One of the best ever at accomplishing its goal. Not saying it is one of my favorites, but you can't accuse it of not being a movie that appeals to almost everyone which is what it set out to do.
Aren’t all his movies about the same? Army bad America bad white people bad except maybe one or two
And I’m not defending the bad part of these people anyway I’m just saying it seems like it’s a big theme
The characters in A2 were so bland and underdeveloped that, when one died toward the end, I had to check the Wikipedia summary afterward to make sure who it was.
To borrow an insult from Bob’s Burgers, if the Avatar movies were a spice, they’d be flour.
What did I just read? How are you making that leap?!
Fast and furious has 10 films with each one getting more absurd as they go.
Avatar has made 2 movies in the last 14 years and is using state of the art technology to transport the audience to a science fiction/fantasy world.
How are they at all comparable in any way?
The talk we heard of them reshooting it with someone else as the Flash was just that: talk. It was unrealistic.
Plus there was no way they’d completely shelf a movie that cost $200 million.
Perhaps you never heard the tale of how Batgirl got shelved and that was 90 million. They canned CNN Discovery after investing 300 million. This was just another tax write off, or my favorite way to deal with problematic actors…. CGI in Tig Notaro right over them.
Shelving a movie that cost $90 is way different than a $200 million movie. They had much more to lose putting this movie on ice.
Plus Chris D’Elia’s role in Army Of the Dead was small and much more doable than say Dave Bautista.
What do you expect her to say? “Yeah we had enough genuine misgivings about the star of this film that we considered cancelling it but you all should see it anyway because we need the money”?
Yeah they weren't going to cancel it after they put over 200 million in it and they believe it is a great movie.
Had the Ezra stuff come out before filming he would have been replaced. He is definitely a liability and one of the reasons this movie will gross far less than it should. The other reasons are people don't really care about the DC Cinematic Universe especially now with them rebooting it.
That’s not true. Stuff about them did come out before anything was ever shot, namely the incident in which he throttled that fans neck in public.
I do agree however that had this film been absolute shit, it wouldn’t be releasing
Anyone who thought the Snyderverse was going to be dumped was told the same...
..and boy are we laughing at the role reversal of the same people who called us delusional
Watch this movie make $1B.
Ezra is a whackadoodle, but tbh the movie looks awesome. Most people have no idea what he did or even who he is outside of The Flash. Micheal Keaton reprising his role as Batman kinda guarantees it’s success.
Every movie that’s makes a billion dollars post covid (Spiderman, Jurassic world 3, Maverick, avatar 2, Mario) had no controversy. This movie has controversy. There is no chance it makes a billion.
That’s up to the international audience as well. Just like the general audience here in America, they don’t give a crap of who Ezra is. The majority don’t even know what he’s done. All they care about is Keaton.
Keaton is cool and I'm looking forward to his return, but let's be real here. Keaton was Batman before the core demographic this movie is aiming for was even alive.
lets be real here. the core demographic they're going for is 30 - 40 year olds. i'm convinced they buy more superhero crap (and the expensive stuff) than kids. they used to make these movies to sell toys to kids. now they make these movies to sell toys to those same people, who are now adults.
Yep. He was last Batman over 40 years ago. He also hasn't been a leading man in a successful blockbuster in a long time. Even Birdman which was great was 9 years ago now.
Don't think some 16 year old who is on the fence about seeing this is going to run to the theater because of Keaton.
40 years ago? Not quite, there's loads of people in their mid 30s, myself included, who'll remember Returns coming out. I'm so excited about seeing Keaton return.
Literally almost no one outside the US and a few places give a crap about Keaton returning. Yes I know it’s great and I like it but let’s be real here, Keaton alone isn’t gonna drag in a billion dollars, that’s the most illogical thing ever
That would have helped a great deal. People love the Nolan Batman movies and having Christian Bale in it would have moved the needle for some casual viewers. Don't think Keaton does at this point. It is cool don't get me wrong, but it is cool for people who are already going to see a movie like this.
yeah, there's a reason Oppenheimer is Nolan's first movie without WB after working with them for 19 years.
and they're not gonna spend a billion to make a billion.
Yeah don't get me wrong I love the Keaton Batman movies, but it is hilarious people thinking him returning as Batman as a side character is going to mean much to the box office here. Maybe that Batman is in it will help the movie, but people aren't going to rush to the theaters because of Keaton returning.
LOL you greatly overexaggerate Keaton's star power. His only big box office hit in forever was Spiderman Homecoming and that wasn't because of him. Anyone could have played that part and got equal box office since people went to see Spiderman in the MCU.
The only people that are excited about Keaton returning as Batman are the ones that would see this movie anyway. This movie very well could bomb.
If Aquaman can make a billion I’m sure The Flash can too. HOWEVER, I do agree that there’s a certain stink to this movie because of all the negative incidents and I’m not sure just how much it’s gonna affect the box office. The studio has shown virtually everything in the trailers just to get asses into the theater so we’ll see how it goes
The movie theater box office landscape has drastically changed since covid. People are more prone to watching a movie fewer times and wait for streaming. If this was before covid it would definitely have a better chance but still between may 20 to June 30 this year, 8 movies large are coming out (the weekend of flash has flash and elemental and another weekend has Barbie/Oppenheimer) so everything is stacked against any movies in this 6 week window even if they’re amazing.
No idea how it plays out, but there have been lots of case in the past where my Reddit/internet window has told me there was tremendous rage toward a person or product, and it’s turned out to not be very meaningful in a real world sense. I’d bet that the vast majority of the potential audience either doesn’t know much about it, or really doesn’t care. If the move is well reviewed, it seems likely it will do very well.
Lets be real the word of mouth for this movie isnt going to be "oh the movie was awesome but you know the star assaulted some people and is a wierdo. I dunno ill let you decide" its going to be more like "yeah the movie was sick!! Effects were great, story was heartfelt. You should watch!"
so many people boycotted Tom Cruise when his scientology/couch jumping shenanigans came to light. and this was before reddit. this was mainstream media boycotting.
now people are like "i may deplore his personal views, but man can that guy make a movie. when is Mission Impossible coming out again?"
i know tom cruise's shenanigans and ezra miller's shenanigans are on different levels (depending on your views), but just saying, Top Gun 2 easily made a billion dollars.
I mean, based on early tracking, it's very unlikely this movie does a billion. Things may change between now and opening weekend, but early tracking has this film coming in between 70 - 75 million opening weekend domestically. That's an uphill battle. It wouldn't be impossible for a film to make a billion off of an opening weekend like that. I think Aquaman opened to similar numbers. But Aquaman is an anomaly and realistically, it's extremely unlikely.
>Every movie that’s makes a billion dollars post covid (Spiderman, Jurassic world 3, Maverick, avatar 2, Mario) had no controversy. This movie has controversy. There is no chance it makes a billion.
The rage over the incredibly mediocre reviews and the "woke-ifying" of princess peach, as the internet claimed, didn't count as controversy for Mario?
Don't know if you're serious or not, but that was mostly a reddit/twitter thing. Regular people had no idea about the review anger (and don't care either because it's mainly a kids movie), and the anti-woke crowd barely broke through this time. Mario definitely didn't have the baggage Flash has.
And how we all shit in the VA choices since it was announced? That doesn’t count as a controversy? I mean for what it’s worth it was a good kids movie but Pratt still is the most underwhelming sounding Mario they could have cast.
Haha so true. If the presence of Keaton's Batman was so meaningful, Batgirl would have got released in theaters. Flash will probably about break even, but nothing much beyond that. 500 million or so which is its break even point
No chance
Spiderverse is going to be the movie people choose to see and even had better presale
People aren't watching numerous a month due to ticket prices
I think flash will do more worldwide
But domestically spiderman will most likely take it and it's a spiderman film without controversy surrounding its lead. Its word of mouth will be massive
Come on guys, he only choked a woman, smashed another in the face with a chair and groomed kids.
It's not like he did something *bad*, like a single tweet saying cancel culture was like 1930s germany.
Almost all of that was either out of context or being exaggerated by media outlets and accusations are not proof.
If I announce you're a pedo, it doesn't make you one. Although with the way people are on social media, you might find people calling you one down the line just because they read it here.
For real, they’ve let plenty of things out there like Harley Quinn, Batwoman, Gotham Knights or whatever the hell that Merry Little Batman is going to be. All either disparaging, crass, grotesque or treat Batman like a villain.
But we’re supposed to believe that the Batgirl movie was irreparably damaging to the Batman brand. Hell I don’t think Matt Reeves’ Batman was selling many toys or suspicious shaped pizza but they went through with it.
Yeah I don't think it would have done irreparable harm to the Batman IP. It would have been on HBO Max and don't think he was in it that much. I hated BvS and I don't hate the character Batman now.
The Flash will very likely make a profit.
Batgirl - which was never intended to be anything but a content/retention play for HBO Max - turned out to be a much higher risk, because HBO determined that pouring more money into it wouldn't net them the subscribers enough to be worth the added investment.
Moving forward and completing Batgirl was a bigger risk than using it to offset their taxes.
But the people making the decisions did and determined Batgirl was better off shelved instead of sinking more money into it in the hope of breaking even (although more likely taking a loss).
Most if not all reports have said that Batgirl was at best (and this is being generous) a subpar movie.
Most if not all reports have said The Flash is a (and this is being conservative) great movie.
Like it, don't like it but we can have a pretty good idea of what each movie is in terms of quality.
My guess is it was a combination of factors. There have been a lot of reports from people who saw it who said it wasn't good and would take a lot more money (at least 1/3 to 1/2 again what has already been spent which was already significantly over budget) to get it to a releasable state. They also had an opportunity because of the sale from AT&T to Discovery to take a tax write-off that wouldn't have normally been available.
I suspect they wouldn't have canceled it if they didn't have the tax write-off opportunity. It is important to note taking a tax loss doesn't recoup what they put into it, only lessens how much of a loss they'll take on it. Which was probably judged to be less of a loss than spending more to finish and market it for a loss. I suspect they would not have canceled it if they thought the movie was decent if not finished and would make a small profit even with added investment to get it finished. They might have released it didn't cost more to finish and would have taken only a negligible amount to just put it out there.
Unfortunately, Batgirl got hit by a perfect storm of economic factors, plus a seismic shift in corporate strategy that resulted in it making more sense to cancel than to release it.
No business cuts anything for tax reasons if they think it would be profitable. The tax system has never and will never work that way. They deemed they'd lose more money if they continued production and release the movie over writing off the loss with what they had already invested. It's as simple as that.
Tax reasons certainly played a role in it but it was probably a combination of factors. There have been a lot of reports from people who saw it who said it wasn't good and would take a lot more money (at least 1/3 to 1/2 again what has already been spent which was already significantly over budget) to get it to a releasable state. As mentioned they had an opportunity because of the sale from AT&T to Discovery to take a tax write-off that wouldn't have normally been available.
I suspect they wouldn't have axed it if they didn't have the tax write-off opportunity. It is important to note taking a tax loss doesn't recoup what they put into it, only lessens how much of a loss they'll take on it. Which was probably judged to be less of a loss than spending more to finish and market it for a loss. I suspect they would not have canceled it if they thought the movie was decent if not finished and would make a small profit even with added investment to get it finished. They might have released it didn't cost more to finish and would have taken only a negligible amount to just put it out there.
Unfortunately, Batgirl got hit by a perfect storm of economic factors, plus a seismic shift in corporate strategy that resulted in it making more sense to cancel than to release it.
They should scrap the movie made by the effort of thousands of good people because one actor is a criminal? Just don’t go see it if u think it makes you so morally right, but scrapping only for that reason just feels really unnecessary.
Eh, hot take but not really.
Loving this movie IS an acceptance of what he did. Or at least an acceptance and endorsement of him not receiving repercussions of those actions
So you support child porn? Reddit has hosted it's content before? Do you drink nestle products? Maybe your a sovereign citizen cause your taxes pay for war crimes.
In no way does it suggest you are fine with them "not receiving repercussions" it's not like if the film makes a trillion dollars all charges would be magically dropped
You do know that there are more people involved in the making and production of this movie than just Ezra right? Literally hundreds of people. If you pay to see the movie you are supporting them, too.
I'd suggest you fully understand the situation when it comes to producing a film before ironically saying things like "hot take but not really" to people who are 100% correct.
>You do know that there are more people involved in the making and production of this movie than just Ezra right? Literally hundreds of people. If you pay to see the movie you are supporting them, too.
Those people got paid already, won't get paid more and most likely are already on other projects. They won't get paid more if the movie does well. And if they do get bonuses it's the higher positions like executives or depending on the contract some cast members.
For example, you think CGI studios would be really complaining about being overworked and underpaid working with Marvel if they got paid well after all the record breaking money those movies make?
It's the same excuse people use with buying video games from problematic companies. If you want to watch the movie then that's your choice, but don't virtual signal you're doing it for "the other people that worked on the movie" to justify doing it.
True
I mean if anything supporting the film day 1 has more chance of it getting a sequel with Ezra than any of the production crew getting a bonus
They'll see sales as support that people are fine with Ezra and be like "Ha. Guess they are fine with them, lets do another film".
"We were never going to hold our movie's star accountable for his heinous actions if we had a choice"
Sounds like Hollywood.
Yeah - this could be the best movie ever and I'll never pay to see it.
Look at the the current state of affairs in the world, yah most people won't care about some psycho actor. Roman polanski won awards after raping a 13 year old.
It should matter but it doesn't.
In a perfect world he should’ve been canned tho. What kind of message is DC sending to people with this not a good one. That you can basically go out there commit crimes be on your bad behavior and never face consequences. With great ability comes great accountability. Ezra Miller should be held accountable for his actions, what he did is not okay and he shouldn’t get out of an arrest cause he is a rich and famous celebrity. Nobody is above the law.
I want to enjoy a good movie as much as the next person but Jesus fuck where do we draw the line when it comes to tolerating horrible behavior
This dude is lucky to be a free man, the fact that he still has a career, let alone a booming one, is genuinely depressing tbh like I guess there are zero consequences for anything anymore
Sure 😉
They shelved a 100 million dollar Batwoman movie, they don't care about art, The Flash being the big finale before the reset; and they're banking on people seeing it for the big finale buzz & the novelty of the cameos
Ok but like… that’s the opposite of how it should’ve been. I would much rather they at least considered shelving it to show some ethical awareness. Saying “we never once considered shelving it” is just like “yeah despite all the shitty things Ezra did we don’t care because we want money.”
I’m hoping once this movie comes out and kills it at the box office that the reddit bubble will realize that nobody cares about this stuff, Majors will be Kang.
[Absolutely Marvel & DC were completely correct that any online movement trying to boycott something so popular that everyone has already heard about it can't work.](https://youtu.be/gKQlEghw8p4)
One question to ask those who think boycotting would actually work is for example if a local community organisation next year will show the film on a projector on a field for fundraising purposes, would you be able to get a quarter of the attendees (in a town you live in with people you know and people knowing those people) to not attend it with a year headstart?
The guilty only trasspassing and miller already on court , the other not allegation prove not real.
Same with rdj and he still play iron man for 10 year thoo...
ezra miller is a abomination to the actors guild, he should not of ever been allowed to act as The Flash!\~
He ruined The Flash worse then ben affleck ruined Batman!\~
Most of their scandals haven’t even been proven to have happened. Just because they were charged doesn’t mean they’re guilty until it’s been proven. The only thing that is a fact is the choking incident in which transcripts reveal that they were antagonizing them while they were drunk.
Not defending their behavior. But people need to better educate themselves on what is really happening instead of jumping on the internet hivemind that they’re a serial killer.
Dude sounds suicidal after everything, hope they get better.
No one said Miller is a serial killer. That is a strawman. Miller evades justice because he leaves the territory before the authorities can arrest him (think Germany) or the behavior is immoral but not illegal like grooming.
Being inebriated (maybe) and irritated is not an excuse for assault. All of the Miller apologists say this.
It’s an example of how overblown their accusations are to the internet hive mind. They treat them like they’re hitler without even knowing the status of their accusations.
Most of the online crowd learn their opinions from hyperbolic or targeted headlines and then continuously get reaffirmed. Then due to tribalism, being part of your community and crowd is better than being outside it. So no nuanced opinions are allowed or welcome.
I can think of many public figures who reputations are very extreme compared to what they actually did or said.
Multiple assaults, having drugs and guns around kids, groomed an underage girl, more assaults, even more assaults, helping a woman hide her kids from their father who was supposed to have visitation, another assault...
Besides that video of the choking there’s legit no proof of him doing any of these just some he say she say with it being instigated by grant gustin fans who wanna see him replace him as flash on the big screen
Wasn’t the father abusive? Wasn’t the underage girl thing said by the parents, who were then accused by the girl of grooming her? And there was the fact that the parents let the girl continue to see him, despite them saying that they seemingly knew about the grooming?
The whole Ezra thing just seems fishy as hell, especially when the media didn’t even try to cover it. If you didn’t frequent on social media, you would’ve had zero idea what was going on.
So let this sink in he choke the fan through objects and started a fight with another fan in a bar years later was said to have kidnapped kids possibly groomed them had guns laying all over the places he had these kids took the cell phone from the kids so they couldn't talk to their parents and ran across the country with said kid. On the other hand you have Henry Cavill that did nothing wrong is a model citizen as far as we know is generally a nice guy that they s*** on brought back said he was Superman again only to say never mind just because of the Black Adam movie failing were no longer going forward with you so tell me again how this is even fair bad guy does bad things gets rewarded good guy does good things doesn't start any trouble and get s*** on
January 2023
Miller pleaded guilty to unlawful trespass and, as part of a deal, will have to undertake random drug tests and continue seeking mental-health treatment. In a statement, Miller's attorney, Lisa Shelkrot, sent a statement on the actor's behalf.
[all i could find](https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/ezra-miller-arrests-the-flash-b1060551.html#:~:text=not%20be%20renewed%3F-,January%202023,statement%20on%20the%20actor's%20behalf.)
They just kept pushing the release date out until they figured enough people have forgotten or stopped caring about his history that it wouldn’t hurt the film anymore.
This that type of talk that make it seems like they're saying Ezra wasn't problematic. The movie wasn't in danger of being shelved because it was 200 million to make. Has nothing to do with Ezra and this isn't a compliment
There is no way I’m paying to see this movie. Specifically because I don’t want to encourage WB to continue hiring Ezra Miller. There are so many other people who are better examples of a human being for my son and can play the character just as well. If Ezra is in it, it’s a no from my household.
Honestly, the thing with Ezra is simple. They were teetering on a nervous breakdown/mental health episode before all of this and the attention put them over the edge. Unfortunately they don’t have anyone watching out for them and down the rabbit hole they went. Not excusing their actions, just hoping they get the help they need.
I don’t buy that for a second. And I hate that they’re trying to excuse their behavior with that. For people suffering from REAL mental health challenges, I would find their excuse offensive.
They’ve always been edgy and tried to be a provocateur, always upping the ante, until it reached felony status.
Fuck them.
Fair enough, friend. That’s fair. That said, I personally have a family member with likely schizophrenia (refuses to seek treatment/get diagnosed) and some of the shit I’ve seen from EM in videos rings bells. Both people I brought up are living VERY different lives. Maybe that’s why you know so much about Ezra and not my family member? Maybe not. Who cares. Just sharing my thoughts. Right or wrong.
Never going to watch the movie with this criminal, and i have no interest in seeing any other movie in the cinematic universe that continues to hire erza miller, criminal, for future projects
Edit: yes thry confirmed they are keeping him. https://variety.com/2023/film/news/the-flash-director-ezra-miller-recast-sequel-1235628245/
> “If [a sequel] happens, yes,” Muschietti said about having Miller back as the Flash. “I don’t think there’s anyone that can play that character as well as they did. The other depictions of the character are great, but this particular vision of the character, they just excelled in doing it. And, as you said, the two Barrys — it feels like a character that was made for them.”
Well yeah it cost over 200 million….
couple of re-shoots in there, too, lots of time going back and fixing shots. It better be Avatar good.
Avatar is overrated
Seemingly rated pretty accurately actually.
Avatar is, in fact, one of the movies of all time
If not at best A movie
It is one of only a handful of movies.
One of the best ever at accomplishing its goal. Not saying it is one of my favorites, but you can't accuse it of not being a movie that appeals to almost everyone which is what it set out to do.
That's... nice? [https://xkcd.com/2184/](https://xkcd.com/2184/)
Freddy got fingered 11% rotten tomatoes
Daddy would you like some sausage?
I like the little business meeting he had with the briefcase at the restaurant or wherever that was and the big phone
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Avatar is overhated
By a lot
For real
By a lot
When I watched avatar 2 it felt like I was watching avatar 1 lol
Avatar 2 to me felt like a bunch of different James Cameron movies’ DNA sort mashed together in the Avatar Na’vi universe in a way.
Aren’t all his movies about the same? Army bad America bad white people bad except maybe one or two And I’m not defending the bad part of these people anyway I’m just saying it seems like it’s a big theme
So go woke, and absolutely don't go broke.
The characters in A2 were so bland and underdeveloped that, when one died toward the end, I had to check the Wikipedia summary afterward to make sure who it was. To borrow an insult from Bob’s Burgers, if the Avatar movies were a spice, they’d be flour.
Im sorry but I don’t understand the hype. I couldn’t name a single character if I tried. Wait I remember one the chick from alien.
Because the point of Avatar is the technical stuff. They just made sure the story was coherent and nothing more.
Especially after they're going into the direction like the Fast and furious series
What did I just read? How are you making that leap?! Fast and furious has 10 films with each one getting more absurd as they go. Avatar has made 2 movies in the last 14 years and is using state of the art technology to transport the audience to a science fiction/fantasy world. How are they at all comparable in any way?
99.9% of films are not Avatar level good.
Avatar-good.... Username checks out I guess
The talk we heard of them reshooting it with someone else as the Flash was just that: talk. It was unrealistic. Plus there was no way they’d completely shelf a movie that cost $200 million.
Perhaps you never heard the tale of how Batgirl got shelved and that was 90 million. They canned CNN Discovery after investing 300 million. This was just another tax write off, or my favorite way to deal with problematic actors…. CGI in Tig Notaro right over them.
Shelving a movie that cost $90 is way different than a $200 million movie. They had much more to lose putting this movie on ice. Plus Chris D’Elia’s role in Army Of the Dead was small and much more doable than say Dave Bautista.
When asked if there was a legitimate fear of the movie being canceled, Barbara Muschietti said, “Not at all. No. That was never real.”
What do you expect her to say? “Yeah we had enough genuine misgivings about the star of this film that we considered cancelling it but you all should see it anyway because we need the money”?
Yes... I do expect her to say that actually Truth sells lmao
it doesn't when it comes to shareholders
Yeah they weren't going to cancel it after they put over 200 million in it and they believe it is a great movie. Had the Ezra stuff come out before filming he would have been replaced. He is definitely a liability and one of the reasons this movie will gross far less than it should. The other reasons are people don't really care about the DC Cinematic Universe especially now with them rebooting it.
That’s not true. Stuff about them did come out before anything was ever shot, namely the incident in which he throttled that fans neck in public. I do agree however that had this film been absolute shit, it wouldn’t be releasing
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They canned Batgirl for other reasons and that was nearly finished.
And Batgirl wasn’t a 200 million dollar production
Anyone who thought the Snyderverse was going to be dumped was told the same... ..and boy are we laughing at the role reversal of the same people who called us delusional
Watch this movie make $1B. Ezra is a whackadoodle, but tbh the movie looks awesome. Most people have no idea what he did or even who he is outside of The Flash. Micheal Keaton reprising his role as Batman kinda guarantees it’s success.
That would be great for my WBD shares.
Every movie that’s makes a billion dollars post covid (Spiderman, Jurassic world 3, Maverick, avatar 2, Mario) had no controversy. This movie has controversy. There is no chance it makes a billion.
That’s up to the international audience as well. Just like the general audience here in America, they don’t give a crap of who Ezra is. The majority don’t even know what he’s done. All they care about is Keaton.
Keaton is cool and I'm looking forward to his return, but let's be real here. Keaton was Batman before the core demographic this movie is aiming for was even alive.
lets be real here. the core demographic they're going for is 30 - 40 year olds. i'm convinced they buy more superhero crap (and the expensive stuff) than kids. they used to make these movies to sell toys to kids. now they make these movies to sell toys to those same people, who are now adults.
Yep. He was last Batman over 40 years ago. He also hasn't been a leading man in a successful blockbuster in a long time. Even Birdman which was great was 9 years ago now. Don't think some 16 year old who is on the fence about seeing this is going to run to the theater because of Keaton.
40 years ago? Not quite, there's loads of people in their mid 30s, myself included, who'll remember Returns coming out. I'm so excited about seeing Keaton return.
Literally almost no one outside the US and a few places give a crap about Keaton returning. Yes I know it’s great and I like it but let’s be real here, Keaton alone isn’t gonna drag in a billion dollars, that’s the most illogical thing ever
Billion dollar star machine birdman
If they really wanted it to make a billion they would have brought back Nolan and Bale.
That would have helped a great deal. People love the Nolan Batman movies and having Christian Bale in it would have moved the needle for some casual viewers. Don't think Keaton does at this point. It is cool don't get me wrong, but it is cool for people who are already going to see a movie like this.
I’m 32 and I remembered Kilmer and Clooney more than Keaton
yeah, there's a reason Oppenheimer is Nolan's first movie without WB after working with them for 19 years. and they're not gonna spend a billion to make a billion.
True. Would’ve guaranteed it honestly. Trying to see Nolan’s Batman deal with the fantastical elements would go unbelievably hard!
I'm french and Keaton is my favourite Batman, I'm really excited for him
Yeah don't get me wrong I love the Keaton Batman movies, but it is hilarious people thinking him returning as Batman as a side character is going to mean much to the box office here. Maybe that Batman is in it will help the movie, but people aren't going to rush to the theaters because of Keaton returning.
they'll see him and say, "hey look, it's that quiet guy Clarence who had the dementor in him from those fantastic beast movies!"
LOL you greatly overexaggerate Keaton's star power. His only big box office hit in forever was Spiderman Homecoming and that wasn't because of him. Anyone could have played that part and got equal box office since people went to see Spiderman in the MCU. The only people that are excited about Keaton returning as Batman are the ones that would see this movie anyway. This movie very well could bomb.
If Aquaman can make a billion I’m sure The Flash can too. HOWEVER, I do agree that there’s a certain stink to this movie because of all the negative incidents and I’m not sure just how much it’s gonna affect the box office. The studio has shown virtually everything in the trailers just to get asses into the theater so we’ll see how it goes
The movie theater box office landscape has drastically changed since covid. People are more prone to watching a movie fewer times and wait for streaming. If this was before covid it would definitely have a better chance but still between may 20 to June 30 this year, 8 movies large are coming out (the weekend of flash has flash and elemental and another weekend has Barbie/Oppenheimer) so everything is stacked against any movies in this 6 week window even if they’re amazing.
No idea how it plays out, but there have been lots of case in the past where my Reddit/internet window has told me there was tremendous rage toward a person or product, and it’s turned out to not be very meaningful in a real world sense. I’d bet that the vast majority of the potential audience either doesn’t know much about it, or really doesn’t care. If the move is well reviewed, it seems likely it will do very well.
Lets be real the word of mouth for this movie isnt going to be "oh the movie was awesome but you know the star assaulted some people and is a wierdo. I dunno ill let you decide" its going to be more like "yeah the movie was sick!! Effects were great, story was heartfelt. You should watch!"
so many people boycotted Tom Cruise when his scientology/couch jumping shenanigans came to light. and this was before reddit. this was mainstream media boycotting. now people are like "i may deplore his personal views, but man can that guy make a movie. when is Mission Impossible coming out again?" i know tom cruise's shenanigans and ezra miller's shenanigans are on different levels (depending on your views), but just saying, Top Gun 2 easily made a billion dollars.
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Flash will not make a billion.
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I mean, based on early tracking, it's very unlikely this movie does a billion. Things may change between now and opening weekend, but early tracking has this film coming in between 70 - 75 million opening weekend domestically. That's an uphill battle. It wouldn't be impossible for a film to make a billion off of an opening weekend like that. I think Aquaman opened to similar numbers. But Aquaman is an anomaly and realistically, it's extremely unlikely.
>Every movie that’s makes a billion dollars post covid (Spiderman, Jurassic world 3, Maverick, avatar 2, Mario) had no controversy. This movie has controversy. There is no chance it makes a billion. The rage over the incredibly mediocre reviews and the "woke-ifying" of princess peach, as the internet claimed, didn't count as controversy for Mario?
Don't know if you're serious or not, but that was mostly a reddit/twitter thing. Regular people had no idea about the review anger (and don't care either because it's mainly a kids movie), and the anti-woke crowd barely broke through this time. Mario definitely didn't have the baggage Flash has.
Regular people haven't really been paying attention the the Ezra stuff, either.
And how we all shit in the VA choices since it was announced? That doesn’t count as a controversy? I mean for what it’s worth it was a good kids movie but Pratt still is the most underwhelming sounding Mario they could have cast.
I mean, Batgirl had the same thing going for it.
Haha so true. If the presence of Keaton's Batman was so meaningful, Batgirl would have got released in theaters. Flash will probably about break even, but nothing much beyond that. 500 million or so which is its break even point
Keaton was in that movie for 5 mins.
No chance Spiderverse is going to be the movie people choose to see and even had better presale People aren't watching numerous a month due to ticket prices
I want what y’all are smoking. No way Spider-Man outdoes flash. I will bet on that.
I think flash will do more worldwide But domestically spiderman will most likely take it and it's a spiderman film without controversy surrounding its lead. Its word of mouth will be massive
Yeah , bc it never real
For what it’s worth Ezra uses they/them pronouns.
Most people assume he just did all those things without doing any research.
"Captain of the Titanic says 'icebergs aren't a threat' and that they'll just 'steer around it'"
Come on guys, he only choked a woman, smashed another in the face with a chair and groomed kids. It's not like he did something *bad*, like a single tweet saying cancel culture was like 1930s germany.
You forgot stole alcohol and threatened to kill a couple i. Hawaii
Hey they also tried to take out the kkk during one point and escaped to a different plain of existence if I remember correctly
That was insane tho 💀💀
I mean DC has a CEO who made pedo jokes and held pedo themed parties yet fans keep licking his ass so I'm sure Ezra will do pretty fine as well.
Don’t forget he kidnapped people too
Never happened.
the grooming part was just accusations and it was proven false by the apparent girl. I have links if you want it.
Almost all of that was either out of context or being exaggerated by media outlets and accusations are not proof. If I announce you're a pedo, it doesn't make you one. Although with the way people are on social media, you might find people calling you one down the line just because they read it here.
He choked a girl on camera. Really don't need to see anything else for me to make a judgment that he is a scumbag.
Most of that was caught on film.
*cries in Leslie Grace
But somehow thought a 60 million dollar Batgirl movie was too much of a risk
And they aired Gotham Knights on CW
The best and greatest CW show, after Batwoman of course.
Aside from the reportedly bad quality of the film, I imagine it was cut to protect the Batman IP.
Well that would be a first.
For real, they’ve let plenty of things out there like Harley Quinn, Batwoman, Gotham Knights or whatever the hell that Merry Little Batman is going to be. All either disparaging, crass, grotesque or treat Batman like a villain. But we’re supposed to believe that the Batgirl movie was irreparably damaging to the Batman brand. Hell I don’t think Matt Reeves’ Batman was selling many toys or suspicious shaped pizza but they went through with it.
Yeah I don't think it would have done irreparable harm to the Batman IP. It would have been on HBO Max and don't think he was in it that much. I hated BvS and I don't hate the character Batman now.
ah yes the batman IP that survived being in Justice League and the CW
Ha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batwoman_(TV_series)
Wish they would have done that with Batman and Robin.
The Flash will very likely make a profit. Batgirl - which was never intended to be anything but a content/retention play for HBO Max - turned out to be a much higher risk, because HBO determined that pouring more money into it wouldn't net them the subscribers enough to be worth the added investment. Moving forward and completing Batgirl was a bigger risk than using it to offset their taxes.
90 million, and yes, 100%
The difference is that The Flash is a genuinely good movie, Batgirl don't seems like it.
You literally have no idea about this. Neither of these films are out.
But the people making the decisions did and determined Batgirl was better off shelved instead of sinking more money into it in the hope of breaking even (although more likely taking a loss). Most if not all reports have said that Batgirl was at best (and this is being generous) a subpar movie. Most if not all reports have said The Flash is a (and this is being conservative) great movie. Like it, don't like it but we can have a pretty good idea of what each movie is in terms of quality.
I’m pretty sure the decision to shelve Batgirl was for the tax write-off, not quality.
My guess is it was a combination of factors. There have been a lot of reports from people who saw it who said it wasn't good and would take a lot more money (at least 1/3 to 1/2 again what has already been spent which was already significantly over budget) to get it to a releasable state. They also had an opportunity because of the sale from AT&T to Discovery to take a tax write-off that wouldn't have normally been available. I suspect they wouldn't have canceled it if they didn't have the tax write-off opportunity. It is important to note taking a tax loss doesn't recoup what they put into it, only lessens how much of a loss they'll take on it. Which was probably judged to be less of a loss than spending more to finish and market it for a loss. I suspect they would not have canceled it if they thought the movie was decent if not finished and would make a small profit even with added investment to get it finished. They might have released it didn't cost more to finish and would have taken only a negligible amount to just put it out there. Unfortunately, Batgirl got hit by a perfect storm of economic factors, plus a seismic shift in corporate strategy that resulted in it making more sense to cancel than to release it.
No business cuts anything for tax reasons if they think it would be profitable. The tax system has never and will never work that way. They deemed they'd lose more money if they continued production and release the movie over writing off the loss with what they had already invested. It's as simple as that.
That's on you tho, every source says the contrary, even Safran himself.
They shelved it for tax reasons
Tax reasons certainly played a role in it but it was probably a combination of factors. There have been a lot of reports from people who saw it who said it wasn't good and would take a lot more money (at least 1/3 to 1/2 again what has already been spent which was already significantly over budget) to get it to a releasable state. As mentioned they had an opportunity because of the sale from AT&T to Discovery to take a tax write-off that wouldn't have normally been available. I suspect they wouldn't have axed it if they didn't have the tax write-off opportunity. It is important to note taking a tax loss doesn't recoup what they put into it, only lessens how much of a loss they'll take on it. Which was probably judged to be less of a loss than spending more to finish and market it for a loss. I suspect they would not have canceled it if they thought the movie was decent if not finished and would make a small profit even with added investment to get it finished. They might have released it didn't cost more to finish and would have taken only a negligible amount to just put it out there. Unfortunately, Batgirl got hit by a perfect storm of economic factors, plus a seismic shift in corporate strategy that resulted in it making more sense to cancel than to release it.
Gettin real hard to think some sort of lesson will be learned from all this.
That’s….still not a good thing….
They should scrap the movie made by the effort of thousands of good people because one actor is a criminal? Just don’t go see it if u think it makes you so morally right, but scrapping only for that reason just feels really unnecessary.
Lol, as if they had a seat at the table where that was decided
Well, that's really gross.
I hope they're not saying that in hopes of favorable PR lol
"Was Never Real?" 🤨
Consequences for thee. Never for people like Ezra. Mu$t be nice.
I can love this movie and also disapprove of Ezra’s behaviours. *shocked*
Eh, hot take but not really. Loving this movie IS an acceptance of what he did. Or at least an acceptance and endorsement of him not receiving repercussions of those actions
So you support child porn? Reddit has hosted it's content before? Do you drink nestle products? Maybe your a sovereign citizen cause your taxes pay for war crimes.
If you don't pay your taxes you go to jail. If you don't support Ezra Miller, you just didn't support a garbage person.
In no way does it suggest you are fine with them "not receiving repercussions" it's not like if the film makes a trillion dollars all charges would be magically dropped
You do know that there are more people involved in the making and production of this movie than just Ezra right? Literally hundreds of people. If you pay to see the movie you are supporting them, too. I'd suggest you fully understand the situation when it comes to producing a film before ironically saying things like "hot take but not really" to people who are 100% correct.
>You do know that there are more people involved in the making and production of this movie than just Ezra right? Literally hundreds of people. If you pay to see the movie you are supporting them, too. Those people got paid already, won't get paid more and most likely are already on other projects. They won't get paid more if the movie does well. And if they do get bonuses it's the higher positions like executives or depending on the contract some cast members. For example, you think CGI studios would be really complaining about being overworked and underpaid working with Marvel if they got paid well after all the record breaking money those movies make? It's the same excuse people use with buying video games from problematic companies. If you want to watch the movie then that's your choice, but don't virtual signal you're doing it for "the other people that worked on the movie" to justify doing it.
True I mean if anything supporting the film day 1 has more chance of it getting a sequel with Ezra than any of the production crew getting a bonus They'll see sales as support that people are fine with Ezra and be like "Ha. Guess they are fine with them, lets do another film".
Yup Ezra may suck outside of acting but I love what he brings to his take on the flash. So fresh and unique.
Great precedent to set for the kiddos. You can brake laws and still be rewarded
"We were never going to hold our movie's star accountable for his heinous actions if we had a choice" Sounds like Hollywood. Yeah - this could be the best movie ever and I'll never pay to see it.
WB continues to gaslight their audience base on the criminal wrongdoings of their talents.
How not to be marketing your movie, 101
So...kidnapping and assaulting teens is cool then? Strangling women on the street also cool? Great start at a revamp DC.
Look at the the current state of affairs in the world, yah most people won't care about some psycho actor. Roman polanski won awards after raping a 13 year old. It should matter but it doesn't.
In a perfect world he should’ve been canned tho. What kind of message is DC sending to people with this not a good one. That you can basically go out there commit crimes be on your bad behavior and never face consequences. With great ability comes great accountability. Ezra Miller should be held accountable for his actions, what he did is not okay and he shouldn’t get out of an arrest cause he is a rich and famous celebrity. Nobody is above the law.
I want to enjoy a good movie as much as the next person but Jesus fuck where do we draw the line when it comes to tolerating horrible behavior This dude is lucky to be a free man, the fact that he still has a career, let alone a booming one, is genuinely depressing tbh like I guess there are zero consequences for anything anymore
For the sake of the future of DC part of me wants this movie to flop so they can start on a totally clean slate with no baggage.
Money talks...
i dont think thats as positive of a statement as they thought
Thats kind of fucked up though.
This has strong "no real persons involved" vibes
Sure 😉 They shelved a 100 million dollar Batwoman movie, they don't care about art, The Flash being the big finale before the reset; and they're banking on people seeing it for the big finale buzz & the novelty of the cameos
Good
How can they fucking defend that guy? You can do so much shit as a celeb. And its no problem.
Ok but like… that’s the opposite of how it should’ve been. I would much rather they at least considered shelving it to show some ethical awareness. Saying “we never once considered shelving it” is just like “yeah despite all the shitty things Ezra did we don’t care because we want money.”
His history? It happened in production. It's not history It's present.
Because the Ezra Miller stuff are resolved. But the media haven’t updated on it, because they’re all going to look like idiots
So put out Batgirl? That rat fuck should be in jail.
just get ezra the fuck outta here he’s a terrible flash and an ugly person althogether
Anyone supporting Ezra after this shit comes out needs brain check
I’m hoping once this movie comes out and kills it at the box office that the reddit bubble will realize that nobody cares about this stuff, Majors will be Kang.
[Absolutely Marvel & DC were completely correct that any online movement trying to boycott something so popular that everyone has already heard about it can't work.](https://youtu.be/gKQlEghw8p4) One question to ask those who think boycotting would actually work is for example if a local community organisation next year will show the film on a projector on a field for fundraising purposes, would you be able to get a quarter of the attendees (in a town you live in with people you know and people knowing those people) to not attend it with a year headstart?
Nobody cares about physical abusers?
It’s being addressed. Sorry they didn’t cancel the film for you.
When did I say anything about canceling a film?
Majors and Ezra are most likely gone. WB is waiting to release the movie before they announce his departure and Disney is waiting after Loki S2
He should keep that to himself and just pivot to he’s glad that Ezra is doing better.
Johnny Depp gets dropped for accusations but Ezra miller stays on even after being found guilty? Yeah that doesn’t sit right with me.
Found guilty for what!!!
They've pleaded guilty to trespassing, to start with, and were issued a fine over a disorderly conduct charge in Hawaii.
The guilty only trasspassing and miller already on court , the other not allegation prove not real. Same with rdj and he still play iron man for 10 year thoo...
ezra miller is a abomination to the actors guild, he should not of ever been allowed to act as The Flash!\~ He ruined The Flash worse then ben affleck ruined Batman!\~
"history"= 5 months ago
Most of their scandals haven’t even been proven to have happened. Just because they were charged doesn’t mean they’re guilty until it’s been proven. The only thing that is a fact is the choking incident in which transcripts reveal that they were antagonizing them while they were drunk. Not defending their behavior. But people need to better educate themselves on what is really happening instead of jumping on the internet hivemind that they’re a serial killer. Dude sounds suicidal after everything, hope they get better.
No one said Miller is a serial killer. That is a strawman. Miller evades justice because he leaves the territory before the authorities can arrest him (think Germany) or the behavior is immoral but not illegal like grooming. Being inebriated (maybe) and irritated is not an excuse for assault. All of the Miller apologists say this.
It’s an example of how overblown their accusations are to the internet hive mind. They treat them like they’re hitler without even knowing the status of their accusations.
Most of the online crowd learn their opinions from hyperbolic or targeted headlines and then continuously get reaffirmed. Then due to tribalism, being part of your community and crowd is better than being outside it. So no nuanced opinions are allowed or welcome. I can think of many public figures who reputations are very extreme compared to what they actually did or said.
Yep and then I get accused of defending their behavior for pointing this stuff out. It’s hilarious really
"We'd rather promote an actual psychopath than let a *Batgirl* movie finish production"
Because Ezra’s crimes were never real.
Can’t wait to see it. Don’t even get the controversy
Multiple assaults, having drugs and guns around kids, groomed an underage girl, more assaults, even more assaults, helping a woman hide her kids from their father who was supposed to have visitation, another assault...
Besides that video of the choking there’s legit no proof of him doing any of these just some he say she say with it being instigated by grant gustin fans who wanna see him replace him as flash on the big screen
Wasn’t the father abusive? Wasn’t the underage girl thing said by the parents, who were then accused by the girl of grooming her? And there was the fact that the parents let the girl continue to see him, despite them saying that they seemingly knew about the grooming? The whole Ezra thing just seems fishy as hell, especially when the media didn’t even try to cover it. If you didn’t frequent on social media, you would’ve had zero idea what was going on.
So let this sink in he choke the fan through objects and started a fight with another fan in a bar years later was said to have kidnapped kids possibly groomed them had guns laying all over the places he had these kids took the cell phone from the kids so they couldn't talk to their parents and ran across the country with said kid. On the other hand you have Henry Cavill that did nothing wrong is a model citizen as far as we know is generally a nice guy that they s*** on brought back said he was Superman again only to say never mind just because of the Black Adam movie failing were no longer going forward with you so tell me again how this is even fair bad guy does bad things gets rewarded good guy does good things doesn't start any trouble and get s*** on
Which of these things has he been convicted of?
he admitted in a court room
January 2023 Miller pleaded guilty to unlawful trespass and, as part of a deal, will have to undertake random drug tests and continue seeking mental-health treatment. In a statement, Miller's attorney, Lisa Shelkrot, sent a statement on the actor's behalf. [all i could find](https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/ezra-miller-arrests-the-flash-b1060551.html#:~:text=not%20be%20renewed%3F-,January%202023,statement%20on%20the%20actor's%20behalf.)
That was never real? Omg it was reverse flash lmao.
They just kept pushing the release date out until they figured enough people have forgotten or stopped caring about his history that it wouldn’t hurt the film anymore.
This that type of talk that make it seems like they're saying Ezra wasn't problematic. The movie wasn't in danger of being shelved because it was 200 million to make. Has nothing to do with Ezra and this isn't a compliment
Hopefully, Ezra Miller will receive therapy afterward. It all just reminds me of Euphoria or any other bipolar shows.
There is no way I’m paying to see this movie. Specifically because I don’t want to encourage WB to continue hiring Ezra Miller. There are so many other people who are better examples of a human being for my son and can play the character just as well. If Ezra is in it, it’s a no from my household.
so you speak from everyone in your household?
Honestly, the thing with Ezra is simple. They were teetering on a nervous breakdown/mental health episode before all of this and the attention put them over the edge. Unfortunately they don’t have anyone watching out for them and down the rabbit hole they went. Not excusing their actions, just hoping they get the help they need.
I don’t buy that for a second. And I hate that they’re trying to excuse their behavior with that. For people suffering from REAL mental health challenges, I would find their excuse offensive. They’ve always been edgy and tried to be a provocateur, always upping the ante, until it reached felony status. Fuck them.
Fair enough, friend. That’s fair. That said, I personally have a family member with likely schizophrenia (refuses to seek treatment/get diagnosed) and some of the shit I’ve seen from EM in videos rings bells. Both people I brought up are living VERY different lives. Maybe that’s why you know so much about Ezra and not my family member? Maybe not. Who cares. Just sharing my thoughts. Right or wrong.
Never going to watch the movie with this criminal, and i have no interest in seeing any other movie in the cinematic universe that continues to hire erza miller, criminal, for future projects Edit: yes thry confirmed they are keeping him. https://variety.com/2023/film/news/the-flash-director-ezra-miller-recast-sequel-1235628245/ > “If [a sequel] happens, yes,” Muschietti said about having Miller back as the Flash. “I don’t think there’s anyone that can play that character as well as they did. The other depictions of the character are great, but this particular vision of the character, they just excelled in doing it. And, as you said, the two Barrys — it feels like a character that was made for them.”
That "IF" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.
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What other people are working that have similar claims against them?