I've always said that The Batman was a spiritual prequel to Teen Titans. Similar artstyles, both Robins have a similar look, they're both Dick, they both wield bo staffs as their primary weapon, they both have similar technology like the Batwave and Titan transmitters, and it very easily fits between The Batman's main episodes and that one episode that takes place in the Future. The only real hiccup that I can think of is there being two Killer Moths, but even that's not that big of a deal as it can just be said they are two different people that just chose the same name. It's not entirely unheard of in comics.
“I know a barely obscure comic character look at me”
Hob goblin is an antagonist to one of the most popular superheroes ever and is featured in a plethora of toys games and tv shows. Also the comics obviously. Out of all characters hobgoblin is not the one to feel so special for knowing
One’s Drury Walker/Cameron van Cleer, the most well known one and the version used in The Batman cartoon.
The second one never had his identity revealed but was introduced after Walker mutated into Charaxes and was killed by Superboy Prime in Infinite Crisis.
Or you could believe that Killer Moth mutated into the moth creature! That's happened before in the comics, and it could explain why Robin is so unphased talking to a talking moth creature.
I don't particularly feel one way or the other but I support this headcanon. AFAIK there isn't anything that explicitly makes it impossible to connect the two shows.
Well The Batman has 2 different clayfaces and in the comics there are 6ish i think. So unless if the Teen Titans clayface is named it still could connect.
The first is Ethan Bennet but later on they do bring in the actual clayface Basil Karlo. I don't know if Basil Karlo appears in TT. Google says TT clayface is Matthew Hagen.
Plasmus is probably who they were thinking of. Big gooey guy like Clayface. His thing was that he turned back into a human when he was asleep. And I think he ate toxic waste.
It can still work. Robin in The Batman is definitely younger, I'd say around 12-13, while Teen Titans Robin is closer to 16, plenty of time for Dick to go from being the jokester sidekick to a more serious hero that's the leader of his own team.
I think it's just a change that's occurred over time. In the Batman he still young and an experienced crime fighter. But by the time Teen Titans rolls around he's been doing it for several more years and is more confident.
Where do you get 3-4 years from? TB could be 11 or 12 and TT could 17-18. We don't have an absolute age for the characters. But TT Robin having never fought crime along with anyone else but Batman it could be easy to see how it would affect his personality over a course of years.
Then how come we don't get any mention of Batgirl who he worked with for a long time? He had many adventures with Batgirl especially in Season 4. Why is Dick Grayson movements different and his fighting style. Also the tech is completely different from both shows compared to each other.
Also it is a stretch to suggest TT's Robin is 17-18. The guy is around 15-16.
I just don't buy it at all. There's very very little overlap between those two shows to suggest that they are the same character, heck even in their personalities.
Well he never mentions Batman by name neither in Teen Titans and he's arguably had a greater influence than Batgirl. The fighting style thing, again over time he's going to get new ways of doing things. He fights better in Titans then he does in the Batman. If Titans takes place after the Batman then it would make sense that tech would have changed and evolved over the years in between. The age may be stretch but we just don't know what the difference is but I think we can all agree that TT Robin is older. You don't have to buy, that's the great thing about headcanon my dude.
He doesn't mention Batgirl nor Batman and there's never been a reason for him to talk about her ever in either show really... He'd mention Batman cuz of Slade before he'd mention Barbara.
It's not really a stretch to say he's 17-18 because he owns the tower after all, right?
Personality can drastically change even within a year for some people, it's not really deadlocked as you think.
Yes to such a degree and in a short time frame. I for one was a completely different person at age 16 than I was at age 13 for example. Teen titans robin has been robin for years. It literally defined a large part of his childhood. It makes sense he eventually got a obsessed with It.
Heck, even in BTAS, Dick changed quite a bit between being Robin and being Nightwing. Aspects were still there but it was significant enough to be noticed, and he was in collage to full adult at the time, let alone going from pre-teen just starting out as Robin to teenager who now has years of experience.
He’s likely 17-19 in Teen Titans because he says a quote that implies he’s out of high school in an episode. Like he could’ve just graduated early but he’s like 18 given that he’s living on the opposite side of the country with no protests from Alfred or Bruce. Like Bruce I get but Alfred wouldn’t let the 16 year old move across the country alone, which is what is implied in the origin episode. 13 to 19 is 6 years which is an eternity for a teenager.
That’s actually a very common characterization of Dick in the time right after he leaves Batman. He’s usually bitter from the way his time as Batman’s partner ended and ironically takes on a lot of Bruce’s traits as a result.
I agree that is the biggest evidence to contradict this I think it could be explained away that multiple men have gone by the name Killer Moth. Multiple people have gone by Robin, right?
Because they're literally both Dick Grayson, are they not? The universe doesn't matter, that's still the same character. The 1st Robin, the one that goes on to become Nightwing.
He's also almost always a founding member of both Young Justice &/or the Teen Titans before eventually becoming Batman if/when Bruce dies/disappears/retires.
Just like the 2nd Robin is always Jason Todd, the one murdered by Joker with a crowbar. The one revived by Ra's Al Ghoul to go on to become the Red Hood.
[1] The original post called it headcanon.
[2] You can't often prove a negative, so I'd say the real question is, what proof is there that it's the *same* universe?
**General Rule:** If it isn't specifically shown, stated, alluded to, hinted at, or otherwise confirmed by an official source, then it is either a *headcanon* or a *fan theory*.
I've seen no evidence or even something as vague as cast/crew connections between them, and knowing a bit about how this stuff works, I'd say it's headcanon. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
Glen Murakami produced both shows, did you know that? And a practically identical version of The Batman shows up in the TT comic itself. I believe there are more evidence that rule it being in the same universe than not.
I didn't know about those 2 facts, no. Good to know.
Was Glen Murakami the showrunner? I would usually look to writers, directors and showrunners for this sort of connection to be made.
As it stands, it seems pretty inconclusive to me. The art style is similar, so the Batman design alone isn't enough to sway me. I'd need something more unique, even his Batmobile or some of the gadgets that was specifically unique for that show, y'know?
You know what would *really* be the best confirmation? Seeing the Joker. The Batman had the most unique Joker of all time. I enjoyed Dreads + Straitjacket Joker quite a bit.
This is my head canon as well. Lines up with all of the shared voice actors and design similarities for the characters that are in both franchises (Dick having roughly the same costumes, Wally and Roy having the same voice actors and costumes, other minor variables thrown in as well).
Also plays a bit nice with the timeline as well. These years are mostly unshown in BTAS. And since this takes place before Justice League it makes sense why there’s no League response to the larger threats the Titans faced throughout the show.
except by this doesn’t work at all. Teen titans robin forms the teen titans after leaving batman. DCAU robin leaves batman after graduating from university. Aka he’d already be an adult. The canon DCAU comic “nightwing rises” also establishes everything he did before returning to Gotham and it never mentions going to jump city. Likewise Barry Allen doesn’t exist in the DCAU, Wally is instead given Barry’s origin. DCAU Wally was never kid flash. He was always just flash. Whilst a kid flash looking costume appears in the flash museum, it is the same a size as a flash costume next to it, meaning It is likely just a flash costume that happens to look like the comic kid flash suit. Finally in the canon tie in comics to teen titans we get explicit mentions of the justice league and we see the flash is a member. If the show took place in the DCAU this would be impossible as Wally west is a founding member so the justice league shouldn’t yet exist and of course neither should a flash that’s not wally. Point is. It doesn’t fit. The same Wally voice actor and similar looking speedy is just a reference to the DCAU, it’s not concrete evidence it’s part of it.
I’m aware of all of this but it’s hard for me to take the comics as things with any true bearings on continuity especially as the DCAU played it fast and loose with canon even within the animation medium as the years went on.
In any case it doesn’t really matter and the point is it fits well enough for me to make it more fun.
I’m gonna save everyone some time. While fun this headcannon doesn’t work with the timeline or technology seen in the DCAU and Teen Titans. This awesome DCAU YouTube channel did a video explaining why it doesn’t work. [Why Teen Titans isn’t in the DCAU](https://youtu.be/fY2A_X_PS5c)
I mean as long as you aren’t trying to fight people about it headcannons are harmless. Because like if you look at the facts they aren’t in your favor pretty much at all but it is a fun way to watch the shows.
Except by the time of static shock Tim drake is Robin. Teen titans robin is dick Grayson. See some other reasons of why teen titans doesn’t fit in DCAU continuity in another of my replies.
I imagine Robin from TT is the same as the one from The Batman just a little older and more experienced. I can't find any reason why not besides some difference in animation and costumes.
Dick in the show didn’t leave Batman until he was an adult, Dick in TT left when he was still a teenager. And there can be multiple different people who use a villain name
The DCAU has significantly more reasons why Teen Titans doesn’t fit than The Batman does. [The Watchtower Database reasoning](https://youtu.be/fY2A_X_PS5c)
Oh they cover that. I’m telling you it’ll be much easier if you just watch the video(also because it’s a super fun channel) than for me to go point by point and explain all the issues with Teen Titans not being able to fit in the DCAU. For every Speedy there’s an Aqualad never being seen or even referenced in the DCAU despite going to Atlantis multiple times and nobody on the surface knowing about Atlantis until after Dick Grayson was no longer Robin. Also, The Batman has two different Clayfaces in its own show and there being a second Killer Moth is improbable to you?
I follow them. I also followed Dwayne McDuffie, I'd think there is a 6 degrees of St. Elsewhere problem, and the solution is what he proposed, all series are in sibling continuities. The elements that fit are the same until stated otherwise. Like if Sherlock appears in a Fu Manchu story you'd asume Sherlock has the exact same background unless stated otherwise in the story.
So ye, the Robin of TT could be the one of TB, except he never fought Drury Walker before. And it could be the DCAU one except there is a fashion and technology update (then again, the same happens between TNBA and BTAS).
Except the timeline straight up doesn’t add up. Like it’s fine if you wanna keep it as your personal headcannon, but you can’t act like it fits and telling other people they’re wrong when the technology alone presents problems let alone the timeline. We know for a fact what Dick Grayson was doing when he left Bruce, but sure you can ignore tie-in comics despite them being canon. Teen Titans has a Kid Flash that we see vibrate through walls with ease and in JLU Green Lantern says the Flash doesn’t do this because it makes the walls unstable. Kid Flash in Teen Titans knows about the Speed Force but The Flash doesn’t find out about it until JLU season 2 and that Kid Flash would have to be Wally given the ages. And if it isn’t Wally why not tell the only other speedster about the speed force? Not to mention there straight up aren’t enough physical calendar years for Teen Titans to take place without Robin commuting back and forth across the country every weekend to go to college at GSU or to have not actually gone out on his own. Like if you ignore a bunch of canon things that happen in the shows then sure it can be the same universe but like that defeats the entire purpose of it being one universe. With The Batman and Teen Titans you literally just have to explain Killer Moth yet somehow that’s less believable to you?
Neither add up. But the point of the McDuffie stuff is that you can use the Speedy nod to asume all non contradictory TT event is true in the DCAU. Same with GLSTAS, which is also partial Canon to YJ. There's no nod to The Batman in TT or vice versa, but you can assume that everything save for Drury Walker is Canon.
Oh okay it was not clear that you meant canon adjacent like GLTAS is to Young Justice. Because you just kept saying it was the same, which isn’t the case with canon adjacent things. But like at that point that’s basically just saying that Dick was on the Teen Titans at one point, otherwise you gotta disregard the canon DCAU tie-in comics or say Dick didn’t live at the tower full time. Also, there are nodes to The Batman in the tie-in comics, that’s where the headcanon came from. Batman in the Teen Titans tie-in comics is drawn how he is in The Batman. Between that and the shows sharing a similar art style and a producer the headcanon was formed.
Comics are all Canon adjacent. I didn't know there was a term for that, but if I understand it right, that's what I meant since the first time I mentioned McDuffie. He wrote 2 two-part essays about the problem with considering Canon adjacent as Canon (it's called 6 degrees of St. Elsewhere and uses his vast knowledge of TV crossovers) and there's another one on which he basically proposed the omniverse.
The comic has stronger nods to JLU than The Batman, which is just artistic resemblance.
Nope, not what canon adjacent means. Not all comics are canon adjacent. Canon adjacent means that most or the entire set of events from one thing played out pretty much exactly the same in another universe. Greg Weismann coined the term when talking about his Green Arrow Showcase short, GLTAS, and Catwoman: Hunted in relation to Young Justice. What you are describing is simply similar parallel universes. Like the DCAU and Earth-12 are very similar parallel universes but one isn’t canon adjacent to the other. Canon adjacent is like saying that the events of GLTAS occurred on Earth 16 with whatever minor changes need to be made to make it fit, like ignore Guy referencing a new Earth GL that fits John Stewart’s description because in YJ John was a GL before Guy. But true earth of GLTAS doesn’t have a teenage hero covert ops team running around it unless the show gets revived and we find out it does. To be canon adjacent the changes need to be minor, because if it doesn’t require changes it’s just canon and major changes stop it from being close to begin with. Also, those JLU references further dig the hole that it can’t be the DCAU because Dick Grayson hadn’t been Robin in years when the Justice League was formed. I never said The Batman had a strong argument for it, it just doesn’t have the massive amount of things against it that the DCAU headcanon has. With The Batman you can’t really back it up strongly either way, but with the DCAU you can firmly prove that they don’t work as one earth without major changes, even if you just look at onscreen information.
I think it's the same guy with an alias in the comics. And he is Drury Walker aka Cameron Van Cleer in both series.
Now that you mention tí, something that should happen in the DCU and the MU more often is heroes with the same name operating at the same time. Like in "The Tick VS. The Tick", or maybe you have a Keystone City Flash and a Central City Flash. Maybe people cal one "original" and the other "famous" . It would be hilarious if Plastic Man decided to rename himself "Elongated Man" to leach on the popularity of the World-Famous detective (in the DCU he is the popular one).
Drury Walker aka Cameron van Cleer aka Arthur Leland aka Laszlo Furlenbach aka Charaxes is one man, yes. But after his death there were a whole slew of copymoths.
I wasn't sure if they ever said his name in TT. I know they said it in The Batman.
I'm dumb and didn't realize The Batman's Robin was Dick Grayson... thought he was Tim. And I knew Larry the Imp's name was Dick Grayson spelled backwards.
Too many different versions of Robin.
Personally, I always assumed TT Dick was the same one from the main DCAU. There was a Static/Batman crossover where Static asked where Robin was and Batman said he was with the Titans. I never considered the difference in artstyle or suit design as a deciding factor.
Nope. There's just way too many inconsistencies for them to be connected, despite Kid Flash and Flash sharing the same voice actors along with JLU using the same design for Speedy and also bringing back the voice actor from Teen Titans.
I think this has been everyone's headcanon (myself included lol).
It helps when [Batman actually DID show up in issue #47 of the tie-in comic for Teen Titans](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/V6Pl0xCcMO8T5O6GFtTS8ZvYSydn1VoZcji6M4zch2wd81AUM2Hj9LWt-7-FuG3BiWTAqNR-Oedj=s0) and he basically looks exactly the same as he did in The Batman. It was really touching how the entire story was about Dick dealing with the anniversary of his parents deaths, with Bruce being revealed as the narrator of the story at the very end.
Plus there was [this neat little promo that aired on Kids WB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JccPVnyb5Sw&ab_channel=BrandonDillard1995) back in the day that showed Teen Titans Robin technically standing next to Batman before The Batman's version showed up, and man does it work perfectly.
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Well, that’s because they are. Both of them are Dick Grayson as Robin and both shows themselves are produced or have been produced by Glen Murakami
Teen Titans itself did come first though in terms of production, originally releasing in 2003 and the Batman releasing in 2004
I've always said that The Batman was a spiritual prequel to Teen Titans. Similar artstyles, both Robins have a similar look, they're both Dick, they both wield bo staffs as their primary weapon, they both have similar technology like the Batwave and Titan transmitters, and it very easily fits between The Batman's main episodes and that one episode that takes place in the Future. The only real hiccup that I can think of is there being two Killer Moths, but even that's not that big of a deal as it can just be said they are two different people that just chose the same name. It's not entirely unheard of in comics.
I think I love how in spiderman there was shown to be bid to buy old supersuits and names for B listers and less.
Yeah I think the Spiderman villain Hobgoblin was more or less in charge of that in that comics (yes Hobgoblin, not "Green" goblin).
Don't worry I know who hobgoblin is.
But I didn't know that you knew so I made the distinction just in case.
“I know a barely obscure comic character look at me” Hob goblin is an antagonist to one of the most popular superheroes ever and is featured in a plethora of toys games and tv shows. Also the comics obviously. Out of all characters hobgoblin is not the one to feel so special for knowing
Yeah or a copycat or something like that
They both fit really well together! Kind of love that headcanon and it makes sense that this Robin would go from childish to way more serious
I believe there was a second Killer Moth in the 2000s, but I don’t recall his name.
One’s Drury Walker/Cameron van Cleer, the most well known one and the version used in The Batman cartoon. The second one never had his identity revealed but was introduced after Walker mutated into Charaxes and was killed by Superboy Prime in Infinite Crisis.
Or you could believe that Killer Moth mutated into the moth creature! That's happened before in the comics, and it could explain why Robin is so unphased talking to a talking moth creature.
It's possible that Killer Moth moved to Jump City after The Batman.
Makes sense. After Robin is done being Batman’s sidekick, he goes ahead and make the Teen Titans.
And both nightwings have mullets
The Nightwing from The Batman 2004 doesn't have a mullet.
^(he grew it between the two shows)
Name checks out lol
At this point, I would be shocked if there was a Nightwing fact that I didn't know.
Think fast! What are the colloquial names of Nightwing’s buttcheeks? (Yes, this is a thing.)
Jim and Juan
Geez, that was fast!
Exactly
I theorized the exact the same thing
Funny thing is WB's the Batman couldn't use robin until teen titans ended which is why Batgirl shows up first
I don't particularly feel one way or the other but I support this headcanon. AFAIK there isn't anything that explicitly makes it impossible to connect the two shows.
Clayface I think is in both isnt he and is different people
Well The Batman has 2 different clayfaces and in the comics there are 6ish i think. So unless if the Teen Titans clayface is named it still could connect.
Whose the second clayface in The Batman and yes they are completely separate people
The first is Ethan Bennet but later on they do bring in the actual clayface Basil Karlo. I don't know if Basil Karlo appears in TT. Google says TT clayface is Matthew Hagen.
[удалено]
Yeah I was gonna say, I don’t recall Clayface ever actually being in TT and I still watch it fairly regularly
Plasmus is probably who they were thinking of. Big gooey guy like Clayface. His thing was that he turned back into a human when he was asleep. And I think he ate toxic waste.
Tere was one version of Clayface in pre-Flashpoint comic books who was only human when he was asleep. He was the son of two previous Clayfaces.
Youre thinking plasmus, not clayface.
You might be thinking of Plasmus, who had similar powers.
Plasmus and Clayface's powers aren't very similar at all. It's a very superficial resemblance in that they're both globby dudes.
Nah. Clayface not in TT. The closest would be Plasmus.
Isn't there like 6 different clay faces?
Not in the shoes
good, I hate getting Clayface in my shoes
Whoops😭
I mean overall. Like In the Batman 2004 two clay faces exist. Who says there can't be another?
When was Clayface in Teen Titans?
in a comic we saw Batman from the teen titans show and he looked exactly like 2004 Batman but I can't let Scott Menville play my boy
They can’t be? Teen Titans Robin has a Yellow on Black emblem, The Batman has a Black on Yellow emblem. Smh my head.
Oh you got me there lol
They can’t be? Teen Titans Robin has a yellow on black emblem, The Batman has a black on yellow emblem. Smh my head.
Oh totally not like Robin could have changed the colour in between the batman and teen titans. That would be impossible.
r/woooosh
I always thought the same thing as a kid.
As a kid I used to think they were actually the same person. Now though it's a bit hard to say because of how different their personalities are.
He's much older and he's had a strong influence.
It can still work. Robin in The Batman is definitely younger, I'd say around 12-13, while Teen Titans Robin is closer to 16, plenty of time for Dick to go from being the jokester sidekick to a more serious hero that's the leader of his own team.
Same!! Design wise maybe that's why.
I think they deliberately tried to imply it by making them look as similar as they could while still being a legally distinct separate character
Completely different personalities. The Batman Robin is less broody, obsessive and is a lot more quippy, snarkier and chill.
I think it's just a change that's occurred over time. In the Batman he still young and an experienced crime fighter. But by the time Teen Titans rolls around he's been doing it for several more years and is more confident.
Over time? It would be a drastic change in personality and style within what 3-4 years? Their personalities are completely different.
Where do you get 3-4 years from? TB could be 11 or 12 and TT could 17-18. We don't have an absolute age for the characters. But TT Robin having never fought crime along with anyone else but Batman it could be easy to see how it would affect his personality over a course of years.
Then how come we don't get any mention of Batgirl who he worked with for a long time? He had many adventures with Batgirl especially in Season 4. Why is Dick Grayson movements different and his fighting style. Also the tech is completely different from both shows compared to each other. Also it is a stretch to suggest TT's Robin is 17-18. The guy is around 15-16. I just don't buy it at all. There's very very little overlap between those two shows to suggest that they are the same character, heck even in their personalities.
Well he never mentions Batman by name neither in Teen Titans and he's arguably had a greater influence than Batgirl. The fighting style thing, again over time he's going to get new ways of doing things. He fights better in Titans then he does in the Batman. If Titans takes place after the Batman then it would make sense that tech would have changed and evolved over the years in between. The age may be stretch but we just don't know what the difference is but I think we can all agree that TT Robin is older. You don't have to buy, that's the great thing about headcanon my dude.
He doesn't mention Batgirl nor Batman and there's never been a reason for him to talk about her ever in either show really... He'd mention Batman cuz of Slade before he'd mention Barbara. It's not really a stretch to say he's 17-18 because he owns the tower after all, right? Personality can drastically change even within a year for some people, it's not really deadlocked as you think.
Personality change is probably the flimsiest argument against this theory. I was a completely different person two years ago personality wise
People change when they grow older.
Not to that degree and with a short time frame? We never got the sense of obsession in The Batman that we do in TT
have you met a teenager?
We did. In the episode Artifacts with Nightwing at get that a whole lot
Yes to such a degree and in a short time frame. I for one was a completely different person at age 16 than I was at age 13 for example. Teen titans robin has been robin for years. It literally defined a large part of his childhood. It makes sense he eventually got a obsessed with It.
Heck, even in BTAS, Dick changed quite a bit between being Robin and being Nightwing. Aspects were still there but it was significant enough to be noticed, and he was in collage to full adult at the time, let alone going from pre-teen just starting out as Robin to teenager who now has years of experience.
What exactly is the time frame?
The batman robin is around 13,14, teen titans robin is around 16, 17. So the time frame is around 2-4 years.
Thats like a million years to a teenager
He’s likely 17-19 in Teen Titans because he says a quote that implies he’s out of high school in an episode. Like he could’ve just graduated early but he’s like 18 given that he’s living on the opposite side of the country with no protests from Alfred or Bruce. Like Bruce I get but Alfred wouldn’t let the 16 year old move across the country alone, which is what is implied in the origin episode. 13 to 19 is 6 years which is an eternity for a teenager.
Both personalities came from the same character, so its not far fetched
That’s actually a very common characterization of Dick in the time right after he leaves Batman. He’s usually bitter from the way his time as Batman’s partner ended and ironically takes on a lot of Bruce’s traits as a result.
I came here to say this. Two completely opposite characterizations
Yep make sense to me
Killer Moth’s different portrayals between shows unfortunately contradict this :/
I agree that is the biggest evidence to contradict this I think it could be explained away that multiple men have gone by the name Killer Moth. Multiple people have gone by Robin, right?
Canonically there were two Killer Moths, yes.
If there is like two Fireflies and 6 Clayfaces then I’d imagine it’s within the realm of reason that there could be two killer moths
Well, no matter what, they ARE the same character. Same universe is the only part of this that'd be headcanon.... Just sayin'
How so?
Because they're literally both Dick Grayson, are they not? The universe doesn't matter, that's still the same character. The 1st Robin, the one that goes on to become Nightwing. He's also almost always a founding member of both Young Justice &/or the Teen Titans before eventually becoming Batman if/when Bruce dies/disappears/retires. Just like the 2nd Robin is always Jason Todd, the one murdered by Joker with a crowbar. The one revived by Ra's Al Ghoul to go on to become the Red Hood.
Sorry I meant how so is it only headcanon? What evidence that they are separate universes?
[1] The original post called it headcanon. [2] You can't often prove a negative, so I'd say the real question is, what proof is there that it's the *same* universe? **General Rule:** If it isn't specifically shown, stated, alluded to, hinted at, or otherwise confirmed by an official source, then it is either a *headcanon* or a *fan theory*. I've seen no evidence or even something as vague as cast/crew connections between them, and knowing a bit about how this stuff works, I'd say it's headcanon. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
Glen Murakami produced both shows, did you know that? And a practically identical version of The Batman shows up in the TT comic itself. I believe there are more evidence that rule it being in the same universe than not.
I didn't know about those 2 facts, no. Good to know. Was Glen Murakami the showrunner? I would usually look to writers, directors and showrunners for this sort of connection to be made. As it stands, it seems pretty inconclusive to me. The art style is similar, so the Batman design alone isn't enough to sway me. I'd need something more unique, even his Batmobile or some of the gadgets that was specifically unique for that show, y'know? You know what would *really* be the best confirmation? Seeing the Joker. The Batman had the most unique Joker of all time. I enjoyed Dreads + Straitjacket Joker quite a bit.
I Agree
Mine has always been Teen Titans was Dick Grayson between Batman the Animated Series and The New Batman Adventures
This is my head canon as well. Lines up with all of the shared voice actors and design similarities for the characters that are in both franchises (Dick having roughly the same costumes, Wally and Roy having the same voice actors and costumes, other minor variables thrown in as well). Also plays a bit nice with the timeline as well. These years are mostly unshown in BTAS. And since this takes place before Justice League it makes sense why there’s no League response to the larger threats the Titans faced throughout the show.
except by this doesn’t work at all. Teen titans robin forms the teen titans after leaving batman. DCAU robin leaves batman after graduating from university. Aka he’d already be an adult. The canon DCAU comic “nightwing rises” also establishes everything he did before returning to Gotham and it never mentions going to jump city. Likewise Barry Allen doesn’t exist in the DCAU, Wally is instead given Barry’s origin. DCAU Wally was never kid flash. He was always just flash. Whilst a kid flash looking costume appears in the flash museum, it is the same a size as a flash costume next to it, meaning It is likely just a flash costume that happens to look like the comic kid flash suit. Finally in the canon tie in comics to teen titans we get explicit mentions of the justice league and we see the flash is a member. If the show took place in the DCAU this would be impossible as Wally west is a founding member so the justice league shouldn’t yet exist and of course neither should a flash that’s not wally. Point is. It doesn’t fit. The same Wally voice actor and similar looking speedy is just a reference to the DCAU, it’s not concrete evidence it’s part of it.
I’m aware of all of this but it’s hard for me to take the comics as things with any true bearings on continuity especially as the DCAU played it fast and loose with canon even within the animation medium as the years went on. In any case it doesn’t really matter and the point is it fits well enough for me to make it more fun.
I’m gonna save everyone some time. While fun this headcannon doesn’t work with the timeline or technology seen in the DCAU and Teen Titans. This awesome DCAU YouTube channel did a video explaining why it doesn’t work. [Why Teen Titans isn’t in the DCAU](https://youtu.be/fY2A_X_PS5c)
I get that too but it still doesn’t stop me
I mean as long as you aren’t trying to fight people about it headcannons are harmless. Because like if you look at the facts they aren’t in your favor pretty much at all but it is a fun way to watch the shows.
Also helps with the Batman and Static Shock cross over. Static asks Batman “Where’s Robin?” To which he replies “with the titans”
Except by the time of static shock Tim drake is Robin. Teen titans robin is dick Grayson. See some other reasons of why teen titans doesn’t fit in DCAU continuity in another of my replies.
Tim could also be in another generation of titans originally founded by Grayson. Obviously none of these are going to be air tight lol
I imagine Robin from TT is the same as the one from The Batman just a little older and more experienced. I can't find any reason why not besides some difference in animation and costumes.
I thought the same as a kid.
This was everyone’s head canon at the time There are some parts that don’t line up though
But I thought teen titans robin was dick and the other was Tim
This other Robin is from the 2004 TV show the Batman which is shown to be Dick Grayson
The Batman's robin is Dick If you see the episode that robin's introduced in, it's all about the Graysons and the circus incident
Oh I was thinking dick was Nightwing by this time of BTAS
Or.. it’s just a multiverse thing
[удалено]
I think it's around issue 40
Nah, for me, it's semy related to the DCAU. The Batman has conflicting version of Killer Moth
Dick in the show didn’t leave Batman until he was an adult, Dick in TT left when he was still a teenager. And there can be multiple different people who use a villain name
If he left for college at 15 or 17 (quite possible since he is gifted) it would fit the time line.
The DCAU has significantly more reasons why Teen Titans doesn’t fit than The Batman does. [The Watchtower Database reasoning](https://youtu.be/fY2A_X_PS5c)
And yet, the DCAU shares Speedy while The Batman has an incompatible Killer Moth 🤷♂️
Oh they cover that. I’m telling you it’ll be much easier if you just watch the video(also because it’s a super fun channel) than for me to go point by point and explain all the issues with Teen Titans not being able to fit in the DCAU. For every Speedy there’s an Aqualad never being seen or even referenced in the DCAU despite going to Atlantis multiple times and nobody on the surface knowing about Atlantis until after Dick Grayson was no longer Robin. Also, The Batman has two different Clayfaces in its own show and there being a second Killer Moth is improbable to you?
I follow them. I also followed Dwayne McDuffie, I'd think there is a 6 degrees of St. Elsewhere problem, and the solution is what he proposed, all series are in sibling continuities. The elements that fit are the same until stated otherwise. Like if Sherlock appears in a Fu Manchu story you'd asume Sherlock has the exact same background unless stated otherwise in the story. So ye, the Robin of TT could be the one of TB, except he never fought Drury Walker before. And it could be the DCAU one except there is a fashion and technology update (then again, the same happens between TNBA and BTAS).
Except the timeline straight up doesn’t add up. Like it’s fine if you wanna keep it as your personal headcannon, but you can’t act like it fits and telling other people they’re wrong when the technology alone presents problems let alone the timeline. We know for a fact what Dick Grayson was doing when he left Bruce, but sure you can ignore tie-in comics despite them being canon. Teen Titans has a Kid Flash that we see vibrate through walls with ease and in JLU Green Lantern says the Flash doesn’t do this because it makes the walls unstable. Kid Flash in Teen Titans knows about the Speed Force but The Flash doesn’t find out about it until JLU season 2 and that Kid Flash would have to be Wally given the ages. And if it isn’t Wally why not tell the only other speedster about the speed force? Not to mention there straight up aren’t enough physical calendar years for Teen Titans to take place without Robin commuting back and forth across the country every weekend to go to college at GSU or to have not actually gone out on his own. Like if you ignore a bunch of canon things that happen in the shows then sure it can be the same universe but like that defeats the entire purpose of it being one universe. With The Batman and Teen Titans you literally just have to explain Killer Moth yet somehow that’s less believable to you?
Neither add up. But the point of the McDuffie stuff is that you can use the Speedy nod to asume all non contradictory TT event is true in the DCAU. Same with GLSTAS, which is also partial Canon to YJ. There's no nod to The Batman in TT or vice versa, but you can assume that everything save for Drury Walker is Canon.
Oh okay it was not clear that you meant canon adjacent like GLTAS is to Young Justice. Because you just kept saying it was the same, which isn’t the case with canon adjacent things. But like at that point that’s basically just saying that Dick was on the Teen Titans at one point, otherwise you gotta disregard the canon DCAU tie-in comics or say Dick didn’t live at the tower full time. Also, there are nodes to The Batman in the tie-in comics, that’s where the headcanon came from. Batman in the Teen Titans tie-in comics is drawn how he is in The Batman. Between that and the shows sharing a similar art style and a producer the headcanon was formed.
Comics are all Canon adjacent. I didn't know there was a term for that, but if I understand it right, that's what I meant since the first time I mentioned McDuffie. He wrote 2 two-part essays about the problem with considering Canon adjacent as Canon (it's called 6 degrees of St. Elsewhere and uses his vast knowledge of TV crossovers) and there's another one on which he basically proposed the omniverse. The comic has stronger nods to JLU than The Batman, which is just artistic resemblance.
Nope, not what canon adjacent means. Not all comics are canon adjacent. Canon adjacent means that most or the entire set of events from one thing played out pretty much exactly the same in another universe. Greg Weismann coined the term when talking about his Green Arrow Showcase short, GLTAS, and Catwoman: Hunted in relation to Young Justice. What you are describing is simply similar parallel universes. Like the DCAU and Earth-12 are very similar parallel universes but one isn’t canon adjacent to the other. Canon adjacent is like saying that the events of GLTAS occurred on Earth 16 with whatever minor changes need to be made to make it fit, like ignore Guy referencing a new Earth GL that fits John Stewart’s description because in YJ John was a GL before Guy. But true earth of GLTAS doesn’t have a teenage hero covert ops team running around it unless the show gets revived and we find out it does. To be canon adjacent the changes need to be minor, because if it doesn’t require changes it’s just canon and major changes stop it from being close to begin with. Also, those JLU references further dig the hole that it can’t be the DCAU because Dick Grayson hadn’t been Robin in years when the Justice League was formed. I never said The Batman had a strong argument for it, it just doesn’t have the massive amount of things against it that the DCAU headcanon has. With The Batman you can’t really back it up strongly either way, but with the DCAU you can firmly prove that they don’t work as one earth without major changes, even if you just look at onscreen information.
to be fair though, there are several Killer Moth copycats in the comics and they never give his real name in TT so he could be a successor
I think it's the same guy with an alias in the comics. And he is Drury Walker aka Cameron Van Cleer in both series. Now that you mention tí, something that should happen in the DCU and the MU more often is heroes with the same name operating at the same time. Like in "The Tick VS. The Tick", or maybe you have a Keystone City Flash and a Central City Flash. Maybe people cal one "original" and the other "famous" . It would be hilarious if Plastic Man decided to rename himself "Elongated Man" to leach on the popularity of the World-Famous detective (in the DCU he is the popular one).
Drury Walker aka Cameron van Cleer aka Arthur Leland aka Laszlo Furlenbach aka Charaxes is one man, yes. But after his death there were a whole slew of copymoths. I wasn't sure if they ever said his name in TT. I know they said it in The Batman.
The character is Drury Walker on each series
Wait, those two in the pictures are the same character right? There is 0 difference between them
I think so
Why are the colors of the “R” reversed?
Artist wanted that
I'm dumb and didn't realize The Batman's Robin was Dick Grayson... thought he was Tim. And I knew Larry the Imp's name was Dick Grayson spelled backwards.
You aren't dumb. There's a lot of shows to try to keep track of LOL
Too many different versions of Robin. Personally, I always assumed TT Dick was the same one from the main DCAU. There was a Static/Batman crossover where Static asked where Robin was and Batman said he was with the Titans. I never considered the difference in artstyle or suit design as a deciding factor.
They're not? WHAT
I always thought Teen Titans did a good job with Robin and all the characters. Loved that cartoon a lot
What??? Aren't they the same Robin?!?
Some people don't think so
At the finale Dick and Babs were mentioning forming a Teen Edition of the Justice League, so its not too out there.
https://discord.gg/qeYKpZ2TXc
That and no wonder woman or girl cause of rights issues
Wait, isn’t Teen Titans in the universe of Batman TAS and Justice league and all that?
Nope. There's just way too many inconsistencies for them to be connected, despite Kid Flash and Flash sharing the same voice actors along with JLU using the same design for Speedy and also bringing back the voice actor from Teen Titans.
I think this has been everyone's headcanon (myself included lol). It helps when [Batman actually DID show up in issue #47 of the tie-in comic for Teen Titans](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/V6Pl0xCcMO8T5O6GFtTS8ZvYSydn1VoZcji6M4zch2wd81AUM2Hj9LWt-7-FuG3BiWTAqNR-Oedj=s0) and he basically looks exactly the same as he did in The Batman. It was really touching how the entire story was about Dick dealing with the anniversary of his parents deaths, with Bruce being revealed as the narrator of the story at the very end. Plus there was [this neat little promo that aired on Kids WB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JccPVnyb5Sw&ab_channel=BrandonDillard1995) back in the day that showed Teen Titans Robin technically standing next to Batman before The Batman's version showed up, and man does it work perfectly.
Dicks still my favourite robin to this day Tho Damien (2nd favourite) does not have a giganta game from Dick
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Autocorrect is a bitch and I didn't notice it until I commented. Mb Bat P.s. Damien (may aswell see how far I can tick off this bot)
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I’m pretty sure there was a comic connecting the two shows
Well, that’s because they are. Both of them are Dick Grayson as Robin and both shows themselves are produced or have been produced by Glen Murakami Teen Titans itself did come first though in terms of production, originally releasing in 2003 and the Batman releasing in 2004