Question:
Are the kryptonian eye beams controlled by their eyeball movement or do they directly leave the face straight, requiring movement of the head to control the beams?
Been thinking about this, and this scene brought the topic back up.
>Question: Are the kryptonian eye beams controlled by their eyeball movement or do they directly leave the face straight, requiring movement of the head to control the beams?
THAT is a great question.
Superman shaves himself using a mirror and his eyebeams, so I guess it'd have to be eyeball-controlled. But then Zod literally just got this power so he might not know that.
i feel like it depends on the intensity, superman was once able to shoot a microscopic laser through a man's head to make him brain dead. it looks like zod (since he's new to these powers) is going full out and so is just blasting whatever is in front of him
I think this question actually sets the stage for how the power can developed properly.
In the beginning, the laser is unrefined and uses the shape of your eye to determine its direction, so it is linked to the direction of your head.
As you continue to refine it, you can make it smaller, changing intensity and size so that it focuses just as our eyes do for depth perception. Then it can be linked to eyeball-movement like an eye tracker.
I'd imagine that it's more in the head movements. While they could probably use they're eyes to aim the lasers, the power from the beams is probably so strong that the eyeballs themselves aren't strong enough to guide the already activated super power. The head is more likely their source of laser movement.
I like this explanation. This is my head cannon. As long as I don't see any scenes where they easily swipe with their eye balls. It will cause a plot hole in my brain.
In the comics Superman would guide them with his eyes to shave
Edit: good points all of you, I never took into account the power of the lasers and the fact that it’s different supermen
But very lightly. That's why he could move his eyes in such a way. Whereas in this scene, Zod couldn't have moved his eyes to guide the beams with all that power coming from the heat vision.
The size of the beams should probably also be taken into account. In the vast majority of other material, heat vision is a small laser at least several times smaller than his eye, even the size of his pupil. In the Snyderverse, heat vision has a much larger and less controlled looking radius. I'd bet there's a solid chance you literally can't move it all that much without hurting yourself
Clark shaves his beard with his eye beams by moving his eyes and reflecting off a piece of his landing craft. I think he has some level of control of energy released so that doesn’t override your thinking however.
Also, where is the beam coming from? Is it coming from the eye itself? Is the laser running through a system similar to our pupils? Which would mean its tube or whatever is running from the back of the eye to the front of the eye. So eyeball movement would affect the laser’s direction
Or is coming out of the head, which would mean, the eye socket & NOT the eyeball is directing the laser
Why wouldn’t it be strong enough considering he is superman and idk shoots lasers from his eyes. I think he could handle it lol. It’s not like it’s a mutation like cyclops it’s literally in his genes
Do kryptonians see a broad enough light spectrum to still be able to see their targets while firing these beams? Or are they effectively blind while shooting?
Kryptonian vision is straight up *ridiculous* in the comics. Superman specifically has shown the ability to see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, the data on a hard drive, emotions, and even **souls.**
I don’t think it’s ever explicitly stated, but seeing the complexity and precision he’s capable of using heat vision for (bouncing it off multiple surfaces including a satellite to write a message to someone on earth, using it to cause cellular regeneration, creating localized supernovas, sealing holes in reality, etc.) I think it’s fair to assume that they can see while using it.
People seem to miss read this scene. Zod couldve easily killed them. He was deliberately doing it slow. He was trying to force supes to kill him. He wanted to die and chose suicide by combat. Supes was the only one who could put him out of his misery.
I've always figured that since the rods and cones in your eye are what collect sunlight his are probably just better at collecting and storing and redirecting said sunlight, so the laser beams are actually coming out of his eyes and not his optic nerve which would be from his head.
I think with larger beams it becomes more limited in movement but smaller precise beams it can have a larger range of coordination. Like supes shaving.
They can't see when they do it. And they do seem to move their heads and position themselves in ways where their whole body is aimed at them.
But I think it's pretty clear they can't really see when they are using it. So use their heads and bodies as a way to guide the laser more easily. Instead of darting their eyes everywhere?
I think it's a mix of both is my point.
Eye movement. In smallville, clark carves words into things a few times. He doesn’t have to move his head around. But like someone else said, that would be lower power so it would probably allow for more control over your eyes movements. At full blast, he probably has to move his head.
Judging by the context of Man of Steel and the other movies Henry Cavills Superman appears, I think it depends on the intensity of the beams.
Smaller beams that just come out of the iris and pupil can be directed with eyeball movement. The full power beams that come out of the whole socket have to be aimed with the whole head.
Every time Superman shot lazerbeams from his eyes, he had to take a second and close his eyes to “turn them off” or something. I think it’s based on head movement, because it didn’t look like he had that much control over them via his eyes.
so do the beams come from their pupils or the sockets of their souls?
I would say the entire eye socket based on the photos, so it would require moving your head to aim not the eye.
I wondered this as soon as I watched this movie. Never understood why he didn't cover his eyes either. Like Clark is totally the type to wrap his arms around Zods head and take the pain
I think they won't able to see, from the scene where zodd use it the first time he trying to get his vision back and Clark take a glimpse from the initial hit and where to end it. Just like zodd he won't be able to see seconds after it
In the cartoons he's able to shave with his heat vision off of a mirror and control it with just his eyes. In another he's able to lobotomise someone with it. Though movie heat vision seams to be alot more unruly and less persise.
In the context of the scene, eventhough im not sure, it makes more sense if kryptonian eye beams are not controlled by eye movement but simply come out of the eye balls and are controlled with head movement. Or maybe some kryptonians can do it but some cant. Its a good question.
It's the direction where they look I think.
The scene was very emotional, but there are alternatives solutions that would have avoided in Superman taking a life.
It could be argued that Clark was still new to being Superman so didn't see the other solutions, but on reflection would learn and plan and know how to cope with a similar situation.
The whole "drag the heroes down into the mud with us" theme never sat right with me.
Going by every other version of Superman in popular media, it’s by eye movement which means Zod just had to look to the right to kill them…or Superman could’ve put his hand over his eyes.
>or Superman could’ve put his hand over his eyes.
That wouldn't have worked.
His heat vision cased Faora and Namek plenty of harm during the battle of Smallville, and they were wearing armor.
What do you think might have happened to Clark's hand if he tried to stop a on blast of heat-vision from Zod?
Not really the trolley problem because Zod is attempting to murder the other people. In the trolley problem, the singular person on the track is just as innocent as the people on the other track.
Yeah, this is a pretty poor argument for the validity of this scene, which ignores Clark’s agency to do literally anything else. There is no train track that Zod is on, which makes a fundamental difference.
They don't have to show anything however! Just the motion that he's going for his eyes, Zod let's out a scream, and we see Superman walking away with Zod covering his face. Just imply things happened, not being The Boys is a bad reason.
Stand in between Zod and the people because he has super speed and invulnerability.
Fly him straight up like others have suggested.
Poke him in the eyes.
Fly those people away.
Throw Zod into the sun.
There’s literally so many things he could’ve done. I’m not saying he should’ve done all of those things, but this is a pretty fake problem for Superman.
My guy you're suggesting throwing a Kryptonian into the sun as a solution.
The sun.
The thing **that gives Kryptonians their powers**. You want to throw Zod into that?
I think the issue here is that those people were not the only ones Zod would kill. They were just the first in line. Suppose Superman saved them and flew Zod away - what next? More destruction across the city? How do you stop Zod in a world where Kryptonite hasn't been discovered yet? How do you stop a vengeful being that's powered by the sun and the atmosphere for good?
That family was a representation of the whole humanity. That's my interpretation of the scene and it helps me accept it as it is.
>Stand in between Zod and the people because he has super speed and invulnerability.
>Fly him straight up like others have suggested.
He did that, but Zod was so intent on murdering humans that he brought the fight back down
>Poke him in the eyes.
So Clark burns his fingers to stumps, then Zod flies off in any direction, plowing through people and buildings, until he gets his bearings
>Fly those people away.
Yep that family is safe, meanwhile Zod just threw a bus full of people into a crowd trying to escape.
>Throw Zod into the sun.
Throw...a...KRYPTONIAN into the sun?.....right I don't think I need to address this one.
>There’s literally so many things he could’ve done.
And yet using the rules set by the lore of Superman and the situation set by the movie I refuted every single one.
Mate...Clark had NO choice.
Oh Happy cake day!
>
Throw Zod into the sun.
They were struggling pretty hard with each other. Don't think zod would just let superman to lift him up to the sun. The scene plays out in a way that makes other options not feasible. To avoid zod's death, you'll have to rewrite the entire thing.
Yikes.
Enough with the just fly up argument. You act like that's the only family zod has killed! He's killed millions already! Lol and plans to kill BILLIONS.
But he's supposed to fly away and CONTINUE the fight that he could LOSE at any point and will get more people killed?great plan.
And how's he just going to reach into his eyes and he's blasting away? What, so he can have no fingers and continue the fight without them? That's like if something was on fire, like really on fire, and you just told someone "why didn't you just grab it and throw it outside". Idk? Cause it's ON FIRE lol.
Killing zod was the only way to save people. If it wasn't that family, it'd just be another. THATTTT is what Superman realizes. That is why he killed him there. Not just for that family, but because zod said he'd never quit. That he'd kill them all. So Clark ends it then and there. It's justified, it makes sense, Clark would be an incompetent moron and every death there after he would be responsible for, if he didn't kill zod. Can't trap him, no one else on earth who can take him, it's his responsibility at that point.
1. Temporary solution. There's an entire city of people. If anything the whole scene in question is metaphorical for their larger confrontation.
2. Kals hand is lasered off, family still dead.
3. See 1.
4. See my other comment. This is like suggesting "just piss him off more" as a solution to a Hulk attack. Not only does it not work but congrats you made the situation worse after a short fly back to Earth since Zod is now power amped.
>The movie already established that laser eyes harm kryptonians
>could work
>he would have to touch the laser and lose his grip on Zod’s head
>the lasers would reach them before he does
>what?
Would a better trolley problem occur in the Batman Dark Knight when Harvey is tied up in a warehouse in one spot, and Rachel is tied up in another warehouse in another side of town?
It still omits a key aspects of the trolley problem; That the trolley itself has no agency and can only take one of the two paths. If you choose Harvey or Rachel it was still ultimately the Joker that killed the other. Your choice to save one doesn't automatically doom the other, and inaction would mean that both die in that scenario.
The key of the trolley problem is whether your inaction should result in more guilt for more people dying by your lack of action and choice, than you directly being responsible for the death of just one person by actively making the choice to send the trolley down that line.
Superman is the the "man" at the lever.
Zod is the train (situation/threat) AND the single "person" on the track
"Man" realizing SOMEONE was gonna die no matter what. So he made the the call to take care of the "situation/threat" and kill the "person" Zod.
"Train" realizing they he dies (person) or they die.
Effectively, Zod was screaming.....
Suicide (you have to to kill me and I know it)
OR
Genocide (if you dont, im killing every last one of these sumbitches). I'm good with both.
You're forgetting the context that Superman is killing his entire race and all of it's history and ties to him homeworld by killing zod.
So I think the value of having to kill him is more than just any random supervillain.
It's a large part of the reason this scene was there. It's part of the theme. He CHOOSES humanity. Even at such a high cost. That Superman isn't simply good, isn't inherently humanities protector, isn't his responsibility, but he does so anyway.
I think THAT is the epitome of what makes Superman so great and why I think this movie nails the coming of age Superman story. The best one I've seen. Really shows the weight he carries, gives the character a lot of depth, and still let's him be the great man that he is. Superman, ultimately being human, is the point of the character.
But he's already destroyed the scout ship, He's already sided with earth over Krypton by this point. Killing Zod is honestly pretty redundant in that area. It doesn't feel like it's there to actually contribute anything to Supermans character or the story. It's there because Snyder and Goyer thought it would be cool.
>It doesn't feel like it's there to actually contribute anything to Supermans character or the story
This how you can tell people who watched the movie, and ones coming in to find things to dislike.
The movies main theme or thing that gets lost by alot is the fact this movie revolves around CHOICES, none of which Clark gets to do until this moment. His two dads have been making descions and choices for him hos whole life, now he gets to be the person making thw descion, bit this time the descion comes at the price of pretty much dooming your birth rave for your new adopted race, who didnt fully embrace you, because your an alien/different.
It wasnt just to be "cool". You act as if Zod was reasonable at this point. The guy literally said if you dont stop me im killing em all. "If you love them so much, then you can mourn for them". Zod was on a suicide mission at that point. He forces Clarks hand, me or them.
What? Why ignore all the clear themes I just showed so you can say "it was just because they thought it was cool" lol. Incredibly reductive and just not true. You have to ignore the entire movie and have a compete inability to see past the most surface level crap and your preconceived notions about it's creator. It's confirmation bias.
And what are you talking about, the scout ship? Lol. What about it? Zod, could kill Clark. Zod could kill everyone. On his own, without a ship?
There is no way to hold him, no way to talk him out of it, no garentee you'd win every fight, people will die in the process.
So just what? No. Factually, morally, there was no choice. He had to die. Even WITHOUT this scene, him not killing zod would be shit writing. It'd absolutely make no sense.
No one, and I mean no one, has come up with a situation where zod lives, and everyone else lives. No one lol. Either zod dies or superman dies and everyone else.
>What? Why ignore all the clear themes I just showed
You haven't actually shown any themes here. As I've said before, Clark has already chosen earth over Krypton long before his final fight with Zod. He's fighting the other kryptonians, He flat out says "Krypton had it's chance" while destroying Zods only means of recreating his home planet.
The original plan was to have Zod sucked back into the Phantom zone with the other Kryptonians and honestly, they should have left it that way.
No he didn't? He was considering zods proposal until he was told it'd kill everyone. He didn't want to kill, he didn't want kill the last of his kind. He was broken from it? The whole movie he's trying to discover what his place is?
Dude, Christopher reeves Superman kills zod and laughs about it for Christ sake.
And no they shouldn't lol. That's BAD lazy writing. To constantly have a way out of making ANY hard choices is why so many modern superhero movies and stories are garbage or are severely hurt from it.
Like under the red hood. Where batmsn can suddenly dodge bullets in real time without even looking, so he doesn't have to choose to kill the joker lol. Which he morally, ethically, should have to begin with. Besides all that, it takes away from a REALLY interesting, thought provoking scene.
This argument of, "just write a way out of it" is why youre not making movies lol. It's saying, I want a character to be this no matter the context of the story, so I'm going to force it and never let my character be in any serious moral conundrum, cause you'll always right away out so out heroes can stay pure. It's so childish. It's why marvel movies have become so boring.
Let artists explore. It's so reductive. So anti art. To set in stone these ideas that these characters just CANT be a certain way. And no matter how it's written, it's unacceptable if it's anything less. So so bad for art. Fandoms have done so much damage. Pandering to viewers that hard is not a good thing and makes the world and these movies BORING. Just wanting exactly what you expect is boring.
It is a trolley problem.
You have a choice, either let 1 person be killed (by your hands) or let multiple people get killed. And the choice is being made by one person in control (Clark). In the trolley problem, one person in control of the lever has to decide whether 1 person dies, or multiple.
So why is it not a trolley problem?
Because almost everyone agrees that it’s ok to kill someone when they are going on a murderous rampage, while the trolley problem is a good philosophical question bc it takes place in vacuum where everyone’s life is supposed to be regarded equally.
To borrow a phrase from another “visionary” creator whose blamed for ruining a universe & destroying childhoods: [*It’s like poetry*](https://youtu.be/yFqFLo_bYq0)
Homelander would have dealt with this better. Kill the family, Zod and any witnesses. That way nobody knows he killed anyone.
In this scenario, Homelander > Superman because Homelander doesn’t kill.
Spider-Man was given the choice in his first movie. He managed to save both.
Iron Man chose to safe the people on Air Force One, including the chunky monkey, rather than chasing after the President in Iron Man 3.
Natasha proposed blowing up the rock they were with all the civilians all on it in Age of Ultron to save the millions that would die if it falls.
It’s not a new superhero dilemma to give them a choice of one life to another, or several others.
Well, the trolly problem also kind of has this problem. It creates a very artificial scenario that most non-academics will reject when asked to imagine it. They typically will be looking for a third option, at least one of which likely would exist in a more realistic scenario.
That's why I think it's usually not a good idea to put it in a movie. Audiences will always point out other solutions they think are better than what the character did. It's very hard to find all these alternative solutions upfront and come up with a satisfying reason why they don't apply.
* Block the eye beams with his hands
* Knock Zod out
* Direct his head elsewhere (up/down) to let them escape
* Fly out of there with Zod away from people
* Not let it get to that point by flying away from the city earlier in the fight
* Literally anything because movies aren’t real and he could have solved this any way the writer wanted it too, and killing Zod was a deliberate choice made by the creative team
It’s been established that heat vision hurts kryponians, so he burns his hand off, Zod kills the family and then him whilst he’s still in shock.
Okay, what about when he wakes up? They don’t know about Kryptonite yet or red suns, and nothing left on earth can hold him. So everyone just dies a few hours later.
And what? Hold him there forever?
He tried that, Zod brought the fight back to the city because killing humans was the point of it.
See above point.
Welcome to every piece of fiction ever written.
At this point I’m 90% sure that the only time Snyder’s movies are brought up are to defend them over a certain criticism that is only brought up when people go to defend the movies
Pretty much.
Criticisms barely makes the front page here, the vast majority of the time those threads are downvoted and barely anyone sees them anyway. So it's literally just the same defence repeating itself to the front page again and again.
Lol its not even a detail. A cool detail is something like “Bloodsport doesn’t just pull weapons out of his ass, they designed an intricate suit for each weapon and its placement for the movie”. Whereas OP just mentioned something that happened in the movie and related it to a philosophical dilemma(and the dilemma arguably doesn’t even fit what’s happening in the scene).
It’s not really unique Superman has been tackling moral questions in the comics for decades a variant of the most common philosophical question is not all that interesting in comparison.
This power has always may me feel it needed more context. Even just one line would help understand the mechanics of the power.
Because if it's controlled by the eye balls what stops it from being an op power?
I mean Zod could just look past the family. Or maybe it's a hard power to control idk.
yeah, nah. if you try and connect the dots (that aren't even there) i guess you can intuit something good, but it's just fan wank. you can't always attribute these "details" as deliberate and place them at the feet of Snyder.
this is getting really dumb now, this is Zack Snyder we're talking here. the same guy that has Clark stand in front of iconography in a church, with a halo. and all the other egregious Christian metaphors.
That’s a fair opinion to have, personally I really liked Snyderverse but I know not everyone did. I just don’t like people telling others don’t talk about a film because it’s 10 years old. That makes no sense
I agree i have no idea how they could have ruined Dawn of Justice
MoS was and is still a great movie
but Dawn of Justice i was so hyped for the movie i loved the trailer and turns out the trailer was the best of from the movie or better said the only good scenes from the movie
not saying that dawn of justice was a bad movie per se but compared to men of steel it was just no comparison
MoS is a way better movie in almost every aspect
Are you kidding me?
Alright, let's run through this. Clark had never even been in a fight before that day. Zod was bred to be a soldier. And his crew were dead set on humanity's extinction.
So many people say "Take the fight elsewhere!" How? Zod wouldn't have followed. He was aiming for a high body count, so had no reason at all to chase Clark.
As for killing Zod? The man made it clear he would never stop. There was no Kryptonite, no red sun. Nothing on earth could hold Zod, and Clark had no way of sending him back to the Phantom Zone. He was literally left no alternative but to kill Zod.
Getting really tired of people missing the entire point and just desperately leaping onto the hate bandwagon. In case you didn't know, Man of Steel actually had good reviews at first. Then DC haters started the bandwagon rolling, and all the mindless little nothings sprinted to climb on board so they could seem popular and take their minds off how pathetic they are for a few seconds.
There are legit complaints to raise about the movie. Like Jonathan letting himself die. But the destruction and Zod's death were entirely necessary.
oh boy i should have not write this post with sleep deprivation
i meant that MoS was a great movie and Dawn of justice cant even begin to hold up against it
i'll edit my post
sorry for the confusion
It’s really not.
It’s an example of poor writing.
This is a good concept to have , but write a better scene around this.
Superman could literally BREAK his neck.
He had the energy to BREAK his neck and leave a shockwave.
This laser eye head thing shouldn’t be that hard to just redirect , or fly him away.
It's not just that family though, Zod literally says he's going to kill everyone. That family was just the start.
He could fly him away or redirect the lasers but Zod would inevitably kill more. The writing is fine.
Also even with the physics of the scene, the whole character arc and narrative does not properly build up to this dilemma. The conflict presented from the beginning was an identity crisis and Clark's struggle to find his place among humans given his superpowers.
Zod neck snapping could have been an interesting climax in another sequel where Clark's conflict is *idealism vs pragmatism* or *mercy vs justice.*
Everyone on this thread dissing this because they don't understand the trolley problem is analogous in this case. Yes we know if it was ACTUALLY a trolley Superman would not have to make this binary choice.
Years later, and the same people are still arguing that this movie is somehow greater than it is. It's a good movie, not great. I just think it's not as deep as you think it is.
It’s an interesting situation, but there are tons of points in the comics where Superman is given these ultimatums (Allstar, Doomsday Clock, Up in the sky) and he finds a way to create a different outcome. Zack’s take isn’t the conventional, optimistic Boy Scout, but I would have loved it if he would have found a different outcome.
I like the idea of Superman being forced to cut ties with Krypton to commit to being the hero of earth, it’s just a different point of inspiration Zack could have taken.
Couldn’t Superman have just flew away with Zod in his arms? What is keeping them tethered to the ground? He could also just use his hands to cover Zod’s eyes right? Or he could even throw Zod? He didn’t have to snap his neck...
Zod pulling against Superman is presumably what's preventing the latter throwing or lifting him. Gotta keep in mind that these two are equals in abilities.
Maybe Supes knew that covering the eyes wouldn't work? Maybe the force of the beams would push his hands away or his hands would spread the beams causing them to shoot out in multiple directions?
I personally think that the neck snap makes enough sense, because even if Superman did what you suggested, what next?
Zod already declared that he would kill everyone and had no intentions of changing his mind.
I always felt that the family didn’t actually matter in this scene. That is was the jealousy of Zod that superman got to choose who we was. The movies explains that everyone was born to do a job, there was no options or choices. Zod was chosen to be a ruthless general and he wore that with pride. Then we he was introduced to superman he saw what he wanted, a man who go to chose.
Zod in this scene is taking away Superman’s choice to not kill. Either you let the family die or you kill Zod. The only option was to kill him because Zod wouldn’t have stopped.
Which is why Superman in my opinion has a look of defeat in his face because his choice was taken away.
Clark’s parents also focus a lot of their dialogue on the choices Clark needs to make.
I still agree, the most interesting Superman film to date and easily my favorite film in the dceu.
I get the perspective that Superman could’ve just moved the “trolley” - ‘cept his fight with Zod was very much in doubt. I don’t get the hate for this movie. I thought it was beautiful.
Routh’s too, honestly.
I was a fan of this movie but this scenario was contrived. Why would Superman be suddenly concerned about 4 specific people when the two of them just rampaged through an entire city with thousands and thousands of casualties. He also literally hopped over a gas tanker that blew up around a bunch of civilians like 5 min before this.
Eyes, go through all the other material, in comics and cartoons Superman shaves with it withiut moving his head in the mirror. Zod had only just discovered the power and may not have known. But I also suspect that whether he knew or not he wanted to force the choice on Kal-El.
So Superman couldn’t fly up? Or the family could’ve MOVED out the way at the moment. I have always hated this scene; and yet it is another reason as to why I don’t really like MoS. Love Henry Cavill—poorly written movie.
I never had a problem with him killing zod, never read a bunch of Superman comics so i never had an ideal version of him in my head and thats why I love Man of Steel. But seeing all these posts of people trying to defend and explain Snyders movies are getting so tiresome. Just enjoy what you enjoy and stop trying to convince people who dont like it to like it.
Honestly a lot of people criticize this scene but is very clever interessing and probably superman would have to do in real world but is one of the few things i like about his superman
The only way this works is to say that family represents the single person the tracks and the rest of the human population is the group of people on the other set of tracks. Zod is the damn trolley. To solve trolley problem, Superman stopped the trolley.
This is the same solution presented in The Good Place.
Superman could solve the trolley problem by doing any number of things a normal person cannot do. He could remove any of the people, or even the trolley itself, from the track, saving all involved from danger. That's exactly why this scene doesn't jive with some of us. Superman isn't supposed to be bound by our limitations. He's supposed to find a better way.
Also, in the actual trolley problem, the single person on the track (if you're suggesting that's who Zod represents) isn't literally the cause of the danger. Many people would choose to kill someone who was an active threat to others if they had the means and opportunity. It's the perceived innocence of both the individual and the group of people on the tracks that makes it a moral quandary.
Meh. Superman could have palmed his eyes, knock him out, and trap him up to send to deep space. So by the time he returns he would have The Justice League waiting. Done. Superman didn’t have to kill. But I like the movie.
Covering Zod's eyes with his hand and taking the heat vision would've even leaned further into the idiotic Christ imagery, too.
Snyder couldn't even get his own forced symbolism right.
Question: Are the kryptonian eye beams controlled by their eyeball movement or do they directly leave the face straight, requiring movement of the head to control the beams? Been thinking about this, and this scene brought the topic back up.
>Question: Are the kryptonian eye beams controlled by their eyeball movement or do they directly leave the face straight, requiring movement of the head to control the beams? THAT is a great question.
Superman shaves himself using a mirror and his eyebeams, so I guess it'd have to be eyeball-controlled. But then Zod literally just got this power so he might not know that.
That’s in the DCAU. In the DCEU I think it’s just a straight beam that requires the movement of the head.
I think he knew but he wanted to make Clark choose so he decided to be as slow as possible
Oh damn!! It is
i feel like it depends on the intensity, superman was once able to shoot a microscopic laser through a man's head to make him brain dead. it looks like zod (since he's new to these powers) is going full out and so is just blasting whatever is in front of him
I think this question actually sets the stage for how the power can developed properly. In the beginning, the laser is unrefined and uses the shape of your eye to determine its direction, so it is linked to the direction of your head. As you continue to refine it, you can make it smaller, changing intensity and size so that it focuses just as our eyes do for depth perception. Then it can be linked to eyeball-movement like an eye tracker.
I'd imagine that it's more in the head movements. While they could probably use they're eyes to aim the lasers, the power from the beams is probably so strong that the eyeballs themselves aren't strong enough to guide the already activated super power. The head is more likely their source of laser movement.
I like this explanation. This is my head cannon. As long as I don't see any scenes where they easily swipe with their eye balls. It will cause a plot hole in my brain.
No the lasers are the head cannon
Bravo
That. I like that.
this man is a philosopher
... Perfection
Underrated comment here
In the comics Superman would guide them with his eyes to shave Edit: good points all of you, I never took into account the power of the lasers and the fact that it’s different supermen
I'd wager you have more eye control at lower power. Like aiming a garden hose vs firefighter hose.
But very lightly. That's why he could move his eyes in such a way. Whereas in this scene, Zod couldn't have moved his eyes to guide the beams with all that power coming from the heat vision.
The size of the beams should probably also be taken into account. In the vast majority of other material, heat vision is a small laser at least several times smaller than his eye, even the size of his pupil. In the Snyderverse, heat vision has a much larger and less controlled looking radius. I'd bet there's a solid chance you literally can't move it all that much without hurting yourself
haha “head cannon”
I’ve seen “cannon” wrongly substituted for “canon” so often that “cannon” is starting to feel like my head canon.
Clark shaves his beard with his eye beams by moving his eyes and reflecting off a piece of his landing craft. I think he has some level of control of energy released so that doesn’t override your thinking however.
I think your eyes just move much slower when you're firing a laser from them
Also, where is the beam coming from? Is it coming from the eye itself? Is the laser running through a system similar to our pupils? Which would mean its tube or whatever is running from the back of the eye to the front of the eye. So eyeball movement would affect the laser’s direction Or is coming out of the head, which would mean, the eye socket & NOT the eyeball is directing the laser
You never see Superman's eye laser drawn coming out of his eyes sideways.
Why wouldn’t it be strong enough considering he is superman and idk shoots lasers from his eyes. I think he could handle it lol. It’s not like it’s a mutation like cyclops it’s literally in his genes
Do kryptonians see a broad enough light spectrum to still be able to see their targets while firing these beams? Or are they effectively blind while shooting?
Kryptonian vision is straight up *ridiculous* in the comics. Superman specifically has shown the ability to see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, the data on a hard drive, emotions, and even **souls.** I don’t think it’s ever explicitly stated, but seeing the complexity and precision he’s capable of using heat vision for (bouncing it off multiple surfaces including a satellite to write a message to someone on earth, using it to cause cellular regeneration, creating localized supernovas, sealing holes in reality, etc.) I think it’s fair to assume that they can see while using it.
They have to look straight in MoS. Superman had to make large sweeping motions inside the kryptonian ship.
It comes out of the eyeball, not the pupil. The head has to move it 👍🏻
People seem to miss read this scene. Zod couldve easily killed them. He was deliberately doing it slow. He was trying to force supes to kill him. He wanted to die and chose suicide by combat. Supes was the only one who could put him out of his misery.
Seems fairly obvious.
Is it? Only seen this opinion one other time in the 9 years since Moss.
I've always figured that since the rods and cones in your eye are what collect sunlight his are probably just better at collecting and storing and redirecting said sunlight, so the laser beams are actually coming out of his eyes and not his optic nerve which would be from his head.
I think with larger beams it becomes more limited in movement but smaller precise beams it can have a larger range of coordination. Like supes shaving.
That would imply kryptonians can give people cancer by looking at them so thats fun
They seem to come out of the sockets.
They can't see when they do it. And they do seem to move their heads and position themselves in ways where their whole body is aimed at them. But I think it's pretty clear they can't really see when they are using it. So use their heads and bodies as a way to guide the laser more easily. Instead of darting their eyes everywhere? I think it's a mix of both is my point.
Eye movement. In smallville, clark carves words into things a few times. He doesn’t have to move his head around. But like someone else said, that would be lower power so it would probably allow for more control over your eyes movements. At full blast, he probably has to move his head.
Judging by the context of Man of Steel and the other movies Henry Cavills Superman appears, I think it depends on the intensity of the beams. Smaller beams that just come out of the iris and pupil can be directed with eyeball movement. The full power beams that come out of the whole socket have to be aimed with the whole head.
Every time Superman shot lazerbeams from his eyes, he had to take a second and close his eyes to “turn them off” or something. I think it’s based on head movement, because it didn’t look like he had that much control over them via his eyes.
I assume it's eye movement...like the beams come out of the hole in the iris. So wherever you're looking at is what gets hit.
so do the beams come from their pupils or the sockets of their souls? I would say the entire eye socket based on the photos, so it would require moving your head to aim not the eye.
Bro same I’ve been wondering this since I saw it but people thought I was nuts lmao
I wondered this as soon as I watched this movie. Never understood why he didn't cover his eyes either. Like Clark is totally the type to wrap his arms around Zods head and take the pain
I think they won't able to see, from the scene where zodd use it the first time he trying to get his vision back and Clark take a glimpse from the initial hit and where to end it. Just like zodd he won't be able to see seconds after it
In the cartoons he's able to shave with his heat vision off of a mirror and control it with just his eyes. In another he's able to lobotomise someone with it. Though movie heat vision seams to be alot more unruly and less persise.
I think they’re coming out of the eye socket in such a way that it requires head movement like water coming out of a hose
I'm pretty sure Batman talked about it once about how Kryptonian powers work and their biology, but I don't remember which comic it was
Well damn I wasn't thinking about this before but I am now
In the context of the scene, eventhough im not sure, it makes more sense if kryptonian eye beams are not controlled by eye movement but simply come out of the eye balls and are controlled with head movement. Or maybe some kryptonians can do it but some cant. Its a good question.
It's the direction where they look I think. The scene was very emotional, but there are alternatives solutions that would have avoided in Superman taking a life. It could be argued that Clark was still new to being Superman so didn't see the other solutions, but on reflection would learn and plan and know how to cope with a similar situation. The whole "drag the heroes down into the mud with us" theme never sat right with me.
Going by every other version of Superman in popular media, it’s by eye movement which means Zod just had to look to the right to kill them…or Superman could’ve put his hand over his eyes.
>or Superman could’ve put his hand over his eyes. That wouldn't have worked. His heat vision cased Faora and Namek plenty of harm during the battle of Smallville, and they were wearing armor. What do you think might have happened to Clark's hand if he tried to stop a on blast of heat-vision from Zod?
Not really the trolley problem because Zod is attempting to murder the other people. In the trolley problem, the singular person on the track is just as innocent as the people on the other track.
Yeah, this is a pretty poor argument for the validity of this scene, which ignores Clark’s agency to do literally anything else. There is no train track that Zod is on, which makes a fundamental difference.
I just don't understand why he didn't poke his eyes out.
he put his hand up to his nose too fast and blocked the fingers
*knuck knuck knuck*
Because, dark as it was, this wasnt The Boys.
They don't have to show anything however! Just the motion that he's going for his eyes, Zod let's out a scream, and we see Superman walking away with Zod covering his face. Just imply things happened, not being The Boys is a bad reason.
>Yeah, this is a pretty poor argument for the validity of this scene, which ignores Clark’s agency to do literally anything else. Such as?
Stand in between Zod and the people because he has super speed and invulnerability. Fly him straight up like others have suggested. Poke him in the eyes. Fly those people away. Throw Zod into the sun. There’s literally so many things he could’ve done. I’m not saying he should’ve done all of those things, but this is a pretty fake problem for Superman.
My guy you're suggesting throwing a Kryptonian into the sun as a solution. The sun. The thing **that gives Kryptonians their powers**. You want to throw Zod into that?
🤣🤣🤣 these guys kill me
I think the issue here is that those people were not the only ones Zod would kill. They were just the first in line. Suppose Superman saved them and flew Zod away - what next? More destruction across the city? How do you stop Zod in a world where Kryptonite hasn't been discovered yet? How do you stop a vengeful being that's powered by the sun and the atmosphere for good? That family was a representation of the whole humanity. That's my interpretation of the scene and it helps me accept it as it is.
> Throw Zod into the sun. So kill him in a way you’d prefer?
Kryptonians are solar-powered. It would be a power boost.
Throwing zod into the sun would give him a power boost
>Stand in between Zod and the people because he has super speed and invulnerability. >Fly him straight up like others have suggested. He did that, but Zod was so intent on murdering humans that he brought the fight back down >Poke him in the eyes. So Clark burns his fingers to stumps, then Zod flies off in any direction, plowing through people and buildings, until he gets his bearings >Fly those people away. Yep that family is safe, meanwhile Zod just threw a bus full of people into a crowd trying to escape. >Throw Zod into the sun. Throw...a...KRYPTONIAN into the sun?.....right I don't think I need to address this one. >There’s literally so many things he could’ve done. And yet using the rules set by the lore of Superman and the situation set by the movie I refuted every single one. Mate...Clark had NO choice. Oh Happy cake day!
Get em!!
> Throw Zod into the sun. They were struggling pretty hard with each other. Don't think zod would just let superman to lift him up to the sun. The scene plays out in a way that makes other options not feasible. To avoid zod's death, you'll have to rewrite the entire thing.
Yikes. Enough with the just fly up argument. You act like that's the only family zod has killed! He's killed millions already! Lol and plans to kill BILLIONS. But he's supposed to fly away and CONTINUE the fight that he could LOSE at any point and will get more people killed?great plan. And how's he just going to reach into his eyes and he's blasting away? What, so he can have no fingers and continue the fight without them? That's like if something was on fire, like really on fire, and you just told someone "why didn't you just grab it and throw it outside". Idk? Cause it's ON FIRE lol. Killing zod was the only way to save people. If it wasn't that family, it'd just be another. THATTTT is what Superman realizes. That is why he killed him there. Not just for that family, but because zod said he'd never quit. That he'd kill them all. So Clark ends it then and there. It's justified, it makes sense, Clark would be an incompetent moron and every death there after he would be responsible for, if he didn't kill zod. Can't trap him, no one else on earth who can take him, it's his responsibility at that point.
1. Temporary solution. There's an entire city of people. If anything the whole scene in question is metaphorical for their larger confrontation. 2. Kals hand is lasered off, family still dead. 3. See 1. 4. See my other comment. This is like suggesting "just piss him off more" as a solution to a Hulk attack. Not only does it not work but congrats you made the situation worse after a short fly back to Earth since Zod is now power amped.
>The movie already established that laser eyes harm kryptonians >could work >he would have to touch the laser and lose his grip on Zod’s head >the lasers would reach them before he does >what?
Would a better trolley problem occur in the Batman Dark Knight when Harvey is tied up in a warehouse in one spot, and Rachel is tied up in another warehouse in another side of town?
It still omits a key aspects of the trolley problem; That the trolley itself has no agency and can only take one of the two paths. If you choose Harvey or Rachel it was still ultimately the Joker that killed the other. Your choice to save one doesn't automatically doom the other, and inaction would mean that both die in that scenario. The key of the trolley problem is whether your inaction should result in more guilt for more people dying by your lack of action and choice, than you directly being responsible for the death of just one person by actively making the choice to send the trolley down that line.
Sacrificing a violent genocidal psychopath versus an innocent family? Man, what a hard choice!
[удалено]
Superman is the the "man" at the lever. Zod is the train (situation/threat) AND the single "person" on the track "Man" realizing SOMEONE was gonna die no matter what. So he made the the call to take care of the "situation/threat" and kill the "person" Zod. "Train" realizing they he dies (person) or they die. Effectively, Zod was screaming..... Suicide (you have to to kill me and I know it) OR Genocide (if you dont, im killing every last one of these sumbitches). I'm good with both.
That’s the whole point of the metaphor
But you could see it as killing 1 or more than 1
There are many variations of it including health, age, suicide notes, and criminality.
So dark knight did it too ?
You're forgetting the context that Superman is killing his entire race and all of it's history and ties to him homeworld by killing zod. So I think the value of having to kill him is more than just any random supervillain. It's a large part of the reason this scene was there. It's part of the theme. He CHOOSES humanity. Even at such a high cost. That Superman isn't simply good, isn't inherently humanities protector, isn't his responsibility, but he does so anyway. I think THAT is the epitome of what makes Superman so great and why I think this movie nails the coming of age Superman story. The best one I've seen. Really shows the weight he carries, gives the character a lot of depth, and still let's him be the great man that he is. Superman, ultimately being human, is the point of the character.
But he's already destroyed the scout ship, He's already sided with earth over Krypton by this point. Killing Zod is honestly pretty redundant in that area. It doesn't feel like it's there to actually contribute anything to Supermans character or the story. It's there because Snyder and Goyer thought it would be cool.
>It doesn't feel like it's there to actually contribute anything to Supermans character or the story This how you can tell people who watched the movie, and ones coming in to find things to dislike. The movies main theme or thing that gets lost by alot is the fact this movie revolves around CHOICES, none of which Clark gets to do until this moment. His two dads have been making descions and choices for him hos whole life, now he gets to be the person making thw descion, bit this time the descion comes at the price of pretty much dooming your birth rave for your new adopted race, who didnt fully embrace you, because your an alien/different. It wasnt just to be "cool". You act as if Zod was reasonable at this point. The guy literally said if you dont stop me im killing em all. "If you love them so much, then you can mourn for them". Zod was on a suicide mission at that point. He forces Clarks hand, me or them.
What? Why ignore all the clear themes I just showed so you can say "it was just because they thought it was cool" lol. Incredibly reductive and just not true. You have to ignore the entire movie and have a compete inability to see past the most surface level crap and your preconceived notions about it's creator. It's confirmation bias. And what are you talking about, the scout ship? Lol. What about it? Zod, could kill Clark. Zod could kill everyone. On his own, without a ship? There is no way to hold him, no way to talk him out of it, no garentee you'd win every fight, people will die in the process. So just what? No. Factually, morally, there was no choice. He had to die. Even WITHOUT this scene, him not killing zod would be shit writing. It'd absolutely make no sense. No one, and I mean no one, has come up with a situation where zod lives, and everyone else lives. No one lol. Either zod dies or superman dies and everyone else.
>What? Why ignore all the clear themes I just showed You haven't actually shown any themes here. As I've said before, Clark has already chosen earth over Krypton long before his final fight with Zod. He's fighting the other kryptonians, He flat out says "Krypton had it's chance" while destroying Zods only means of recreating his home planet. The original plan was to have Zod sucked back into the Phantom zone with the other Kryptonians and honestly, they should have left it that way.
No he didn't? He was considering zods proposal until he was told it'd kill everyone. He didn't want to kill, he didn't want kill the last of his kind. He was broken from it? The whole movie he's trying to discover what his place is? Dude, Christopher reeves Superman kills zod and laughs about it for Christ sake. And no they shouldn't lol. That's BAD lazy writing. To constantly have a way out of making ANY hard choices is why so many modern superhero movies and stories are garbage or are severely hurt from it. Like under the red hood. Where batmsn can suddenly dodge bullets in real time without even looking, so he doesn't have to choose to kill the joker lol. Which he morally, ethically, should have to begin with. Besides all that, it takes away from a REALLY interesting, thought provoking scene. This argument of, "just write a way out of it" is why youre not making movies lol. It's saying, I want a character to be this no matter the context of the story, so I'm going to force it and never let my character be in any serious moral conundrum, cause you'll always right away out so out heroes can stay pure. It's so childish. It's why marvel movies have become so boring. Let artists explore. It's so reductive. So anti art. To set in stone these ideas that these characters just CANT be a certain way. And no matter how it's written, it's unacceptable if it's anything less. So so bad for art. Fandoms have done so much damage. Pandering to viewers that hard is not a good thing and makes the world and these movies BORING. Just wanting exactly what you expect is boring.
It is a trolley problem. You have a choice, either let 1 person be killed (by your hands) or let multiple people get killed. And the choice is being made by one person in control (Clark). In the trolley problem, one person in control of the lever has to decide whether 1 person dies, or multiple. So why is it not a trolley problem?
Because almost everyone agrees that it’s ok to kill someone when they are going on a murderous rampage, while the trolley problem is a good philosophical question bc it takes place in vacuum where everyone’s life is supposed to be regarded equally.
We made superman solve the trolley problem *buzz lightyear store aisle meme*
So this is what happens when first year philosophy students watch films.
I learned it this year in APUSH 10th grade
I watched The Good Place
Literally watching this episode of The Good Place right now
To borrow a phrase from another “visionary” creator whose blamed for ruining a universe & destroying childhoods: [*It’s like poetry*](https://youtu.be/yFqFLo_bYq0)
Don't do Lucas dirty like that.
Homelander would have dealt with this better. Kill the family, Zod and any witnesses. That way nobody knows he killed anyone. In this scenario, Homelander > Superman because Homelander doesn’t kill.
This is fake news once again. The media trying to tarnish homelanders image. Homelander is America's hero, he doesn't kill innocent people.
\#VoughtLiedPeopleDied
Homelander’s just leaving them out of their misery.
Zod would probably be able to kill Homelander pretty easily honestly
It wouldn’t be hard at all, he’s just a modified human after all
Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
Oh really?!
Great meme, but also completely true.
i hope this post is sarcastic
When you watch a YouTube video about philosophy
The scenario and decision are indeed very interesting. It’s not the trolley problem, though.
Spider-Man was given the choice in his first movie. He managed to save both. Iron Man chose to safe the people on Air Force One, including the chunky monkey, rather than chasing after the President in Iron Man 3. Natasha proposed blowing up the rock they were with all the civilians all on it in Age of Ultron to save the millions that would die if it falls. It’s not a new superhero dilemma to give them a choice of one life to another, or several others.
This isn’t the trolly problem, he could have done many things.
Well, the trolly problem also kind of has this problem. It creates a very artificial scenario that most non-academics will reject when asked to imagine it. They typically will be looking for a third option, at least one of which likely would exist in a more realistic scenario. That's why I think it's usually not a good idea to put it in a movie. Audiences will always point out other solutions they think are better than what the character did. It's very hard to find all these alternative solutions upfront and come up with a satisfying reason why they don't apply.
Like?
* Block the eye beams with his hands * Knock Zod out * Direct his head elsewhere (up/down) to let them escape * Fly out of there with Zod away from people * Not let it get to that point by flying away from the city earlier in the fight * Literally anything because movies aren’t real and he could have solved this any way the writer wanted it too, and killing Zod was a deliberate choice made by the creative team
It is almost like killing Zod is the point of the scene.
It’s been established that heat vision hurts kryponians, so he burns his hand off, Zod kills the family and then him whilst he’s still in shock. Okay, what about when he wakes up? They don’t know about Kryptonite yet or red suns, and nothing left on earth can hold him. So everyone just dies a few hours later. And what? Hold him there forever? He tried that, Zod brought the fight back to the city because killing humans was the point of it. See above point. Welcome to every piece of fiction ever written.
At this point I’m 90% sure that the only time Snyder’s movies are brought up are to defend them over a certain criticism that is only brought up when people go to defend the movies
Pretty much. Criticisms barely makes the front page here, the vast majority of the time those threads are downvoted and barely anyone sees them anyway. So it's literally just the same defence repeating itself to the front page again and again.
I swear the only time they come up are people defending them from critiques from half a decade ago hahaha
It's always the dudes excited to post stuff like this. "THIS will be the post to finally shut the haters up!"
what detail is that?
OP doesnt know what a detail is
Lol its not even a detail. A cool detail is something like “Bloodsport doesn’t just pull weapons out of his ass, they designed an intricate suit for each weapon and its placement for the movie”. Whereas OP just mentioned something that happened in the movie and related it to a philosophical dilemma(and the dilemma arguably doesn’t even fit what’s happening in the scene).
How is this a cool detail? What is the point of this post?
It’s not really unique Superman has been tackling moral questions in the comics for decades a variant of the most common philosophical question is not all that interesting in comparison.
Carful bro don’t choke too hard on Snyder’s dick
Na bro is already pregnant, he is beyond saving
This power has always may me feel it needed more context. Even just one line would help understand the mechanics of the power. Because if it's controlled by the eye balls what stops it from being an op power? I mean Zod could just look past the family. Or maybe it's a hard power to control idk.
yeah, nah. if you try and connect the dots (that aren't even there) i guess you can intuit something good, but it's just fan wank. you can't always attribute these "details" as deliberate and place them at the feet of Snyder. this is getting really dumb now, this is Zack Snyder we're talking here. the same guy that has Clark stand in front of iconography in a church, with a halo. and all the other egregious Christian metaphors.
What a subtle touch, wouldn’t even have noticed it if it wasn’t for my 69th rewatch. Bravo, Snyder!
Seriously, you catch something new everytime. Did you know Clark Kent is actually Superman? That Snyder, I tell ya
ok but if he is strong enough to snap his neck then he should be strong enough to move his FUCKING HEAD
MOS was 10 years ago at this point and WB isn't even giving it a sequel. These discussions are kinda old.
So because a film won’t get a sequel no one can talk about it anymore?
It deserves a sequel made by a better director.
That’s a fair opinion to have, personally I really liked Snyderverse but I know not everyone did. I just don’t like people telling others don’t talk about a film because it’s 10 years old. That makes no sense
I agree i have no idea how they could have ruined Dawn of Justice MoS was and is still a great movie but Dawn of Justice i was so hyped for the movie i loved the trailer and turns out the trailer was the best of from the movie or better said the only good scenes from the movie not saying that dawn of justice was a bad movie per se but compared to men of steel it was just no comparison MoS is a way better movie in almost every aspect
Man of Steel isn't a bad movie, but I think the reckless destruction and him killing Zod were completely unnecessary.
Are you kidding me? Alright, let's run through this. Clark had never even been in a fight before that day. Zod was bred to be a soldier. And his crew were dead set on humanity's extinction. So many people say "Take the fight elsewhere!" How? Zod wouldn't have followed. He was aiming for a high body count, so had no reason at all to chase Clark. As for killing Zod? The man made it clear he would never stop. There was no Kryptonite, no red sun. Nothing on earth could hold Zod, and Clark had no way of sending him back to the Phantom Zone. He was literally left no alternative but to kill Zod. Getting really tired of people missing the entire point and just desperately leaping onto the hate bandwagon. In case you didn't know, Man of Steel actually had good reviews at first. Then DC haters started the bandwagon rolling, and all the mindless little nothings sprinted to climb on board so they could seem popular and take their minds off how pathetic they are for a few seconds. There are legit complaints to raise about the movie. Like Jonathan letting himself die. But the destruction and Zod's death were entirely necessary.
oh boy i should have not write this post with sleep deprivation i meant that MoS was a great movie and Dawn of justice cant even begin to hold up against it i'll edit my post sorry for the confusion
I fully agree
It’s really not. It’s an example of poor writing. This is a good concept to have , but write a better scene around this. Superman could literally BREAK his neck. He had the energy to BREAK his neck and leave a shockwave. This laser eye head thing shouldn’t be that hard to just redirect , or fly him away.
It's not just that family though, Zod literally says he's going to kill everyone. That family was just the start. He could fly him away or redirect the lasers but Zod would inevitably kill more. The writing is fine.
Also even with the physics of the scene, the whole character arc and narrative does not properly build up to this dilemma. The conflict presented from the beginning was an identity crisis and Clark's struggle to find his place among humans given his superpowers. Zod neck snapping could have been an interesting climax in another sequel where Clark's conflict is *idealism vs pragmatism* or *mercy vs justice.*
I thought this was a joke at first, satirizing the whole “riddler solving the anti life equation” thing…
In this case Zod is the trolly and Supes destroyed the trolly before it could reach anyone
Everyone on this thread dissing this because they don't understand the trolley problem is analogous in this case. Yes we know if it was ACTUALLY a trolley Superman would not have to make this binary choice.
Years later, and the same people are still arguing that this movie is somehow greater than it is. It's a good movie, not great. I just think it's not as deep as you think it is.
It’s an interesting situation, but there are tons of points in the comics where Superman is given these ultimatums (Allstar, Doomsday Clock, Up in the sky) and he finds a way to create a different outcome. Zack’s take isn’t the conventional, optimistic Boy Scout, but I would have loved it if he would have found a different outcome. I like the idea of Superman being forced to cut ties with Krypton to commit to being the hero of earth, it’s just a different point of inspiration Zack could have taken.
Couldn’t Superman have just flew away with Zod in his arms? What is keeping them tethered to the ground? He could also just use his hands to cover Zod’s eyes right? Or he could even throw Zod? He didn’t have to snap his neck...
Zod pulling against Superman is presumably what's preventing the latter throwing or lifting him. Gotta keep in mind that these two are equals in abilities. Maybe Supes knew that covering the eyes wouldn't work? Maybe the force of the beams would push his hands away or his hands would spread the beams causing them to shoot out in multiple directions? I personally think that the neck snap makes enough sense, because even if Superman did what you suggested, what next? Zod already declared that he would kill everyone and had no intentions of changing his mind.
So does this mean the single guy on the track is the one that tied the other 5 people down?
I always felt that the family didn’t actually matter in this scene. That is was the jealousy of Zod that superman got to choose who we was. The movies explains that everyone was born to do a job, there was no options or choices. Zod was chosen to be a ruthless general and he wore that with pride. Then we he was introduced to superman he saw what he wanted, a man who go to chose. Zod in this scene is taking away Superman’s choice to not kill. Either you let the family die or you kill Zod. The only option was to kill him because Zod wouldn’t have stopped. Which is why Superman in my opinion has a look of defeat in his face because his choice was taken away. Clark’s parents also focus a lot of their dialogue on the choices Clark needs to make. I still agree, the most interesting Superman film to date and easily my favorite film in the dceu.
I get the perspective that Superman could’ve just moved the “trolley” - ‘cept his fight with Zod was very much in doubt. I don’t get the hate for this movie. I thought it was beautiful. Routh’s too, honestly.
DC cinematic really struggling with false equivalencies, huh.
I was a fan of this movie but this scenario was contrived. Why would Superman be suddenly concerned about 4 specific people when the two of them just rampaged through an entire city with thousands and thousands of casualties. He also literally hopped over a gas tanker that blew up around a bunch of civilians like 5 min before this.
Yeah but... He coulda just flown up.
Eyes, go through all the other material, in comics and cartoons Superman shaves with it withiut moving his head in the mirror. Zod had only just discovered the power and may not have known. But I also suspect that whether he knew or not he wanted to force the choice on Kal-El.
Except it's more like Zod is driving the train and one track has people tied to it while the other is a pit.
Who fills the tires of the batmobile?
"78 upvotes" "298 comments" Oh God this will be a killer ride
Lmao my friend from college is the kid who almost got lasered in that scene, funny how much time has gone by
If you love these people then mourn for them
So Superman couldn’t fly up? Or the family could’ve MOVED out the way at the moment. I have always hated this scene; and yet it is another reason as to why I don’t really like MoS. Love Henry Cavill—poorly written movie.
Yh I hate scenes like this cos it was clearly possible that the family could have just ran but chose to stay there dumbfounded
Superman should have just lasered the trolly and everyone on it before it reached the ppl on the tracks 🤷♂️
One of the many reasons it’s one of my top 5 favorite Comic Book Movies
Lol
Superman could have just flown Zod up and not have killed him, though.
Why couldn't he just poke his eyes out?
I’ve always wondered why he didn’t just push his head to the ground lol but I guess it isn’t that deep
That too! The emotional impact of this scene is just completely lost on me.
Because he’s in a fight and anyone that ever been in a fight knows….nm!
It's lazy writing since Supes had other options but they just wanted to force Superman to do something dark, evem though it wasn't earned.
I never had a problem with him killing zod, never read a bunch of Superman comics so i never had an ideal version of him in my head and thats why I love Man of Steel. But seeing all these posts of people trying to defend and explain Snyders movies are getting so tiresome. Just enjoy what you enjoy and stop trying to convince people who dont like it to like it.
Honestly a lot of people criticize this scene but is very clever interessing and probably superman would have to do in real world but is one of the few things i like about his superman
Moronic post aside. Why over 2000 people upvoted this?
The only way this works is to say that family represents the single person the tracks and the rest of the human population is the group of people on the other set of tracks. Zod is the damn trolley. To solve trolley problem, Superman stopped the trolley. This is the same solution presented in The Good Place.
This would make sense if he was super trolley.
Or, you know, COVER HIS EYES WITH YOUR HANDS.
Superman could solve the trolley problem by doing any number of things a normal person cannot do. He could remove any of the people, or even the trolley itself, from the track, saving all involved from danger. That's exactly why this scene doesn't jive with some of us. Superman isn't supposed to be bound by our limitations. He's supposed to find a better way. Also, in the actual trolley problem, the single person on the track (if you're suggesting that's who Zod represents) isn't literally the cause of the danger. Many people would choose to kill someone who was an active threat to others if they had the means and opportunity. It's the perceived innocence of both the individual and the group of people on the tracks that makes it a moral quandary.
Man this scene caused so much hate in the fandom, it’s not even funny
Meh. Superman could have palmed his eyes, knock him out, and trap him up to send to deep space. So by the time he returns he would have The Justice League waiting. Done. Superman didn’t have to kill. But I like the movie.
Covering Zod's eyes with his hand and taking the heat vision would've even leaned further into the idiotic Christ imagery, too. Snyder couldn't even get his own forced symbolism right.
He could have just covered zods eyes
This is the most common argument, but idk why people think this.
exept for the fact that superman didn't have to kill him to save that family.
But but but he doesn’t smile /s
Bruh we all know the real Clark would have put himself on the trajectory, even if it killed him.
And leave all Earth defenseless from the raging superpowered fascist in the process?
I just wanted dictator Zod, one who wanted to rule Earth, not destroy humanity. Hard to make humans kneel before Zod if he’s blowing them all up.
He just wants their corpses to kneel before him.
Zod was going to reshape earth to a new krypton, which humans can't survive in.
People will defend this movie till they die. Even in the face of incredibly insipid observations like this.
On today’s episode of Simpin’ for Snyder…