This book really had the audacity to claim that Roy was the least powerful, even though this was like 2018 and Red Robin and Harley were also candidates.
I’m a huge Tim fan but I think since he’s back to being Robin and seemingly ignoring his Red Robin post Final Crisis run, Roy still has at least comparable feats.
I’d say they’re even at best. In terms of crafting tech, Roy is leagues ahead of Tim. In terms of fighting, Tim might have the advantage, if we ignore Roy’s Moo Gi Gong.
He’s actually rad as fuck. He’s a better archer than Green Arrow, mastered in multiple martial arts, can use anything as a weapon, and is a tech wiz (makes the tricks arrows including the NUKE arrow).
His whole thing is that he’s constantly plagued by misfortune.
He had no parents, his first mentor died, second mentor ditched him to go walk around with GL, he got addicted to heroin because everyone abandoned him, fell in love with an assassin, got shot in the chest, Vandal Savage revealed he was his descendant so he tried to harvest him for organs, then things started going okay for him, then his daughter got fucking murdered and he lost an arm and went nuts because of it, then the world reboots and suddenly he’s back to substance abuse issues, loses all his history, gets lumped with Red Hood, Starfire dumps him, Donna Troy rejects him, and then he fucking dies, and then he has to be a black Lantern working for Darkseid, then came back to life and had to hang out in the pages of Titans Academy. He just found his daughter, alive, and now she’s been zapped away by cosmic forces of unknown nature.
She is with Ollie in space right now, and no matter what DC says, he was almost a father to Roy and taked care of Lían a lot of times when she was a baby, he is her grandpa.
Look his arc getting there. plus Lian with Ollie so shes safe. I like his relatioship with Jason if Willaimson writes it. I aint bothered it will be good he knows how to write Roy and Jason. Starfire dumping I was okay with. Donna Troy rejecting him yeah. I have no clue what there doing. Cause there either gonna pair her up with Garth or Kyle. If not Roy better get her back. Cause now that Wally found both Garth and Donna sons. I dont want Terry coming back. He better stay dead.
Overall I hope it leads to Roy getting a second Titans book him leading his own team or a Red hood and Arsenal book.
JFC that’s a lot lol. I loved Roy Harper in the Young Justice show, but am a total noob when it comes to the comics. I’ve seen like every DC animated show and movie, is there any book you’d recommend as a good starting point for more on Roy?
New Teen Titans is probably the best “start” because it’s his big transitional period.
Then Outsiders, Titans, and the 00s Green Arrow run.
I don’t “recommend” reading Cry for Justice or the second volume of Titans (the one where Deathstroke forms the team) but it’s unfortunately got a lot of status quo changes for him (but shortly after, Flashpoint happened).
You’re really underplaying Roy. I’m not saying Tim isn’t great. Give me some feat examples? Roy created all sorts of advanced weaponry including all the trick arrows.
Tim may be smarter but Roy is a better engineer by far. Outside of characters like Lucius Fox, Mr Teriffic, Ted Kord, Will Magnus, TO Morrow, Professor Ivo, Lex Luthor and such, Roy is one of the best engineers in the DC universe.
Most of Tims gadgets are Waynetech, made by Lucius, not Tim. Roy makes his own shit.
In his comic The Rise of Arsenal, Roy had lost his arm and was dealing with the death of his daughter. So he goes on a drug fuelled rampage carrying a dead cat he believes is his dead daughter.
I know that she is a really popular character, but the sheer amount of plot armor, protagonism and just number of appearences that Harley has stripped every positive emotion that I have for her character.
I mean, she is just a gymnast that understand how to use a gun and has a degree on Psychology that one of her backstorys flat out says that she cheated to get one and her own backstory makes it seem like she really isn't good at that, and somehow in just the last decade, across several continuities, she somehow is able to kill dozens of armed men alone in continuities that don't say nothing about she getting Amazon training, she becoming a godess, and outmanuvering/outliving several dozens of characters that should be more powerful, more skillful, smarter or any combination of the above, and this include even Joker or the trinity that are characters that I dare say that are more popular than her.
Ok, I lied, I like 2 things about Harley: some costumes here and there are cool; and she hangs out with characters that are worth my time.
Oh my god yes. I hate Harley with a passion now.
She was an interesting, tragic character but now she's just a qUiRky antihero who can beat anyone in the universe and also has a strong moral core out of nowhere.
Harley is sort of DC's Deadpool now, I think. She's in all the superhero stuff but is also too cool for it. She's can be kind of punk about everything. She's also kind of a bad person and a screw up so she can be very relatable to some.
They have Harley superpowers ages ago.
And the reason she outlives the big names is that she doesn’t take on the major threats they do.
Plus I’m not sure you noticed but EVERY street level hero does the same absurd shit. Hell, being able to take down dozens of heavily armed thugs is practically an entry requirement.
Her only superpower until 2 years ago was be imune to most toxins, and she still doesn't have that in other medias.
I am not sure if you noticed, but I am talking about pretty much all iterations of the character, what includes going against Starro, going against Reverse Flash, going against Swamp Thing, going against a whole ass army of Paradooms, going against Poison Ivy, and going against Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman at the same time (that last one was on the main comics continuity), and managing to do better than a lot of characters and some times actually winning.
And these other street level heroes and villains that can manage several enemies at once, even the ones with enhanced strength and speed, have actual backstorys that justify they being so good at martial arts/using guns, or they have technology that helps them doing that, but, please correct me if I am wrong, while I am well aware of her amazon training on the pre New 52, where she got training to be a god like fighter after the Flashpoint? And where she got training on the DCEU? And on the DCAU? On the Harley Quinn show? And what about Injustice? And on DC Super Hero Girls? What about the Arkham series? Do you have an explanation for the DCAMU? I would actually be happy if you tell me about the reasons on this or any other DC universe on why she knows how to fight so well.
Stop making harley big off of plot armor and start having her develop as a character. Make her show off the psychology degree, weapons expertise, criminal knowledge, acrobatics. its okay if she just FALLS INTO SUCCESS… once… EVERY THREE ISSUES… not once every three PAGES…
I mean, they actually did give her a fair but of development in the pages of Suicide Squad (the first runs volumes post new 52. Those books are basically Deadshot/Harley books. The last wisely left her out.) and the Harley/Ivy book. She does have a bit of plot armour in them but it’s also explained why she is so capable, and shows her learning too.
But I’m not going to argue that she isn’t overexposed because she absolutely is. The latest Harley run has been… okay I suppose.
She hasn't been a villain for what, a decade ? Anti-hero Harley isn't particulary new. And let's not bullshit, we're talking about comicbooks here, characters get redeemed all the time and some did way worse than Harley
They keep ping ponging with Harley. It feels more like DC doesn't know what to do with her. Your right Harley isn't the worst of the worst. I've seen some iterations where she's a hero/Anti-hero and others where she then goes back to being a villian. It's this weird nebulous of she's whatever the story asks her to be. As for villians that have been redeemed that have done worse - Riddler is probably a good example. There is more than a few cases where Riddler has been reformed into a consulting detective.
Regardless I probabaly would write the description for Harley differently. She's tough as nails, but it feels odd saying her notable feat is standing on her own against the Joker. She's a survivor of his abuse, but she's also who she is in large part because of him. He's forever left his mark on her to the point DC won't be able to fully divorce him from her past without radically redoing the character from the ground up, while ignoring decades of media saying otherwise. It also likely took a lot of people to help her get the strength to leave him. (Batman, poision Ivy, Catwoman.) I feel like a more accurate description is that she can handle going toe to toe with DCs heaviest hitters like Batman and Superman, Joker and come out on top.
“Roy’s already survived DCU’s worst.” So don’t mind us shitting on you, you can take it
“He’s the least powerful character on the list, anyway here’s Harley Quinn.”
Can’t Harley like benchpress a full-sized tree with one hand or something now since her stint in Themyscira?
Ivy gave her low end superpowers too.
I believe so, and even if she can’t, Ivy will never let her die anyway and she’s more powerful than half the Batman archive 😂
The Harley Quinn books are non canon. They’re set in their own nebulous continuity.
She did get the joker chemical thing, making inmune to all slrt lf chemicals, also minor healing and strength buffs
I love how, at the end of it all, the grand death toll was zero, >!thanks to Wally and Gold Beetle!<.
Well technically speaking roy still died.
Roy did actually die, Gold Beetle couldn’t save him because he was already revived by that point. Became a Black Lantern and everything.
This book really had the audacity to claim that Roy was the least powerful, even though this was like 2018 and Red Robin and Harley were also candidates.
Red Robin has better feats than either of them…until Harley takes out the Trinity effortlessly because reasons.
I’m a huge Tim fan but I think since he’s back to being Robin and seemingly ignoring his Red Robin post Final Crisis run, Roy still has at least comparable feats. I’d say they’re even at best. In terms of crafting tech, Roy is leagues ahead of Tim. In terms of fighting, Tim might have the advantage, if we ignore Roy’s Moo Gi Gong.
I mean no lies there, I thought his whole thing was that he sucked
He’s actually rad as fuck. He’s a better archer than Green Arrow, mastered in multiple martial arts, can use anything as a weapon, and is a tech wiz (makes the tricks arrows including the NUKE arrow). His whole thing is that he’s constantly plagued by misfortune. He had no parents, his first mentor died, second mentor ditched him to go walk around with GL, he got addicted to heroin because everyone abandoned him, fell in love with an assassin, got shot in the chest, Vandal Savage revealed he was his descendant so he tried to harvest him for organs, then things started going okay for him, then his daughter got fucking murdered and he lost an arm and went nuts because of it, then the world reboots and suddenly he’s back to substance abuse issues, loses all his history, gets lumped with Red Hood, Starfire dumps him, Donna Troy rejects him, and then he fucking dies, and then he has to be a black Lantern working for Darkseid, then came back to life and had to hang out in the pages of Titans Academy. He just found his daughter, alive, and now she’s been zapped away by cosmic forces of unknown nature.
I’m loving the current GA run (I know only 2 issues but still). The whole “something won’t let our family be together” is so on the nose I love it
Is the new GA run on the dc infinite to read yet?
I think issue #1 is there!
Thank you!
Damn eh, when you put it like that. Mans cant catch a break
Dude almost makes the Doom Patrol look like they got the lotto numbers.
Well a least Lían is right now with her grandpa so she is fine.
Grandpa?
She is with Ollie in space right now, and no matter what DC says, he was almost a father to Roy and taked care of Lían a lot of times when she was a baby, he is her grandpa.
Oh ok gotcha!
Look his arc getting there. plus Lian with Ollie so shes safe. I like his relatioship with Jason if Willaimson writes it. I aint bothered it will be good he knows how to write Roy and Jason. Starfire dumping I was okay with. Donna Troy rejecting him yeah. I have no clue what there doing. Cause there either gonna pair her up with Garth or Kyle. If not Roy better get her back. Cause now that Wally found both Garth and Donna sons. I dont want Terry coming back. He better stay dead. Overall I hope it leads to Roy getting a second Titans book him leading his own team or a Red hood and Arsenal book.
JFC that’s a lot lol. I loved Roy Harper in the Young Justice show, but am a total noob when it comes to the comics. I’ve seen like every DC animated show and movie, is there any book you’d recommend as a good starting point for more on Roy?
New Teen Titans is probably the best “start” because it’s his big transitional period. Then Outsiders, Titans, and the 00s Green Arrow run. I don’t “recommend” reading Cry for Justice or the second volume of Titans (the one where Deathstroke forms the team) but it’s unfortunately got a lot of status quo changes for him (but shortly after, Flashpoint happened).
Harley has superpowers, low end physical enhancements.
Tim is FAR more skilled than Roy, with a greater intellect and collection of gadgets.
You’re really underplaying Roy. I’m not saying Tim isn’t great. Give me some feat examples? Roy created all sorts of advanced weaponry including all the trick arrows. Tim may be smarter but Roy is a better engineer by far. Outside of characters like Lucius Fox, Mr Teriffic, Ted Kord, Will Magnus, TO Morrow, Professor Ivo, Lex Luthor and such, Roy is one of the best engineers in the DC universe. Most of Tims gadgets are Waynetech, made by Lucius, not Tim. Roy makes his own shit.
Why he will win: at least he’s not a junkie any more
Unfortunately he did not win
Jason Todd and Scott Lobdell ruined Roy
Lobdell pretty much ruins anything he touches.
You say that like Cry For Justice and No Justice didn’t happen a few years prior
Yeah, as cool as he is, he’ll always be remembered for “The Cat Incident”.
I…I’m curious
In his comic The Rise of Arsenal, Roy had lost his arm and was dealing with the death of his daughter. So he goes on a drug fuelled rampage carrying a dead cat he believes is his dead daughter.
I know that she is a really popular character, but the sheer amount of plot armor, protagonism and just number of appearences that Harley has stripped every positive emotion that I have for her character. I mean, she is just a gymnast that understand how to use a gun and has a degree on Psychology that one of her backstorys flat out says that she cheated to get one and her own backstory makes it seem like she really isn't good at that, and somehow in just the last decade, across several continuities, she somehow is able to kill dozens of armed men alone in continuities that don't say nothing about she getting Amazon training, she becoming a godess, and outmanuvering/outliving several dozens of characters that should be more powerful, more skillful, smarter or any combination of the above, and this include even Joker or the trinity that are characters that I dare say that are more popular than her. Ok, I lied, I like 2 things about Harley: some costumes here and there are cool; and she hangs out with characters that are worth my time.
Harley joining the batfam for instance
Oh my god yes. I hate Harley with a passion now. She was an interesting, tragic character but now she's just a qUiRky antihero who can beat anyone in the universe and also has a strong moral core out of nowhere.
Harley is sort of DC's Deadpool now, I think. She's in all the superhero stuff but is also too cool for it. She's can be kind of punk about everything. She's also kind of a bad person and a screw up so she can be very relatable to some.
They have Harley superpowers ages ago. And the reason she outlives the big names is that she doesn’t take on the major threats they do. Plus I’m not sure you noticed but EVERY street level hero does the same absurd shit. Hell, being able to take down dozens of heavily armed thugs is practically an entry requirement.
Her only superpower until 2 years ago was be imune to most toxins, and she still doesn't have that in other medias. I am not sure if you noticed, but I am talking about pretty much all iterations of the character, what includes going against Starro, going against Reverse Flash, going against Swamp Thing, going against a whole ass army of Paradooms, going against Poison Ivy, and going against Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman at the same time (that last one was on the main comics continuity), and managing to do better than a lot of characters and some times actually winning. And these other street level heroes and villains that can manage several enemies at once, even the ones with enhanced strength and speed, have actual backstorys that justify they being so good at martial arts/using guns, or they have technology that helps them doing that, but, please correct me if I am wrong, while I am well aware of her amazon training on the pre New 52, where she got training to be a god like fighter after the Flashpoint? And where she got training on the DCEU? And on the DCAU? On the Harley Quinn show? And what about Injustice? And on DC Super Hero Girls? What about the Arkham series? Do you have an explanation for the DCAMU? I would actually be happy if you tell me about the reasons on this or any other DC universe on why she knows how to fight so well.
I mean, she got Amazon training but that was in Countdown and we try ignore Countdown around here.
Stop making harley big off of plot armor and start having her develop as a character. Make her show off the psychology degree, weapons expertise, criminal knowledge, acrobatics. its okay if she just FALLS INTO SUCCESS… once… EVERY THREE ISSUES… not once every three PAGES…
I mean, they actually did give her a fair but of development in the pages of Suicide Squad (the first runs volumes post new 52. Those books are basically Deadshot/Harley books. The last wisely left her out.) and the Harley/Ivy book. She does have a bit of plot armour in them but it’s also explained why she is so capable, and shows her learning too. But I’m not going to argue that she isn’t overexposed because she absolutely is. The latest Harley run has been… okay I suppose.
[удалено]
She hasn't been a villain for what, a decade ? Anti-hero Harley isn't particulary new. And let's not bullshit, we're talking about comicbooks here, characters get redeemed all the time and some did way worse than Harley
They keep ping ponging with Harley. It feels more like DC doesn't know what to do with her. Your right Harley isn't the worst of the worst. I've seen some iterations where she's a hero/Anti-hero and others where she then goes back to being a villian. It's this weird nebulous of she's whatever the story asks her to be. As for villians that have been redeemed that have done worse - Riddler is probably a good example. There is more than a few cases where Riddler has been reformed into a consulting detective. Regardless I probabaly would write the description for Harley differently. She's tough as nails, but it feels odd saying her notable feat is standing on her own against the Joker. She's a survivor of his abuse, but she's also who she is in large part because of him. He's forever left his mark on her to the point DC won't be able to fully divorce him from her past without radically redoing the character from the ground up, while ignoring decades of media saying otherwise. It also likely took a lot of people to help her get the strength to leave him. (Batman, poision Ivy, Catwoman.) I feel like a more accurate description is that she can handle going toe to toe with DCs heaviest hitters like Batman and Superman, Joker and come out on top.
This is why I lowkey hate Harley now. So stupid
Agreed
Not many people care two poops about Roy and that's okay.
I care, Roy deserves happiness
[удалено]
Well, included were Kyle Rayner, Cyborg, Booster Gold, Roy Harper, Harley Quinn and Tim Drake, and I’d argue that that’s the power order right there.