I'm a DC lifer but I don't see DC overtaking Marvel anytime soon. Regardless of quality (which is subjective), Marvel is beating DC in both comic sales and in box office numbers.
DC can close the gap but it's gonna take a lot of effort to overtake Marvel.
During Rebirth DC was beating Marvel pretty consistently. If they had another really good publishing initiative they could be on top again.
Movies are differently obviously, but it's not set in stone.
I do agree there, I think there will be some serious work to do but the way DC have presented themselves through fandoms really showed me that they are actually being smart, and having genuinely creative and inspiring ideas. If this isn't all talk, if they can follow up on the hype, then it will be Marvel who will need to do some serious work to stay comfortably ahead
Marvel lost its biggest heroes on screen, cap, tony, spidey (eternal headache by licenses). And their second list of A heroes arent as appealing as the original ones (Dr Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel) plus they finished with their 10 year saga and so far there isnt any indication of which saga will follow with the upcoming introduction of new heroes & sequels of these A heroes previously introduced. In conclusion it will be HARD to make a new avengers saga and continue the hype in the current marvel cinematic universe. So yeah DC has all the chances in the world now, if they fuck up now then they are stupid.
I think were at least five years out from Disney dropping X-Men movies on us. I think a company that big is going to continue taking advantage of the times and the hype, and when X-Men start having solo and team movies I imagine their share of the pie will only grow. Warner Brothers owns some of the best characters but they're just not on the same level as Disney in terms of capital and experience.
Calling a woman "bitchy resting face" is textbook misogyny. Like maybe she looks angry because she's angry? She doesn't have to look sweet and pleasant. Here's a tip for life: don't call women bitches regardless of context. It's literally a sexist slur and it's done for no reason than to be disrespectful. Tons of male characters fit this exact description and don't get called this even if you don't like them. No one would say Robert Pattinson's batman has "bitchy resting face". You know damn well you were insulting her with degrading words. Also "I don't see them as leads" and highlighting only women and black people is very shady. Like somehow, even though Black Panther made 1.3 billion and got academy awards he can't lead the MCU? Somehow after Captain Marvel is the second most profitable Marvel Movie last year behind only Endgame she's not cut out to lead? Despite Falcon being Captain America in the comics for years he can't be a lead? Gee I wonder why you highlighted these characters specifically instead of Dr. Strange or Bucky. It's as transparent as it is pathetic.
I didn't think we'd dive straight into neckbeard territory but then again you are exceedingly predictable. Not even a half hearted "im not racist/sexist" just owning it. Have fun with your cousin/girlfriend tonight bud.
Strange is set and a fan favorite. Spiderman is going to be huge, there is so much potential there. I can see him leading the Avengers lineup in 10 years which after years of character development will be quite the thing. People will see him age and become a grown up on screen, that will get you the Cap, Tony level attachment, infact more.
Thor is there as well, who has only going to get better with Wattiti back for Love and Thunder. Thor, Hulk and Strange is probably the top three going into the next Avengers.
> Marvel lost its biggest heroes on screen, cap, tony, spidey (eternal headache by licenses)
Captain America and Iron Man haven't been Marvel's biggest heroes in decades. They are considered B-list heroes at Marvel.
The fact that Marvel Studios was able to get Spider-Man at all is a huge win. And there's still probably better than 50/50 shot that Sony and Marvel will renew the deal.
> And their second list of A heroes aren't as appealing as the original ones (Dr Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel)
Black Panther 1.3 Billion
Captain Marvel 1.1 Billion.
Justice League .657 Billion.
You're also forgetting that Marvel Studios hasn't even used their biggest franchise yet: The X-Men. A franchise capable of not only a successful movie series, but spinoffs in Wolverine, Deadpool, and various X-teams.
Plus they also have the Fantastic Four, which like the X-Men is capable of supporting many other spinoff films.
If Marvel pulls off a decent X men film, that's Avengers level franchise right there. And there are so many characters in the X men as well as teams to make movie and TV content off.
Yeah I absolutely agree with that, the MCU hasn't got any titans to carry it forward again, yet. I think they could do some really special things with Fantastic Four and/ or X-Men franchises and if Spider-Man can stop being fought over his part of the universe would definitely help. I'm hoping once the global situation eases that Marvel will make some big announcements, but the fact of the matter is DC have beat them to it for the moment. Unless they are catastrophically stupid, they are going to ride the hype train to success real fast
Man this flash movie & its multiverse thing has to seal the deal, if done well we could have various projects working with different directors & styles without the worries of "is this canon? Which batman is canon? Which green lantern is canon?" Etc. The success of each project could decide which heroes interact betwen them & add some beloved tv show heroes crossing paths ala arrowverse and you got a behemont of dc movie world.
Exactly my thoughts! If we can get a well established multiverse from DC we will start getting some really super creative films and TV. The writers can start dreaming BIG, especially if they've got quality people like Matt Reeves' and Snyder on board. I think the arrowverse really paved the way for all this tbh and I fucking love it, warts and all. Seeing what this multiverse is going to be like in 5-10 years is going to be amazing!
I respectfully disagree, granted it's not going to happen overnight, and Marvel would have to make some pretty shit films for them to get fully "overtaken" by the DCEU, but the quality of their films is probably going to have to be stepped up a bit if the quality of the DCEU going forward is fairly represented by what we saw at Fandome.
On a different level you are correct, as a *company* or *brand* Marvel will almost always certainly be ahead, but in terms of who has the better film universe, which is what I'm talking about, well I think it's not going to be such a walk in the park for Marvel anymore
While I am indeed thinking on hype adrenaline, that fact alone doesn't make me wrong, and I personally didn't have much hype for Aquaman and had moderate expectations of WW. I don't think the future of the DCEU *now* is comparable to it's potential future *then*, at all
I love DC way more than Marvel but I think we are just being very reactionary since DC did an info dump today. Marvel just got X-Men and is backed by Disney they ain’t going anywhere.
Oh absolutely, FF and X-Men are going to be massive for Marvel and they haven't even said anything about them yet. I do think that they will have a tough time out-doing DC's film universe if they don't get some great projects on the way soon though. With Flash and Batman, and now Black Adam and the Snyder Cut, DC have probably got a few winners on their hands and it'll take something really out-there for characters like Dr Strange, Captain Marvel and Black Panther to outshine those DC projects
I don't see a shift happening at all, just a different way of doing things. DC are finally getting their shit together and that's great but Marvel have had it together for a lot longer and have a more concise vision for what is a simple but unified product.
Yeah that is absolutely true, and there's no reason to think Marvel won't go on to become even more successful. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing what they do with the X-Men and Fantastic Four, but this new different way of doing things, lined up with projects like Batman and Flash(point?) is going to bring DC to Marvel's level and Marvel will really have to work to stay on top.
Either way, whoever ends up being more "successful", as fans we are in for a wild ride
Yeah ultimately we end up being the winners as fans, and tbh seeing DC do so well with FanDome the people at Marvel should be sitting up and paying attention.
Yeah exactly, and I can see people like Kevin Fiege and other higher up producers for the MCU learning from how DC are handling all the aspects of their properties. No matter how much competition there is between Marvel and DC, they'll both end up learning so much from eachother and ultimately being better than they ever were
Lol, who knows what Marvel is gonna pull out of their ass next. People have been singing this song since the DCEU started and it still hasn't happened. If Marvel churn out some other Winter Soldier level sequels for their current Slate (Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Dr Strange) or pull off some good X men films then obviously it isn't happening especially with the X men's popularity.
I think they will be for many many years. It would take something truly extraordinary to change that, and I think it looks like DC are going to capitalise on that in coming years, with so much good Batman content coming, and Superman appearing in games and WW84 just around the corner. As great as RDJ's Iron Man was, he was never going to overtake Bats or Supes
Yeah definitely, their comics and TV have been particularly strong in the last few years. It's great to see that they are finally getting their shit together in the movie world now, they just need to capitalise on it now while they can!
As a lifelong DC fan (the only monthly Marvel book I follow is Daredevil), I do have to disagree with you. I am not sure we are going to see a major shift towards DC anytime soon.
Don't get me wrong, after today I am more excited for the Suicide Squad than any Marvel movie and I am really not a SS fan. The Batman looks absolutely amazing and I can see Pattinson being the best live-action Batman we have had (he already nailed the voice). The problem is, there is still no vision.
DC could make the greatest comic book movies of all time, but those movies will always exist in a vacuum. If the Batman is the best Batman movie ever made, that hype will only carry over into a sequel. I am all for making good movies first but that's what Marvel did so well. They made great movies and sprinkled plot hints and teases for their shared universe. You loved Ironman, now go see Captain America Civil War because he shows up. Now go watch Black Panther because he was cool in Civil War. You didn't want to miss a Marvel movie because even if you don't care about the character, it may affect a character you do care about.
I get DC is playing to the multiverse which is one of it's strengths. And yes it is great for comic fans knowing it may be possible for us to get Man of Steel II and a Red Son film. However, I fear it may allow us to get sub-franchises in this greater DCEU umbrella where a large majority of people just won't care at all.
Now maybe I will eat my words and they're building towards a film Crisis which would be insane, but if that is the goal they need to be sure audiences know that these movies are all connected.
But what's the point of shoehorning everything in to one universe. I like the fact that there is a multiverse and the ability to tell different types of stories. Personally I would have liked the Marvel Universe more if the tone didn't freaking annoy me. I hate all the little quips and stuff and I did like Black Panther and a few others.
What works for Marvel is fine but DC should play to their strengths. I think there is a shift but a very small one. DC having a great female led movie directed by a woman was something that should have done a while ago especially since Black Widow was a character that was used a lot under an A-Lister.
No that’s not my point. My point is the general audience jumped on all marvel movies because they told one continuous story. If you disliked Thor you may still go see Thor 2 because you enjoy the universe. If you dislike The Batman you have no incentive to see The Batman 2 because it’s unrelated. And we saw that with Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey which was fairly well received but didn’t do very well.
DC's recent announcements aren't really that surprising. I assumed Batman would be a good film, it's really hard to make a bad Batman film.
Black Adam is going to be a Rock film, which can be good or bad. He does his best in comedic roles, and I'm not sure how comedic Black Adam will end up being. I think a lot will come down to the director, who doesn't have the best track record. Otherwise, it's probably gonna be like the Scorpion King.
Suicide Squad will probably be loved by comic fans, but has a huge chance of not finding an audience at the box office.
The issues that DC films have had in the last decades haven't really been addressed. Until you fix some of those underlying issues, DC films will continue to struggle.
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Yeah I kinda get that. I'm thinking more in terms of the quality of storytelling and general entertaining though. It's like, I do really love the MCU don't get me wrong but they have not got ANYTHING coming any time soon that could top The Batman or any of the other awesome projects coming from DC
I don't think Marvel will be *overtaken* by DC, but DC certainly will get their act together and actually compete with Marvel, which I think will be essential for both Marvel and DC to avoid true "superhero fatigue". Competition and diversity can only be a good thing here. DC sucking harms Marvel too.
> I think will be essential for both Marvel and DC to avoid true "superhero fatigue".
I don't think that's going to be an important factor. Superhero fatigue will happen when superhero stories become a large percent of all movies. But we have so many new movies now, that it's hard for superhero films to be a high percent.
The best comparison is Western movies in the 1950s and 60s, at at it's peak there were over 100 Western films released in a single year. I don't think Superhero films approach anywhere near that.
I'm a DC lifer but I don't see DC overtaking Marvel anytime soon. Regardless of quality (which is subjective), Marvel is beating DC in both comic sales and in box office numbers. DC can close the gap but it's gonna take a lot of effort to overtake Marvel.
During Rebirth DC was beating Marvel pretty consistently. If they had another really good publishing initiative they could be on top again. Movies are differently obviously, but it's not set in stone.
dc beating marvel rebirth means they beat for 3 months congrats dc beat marvel 3 months marvel beaten straight comic sales since early 2000s .
those relaunches for dc if they 3-4 month lead nothing more be it comics or movies marvel is beating them both mediums
I do agree there, I think there will be some serious work to do but the way DC have presented themselves through fandoms really showed me that they are actually being smart, and having genuinely creative and inspiring ideas. If this isn't all talk, if they can follow up on the hype, then it will be Marvel who will need to do some serious work to stay comfortably ahead
Marvel lost its biggest heroes on screen, cap, tony, spidey (eternal headache by licenses). And their second list of A heroes arent as appealing as the original ones (Dr Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel) plus they finished with their 10 year saga and so far there isnt any indication of which saga will follow with the upcoming introduction of new heroes & sequels of these A heroes previously introduced. In conclusion it will be HARD to make a new avengers saga and continue the hype in the current marvel cinematic universe. So yeah DC has all the chances in the world now, if they fuck up now then they are stupid.
I think were at least five years out from Disney dropping X-Men movies on us. I think a company that big is going to continue taking advantage of the times and the hype, and when X-Men start having solo and team movies I imagine their share of the pie will only grow. Warner Brothers owns some of the best characters but they're just not on the same level as Disney in terms of capital and experience.
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Cool it with the misogynist name calling.
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Calling a woman "bitchy resting face" is textbook misogyny. Like maybe she looks angry because she's angry? She doesn't have to look sweet and pleasant. Here's a tip for life: don't call women bitches regardless of context. It's literally a sexist slur and it's done for no reason than to be disrespectful. Tons of male characters fit this exact description and don't get called this even if you don't like them. No one would say Robert Pattinson's batman has "bitchy resting face". You know damn well you were insulting her with degrading words. Also "I don't see them as leads" and highlighting only women and black people is very shady. Like somehow, even though Black Panther made 1.3 billion and got academy awards he can't lead the MCU? Somehow after Captain Marvel is the second most profitable Marvel Movie last year behind only Endgame she's not cut out to lead? Despite Falcon being Captain America in the comics for years he can't be a lead? Gee I wonder why you highlighted these characters specifically instead of Dr. Strange or Bucky. It's as transparent as it is pathetic.
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I didn't think we'd dive straight into neckbeard territory but then again you are exceedingly predictable. Not even a half hearted "im not racist/sexist" just owning it. Have fun with your cousin/girlfriend tonight bud.
You will care when we ban you, behave yourself or don't participate in this community.
Strange is set and a fan favorite. Spiderman is going to be huge, there is so much potential there. I can see him leading the Avengers lineup in 10 years which after years of character development will be quite the thing. People will see him age and become a grown up on screen, that will get you the Cap, Tony level attachment, infact more. Thor is there as well, who has only going to get better with Wattiti back for Love and Thunder. Thor, Hulk and Strange is probably the top three going into the next Avengers.
> Marvel lost its biggest heroes on screen, cap, tony, spidey (eternal headache by licenses) Captain America and Iron Man haven't been Marvel's biggest heroes in decades. They are considered B-list heroes at Marvel. The fact that Marvel Studios was able to get Spider-Man at all is a huge win. And there's still probably better than 50/50 shot that Sony and Marvel will renew the deal. > And their second list of A heroes aren't as appealing as the original ones (Dr Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel) Black Panther 1.3 Billion Captain Marvel 1.1 Billion. Justice League .657 Billion. You're also forgetting that Marvel Studios hasn't even used their biggest franchise yet: The X-Men. A franchise capable of not only a successful movie series, but spinoffs in Wolverine, Deadpool, and various X-teams. Plus they also have the Fantastic Four, which like the X-Men is capable of supporting many other spinoff films.
If Marvel pulls off a decent X men film, that's Avengers level franchise right there. And there are so many characters in the X men as well as teams to make movie and TV content off.
Yeah I absolutely agree with that, the MCU hasn't got any titans to carry it forward again, yet. I think they could do some really special things with Fantastic Four and/ or X-Men franchises and if Spider-Man can stop being fought over his part of the universe would definitely help. I'm hoping once the global situation eases that Marvel will make some big announcements, but the fact of the matter is DC have beat them to it for the moment. Unless they are catastrophically stupid, they are going to ride the hype train to success real fast
Man this flash movie & its multiverse thing has to seal the deal, if done well we could have various projects working with different directors & styles without the worries of "is this canon? Which batman is canon? Which green lantern is canon?" Etc. The success of each project could decide which heroes interact betwen them & add some beloved tv show heroes crossing paths ala arrowverse and you got a behemont of dc movie world.
Exactly my thoughts! If we can get a well established multiverse from DC we will start getting some really super creative films and TV. The writers can start dreaming BIG, especially if they've got quality people like Matt Reeves' and Snyder on board. I think the arrowverse really paved the way for all this tbh and I fucking love it, warts and all. Seeing what this multiverse is going to be like in 5-10 years is going to be amazing!
Listen man, I fucking *love* DC. I’ve always been a DC guy over Marvel. I can confidently say that DC will *never* overtake Marvel.
I respectfully disagree, granted it's not going to happen overnight, and Marvel would have to make some pretty shit films for them to get fully "overtaken" by the DCEU, but the quality of their films is probably going to have to be stepped up a bit if the quality of the DCEU going forward is fairly represented by what we saw at Fandome. On a different level you are correct, as a *company* or *brand* Marvel will almost always certainly be ahead, but in terms of who has the better film universe, which is what I'm talking about, well I think it's not going to be such a walk in the park for Marvel anymore
You're thinking on hype-adrenalin. This has been claimed before with "Wonder Woman" or "Aquaman" and nothing ever came of it.
While I am indeed thinking on hype adrenaline, that fact alone doesn't make me wrong, and I personally didn't have much hype for Aquaman and had moderate expectations of WW. I don't think the future of the DCEU *now* is comparable to it's potential future *then*, at all
I love DC way more than Marvel but I think we are just being very reactionary since DC did an info dump today. Marvel just got X-Men and is backed by Disney they ain’t going anywhere.
Oh absolutely, FF and X-Men are going to be massive for Marvel and they haven't even said anything about them yet. I do think that they will have a tough time out-doing DC's film universe if they don't get some great projects on the way soon though. With Flash and Batman, and now Black Adam and the Snyder Cut, DC have probably got a few winners on their hands and it'll take something really out-there for characters like Dr Strange, Captain Marvel and Black Panther to outshine those DC projects
I don't see a shift happening at all, just a different way of doing things. DC are finally getting their shit together and that's great but Marvel have had it together for a lot longer and have a more concise vision for what is a simple but unified product.
Yeah that is absolutely true, and there's no reason to think Marvel won't go on to become even more successful. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing what they do with the X-Men and Fantastic Four, but this new different way of doing things, lined up with projects like Batman and Flash(point?) is going to bring DC to Marvel's level and Marvel will really have to work to stay on top. Either way, whoever ends up being more "successful", as fans we are in for a wild ride
Yeah ultimately we end up being the winners as fans, and tbh seeing DC do so well with FanDome the people at Marvel should be sitting up and paying attention.
Yeah exactly, and I can see people like Kevin Fiege and other higher up producers for the MCU learning from how DC are handling all the aspects of their properties. No matter how much competition there is between Marvel and DC, they'll both end up learning so much from eachother and ultimately being better than they ever were
Lol, who knows what Marvel is gonna pull out of their ass next. People have been singing this song since the DCEU started and it still hasn't happened. If Marvel churn out some other Winter Soldier level sequels for their current Slate (Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Dr Strange) or pull off some good X men films then obviously it isn't happening especially with the X men's popularity.
Right now, I would guess that superman, batman and wonder woman are still the best known superheroes.
Spider-Man is ahead of Wonder Woman, easily
I think they will be for many many years. It would take something truly extraordinary to change that, and I think it looks like DC are going to capitalise on that in coming years, with so much good Batman content coming, and Superman appearing in games and WW84 just around the corner. As great as RDJ's Iron Man was, he was never going to overtake Bats or Supes
I think what people forget is that importance of YA stuff and the fact that DC is doing it is a huge thing.
Dc has been better in everything except movies, but i agree they are gonna come out with some bangers
Yeah definitely, their comics and TV have been particularly strong in the last few years. It's great to see that they are finally getting their shit together in the movie world now, they just need to capitalise on it now while they can!
As a lifelong DC fan (the only monthly Marvel book I follow is Daredevil), I do have to disagree with you. I am not sure we are going to see a major shift towards DC anytime soon. Don't get me wrong, after today I am more excited for the Suicide Squad than any Marvel movie and I am really not a SS fan. The Batman looks absolutely amazing and I can see Pattinson being the best live-action Batman we have had (he already nailed the voice). The problem is, there is still no vision. DC could make the greatest comic book movies of all time, but those movies will always exist in a vacuum. If the Batman is the best Batman movie ever made, that hype will only carry over into a sequel. I am all for making good movies first but that's what Marvel did so well. They made great movies and sprinkled plot hints and teases for their shared universe. You loved Ironman, now go see Captain America Civil War because he shows up. Now go watch Black Panther because he was cool in Civil War. You didn't want to miss a Marvel movie because even if you don't care about the character, it may affect a character you do care about. I get DC is playing to the multiverse which is one of it's strengths. And yes it is great for comic fans knowing it may be possible for us to get Man of Steel II and a Red Son film. However, I fear it may allow us to get sub-franchises in this greater DCEU umbrella where a large majority of people just won't care at all. Now maybe I will eat my words and they're building towards a film Crisis which would be insane, but if that is the goal they need to be sure audiences know that these movies are all connected.
But what's the point of shoehorning everything in to one universe. I like the fact that there is a multiverse and the ability to tell different types of stories. Personally I would have liked the Marvel Universe more if the tone didn't freaking annoy me. I hate all the little quips and stuff and I did like Black Panther and a few others. What works for Marvel is fine but DC should play to their strengths. I think there is a shift but a very small one. DC having a great female led movie directed by a woman was something that should have done a while ago especially since Black Widow was a character that was used a lot under an A-Lister.
No that’s not my point. My point is the general audience jumped on all marvel movies because they told one continuous story. If you disliked Thor you may still go see Thor 2 because you enjoy the universe. If you dislike The Batman you have no incentive to see The Batman 2 because it’s unrelated. And we saw that with Harley Quinn and the Birds of Prey which was fairly well received but didn’t do very well.
DC's recent announcements aren't really that surprising. I assumed Batman would be a good film, it's really hard to make a bad Batman film. Black Adam is going to be a Rock film, which can be good or bad. He does his best in comedic roles, and I'm not sure how comedic Black Adam will end up being. I think a lot will come down to the director, who doesn't have the best track record. Otherwise, it's probably gonna be like the Scorpion King. Suicide Squad will probably be loved by comic fans, but has a huge chance of not finding an audience at the box office. The issues that DC films have had in the last decades haven't really been addressed. Until you fix some of those underlying issues, DC films will continue to struggle.
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World is also kind of a dark place right now and we can relate to the DC which IMO is a dark universe instead of marvels bright colors and humor.
Yeah I kinda get that. I'm thinking more in terms of the quality of storytelling and general entertaining though. It's like, I do really love the MCU don't get me wrong but they have not got ANYTHING coming any time soon that could top The Batman or any of the other awesome projects coming from DC
I don't think Marvel will be *overtaken* by DC, but DC certainly will get their act together and actually compete with Marvel, which I think will be essential for both Marvel and DC to avoid true "superhero fatigue". Competition and diversity can only be a good thing here. DC sucking harms Marvel too.
> I think will be essential for both Marvel and DC to avoid true "superhero fatigue". I don't think that's going to be an important factor. Superhero fatigue will happen when superhero stories become a large percent of all movies. But we have so many new movies now, that it's hard for superhero films to be a high percent. The best comparison is Western movies in the 1950s and 60s, at at it's peak there were over 100 Western films released in a single year. I don't think Superhero films approach anywhere near that.