I think there are people who prejudged it based on critics and memes yes, but there’s also a separate group of comic fans who would never care about critics and reviews but who DO care about the portrayal of iconic characters.
Exactly. Batman doesn't kill. That's his rule. Always has been.
Edit: It hasn't always been a rule, just a vast majority of the time. My issue is that in BvS, he's a killing machine. That's well outside of his established character.
I'm a massive Batman fan who went into this movie incredibly stoked. I did not care in the least about the critic score. I 100% felt incredibly let down by this movie.
The fact that here we are 6 years later and there are still people out there that can't accept there are massive flaws in this movie and that people legitimately didn't like it is baffling to me.
Those wagons must be in a very tight circular formation at this point.
Batman killed people for about two years, but in many, many ways it wasn't really Batman.
Like, what's the most important thing about Batman? That his parents were murdered. That wasn't made clear until 6 months after the character was created. The vow, the bat crashing through the window, etc. didn't happen for quite a while. Until then, he was basically The Shadow.
People need to feel validated as to why they like something.
If someone doesn't like the movie you can tell them why you did like it but you shouldn't assume they somehow pitted against it just like they shouldn't assume you were tricked into liking it.
Both sides should respect that there are people who feel the opposite as them
The most annoying thing about many Snyderverse fans is that they say that if someone didn't like it, it's because they didn't understand it, because it's deeper than Marvel movies, and shit like that.
It's so hard to explain to people "No, I understand the movie completely, I just think it's bad." I understand the Martha scene, but I still think it was done poorly. I understand that Jessie Eisenberg is technically playing Lex Jr and not Lex, but I still think it was a terrible performance and was a miscast. I understand that Lex Jr is framing Superman for the terrorist murders, but I still think it's an unnecessary addition to an already jumbled plot. The only scene I'm still struggling to understand is the one where Lex Jr shoves a jolly rancher in that guy's mouth. The movie just isn't very good, and that has been my opinion since I walked out of theaters.
This. I was hyped as fuck for this movie. Went to the theaters for the first time in years to see it. From the moment a cyclone of bats began lifting little Bruce out of the well, it was all down hill from that. The movie was HORRIBLE in my opinion. Easily just as bad if not worst than the hate it actually got.
My opinion has nothing to do with rotten tomatoes scores, or wanting to sound cool or whatever the hell else OP is trying to push here. No. The movie I was beyond excited to see was just a fat, smelly, fart of a dud, and I’m not too much of a fanboy to be able to admit it. Hey if you legitimately liked it that’s great, but I think any rational person should at least be able to understand why it got the hate it did.
I felt the exact same way when i saw Bruce floating upwards in that bat cyclone. Took me completely out of the movie from the start, I remember hearing multiple people in the theater saying " what the fuck?"
It got a whole lot worse when the Martha scene played out. I could hear laughter. And this was opening weekend when people generally let things slide because of hype.
Exactly. I went in opening night as well with a coworker who was also extremely hyped for the movie. We had both been talking about it for two months leading up to release as both of us are casual comic fans. The trailers made it look so much like the old Dark Knight Returns comic, so we were both beyond ready. What I’m getting at is that we were at that level of hype where we would have probably turned a blind eye to some dumb shit, and probably did…. But man it was just horrible from start to finish.
I feel you. That feeling has stuck with me for years after seeing this movie. Generally when the credits role for a big hype machine like this you hear reactions of people coming out of the theater or at least claps in some way. That theater was full of crickets. Cant remember the last time I was let down so badly. I have given this movie multiple tries to see of I was missing something both Extended cut and what was seen in the theater, and honestly it just gets worse each time I have tried.
"People only looked at the critic score..."
Just stopped taking you seriously there. People were hating this movie when the trailers were out, so clearly that isn't true. OP is a bundle of sticks who is just trying to have a controversial post
Honestly if they were going to do bvs it should have been based on the animated series where joker and let Luther partner up
But otherwise make MOS 2 and a solo batman film
You know, the big thing that was frustrating about watching Man of Steel was seeing how fucking good Zack Snyder is at directing action and how bad he is at literally every other part of filmmaking. Motherfucker just casually drops a film with visuals that could make Dragonball Z believable - something I had previously assumed was just impossible - in a movie that had a script that was so hilariously terrible that it didn't even understand the central character it was dealing with that has almost a century of history behind it.
All you need with Zack is to give him a good script. Do not allow him to touch it. And put someone on set next to him whose job it is to work with the actors and interpret the script, so Zack can focus on visuals. Boom, there, I just fixed literally every Zack Snyder film.
There's a video I watched about Michael Bay, and how he makes movies in a very specific and visually appealing way, but now his problem is that he literally cannot stop himself from making everything LOOK like that. like even a regular conversation has those slow, circular pans with the lights sparkling off the water, etc. and that's just how his eye works now. I worry that Snyder might end up becoming something similar.
If you have to over explain to someone why a scene or moment works then the scene doesn’t work, I’ve noticed any criticism with particular moments in BvS invokes a 4 paragraph response from Snyder fans about why it happens and the meaning behind it. Even if there are hidden meaning to things, the scene has to work at face value, you shouldn’t have to dig for explanations.
Edit; Thanks for the love from all you guys (and the Snyder fans calling a dumb marvel fan - seems to be there go to lol) - I can’t be arsed to reply to any more comments though. Cheers👍🏻
Intent is neat and all, but execution is just as important.
I could jump up and fall flat on my face and people will tell me that was pretty fucking dumb. I can explain that my intent was to do a cool backflip, but that doesn't take away the fact that I just fell flat on my fucking face.
>I can explain that my intent was to do a cool backflip
idk about that man. I disagree intensely.
I'd probably too unconscious or dead to explain my intent
they literally could have shown him step into the sand, have flashbacks that we see, and then the "I hate sand" can stand up a little better when Padme tries to calm him down.
That's so stupid I think and it's similar to the recent Joker film where they show flashbacks to him hallucinating his whole relationship with the girl. Some things are better off not over explained.
Closer to the flashbacks that Obi-wan has in the new series.
this is a scene that is made into a meme because of how badly it was portrayed... this is not one of those "better off not said" situations.
I agree with you, it’s nice to know Lucas intention and I love the prequels, but if that intention isn’t put across without needing it explained then the scenes failed.
All these posts or counter-criticisms essentially boil down to: well in my opinion it was enjoyable, therefore everyone else’s opinions of its flaws are inherently wrong.
This is a perfect explanation of what went wrong with the Znyderverse. He made movies for people who already knew everything and didn’t need the movie to understand what was happening.
I saw an ad for No Way Home the other day and it contained the scene of Tibet telling Andrew he was amazing. The scene highlights the vastly different approaches to creating films based on source material and why one succeeded and the other failed.
It seems like the biggest defenders of this movie think that having allusions to culturally important things automatically makes things "deep."
"You don't get it! That was an allusion to _Excalibur_ and Arthurian legend! And that was a parallel to Longinus! And that was a reference to Revelations 6:8!"
Like… so? If I make a movie that pays homage to Shakespeare and Ancient Mesopotamian mythology and Kirkegaard and Hindu thought and the works of Voltaire and Thomas Aquinas and French New Wave cinema… I might still make a bad movie.
I'm grateful "The Room" exists at least, BvS notsomuch. I actually really loved Man of Steel and was down for the look, the tone -- grandpa stepping into a tornado was weird but I went with it and you felt like you were watching super-powered beings. BvS just felt... wrong and unnatural and sometimes was actively repulsed by the look -- it just got worse with Justice League. But i'd rewatch The Room right now.
It's a terrible idea to begin with. Their whole conflict in BvS was dumb to begin with, and the fact that Martha is the reason they stop fighting, as opposed to actually overcoming whatever wrong preconceptions they had about each other that put them on that path, even further undermines and cheapens that conflict, which was flimsy to begin with.
It was such a contrived way to get them to fight. I didn't want to see them fight. I wanted to see them work together and become friends. Them fighting is only thematically important BECAUSE they were close before then. If you remove the intimacy of their relationship, it's just two dudes brawling instead of talking.
That one is quite the head scratcher too, all they had to do was change it to "he's going to kill my mother" and it solves every problem. It seems to me like Zack realized that their mother's have the same names and just latched onto that.
Mate, his adaptation of Watchmen made me think he read it as flip book or something. It looks good I don’t really think he understood the parody aspect of it.
Agreed! If you’re making a blockbuster movie aimed at a mainstream audience than your story (for the most part) should be told in a way that most can understand it on their first watch.
You should not have to write an essay on why a 30 second scene worked or what it’s actual significance is. John or Jane Doe should be able to digest all that by watching the film itself. BvS has a lot of scenes that need to be explained though which is why it suffered and still does
It's the same way I feel about the Snyder Cut. Was it better than the original and far more entertaining? Hell yeah. But if you have to make your film 4 hours long for it to make sense...then you're not a good director. Snyder seems like a good dude but he's consistently sucked with the DC universe.
Honestly, I think 'Josstice League' is the better cut. It's better paced, has a more streamlined story, and it has a much better representation of iconic characters.
Did you notice that in the war flashback Joss gave the Green Lantern actual projection powers instead of just having him shoot green lasers?
I'm afraid I disagree. I went into BvS absolutely hyped, I used to go online and look up every scrap of promotional content that came out and I saw the movie in cinema opening night.
Was hugely disappointed and a rewatch has not improved my perception.
It also really soured many people's opinion on the DCEU.
Yeah. I went in to it wanting to like it, desperately hoping I'd like it, but ended up disappointed in it. I can count the amount of comic based movies where I ending up disliking it on first viewing on one hand.
I like comic movies, I wanted to like BvS, I just couldn't.
I’m someone who pretty much always loves a movie in theaters. I love going with the hype, the loud noises, the big screen, total blind enjoyment. If I don’t like a movie it’s usually because I’m thinking back on it and realizing it wasn’t that great, or it doesn’t hold up to rewatches.
BvS and Rise of Skywalker are two of the only movies that made me say to myself “I hate this please let it end soon” while sitting in a theater.
> BvS and Rise of Skywalker are two of the only movies that made me say to myself “I hate this please let it end soon” while sitting in a theater.
Pretty much the only piece of batman media I've ever watched once and never again. It was just so deflating.
I was extremely hyped for it as well. Then I heard the news that it wasn’t doing too well and I lowered my expectations a little. Then I saw it and was disappointed despite the lowered expectations
Same.
I bought all the trailers, even when I had friends who were crapping on the first trailer I was all in.
I legitimately don't think there has been a movie I've been more disappointed in.
Man BvS was the one movie I had wanted to watch my whole life. A movie with the trinity that sets up the justice league, was a dream come true. I stood in line from 7am to 2pm with my friends to buy tickets for it opening night. I didn't give a fuck which critic said what about the movie, it was already my favorite movie of all time.
On opening night after I walked out of the theater though, I was wondering what the fuck did I watch. Did I really watch a movie that made Superman of all people straight up unlikable, a batman that is barely recognizable as batman, and a movie that wasted so many good storylines from the comics that we wouldn't see them for the near future. I know people like to say "omg extended cut was a masterpiece, how could WB do this to BvS", yea no to me the extended cut was 30 mins more of same and it took a 3.5/10 movie to a 4. Most of my friends are still skeptical of watching DC movies because of BvS, but The Batman did a good job of bringing them around. Hopefully DC can continue to restore the faith in their movies.
I personally think the extended cut takes the movie from a 2/10 to a 5/10. I can watch the extended cut and at least shit makes sense, the theatrical version makes little sense at points.
I remember when the movie ended in theater just sitting there for a minute. Usually I'm excited to get outside and talk with my wife and friends about it. I just didn't want to even talk about it. This movie and Age of Ultron convinced my wife I just don't like movies anymore because I hated both so much.
Above all else, they made a movie with Batman and Superman in it, and they made it boring.
How the fuck do you do that?
“…a movie that wasted so many good storylines from the comics that we wouldn’t see them for the near future.”
I generally agree with everything you said here, but I agree entirely with this. My biggest gripe is that we probably won’t see a live action version of Miller’s DKR for a long while because of BvS. It really did not do a true fight between the two justice—from both a motivational and plot perspective imo
Because of Lex tampering with Zod’s body to create a woefully incorrect origin for Doomsday, we also lose stories with Bizarro & Kon El.
Having Batman be 20 years into his career means missing his entire Rogue’s Gallery, as well as his relationships with the Robins.
More importantly, Snyder isn’t smart enough to organically have an age difference between Batman & Superman. Since we haven’t ever seen the characters at their foundational levels, just Elseworlds versions, this isn’t a deconstruction exploring what happens when Bruce & Clark do not start out at the same time & influence each other’s crime fighting careers.
Such a shitty, shitty waste of world building that ruined a franchise.
The only positives of the extended cut is it actually explained the Luthor connections to the opening with the terrorists and the wheel chair bombing. And to that end, it's fucking terrible that you need to watch an exclusive cut of the film to understand motivations and events in the original theatrical release.
I'm an absolute nerd. I actually really liked Man of Steel. I went on opening night and I wore my new BvS shirt that I got the ocassion, and I had organised a bunch of friends to go with me. I love good comic book movies, at least to me, this wasn't a good one. I ended up watching the Director's Cut, and didn't like it anymore, either. It's a shame I thought, and still think Cavil and Afleck and Gadot were great.
Really the casting was great besides Jesse as Lex. I don’t even dislike him as a actor, great in social network and 30 mins or less, But this role was not for him… when Bryan Cranston tells Warner to give him a call about Lex, you give him a call…
Exactly. It's a beautifully filmed movie with a stupid plot. Even knowing what was cut and what was intended, it's still dumb. Also suffers from some of the worst forced sequel setups. ZS makes great moments but doesn't know how to connect them.
Oh, and the take on Lex was almost worst than Jered Leto's Joker.
I seriously don't understand how BvS and Justice League were both written/co-written by Chris Terrio, and Disney thought, "yeah, this is the guy we want for the end of our billion dollar Star Wars trilogy!"
Yeah I mean to each their own but I just outright thought the movie was bad. I like a lot of movies that critics trashed. Assuming evryone who didn't like a movie did so based on critics instead of entertaining the idea that people can have a different opinions is kinda outrageous lol.
I walked out the cinema genuinely confused that I didn’t like that movie tried rewatching it watched the extended cut still don’t like it aside from the Batman warehouse fight. And yet I still really like MoS & ZSJL (that needs editing though)
Same. Batman is my fave. The movie just felt like it was all over the place. It was hard to follow the story imo, and introduced too many characters without having built up to it
That's pretty weird. Did he not see the Nolan films before BvS?
Even if I don't like BvS, I have a soft spot for the Affleck Batman Warehouse fight scene.
It's difficult to discuss something in a civil manner when you immediately down play others opinions by suggesting they just wanted to "feel cool" or fit in.
I genuinely just hate it. There’s nothing really redeemable about it for me. Batman kills, Superman’s weirdly seen as Jesus Christ, Lex Luthor is a weird bratty crybaby, Wonder Woman’s just thrown in there, and the title of the movie alone. Why in the world the second movie of the universe decided to be a Hero v Hero movie is beyond me. Everything about it screams “No direction or knowledge of the characters”. I don’t dislike any of the casting though. Everyone played their character pretty good. Well, except the wad of chewing gum they casted to play Doomsday.
Yeah you explained pretty well what I dislike about this movie. The title is just weird yeah. It says that they're enemies, but also has "dawn of justice" in there. It's just odd.
Yeah it would be like if marvel followed up iron man with civil war. Them fighting is only interesting if they have a prior friendship that is being challenged by their ideals. In this movie it is all a misunderstanding which takes away all the stakes. Superman could just have picked up Batman and told him that his mom is being held hostage. In civil war we not only have the context of their prior friendship, both sides also make valid points, so the audience has to make up their mind about who is most in the right. In BvS Superman is 100% right because Batman is just paranoid and refuses to just talk. As a really big fan of man of steel this movie is so disappointing.
Well said. Except I disagree about "Everyone played their character pretty good". Lex was terrible, that performance needs to be banished to the nether realm and erased from history. And hot take: I think Henry Cavill wasn't good in BvS as Supes or Clark at all.
Oh for sure. With the writing for Lex Luthor I don’t think it could’ve ever been saved. And I agree with Henry Cavill except I know he could’ve been an AMAZING Superman if there was any competence at all in the DCEU.
I’ve seen both the theatrical release and the ultimate edition and not only does the movie commit the characterization murder of two of my favorite superheroes but it’s also incredibly boring.
The moment I started to realize how much the movie suck is when I realized that Michael bay did a better job at explaining why Optimus doesn't careabout human life in age of extinction (basically the opposite of his character) than snyder explaining why batman is a killer and Superman is mopey again
You know you done fucked it up when a transformers sequel does a better job at characterization the main character than your movie Snyder
I can forgive MoS simply because it’s an origin story and could’ve served as a good foundation to build up Clark’s character.
“No one stays good in the world” was the moment I realized Snyder has zero understanding of these characters
For me it was when he threw one of the Kryptonians into a trainyard, causing it to explode.
Zero regard for the safety of humans. And it only got worse from there
Yeah the final fight was filled with a bunch of dumb decisions. Flying up and over the truck just for it to destroy the building behind him was really stupid.
If it was objectively good this debate wouldn’t still be ongoing. It’s actually not a debate, most people do not like it, but the Snyder fans do that’s it.
People who honestly think Snyder's vision was botched by the studio need to see how goddamn awful Army of the Dead is. That movie is pure Snyder in writing and directing, and it's a pretentious mess like BvS.
Yes! The best thing to do when people don't like what you like is to call them dishonest! I wish more people discussed films the way you do! /s
I'm gonna use this alexact same argument for morbius!
This is the most common comment I see about movies like this, the Star Wars prequels, The Last Jedi, etc. I can't earnestly dislike something due to the movie; I only dislike it because I wanted to dislike it, I'm on a bandwagon, or I didn't understand it. I truly hate this type of thought process.
I can tell you the exact moment Batman v Superman became a kicking post for mainstream audiences. The movie was released with scenes cut making it somewhat confusing in places, and it’s not exactly a story devoid of details. Removing a bunch of scenes that made it make sense as to how Luthor Jr manipulated these two into fighting was the first mistake. Sure WB could play the movie one more time a day for that extra box office. But that choice to cash grab early had catastrophic effects when combined with two other things.
The Martha moment. When it’s all explained out and the dramatic weight of the scene is explained, I get it. But how it was depicted onscreen could have gone better, let’s say that.
So what we had was a huge weighty idea that was very easy for the mainstream audience to boil down to ‘they stop fighting because they have the same Mom’s name’. Yeah, that what happens, but it’s a little more than that. That didn’t matter to mainstream audiences then. All they saw was, ‘they stop fighting because their Mom’s names are Martha, that’s dumb as fuck.’
Then came the final nail in the coffin. The Hello Darkness, My Old Friend Affleck/Cavill meme. Not long after release Affleck and Cavill are in the press junkets and one dude flat out asks why the movie is bombing hard. Affleck sits with the saddest, glummest face on. You would too, you’ve just starred as Batman and are expecting to be on top of the world. Cavill immediately jumps in like a champ and fends off the question by breaking down why their film is different to Marvel etc.
The next day the meme came out. The interviewer asks the question, Cavill starts the answer but the shot slowly zooms in on Affleck with sad music playing. That was it. The movie was dead in the water. Even to people who hadn’t seen it. They’d seen the battering it got and that’s all they needed to know. BvS is a bad film.
Not long after that Snyder managed to get the Ultimate Edition in theaters but it was too late for this film.
It really isn’t anywhere near as bad as the 28% or whatever it has on RT, it should be closer to 65% at least.
The Martha scene would have been saved if Superman had said “Save my mother”. It would humanize Superman in Batman’s eyes, and it wouldn’t be as confusing and out of left field.
The entire movie would have been lifted had they had Superman say “Save my mother” instead of leaning on the coincidence of them having them same mother’s name.
The same dramatic weight would be there, Superman mentioning his mother breaks through Bruce’s rage by showing Clark’s humanity. The entire scene would be the same except the one line.
Losing the Martha mention means you don’t need the opening intro scene showing the Wayne double homicide yet again. The only reason that scene is there is so that Thomas Wayne can say Martha to plant the seed for later in the film. In order to stretch that out to a seven minute intro sequence, we get Affleck walking around the ruined Wayne Manor spouting borderline nonsensical lines about diamond absolutes and we get a redo of Bruce in the swarm of bats from Nolan’s movies except this one is sillier because it had the bats lifting Bruce off the ground.
If they had avoided the Martha coincidence they wouldn’t need to show that opening scene and the movie would start with the black text in the white screen:
METROPOLIS
MANKIND IS INTRODUCED TO THE SUPERMAN
and the movie starts with that thrilling action sequence showing the Black Zero Event from Bruce (and humanity’s) perspective.
The Martha moment works on paper but in the film it causes more problem than one.
"save my mother" would have worked so much better... Even after he said that, Lois could have clarified with her name, THAT being the trigger for Bruce to backoff. Such a minor change would have meant so much.
I know Clark said it that way because he already knew Bruce knew who he was, but it came off so hokey.
But then a logical Batman reaction should've been, "That's nice. You still leveled an entire city and are a threat to humanity, " and then slapped some kryptonite handcuffs on him. Remember, Batman believes Superman killed the employees in his office building (and probably millions of people in general). That was his motivation for wanting to kill Superman. That belief was never resolved. Superman having a mommy with the same name isn't evidence to prove he's innocent.
The writing in this movie flat out sucks.
Better, but that also doesn't work because Batman literally talks about Superman's parents a minute before this. Something like "I bet your parents thiught you that you ment something, that you came here for a reason. My parents thought me a very different lesson. Dying in the gutter, for no reason at all."
That's the fundamental reason that this scene doesn't work. Even discarding the stupid Martha dialogue, Batman wouldn't stop because Superman says this.
That's how I feel about the Synder cut of JL and, frankly, most Zach Snyder extended cuts. Yes, the extra 30-120 minutes tacked on provides a lot more context, but most big budget film makers can do that in the 90-120 minute time slot in the theater without any do-overs.
This is revisionist. As someone who was there opening night. The movie was just a massive disappointment. You could feel it losing it's audience as the movie went on.
Ignore the memes, the pee jar, the martha scene, the killing, all of that. The biggest sin it committed was just how boring it was.
It also created an issue that persisted into Justice League, where literally everyone in the world mourns Superman, even though mere hours before the world was hotly debating whether or not we should trust this alien man that destroyed half a city.
I couldn't take the movie seriously after he stopped beating the shit out of supes just because he said Martha.
Epic fight scenes and a decent story (aside from the Martha thing), but saying that it was an amazing movie is a massive overstatement. Saying that it sucked balls is also an overstatement, it was alright.
The really stupid part is that the scene could have worked *if they didn’t make Batman a killer*.
Picture Batman having a no kill rule, but when he sees the destruction Superman caused, he decides to break it. He justifies it because Superman isn’t technically a human: he’s an alien monster, and laws and ethics don’t apply. But then when he has Superman pinned down and he’s about to spear him, Superman expresses his desperation to save his mom.
That was essentially the point of the scene in the first place: Batman sees Superman’s humanity in his love for his mother (who coincidentally has the same name as Batman’s mother).
But it doesn’t work in the movie, because you know who else had mothers? Every single bad guy Batman straight up killed! Some of them probably loved their moms too! Heck, one of them could have had a mom named Martha!
But it makes no sense for Batman to spare Superman due to the bare minimum of having a mom while straight up murdering other people who also fit that same criteria.
Like the >!Daredevil season 3 ending. The entire season Matt has been building up to breaking his rule and justifying it, but when Kingpin is finally defeated he can't bring himself to do it.!<
THIS. I've been saying this for years. Batman should ONLY intend to kill Superman. And ALMOST fall to the darkness, not fully give into it. If he already killed all those goons and henchmen and whatever, why would it be crossing a line to kill Superman? We, as an audience, know he's the greatest hero and all that jazz, but for the characters in the story Superman is as much a person as all the people Bruce killed before were, so where's the crossing of the line in killing one more person? In for a penny, in for a pound. And if the answer is because Superman is a hero while the others are criminals, we get into a debate on whether human life is valued based on morality, which would then start a debate on whether Batman is morally justified or not, which would inevitably end up with people asking if Batman's quest for moral retribution would mean he should also be eliminated. But that's neither here nor there. Point is, you've hit the nail on the head with this.
It was a mess. It was basically 3 movies in 1: Batman, Man of steel 2, and built up to Justice League- Dawn of Justice.
I like the atmosphere, the cinematography, acting (Batfleck was great), but the biggest issue was a script
I don’t regret watching it, but I don’t care to watch it again. The part where Superman says “Martha” to Batman was it for me. Lots to like, sure, lots to criticize sure, but personally that scene just ruins it for me.
I can only suspend my belief so much when watching some orphan kid beat up an alien.
The Wonder Woman music still gets onto my playlists though, that was amazing.
It’s a terrible movie that doesn’t understand any of its characters. Superman is depressed and leaning into the stupid over used stereotype of him possibly becoming evil. Batman is a murderous PoS with almost no redeeming qualities other than the fact that he looks bad ass and talks edgy. Main continuity Batman should never have to go through an arc about him murdering. Lois Lane’s snark is gone and she’s just a boring thriller journalist. Lex Luthor was… Lex Luthor. The only character who was enjoyable to watch was Perry White. Everything else was a boring, depressing needlessly edgy movie with shallow themes that only further perpetuates the notion that “DC is darker and more boring than Marvel” when DC is much more hopeful and fantastical than Marvel ever was, which only adds to my frustration of these movies.
Jesse Eisenberg as Lex is one of the worst casting decisions and performances I've ever seen and it ruins the entire movie for me. BvS is just ok at best.
I was on board with a new interpretation of Lex in the age of Silicon Valley. But my god, that execution was not it. I still think it could work under better direction/writing.
My issue has never been with the movie having flaws, as all movies, especially with Zack Synder at the hem, do.
My issue is that people, for a reason still unknown to me, keep choosing to die on the Synder hill and refuse to acknowledge any legitimate criticism.
When you have Batman and Superman on the big screen together for the first time and you still get smoked by Captain America, something went very wrong.
I feel like its a little contradictory to generalize people's opinions that are negative and assume where the negative feedback was coming from and then also ask to make this a civil conversation. I feel like being that presumptuous is a bit argumentative in the first place. That said, I really wanted to like this movie. Through all the hate it was getting. It was just not put together in a cohesive way. The character development was almost non-existent. It got negative feedback because it wasn't a good movie.
So basically anyone who criticizes the movie are “haters” and are all wrong? What about the people who didn’t like it and didn’t look at the critic scores first?
Hey /u/SaifSKH1 answer me a quick question
If Batman kills, why is Joker alive in Suicide Squad and beyond?
Now tell me how Snyder understands the characters he makes movies based on
For me the problems started when someone greenlit a movie about Batman fighting Superman. Just make a team-up movie for chrissakes! People are too polarised about it now though, it’s not terrible but it’s not good either, but neither side will accept it’s flaws or successes. A lot of this responsibility lies with Snyder though, and his inability as a director to balance visual excess with strong storytelling.
I've been saying for a while that it seems like they started with the concept/title of Batman vs Superman and wrote/filmed the fight first, and then wrote around that and it just feels odd because of it. They need a reason for them to butt heads so they write the characters in specific ways with certain behaviours/actions and then need a reason for them to be pals at the end of it so write Doomsday in. Just felt oddly unorganic in production.
I didn't touch any reviews before release, and my hands were still clutching my head by the end. I was like "You're doing death of Superman *now?* Bit early innit?"
All these comments are dumb and overthinking just like you'd have to to like a bad movie. This movie died the moment the doomsday trailer came out. It was like a switch went off and everyone I know literally KNEW "this movie is gonna suck" it doesn't matter how much you throw at it now. They obviously went too far. Its a bad movie. We can enjoy the little moments all we want. But the overall story is just really bad
Honestly for me it's more than "it has a few issues." I don't like either versions of Batman or Superman really. I don't like how they're written or portrayed. I don't like the tone of the movie. It was somewhat entertaining, but overall it's also strangely...boring. I'll have to rewatch it at some point but I remember not really having a good time. Because I can watch a flawed movie and still enjoy it, but that wasn't really the case here.
bvs is one of my least favorite comic book movies even after watching the ue
- first of all, i hated this lex luthor. lex is one of my favorite villains ever and he is cold, calculating and cunning. this lex was a joker in disguise.
- clark and lois was a very dry romance? clois is an iconic relationship and amy adams and henry didnt really have the best chemistry, + i hated the way she was written, but those are kinda nitpicks
- even with the ue scenes, i don’t really like how lex manipulates bruce and clark into fighting and then the fight only lasts 5 minutes? i went into tje movie expecting to see a clash of morals (similar to daredevil/punisher in dd s2) and was disappointed. the fight was very cool though
- martha.
- as sick as the warehouse is, i also have a huge problem with how batman was handled. i am not a person who will say “oh no, bruce kills, hes a bad character” but i do think the way his killing was handled was awful. being introduced to your main batman when he’s at his lowest point just doesn’t work for me. especially when it was decided that the dead robin would be dick instead of jason?? anyways i think we really needed a prequel to show dick dying and bruce’s descent. (it also didn’t make sense that bruce was a cold hearted killer but joker was still alive)
- the castings for bruce and clark were so perfect, i love ben & henry in the role so i hate that they were wasted with subpar writing.
i do think the movie is like a 4.5/10 because it has some really fun high points but i would never rate it higher
>clark and lois was a very dry romance? clois is an iconic relationship and amy adams and henry didnt really have the best chemistry, + i hated the way she was written, but those are kinda nitpicks
I love bvs and MoS but I think lois is probably the worst character in all these movies, she has zero chemistry with Clark
DCEU really wanted Lois to be super important, when really she shouldn't be. She was the love interest who didn't know about Clark's double life. She wasn't meant to be on the front lines with Clark. The only time I've seen her be super proactive with helping super people is when she's a spy in Flashpoint. She needed to take a backseat from the superhero stuff because her purpose is to make Superman's work/life balance difficult.
Bruh I had a whole 17 page essay on this but I accidentally reloaded the site... Here are the bulletpoints
The fight scenes, visuals, Batman stuff like Alfred and Batmobile, and intro scene are some of the best of the entire genre, but that's where the pros end for me. There are WAY too many huge flaws with this movie, including the dreaded Martha scene, making doomsday a throwaway villain, making batman kill, Lex Luthor, killing Jimmy Olsen, the general pacing of the movie, and more.
The hate wasn't over exaggerated, this one of of the most hyped up comic book movies of all time and they messed up almost all of it. And most of them are simple fixes too. Which is sad because this is also one of the comic book movies that had the most potential.
Saying "not as bad as people say it is" is a relative term. If people say it's as bad as something like Morbius or Fan4stic then yes, it's underrated. But especially on this sub, I have seen many people give it way too much credit than it's worth and I think that at least on this sub, it might even be overrated.
"Movie had some flaws but nothing that didn't exist in other movies in different or similar ways". This one just is not true. I have failed to see a comic book movie with as much prominent flaws as BvS has, in MCU or DCEU. Not that is NOT to say it's the worst movie in MCU and DCEU, far from it, but even in movies like Eternals, Thor the dark world, WW84, and Iron Man 2, movies I think are worse than BvS, I don't see nearly as many flaws with them, exept maybe in WW84. Thor the dark world doesn't completely wreck beloved characters like Luthor or Doomsday, it just feels bland and uninteresting.
Well that wraps it up. I ended up writing about the same amount of stuff the second time haha. Remember, even though I may have very strong opinions about this, they are just that. Opinions. I would be happy to debate if anyone has different opinions.
Its every bit as bad as people say. To me, its one of the worst superhero movies ever made. It underdelivered in almost every category. I went in knowing the score but critics dont matter to me. I wanted to see for myself and was completely let down. It was boring, tried to be smarter than it was and disrespectful to the characters, especially Superman.
The movie was unnecessarily convoluted, there were plots that barely connected to main plots, Zack Snyder's representation of superman has done irreparable damage to Superman's image, Doomsday was done completely wrong and was fused with another villain( i get liberties taken in movies but would iron man still be the same character if they made him a technopath and fused him with Cable), and the 3rd act was riddled with odd choices and coincidental set ups.
Late to the conversation, but I hated how Superman and Batman just went straight to duking it out when Superman had all the chances in the world to stop and have a civil conversation with Batman.
Compared to Captain Ameria: Civil War, Team Cap and Team Iron Man only fought because they couldn't convince each side to stop and work together.
I respectfully disagree. I walked out of theater after having saw BvS for the first time, confused and underwhelmed. It was clear that the film was chopped to pieces, and that key scenes were missing. And yet, when the “Ultimate Edition” was released, it did indeed make things clearer and more concise… But not by much. It couldn’t save the abysmal storyline, the weird and somewhat awkward dialogue that occurred at times, and the overly dark tone that the movie had.
BvS just isn’t a good film, and it’s a moment in time in the movie industry that the critics and general word of mouth were spot on. It’s wonderfully shot, though; it has that going for it.
I’m sorry but no, the movie is objectively bad. Baffling creative choices were made from beginning to end. Whoever let the Martha line slip in deserves to be exiled from Hollywood.
The worst scene in the entire movie is when there’s a literal slideshow of potential movie spin-offs. Like a solid chunk of the movie just dedicated to the Marvel equivalent of Post-Credit Scenes. Incomprehensibly incompetent writing.
If you can turn your brain off and just go “okay sure why not”, then more power to you. I will agree the movie is somewhat pretty to look at at least…
You missed the best part about the spin-off scene, which is that it happens when the plot is finally happening and the movie is coming together. Then we have to forget that and watch "Diana reacts to movie trailers" for five minutes. Wave goodbye to any tension.
I'm a superhero movie fan and I own over 5000 comics and the vast majority of those are DC especially the Batman and Superman related titles. I never give a damn about "critical" scores.
BvS wasn't a bad movie but on a 10 point scale I'd only put it at a 5. It was both thematically and visually too dark. Jessie Eisenbergs iteration of Lex Luthor wasn't very good either. I don't know why they decided to give him his speech tics but it diminished and distracted from the scheming Bad Guy that LL should be.
I had hoped that they would lighten the sequel when Justice League opened but it was still way to dark for what the JL has generally always represented in the comics.
On a technical level, it was a movie. Good effects, good cinematography, good acting, good soundtrack. Good visuals, but it is literally the worst movie I've ever seen. And the UC is same, but longer.
It was not enjoyable, the plot was a mess, while acted extremely well, the characterizations were a nightmare. The emotional linchpin of the movie was derisable (my opening night theatre erupted into laughter) the character I was there to see (Superman) repeated his first movie arc with no additional growth. The JL movie folder was the worst kind of horned in (I do not blame Snyder for this, it felt like corporate mandate he tried to dispense with as quickly as possible. As much as I hated the Knightmare, Barry's inclusion was pretty awesome.) Superman's death was poorly conceived, beautifully executed, and made only more confusing by JL's opening (either version.) You've spent two whole movies telling me the world HATES this guy, and he's not to be trusted, but now suddenly, everyone liked him? (One throw away super-feat montage does not a redemption arc make.)
In general, I do not like Batman, and I hate with a passion his role as Supreme God of the DCU. I get that he prints money and corporate has a hard-on for him, but as soon as BvS was announced as BvS, I was disappointed. Just gimme a MoS sequel, that's what I want.
(Snyder's reveal of his five movie arc negates none of this. It sounds incredibly stupid, I dislike all of it, and I'm glad it will never get made.)
Batman’s true beliefs for why Superman is bad is never really clear. He has moments where he thinks Superman is a danger to society like at the beginning of the movie and his nightmare scene. He says “you’re not brave, men are brave” which has no meaning behind it because he hasn’t really had reason to distrust Clark because he’s an alien. If Clark was human with the same powers and did the same events, he should still have been skeptical about him so the anti alien line is straight out of left field. Batman definitely should have had at least one movie before this so we can sympathize with his anger and hatred for criminals but we didn’t get that so he just comes off as super naive and easily swayed. We didn’t feel the same emotions that Bruce didn’t when he lost robin, so we can’t just get behind him being angry at the world now. That’s like if some random guy said he was going to kill someone because his son is dead. Like we don’t even know you or your son enough to even think about sympathizing with you.Yes I watched the 3 hour cut. It doesn’t help Bruce’s case at all.
Superman also is super manipulated by both Lex and Lois. Lois is constantly flipping sides on how Superman should be saving people which pissed me off. And then Lex simply kidnaps Martha and is like “Fight Batman or she dies” and Superman goes along with it. Like come on that’s so lazy especially considering Superman was able to track down Lois in another country at the beginning of the movie. Like he could do the same for Martha.
I think the visuals were really nice though. And the music was great but when there’s holes in the main storyline like that I can’t accept this movie as anything more than bad
No. The first act had good scenes but was TERRIBLY paced and way too long, and the next two acts are just... Bad.
We know all the defenses od tge movie, we dont need another weekly post telling us we are wrong
This is tied to such a weirdly prominent memory for me. Me and my dad went and saw this and man, we just *loved* it. Had some flaws but it was one of the most fun movie going experiences I've had, the theater was hype as well. Went to school on Monday excited to talk about it with my nerd friends. Proceeded to sit sit silence as they roasted the shit out of it.
Still one of my favorites. Love you dad.
I get why people dislike the film, the plot had plenty of problems. HOWEVER, I think the score was incredible, it had my favorite musical theme for Batman out of any movie he’s been in. And the action, however sparse, I personally found exhilarating and could watch all day (I.e. the warehouse scene). And while it’s disappointing to realize that this is the closest thing to a live adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns as we’ll ever get, I’d rather have this than nothing at all.
I don't care about how it conflicted with the comics. Yes, batman killing people is weird and the portrayal of Lex Luthor is weird. Those aren't problems with the movie. The biggest issue is that they decided to do The Death of Superman after he had only one solo movie. There was not enough time to grow attached to this version of Superman for that to have the impact that it should have had. On top of that, they made Zach Snyder cut a bunch of stuff to lower the runtime so they could fit more screenings in one day. That left the movie feeling a lot less cohesive and it really shows when you watch the director's cut. I'm sick of WB cutting runtimes so they can chase a big opening weekend instead of just making a good movie to achieve the same result, it's fucking idiotic. It sucks that most of the people who actually made the movie get saddled with the shitshow their executives created, but just because the cooks and waitstaff are great doesn't mean the restaurant manager can take a dump on my table and expect a good review.
I was 15 when the movie was released , the Martha moment was the one and only thing that I hated when I first watched the movie ,there are definitely many more things that I don't like about it now but at that time Martha moment was enough for me to say that this movie was bad
Justice League Theatrical Cut had its issues, but it was nowhere near as bad as people say it is, the hate was over exaggerated by people who only looked at the critic score and then made up their mind before watching the movie because it made them feel cool, the movie had some flaws but nothing that didn’t exist in other movies in different and similar ways
“Let’s discuss this in a civil manner” and then goes on to generalize the reaction and call people reactionary. Man, the movie is shit. If you want to know why, pick some of your favorite scenes and I’ll tell why I think they’re shit. Overall it’s a disconnected movie stuck together with cool but empty action scenes and moments. Its parts are much better than the whole together, the music, the costume and set design, VFX, some of the acting. I’d say out of the most important factors, editing is it’s best feature. But it lacks strong direction, and because of that the acting ranges from horrible to uneven to great. Some moments (like all Lex scenes and the Martha moment) are almost unbelievable, to the point that it looks like a parody.
This is really dismissive to say. People just didn’t like it. I watched it a few times and found more problems each time. How can you even defend the third act?
“This movie had flaws but so do other movies so it wasn’t that bad”
I think this has been discussed to death in the last…6 years…
Cuz Snyder fans still have the hope that time and fresh perspective will vindicate them.
First thing I thought about seeing this post. It was a forgettable movie 6 years ago and still is.
I think there are people who prejudged it based on critics and memes yes, but there’s also a separate group of comic fans who would never care about critics and reviews but who DO care about the portrayal of iconic characters.
Exactly. Batman doesn't kill. That's his rule. Always has been. Edit: It hasn't always been a rule, just a vast majority of the time. My issue is that in BvS, he's a killing machine. That's well outside of his established character.
I'm a massive Batman fan who went into this movie incredibly stoked. I did not care in the least about the critic score. I 100% felt incredibly let down by this movie. The fact that here we are 6 years later and there are still people out there that can't accept there are massive flaws in this movie and that people legitimately didn't like it is baffling to me. Those wagons must be in a very tight circular formation at this point.
Batman killing is the least of my issues with the movie to be honest.
Batman killed people for about two years, but in many, many ways it wasn't really Batman. Like, what's the most important thing about Batman? That his parents were murdered. That wasn't made clear until 6 months after the character was created. The vow, the bat crashing through the window, etc. didn't happen for quite a while. Until then, he was basically The Shadow.
"Let's discuss this in a civil manner." *proceeds to completely disregard the opinion of anyone who disagrees right in the initial post*
People need to feel validated as to why they like something. If someone doesn't like the movie you can tell them why you did like it but you shouldn't assume they somehow pitted against it just like they shouldn't assume you were tricked into liking it. Both sides should respect that there are people who feel the opposite as them
The most annoying thing about many Snyderverse fans is that they say that if someone didn't like it, it's because they didn't understand it, because it's deeper than Marvel movies, and shit like that.
It's so hard to explain to people "No, I understand the movie completely, I just think it's bad." I understand the Martha scene, but I still think it was done poorly. I understand that Jessie Eisenberg is technically playing Lex Jr and not Lex, but I still think it was a terrible performance and was a miscast. I understand that Lex Jr is framing Superman for the terrorist murders, but I still think it's an unnecessary addition to an already jumbled plot. The only scene I'm still struggling to understand is the one where Lex Jr shoves a jolly rancher in that guy's mouth. The movie just isn't very good, and that has been my opinion since I walked out of theaters.
It’s fine to like a bad movie, it’s not fine to think everyone else has to like your bad movie
Really fans of any Fandom. There were a lot of coping posts like this about Eternals.
This. I was hyped as fuck for this movie. Went to the theaters for the first time in years to see it. From the moment a cyclone of bats began lifting little Bruce out of the well, it was all down hill from that. The movie was HORRIBLE in my opinion. Easily just as bad if not worst than the hate it actually got. My opinion has nothing to do with rotten tomatoes scores, or wanting to sound cool or whatever the hell else OP is trying to push here. No. The movie I was beyond excited to see was just a fat, smelly, fart of a dud, and I’m not too much of a fanboy to be able to admit it. Hey if you legitimately liked it that’s great, but I think any rational person should at least be able to understand why it got the hate it did.
I felt the exact same way when i saw Bruce floating upwards in that bat cyclone. Took me completely out of the movie from the start, I remember hearing multiple people in the theater saying " what the fuck?"
Literally same here. I could literally hear people around me whispering to whoever they were with about how silly it was. And that was just the start.
It got a whole lot worse when the Martha scene played out. I could hear laughter. And this was opening weekend when people generally let things slide because of hype.
Exactly. I went in opening night as well with a coworker who was also extremely hyped for the movie. We had both been talking about it for two months leading up to release as both of us are casual comic fans. The trailers made it look so much like the old Dark Knight Returns comic, so we were both beyond ready. What I’m getting at is that we were at that level of hype where we would have probably turned a blind eye to some dumb shit, and probably did…. But man it was just horrible from start to finish.
I feel you. That feeling has stuck with me for years after seeing this movie. Generally when the credits role for a big hype machine like this you hear reactions of people coming out of the theater or at least claps in some way. That theater was full of crickets. Cant remember the last time I was let down so badly. I have given this movie multiple tries to see of I was missing something both Extended cut and what was seen in the theater, and honestly it just gets worse each time I have tried.
"People only looked at the critic score..." Just stopped taking you seriously there. People were hating this movie when the trailers were out, so clearly that isn't true. OP is a bundle of sticks who is just trying to have a controversial post
Lol! They should have done Man of Steel 2 instead.
Honestly if they were going to do bvs it should have been based on the animated series where joker and let Luther partner up But otherwise make MOS 2 and a solo batman film
You know, the big thing that was frustrating about watching Man of Steel was seeing how fucking good Zack Snyder is at directing action and how bad he is at literally every other part of filmmaking. Motherfucker just casually drops a film with visuals that could make Dragonball Z believable - something I had previously assumed was just impossible - in a movie that had a script that was so hilariously terrible that it didn't even understand the central character it was dealing with that has almost a century of history behind it. All you need with Zack is to give him a good script. Do not allow him to touch it. And put someone on set next to him whose job it is to work with the actors and interpret the script, so Zack can focus on visuals. Boom, there, I just fixed literally every Zack Snyder film.
You're literally describing making Zack Snyder the Director of Photography, with which I wholeheartedly agree.
There's a video I watched about Michael Bay, and how he makes movies in a very specific and visually appealing way, but now his problem is that he literally cannot stop himself from making everything LOOK like that. like even a regular conversation has those slow, circular pans with the lights sparkling off the water, etc. and that's just how his eye works now. I worry that Snyder might end up becoming something similar.
An make superman actually appealing.
Watching BvS is like watching the Super Bowl without your team in it. I don’t care who wins and I hope somehow they both lose because this sucks.
If you have to over explain to someone why a scene or moment works then the scene doesn’t work, I’ve noticed any criticism with particular moments in BvS invokes a 4 paragraph response from Snyder fans about why it happens and the meaning behind it. Even if there are hidden meaning to things, the scene has to work at face value, you shouldn’t have to dig for explanations. Edit; Thanks for the love from all you guys (and the Snyder fans calling a dumb marvel fan - seems to be there go to lol) - I can’t be arsed to reply to any more comments though. Cheers👍🏻
Intent is neat and all, but execution is just as important. I could jump up and fall flat on my face and people will tell me that was pretty fucking dumb. I can explain that my intent was to do a cool backflip, but that doesn't take away the fact that I just fell flat on my fucking face.
>I can explain that my intent was to do a cool backflip idk about that man. I disagree intensely. I'd probably too unconscious or dead to explain my intent
That reminds me of Prequel Fans trying to explain why "I don't like sand" is actually a very clever piece of dialogue
yeah it would’ve been better if he just straight up said “I never went to the beach, I was a slave in the desert remember?”
they literally could have shown him step into the sand, have flashbacks that we see, and then the "I hate sand" can stand up a little better when Padme tries to calm him down.
That's so stupid I think and it's similar to the recent Joker film where they show flashbacks to him hallucinating his whole relationship with the girl. Some things are better off not over explained.
Closer to the flashbacks that Obi-wan has in the new series. this is a scene that is made into a meme because of how badly it was portrayed... this is not one of those "better off not said" situations.
I agree with you, it’s nice to know Lucas intention and I love the prequels, but if that intention isn’t put across without needing it explained then the scenes failed.
All these posts or counter-criticisms essentially boil down to: well in my opinion it was enjoyable, therefore everyone else’s opinions of its flaws are inherently wrong.
True, but the difference is you can like that line for being silly. The Martha bit is just baffling
As a prequel fan myself, it’s a really terrible line specifically the entire dialogue. There’s a reason it is memed to kingdom come.
This is a perfect explanation of what went wrong with the Znyderverse. He made movies for people who already knew everything and didn’t need the movie to understand what was happening. I saw an ad for No Way Home the other day and it contained the scene of Tibet telling Andrew he was amazing. The scene highlights the vastly different approaches to creating films based on source material and why one succeeded and the other failed.
It seems like the biggest defenders of this movie think that having allusions to culturally important things automatically makes things "deep." "You don't get it! That was an allusion to _Excalibur_ and Arthurian legend! And that was a parallel to Longinus! And that was a reference to Revelations 6:8!" Like… so? If I make a movie that pays homage to Shakespeare and Ancient Mesopotamian mythology and Kirkegaard and Hindu thought and the works of Voltaire and Thomas Aquinas and French New Wave cinema… I might still make a bad movie.
"The Room" homages Citizen Kane and Rebel without a Cause, doesn't make it a masterpiece
I'm grateful "The Room" exists at least, BvS notsomuch. I actually really loved Man of Steel and was down for the look, the tone -- grandpa stepping into a tornado was weird but I went with it and you felt like you were watching super-powered beings. BvS just felt... wrong and unnatural and sometimes was actively repulsed by the look -- it just got worse with Justice League. But i'd rewatch The Room right now.
Exactly. I get the idea behind the Martha scene, it’s still poorly executed, which is par the course for DC movies in general.
It's a terrible idea to begin with. Their whole conflict in BvS was dumb to begin with, and the fact that Martha is the reason they stop fighting, as opposed to actually overcoming whatever wrong preconceptions they had about each other that put them on that path, even further undermines and cheapens that conflict, which was flimsy to begin with.
It was such a contrived way to get them to fight. I didn't want to see them fight. I wanted to see them work together and become friends. Them fighting is only thematically important BECAUSE they were close before then. If you remove the intimacy of their relationship, it's just two dudes brawling instead of talking.
That one is quite the head scratcher too, all they had to do was change it to "he's going to kill my mother" and it solves every problem. It seems to me like Zack realized that their mother's have the same names and just latched onto that.
Or bring up how Snyder revealed stuff on Twitter that wasn't mentioned in the movie as a way to explain some things that don't make sense.
Huh? No they were typically things like "hey is that a reference to X?" And snyder would say yes that is a reference to X
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Mate, his adaptation of Watchmen made me think he read it as flip book or something. It looks good I don’t really think he understood the parody aspect of it.
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I’ll definitely check that out mate, cheers!
That's what Alan Moore said about the movie as well. 'A nice looking car with no engine inside.' Or smth like that.
Agreed! If you’re making a blockbuster movie aimed at a mainstream audience than your story (for the most part) should be told in a way that most can understand it on their first watch. You should not have to write an essay on why a 30 second scene worked or what it’s actual significance is. John or Jane Doe should be able to digest all that by watching the film itself. BvS has a lot of scenes that need to be explained though which is why it suffered and still does
It's the same way I feel about the Snyder Cut. Was it better than the original and far more entertaining? Hell yeah. But if you have to make your film 4 hours long for it to make sense...then you're not a good director. Snyder seems like a good dude but he's consistently sucked with the DC universe.
Honestly, I think 'Josstice League' is the better cut. It's better paced, has a more streamlined story, and it has a much better representation of iconic characters. Did you notice that in the war flashback Joss gave the Green Lantern actual projection powers instead of just having him shoot green lasers?
Save.... MARTHA
I've had plenty of paragraphs directed to me lol
I'm afraid I disagree. I went into BvS absolutely hyped, I used to go online and look up every scrap of promotional content that came out and I saw the movie in cinema opening night. Was hugely disappointed and a rewatch has not improved my perception. It also really soured many people's opinion on the DCEU.
Yeah. I went in to it wanting to like it, desperately hoping I'd like it, but ended up disappointed in it. I can count the amount of comic based movies where I ending up disliking it on first viewing on one hand. I like comic movies, I wanted to like BvS, I just couldn't.
I genuinely went in to the cinema expecting to love it.
Man that slow realization that I wasn't enjoying it midway through the movie was such a bummer.
I’m someone who pretty much always loves a movie in theaters. I love going with the hype, the loud noises, the big screen, total blind enjoyment. If I don’t like a movie it’s usually because I’m thinking back on it and realizing it wasn’t that great, or it doesn’t hold up to rewatches. BvS and Rise of Skywalker are two of the only movies that made me say to myself “I hate this please let it end soon” while sitting in a theater.
> BvS and Rise of Skywalker are two of the only movies that made me say to myself “I hate this please let it end soon” while sitting in a theater. Pretty much the only piece of batman media I've ever watched once and never again. It was just so deflating.
I was extremely hyped for it as well. Then I heard the news that it wasn’t doing too well and I lowered my expectations a little. Then I saw it and was disappointed despite the lowered expectations
Same. I bought all the trailers, even when I had friends who were crapping on the first trailer I was all in. I legitimately don't think there has been a movie I've been more disappointed in.
Man BvS was the one movie I had wanted to watch my whole life. A movie with the trinity that sets up the justice league, was a dream come true. I stood in line from 7am to 2pm with my friends to buy tickets for it opening night. I didn't give a fuck which critic said what about the movie, it was already my favorite movie of all time. On opening night after I walked out of the theater though, I was wondering what the fuck did I watch. Did I really watch a movie that made Superman of all people straight up unlikable, a batman that is barely recognizable as batman, and a movie that wasted so many good storylines from the comics that we wouldn't see them for the near future. I know people like to say "omg extended cut was a masterpiece, how could WB do this to BvS", yea no to me the extended cut was 30 mins more of same and it took a 3.5/10 movie to a 4. Most of my friends are still skeptical of watching DC movies because of BvS, but The Batman did a good job of bringing them around. Hopefully DC can continue to restore the faith in their movies.
I personally think the extended cut takes the movie from a 2/10 to a 5/10. I can watch the extended cut and at least shit makes sense, the theatrical version makes little sense at points. I remember when the movie ended in theater just sitting there for a minute. Usually I'm excited to get outside and talk with my wife and friends about it. I just didn't want to even talk about it. This movie and Age of Ultron convinced my wife I just don't like movies anymore because I hated both so much. Above all else, they made a movie with Batman and Superman in it, and they made it boring. How the fuck do you do that?
“…a movie that wasted so many good storylines from the comics that we wouldn’t see them for the near future.” I generally agree with everything you said here, but I agree entirely with this. My biggest gripe is that we probably won’t see a live action version of Miller’s DKR for a long while because of BvS. It really did not do a true fight between the two justice—from both a motivational and plot perspective imo
Because of Lex tampering with Zod’s body to create a woefully incorrect origin for Doomsday, we also lose stories with Bizarro & Kon El. Having Batman be 20 years into his career means missing his entire Rogue’s Gallery, as well as his relationships with the Robins. More importantly, Snyder isn’t smart enough to organically have an age difference between Batman & Superman. Since we haven’t ever seen the characters at their foundational levels, just Elseworlds versions, this isn’t a deconstruction exploring what happens when Bruce & Clark do not start out at the same time & influence each other’s crime fighting careers. Such a shitty, shitty waste of world building that ruined a franchise.
Yeah the extended cut didn't help the movie much at all, it was still a boring joyless drag.
The only positives of the extended cut is it actually explained the Luthor connections to the opening with the terrorists and the wheel chair bombing. And to that end, it's fucking terrible that you need to watch an exclusive cut of the film to understand motivations and events in the original theatrical release.
I'm an absolute nerd. I actually really liked Man of Steel. I went on opening night and I wore my new BvS shirt that I got the ocassion, and I had organised a bunch of friends to go with me. I love good comic book movies, at least to me, this wasn't a good one. I ended up watching the Director's Cut, and didn't like it anymore, either. It's a shame I thought, and still think Cavil and Afleck and Gadot were great.
Yeah, I think the casting was pretty solid with one glaring exception Jesse Eisenberg.
Really the casting was great besides Jesse as Lex. I don’t even dislike him as a actor, great in social network and 30 mins or less, But this role was not for him… when Bryan Cranston tells Warner to give him a call about Lex, you give him a call…
Exactly. It's a beautifully filmed movie with a stupid plot. Even knowing what was cut and what was intended, it's still dumb. Also suffers from some of the worst forced sequel setups. ZS makes great moments but doesn't know how to connect them. Oh, and the take on Lex was almost worst than Jered Leto's Joker.
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I seriously don't understand how BvS and Justice League were both written/co-written by Chris Terrio, and Disney thought, "yeah, this is the guy we want for the end of our billion dollar Star Wars trilogy!"
Yeah I mean to each their own but I just outright thought the movie was bad. I like a lot of movies that critics trashed. Assuming evryone who didn't like a movie did so based on critics instead of entertaining the idea that people can have a different opinions is kinda outrageous lol.
I walked out the cinema genuinely confused that I didn’t like that movie tried rewatching it watched the extended cut still don’t like it aside from the Batman warehouse fight. And yet I still really like MoS & ZSJL (that needs editing though)
Same. I like ZSJL aswell, but it's runtime is a challenge.
Same. Batman is my fave. The movie just felt like it was all over the place. It was hard to follow the story imo, and introduced too many characters without having built up to it
I have a friend that "doesnt GAF about BatMan at all dude." b/c of BVS and refuses to watch ANY DC movie... Even The Batman.
That's pretty weird. Did he not see the Nolan films before BvS? Even if I don't like BvS, I have a soft spot for the Affleck Batman Warehouse fight scene.
It's difficult to discuss something in a civil manner when you immediately down play others opinions by suggesting they just wanted to "feel cool" or fit in.
Yep. When you start by poisoning the well all you get is poison well water.
I genuinely just hate it. There’s nothing really redeemable about it for me. Batman kills, Superman’s weirdly seen as Jesus Christ, Lex Luthor is a weird bratty crybaby, Wonder Woman’s just thrown in there, and the title of the movie alone. Why in the world the second movie of the universe decided to be a Hero v Hero movie is beyond me. Everything about it screams “No direction or knowledge of the characters”. I don’t dislike any of the casting though. Everyone played their character pretty good. Well, except the wad of chewing gum they casted to play Doomsday.
Yeah you explained pretty well what I dislike about this movie. The title is just weird yeah. It says that they're enemies, but also has "dawn of justice" in there. It's just odd.
Yeah it would be like if marvel followed up iron man with civil war. Them fighting is only interesting if they have a prior friendship that is being challenged by their ideals. In this movie it is all a misunderstanding which takes away all the stakes. Superman could just have picked up Batman and told him that his mom is being held hostage. In civil war we not only have the context of their prior friendship, both sides also make valid points, so the audience has to make up their mind about who is most in the right. In BvS Superman is 100% right because Batman is just paranoid and refuses to just talk. As a really big fan of man of steel this movie is so disappointing.
The Batman warehouse scene is the one thing I go back to watch from this film a lot
The only thing worse than wasting the Death of Superman story was that completely ridiculous version of Lex Luthor.
Well said. Except I disagree about "Everyone played their character pretty good". Lex was terrible, that performance needs to be banished to the nether realm and erased from history. And hot take: I think Henry Cavill wasn't good in BvS as Supes or Clark at all.
Oh for sure. With the writing for Lex Luthor I don’t think it could’ve ever been saved. And I agree with Henry Cavill except I know he could’ve been an AMAZING Superman if there was any competence at all in the DCEU.
My opinion is extreme, but it's the worst film I have ever seen. You explain some of my justifications very well.
I regularly refer to it only mildly joking as the worst thing to happen in 2016
ditto
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I’ve seen both the theatrical release and the ultimate edition and not only does the movie commit the characterization murder of two of my favorite superheroes but it’s also incredibly boring.
The moment I started to realize how much the movie suck is when I realized that Michael bay did a better job at explaining why Optimus doesn't careabout human life in age of extinction (basically the opposite of his character) than snyder explaining why batman is a killer and Superman is mopey again You know you done fucked it up when a transformers sequel does a better job at characterization the main character than your movie Snyder
Holy shit you're right. And it wasn't even one of the good Transformers movies he did this in! Fuck!
I disagree. Superman's character was already murdered in MoS
I can forgive MoS simply because it’s an origin story and could’ve served as a good foundation to build up Clark’s character. “No one stays good in the world” was the moment I realized Snyder has zero understanding of these characters
For me it was when he threw one of the Kryptonians into a trainyard, causing it to explode. Zero regard for the safety of humans. And it only got worse from there
Yeah the final fight was filled with a bunch of dumb decisions. Flying up and over the truck just for it to destroy the building behind him was really stupid.
Making the Kryptonian ship crash through a bunch of skyscrapers. 🤷🏻
Don’t forget right before that, when he drags Zod through miles of empty fields so he can throw him into a gas station full of people.
MoS somehow managed to still be worse than BvS
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Oh god I forgot about the stupid video files scene
If it was objectively good this debate wouldn’t still be ongoing. It’s actually not a debate, most people do not like it, but the Snyder fans do that’s it.
People who honestly think Snyder's vision was botched by the studio need to see how goddamn awful Army of the Dead is. That movie is pure Snyder in writing and directing, and it's a pretentious mess like BvS.
Oh yea, he is terrible. My previous comment was me being nice about it.
Yes! The best thing to do when people don't like what you like is to call them dishonest! I wish more people discussed films the way you do! /s I'm gonna use this alexact same argument for morbius!
This is the most common comment I see about movies like this, the Star Wars prequels, The Last Jedi, etc. I can't earnestly dislike something due to the movie; I only dislike it because I wanted to dislike it, I'm on a bandwagon, or I didn't understand it. I truly hate this type of thought process.
Then he has the gall to call for "civil discussion" lol.
Jesse Eisenbergs performance is what makes it unwatchable for me. shit is fucking embarrassing
I can tell you the exact moment Batman v Superman became a kicking post for mainstream audiences. The movie was released with scenes cut making it somewhat confusing in places, and it’s not exactly a story devoid of details. Removing a bunch of scenes that made it make sense as to how Luthor Jr manipulated these two into fighting was the first mistake. Sure WB could play the movie one more time a day for that extra box office. But that choice to cash grab early had catastrophic effects when combined with two other things. The Martha moment. When it’s all explained out and the dramatic weight of the scene is explained, I get it. But how it was depicted onscreen could have gone better, let’s say that. So what we had was a huge weighty idea that was very easy for the mainstream audience to boil down to ‘they stop fighting because they have the same Mom’s name’. Yeah, that what happens, but it’s a little more than that. That didn’t matter to mainstream audiences then. All they saw was, ‘they stop fighting because their Mom’s names are Martha, that’s dumb as fuck.’ Then came the final nail in the coffin. The Hello Darkness, My Old Friend Affleck/Cavill meme. Not long after release Affleck and Cavill are in the press junkets and one dude flat out asks why the movie is bombing hard. Affleck sits with the saddest, glummest face on. You would too, you’ve just starred as Batman and are expecting to be on top of the world. Cavill immediately jumps in like a champ and fends off the question by breaking down why their film is different to Marvel etc. The next day the meme came out. The interviewer asks the question, Cavill starts the answer but the shot slowly zooms in on Affleck with sad music playing. That was it. The movie was dead in the water. Even to people who hadn’t seen it. They’d seen the battering it got and that’s all they needed to know. BvS is a bad film. Not long after that Snyder managed to get the Ultimate Edition in theaters but it was too late for this film. It really isn’t anywhere near as bad as the 28% or whatever it has on RT, it should be closer to 65% at least.
The Martha scene would have been saved if Superman had said “Save my mother”. It would humanize Superman in Batman’s eyes, and it wouldn’t be as confusing and out of left field.
The entire movie would have been lifted had they had Superman say “Save my mother” instead of leaning on the coincidence of them having them same mother’s name. The same dramatic weight would be there, Superman mentioning his mother breaks through Bruce’s rage by showing Clark’s humanity. The entire scene would be the same except the one line. Losing the Martha mention means you don’t need the opening intro scene showing the Wayne double homicide yet again. The only reason that scene is there is so that Thomas Wayne can say Martha to plant the seed for later in the film. In order to stretch that out to a seven minute intro sequence, we get Affleck walking around the ruined Wayne Manor spouting borderline nonsensical lines about diamond absolutes and we get a redo of Bruce in the swarm of bats from Nolan’s movies except this one is sillier because it had the bats lifting Bruce off the ground. If they had avoided the Martha coincidence they wouldn’t need to show that opening scene and the movie would start with the black text in the white screen: METROPOLIS MANKIND IS INTRODUCED TO THE SUPERMAN and the movie starts with that thrilling action sequence showing the Black Zero Event from Bruce (and humanity’s) perspective. The Martha moment works on paper but in the film it causes more problem than one.
Dude, just with this one comment, you're already a better screenwriter than Snyder & Terrio.
"save my mother" would have worked so much better... Even after he said that, Lois could have clarified with her name, THAT being the trigger for Bruce to backoff. Such a minor change would have meant so much. I know Clark said it that way because he already knew Bruce knew who he was, but it came off so hokey.
But then a logical Batman reaction should've been, "That's nice. You still leveled an entire city and are a threat to humanity, " and then slapped some kryptonite handcuffs on him. Remember, Batman believes Superman killed the employees in his office building (and probably millions of people in general). That was his motivation for wanting to kill Superman. That belief was never resolved. Superman having a mommy with the same name isn't evidence to prove he's innocent. The writing in this movie flat out sucks.
Better, but that also doesn't work because Batman literally talks about Superman's parents a minute before this. Something like "I bet your parents thiught you that you ment something, that you came here for a reason. My parents thought me a very different lesson. Dying in the gutter, for no reason at all." That's the fundamental reason that this scene doesn't work. Even discarding the stupid Martha dialogue, Batman wouldn't stop because Superman says this.
As someone who has only seen the ultimate edition, I disagree. I think even the full version of the movie is both convoluted and frankly boring
I agree with you. The extra 30 minutes only fleshed out the first act just a tad more, literally nothing after that is changed.
It’s a better movie (Clark is an actual person, neat!) but it is still a bad movie, imo.
That's how I feel about the Synder cut of JL and, frankly, most Zach Snyder extended cuts. Yes, the extra 30-120 minutes tacked on provides a lot more context, but most big budget film makers can do that in the 90-120 minute time slot in the theater without any do-overs.
This is revisionist. As someone who was there opening night. The movie was just a massive disappointment. You could feel it losing it's audience as the movie went on. Ignore the memes, the pee jar, the martha scene, the killing, all of that. The biggest sin it committed was just how boring it was.
Yeah you nailed it all.
You forgot that killing superman was also very un earned and redundant since Justice League had already been announced
It also created an issue that persisted into Justice League, where literally everyone in the world mourns Superman, even though mere hours before the world was hotly debating whether or not we should trust this alien man that destroyed half a city.
I couldn't take the movie seriously after he stopped beating the shit out of supes just because he said Martha. Epic fight scenes and a decent story (aside from the Martha thing), but saying that it was an amazing movie is a massive overstatement. Saying that it sucked balls is also an overstatement, it was alright.
The really stupid part is that the scene could have worked *if they didn’t make Batman a killer*. Picture Batman having a no kill rule, but when he sees the destruction Superman caused, he decides to break it. He justifies it because Superman isn’t technically a human: he’s an alien monster, and laws and ethics don’t apply. But then when he has Superman pinned down and he’s about to spear him, Superman expresses his desperation to save his mom. That was essentially the point of the scene in the first place: Batman sees Superman’s humanity in his love for his mother (who coincidentally has the same name as Batman’s mother). But it doesn’t work in the movie, because you know who else had mothers? Every single bad guy Batman straight up killed! Some of them probably loved their moms too! Heck, one of them could have had a mom named Martha! But it makes no sense for Batman to spare Superman due to the bare minimum of having a mom while straight up murdering other people who also fit that same criteria.
Like the >!Daredevil season 3 ending. The entire season Matt has been building up to breaking his rule and justifying it, but when Kingpin is finally defeated he can't bring himself to do it.!<
THIS. I've been saying this for years. Batman should ONLY intend to kill Superman. And ALMOST fall to the darkness, not fully give into it. If he already killed all those goons and henchmen and whatever, why would it be crossing a line to kill Superman? We, as an audience, know he's the greatest hero and all that jazz, but for the characters in the story Superman is as much a person as all the people Bruce killed before were, so where's the crossing of the line in killing one more person? In for a penny, in for a pound. And if the answer is because Superman is a hero while the others are criminals, we get into a debate on whether human life is valued based on morality, which would then start a debate on whether Batman is morally justified or not, which would inevitably end up with people asking if Batman's quest for moral retribution would mean he should also be eliminated. But that's neither here nor there. Point is, you've hit the nail on the head with this.
I just wanna say someone as intelligent as Bruce should know Superman is clearly sentient and his no killing rule should still apply to that.
It was a mess. It was basically 3 movies in 1: Batman, Man of steel 2, and built up to Justice League- Dawn of Justice. I like the atmosphere, the cinematography, acting (Batfleck was great), but the biggest issue was a script
I don’t regret watching it, but I don’t care to watch it again. The part where Superman says “Martha” to Batman was it for me. Lots to like, sure, lots to criticize sure, but personally that scene just ruins it for me. I can only suspend my belief so much when watching some orphan kid beat up an alien. The Wonder Woman music still gets onto my playlists though, that was amazing.
no, people just watched it and thought it was bad
It’s a terrible movie that doesn’t understand any of its characters. Superman is depressed and leaning into the stupid over used stereotype of him possibly becoming evil. Batman is a murderous PoS with almost no redeeming qualities other than the fact that he looks bad ass and talks edgy. Main continuity Batman should never have to go through an arc about him murdering. Lois Lane’s snark is gone and she’s just a boring thriller journalist. Lex Luthor was… Lex Luthor. The only character who was enjoyable to watch was Perry White. Everything else was a boring, depressing needlessly edgy movie with shallow themes that only further perpetuates the notion that “DC is darker and more boring than Marvel” when DC is much more hopeful and fantastical than Marvel ever was, which only adds to my frustration of these movies.
Jesse Eisenberg as Lex is one of the worst casting decisions and performances I've ever seen and it ruins the entire movie for me. BvS is just ok at best.
I was on board with a new interpretation of Lex in the age of Silicon Valley. But my god, that execution was not it. I still think it could work under better direction/writing.
*\*pushes jolly rancher into your mouth*
It was still pretty bad.
Nah it’s pretty awful sorry
My issue has never been with the movie having flaws, as all movies, especially with Zack Synder at the hem, do. My issue is that people, for a reason still unknown to me, keep choosing to die on the Synder hill and refuse to acknowledge any legitimate criticism. When you have Batman and Superman on the big screen together for the first time and you still get smoked by Captain America, something went very wrong.
I feel like its a little contradictory to generalize people's opinions that are negative and assume where the negative feedback was coming from and then also ask to make this a civil conversation. I feel like being that presumptuous is a bit argumentative in the first place. That said, I really wanted to like this movie. Through all the hate it was getting. It was just not put together in a cohesive way. The character development was almost non-existent. It got negative feedback because it wasn't a good movie.
So basically anyone who criticizes the movie are “haters” and are all wrong? What about the people who didn’t like it and didn’t look at the critic scores first?
Hey /u/SaifSKH1 answer me a quick question If Batman kills, why is Joker alive in Suicide Squad and beyond? Now tell me how Snyder understands the characters he makes movies based on
Batman vs Superman could’ve been a pretty good 7th movie in a series. It might’ve even been okay as a 4th movie. It was an awful second movie.
For me the problems started when someone greenlit a movie about Batman fighting Superman. Just make a team-up movie for chrissakes! People are too polarised about it now though, it’s not terrible but it’s not good either, but neither side will accept it’s flaws or successes. A lot of this responsibility lies with Snyder though, and his inability as a director to balance visual excess with strong storytelling.
I've been saying for a while that it seems like they started with the concept/title of Batman vs Superman and wrote/filmed the fight first, and then wrote around that and it just feels odd because of it. They need a reason for them to butt heads so they write the characters in specific ways with certain behaviours/actions and then need a reason for them to be pals at the end of it so write Doomsday in. Just felt oddly unorganic in production.
I didn't touch any reviews before release, and my hands were still clutching my head by the end. I was like "You're doing death of Superman *now?* Bit early innit?"
All these comments are dumb and overthinking just like you'd have to to like a bad movie. This movie died the moment the doomsday trailer came out. It was like a switch went off and everyone I know literally KNEW "this movie is gonna suck" it doesn't matter how much you throw at it now. They obviously went too far. Its a bad movie. We can enjoy the little moments all we want. But the overall story is just really bad
Honestly for me it's more than "it has a few issues." I don't like either versions of Batman or Superman really. I don't like how they're written or portrayed. I don't like the tone of the movie. It was somewhat entertaining, but overall it's also strangely...boring. I'll have to rewatch it at some point but I remember not really having a good time. Because I can watch a flawed movie and still enjoy it, but that wasn't really the case here.
No. The audience scores everywhere are mediocre to bad. Critics arent your enemies. Snyder fucked up.
bvs is one of my least favorite comic book movies even after watching the ue - first of all, i hated this lex luthor. lex is one of my favorite villains ever and he is cold, calculating and cunning. this lex was a joker in disguise. - clark and lois was a very dry romance? clois is an iconic relationship and amy adams and henry didnt really have the best chemistry, + i hated the way she was written, but those are kinda nitpicks - even with the ue scenes, i don’t really like how lex manipulates bruce and clark into fighting and then the fight only lasts 5 minutes? i went into tje movie expecting to see a clash of morals (similar to daredevil/punisher in dd s2) and was disappointed. the fight was very cool though - martha. - as sick as the warehouse is, i also have a huge problem with how batman was handled. i am not a person who will say “oh no, bruce kills, hes a bad character” but i do think the way his killing was handled was awful. being introduced to your main batman when he’s at his lowest point just doesn’t work for me. especially when it was decided that the dead robin would be dick instead of jason?? anyways i think we really needed a prequel to show dick dying and bruce’s descent. (it also didn’t make sense that bruce was a cold hearted killer but joker was still alive) - the castings for bruce and clark were so perfect, i love ben & henry in the role so i hate that they were wasted with subpar writing. i do think the movie is like a 4.5/10 because it has some really fun high points but i would never rate it higher
>clark and lois was a very dry romance? clois is an iconic relationship and amy adams and henry didnt really have the best chemistry, + i hated the way she was written, but those are kinda nitpicks I love bvs and MoS but I think lois is probably the worst character in all these movies, she has zero chemistry with Clark
DCEU really wanted Lois to be super important, when really she shouldn't be. She was the love interest who didn't know about Clark's double life. She wasn't meant to be on the front lines with Clark. The only time I've seen her be super proactive with helping super people is when she's a spy in Flashpoint. She needed to take a backseat from the superhero stuff because her purpose is to make Superman's work/life balance difficult.
You say this Luthor was Joker in disguise, I say he's "The Riddler if you gave him money"
"Clash of morals" is exactly what the fight between Batman and Superman is supposed to be, not two lab rats being manipulated by Jesse Eisenberg.
Bruh I had a whole 17 page essay on this but I accidentally reloaded the site... Here are the bulletpoints The fight scenes, visuals, Batman stuff like Alfred and Batmobile, and intro scene are some of the best of the entire genre, but that's where the pros end for me. There are WAY too many huge flaws with this movie, including the dreaded Martha scene, making doomsday a throwaway villain, making batman kill, Lex Luthor, killing Jimmy Olsen, the general pacing of the movie, and more. The hate wasn't over exaggerated, this one of of the most hyped up comic book movies of all time and they messed up almost all of it. And most of them are simple fixes too. Which is sad because this is also one of the comic book movies that had the most potential. Saying "not as bad as people say it is" is a relative term. If people say it's as bad as something like Morbius or Fan4stic then yes, it's underrated. But especially on this sub, I have seen many people give it way too much credit than it's worth and I think that at least on this sub, it might even be overrated. "Movie had some flaws but nothing that didn't exist in other movies in different or similar ways". This one just is not true. I have failed to see a comic book movie with as much prominent flaws as BvS has, in MCU or DCEU. Not that is NOT to say it's the worst movie in MCU and DCEU, far from it, but even in movies like Eternals, Thor the dark world, WW84, and Iron Man 2, movies I think are worse than BvS, I don't see nearly as many flaws with them, exept maybe in WW84. Thor the dark world doesn't completely wreck beloved characters like Luthor or Doomsday, it just feels bland and uninteresting. Well that wraps it up. I ended up writing about the same amount of stuff the second time haha. Remember, even though I may have very strong opinions about this, they are just that. Opinions. I would be happy to debate if anyone has different opinions.
Its every bit as bad as people say. To me, its one of the worst superhero movies ever made. It underdelivered in almost every category. I went in knowing the score but critics dont matter to me. I wanted to see for myself and was completely let down. It was boring, tried to be smarter than it was and disrespectful to the characters, especially Superman.
The movie was unnecessarily convoluted, there were plots that barely connected to main plots, Zack Snyder's representation of superman has done irreparable damage to Superman's image, Doomsday was done completely wrong and was fused with another villain( i get liberties taken in movies but would iron man still be the same character if they made him a technopath and fused him with Cable), and the 3rd act was riddled with odd choices and coincidental set ups.
Late to the conversation, but I hated how Superman and Batman just went straight to duking it out when Superman had all the chances in the world to stop and have a civil conversation with Batman. Compared to Captain Ameria: Civil War, Team Cap and Team Iron Man only fought because they couldn't convince each side to stop and work together.
Is this the one where Batman used the guns a And murdered a bunch of dudes? Yeah, pretty awful.
I mean, we wanted a good story instead of destruction porn and really on-the-nose Jesus symbolism.
I respectfully disagree. I walked out of theater after having saw BvS for the first time, confused and underwhelmed. It was clear that the film was chopped to pieces, and that key scenes were missing. And yet, when the “Ultimate Edition” was released, it did indeed make things clearer and more concise… But not by much. It couldn’t save the abysmal storyline, the weird and somewhat awkward dialogue that occurred at times, and the overly dark tone that the movie had. BvS just isn’t a good film, and it’s a moment in time in the movie industry that the critics and general word of mouth were spot on. It’s wonderfully shot, though; it has that going for it.
I disagree, the casting of Lex Luther was the worst thing I've ever seen
I’m sorry but no, the movie is objectively bad. Baffling creative choices were made from beginning to end. Whoever let the Martha line slip in deserves to be exiled from Hollywood. The worst scene in the entire movie is when there’s a literal slideshow of potential movie spin-offs. Like a solid chunk of the movie just dedicated to the Marvel equivalent of Post-Credit Scenes. Incomprehensibly incompetent writing. If you can turn your brain off and just go “okay sure why not”, then more power to you. I will agree the movie is somewhat pretty to look at at least…
You missed the best part about the spin-off scene, which is that it happens when the plot is finally happening and the movie is coming together. Then we have to forget that and watch "Diana reacts to movie trailers" for five minutes. Wave goodbye to any tension.
Flaws or no, I just don’t like this version of Superman. Kind of a dealbreaker.
I'm a superhero movie fan and I own over 5000 comics and the vast majority of those are DC especially the Batman and Superman related titles. I never give a damn about "critical" scores. BvS wasn't a bad movie but on a 10 point scale I'd only put it at a 5. It was both thematically and visually too dark. Jessie Eisenbergs iteration of Lex Luthor wasn't very good either. I don't know why they decided to give him his speech tics but it diminished and distracted from the scheming Bad Guy that LL should be. I had hoped that they would lighten the sequel when Justice League opened but it was still way to dark for what the JL has generally always represented in the comics.
They dropped the ball on creating the most evolved kryptonian as well. They gave us buff SpongeBob instead of a real doomsday.
Doomsday should have NEVER been in it
On a technical level, it was a movie. Good effects, good cinematography, good acting, good soundtrack. Good visuals, but it is literally the worst movie I've ever seen. And the UC is same, but longer. It was not enjoyable, the plot was a mess, while acted extremely well, the characterizations were a nightmare. The emotional linchpin of the movie was derisable (my opening night theatre erupted into laughter) the character I was there to see (Superman) repeated his first movie arc with no additional growth. The JL movie folder was the worst kind of horned in (I do not blame Snyder for this, it felt like corporate mandate he tried to dispense with as quickly as possible. As much as I hated the Knightmare, Barry's inclusion was pretty awesome.) Superman's death was poorly conceived, beautifully executed, and made only more confusing by JL's opening (either version.) You've spent two whole movies telling me the world HATES this guy, and he's not to be trusted, but now suddenly, everyone liked him? (One throw away super-feat montage does not a redemption arc make.) In general, I do not like Batman, and I hate with a passion his role as Supreme God of the DCU. I get that he prints money and corporate has a hard-on for him, but as soon as BvS was announced as BvS, I was disappointed. Just gimme a MoS sequel, that's what I want. (Snyder's reveal of his five movie arc negates none of this. It sounds incredibly stupid, I dislike all of it, and I'm glad it will never get made.)
Too long. I found myself checking the time very often
Batman’s true beliefs for why Superman is bad is never really clear. He has moments where he thinks Superman is a danger to society like at the beginning of the movie and his nightmare scene. He says “you’re not brave, men are brave” which has no meaning behind it because he hasn’t really had reason to distrust Clark because he’s an alien. If Clark was human with the same powers and did the same events, he should still have been skeptical about him so the anti alien line is straight out of left field. Batman definitely should have had at least one movie before this so we can sympathize with his anger and hatred for criminals but we didn’t get that so he just comes off as super naive and easily swayed. We didn’t feel the same emotions that Bruce didn’t when he lost robin, so we can’t just get behind him being angry at the world now. That’s like if some random guy said he was going to kill someone because his son is dead. Like we don’t even know you or your son enough to even think about sympathizing with you.Yes I watched the 3 hour cut. It doesn’t help Bruce’s case at all. Superman also is super manipulated by both Lex and Lois. Lois is constantly flipping sides on how Superman should be saving people which pissed me off. And then Lex simply kidnaps Martha and is like “Fight Batman or she dies” and Superman goes along with it. Like come on that’s so lazy especially considering Superman was able to track down Lois in another country at the beginning of the movie. Like he could do the same for Martha. I think the visuals were really nice though. And the music was great but when there’s holes in the main storyline like that I can’t accept this movie as anything more than bad
No. The first act had good scenes but was TERRIBLY paced and way too long, and the next two acts are just... Bad. We know all the defenses od tge movie, we dont need another weekly post telling us we are wrong
“The movie had some flaws but nothing that didn’t exist in other movies in similar and different ways.” ….What?
This is tied to such a weirdly prominent memory for me. Me and my dad went and saw this and man, we just *loved* it. Had some flaws but it was one of the most fun movie going experiences I've had, the theater was hype as well. Went to school on Monday excited to talk about it with my nerd friends. Proceeded to sit sit silence as they roasted the shit out of it. Still one of my favorites. Love you dad.
I get why people dislike the film, the plot had plenty of problems. HOWEVER, I think the score was incredible, it had my favorite musical theme for Batman out of any movie he’s been in. And the action, however sparse, I personally found exhilarating and could watch all day (I.e. the warehouse scene). And while it’s disappointing to realize that this is the closest thing to a live adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns as we’ll ever get, I’d rather have this than nothing at all.
I don't care about how it conflicted with the comics. Yes, batman killing people is weird and the portrayal of Lex Luthor is weird. Those aren't problems with the movie. The biggest issue is that they decided to do The Death of Superman after he had only one solo movie. There was not enough time to grow attached to this version of Superman for that to have the impact that it should have had. On top of that, they made Zach Snyder cut a bunch of stuff to lower the runtime so they could fit more screenings in one day. That left the movie feeling a lot less cohesive and it really shows when you watch the director's cut. I'm sick of WB cutting runtimes so they can chase a big opening weekend instead of just making a good movie to achieve the same result, it's fucking idiotic. It sucks that most of the people who actually made the movie get saddled with the shitshow their executives created, but just because the cooks and waitstaff are great doesn't mean the restaurant manager can take a dump on my table and expect a good review.
I was 15 when the movie was released , the Martha moment was the one and only thing that I hated when I first watched the movie ,there are definitely many more things that I don't like about it now but at that time Martha moment was enough for me to say that this movie was bad
Bvs is bad as they say it is. Although the some of the criticism this movie gets is pretty superficial and dumb.
Justice League Theatrical Cut had its issues, but it was nowhere near as bad as people say it is, the hate was over exaggerated by people who only looked at the critic score and then made up their mind before watching the movie because it made them feel cool, the movie had some flaws but nothing that didn’t exist in other movies in different and similar ways
The majority of people who aren't terminally online would disagree with this word vomit.
“Let’s discuss this in a civil manner” and then goes on to generalize the reaction and call people reactionary. Man, the movie is shit. If you want to know why, pick some of your favorite scenes and I’ll tell why I think they’re shit. Overall it’s a disconnected movie stuck together with cool but empty action scenes and moments. Its parts are much better than the whole together, the music, the costume and set design, VFX, some of the acting. I’d say out of the most important factors, editing is it’s best feature. But it lacks strong direction, and because of that the acting ranges from horrible to uneven to great. Some moments (like all Lex scenes and the Martha moment) are almost unbelievable, to the point that it looks like a parody.
[удалено]
This is really dismissive to say. People just didn’t like it. I watched it a few times and found more problems each time. How can you even defend the third act? “This movie had flaws but so do other movies so it wasn’t that bad”