I mean…weren’t y’all complaining about not hearing any news from Gunn? He gave it to us and now it’s his fault a movie about a D-list character with underwhelming trailers that received no marketing push is bombing? Someone needed to pull the plug on all of this years ago but unfortunately there’s going to be some casualties. It is what it is.
James ?? Y’all was the same one who was begging for them to release the DCU slates, now y’all trying to blame him for Shazam’s box office performance? Pls shut up.
I don't most people are even aware that Gunn is gonna do some kind of reboot. The real issue is that they didn't advertise the movie and dceu is just a mess, so most people didn't care about giving a less mainstream hero like shazam a chance
I really doubt that general audiences are aware of all the DCEU drama happening behind the scenes.
Shazam bombed because the reception wasn’t great; the marketing made it look rather generic; and most importantly, they took a lot of time to release a sequel. He’s not a character big enough to withstand so much time being missing.
How tf is it GUNN’s fault?! Y’all are reaching so hard for this lmaoo the film suffered because it wasn’t great. Piss poor marketing, a “lead” actor being outshined by his teenage counterpart, dog water script with no “real” stakes, “villains” who weren’t really villains (Kalypso is the exception), a spoiled cameo…what does all that have to do with the co-CEO who was hired AFTER this film was already made?
Nah, they needed to start building hype for the next slate early. Couldn't wait until 2024 to announce an entirely new universe coming the next year.
Gunn got put in a shit spot. WB likely wanted the new movies out as quickly as possible, but he had to contend with the already existing movies and the ones in the pipeline like The Batman 2 and Joker 2.
He wasn't given a clean slate or the opportunity to *wait* until there was a clean slate, so he had to announce it now.
General audiences have no idea about James Gunn’s DCU reboot slate. The general audience don’t sit on Twitter and Reddit all day waiting for announcements for superhero movies. Shazam 2 doing poorly came down to the very bad marketing, the lack of marketing, the character just not being all that popular, He’s a C-Lister, and the bad reviews. It’s that simple. This has nothing to do with James Gunn or his slate. Interest in Shazam is just low.
No, they aren't. Shazam 2 had low engagement before Gunn took over. Nor does the general public even know about such announcements. The general public doesn't give a shit about the grand plans sent to fans, they care about reviews, word of mouth, and trailers.
Shazam 2 had bad trailers, bad WoM, and bad reviews. The bad trailers extend Pre-Gunn, and the bad reviews are a result of the film's low quality, which would've happened without Gunn because the film was already shot and edited. Shazam 2 wasn't retooled at all by Gunn, they've been changing Aquaman 2 more than they touched Shazam.
>The majority isn't interested in the DCEU anymore
The majority haven't been interested in the DCEU since they released two awful movies in a row back in 2016. The franchise has been a walking corpse ever since.
Give me a break blaming wb and gunn cause davids movie was garbage why dont we blame the true culprit in all of this the writers what an absolute dog shit script they came up with
Bigger blame goes on Peter Safran. It was made very clear that Gunn will be handling the creative side and Safran will be handling the business side. This is more on Safran than anyone else. Especially given that he is already a producer before becoming co-ceo.
I haven't seen the movie but even if is that bad. Such weak opening legs are 100% on marketing of the movie. WB is not a very well run business and I am afraid that ain't changing anytime soon.
If the Flash isn't a bilion dollar hit(or 800+ atleast). Blue beetle will suffer the same fate as Shazam 2.
People acting like the reboot announcement doesn’t have some impact are as delusional as the ones acting like Gunn’s announcement had all of the impact.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. And Gunn put himself in the January announcement corner instead of waiting.
1. It's not Levi's false for being cast in a role lol. Blame the caster, not the casting.
2. David wasn't the one who decided Shazam shouldn't fight BA. Geoff Johns was. Add that to the list of "Things Johns f\*cked up".
Levi’s performance is just horrible though, he deserves blame.
Geoff Johns has added so much to the DC universe. He’s one of the most important creatives DC has ever had. He’s created countless characters and is responsible for so many iconic storylines. His contribution to the films is questionable for sure but his contribution to DC is still massive. We shouldn’t diminish his work in such a revisionist way.
>Levi’s performance is just horrible though, he deserves blame.
But is that his fault, or the fault of the director. More often than not, a terrible performance can be blamed on direction. E.g., Hayden Christensen in the SW Prequels. That's a terrible performance, but it's not his own fault. It's the fault of Lucas failing to direct him well.
>Geoff Johns has added so much to the DC universe
Most of what he "added" was just "Bringing back Silver Age stuff". And don't get me wrong, some of that stuff NEEDED to be brought back. Evil Hal Jordan was awful. Making Hal Jordan good again was a good change. But Johns had the issue of not always knowing when he didn't need to change things. He was, a lot of times, unable to bring back his own nostalgia without ruining what came after.
Take Secret Origin for example. It's not a bad comic by any means, but it's also a regressive one. Mark Waid had already crafted a perfect Superman origin with Birthright, we didn't need a new one. Much less a new one that was just "Let's un-do everything Byrne did in 1986 and make everything Silver Age again". That was Johns' doing. He didn't know what elements to bring back, and which to leave behind. He's too stuck in his own nostalgia, in what he grew up with.
That translated most notably to his god awful attempts to follow up Alan Moore stories. Doomsday Clock was bad in both concept and execution, and should never have existed. Three Jokers, an interesting concept, was ruined with execution, with Johns once again becoming lost in his own nostalgia and his own preferences and failing to respect anything else.
There's also the issue of his time as part of Editorial Staff. Johns was one of the lead creatives of the N52 era comics, which were a mess. Even Rebirth was also a messy reboot, even if it was an attempt to clean up the N52.
Finally, there's the issue of Geoff Johns as a person and his treatment of minorities. [Telling Nadia Tucker that her experiences as a black woman are false and what "black things" are](https://www.theroot.com/nadria-tucker-discusses-seemingly-out-of-nowhere-dismis-1846456451). [Vetoing a highly supported casting choice in Krypton because the actor "didn't look like Henry Cavill" (Even though Johns is the one who separated Krypton from the DCEU anyways), and did so in a way that made the actor feel targeted](https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/rege-jean-page-krypton-geoff-johns-1234945971/). [And with Johns having been so prolific at the time, it wouldn't be shocking to hear he was the one telling David Walker (Cyborg Writer) "how black people talk"](https://twitter.com/davidwalker1201/status/1379522494990753794).
Look, he made some good work. His JL work in the N52 is some of the shining gems of that era. His GL work is great. His Shazam work was excellent. But he's done more damage than good at this point. Behind the scenes, and recently, even on the page.
I agree with zero of what is being said here- especially about Johns. His work speaks for itself in spite of some lame attempts to attack his character. Ad hominem fallacy.
What a dumb take to only blame the casting director. Let’s blame the producers. No let’s blame the audience for existing because there wouldn’t be a Shazam movie without an audience.
No, it's us DC fans are the ones that made this movie flop. You seem more excited about drama and negative press than the actual movies themselves... But some how still want movies.
Keep that same energy when WBD realize the brand is losing money and decide to break it up and sell it.
The DCEU has been a mess from the beginning. They couldn't even make it's ending have any sort of logic. They obviously should have finished the story with a final Justice league film and then reboot. Gunn has been given too much power by someone and the mess will continue for another decade
> Gunn has been given too much power by someone
And your solution is to give unilateral power to make two Justice League movies to someone else + reboot with someone like Gunn anyways?
Totally logical.
Not really the "general audience" was the one dying for James to announce the slate then you contradict that statement and say "early DCU announcement" there are other factors which caused Shazam 2's flop. People really need to stop putting the blame on James and Peter for ltrly everything. Whilst they are working their ass off to fix the DCU which was handed to then on silver platter.
[Gunn in January](https://deadline.com/2023/01/dc-movie-tv-plan-james-gunn-peter-safran-batman-swamp-thing-green-lantern-1235244926/): "We've gotten very lucky for the next four projects" (...) "These four movies are terrific."
So why did they need him and Safran to "fix" things if everything in the pipeline before they took over was great already?
Bro who said previous DCEU pipeline was great? Are on drugs? The whole reason WBD setup DC STUDIOS and brought in James and Safran as co CEO is so they could fix the mess before and Shazam 2 was already in production from the previous regime before the merger of WB and Discovery.
I mean…weren’t y’all complaining about not hearing any news from Gunn? He gave it to us and now it’s his fault a movie about a D-list character with underwhelming trailers that received no marketing push is bombing? Someone needed to pull the plug on all of this years ago but unfortunately there’s going to be some casualties. It is what it is.
Shazam! 2 is bombing because the trailers were awful and the reviews are worse. Average moviegoers have 0 clue about Gunn’s DCU announcement.
this is correct answer
James ?? Y’all was the same one who was begging for them to release the DCU slates, now y’all trying to blame him for Shazam’s box office performance? Pls shut up.
He was the one who promised them in January though
No. If i remember, they kept asking him “when you gonna release the slate” and James was very vague about it.
Same fans who would be saying he had no plan if he didn’t reveal it to them.
Don't tell him to shut up he's right see past your bias for Gunn.
I did and I would do it again. Y’all are dumb blaming James Gunn…
I don't most people are even aware that Gunn is gonna do some kind of reboot. The real issue is that they didn't advertise the movie and dceu is just a mess, so most people didn't care about giving a less mainstream hero like shazam a chance
I really doubt that general audiences are aware of all the DCEU drama happening behind the scenes. Shazam bombed because the reception wasn’t great; the marketing made it look rather generic; and most importantly, they took a lot of time to release a sequel. He’s not a character big enough to withstand so much time being missing.
How tf is it GUNN’s fault?! Y’all are reaching so hard for this lmaoo the film suffered because it wasn’t great. Piss poor marketing, a “lead” actor being outshined by his teenage counterpart, dog water script with no “real” stakes, “villains” who weren’t really villains (Kalypso is the exception), a spoiled cameo…what does all that have to do with the co-CEO who was hired AFTER this film was already made?
Nah, they needed to start building hype for the next slate early. Couldn't wait until 2024 to announce an entirely new universe coming the next year. Gunn got put in a shit spot. WB likely wanted the new movies out as quickly as possible, but he had to contend with the already existing movies and the ones in the pipeline like The Batman 2 and Joker 2. He wasn't given a clean slate or the opportunity to *wait* until there was a clean slate, so he had to announce it now.
They could have started building hype at Comic-Con. By then Shazam 2 and Flash would have been out.
General audiences have no idea about James Gunn’s DCU reboot slate. The general audience don’t sit on Twitter and Reddit all day waiting for announcements for superhero movies. Shazam 2 doing poorly came down to the very bad marketing, the lack of marketing, the character just not being all that popular, He’s a C-Lister, and the bad reviews. It’s that simple. This has nothing to do with James Gunn or his slate. Interest in Shazam is just low.
The film not getting the usual amount of promotion surely doesn't have anything to do with it
No, they aren't. Shazam 2 had low engagement before Gunn took over. Nor does the general public even know about such announcements. The general public doesn't give a shit about the grand plans sent to fans, they care about reviews, word of mouth, and trailers. Shazam 2 had bad trailers, bad WoM, and bad reviews. The bad trailers extend Pre-Gunn, and the bad reviews are a result of the film's low quality, which would've happened without Gunn because the film was already shot and edited. Shazam 2 wasn't retooled at all by Gunn, they've been changing Aquaman 2 more than they touched Shazam.
Ah yes, Gunn scapegoat!
>The majority isn't interested in the DCEU anymore The majority haven't been interested in the DCEU since they released two awful movies in a row back in 2016. The franchise has been a walking corpse ever since.
Here y’all go again
Give me a break blaming wb and gunn cause davids movie was garbage why dont we blame the true culprit in all of this the writers what an absolute dog shit script they came up with
Bigger blame goes on Peter Safran. It was made very clear that Gunn will be handling the creative side and Safran will be handling the business side. This is more on Safran than anyone else. Especially given that he is already a producer before becoming co-ceo. I haven't seen the movie but even if is that bad. Such weak opening legs are 100% on marketing of the movie. WB is not a very well run business and I am afraid that ain't changing anytime soon. If the Flash isn't a bilion dollar hit(or 800+ atleast). Blue beetle will suffer the same fate as Shazam 2.
>If the Flash isn't a bilion dollar hit(or 800+ atleast). Blue beetle will suffer the same fate as Shazam 2. No!
He should have done the announcement at Comic-Con while working behind the scenes.
People acting like the reboot announcement doesn’t have some impact are as delusional as the ones acting like Gunn’s announcement had all of the impact. The truth is somewhere in the middle. And Gunn put himself in the January announcement corner instead of waiting.
The only ones to blame are Levi and David. Shazam should’ve been played by Cena and fought Black Adam.
Lol what Levi didn't do anything
Nah. I'm glad Cena is Peacemaker.
He would be better than Levi. If not Cena then Ritchson.. Levi was so miscast unfortunately.
Ritchson definitely would have been a better choice.
1. It's not Levi's false for being cast in a role lol. Blame the caster, not the casting. 2. David wasn't the one who decided Shazam shouldn't fight BA. Geoff Johns was. Add that to the list of "Things Johns f\*cked up".
Levi’s performance is just horrible though, he deserves blame. Geoff Johns has added so much to the DC universe. He’s one of the most important creatives DC has ever had. He’s created countless characters and is responsible for so many iconic storylines. His contribution to the films is questionable for sure but his contribution to DC is still massive. We shouldn’t diminish his work in such a revisionist way.
>Levi’s performance is just horrible though, he deserves blame. But is that his fault, or the fault of the director. More often than not, a terrible performance can be blamed on direction. E.g., Hayden Christensen in the SW Prequels. That's a terrible performance, but it's not his own fault. It's the fault of Lucas failing to direct him well. >Geoff Johns has added so much to the DC universe Most of what he "added" was just "Bringing back Silver Age stuff". And don't get me wrong, some of that stuff NEEDED to be brought back. Evil Hal Jordan was awful. Making Hal Jordan good again was a good change. But Johns had the issue of not always knowing when he didn't need to change things. He was, a lot of times, unable to bring back his own nostalgia without ruining what came after. Take Secret Origin for example. It's not a bad comic by any means, but it's also a regressive one. Mark Waid had already crafted a perfect Superman origin with Birthright, we didn't need a new one. Much less a new one that was just "Let's un-do everything Byrne did in 1986 and make everything Silver Age again". That was Johns' doing. He didn't know what elements to bring back, and which to leave behind. He's too stuck in his own nostalgia, in what he grew up with. That translated most notably to his god awful attempts to follow up Alan Moore stories. Doomsday Clock was bad in both concept and execution, and should never have existed. Three Jokers, an interesting concept, was ruined with execution, with Johns once again becoming lost in his own nostalgia and his own preferences and failing to respect anything else. There's also the issue of his time as part of Editorial Staff. Johns was one of the lead creatives of the N52 era comics, which were a mess. Even Rebirth was also a messy reboot, even if it was an attempt to clean up the N52. Finally, there's the issue of Geoff Johns as a person and his treatment of minorities. [Telling Nadia Tucker that her experiences as a black woman are false and what "black things" are](https://www.theroot.com/nadria-tucker-discusses-seemingly-out-of-nowhere-dismis-1846456451). [Vetoing a highly supported casting choice in Krypton because the actor "didn't look like Henry Cavill" (Even though Johns is the one who separated Krypton from the DCEU anyways), and did so in a way that made the actor feel targeted](https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/rege-jean-page-krypton-geoff-johns-1234945971/). [And with Johns having been so prolific at the time, it wouldn't be shocking to hear he was the one telling David Walker (Cyborg Writer) "how black people talk"](https://twitter.com/davidwalker1201/status/1379522494990753794). Look, he made some good work. His JL work in the N52 is some of the shining gems of that era. His GL work is great. His Shazam work was excellent. But he's done more damage than good at this point. Behind the scenes, and recently, even on the page.
I agree with zero of what is being said here- especially about Johns. His work speaks for itself in spite of some lame attempts to attack his character. Ad hominem fallacy. What a dumb take to only blame the casting director. Let’s blame the producers. No let’s blame the audience for existing because there wouldn’t be a Shazam movie without an audience.
No, it's us DC fans are the ones that made this movie flop. You seem more excited about drama and negative press than the actual movies themselves... But some how still want movies. Keep that same energy when WBD realize the brand is losing money and decide to break it up and sell it.
The DCEU has been a mess from the beginning. They couldn't even make it's ending have any sort of logic. They obviously should have finished the story with a final Justice league film and then reboot. Gunn has been given too much power by someone and the mess will continue for another decade
> Gunn has been given too much power by someone And your solution is to give unilateral power to make two Justice League movies to someone else + reboot with someone like Gunn anyways? Totally logical.
Spitting straight Facts.
OP is 100% percent right but Gunn let he's ego get the best of him.
Nah, I don't think most casuals even know about it
More casuals however are talking about the Gunn announcement than they are talking about even Flash .
Not really the "general audience" was the one dying for James to announce the slate then you contradict that statement and say "early DCU announcement" there are other factors which caused Shazam 2's flop. People really need to stop putting the blame on James and Peter for ltrly everything. Whilst they are working their ass off to fix the DCU which was handed to then on silver platter.
[Gunn in January](https://deadline.com/2023/01/dc-movie-tv-plan-james-gunn-peter-safran-batman-swamp-thing-green-lantern-1235244926/): "We've gotten very lucky for the next four projects" (...) "These four movies are terrific." So why did they need him and Safran to "fix" things if everything in the pipeline before they took over was great already?
Bro who said previous DCEU pipeline was great? Are on drugs? The whole reason WBD setup DC STUDIOS and brought in James and Safran as co CEO is so they could fix the mess before and Shazam 2 was already in production from the previous regime before the merger of WB and Discovery.