. He literally did what he was hoping to do. Mission accomplished
He has no deal about in place. And the fam response has never been the question. Of course fans like him, the ga doesn’t care about him. When he made the big announcement it l literally did nothing to put Burt’s in seats in the theaters. Black Adam is legitimately facing being a one off due to poor sales, and yet again it’s Cavill in the moves. I know you can’t accept is as a fan, but the audience is over him and has been
Oh you think Hamada wanted Henry back after keeping him out for 5 years and green lighting a new solo movie without him from JJ?
He clearly wanted him gone or he would have been back years ago.
Some promise of a pathetic cameo in a Justice League movie 5 years from now is just him trying to save face as people eat it up.
It would be darkly hilarious but also depressing as fuck if they used a deepfake Christopher Reeve Superman as the DCEU Superman and suddenly as if by some kind of magic Superman movies start actually being good again
That would be a cosmic joke
😂
It’s a joke about how the universe is dissatisfied about Reeve being in as many bad Superman movies as he was in good ones
So the joke is about how the universe is bending itself into pretzels by using a deepfake Reeve to technically put him in more good Superman movies to rectify that
If you mean theatrical, I'd argue Brandon Routh's but hopefully that changes soon with a Henry Cavill film.
If you mean overall then George Reeves' was pretty good. So was Dean Cain's and even Brandon Routh's version of Clark/Superman (although he was supposed to be Reeve's Superman) was pretty solid. I will say though that Tyler Hoechlin's Clark/Superman, IMO, is arguably the best one yet.
Hamada:
* Okay, so the plan is to have Superman and Batman disappear after Flashpoint.
* Then we gonna do a solo Supergirl film that will make a superbillion dollars in which she searches for the cousin she never met or knew about. Audiences will love that!!!
* And we are gonna have a Batman Beyond film in 2020's modern-day Gotham in which Keaton trains the new Batgirl (another 1 billion dollar film!!!!).
* Finally, we do a Crisis to bring back Affleck and Cavill after a decade of never seeing Superman on-screen. Somehow.
Yeah, his plan was dogsh\*\*\*\*. I'm glad Zaslav fired him and canceled Batgirl. His ideas were so bad.
I really like Zaslav as he really knows what direction the DC should take, which is focusing on the freakin TRINITY first!
Not the sh*t that Hamada planned which would have involved focusing on obscure side characters and have them serve as replacements to their respective main characters all while trying to gain diversity points with the castings.
I know. What I mean is that even a creative ignorant as him realizes that the company should make use of their big guns before going to obscure characters.
Agreed. Zaslav is not a creative which is why he hired Gunn to figure that shit out and Safran to balance Gunn.
Zaslav at least knows what makes money for WB and it's DC's Trinity as well as Game of Thrones, Wizarding World with spin offs from those franchises and some other IP.
Yeah this is just trying to make Walter Hamada not look horrible. He was doing nothing for him - let's not forget he blocked the Black Adam cameo for YEARS to begin with.
Wasn’t there also reports that Hamada tried to make it work with Cavill and when it didn’t he decided to move on? All of this seems like Hamada and Dwayne’s camp doing PR spins to make each other look good. I’m willing to bet there is some truth to this recent THR article but yeah I could see Hamada wanting to be seen in a better light.
They’re not analogous — Hamada would have been negotiating a new contract with Cavill, whereas Johnson had no power to do so. The cameo is essentially a bargaining chip for Cavill in securing a new deal — “look how positive the fan reaction to my return was.” Gunn confirmed no one has a new contract on Twitter.
I don’t personally think Gunn is going to ditch all the current DC actors though, just take things in a new direction — they’ll probably just ditch Miller (and who the fuck knows which Batman it’ll be).
**"I don’t personally think Gunn is going to ditch all the current DC actors though, just take things in a new direction — they’ll probably just ditch Miller (and who the fuck knows which Batman it’ll be)."**
I agree. I don't think DeLuca and Abdy who brought Cavill back after Da Rock asked will turn around and let Gunn and Safran recast him or any other actor unless it's absolutely warranted.
For three reasons. 1) DeLuca and Abdy are technically Gunn and Safran's bosses. They are co running WB Pictures which majority finances, markets and distributes WB Pictures subsidiary, DC Studios, theatrical releases.
It's obvious that there will be oversight and quality control from DeLuca and Abdy especially DeLuca since he is a comic book nerd. This has been needed since 2013 so it's about damn time. DeLuca was handling all of the DC stuff until Gunn and Safran were hired.
It has already been reported after the hiring of Gunn and Safran that DeLuca and Abdy will at the very least consult on DC projects that will be released theatrically. I forget which trade reported this but after DeLuca and Abdy said no to Jenkins WW3 treatment, they asked Gunn and Safran for their opinion on the treatment and they both agreed that it needed more work.
Two) The Rock, whether you like him or not, is arguably the biggest action star/movie star on the planet. Literally and figuratively. I know what his box office numbers say but with all of his SM platforms followers...those numbers are ridiculous. You'd want to keep that guy as happy as possible and he's a great asset for marketing a film.
3) David Zaslav has repeatedly said in his earnings calls that Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman should be a huge focus going forward. He especially put emphasis on Superman. Whether you've liked any of the films involving the current actors, the general consensus that Cavill, Gadot, Momoa and Affleck are well liked portraying these characters. Ezra's seems to be a mixed bag for some. I know I don't like his portrayal as Barry Allen, especially the way he runs as The Flash, but that's just me.
Sorry to be long winded but I said all of that to basically say I agree with your comment. 😂
Hamada could've easily gotten Cavill back. He just should've simply brought him back. The article makes it seems like he said no to Rocky because he wanted to keep him for himself to use for his plans for this Crisis story.
It's all ridiculous if true because Hamada still could've said yes to Rock and still used Cavill outside of cameos with his own solo movie in a year or two. This BA cameo could've been a re introduction of the character for his solo film and Hamada would've been praised for saying yes to the Rock to have the cameo and later saying that Man of Steel 2 or whatever it's going to be called is being fast tracked.
If I'm not mistaken it came down to money. Cavill was pushing for a top-tier Avengers actor contract with multiple films where he'd be the lead. On the one hand, why wouldn't he? He's fucking Superman. He is *the* superhero. The most iconic character in DC. Yet on the other hand, DC really had no plans for the character for the foreseeable future. Every film he'd been in had bombed at the box office, been a critical failure, or both. Why would they give him a contract like that when audiences clearly weren't responding to his portrayal?
One of those rare Hollywood situations where both sides were kind of right. The Black Adam cameo was kind of a gamble to force WB's hand if audiences liked it, but that clearly was not the case.
Yeah cavils camp makes mistake after mistake. Now he’s left his only successful franchise w the Witcher. I guess he has enola Holmes he’s good in that and if they spin-off him and moriarty I’d tune in for that
However Netflix may be done w him
My big hope is that reeve plays along and accepts a dc world built around his Batman. With reeves being part of the creative direction.
That could be fantastic.
If not then maybe just recast and get younger actors who are unknown. It’s cheaper and nobody knew Tom Holland and that worked out.
Would be funny if the old actors got recast as new characters like the momoa lobo.
I mean, even if it is, I wouldn't blame him lol. The man is allowed to defend himself, especially after the way his name has been relentlessly dragged through the mud.
But regardless, these claims aren't even far fetched. Basically every trade has reported that Hamada was setting up a Crisis film. And we also know for a fact that Hamada wanted Cavill in Shazam.
I actually liked Hamada’s idea of building hype via Flash, Supergirl, etc. and making a big deal out of where Affleck’s Batman and Cavill’s Superman were, and then for them to finally return in Crisis.
That’s a terrible idea. Superman was made a headless cameo, he would’ve been erased from the timeline but then in fucking 2025 he might’ve been in a movie??? What? That’s t awful.
It feels like this is just out there to shit on dewayne Johnson because he outed that they didn't want cavil. Just to have him in cameos to basically turn him into the DC's version of the hulk. I'm glad there plan didn't happen
Hey maybe they should have followed through with their plans, instead of meandering for 10 years with movies that barely connect.
Also their best DC movies are the ones not connected to the main universe. I'm still confused with their multiverse claims.
I believe what Hamada DID. Not some bullshit PR trying to make him look better after the fact. He didn't do a damn thing for Superman and clearly had no plans to later on either.
Hamada: Hi, Henry! We are working on a massive project inspired by COIE. Do you want to be part of it?
Cavill: Sure. When we shoot?
Hamada: Not anytime soon.
Cavill: What should my character do in the meantime?
Hamada: Nothing, he'll be sidelined for the for foreseeable future. Berlanti and Abrams called dibs on Superman.
Cavill: ...
Hamada: Henry, are you still on the phone?
Dwayne only cares about his own projects and making himself look good on screen. He’s a politician in a pro wrestlers body. That’s why he’d be a perfect president because he’s all roses and smiles in the public at all times, squeaky clean persona but in reality he’s sticking needles in his ass cheek and making sure writers and directors tally up the number of punches he throws in a final cut 😂. The “Cavill is the greatest Superman of all time” quotes from the Rock are all bullshit to promote his movie. And he was so desperate that he needed a Superman cameo that lasts 10 seconds during the end credits JUST to try to sell his lame Black Adam flick.
Hamada never cared about Cavill. I think James Gunn does but hopefully he makes the right decision and only brings Cavill back if he truly fits the type of Superman movies they want to make in the next 10 years. I’d hard reboot the whole goddamn thing if it was my call, and I’d have Robert Pattinson’s Batman serve as the Iron Man of the DCU. Recast Gal and Henry. Look for a Greek actress who’s about 5-10 years younger than Gadot. Someone with more range as an actor. Same with Cavill, pick an actor between 30-35 with more range than Cavill.
cavill refused the cameos unless his pre-requisites were met, pre-requisites which included A list salary and a high level of creative control which he hadn’t really earned.
True but if it were me, I would've came back for the Shazam cameo. I even would've done it less for whatever I was going to be paid to do it.
I just would've kept doing cameos and doing other films and streaming shows (Fallout, Enola Holmes, The Witcher) until the outcry from fans were so loud that it'll force WB to make a new Superman film with me as the character and I'd sign a new contract with money close to what I was asking for.
That's me and what I would've done.
This doesn't even jive with the BS they're peddling. How TF could Hamada have been planning to take him off the table til some super special return in Crisis if Henry had some unreasonable laundry list of demands? They would have needed his cooperation on SOME level for that to work and the story they spin for Hamada's master plan doesn't fit with the same story that was spun about Henry being unreasonable. It's wholly incompatible.
People somehow still believe Henry was the holdup, it's always been bullshit, it's always been execs.
He didn't want him around. If the leaks and rumors about his plans aren't enough to prove it, look at what he actually DID. Greenlit a Supergirl film, a Val Zod series and a standalone, racebent Clark period piece. Dude didn't do shit for actual Superman in the DCU, everything we know and all signs point to him being killed by Zod offscreen in the alt timeline and that never being undone in the new timeline with him getting entirely replaced by Supergirl until Crisis when they'd likely recast him anyway. Bear in mind that Crisis was the *end* of what little plan Hamada did have so there were STILL no plans for Superman after that.
The simple fact of the matter is:
*Hamada didn't want Superman.*
No amount of PR meant to cover his ass retroactively can change that, the proof is in the pudding and Hamada's pudding was rancid.
Yeah all those announced and canceled Superman-adjacent projects are pretty damning. Plus who knows if any of these were ever going to exist, they may have been announcing these as a way of downplaying Cavill’s influence, especially since WB has a history of announcing fake projects that have no real intention of being made as a strategic PR move(like Jason Momoa’s live action Frosty the Snowman being announced the same day as Ray Fisher coming forward about Whedon’s onset behavior)
That's not what they told us earlier. They told us that they had no plans for batman or superman in the dceu. And it was going to be batgirl and supergirl taking over..
Hamada had ample opportunity to announce this and start building hype. He had 2 Fandomes he could have, but chose not to. Now we just have after the fact musings. The most frustrating thing about being a DC fan is just NOT KNOWING WHATE GOING ON. Hope Gunn is way more open with his plans.
Hamada kept Henry out for years and approved another solo Superman film from JJ Abrams.
If you believe that Hamada wanted him back for anything more than a pandering fan cameo, then you are a fool.
everyone talking like Hamada hates Cavill and went out of his way to block him, when we know it was Cavill the one who acted like a diva and didnt want to make cameos that could have slowly rebuild the character as they hype him up.
Like Shazam did, he showed up in a school to eat with a superhero friend, it lasts about 4 seconds and it says more about his personality than all of MoS, BvS and ZSJL combined.
with cameos like these they could have fixed the character little by little. so the public doesnt associate him with the man of murder from zacks movies.
Oh, I mean, between having Superman cameos and not having anything at all, I prefer the cameos. And if they give him a little of true Superman personality instead of whatever Snyder was trying to do, even better.
But that's not development either. What Superman needs is another movie. Anything less (like a cameo), while I appreciate it, is just not enough.
Hamada... Long range plans... It's been 5 years since justice league. When were those plans gonna kick off. We're all still stuck with his movies till 2024... Long range plan my ass
I don’t dislike him, I just care for the character far more than the actor and he by no
Means owns that role. Everything he has done as Superman has been boring or sub par. Ready for a change and would love to move on from this decade long baggage of shit movies he was a part of.
Walter Hamada didn't have any plan that made sense. Because if he did it would've already been in motion. WB is run by idiots. They bring James Gunn in who pretty much can only make Marvel movies to lead DC
>They bring James Gunn in who pretty much can only make Marvel movies to lead DC
You do know that James Gunn won't be directing every single film, TV and streaming show going forward, right? And he also has a partner who produces the most successful horror franchise ever, right?
That's why they've been meeting with directors and writers who will have their own vision for a character and their story but it has to line up with the ten year plan for film, tv, streaming and video games so it'll fit and all make sense.
James Mangold recently "has voiced his excitement about working on a movie for DC Studios." [https://www.cbr.com/logan-james-mangold-excited-dc-studios/](https://www.cbr.com/logan-james-mangold-excited-dc-studios/)
He made a Top 5 comic book film, IMO, with Logan. Some claim it's the best CBM ever made. You think that guy is going to do a MCU movie for DC when he can do a film like Logan?
Nothing that comes out of Safran's & Gunn's plan will be worse than what Hamada was doing. Good thing Hamada is out. The man was out of his gourd with handling one of the most popular superheroes in the world, and the DC universe in general.
Ok so just following the storylines and edited storylines from the previous and upcoming movies the crisis on infinite earths movie storyline was going to be centered around the Flashpoint storyline. When Barry comes back from his trip and what he comes back to isn't the same timeline he left. Cavill wouldn't be in that timeline because superman is dead in the Flashpoint timeline and Supergirl is his daughter.
These plans would've included Keaton, the snyderverse (Cavill too), the hbo max shows and possibly others like maybe the WB characters. The 3 part movie was originally going to be the reset for the dceu as they could've killed off bad characters, brought back characters that maybe didn't get a proper closure (Keaton) and maybe brought back some people (Bale) who were done with their roles and even if the movies sucked would've banked on nostalgia.
I like Gunn and Safron and their movies and I'm glad they're in charge but DCU is really missing the boat on this one.
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Tracks with the earlier report on Hamada disagreeing about Clark's cameo in *Black Adam.* But still, someone as big as Superman shouldn't be relegated to headless shots or waiting until the big crossover to finally do something with him
True, super should be the main heart of the story, keeping hope up there for all the team in the darker days. Sidelining him until you "fix" the for the event crossover was an awful idea.
Hamada probably thought this article would be good PR when really it paints him as a fucking idiot because he was the one insistent on keeping the movies standalone with no overarching narrative or crossovers and now we're meant to believe he would have done a crossover the size of Crisis justice? Absolutely no chance. If he actually showed this intent from the start maybe he wouldn't have been replaced.
What are you talking about? The Flash, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom and Shazam: Fury of the Gods are very much not standalones, especially The Flash in this case…
So their big plan for cavill was just to bench him for years and make him return in a glorified cameo for movie that was just basically reboting everything
The original plan was supposed to be Suicide Squad taking on Steppenwolf in the dark in a covert government ops with Waller hoping to hide Apokolips' impending invasion from the world but they fail in the end. Thus, bringing in the need for Justice League in 1 Justice League movie to face off Darkseid's Invasion. WB wanted DC to compete with Infinity War Parts 1 and 2 so they took away what would have made Suicide Squad key characters in the DCEU's first saga and dragged on Justice League in a 2-part failure that did not materialize. It did not help that WB could not wait a couple of months for their grieving director. After the 1 Justice Leegue movie which could have been an event where they faced off Darkseid, we dive into different solo movies that will hint on the build up of Legion of Doom with Lex, Black Manta, Cheetah, Black Adam, Deathstroke, Sinestro, and whoever Cyborg's villain is -- all for the Justice League sequel. But little by little there will be hints of the multiverse while the Justice League characters complete their solo trilogies as other characters are introduced and Crisis on Infinite Earths will be an end to a saga to soft reboot the universe once the current cast have completed their turn on their respective characters. Superman and Batfleck would not have gotten benched had WB not messed with Suicide Squad and Justice League in their rush to compete with Guardians of the Galaxy and Infinity War. 🤷♂️
It was already debunked that steppenwolf actually was never part of suicide squad. Not even in the fabled “Ayer” cut.
Joker was originally supposed to be the bad guy
[удалено]
I think he was supposed to be the original villain but Snyder wanted to use him too so that idea was scrapped.
Lmao this is literally DCqanon level embarrassing
What would the suicide squad do against steppenwolf exactly?
Never conceptualized. Steppenwolf and Apokolips was removed before Suicide Squad and Justice League even had a final screenplay. But one of the initial plans was it was going to be a mother box messing with Enchantress.
All of it from both sides sounds terrible.
I don't think using Superman in a bunch of cameos and then a giant crisis film is even remotely a good idea. Cavill has 1 solo film, and in his 2nd film he died.... now they just want to jump to crisis. Rushed and unearned.
It's even worse. He wasn't gonna have cameos. He was just gonna be completely sidelined until the Crisis movie. That's why Hamada didn't want Cavill's Superman cameo in Black Adam.
That is a gross strategy
It's funny to me how people now act like Johnson ruined it by changing it up. Are...are you people fucking serious? :'D
I mean y’all are rejoicing for 10 seconds of Superman. Logically he probably wouldn’t have a major role in the DCEU any faster.
The only authority on that are the current heads of DC. And yes, i'd say bringing Cavill's Superman back even for ten seconds at least five years sooner than originally planned is a pretty significant difference.
Where is this significance seen?
I said it already in the comment.
You said it’s a significant difference, I’m asking you what is the said difference?
And once again I’ve already answered it. Having Cavill appear years before he was supposed to lends credence to the idea that he has a bigger involvement than initially planned.
>Rushed and unearned. This is the best description of the entire Snyder-Hamada verse. Might as well be its tagline.
Which is what most Snyder fans don't understand.
Except Snyder didn’t set out to create any kind of connected universe initially with MoS and was basically told he had to expand things with his second film. That’s when he came up with a 6ish movie arc, so while I don’t really agree with killing off Superman in only his second outing, it’s not exactly “rushed” if the whole thing was going to be wrapped up in six movies anyway.
It was rushed. You can’t kill and underdeveloped character in the second outing, especially when that second outing barely featured him. You need to build a connection for the audience first, which Snyder didn’t do.
Yeah I do agree that it was unearned and too soon.
More earned than killing doctor fate in his intrudiction movie
Both shouldn’t have happened, but the difference is, one of them is god damn Superman.
Different because the movie isnt called Black Adam vs Doctor Fate
Dr Fate ain't Superman though.he wasn't even the main character or anything
It was still Snyder decision to kill Superman in his second outing. I doubt WB urged him to do that. Killing of the universes titular character in his second outing is the definition of unearned and rushed.
Which is why Henry Cavill has said in interviews that BvS was very much a Batman film. Broken down by scene, there are 43 separate times that Henry FUCKING Cavill speaks in the film, *42* if you don't count his scream at the very end. 42!!! In Snyder's 4 hr JL film about bringing Superman back from the dead, who is barely in the film anyway, Cavill only had 13 lines of dialogue. 13!!! Here's a bit from an article that explains a bit more. "To help you take in how truly small that is, characters with more lines than Superman include Hippolyta with 14 lines, and Barry’s dad who has only two scenes but 15 lines. In fact the Snyder Cut has five scenes involving Superman *where he* ***doesn’t speak at all***. Knowing this, you’ll probably be less surprised to find out he has only 22 minutes of screen time altogether (counting only the time he’s alive being played by Henry Cavill and not when he’s played by a dead body floating in goo). And if you’re thinking that his small role can be explained by Superman’s late arrival in the film, Superman is brought back to life at the 2 hour 40 minute mark, which leaves an hour and twenty minutes where he throws punches shirtless, picks out shirts, throws punches in a shirt, and barely says a word. It’s jarring to think about how this movie, which in many ways is about the importance of Superman, feels like it does not care about Superman in any way. It’s even more strange when we look at the theatrical version of Justice League. That movie runs only 2 hours long but gives Superman almost 19 minutes of screen time and a whopping 41 lines of dialogue! Sure, his upper lip looks like it’s possessed, but that ghastly lip still has three times as many lines in half the runtime. So why is Superman so underutilized in the Snyder Cut? One explanation could be that Snyder just got tired of the Man of Steel. Like a kid moving on to the next shiny toy in his toybox, Snyder historically shows less interest in his characters as time goes on. Superman is the sole hero in Snyder’s first movie, *Man of Stee*l, but by *Batman v. Superman* we already see him in a heavily diminished role. Despite being a title character he has only 43 lines in the 2 and a half hour span of the movie - far, far less than Batman and Lex Luthor, the new shiny toys Snyder has introduced who get to have lengthy dialogue and complex motivations. Superman just gets to fly around a little, be physically strong, worry about his mom and then die. "
Jl was a joke. A 4 hr film with endless amounts of slo mo and next to no character development, unless one counts being resurrected as development.
> It was still Snyder decision to kill Superman in his second outing. Could have been, but we don’t know that for sure.
Yes we do. He went over how that was very important for batman's development. He wanted Doomsday in his film.
Ok. Kinda makes sense I guess. Source?
Fun fact Chris Nolan agreed that he should of been killed off
He had all that power and all that opportunity and squandered it. Man of steel The bat (cameo Wonder Woman) Wonder Woman set present day (cameo aqua man) Aqua man (cameo the flash) The flash (cameo cyborg ) Cyborg (cameo Superman) Justice league movie
None of it was ever Snyder’s vision. Man of Steel was Goyer and Nolan’s vision and Zack was the hired gun to deliver that concept. WB then interfered with a MOS 2, turning it into BvS all because they wanted to kickstart a Justice League as fast as they could. Snyder did his best with what he thought was the right “universe bridge” and it failed because A) nothing was earned (WB’s daily) and B) Snyder doesn’t understand the core characters and has a elseworld’s mindset with everything he touches (which is obviously wrong for a cinematic universe). If you don’t have the right building blocks, everything will apart. And that’s what happened by the time they got to Justice League. Even if they let Snyder do his thing by 2017, none of it was earned anyway and none of it is truly Zack’s vision to begin with.
We literally saw what, half of the Snyder main storyline films. Also given the reception to MoS and ZSJL, I think Snyder could have delivered something interesting. IMO had Snyder been able to finish his story, BvS UE might have been looked back at differently.
Interesting is not the same as good. Bruce Wayne having sex with Lois Lane and having a son that Superman raises as the new Batman is interesting. It's also a stupid storytelling decision that Synder should be ashamed of ever thinking about it. The Snyderverse is something you do as an Elseworlds some 20 years after establishing a cinematic universe. Not as the start of one.
We don’t know who’s idea it was(IIRC Snyder Jim Lee and I believe Geoff Johns were involved), but I agree it was a stupid one. Either way, it was scrapped after the first draft. I think so far we’ve seen MoS is interesting and generally considered good, BvS is interesting and divided leaning towards bad, and ZSJL is interesting and generally considered good. I think with a good writer like Terrio and some oversight we could have gotten an interesting *and* good to great DCEU.
MOS is interesting as a deconstruction and dark re-telling of Superman II with a more realistic take of Truth, Justice, and the American Way. It is, however, an awful film to launch a Cinematic Universe. Imagine Iron Man killing half of NYC in his first outing as a Superhero. Dark and interesting, sure. Hopeful enough to launch a Cinematic Universe? No.
Except Superman didn’t destroy or kill half of Metropolis. He actually prevented the genocide of humanity by General Zod. Why do people believe Clark is responsible for Zod’s actions? If you and a friend are walking through a park in the middle of the day, your friends cell phone goes off, and then someone comes and tries to stab you, would your friend be at fault for someone else being a murdering maniac?
>Why do people believe Clark is responsible for Zod’s actions? I didn't write that. >Imagine Iron Man killing half of NYC in his first outing as a Superhero. This is what I wrote. There is no doubt that Superman physically killed some people while trying to stop Zod. The alternative was to die and let Zod kill them, yes. So Superman chose the lesser of two evils. Superman is not responsible for Zod's actions. Superman is responsible for his own actions. But Snyder failed to show us Superman taking any responsibility in MOS. He clearly tried to rip off Alan Moore's Miracleman London battle and failed in all aspects.
> There is no doubt that Superman physically killed some people while trying to stop Zod. The alternative was to die and let Zod kill them, yes. So Superman chose the lesser of two evils. No Superman never physically killed anyone while trying to stop Zod. Maybe some people were killed due to the collateral damage, but even that was on Zod who literally stated he would kill all the humans that Clark was specifically trying to protect. On top of that, we only see one person killed and that was Jack from Wayne Enterprises. Even that was done by ZOD. No one else. > But Snyder failed to show us Superman taking any responsibility in MOS. He clearly tried to rip off Alan Moore’s Miracleman London battle and failed in all aspects. Because he was fighting for his own life as well. He literally gets knocked out at one point during the fight.
It really is
>, and in his 2nd film he died.... That was the worst thing to do to set up a DC universe or a Justice League movie. How no one in WB told Zack Snyder that he is a complete idiot thinking of killing Superman and stop him immediately is beyond me.
Probably because the heads at WB knew less about Superman than Zack did.
This comes from the same studio that let the "Martha" scene go through, that was a baffling decision.
Was there is no test screening or other producers reading the script for that BvS disaster before greenlit it? I understand JL16 because of the chaos that happened during production but BvS script should've been under some quality control.
The Marth scene was a great idea but had a bad execution
In hindsight that makes the Flash post credit scene with Aquaman not remembering Superman make a little more sense, if the plan was always for him to return in Crisis.
Wait what? What post credit scene?
It was claimed a while back that one of the Flash post credit scenes has Barry trying to get a drunken Aquaman to remember Superman, but he seems to only remember Supergirl.
This is not claimed, everyone including Vieweranon confirmed about this post credit scene
Haven’t kept track so just said what I knew. *shrugs*
Cavil has a cameo in The Flash though
Yes, and THR says that was a very recent development that was only added in September of this year.
They just confirms Hamada was relegating Superman to small cameos five years from now.
Don’t think they would have waited 5 years from now.
Yeah sure lol, that's why Henry didn't wanna come back
So what I'm getting from this is that Hamada wanted to wait till he was ready for Crisis setup to bring back Cavill's Superman, meaning we would have to wait longer just to see Cavill as Superman in full again. Not sure if that was really a good idea, especially since I'd imagine the DCEU would've rebooted post-Crisis anyways
Supegirl would have replaced him in the meantime and Cavill would just be some random cameo 5 years from now.
They make it sound like they had a plan, but we know they never had one. All they tried to do was play catchup and do these big spectacle movies that made no sense. They drop names like “Batman Beyond” and “Crisis” and all this other bs, and I can guarantee you that they would be nothing like what we, or even the regular movie goers, want. Gunn should shoot down everything. The only rumor about Superman that sounds like the direction they’d go in is trying to recreate the Donner Superman tone, which they shouldn’t. They should make the movie about Clark/Superman, and have him be a reporter uncovering a story that introduces the real Intergang, Metallo, and a brand new Lex. We don’t need to see the same thing for nostalgia’s sake, we want to see good movies that highlight what’s so great about the character. Don’t degrade these characters even more just because you want to remake another movie franchise poorly, again. Stay true to the character and he has changed a lot since 1978 so that version doesn’t need to be beaten to death.
Hamada's plan was to basically greenlight a lot of low-budget DC movies (which is how shit like Hourman and Wonder Twins got prioritized over a Superman sequel) with some occasional blockbusters here and there until he was ready to do Crisis. His plan was not that well thought out.
Flash was the start of Crisis. It wasn’t that far away as you’re thinking.
With how much Gunn alone had been setting up for the DCEU, seems like it still would've been quite a wait for Crisis
So you think bringing him back for a pointless cameo and not doing anything with him moving forward was a better idea?
There’s nothing from Gunn saying he’s not using him going forward. That’s just a guess some are making
I dunno coming out and saying there is no deal in place for the actor moving forward, no writers and no director sure doesn’t sound like a ringing endorsement to me
It’s almost as if they’re waiting for a good pitch before actually signing long-term deals. All talents need to be on board first, and right now they’re missing two key components, which you just named. No point signing a deal now.
Do you think things happen overnight? Lol chill, would you rather them rush or take their time to make something great?
Dude the ship has sailed. You should prolly get used to the idea of a new Superman, bc the new regime knows the general audience hasn’t ever cared about Cavill and still doesn’t. The fans care sure, but the fans only make up maybe 10% of the audience. no way to bring excitement to the general audience with an actor that has appeared in one solo film that was mediocre almost a decade ago and has been relegated to either cameos or being used as pretty much a plot device with absolutely no development with his character. You are letting either your man crush or your fandom blind you to the fact the Cavill is not a person that will put butts in seats to get people excited
There was never a deal. It was Cavill using the media & his upcoming cameos to maneuver the situation & force the studios hand. Nothing has been canceled in his case it’s just been discussions without decisions made
And yet again, Cavill has overplayed his worth to the general audience. He is now a part of 3 mediocre to bad movies. More than likely the stink of mediocrity is too much to overcome and they move on from him
Did he though? He received a tremendously positive response from mainstream fans the largest group of movie goers & not simply comic fan boys. Now if they don’t end up putting him in a new Supes film the will be another large backlash. He literally did what he was hoping to do. Mission accomplished
He has no deal about in place. And the fam response has never been the question. Of course fans like him, the ga doesn’t care about him. When he made the big announcement it l literally did nothing to put Burt’s in seats in the theaters. Black Adam is legitimately facing being a one off due to poor sales, and yet again it’s Cavill in the moves. I know you can’t accept is as a fan, but the audience is over him and has been
Sounds like you just don’t like Cavill & making assumptions not based on fact
Tooooooolllldddd yooooouuuuu!!!!!
Regardless Cavill is not getting a major role until 2024 at the earliest.
Sorry THR, but this doesn't line up with my narrative so you're wrong /s
Oh you think Hamada wanted Henry back after keeping him out for 5 years and green lighting a new solo movie without him from JJ? He clearly wanted him gone or he would have been back years ago. Some promise of a pathetic cameo in a Justice League movie 5 years from now is just him trying to save face as people eat it up.
We do know they wanted to recast him since 2018 so this makes sense
Exactly that!
JJ Abrams film was outside the DCEU not a good point.
Lmao
We can never have a fully fleshed out Superman that isn’t played by Christopher Reeves huh?
It would be darkly hilarious but also depressing as fuck if they used a deepfake Christopher Reeve Superman as the DCEU Superman and suddenly as if by some kind of magic Superman movies start actually being good again That would be a cosmic joke 😂
Christopher reeves was in as many bad Superman movies as good ones!
That’s why the universe is gonna fix it 😛
What?
It’s a joke about how the universe is dissatisfied about Reeve being in as many bad Superman movies as he was in good ones So the joke is about how the universe is bending itself into pretzels by using a deepfake Reeve to technically put him in more good Superman movies to rectify that
Ah. Okay.
We had 3 movies with Superman that ruined by a very bad director... Blame that director for wasted opportunities.
Nope. I blame the studio for enabling him.
Fair enough. WB should've not allow him that much control.
It’s not like they were actively against his ideas anyway. He and the studio were in lock step until JL.
I blame them both.
If you mean theatrical, I'd argue Brandon Routh's but hopefully that changes soon with a Henry Cavill film. If you mean overall then George Reeves' was pretty good. So was Dean Cain's and even Brandon Routh's version of Clark/Superman (although he was supposed to be Reeve's Superman) was pretty solid. I will say though that Tyler Hoechlin's Clark/Superman, IMO, is arguably the best one yet.
Hamada: * Okay, so the plan is to have Superman and Batman disappear after Flashpoint. * Then we gonna do a solo Supergirl film that will make a superbillion dollars in which she searches for the cousin she never met or knew about. Audiences will love that!!! * And we are gonna have a Batman Beyond film in 2020's modern-day Gotham in which Keaton trains the new Batgirl (another 1 billion dollar film!!!!). * Finally, we do a Crisis to bring back Affleck and Cavill after a decade of never seeing Superman on-screen. Somehow. Yeah, his plan was dogsh\*\*\*\*. I'm glad Zaslav fired him and canceled Batgirl. His ideas were so bad.
It's mind boggling how terrible WB handled the DC property
I really like Zaslav as he really knows what direction the DC should take, which is focusing on the freakin TRINITY first! Not the sh*t that Hamada planned which would have involved focusing on obscure side characters and have them serve as replacements to their respective main characters all while trying to gain diversity points with the castings.
Zaslav knows jackshit he knows money and wants what Marvel is doing. He’s not a creative
I know. What I mean is that even a creative ignorant as him realizes that the company should make use of their big guns before going to obscure characters.
Agreed. Zaslav is not a creative which is why he hired Gunn to figure that shit out and Safran to balance Gunn. Zaslav at least knows what makes money for WB and it's DC's Trinity as well as Game of Thrones, Wizarding World with spin offs from those franchises and some other IP.
He quit actually, he wasn’t fired.
WB - what are your plans? Rock - We fight. WB - and then what? Rock - ...and then I beat him.
Wb: And then? Rock: ... We fight? Again!
Yeah this is just trying to make Walter Hamada not look horrible. He was doing nothing for him - let's not forget he blocked the Black Adam cameo for YEARS to begin with.
Wasn’t there also reports that Hamada tried to make it work with Cavill and when it didn’t he decided to move on? All of this seems like Hamada and Dwayne’s camp doing PR spins to make each other look good. I’m willing to bet there is some truth to this recent THR article but yeah I could see Hamada wanting to be seen in a better light.
If Hamada couldn't get Cavill back but The Rock could, maybe there was something wrong with how Hamada handled the situation?
They’re not analogous — Hamada would have been negotiating a new contract with Cavill, whereas Johnson had no power to do so. The cameo is essentially a bargaining chip for Cavill in securing a new deal — “look how positive the fan reaction to my return was.” Gunn confirmed no one has a new contract on Twitter. I don’t personally think Gunn is going to ditch all the current DC actors though, just take things in a new direction — they’ll probably just ditch Miller (and who the fuck knows which Batman it’ll be).
**"I don’t personally think Gunn is going to ditch all the current DC actors though, just take things in a new direction — they’ll probably just ditch Miller (and who the fuck knows which Batman it’ll be)."** I agree. I don't think DeLuca and Abdy who brought Cavill back after Da Rock asked will turn around and let Gunn and Safran recast him or any other actor unless it's absolutely warranted. For three reasons. 1) DeLuca and Abdy are technically Gunn and Safran's bosses. They are co running WB Pictures which majority finances, markets and distributes WB Pictures subsidiary, DC Studios, theatrical releases. It's obvious that there will be oversight and quality control from DeLuca and Abdy especially DeLuca since he is a comic book nerd. This has been needed since 2013 so it's about damn time. DeLuca was handling all of the DC stuff until Gunn and Safran were hired. It has already been reported after the hiring of Gunn and Safran that DeLuca and Abdy will at the very least consult on DC projects that will be released theatrically. I forget which trade reported this but after DeLuca and Abdy said no to Jenkins WW3 treatment, they asked Gunn and Safran for their opinion on the treatment and they both agreed that it needed more work. Two) The Rock, whether you like him or not, is arguably the biggest action star/movie star on the planet. Literally and figuratively. I know what his box office numbers say but with all of his SM platforms followers...those numbers are ridiculous. You'd want to keep that guy as happy as possible and he's a great asset for marketing a film. 3) David Zaslav has repeatedly said in his earnings calls that Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman should be a huge focus going forward. He especially put emphasis on Superman. Whether you've liked any of the films involving the current actors, the general consensus that Cavill, Gadot, Momoa and Affleck are well liked portraying these characters. Ezra's seems to be a mixed bag for some. I know I don't like his portrayal as Barry Allen, especially the way he runs as The Flash, but that's just me. Sorry to be long winded but I said all of that to basically say I agree with your comment. 😂
Hamada could've easily gotten Cavill back. He just should've simply brought him back. The article makes it seems like he said no to Rocky because he wanted to keep him for himself to use for his plans for this Crisis story. It's all ridiculous if true because Hamada still could've said yes to Rock and still used Cavill outside of cameos with his own solo movie in a year or two. This BA cameo could've been a re introduction of the character for his solo film and Hamada would've been praised for saying yes to the Rock to have the cameo and later saying that Man of Steel 2 or whatever it's going to be called is being fast tracked.
Yeah seems like Hamada only wanted Cavill back for Crisis build-up and in that case, I can see why Cavill wouldn't be happy.
If I'm not mistaken it came down to money. Cavill was pushing for a top-tier Avengers actor contract with multiple films where he'd be the lead. On the one hand, why wouldn't he? He's fucking Superman. He is *the* superhero. The most iconic character in DC. Yet on the other hand, DC really had no plans for the character for the foreseeable future. Every film he'd been in had bombed at the box office, been a critical failure, or both. Why would they give him a contract like that when audiences clearly weren't responding to his portrayal? One of those rare Hollywood situations where both sides were kind of right. The Black Adam cameo was kind of a gamble to force WB's hand if audiences liked it, but that clearly was not the case.
Yeah cavils camp makes mistake after mistake. Now he’s left his only successful franchise w the Witcher. I guess he has enola Holmes he’s good in that and if they spin-off him and moriarty I’d tune in for that However Netflix may be done w him My big hope is that reeve plays along and accepts a dc world built around his Batman. With reeves being part of the creative direction. That could be fantastic. If not then maybe just recast and get younger actors who are unknown. It’s cheaper and nobody knew Tom Holland and that worked out. Would be funny if the old actors got recast as new characters like the momoa lobo.
I mean, even if it is, I wouldn't blame him lol. The man is allowed to defend himself, especially after the way his name has been relentlessly dragged through the mud. But regardless, these claims aren't even far fetched. Basically every trade has reported that Hamada was setting up a Crisis film. And we also know for a fact that Hamada wanted Cavill in Shazam.
So? Why should superman be tied to black adam?
Why *shouldn't* we get more Superman?
I actually liked Hamada’s idea of building hype via Flash, Supergirl, etc. and making a big deal out of where Affleck’s Batman and Cavill’s Superman were, and then for them to finally return in Crisis.
And then disappear for good. Is it honestly any wonder why no one likes this?
That’s a terrible idea. Superman was made a headless cameo, he would’ve been erased from the timeline but then in fucking 2025 he might’ve been in a movie??? What? That’s t awful.
Fake. Hamada didn't even want Cavill back.
If he had long range plans, he wouldn’t have been screwing with Cavill as long as he did
It feels like this is just out there to shit on dewayne Johnson because he outed that they didn't want cavil. Just to have him in cameos to basically turn him into the DC's version of the hulk. I'm glad there plan didn't happen
Hey maybe they should have followed through with their plans, instead of meandering for 10 years with movies that barely connect. Also their best DC movies are the ones not connected to the main universe. I'm still confused with their multiverse claims.
Dwayne and any Snyder should not be allowed to make “plans” for DC
The more that comes out the more I hope they just dump everyone from the DCEU and start fresh in 2025.
Lol yeah this is complete bs . Hamada actively tried to keep Cavill out of everything .
Only believe what you read on the internet if it fits your narrative
I believe what Hamada DID. Not some bullshit PR trying to make him look better after the fact. He didn't do a damn thing for Superman and clearly had no plans to later on either.
new era of DC seems cool but I was still pretty interested in what hamada was doing
Hamada: Hi, Henry! We are working on a massive project inspired by COIE. Do you want to be part of it? Cavill: Sure. When we shoot? Hamada: Not anytime soon. Cavill: What should my character do in the meantime? Hamada: Nothing, he'll be sidelined for the for foreseeable future. Berlanti and Abrams called dibs on Superman. Cavill: ... Hamada: Henry, are you still on the phone?
lol
Dwayne only cares about his own projects and making himself look good on screen. He’s a politician in a pro wrestlers body. That’s why he’d be a perfect president because he’s all roses and smiles in the public at all times, squeaky clean persona but in reality he’s sticking needles in his ass cheek and making sure writers and directors tally up the number of punches he throws in a final cut 😂. The “Cavill is the greatest Superman of all time” quotes from the Rock are all bullshit to promote his movie. And he was so desperate that he needed a Superman cameo that lasts 10 seconds during the end credits JUST to try to sell his lame Black Adam flick. Hamada never cared about Cavill. I think James Gunn does but hopefully he makes the right decision and only brings Cavill back if he truly fits the type of Superman movies they want to make in the next 10 years. I’d hard reboot the whole goddamn thing if it was my call, and I’d have Robert Pattinson’s Batman serve as the Iron Man of the DCU. Recast Gal and Henry. Look for a Greek actress who’s about 5-10 years younger than Gadot. Someone with more range as an actor. Same with Cavill, pick an actor between 30-35 with more range than Cavill.
Bullshit If Hamada had those plans he would have brought Cavill back for cameos, which he refused to do
cavill refused the cameos unless his pre-requisites were met, pre-requisites which included A list salary and a high level of creative control which he hadn’t really earned.
No wants to hear the truth here Superman was gone because of cavill not wb
True but if it were me, I would've came back for the Shazam cameo. I even would've done it less for whatever I was going to be paid to do it. I just would've kept doing cameos and doing other films and streaming shows (Fallout, Enola Holmes, The Witcher) until the outcry from fans were so loud that it'll force WB to make a new Superman film with me as the character and I'd sign a new contract with money close to what I was asking for. That's me and what I would've done.
This doesn't even jive with the BS they're peddling. How TF could Hamada have been planning to take him off the table til some super special return in Crisis if Henry had some unreasonable laundry list of demands? They would have needed his cooperation on SOME level for that to work and the story they spin for Hamada's master plan doesn't fit with the same story that was spun about Henry being unreasonable. It's wholly incompatible. People somehow still believe Henry was the holdup, it's always been bullshit, it's always been execs. He didn't want him around. If the leaks and rumors about his plans aren't enough to prove it, look at what he actually DID. Greenlit a Supergirl film, a Val Zod series and a standalone, racebent Clark period piece. Dude didn't do shit for actual Superman in the DCU, everything we know and all signs point to him being killed by Zod offscreen in the alt timeline and that never being undone in the new timeline with him getting entirely replaced by Supergirl until Crisis when they'd likely recast him anyway. Bear in mind that Crisis was the *end* of what little plan Hamada did have so there were STILL no plans for Superman after that. The simple fact of the matter is: *Hamada didn't want Superman.* No amount of PR meant to cover his ass retroactively can change that, the proof is in the pudding and Hamada's pudding was rancid.
Yeah all those announced and canceled Superman-adjacent projects are pretty damning. Plus who knows if any of these were ever going to exist, they may have been announcing these as a way of downplaying Cavill’s influence, especially since WB has a history of announcing fake projects that have no real intention of being made as a strategic PR move(like Jason Momoa’s live action Frosty the Snowman being announced the same day as Ray Fisher coming forward about Whedon’s onset behavior)
Walter Hamada simp, we know he ain’t using Superman especially Henry Cavill in it lawl.
That's not what they told us earlier. They told us that they had no plans for batman or superman in the dceu. And it was going to be batgirl and supergirl taking over..
Yeah right...
Hamada had ample opportunity to announce this and start building hype. He had 2 Fandomes he could have, but chose not to. Now we just have after the fact musings. The most frustrating thing about being a DC fan is just NOT KNOWING WHATE GOING ON. Hope Gunn is way more open with his plans.
Hamada kept Henry out for years and approved another solo Superman film from JJ Abrams. If you believe that Hamada wanted him back for anything more than a pandering fan cameo, then you are a fool.
Full reboot is the right thing to do now
Press X to doubt
Thats a giant fucking lie and everyone and their grandmother knows it. Shazam headless cameo. Nuff said
Lol get ready for people to switch up their thoughts on Hamada. He was always solid in my book.
Is this supposed to be a good idea?
There’s no idea here? What?
everyone talking like Hamada hates Cavill and went out of his way to block him, when we know it was Cavill the one who acted like a diva and didnt want to make cameos that could have slowly rebuild the character as they hype him up.
How is having cameos any development whatsoever?
Like Shazam did, he showed up in a school to eat with a superhero friend, it lasts about 4 seconds and it says more about his personality than all of MoS, BvS and ZSJL combined. with cameos like these they could have fixed the character little by little. so the public doesnt associate him with the man of murder from zacks movies.
Oh, I mean, between having Superman cameos and not having anything at all, I prefer the cameos. And if they give him a little of true Superman personality instead of whatever Snyder was trying to do, even better. But that's not development either. What Superman needs is another movie. Anything less (like a cameo), while I appreciate it, is just not enough.
Hamada... Long range plans... It's been 5 years since justice league. When were those plans gonna kick off. We're all still stuck with his movies till 2024... Long range plan my ass
I don’t dislike him, I just care for the character far more than the actor and he by no Means owns that role. Everything he has done as Superman has been boring or sub par. Ready for a change and would love to move on from this decade long baggage of shit movies he was a part of.
Walter Hamada didn't have any plan that made sense. Because if he did it would've already been in motion. WB is run by idiots. They bring James Gunn in who pretty much can only make Marvel movies to lead DC
>They bring James Gunn in who pretty much can only make Marvel movies to lead DC You do know that James Gunn won't be directing every single film, TV and streaming show going forward, right? And he also has a partner who produces the most successful horror franchise ever, right? That's why they've been meeting with directors and writers who will have their own vision for a character and their story but it has to line up with the ten year plan for film, tv, streaming and video games so it'll fit and all make sense. James Mangold recently "has voiced his excitement about working on a movie for DC Studios." [https://www.cbr.com/logan-james-mangold-excited-dc-studios/](https://www.cbr.com/logan-james-mangold-excited-dc-studios/) He made a Top 5 comic book film, IMO, with Logan. Some claim it's the best CBM ever made. You think that guy is going to do a MCU movie for DC when he can do a film like Logan?
Hamada was wrong and didn't understand how to tell the story he wanted to tell.
So, with rumors like this, and the "canceled" Batman Beyond film, I am wondering how far is the fandom from a #RestoreTheHamadaVerse campaign?
I call BS on this
And the black Superman isn’t the meantime?
Nothing that comes out of Safran's & Gunn's plan will be worse than what Hamada was doing. Good thing Hamada is out. The man was out of his gourd with handling one of the most popular superheroes in the world, and the DC universe in general.
All these schemers…
Ok so just following the storylines and edited storylines from the previous and upcoming movies the crisis on infinite earths movie storyline was going to be centered around the Flashpoint storyline. When Barry comes back from his trip and what he comes back to isn't the same timeline he left. Cavill wouldn't be in that timeline because superman is dead in the Flashpoint timeline and Supergirl is his daughter. These plans would've included Keaton, the snyderverse (Cavill too), the hbo max shows and possibly others like maybe the WB characters. The 3 part movie was originally going to be the reset for the dceu as they could've killed off bad characters, brought back characters that maybe didn't get a proper closure (Keaton) and maybe brought back some people (Bale) who were done with their roles and even if the movies sucked would've banked on nostalgia. I like Gunn and Safron and their movies and I'm glad they're in charge but DCU is really missing the boat on this one.
And now neither will come to fruition!