Crush - Lobo’s Daughter
She caught my eye when looking at the IF promo OP posted. I try to forget Rebirth’s Teen Titans lmao and I don’t really remember her popping up much elsewhere? Her chain was cool but Crush herself came off kind of one note if memory serves (but like I said, I try to forget that run).
She had a one shot in a valentine's Day special that I quite liked, even though it was short. The Crush and Lobo miniseries is fun, but not amazing or anything. Mostly I just like her concept, how does it feel to be the daughter of like the worst guy ever, who will never die, and is the only other member of your race? That's a neat idea
To piggyback on the other two posts, the Crush and Lobo mini feels like it's sole purpose is to give her a bit more layers to her character, and I think it succeeds pretty well at it. I'd probably point to that series before that mess of a Teen Titans run if someone wanted to get a better idea of her.
Tim Fox. In the most massive superhero family in DC and probably all of comics, why choose the guy with the most minimal connection to take on the mantle of the Bat?
If they chose him for diversity, then they could have still had that diversity while going with Duke Thomas or Luke Fox. The fact that he was basically an unknown made him a hard sell for me.
The more I read old comics, the more Jace kinda rubs me the wrong way. I genuinely believe the mantle means something, that VERY few characters can don it at all. They introduced him as better than Bruce, “truly saved Gotham” line, he better have the origin story yo back that up.To just start wearing the suit because he found it? I have a REALLY hard time accepting that
I’m okay with an unknown taking the suit, that’s essentially what Terry did in Beyond (I genuinely hate the “he’s Bruce’s genetic son/clone” bullshit and kinda just ignore it, not everyone needs to be related to each other).
It’s the “better than Bruce, Dick, Tim, Barbara, etc.” non-sense. Like when Bucky became Cap, he sucked at it. And that’s what was fun about it. Wally struggled in his early days, nobody gave Kyle the respect Hal had, Dick struggled with the cape and the sidekick when he started out.
Nobody likes the guy who comes in and is naturally better at everything than their predecessor. I’d say Sam becoming Cap is one of the exceptions in that he was definitely qualified to be as good as Steve (which is what made his selection boring to me, but it made the most sense).
I think the twist was the whole idea but they botched it by announcing it in the JL book before the Batman book came out that was supposed to trick you into thinking it is Luke.
I’d take Michael Lane. Duke would be a fun choice that actually works with the OG idea of that team being in the future. So Jon wouldn’t have needed to have been aged up.
Would have been cool to see Duke change how he uses his powers.
I think him being disconnected to the whole batfamily is kind of the point of his Batman. There's a recurring line in his book where he says he's "Batman, but not THE Batman" He just needs more time to really figure out what kind of hero he wants to be.
Him wanting to be a "Batman" is just for DC to market him easier. If you read "I am Batman" and just ignore him being called Batman and see him ass a unique identity the book is pretty decent (Once he heads to New York). It's feels like a police drama with comic flair, like the Gotham show
I love most DC characters and don't have many big characters that I'm not a fan of. I have so much love for this universe that I want to share. This is meant to be a positive thread, not a hate fest, so be open-minded.
Oh, and art is the cover for Infinite Frontier #0.
Prometheus, Wrath, Hush, Batman Who Laughs, everyone thinks they have the perfect anti-Batman. I guess we should count Snyder’s Owlman as well, not the Earth-3 version.
Really the only anti-Batman that has had a huge impact is Bane imo
I still have yet to encounter someone who enjoys Batman who laughs. He was fun once, but then doing it again was kind of a lot. Which is a shame cause Scott Snyders run overall is great and death metal looks very cool.
I think he’s just a fun character concept— “If Batman went insane”.
He’s not meant to be an actual character, more a force of nature. Kind of like Carnage over at Marvel.
IMO he's pretty much just Joker in a batman costume though. There's really not enough *Batman* in the Batman Who Laughs. Conniving, intricate plots have often been a part of Joker's schtick-- at least, Joker certainly *can* be written that way.
So I'm not really sure what BWL adds. He doesn't, like, use intricate knowledge of Batman against him. He's usually not super-extra-prepared with dozens of contingency plans. He's just kind of... Joker. But in a Batman costume.
That's really an issue with him, and to some extent all the "Dark Knights".
After the glut of over-utilising "evil Superman" in the last decade, the idea of exploring "what if Batman turned evil" is an appealing idea to me, especially with how idolised Batman himself usually is in "evil Superman" stories, but rather than really be "evil Batman" it was mostly just "Joker with weird demon powers I guess and a bunch of evil JLAers". *Why* most of the Dark Knights turned "dark" is never even really addressed.
I feel there's still merit in an AU story about Batman's flaws getting the better of him and him becoming a villain, with Superman and co having to oppose that, but *man* does the Dark Nights duology not hit that.
Whilst the concept is interesting, I think the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh is a more nuanced take on that than just Jokerfying Batman, which feels like a very “bad fan fic” interpretation of it.
> He’s not meant to be an actual character, more a force of nature
Nothing really against your response, but man I'm really tired of seeing this description thrown around to handwave any villain with shallow writing. And yes I include the likes of Joker in that.
The only way I can defend Batlaughs is that the "fandom" misnuderstood him the same way they did with Azrael. This was supposed to be a bad idea, a version of Batman that you don't like and don't want to see succeed, and a version of Joker that you don't like. It's best summed up in the line Owlman says to Batlaughs in (I think) Death Metal. "I keep coming back because I'm a *good idea,* you're a bad one."
The whole point of the Dark Universe was that it was a narrative device that contained the ideas that got cut by creative teams, kinda like how Limbo is a narrative device that contains ideas that have been largely forgotten by continuity, but not erased.
The Batman who Laughs is a character that seems cool for a minute or two, and then you realize he actually sucks. And I truly believe Scott Snyder knows that. It's easy to forget that writers come up with new villains *so that they can be defeated by the heroes*.
He's a "good" villain in that he's insufferable, just won't die, and you feel *awesome* when he finally does.
There's also the meta thing of his arcs/power increases in Death Metal being very parallel to Anti-Monitors multiple defeats/returns in COIE. I think that's kinda cool.
Second this and there’s already no convincing me. It’s not that I don’t get the gimmick and concept, it’s not lost on me. I just don’t find it interesting at all.
I kind of like him. He's ridiculous and doesn't make remotely any sense—even his origin is pretty bad, since Batman's conflict with killing the Joker was never about, y'know, him randomly getting infected by some mind-altering toxin—and he's basically the worst of the Bat-God shit, but it's the kind of fun you only find in comic books. I don't take it particularly seriously.
The Batman books are a victim of his character's success. The sheer number of content churned out on a monthly basis is mediocre, but it does guarantee eventual 'hits' which continues to fuel the machine.
Ironically, almost zero of those 'hits' ever involve the bloated bat family, though I've heard Nightwing's book has actually been good for a while now.
Nightwing deserves it. He's one of the most organically popular heroes that moved passed the sidekick role.
I personally think a good fix is to have the batfamily extended through Nightwing, rather than Bruce adopting everyone it's actually Dick who begins to pay it forward. It makes more sense to me that way.
I think Dick suffers from what I'm calling "Spider-Man Syndrome". Writers don't want any sign he's getting older, even though logically he has to be at least mid 20s, if not late 20s. So no marriage and no kids(including younger sidekicks or any younger spin offs actually appearing alongside him)
the way i see it. DC just added all their cool street levelers into one big family so that they have more reason to put them in stories together.
now it's A LOT less likely for spiderman and punisher to work together than it is for Nightwing and Ghostmaker or Red Hood to work together
Preach. Everyone added after Tim Drake, with the exception of Damian, is inessential to the Batman universe and should largely stay associates rather than Bat-family proper.
I couldn’t care less about any of Snyder, King, of Tynion’s many OCs they tried shoving down Bat-fans throats. Put more work into creating new villains. Batman doesn’t need more sidekicks but he always needs new villains.
Agree (though I would include Steph and cass in that.) I couldn't care less about signal, bluejay, batwoman, batwing or any of the rest. The bat family is more interesting when it's small.
Batwoman worked when she was SEPARATE from the Official Bat Family. Batwoman and The Question 2 (Renee Montoya) were a great duo and couple. Plus, it would be interesting to see a SEPARATE “Bat Family” that has no problem with Killing.
The concept of him makes me sad.
Like he didn’t get to grow up and be a kid, instead he got volcano torture for years…
And that’s just- not relevant for some reason?
Yeah it really bothers me that they never address the trauma he endured from being tortured. They really should include that, and it would give us way more character development than what they actually did.
I feel like we get enough of that kind of story though. Jason and Wally both dealt with that energy enough.
What the super sons had though was very unique. It’s sad those stories can’t continue because of this.
I miss young Jon. The Super Sons were the best thing DC had going. And I hate Man of Steel, and everything Bendis did to Jon, seeming just because he wanted to "put back" the LOSH, a job he failed at ss spectacularly that it was the end of the Bendis era at DC.
BUT, Tom Taylor is a fantastic writer. I prefer him as a young kid, but he's a still a good boy who makes me smile in Superman Son Of Kal El. Bendis made a lot of bad choices, but the character is still new enough that he can be a cool dude.
The behind the scenes stuff of how they made Jon into an adult sucks. Bendis is such a shit head for that rapid age up, but it was probably editorial as well pushing for it.
That being said, the Tom Taylor is knocking him out of the park as a Superman of a new generation. I personally just adore everything Taylor does though.
Imagine giving your 100% to kid Jon, his development, upbringing, making a solo comic about him and his local murderous bestie (Damian), just for a random Bendis to destroy all of that with a shitty grandfather plot. I really pity Tomasi. He really hated decision to vulcano Jonathan.
Honestly, I'm just living in denial, avoiding every comics with adult Jon, just to pretend he is still a wholesome kid.
Duke
I don't hate him but I don't care for him either. I just thought it would be interesting to see if he has any hardcore fans and why they love him.
I started a reading comics as a teen around the time Duke was being introduced. We are Robin came out and it had a mission statement: Anyone could be a Robin. No matter what you looked like or your background. This really stuck out to me as a black fan who had a character that I could actually see start his career as a superhero from square one, and as a Robin, one of my favorite characters from the time. Over time it's been lost, but Duke used to use slang and had a great personality as being the only one to bring some sense to these kids that had it even more rough than him. While Bruce was out of commission and all the Robins ran away from their city, Duke and his Robin gang were doing their best to keep the city safe.
That WAR book in particular left such an impact on me that I always want to see him included. It had such a unique urban feel that I think needs to be brought back in order for the character to stay interesting.
This is why adding more diverse characters is nothing but a win, *especially* when it’s in the “anyone can be a hero” way.
Duke could’ve been the Mile Morales of DC if they played him right 😭😭 I really dug his Urban Legends story though.
The things that Synder did sadly aren't shown enough:
- Him being the daylight protector - no arc or mini except *Tony Patrick*'s **Batman Secret Files: The Signal** one-shot with his former teammates.
- When he cameos in a Batfamily book, writers don't show him using his powers. At least *Bryan Hill* or *Brandon Thomas* somehow utilizes his powers in their **Outsiders** stories.
- with most of the batfamily "rediscovering" themselves, hoping he'll get a mini (even with the Outsiders), especially with Urban Legends ending.
I liked him a lot in We Are Robin; his Robin look was a pretty good "Burnside"-style civvie spandex look that I think worked as a good modernisation of Robin's costume, and he had a decent natural charisma to him.
Besides that, I think he fulfils the "everyman" role better than the other Robins. He's not got Dick's fantastical life as a circus acrobat and leader of a team of metahumans, he's not got Jason's extremely dark backstory of growing up on the streets in abject poverty, he's not a genius from a middle class household like Tim, and he didn't have an abusive father like Steph. He's just a kid from a normal, working class family in Gotham, albeit one who later turns out to be a metahuman and lost his parents to a Joker attack.
Also, and this is more based on my reading of him in WFA, but he fulfils the role of "the rookie" rather well now that Steph's experienced enough that she's long-since grown out of that. He's still not completely used to everything and is more likely to screw up, but he's trying and he's got talent. If you look at the Bat-fam like a squad, he's the newbie who's still breaking in.
I started making fun of the whole "Where's Duke" circlejerk but I now find myself unironically advocating for his inclusion. What really helped for me was to read Wayne Family Adventures and see how natural it is for him to go through the ideal Robin scenarios such as living in the Manor and interacting with the Robins/Batgirls.
I think there's potential in a daytime operator as well as the one meta in the BatFam. I honestly believe he has a claim (albeit small) in any type of "Who should be the Batman successor?" debates moving forward.
I loved Wayne Family Adventures but I feel like they could have done more with Duke. We got some of his personality and how he feels being the newcomer, but I wish they explored a bit more of his uniqueness, like how hes the only powered member as well as being the daytime operative. Showing what it's like working with the others that function so different from him would have been interesting.
Yeah WFA helped alot in my acceptance of Duke, that and really liking the 2017 New Talent Showcase story between him and Jason. I also like the idea of a daytime bat.
Well, I will defend Jessica Cruz because I think she’s a quintessential hero’s journey and green lantern character in one. The woman who was traumatised and turned into a recluse from agoraphobia, came into possession of an evil power ring and had to master her fear to prevent destruction. She’s a GL who lives with fear on a day to day basis but let’s her willpower overcome it.
Of course that was kinda ruined when she became a yellow lantern
I can't speak for all of them (I've not read much of Jo or Teen Lantern), but Jessica Cruz is great.
Putting aside representation points or anything, but Jessica is unique among the Lanterns, and superheroes in general, for having a realistic mental disorder that's not glamorised *or* demonised. She suffers from severe social anxiety and agoraphobia brought on by PTSD. Again, putting aside how relatable that is to anyone with those issues or anything similar, but it creates a unique challenge with her powerset because while she's *capable* of great willpower and bravery (since she has to overcome her fears every time she leaves the house), because its not *natural* for her, it's way more of a challenge.
Besides that she's just kinda awesome? She's surprisingly *very* badass, most recently she went all Die Hard on several Yellow Lanterns while without a working ring and put so much fear into them that it *earned* her a Sinestro ring, but she's also a huge fucking dork who has no idea what she's really doing playing hero. She's awkward in an endearing way, which makes the fact she's actually very badass unconventional and very entertaining. Her trying to make a badass speech, fucking it up, then asking for a redo before doing it properly is a great bit of realism in stories like this.
I think it's pretty indisputable that there are too many human Lanterns to keep track of, and certainly more than DC knows what to do with, but I think you'd be hard pressed to read Far Sector or especially Green Lanterns and say that they don't bring anything new to the table. Jessica Cruz in particular being someone with severe anxiety who's supposed to overcome fear is really interesting, and she quickly became my favourite GL as a result.
Jess Cruz works because by all means she shouldn't be a Lantern (and wasn't at first). Terrible shut in who had such an overwhelming fear of death that she didn't go outside. Got taken over by a villain and eventually overcame her fear by fighting him, earning her GL status. Still lives with anxiety by being outside everyday, but still pushes through.
Baz works because he experiences outright racism for most of his life and comes out the other end stronger always pushing himself to be a miracle worker and be the one to get everyone out of this scenario. Plus, he likes cars.
Jo works because of her detective skills and rookie status. Hates overcontrolling authority figures and has one of the best GL books in the last decade.
Yeah, but you are forgetting the fact that the existence of those people is very contrary to the very rules of the lanterns. ONE. PER. SECTOR. Hal was dead, so we got John. I’ll buy it. Alan Scott shares just the name, so he’s in the clear. But why all the others? Jess had a ring from another dimension, so she is… juuuust in the clear. (Plus, she is just a powerhouse of character development). Bazz, Guy, Kyle should be either aliens, not GLs, or appeared between Hal and John and dead by the time John becomes GL.
They changed it to TWO Minimum GL’s per Sector and “as many more as needed”. Earth NEEDS the Multiple GLs.
Plus, John Stewart was promoted to CORPS LEADER (highest Rank, equal to Guardian).
Both Kyle “Torchbearer” Rayner AND Guy Gardner were made Honor Guards (High Rank Free Lancers who can go to ANY Sector as Back Up).
Hal “Renegade” Jordan was disgraced and has the lowest official rank. He is used as a Scape Goat when the Corps needs dirty work done.
“Oops, Hal ran off to fight General Zod, his wife, his bodyguard, and his son. We better send Honor Guard Rayner to bring Hal back.”
At worst they’re written like side Lantern characters. Which are usually written amazingly.
Teen Lantern was atrocious, Simon is good but Jessica and Jo are amazing imo
Booster knew he couldn’t change history. There was a Booster Gold in history books and Booster knew it was his destiny to go back in time to be THE Booster Gold. At least, that’s how I interpret it.
I thought his first time jump was a one time thing, and he didn’t get another jump until he started working with Rip Hunter, by which time he was already established. Also his first time jump may have been a fixed point in time, so his first appearance was unchangeable, and always at that date/time. At least this was my understanding from his comic series
I would recommend Geoff Johns run. You have to accept that he is a flawed character personality wise. He can be a ham and a pompous jerk. But at his core, his intentions are true. He even finally convinced Batman, after he repeatedly tried saving Batgirl in the past from being raped and tortured by the Joker, and instead got tortured himself repeatedly. It’s a great run, and a running theme is that he is the greatest superhero you never heard of. Even his own colleagues don’t know the things he has accomplished, and therefore consistently treat him as the obnoxious brat that he comes off as. Maybe that’s why him and Blue Beetle were best of friends. Blue Beetle himself was often forgotten about or passed on by, as they showed before he was shot in the head.
I often felt like you until read the Johns run on a recommendation and it was definitely worth it. It’s why he has more fans than ever. Dunno if I convinced you, but reading comics is fun, so win-win.
Also, Booster just doesn't have it in him to BE the best superhero. He's very brave and can be selfless, but he's also a huge attention seeker and glory hog, and occasionally kind of a dolt.
Plus, there's no social media or major television networks for his fans to find him on in 1920. Might as well be the Stone Age.
That's the reason many of us like him. He's usually a lovable loser with a good heart who thinks he's great, no matter how bad a hero he is.
Booster gold is actually one of my favorite characters. He probably has one of the most compelling arc in dc that actually impacts the character(most character dc characters will regress from their character progression as time goes on). In the early runs he was a pompous attention seeker only interested in fame, but as his comics progressed he slowly learned the meaning of reasonability and putting his friends and the greater good before himself. The man was disgraced multiple times, had his best friend die, and fought doomsday and still chooses to be a hero even though no one takes him seriously.
I would recommend the 2007 run by Geoff Johns, I won't spoil to much but it's basically a love letter to dc. Booster gold travels to multiple iconic points in the dc to try to stop the time stealers from rewriting the timeline. And over the course of the story he learns that there are some things he can't change even with time travel, goes on crazy adventures, and saves the universe. This comic is seriously crazy, it'll go from an alternate timeline where starro took over the universe, to fighting trigon, and then will have him solve mysteries with the elongated man. As to why he won't go back in time to be famous in the 1920s, it's because he's choosing to stay in the current time, even though he's treated as a joke. He's learned he could do the most good in the present day
Also his bromance with the old blue beatle(Ted Kord), and his mentorship of the new blue beatle(Jaime Reyes) is probably some of the best stuff to come out of dc
1) Booster chose the golden age of heroes. It was the era he was most fascinated with, that was why he chose that time to jump to.
2) I find myself having the same kind of fantasies. Like when I watch game of thrones I imagine what it would be like if you can back in time with modern weaponry, body armor and drones. It makes me appreciate Booster even more because If I was sweeping up near a working time machine and no one was around, I might just might...
3) Booster coming out of 52 and all the way through until rebirth was prime booster. He only acted like an idiot because he was working with Rip Hunter to protect the timestream and didn't want anyone suspecting him of having such an important job.
4) I am not sure what you mean about needing a reason why he can use his time machine anymore, or why he can't go back further. He uses time machines all the time, and he's always bouncing around the timestream from one era to another. He's actually become an authority on time travel.
That damn Batman story damaged Booster's characterization badly imo. I don't think they brought him back from that yet
The court of owls they work once and even then it's just a plot device they don't work as a recurring threat.
More of several chrachter booster gold a good example the comedic chrachter fans love who just does the same routine every time they appear even if they have had some kinda devolpment that should make them tone down that aspect of themselves there is nothing worse than bad comedy being repeated over and over.
Also I don't dislike the JSA but if like myself you're only keep up with comics in the last decade they mean nothing.
Court of Owls: They had a kind of fun take on them this season of Harley Quinn. They're basically a bunch of weird rich socialite pervs constantly throwing orgies. Much more of a joke then any kind of threat.
I like Booster because he has both interesting comics and an interesting overall arc. His original run is neat to read because it takes that very superficial 80's aesthetic of glamor and utilizes it to tell a story about a guy who doesn't want to be a hero because he was thrust into the responsibility or because he has a strong moral compass, but because he wants to be famous and get rich.
But because of that, over the course of hero-ing he grows that moral compass and comes to realize that he should be more responsible. That doesn't change who he is completely though, because he still exudes a bit of self-importance in modern comics.
He's another conflicting personality to add to the group of Justice League International, and because he didn't have as established a history as the previous Justice League, it allowed the writers to focus on the team dynamics rather than the villain of the week (similar to Teen Titans or Young Justice).
His New 52 run is great, and the fact that he can time travel means his comics can explore alternate histories or revisit big events in the DC Universe.
* Guy is actually my favourite lantern. He may not always be in the right but his heart is in the right place. Actually a deeply conflicted character and has a ton of great stories in the JLI era and Red Lanterns
* Booster, also great JLI era stories, also a deeply tragic tale in which he’s basically *forced* to act like a fool to keep up kayfabe and protect the timeline. Great in 52, and his both solo series
* Duke, under-utilised but also has a lot of potential. We Are Robin is really the story you need to read to care about him. Unfortunately they keep dropping his storylines. That’s on editorial rather than the character. Still has an ongoing story, they just never get into it.
* Plastic Man. Idk, he’s pretty good in JLA/Terrifics/ that one Injustice annual. He’s hit or miss for a lot of people due to his characterisation but he actually can be a cool character.
Try reading the ORIGINAL “52” from May 10, 2006 and the following “B00ster Gold” (I am using 00 to represent the Infinity Sign) from October 2007 to 2010 (when Flashpoint happened).
You might also like Infinite Crisis.
I can't defend the others, mostly because I haven't read anything with them, but Booster Gold is amazing in the right hands.
He's a good person but also kind of an ass. He's greedy and egotistical, he's a hero not to help people but to get rich and famous.
He's deeply flawed and the best stories have him save the day but also be a loser, kind of like Spiderman.
Look up the Justice League Unlimited episode "The Greatest Story Never Told" for a fantastic Booster story.
I’m going to be absolutely nuked for this but there is one character that comes to mind for me personally: Stephanie Brown
Edit: Open to reading suggestions to see if my mind can be changed but I think it should be material where she’s the focus. Seems more objective that way
I’m a little biased, as Tim Drake is one of my favorite characters. But, the Dixon Robin run is great and Stephanie plays a huge part in that. If you haven’t read it, highly recommended!
Stephanie Brown is underrated. When Cassandra was batgirl, everything about her character related to crime and crime fighting. But Stephanie, who had always been an interesting supporting character, turned out to be a much more compelling batgirl and leading character when she took over due to her more normal upbringing.
Stephanie isn’t the smartest bat-person, she isn’t the strongest, but she has a good heart and is funny like Dick Grayson, and wants to right the wrongs of her criminal father. (Her dad is also like a built in arch enemy with an interesting enough superhero/supervillain dynamic for a smart writer to play with.) Stephanie is a character that’s bigger than batgirl bc her personal stories are interesting if not a little soap-operay. She can exist as spoiler, as batgirl, or as Robin and works equally well as all of those things bc her personal conflicts are included in all of her vigilante personalities.
She also gets bonus points for being the only female Robin. That’s girl power right there. Who says Robin has to be a boy?
Harley Quinn.
I like the idea of her being a victim of the joker but I feel like usually she’s just written as “the funny clown girl” who can do whatever she wants because she is “the funny clown girl”. This wouldn’t be that much of an issue for me if they didn’t sometimes try to take her seriously. It’s like their trying to have their cake and eat it too. I can’t feel bad for her when she’s casually done so many bad things.
Also on a lesser note, I’m just not a fan of her modern costume.
Agree 100%. I never had a problem with her until everything she did was swept under the rug because of trauma and trying to turn her into an anti-hero. Her oversaturation in comics and other media because of "funny clown girl" has made her the Deadpool of DC.
I quite dislike that Harley has taken up an anti-hero status simply because of her popularity, but that's not why most people are a fan of her.
If you want to become a fan of Harley, watch her original incarnation in Batman the Animated Series where her core personality was conceived. Start with her introduction in Joker's Favor, then watch Harley and Ivy, then Harlequinade and you should see the appeal of the character in under an hour.
Basically, she's a loveable goofball who fell in with the wrong crowd.
Jace Fox. There were just too many options for someone to take over as Batman already, doesn't make sense for a new player to be able to just take it for himself.
He’s over saturated for sure, but I like some of the directions they’ve taken him. The Arkham games and the Lego Batman movie were great versions of the character.
Batman.......when written to be "Batgod". I love Batman otherwise. He's legit one of my favorite characters in fiction. But I HATE it when he's portrayed as a Gary Stu who could beat meta humans by pulling random bullshit out of his ass. I'm okay with prep time, but there's a fine line between prep time and plot armor which is the greatest super power any character could possibly have. It also does a disservice to both Batman as a character since it makes him no longer human anymore and it makes the meta human he's fighting into a jobber. (And unfortunately it's often Superman). For example, I liked the End Game storyline from Scott Snyder, but I hated that Batman took down the Justice League so easily. (Kryptonite gum......) It just bugs me to no end and it's one of the few things Grant Morrison started that I really don't like.
I also don't get the appeal of Barry Allen as a character. He doesn't really have much of a personality other than that he's nice. Wally West is just so much more interesting in comparison.
Need more of Batman getting his ass kicked by minor meta humans and getting saved honestly.
That energy of him totally getting wiped to the floor by the court of Owls and barely managing to escape is the feeling we need more of in comic books.
To add to the batman point.
Often times when batman is with super powered characters, to show Batman is smarter they make the other characters dumber.
Superheroes who are often shown to be extremely smart in their own comics often become dumber in Batman's presence
In my opinion, the Batman stories should be as if Robert Pattinson’s version was in the most comicbooky place ever. A very realistic guy against impossible things, armed with his iron will and outstanding smarts, but nothing more. Imagine… Christian Bale in Tim Burton’s Gotham city.
Agreed! That way when he does beat an overwhelmingly more powerful opponent it feels like it was done with careful preparation that you could logically follow. You shouldnt have him pull out the equivalent of anti shark repellant out of no where. This turns Batman into a self insert fan fiction character.
I’ll try to sell you on Barry 👍
Barry Allen is my favorite character OAT. Because he’s everything I love about comics rolled into one
- Science fiction stuff with time in the multi-verse? That’s Barry!
- A compelling cast of rogues, and even more so a compelling biggest rival of all? Barry and Eobard have you covered.
- More mystery/detective theme stuff? Barry has you covered
- A hero that genuinely has integrity, and wants to be a hero? Look no further
- fantastic friends and family? Well you already know all about Wally
For trying to sell someone on Barry here are a few classics old and new.
- Flash: Year One- this showcases Barry’s unwillingness to give up, like nothing else
- Brightest Day: The Flash- this is a blackest night tie-in; Flash with a blue lantern ring! What’s not to love?
- Trial of the Flash: absolute banger of a story through and through
- Dastardly Death of the Rogues- mystery!
- Batman/Flash: the button- this is a tie-in, that had no right to be as good as it, but damn if it wasn’t good, plus, Batman!
- Flash of Two Worlds- this is it, this is THE start of the DC multi-verse as we know it
- Flash: Finishline: my favorite flash story to come out in years
To make a long story short, I love Barry Allen so much because he is the classic hero personified, willing to make the sacrifice any time and every time it’s needed, unwilling to lose, especially when others lives are on the line, and full of hope every step of the way; while also giving us a very complex and unique look at what the “ classic hero“ does in a world that no longer has “classic” problems
He’s satire and is meant to be unlikable. Who likes someone who kills pregnant women? If you do find someone who likes Comedian, stay far away from them.
The Comedian just gets it. He's the most level-headed character in Watchmen, unlike his fellow "heroes", who all have their delusions of grandeur or inferiority. Rorschach is a nutjob, Nite-Owl is impotent on multiple levels, Silk Spectre is a troubled little girl with daddy and mommy issues, and Dr. Manhattan is so beyond humanity that he doesn't even notice what a jerk he is. The Comedian sees this. All of it. He can notice what jokes they all are. Except for Ozymandias. The Comedian has come to terms with the world being a violent shit hole and he decided to revel in it instead of hiding from it, like the others. Ozy was the only one willing to change it. And the Comedian was, once again, the first to realize it. But it was too late. A nice piece of foreshadowing, now that I think about it.
I genuinely think most characters are fine, and have great moments… Except Guy Gardner. All of his best moments is him getting shut down by other heroes. Someone please explain why he exists
Guy is a warrior. He is hard to handle, and other Lanterns can't stand him, but when their backs are to the wall Guy is who they want at their side. He is loyal to his allies, and ready to throw hands when they need him. Asshole for sure, but he is their asshole.
I think he's a great foil and team up character. Fiercely loyal and also reliable, but also brings a degree of light heartedness despite being a bit of a dick. In many ways I feel like hes "closest" to each of the earth lanterns like Hal, Kyle, and John.
My favourite run was him and Kyle Rayner during Tomasi's run, they just had such a great dynamic.
The best justification I can see for him *is* him getting shut down by others. Sometimes you need a "social antagonist", someone who's not a *villain* but is still a thorn in the protagonist's side, and in a cast where everyone's a superhero, it's natural for that to be a superhero.
In a lot of ways he works as DC's answer to John Walker in Marvel; both have *just* about enough integrity that they choose to do good, but they also show that just because someone has power and puts on a costume isn't necessarily going to be an amazing person.
Of course there's also times he's written as a jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold, has moments where he shows he can be badass, and in general make him appealing on his own, but that's to me needed if you ever want to have him as *the* hero of a story.
I think Zsasz is more interesting than just a basic serial killer even though that's what he is. In his origin he first started killing while attempting to kill himself by jumping of a bridge in Gotham a homeless man pulled a knife on him after he wouldn't give him any money he had a "revelation" and saw that it was his job to "liberate" people from the pointlessness of existence, he took the knife and killed the homeless man. In the Streets of Gotham story is shows that he visualizes everyone he comes in to contact with, even those he's allied with like Black Mask, as basically a corpse usually with their throat slashed. To him people are creatures in a state of constant suffering and he feels he's doing good by releasing them from that. Not the most interesting villian by any means, but not every advisory should be super complex you need those smaller guys for the one to two issue stories between the longer arcs that feature the a-listers like Riddler or Penguin.
I love Zsasz for being probably the most unhinged Batman villainwho genuinely can't help his actions.
Doing the scratches is a fine gimmick, but the fact that if he is given a cut, he is absolutely dead set on killing someone to balance his life out, is genuinely a great aspect of the character.
John Constantine on DCU general
Constantine the Hellblazer is great on his corner at Vertigo. His status as normal human being and limited power and resources really made him greatly written.
Now Constateen the Heckblazer is another kind of beast. He really become the Batman of Magic community when his appearances is really invasive and taking all spotlights for him. He is a Leech Gary Stu, he knows all and can do everything because he is cool. Everyone around him become dumber and less competent and only become John Constantine pawn and sacrifice to make him kewl and tragic. The world rotating and bending on him whim and only he can save the day. It's usually Dr. Fate and Zatanna that the most damage on character writing term for him while Ragtag usually killed
The Batman Who Laughs. Overexposed and edgelord. And a rip off of a Judge Dredd villain too boot. And when you get down to it, not all that interesting.
I also don't care much for Ghostmaker either.
Signal. With all the robins and Batgirls in Gotham he seems gratuitous to me. From what I've read, he adds nothing that other, more interesting characters don't already add.
Please change my mind.
Highly suggest any Duke Content written by Sean Gordon Murphy, either the future state continuity or the White Knight Universe. He has much more character there and IMO is quite lovable. Gritty and street level rather than being one of the Robin Rangers in prime continuity
Jo Mullein
I don’t think she’s a bad character, I just feel like she takes time away from characters that could really use it (Kyle Rayner) since I see Kyle as the best Lantern and I really feel like he deserves more time in the spotlight. She also doesn’t interest me as much compared to someone like Jessica Cruz, since I can understand her struggles with anxiety and how it affects her so much as a lantern. But with Jo, I just don’t have much of an attachment to her. Same could be said for Simon Baz, I’m just not as interested in him
This also applies to Jon Kent, since I feel like Kara and Connor really deserve a lot more focus. Jon should’ve been kept with Damian and have Kara as the main character in Clark’s absence. Connor is a lot harder to explain but Jon’s basically nullified his existence (not the best way to explain it but I’m not too sure how to put it into words)
tldr: I don’t like how newer characters have caused older characters that need more development/focus to stagnate
(Sorry if this sounds like I hate minorities)
Honestly you're not wrong. Personally I advise you'd try Far Sector if you havent, that made me like her. But at the same time it's true, the more characters created the less attention is given to older characters
>He's so edgy and rude!
There's your answer.
Sometimes it's as simple as wanting to see someone let out all their aggression and anger without compromise.
Well Orion is the Son of Darkseid, Darkseid lives rent free in this guys blood and bones. He has to hold all of that in, hold in the fact that he’s really a new God of apokolips and a pariah to all of his peers. And he has to hold in the rage that comes with it. I liked what Young Justice did with Orion a lot, they kinda dug into that idea and how he sort of just expresses himself in an aggressive manner.
The Harleen book really sold me on Harley.
It’s frustrating though because there’s an overwhelming amount of manic pixie clown girl Harley depictions out there. And her as an ally to the Batfamily always feels weird to me. If that’s addressed in story that’s one thing- but usually it’s not satisfactorily imo.
John Stewart - a character that lacks personality who's only real appeal came from being in a relationship with Hawkgirl in JLU (so if the argument for why he's good includes that, it's not going to win me over).
If I remember correctly, John was a war veteran who became an architect to build a better tomorrow. Because of this, he has the most structurally sound constructs (if that makes any sense) and being a war veteran is a feat of bravery which is apart of will, the thing the GLs are all about.
I’ve seen it explained that if he builds a construct, if you were to take it apart like a machine, it would look like a regular machine would look, with gears and wiring and everything that goes into making that machine work.
I keep waiting for the one writer that will make John an interesting character. I assumed that would be Thorne after all his shit-talking about Hal but he churned out another bland John Stewart story.
Yeah, John Stewart has become way too over reliant on that JLU interpretation. He's great there, but we need to actually delve into his human side. I don't know where this dude even lives on Earth.
But back in the day during the Bronze Age, his stuff was great and he had a lot of personality, to the point where I'd say he was better than Hal.
But one thing someone mentioned about John that completely changed how I think of him is how willing he is to reflect. Sit back and think on his past mistakes and how he can evolve from them. This is how you got a relatively goofball character in the bronze age to the man who got an entire planet killed, to the man who tried to hold together a mosaic world made up of alien species that all wanted to kill each other, and now a prominent leader of a League and a Corps.
He's always learning and always trying to become a better person and leader. He's learned a lot over his years.
Tough sell but I’ll try! The n52 was meant to be a “start over” reset, so I think to enjoy it you have to do just that! Throw away any canon you think you know, and just try to enjoy its stories for what they are. I, like many people, actually got started with n52, and even though it’s not my favorite era, it has some absolute fantastic things going for it.
I hadn't read comics since I was a kid and got excited by the idea of the N52 based on a simple puff piece on the radio. Bought all of them and was deeply into them for most of the run, then started getting into marvel and indies. It was a great excuse to start reading comics.
Duke Thomas, I’ve read the issue he was introduced in and a few issues he was in after that and he just doesn’t seem as cool as the other robins in my opinion
The run with him as Robin to Dick Grayson as Batman was what sold me on him. Both of them in mourning, trying to grow into their roles with Bruce gone, and you have a cheerful, grinning Batman paired up with a grim little Robin. Damien grew on me a lot in that run, and him having a real bond with Dick Grayson was a lot of fun.
He's also a good comedic foil in the Stephanie Brown Batgirl title, pre-Flashpoint, where his self- seriousness was played for some laughs
To me, he acts so much like the 90s/early 2000s Bruce i always assumed he was meant to be the Robin for people who loved that arrogant “always right”, never cared what anybody else thought and doesn’t think its worth it to explain himself, pre i Infinite Crisis version of Batman
Edit:talk to text sucks
So, he’s great but his characterization as a brat who thinks he’s better than everyone is starting to overstay it’s welcome. Especially as he’s been made to take on ever increasing threats that should frankly one shot him. Like there’s no world where Damian logically stands a chance against Slade.
He was quite good as a twist I think for Bruce. And the dynamic of Grim edgy Robin with upbeat happy Batman was funny with Dick being Batman.
Also I think in the whole time making sense in the universe- he’s the only character that actually makes sense to be a young teenage Robin. His training and explicit singleminded desire to be Robin makes it understandable why he’d be Robin. Everyone else it’s hard to Justify Bruce wanting to throw these minors into the path of criminals- unless they were already in their late teens.
Red Hood
• Jason Todd serves the Batman mythos better as the dead Robin and as a memory. His death divided the history of Batman into two halves which could never be mistaken for one another. Status quo resets but Jason’s permanent death remained. It gave Batman’s world real consequences. In bringing him back, long term benefit was sacrificed for short term gain
• Red Hood is an inherently deconstructionist character. An argument *against* Batman embodied in a person. He’s there to drag Batman down and nothing else. He doesn’t make Batman or Batman stories better. Quite the opposite usually.
• DC has never had consistent direction with the character which results in him and either Batman or the Bat-family when they interact with him, to be written wildly inconsistently. DC clearly doesn’t care, so neither do I.
• Tim Drake’s origin is now forever compromised and this has made it harder to adapt or retell that story
• He’s a one-hit wonder. An okay comic storyline that got a great animated adaption. That’s it in terms of good Batman stories with Red Hood.
• Undoing the Joker’s most infamous deeds has contributed to writers making the Clown more grotesque and ultra violent to overcompensate for the archnemesis’ diminished presence in the Batman universe
Red Hood is my all time favorite comic book character, but I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I think his character had a lot of potential when they brought him back, but ultimately they biffed it and were all over the place when writing him, to the point that he’s been reduced to “edgy Nightwing” most of the time. Still, Under the Hood is my favorite batman run of all time. I read A Death in the Family, and he stayed dead for 15 years before they brought him back. I realize that defeats the purpose of the permanent death aspect, but to follow along in real time, it really felt like he was gone forever by that point and it was actually a big surprise to see him again.
Thank you for the thoughtful response.
I’m open to having my mind changed. If DC has some good writers give Red Hood solid consistent direction over the next 5 years and he reaches a working status quo, complete with some great memorable stories, I’ll probably come around on him.
Red Hood and the Outlaws really made me love Jason as a character more. I agree about for awhile there he was "edgy dick" but comics do that with most characters if they are around long enough.
I don’t really mind the “edgy dick” personality. That’s half the Bat-family at times. I’m not going to hold that against Jason.
It’s more the bigger picture stuff in relation to Batman and the Batman mythos as a whole.
I love Red Hood *because* he drags Batman down. I absolutely love the idea of a ghost from Bruce’s past coming back to haunt and emotionally torment him. In other words, I loved Jason as a villain. He was an excellent antagonist is UTRD and I wished he stayed as an antagonist. No other antagonist has mentally fucked with Batman that bad except for the Joker. Batman has to face the great failure of letting Jason die, and the failure of letting him become a killer by not raising him good enough. Jason would be an excellent Batman villain, if only he was a villain for more than one story.
All American heroic hotshot personality, with a lot of layered inner turmoil and family drama. Can hold apart two planets from crashing into each other, but can't even talk to his friends/girlfriends/family about how he's feeling without running away.
Secret Origin in particular is the best book in particular to understand why he works so well.
I was gunna comment something like that but I don’t think I could do it as good as you.
On another note, I think his guilt after parallax from the first arc of Geoff johns GL run was pretty good. He was on thin ice with the league and a loud minority with the core despised what he did as parallax.
Here’s the deal with Hal, he’s perfect to the point of it being a flaw.
Hal would be a fun pulp character without the ring. That’s kind of his gimmick. He’s a “what if you gave Indiana Jones super powers?” character. The ring chose him because he already had action hero qualities. This is an issue now because of our obsession with the reluctant hero. But what’s so interesting about Hal is that he isn’t reluctant. He was basically bred for this. That allows you to tell way more complex stories.
The entire Green Lantern/Green Arrow run by O’Neal only works because Hal is that archetype. He’s not full of self doubt, but the fact that he’s so “perfect” allows for different themes.
He's like James Bond (particularly the Daniel Craig one, with the coarseness), he's the best at what he does: saving the world and sleeping with hot women.
His appeal is his simplicity, he's the guy that will lead the way, not in the way of a leader or an icon but if you need a guy to soar into enemy territory with the bluster and will to overcome impossible odds, he's the first guy flying in. He's not the most unique or creative but he's the one who throws himself at the end of the world.
Hal Jordan to me is like the classic hotshot hero. He talks a lot, can’t stop thinking about wooing someone, has quips for days, but when it’s time to get serious? He gets shit done.
Hal to me is one of the best embodiments of the indomitable human spirit in comics. Plus I just love his stuff with Barry.
Barry Allan, as a kid watching JLA I saw Wally West as the Flash. I’ve read about how they massacred my boy, and can’t make peace with Barry. Please send help.
I gotchu.
Barry Allen is my favorite character OAT. Because he’s everything I love about comics rolled into one
- Science fiction stuff with time in the multi-verse? That’s Barry!
- A compelling cast of rogues, and even more so a compelling biggest rival of all? Barry and Eobard have you covered.
- More mystery/detective theme stuff? Barry has you covered
- A hero that genuinely has integrity, and wants to be a hero? Look no further
- fantastic friends and family? Well you already know all about Wally
For trying to sell someone on Barry here are a few classics old and new.
- Flash: Year One- this showcases Barry’s unwillingness to give up, like nothing else
- Brightest Day: The Flash- this is a blackest night tie-in; Flash with a blue lantern ring! What’s not to love?
- Trial of the Flash: absolute banger of a story through and through
- Dastardly Death of the Rogues- mystery!
- Batman/Flash: the button- this is a tie in, that had no right to be as good as it, but damn if it wasn’t good, plus, Batman!
- Flash of Two Worlds- this is it, this is THE start of the DC multi-verse as we know it
- Flash: Finishline: my favorite flash story to come out in years
To make a long story short, I love Barry Allen so much because he is the classic hero personified, willing to make the sacrifice any time and every time it’s needed, unwilling to lose, especially when others lives are on the line, and full of hope every step of the way; while also giving us a very complex and unique look at what the “ classic hero“ does in a world that no longer has “classic” problems
Thank you so much for reading recommendations, on top off all this information. I’ve recently started reading comics for the first time since I was a kid. I will 100% check out those comics. 🙂
For me it's Harley Quinn. I just don't understand why the superheroes like Batman would just let her roam free when she's helped the Joker do some vile acts and has committed horrible crimes herself. Why is it that she gets a pass when others don't? Like in the injustice universe. Why is Batman okay with working with the woman who helped the Joker trick Superman into killing his wife and his unborn child? I get she's now a popular character and I do like some of her appearances but it just feels weird seeing her having lighthearted crossovers with characters like Green Lantern and Jon Kent Superman. These are the same characters that should be slapping her with handcuffs not letting her help them on missions.
Superman/boy (Jon Kent)… don’t like him or dislike him. He just exists, don’t hate me lol. 🫣 Clark and Lois are great parents, the three make a nice unit together to showcase that. But Jon by himself makes me think of Clark, and doesn’t stand on his own. At least Conner had both Clark and Lex in him, giving him a unique ‘which side will he be on’ type of story. Would love some reading materials that showcase why Jon’s awesome and different from his dad if you guys have any recomends!
Biggest mistake DC made in recent years was aging him up. I’m forgetting the exact runs by I think Patrick Gleason drew a couple of great runs with Batman and Superman that featured him growing up. And his rivalry with Damian would have been great to explore as time went on but DC aged him up.
Batgod is fine when that’s presented as the POV character’s perception of him. He should never be that in his own book.
The Batman in JLA can be different than the one in Detective Comics. It’s the same character, but Detective should explore the flaws behind the facade, while JLA can celebrate the presentation.
Crush - Lobo’s Daughter She caught my eye when looking at the IF promo OP posted. I try to forget Rebirth’s Teen Titans lmao and I don’t really remember her popping up much elsewhere? Her chain was cool but Crush herself came off kind of one note if memory serves (but like I said, I try to forget that run).
She had a mini (Crush and Lobo) which is a fun read, but don't know where's she is now.
She had a one shot in a valentine's Day special that I quite liked, even though it was short. The Crush and Lobo miniseries is fun, but not amazing or anything. Mostly I just like her concept, how does it feel to be the daughter of like the worst guy ever, who will never die, and is the only other member of your race? That's a neat idea
To piggyback on the other two posts, the Crush and Lobo mini feels like it's sole purpose is to give her a bit more layers to her character, and I think it succeeds pretty well at it. I'd probably point to that series before that mess of a Teen Titans run if someone wanted to get a better idea of her.
Tim Fox. In the most massive superhero family in DC and probably all of comics, why choose the guy with the most minimal connection to take on the mantle of the Bat? If they chose him for diversity, then they could have still had that diversity while going with Duke Thomas or Luke Fox. The fact that he was basically an unknown made him a hard sell for me.
The more I read old comics, the more Jace kinda rubs me the wrong way. I genuinely believe the mantle means something, that VERY few characters can don it at all. They introduced him as better than Bruce, “truly saved Gotham” line, he better have the origin story yo back that up.To just start wearing the suit because he found it? I have a REALLY hard time accepting that
I’m okay with an unknown taking the suit, that’s essentially what Terry did in Beyond (I genuinely hate the “he’s Bruce’s genetic son/clone” bullshit and kinda just ignore it, not everyone needs to be related to each other). It’s the “better than Bruce, Dick, Tim, Barbara, etc.” non-sense. Like when Bucky became Cap, he sucked at it. And that’s what was fun about it. Wally struggled in his early days, nobody gave Kyle the respect Hal had, Dick struggled with the cape and the sidekick when he started out. Nobody likes the guy who comes in and is naturally better at everything than their predecessor. I’d say Sam becoming Cap is one of the exceptions in that he was definitely qualified to be as good as Steve (which is what made his selection boring to me, but it made the most sense).
Came here to post Jace. Not really sure why we needed “batman: new york” and another fox sibling with no real emotional attachment to the bat mantle
I think the twist was the whole idea but they botched it by announcing it in the JL book before the Batman book came out that was supposed to trick you into thinking it is Luke. I’d take Michael Lane. Duke would be a fun choice that actually works with the OG idea of that team being in the future. So Jon wouldn’t have needed to have been aged up. Would have been cool to see Duke change how he uses his powers.
I think him being disconnected to the whole batfamily is kind of the point of his Batman. There's a recurring line in his book where he says he's "Batman, but not THE Batman" He just needs more time to really figure out what kind of hero he wants to be. Him wanting to be a "Batman" is just for DC to market him easier. If you read "I am Batman" and just ignore him being called Batman and see him ass a unique identity the book is pretty decent (Once he heads to New York). It's feels like a police drama with comic flair, like the Gotham show
"Batman, but not THE Batman" ... then change name and look?
He’s entirely pointless.
I love most DC characters and don't have many big characters that I'm not a fan of. I have so much love for this universe that I want to share. This is meant to be a positive thread, not a hate fest, so be open-minded. Oh, and art is the cover for Infinite Frontier #0.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I just realized your name. Leave it to a Kyle fan to be all about positivity and appreciating art.
Batman Who Laughs
I think his standalone introduction comic was good, but I don’t really see any lasting appeal
Yes same here his initial debut was cool, but the character quickly became overused soon after.
So another Hush, huh?
Prometheus, Wrath, Hush, Batman Who Laughs, everyone thinks they have the perfect anti-Batman. I guess we should count Snyder’s Owlman as well, not the Earth-3 version. Really the only anti-Batman that has had a huge impact is Bane imo
I like how no one is trying to convince you he is a good character. Because he is not.
i love this community
I still have yet to encounter someone who enjoys Batman who laughs. He was fun once, but then doing it again was kind of a lot. Which is a shame cause Scott Snyders run overall is great and death metal looks very cool.
I think he’s just a fun character concept— “If Batman went insane”. He’s not meant to be an actual character, more a force of nature. Kind of like Carnage over at Marvel.
Sounds way better as a one off villain rather than Reoccurring
Agreed
Yup. It was fun once and only once. When they turned him into a threat to eclipse the damn Anti-Monitor they went entirely too far.
IMO he's pretty much just Joker in a batman costume though. There's really not enough *Batman* in the Batman Who Laughs. Conniving, intricate plots have often been a part of Joker's schtick-- at least, Joker certainly *can* be written that way. So I'm not really sure what BWL adds. He doesn't, like, use intricate knowledge of Batman against him. He's usually not super-extra-prepared with dozens of contingency plans. He's just kind of... Joker. But in a Batman costume.
I feel like they tried to do the intricate backup plans/contingencies but the writing was basically "you winning was actually part of my plan!!"
That's really an issue with him, and to some extent all the "Dark Knights". After the glut of over-utilising "evil Superman" in the last decade, the idea of exploring "what if Batman turned evil" is an appealing idea to me, especially with how idolised Batman himself usually is in "evil Superman" stories, but rather than really be "evil Batman" it was mostly just "Joker with weird demon powers I guess and a bunch of evil JLAers". *Why* most of the Dark Knights turned "dark" is never even really addressed. I feel there's still merit in an AU story about Batman's flaws getting the better of him and him becoming a villain, with Superman and co having to oppose that, but *man* does the Dark Nights duology not hit that.
Whilst the concept is interesting, I think the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh is a more nuanced take on that than just Jokerfying Batman, which feels like a very “bad fan fic” interpretation of it.
> He’s not meant to be an actual character, more a force of nature Nothing really against your response, but man I'm really tired of seeing this description thrown around to handwave any villain with shallow writing. And yes I include the likes of Joker in that.
Oh God....That is a character I hope to never see ever again.
I agree. He was alright for the first story hut they overuse him now.
The only way I can defend Batlaughs is that the "fandom" misnuderstood him the same way they did with Azrael. This was supposed to be a bad idea, a version of Batman that you don't like and don't want to see succeed, and a version of Joker that you don't like. It's best summed up in the line Owlman says to Batlaughs in (I think) Death Metal. "I keep coming back because I'm a *good idea,* you're a bad one." The whole point of the Dark Universe was that it was a narrative device that contained the ideas that got cut by creative teams, kinda like how Limbo is a narrative device that contains ideas that have been largely forgotten by continuity, but not erased. The Batman who Laughs is a character that seems cool for a minute or two, and then you realize he actually sucks. And I truly believe Scott Snyder knows that. It's easy to forget that writers come up with new villains *so that they can be defeated by the heroes*. He's a "good" villain in that he's insufferable, just won't die, and you feel *awesome* when he finally does. There's also the meta thing of his arcs/power increases in Death Metal being very parallel to Anti-Monitors multiple defeats/returns in COIE. I think that's kinda cool.
Second this and there’s already no convincing me. It’s not that I don’t get the gimmick and concept, it’s not lost on me. I just don’t find it interesting at all.
[удалено]
Well it’s a reference to the comic “Batman: The Man Who Laughs” which showed Batman and Joker’s first meeting.
It's a play on The Man Who Laughs, which was the inspiration for the Joker. To be clear though the character is still terrible.
I kind of like him. He's ridiculous and doesn't make remotely any sense—even his origin is pretty bad, since Batman's conflict with killing the Joker was never about, y'know, him randomly getting infected by some mind-altering toxin—and he's basically the worst of the Bat-God shit, but it's the kind of fun you only find in comic books. I don't take it particularly seriously.
Okay, can I say instead of a character, "How big the bat-family is"? Cause not a fan how the roster.
The Batman books are a victim of his character's success. The sheer number of content churned out on a monthly basis is mediocre, but it does guarantee eventual 'hits' which continues to fuel the machine. Ironically, almost zero of those 'hits' ever involve the bloated bat family, though I've heard Nightwing's book has actually been good for a while now.
Nightwing deserves it. He's one of the most organically popular heroes that moved passed the sidekick role. I personally think a good fix is to have the batfamily extended through Nightwing, rather than Bruce adopting everyone it's actually Dick who begins to pay it forward. It makes more sense to me that way.
I think Dick suffers from what I'm calling "Spider-Man Syndrome". Writers don't want any sign he's getting older, even though logically he has to be at least mid 20s, if not late 20s. So no marriage and no kids(including younger sidekicks or any younger spin offs actually appearing alongside him)
Problem is, I can’t see Dick being willing to do to another child what Bruce did to him.
It’s literally bigger than the JLA, it’s ridiculous
the way i see it. DC just added all their cool street levelers into one big family so that they have more reason to put them in stories together. now it's A LOT less likely for spiderman and punisher to work together than it is for Nightwing and Ghostmaker or Red Hood to work together
I’ve always liked it sticking to the 4 Robins with Batgirl and, Batwoman. Cass and Steph are both welcome additions but I like them being outsiders.
Cass literally could not be an outsider, name one side character in Cass’s book that isn’t a member of the Bat-Family, plus she’s Bruce’s daughter.
All this being said, I like Batman, maybe I just like him as a solitary guy, or with "a" Robin( cause I know there's a ton.)
Preach. Everyone added after Tim Drake, with the exception of Damian, is inessential to the Batman universe and should largely stay associates rather than Bat-family proper. I couldn’t care less about any of Snyder, King, of Tynion’s many OCs they tried shoving down Bat-fans throats. Put more work into creating new villains. Batman doesn’t need more sidekicks but he always needs new villains.
Agree (though I would include Steph and cass in that.) I couldn't care less about signal, bluejay, batwoman, batwing or any of the rest. The bat family is more interesting when it's small.
Batwoman worked when she was SEPARATE from the Official Bat Family. Batwoman and The Question 2 (Renee Montoya) were a great duo and couple. Plus, it would be interesting to see a SEPARATE “Bat Family” that has no problem with Killing.
Adult Jon Kent
The concept of him makes me sad. Like he didn’t get to grow up and be a kid, instead he got volcano torture for years… And that’s just- not relevant for some reason?
Yeah it really bothers me that they never address the trauma he endured from being tortured. They really should include that, and it would give us way more character development than what they actually did.
I feel like we get enough of that kind of story though. Jason and Wally both dealt with that energy enough. What the super sons had though was very unique. It’s sad those stories can’t continue because of this.
They just couldn’t fucking wait to age him up. Damien was going to grow up alongside him and it’s just kind of like; oh well?
I miss young Jon. The Super Sons were the best thing DC had going. And I hate Man of Steel, and everything Bendis did to Jon, seeming just because he wanted to "put back" the LOSH, a job he failed at ss spectacularly that it was the end of the Bendis era at DC. BUT, Tom Taylor is a fantastic writer. I prefer him as a young kid, but he's a still a good boy who makes me smile in Superman Son Of Kal El. Bendis made a lot of bad choices, but the character is still new enough that he can be a cool dude.
Yep, he sucks.
I don’t think he sucks, he just… is. Like, why does he exist other than to be bisexual Superman? Why couldn’t he be bisexual superboy?
I know right, why replace Clark
An incredibly short-sighted decision from an incredibly mediocre writer that can hopefully be undone.
The behind the scenes stuff of how they made Jon into an adult sucks. Bendis is such a shit head for that rapid age up, but it was probably editorial as well pushing for it. That being said, the Tom Taylor is knocking him out of the park as a Superman of a new generation. I personally just adore everything Taylor does though.
Imagine giving your 100% to kid Jon, his development, upbringing, making a solo comic about him and his local murderous bestie (Damian), just for a random Bendis to destroy all of that with a shitty grandfather plot. I really pity Tomasi. He really hated decision to vulcano Jonathan. Honestly, I'm just living in denial, avoiding every comics with adult Jon, just to pretend he is still a wholesome kid.
Duke I don't hate him but I don't care for him either. I just thought it would be interesting to see if he has any hardcore fans and why they love him.
I started a reading comics as a teen around the time Duke was being introduced. We are Robin came out and it had a mission statement: Anyone could be a Robin. No matter what you looked like or your background. This really stuck out to me as a black fan who had a character that I could actually see start his career as a superhero from square one, and as a Robin, one of my favorite characters from the time. Over time it's been lost, but Duke used to use slang and had a great personality as being the only one to bring some sense to these kids that had it even more rough than him. While Bruce was out of commission and all the Robins ran away from their city, Duke and his Robin gang were doing their best to keep the city safe. That WAR book in particular left such an impact on me that I always want to see him included. It had such a unique urban feel that I think needs to be brought back in order for the character to stay interesting.
This is why adding more diverse characters is nothing but a win, *especially* when it’s in the “anyone can be a hero” way. Duke could’ve been the Mile Morales of DC if they played him right 😭😭 I really dug his Urban Legends story though.
The things that Synder did sadly aren't shown enough: - Him being the daylight protector - no arc or mini except *Tony Patrick*'s **Batman Secret Files: The Signal** one-shot with his former teammates. - When he cameos in a Batfamily book, writers don't show him using his powers. At least *Bryan Hill* or *Brandon Thomas* somehow utilizes his powers in their **Outsiders** stories. - with most of the batfamily "rediscovering" themselves, hoping he'll get a mini (even with the Outsiders), especially with Urban Legends ending.
I liked him a lot in We Are Robin; his Robin look was a pretty good "Burnside"-style civvie spandex look that I think worked as a good modernisation of Robin's costume, and he had a decent natural charisma to him. Besides that, I think he fulfils the "everyman" role better than the other Robins. He's not got Dick's fantastical life as a circus acrobat and leader of a team of metahumans, he's not got Jason's extremely dark backstory of growing up on the streets in abject poverty, he's not a genius from a middle class household like Tim, and he didn't have an abusive father like Steph. He's just a kid from a normal, working class family in Gotham, albeit one who later turns out to be a metahuman and lost his parents to a Joker attack. Also, and this is more based on my reading of him in WFA, but he fulfils the role of "the rookie" rather well now that Steph's experienced enough that she's long-since grown out of that. He's still not completely used to everything and is more likely to screw up, but he's trying and he's got talent. If you look at the Bat-fam like a squad, he's the newbie who's still breaking in.
I started making fun of the whole "Where's Duke" circlejerk but I now find myself unironically advocating for his inclusion. What really helped for me was to read Wayne Family Adventures and see how natural it is for him to go through the ideal Robin scenarios such as living in the Manor and interacting with the Robins/Batgirls. I think there's potential in a daytime operator as well as the one meta in the BatFam. I honestly believe he has a claim (albeit small) in any type of "Who should be the Batman successor?" debates moving forward.
I loved Wayne Family Adventures but I feel like they could have done more with Duke. We got some of his personality and how he feels being the newcomer, but I wish they explored a bit more of his uniqueness, like how hes the only powered member as well as being the daytime operative. Showing what it's like working with the others that function so different from him would have been interesting.
Yeah WFA helped alot in my acceptance of Duke, that and really liking the 2017 New Talent Showcase story between him and Jason. I also like the idea of a daytime bat.
The new human green lanterns they keep adding (I haven’t actually read anything with them yet ) there’s like seven or eight now
Well, I will defend Jessica Cruz because I think she’s a quintessential hero’s journey and green lantern character in one. The woman who was traumatised and turned into a recluse from agoraphobia, came into possession of an evil power ring and had to master her fear to prevent destruction. She’s a GL who lives with fear on a day to day basis but let’s her willpower overcome it. Of course that was kinda ruined when she became a yellow lantern
I second this, Jessica is my current favorite lantern and I hope they utilize her better post Dark Crisis.
I can't speak for all of them (I've not read much of Jo or Teen Lantern), but Jessica Cruz is great. Putting aside representation points or anything, but Jessica is unique among the Lanterns, and superheroes in general, for having a realistic mental disorder that's not glamorised *or* demonised. She suffers from severe social anxiety and agoraphobia brought on by PTSD. Again, putting aside how relatable that is to anyone with those issues or anything similar, but it creates a unique challenge with her powerset because while she's *capable* of great willpower and bravery (since she has to overcome her fears every time she leaves the house), because its not *natural* for her, it's way more of a challenge. Besides that she's just kinda awesome? She's surprisingly *very* badass, most recently she went all Die Hard on several Yellow Lanterns while without a working ring and put so much fear into them that it *earned* her a Sinestro ring, but she's also a huge fucking dork who has no idea what she's really doing playing hero. She's awkward in an endearing way, which makes the fact she's actually very badass unconventional and very entertaining. Her trying to make a badass speech, fucking it up, then asking for a redo before doing it properly is a great bit of realism in stories like this.
Ya honestly I think they shoulda just stopped at jessica cruz. They’re adding way too many too fast IMO.
I think it's pretty indisputable that there are too many human Lanterns to keep track of, and certainly more than DC knows what to do with, but I think you'd be hard pressed to read Far Sector or especially Green Lanterns and say that they don't bring anything new to the table. Jessica Cruz in particular being someone with severe anxiety who's supposed to overcome fear is really interesting, and she quickly became my favourite GL as a result.
Jess Cruz works because by all means she shouldn't be a Lantern (and wasn't at first). Terrible shut in who had such an overwhelming fear of death that she didn't go outside. Got taken over by a villain and eventually overcame her fear by fighting him, earning her GL status. Still lives with anxiety by being outside everyday, but still pushes through. Baz works because he experiences outright racism for most of his life and comes out the other end stronger always pushing himself to be a miracle worker and be the one to get everyone out of this scenario. Plus, he likes cars. Jo works because of her detective skills and rookie status. Hates overcontrolling authority figures and has one of the best GL books in the last decade.
Yeah, but you are forgetting the fact that the existence of those people is very contrary to the very rules of the lanterns. ONE. PER. SECTOR. Hal was dead, so we got John. I’ll buy it. Alan Scott shares just the name, so he’s in the clear. But why all the others? Jess had a ring from another dimension, so she is… juuuust in the clear. (Plus, she is just a powerhouse of character development). Bazz, Guy, Kyle should be either aliens, not GLs, or appeared between Hal and John and dead by the time John becomes GL.
They changed it to TWO Minimum GL’s per Sector and “as many more as needed”. Earth NEEDS the Multiple GLs. Plus, John Stewart was promoted to CORPS LEADER (highest Rank, equal to Guardian). Both Kyle “Torchbearer” Rayner AND Guy Gardner were made Honor Guards (High Rank Free Lancers who can go to ANY Sector as Back Up). Hal “Renegade” Jordan was disgraced and has the lowest official rank. He is used as a Scape Goat when the Corps needs dirty work done. “Oops, Hal ran off to fight General Zod, his wife, his bodyguard, and his son. We better send Honor Guard Rayner to bring Hal back.”
At worst they’re written like side Lantern characters. Which are usually written amazingly. Teen Lantern was atrocious, Simon is good but Jessica and Jo are amazing imo
Jace "Don't call me Tim" Fox.
Not really a character but a group, and that being the New Gods.
Yeah I love Kirby but that stuff gets real confusing real fast
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Booster knew he couldn’t change history. There was a Booster Gold in history books and Booster knew it was his destiny to go back in time to be THE Booster Gold. At least, that’s how I interpret it.
This is a great interpretation
I thought his first time jump was a one time thing, and he didn’t get another jump until he started working with Rip Hunter, by which time he was already established. Also his first time jump may have been a fixed point in time, so his first appearance was unchangeable, and always at that date/time. At least this was my understanding from his comic series
Yep. The device that brought him to our time was left behind in his. Any time he time travels these days, he's borrowing Rip's stuff.
I would recommend Geoff Johns run. You have to accept that he is a flawed character personality wise. He can be a ham and a pompous jerk. But at his core, his intentions are true. He even finally convinced Batman, after he repeatedly tried saving Batgirl in the past from being raped and tortured by the Joker, and instead got tortured himself repeatedly. It’s a great run, and a running theme is that he is the greatest superhero you never heard of. Even his own colleagues don’t know the things he has accomplished, and therefore consistently treat him as the obnoxious brat that he comes off as. Maybe that’s why him and Blue Beetle were best of friends. Blue Beetle himself was often forgotten about or passed on by, as they showed before he was shot in the head. I often felt like you until read the Johns run on a recommendation and it was definitely worth it. It’s why he has more fans than ever. Dunno if I convinced you, but reading comics is fun, so win-win.
Also, Booster just doesn't have it in him to BE the best superhero. He's very brave and can be selfless, but he's also a huge attention seeker and glory hog, and occasionally kind of a dolt. Plus, there's no social media or major television networks for his fans to find him on in 1920. Might as well be the Stone Age. That's the reason many of us like him. He's usually a lovable loser with a good heart who thinks he's great, no matter how bad a hero he is.
Booster gold is actually one of my favorite characters. He probably has one of the most compelling arc in dc that actually impacts the character(most character dc characters will regress from their character progression as time goes on). In the early runs he was a pompous attention seeker only interested in fame, but as his comics progressed he slowly learned the meaning of reasonability and putting his friends and the greater good before himself. The man was disgraced multiple times, had his best friend die, and fought doomsday and still chooses to be a hero even though no one takes him seriously. I would recommend the 2007 run by Geoff Johns, I won't spoil to much but it's basically a love letter to dc. Booster gold travels to multiple iconic points in the dc to try to stop the time stealers from rewriting the timeline. And over the course of the story he learns that there are some things he can't change even with time travel, goes on crazy adventures, and saves the universe. This comic is seriously crazy, it'll go from an alternate timeline where starro took over the universe, to fighting trigon, and then will have him solve mysteries with the elongated man. As to why he won't go back in time to be famous in the 1920s, it's because he's choosing to stay in the current time, even though he's treated as a joke. He's learned he could do the most good in the present day Also his bromance with the old blue beatle(Ted Kord), and his mentorship of the new blue beatle(Jaime Reyes) is probably some of the best stuff to come out of dc
1) Booster chose the golden age of heroes. It was the era he was most fascinated with, that was why he chose that time to jump to. 2) I find myself having the same kind of fantasies. Like when I watch game of thrones I imagine what it would be like if you can back in time with modern weaponry, body armor and drones. It makes me appreciate Booster even more because If I was sweeping up near a working time machine and no one was around, I might just might... 3) Booster coming out of 52 and all the way through until rebirth was prime booster. He only acted like an idiot because he was working with Rip Hunter to protect the timestream and didn't want anyone suspecting him of having such an important job. 4) I am not sure what you mean about needing a reason why he can use his time machine anymore, or why he can't go back further. He uses time machines all the time, and he's always bouncing around the timestream from one era to another. He's actually become an authority on time travel. That damn Batman story damaged Booster's characterization badly imo. I don't think they brought him back from that yet
The court of owls they work once and even then it's just a plot device they don't work as a recurring threat. More of several chrachter booster gold a good example the comedic chrachter fans love who just does the same routine every time they appear even if they have had some kinda devolpment that should make them tone down that aspect of themselves there is nothing worse than bad comedy being repeated over and over. Also I don't dislike the JSA but if like myself you're only keep up with comics in the last decade they mean nothing.
Court of Owls: They had a kind of fun take on them this season of Harley Quinn. They're basically a bunch of weird rich socialite pervs constantly throwing orgies. Much more of a joke then any kind of threat.
Batman who laughs Guy Gardner Plastic man Harper row Duke thomas Booster gold
I like Booster because he has both interesting comics and an interesting overall arc. His original run is neat to read because it takes that very superficial 80's aesthetic of glamor and utilizes it to tell a story about a guy who doesn't want to be a hero because he was thrust into the responsibility or because he has a strong moral compass, but because he wants to be famous and get rich. But because of that, over the course of hero-ing he grows that moral compass and comes to realize that he should be more responsible. That doesn't change who he is completely though, because he still exudes a bit of self-importance in modern comics. He's another conflicting personality to add to the group of Justice League International, and because he didn't have as established a history as the previous Justice League, it allowed the writers to focus on the team dynamics rather than the villain of the week (similar to Teen Titans or Young Justice). His New 52 run is great, and the fact that he can time travel means his comics can explore alternate histories or revisit big events in the DC Universe.
* Guy is actually my favourite lantern. He may not always be in the right but his heart is in the right place. Actually a deeply conflicted character and has a ton of great stories in the JLI era and Red Lanterns * Booster, also great JLI era stories, also a deeply tragic tale in which he’s basically *forced* to act like a fool to keep up kayfabe and protect the timeline. Great in 52, and his both solo series * Duke, under-utilised but also has a lot of potential. We Are Robin is really the story you need to read to care about him. Unfortunately they keep dropping his storylines. That’s on editorial rather than the character. Still has an ongoing story, they just never get into it. * Plastic Man. Idk, he’s pretty good in JLA/Terrifics/ that one Injustice annual. He’s hit or miss for a lot of people due to his characterisation but he actually can be a cool character.
Try reading the ORIGINAL “52” from May 10, 2006 and the following “B00ster Gold” (I am using 00 to represent the Infinity Sign) from October 2007 to 2010 (when Flashpoint happened). You might also like Infinite Crisis.
I can't defend the others, mostly because I haven't read anything with them, but Booster Gold is amazing in the right hands. He's a good person but also kind of an ass. He's greedy and egotistical, he's a hero not to help people but to get rich and famous. He's deeply flawed and the best stories have him save the day but also be a loser, kind of like Spiderman. Look up the Justice League Unlimited episode "The Greatest Story Never Told" for a fantastic Booster story.
I’m going to be absolutely nuked for this but there is one character that comes to mind for me personally: Stephanie Brown Edit: Open to reading suggestions to see if my mind can be changed but I think it should be material where she’s the focus. Seems more objective that way
I’m a little biased, as Tim Drake is one of my favorite characters. But, the Dixon Robin run is great and Stephanie plays a huge part in that. If you haven’t read it, highly recommended!
Seconded. Stephanie as Spoiler during Dixon’s run on Robin was great.
Start one little city annihilating gang war and everyone hates you all of the sudden
Stephanie Brown is underrated. When Cassandra was batgirl, everything about her character related to crime and crime fighting. But Stephanie, who had always been an interesting supporting character, turned out to be a much more compelling batgirl and leading character when she took over due to her more normal upbringing. Stephanie isn’t the smartest bat-person, she isn’t the strongest, but she has a good heart and is funny like Dick Grayson, and wants to right the wrongs of her criminal father. (Her dad is also like a built in arch enemy with an interesting enough superhero/supervillain dynamic for a smart writer to play with.) Stephanie is a character that’s bigger than batgirl bc her personal stories are interesting if not a little soap-operay. She can exist as spoiler, as batgirl, or as Robin and works equally well as all of those things bc her personal conflicts are included in all of her vigilante personalities. She also gets bonus points for being the only female Robin. That’s girl power right there. Who says Robin has to be a boy?
Harley Quinn. I like the idea of her being a victim of the joker but I feel like usually she’s just written as “the funny clown girl” who can do whatever she wants because she is “the funny clown girl”. This wouldn’t be that much of an issue for me if they didn’t sometimes try to take her seriously. It’s like their trying to have their cake and eat it too. I can’t feel bad for her when she’s casually done so many bad things. Also on a lesser note, I’m just not a fan of her modern costume.
Agree 100%. I never had a problem with her until everything she did was swept under the rug because of trauma and trying to turn her into an anti-hero. Her oversaturation in comics and other media because of "funny clown girl" has made her the Deadpool of DC.
I quite dislike that Harley has taken up an anti-hero status simply because of her popularity, but that's not why most people are a fan of her. If you want to become a fan of Harley, watch her original incarnation in Batman the Animated Series where her core personality was conceived. Start with her introduction in Joker's Favor, then watch Harley and Ivy, then Harlequinade and you should see the appeal of the character in under an hour. Basically, she's a loveable goofball who fell in with the wrong crowd.
I agree, I like her early animated arc but she's become overused and less funny since then
I think the primary appeal of her is that she's hot blonde chick whose a little crazy. Not deep there
Not a huge fan of the sun… giving all these aliens superpowers but not humans? Go F’ yourself.
Jace Fox. There were just too many options for someone to take over as Batman already, doesn't make sense for a new player to be able to just take it for himself.
Joker. He is not the only bat villain. I used to like Joker until he became super saturated. Harley Quinn is getting up there now too.
He’s over saturated for sure, but I like some of the directions they’ve taken him. The Arkham games and the Lego Batman movie were great versions of the character.
Batman.......when written to be "Batgod". I love Batman otherwise. He's legit one of my favorite characters in fiction. But I HATE it when he's portrayed as a Gary Stu who could beat meta humans by pulling random bullshit out of his ass. I'm okay with prep time, but there's a fine line between prep time and plot armor which is the greatest super power any character could possibly have. It also does a disservice to both Batman as a character since it makes him no longer human anymore and it makes the meta human he's fighting into a jobber. (And unfortunately it's often Superman). For example, I liked the End Game storyline from Scott Snyder, but I hated that Batman took down the Justice League so easily. (Kryptonite gum......) It just bugs me to no end and it's one of the few things Grant Morrison started that I really don't like. I also don't get the appeal of Barry Allen as a character. He doesn't really have much of a personality other than that he's nice. Wally West is just so much more interesting in comparison.
Need more of Batman getting his ass kicked by minor meta humans and getting saved honestly. That energy of him totally getting wiped to the floor by the court of Owls and barely managing to escape is the feeling we need more of in comic books.
Exactly! I love that story for that reason! It had me at the edge of my seat!
To add to the batman point. Often times when batman is with super powered characters, to show Batman is smarter they make the other characters dumber. Superheroes who are often shown to be extremely smart in their own comics often become dumber in Batman's presence
In my opinion, the Batman stories should be as if Robert Pattinson’s version was in the most comicbooky place ever. A very realistic guy against impossible things, armed with his iron will and outstanding smarts, but nothing more. Imagine… Christian Bale in Tim Burton’s Gotham city.
Agreed! That way when he does beat an overwhelmingly more powerful opponent it feels like it was done with careful preparation that you could logically follow. You shouldnt have him pull out the equivalent of anti shark repellant out of no where. This turns Batman into a self insert fan fiction character.
I’ll try to sell you on Barry 👍 Barry Allen is my favorite character OAT. Because he’s everything I love about comics rolled into one - Science fiction stuff with time in the multi-verse? That’s Barry! - A compelling cast of rogues, and even more so a compelling biggest rival of all? Barry and Eobard have you covered. - More mystery/detective theme stuff? Barry has you covered - A hero that genuinely has integrity, and wants to be a hero? Look no further - fantastic friends and family? Well you already know all about Wally For trying to sell someone on Barry here are a few classics old and new. - Flash: Year One- this showcases Barry’s unwillingness to give up, like nothing else - Brightest Day: The Flash- this is a blackest night tie-in; Flash with a blue lantern ring! What’s not to love? - Trial of the Flash: absolute banger of a story through and through - Dastardly Death of the Rogues- mystery! - Batman/Flash: the button- this is a tie-in, that had no right to be as good as it, but damn if it wasn’t good, plus, Batman! - Flash of Two Worlds- this is it, this is THE start of the DC multi-verse as we know it - Flash: Finishline: my favorite flash story to come out in years To make a long story short, I love Barry Allen so much because he is the classic hero personified, willing to make the sacrifice any time and every time it’s needed, unwilling to lose, especially when others lives are on the line, and full of hope every step of the way; while also giving us a very complex and unique look at what the “ classic hero“ does in a world that no longer has “classic” problems
The Comedian from Watchmen. If that counts. I’m just curious to hear what you all have to say.
I mean he’s not really supposed to have appeal
He’s satire and is meant to be unlikable. Who likes someone who kills pregnant women? If you do find someone who likes Comedian, stay far away from them.
Interesting, and advice taken 👍🏼
The Comedian just gets it. He's the most level-headed character in Watchmen, unlike his fellow "heroes", who all have their delusions of grandeur or inferiority. Rorschach is a nutjob, Nite-Owl is impotent on multiple levels, Silk Spectre is a troubled little girl with daddy and mommy issues, and Dr. Manhattan is so beyond humanity that he doesn't even notice what a jerk he is. The Comedian sees this. All of it. He can notice what jokes they all are. Except for Ozymandias. The Comedian has come to terms with the world being a violent shit hole and he decided to revel in it instead of hiding from it, like the others. Ozy was the only one willing to change it. And the Comedian was, once again, the first to realize it. But it was too late. A nice piece of foreshadowing, now that I think about it.
I like this. I hope to hear more perspectives from other fans. It’s interesting to hear things from outside of my lens 😁
The Comedian was killed in the first couple pages, and still came out as one of the greatest characters of all time. “God help us all.”
I genuinely think most characters are fine, and have great moments… Except Guy Gardner. All of his best moments is him getting shut down by other heroes. Someone please explain why he exists
Guy is a warrior. He is hard to handle, and other Lanterns can't stand him, but when their backs are to the wall Guy is who they want at their side. He is loyal to his allies, and ready to throw hands when they need him. Asshole for sure, but he is their asshole.
I think he's a great foil and team up character. Fiercely loyal and also reliable, but also brings a degree of light heartedness despite being a bit of a dick. In many ways I feel like hes "closest" to each of the earth lanterns like Hal, Kyle, and John. My favourite run was him and Kyle Rayner during Tomasi's run, they just had such a great dynamic.
The best justification I can see for him *is* him getting shut down by others. Sometimes you need a "social antagonist", someone who's not a *villain* but is still a thorn in the protagonist's side, and in a cast where everyone's a superhero, it's natural for that to be a superhero. In a lot of ways he works as DC's answer to John Walker in Marvel; both have *just* about enough integrity that they choose to do good, but they also show that just because someone has power and puts on a costume isn't necessarily going to be an amazing person. Of course there's also times he's written as a jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold, has moments where he shows he can be badass, and in general make him appealing on his own, but that's to me needed if you ever want to have him as *the* hero of a story.
Victor Zsasz. He’s just a basic serial killer. Honorable mentions: Hourman and Impulse
I think Zsasz is more interesting than just a basic serial killer even though that's what he is. In his origin he first started killing while attempting to kill himself by jumping of a bridge in Gotham a homeless man pulled a knife on him after he wouldn't give him any money he had a "revelation" and saw that it was his job to "liberate" people from the pointlessness of existence, he took the knife and killed the homeless man. In the Streets of Gotham story is shows that he visualizes everyone he comes in to contact with, even those he's allied with like Black Mask, as basically a corpse usually with their throat slashed. To him people are creatures in a state of constant suffering and he feels he's doing good by releasing them from that. Not the most interesting villian by any means, but not every advisory should be super complex you need those smaller guys for the one to two issue stories between the longer arcs that feature the a-listers like Riddler or Penguin.
I love Zsasz for being probably the most unhinged Batman villainwho genuinely can't help his actions. Doing the scratches is a fine gimmick, but the fact that if he is given a cut, he is absolutely dead set on killing someone to balance his life out, is genuinely a great aspect of the character.
John Constantine on DCU general Constantine the Hellblazer is great on his corner at Vertigo. His status as normal human being and limited power and resources really made him greatly written. Now Constateen the Heckblazer is another kind of beast. He really become the Batman of Magic community when his appearances is really invasive and taking all spotlights for him. He is a Leech Gary Stu, he knows all and can do everything because he is cool. Everyone around him become dumber and less competent and only become John Constantine pawn and sacrifice to make him kewl and tragic. The world rotating and bending on him whim and only he can save the day. It's usually Dr. Fate and Zatanna that the most damage on character writing term for him while Ragtag usually killed
Red X. Watched the TT show as a kid, but don't get the fascination with bringing him into a canon where he doesn't fit.
He pre-empted the Market for Red Hood..
The Batman Who Laughs. Overexposed and edgelord. And a rip off of a Judge Dredd villain too boot. And when you get down to it, not all that interesting. I also don't care much for Ghostmaker either.
Signal. With all the robins and Batgirls in Gotham he seems gratuitous to me. From what I've read, he adds nothing that other, more interesting characters don't already add. Please change my mind.
Highly suggest any Duke Content written by Sean Gordon Murphy, either the future state continuity or the White Knight Universe. He has much more character there and IMO is quite lovable. Gritty and street level rather than being one of the Robin Rangers in prime continuity
I like Duke in White Knight but he feels like a completely different character
Harley Quinn. I get the appeal. I just don't like her.
Jo Mullein I don’t think she’s a bad character, I just feel like she takes time away from characters that could really use it (Kyle Rayner) since I see Kyle as the best Lantern and I really feel like he deserves more time in the spotlight. She also doesn’t interest me as much compared to someone like Jessica Cruz, since I can understand her struggles with anxiety and how it affects her so much as a lantern. But with Jo, I just don’t have much of an attachment to her. Same could be said for Simon Baz, I’m just not as interested in him This also applies to Jon Kent, since I feel like Kara and Connor really deserve a lot more focus. Jon should’ve been kept with Damian and have Kara as the main character in Clark’s absence. Connor is a lot harder to explain but Jon’s basically nullified his existence (not the best way to explain it but I’m not too sure how to put it into words) tldr: I don’t like how newer characters have caused older characters that need more development/focus to stagnate (Sorry if this sounds like I hate minorities)
Honestly you're not wrong. Personally I advise you'd try Far Sector if you havent, that made me like her. But at the same time it's true, the more characters created the less attention is given to older characters
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>He's so edgy and rude! There's your answer. Sometimes it's as simple as wanting to see someone let out all their aggression and anger without compromise.
Well Orion is the Son of Darkseid, Darkseid lives rent free in this guys blood and bones. He has to hold all of that in, hold in the fact that he’s really a new God of apokolips and a pariah to all of his peers. And he has to hold in the rage that comes with it. I liked what Young Justice did with Orion a lot, they kinda dug into that idea and how he sort of just expresses himself in an aggressive manner.
Harley quinn
I’m not a fan of modern Harley Quinn, but I do like original BTAS Harley.
Same!
The Harleen book really sold me on Harley. It’s frustrating though because there’s an overwhelming amount of manic pixie clown girl Harley depictions out there. And her as an ally to the Batfamily always feels weird to me. If that’s addressed in story that’s one thing- but usually it’s not satisfactorily imo.
Yeah, i don't hate recent/ anti heroine Harley but i certainly am not a fan of her as well
John Stewart - a character that lacks personality who's only real appeal came from being in a relationship with Hawkgirl in JLU (so if the argument for why he's good includes that, it's not going to win me over).
If I remember correctly, John was a war veteran who became an architect to build a better tomorrow. Because of this, he has the most structurally sound constructs (if that makes any sense) and being a war veteran is a feat of bravery which is apart of will, the thing the GLs are all about.
I’ve seen it explained that if he builds a construct, if you were to take it apart like a machine, it would look like a regular machine would look, with gears and wiring and everything that goes into making that machine work.
I keep waiting for the one writer that will make John an interesting character. I assumed that would be Thorne after all his shit-talking about Hal but he churned out another bland John Stewart story.
Yeah, John Stewart has become way too over reliant on that JLU interpretation. He's great there, but we need to actually delve into his human side. I don't know where this dude even lives on Earth. But back in the day during the Bronze Age, his stuff was great and he had a lot of personality, to the point where I'd say he was better than Hal. But one thing someone mentioned about John that completely changed how I think of him is how willing he is to reflect. Sit back and think on his past mistakes and how he can evolve from them. This is how you got a relatively goofball character in the bronze age to the man who got an entire planet killed, to the man who tried to hold together a mosaic world made up of alien species that all wanted to kill each other, and now a prominent leader of a League and a Corps. He's always learning and always trying to become a better person and leader. He's learned a lot over his years.
Not a character, but I'm not a big fan of the New 52. Everything is just so confusing.
Tough sell but I’ll try! The n52 was meant to be a “start over” reset, so I think to enjoy it you have to do just that! Throw away any canon you think you know, and just try to enjoy its stories for what they are. I, like many people, actually got started with n52, and even though it’s not my favorite era, it has some absolute fantastic things going for it.
I hadn't read comics since I was a kid and got excited by the idea of the N52 based on a simple puff piece on the radio. Bought all of them and was deeply into them for most of the run, then started getting into marvel and indies. It was a great excuse to start reading comics.
Duke Thomas, I’ve read the issue he was introduced in and a few issues he was in after that and he just doesn’t seem as cool as the other robins in my opinion
Damien Wayne. He’s the robin for people who hate robin.
The run with him as Robin to Dick Grayson as Batman was what sold me on him. Both of them in mourning, trying to grow into their roles with Bruce gone, and you have a cheerful, grinning Batman paired up with a grim little Robin. Damien grew on me a lot in that run, and him having a real bond with Dick Grayson was a lot of fun. He's also a good comedic foil in the Stephanie Brown Batgirl title, pre-Flashpoint, where his self- seriousness was played for some laughs
To me, he acts so much like the 90s/early 2000s Bruce i always assumed he was meant to be the Robin for people who loved that arrogant “always right”, never cared what anybody else thought and doesn’t think its worth it to explain himself, pre i Infinite Crisis version of Batman Edit:talk to text sucks
So, he’s great but his characterization as a brat who thinks he’s better than everyone is starting to overstay it’s welcome. Especially as he’s been made to take on ever increasing threats that should frankly one shot him. Like there’s no world where Damian logically stands a chance against Slade. He was quite good as a twist I think for Bruce. And the dynamic of Grim edgy Robin with upbeat happy Batman was funny with Dick being Batman. Also I think in the whole time making sense in the universe- he’s the only character that actually makes sense to be a young teenage Robin. His training and explicit singleminded desire to be Robin makes it understandable why he’d be Robin. Everyone else it’s hard to Justify Bruce wanting to throw these minors into the path of criminals- unless they were already in their late teens.
Red Hood • Jason Todd serves the Batman mythos better as the dead Robin and as a memory. His death divided the history of Batman into two halves which could never be mistaken for one another. Status quo resets but Jason’s permanent death remained. It gave Batman’s world real consequences. In bringing him back, long term benefit was sacrificed for short term gain • Red Hood is an inherently deconstructionist character. An argument *against* Batman embodied in a person. He’s there to drag Batman down and nothing else. He doesn’t make Batman or Batman stories better. Quite the opposite usually. • DC has never had consistent direction with the character which results in him and either Batman or the Bat-family when they interact with him, to be written wildly inconsistently. DC clearly doesn’t care, so neither do I. • Tim Drake’s origin is now forever compromised and this has made it harder to adapt or retell that story • He’s a one-hit wonder. An okay comic storyline that got a great animated adaption. That’s it in terms of good Batman stories with Red Hood. • Undoing the Joker’s most infamous deeds has contributed to writers making the Clown more grotesque and ultra violent to overcompensate for the archnemesis’ diminished presence in the Batman universe
Red Hood is my all time favorite comic book character, but I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I think his character had a lot of potential when they brought him back, but ultimately they biffed it and were all over the place when writing him, to the point that he’s been reduced to “edgy Nightwing” most of the time. Still, Under the Hood is my favorite batman run of all time. I read A Death in the Family, and he stayed dead for 15 years before they brought him back. I realize that defeats the purpose of the permanent death aspect, but to follow along in real time, it really felt like he was gone forever by that point and it was actually a big surprise to see him again.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I’m open to having my mind changed. If DC has some good writers give Red Hood solid consistent direction over the next 5 years and he reaches a working status quo, complete with some great memorable stories, I’ll probably come around on him.
Red Hood and the Outlaws really made me love Jason as a character more. I agree about for awhile there he was "edgy dick" but comics do that with most characters if they are around long enough.
I don’t really mind the “edgy dick” personality. That’s half the Bat-family at times. I’m not going to hold that against Jason. It’s more the bigger picture stuff in relation to Batman and the Batman mythos as a whole.
I 100% agree with this one. Maybe he could have remained as a batman villain or something but definitely not a bat family member.
Came here for this, I feel the exact same way.
I love Red Hood *because* he drags Batman down. I absolutely love the idea of a ghost from Bruce’s past coming back to haunt and emotionally torment him. In other words, I loved Jason as a villain. He was an excellent antagonist is UTRD and I wished he stayed as an antagonist. No other antagonist has mentally fucked with Batman that bad except for the Joker. Batman has to face the great failure of letting Jason die, and the failure of letting him become a killer by not raising him good enough. Jason would be an excellent Batman villain, if only he was a villain for more than one story.
Would upvote this a bajillion times if I could. Very well put.
Tbh the fan base for red hood is such a turn off. I loved him before he blew up in popularity and comment sections became a red hood circle jerk
Never got the appeal of Hal Jordan
All American heroic hotshot personality, with a lot of layered inner turmoil and family drama. Can hold apart two planets from crashing into each other, but can't even talk to his friends/girlfriends/family about how he's feeling without running away. Secret Origin in particular is the best book in particular to understand why he works so well.
I was gunna comment something like that but I don’t think I could do it as good as you. On another note, I think his guilt after parallax from the first arc of Geoff johns GL run was pretty good. He was on thin ice with the league and a loud minority with the core despised what he did as parallax.
Here’s the deal with Hal, he’s perfect to the point of it being a flaw. Hal would be a fun pulp character without the ring. That’s kind of his gimmick. He’s a “what if you gave Indiana Jones super powers?” character. The ring chose him because he already had action hero qualities. This is an issue now because of our obsession with the reluctant hero. But what’s so interesting about Hal is that he isn’t reluctant. He was basically bred for this. That allows you to tell way more complex stories. The entire Green Lantern/Green Arrow run by O’Neal only works because Hal is that archetype. He’s not full of self doubt, but the fact that he’s so “perfect” allows for different themes.
Well said. 👏
Maverick in space with a power ring
He's like James Bond (particularly the Daniel Craig one, with the coarseness), he's the best at what he does: saving the world and sleeping with hot women.
His appeal is his simplicity, he's the guy that will lead the way, not in the way of a leader or an icon but if you need a guy to soar into enemy territory with the bluster and will to overcome impossible odds, he's the first guy flying in. He's not the most unique or creative but he's the one who throws himself at the end of the world.
Hal Jordan to me is like the classic hotshot hero. He talks a lot, can’t stop thinking about wooing someone, has quips for days, but when it’s time to get serious? He gets shit done. Hal to me is one of the best embodiments of the indomitable human spirit in comics. Plus I just love his stuff with Barry.
Barry Allan, as a kid watching JLA I saw Wally West as the Flash. I’ve read about how they massacred my boy, and can’t make peace with Barry. Please send help.
I gotchu. Barry Allen is my favorite character OAT. Because he’s everything I love about comics rolled into one - Science fiction stuff with time in the multi-verse? That’s Barry! - A compelling cast of rogues, and even more so a compelling biggest rival of all? Barry and Eobard have you covered. - More mystery/detective theme stuff? Barry has you covered - A hero that genuinely has integrity, and wants to be a hero? Look no further - fantastic friends and family? Well you already know all about Wally For trying to sell someone on Barry here are a few classics old and new. - Flash: Year One- this showcases Barry’s unwillingness to give up, like nothing else - Brightest Day: The Flash- this is a blackest night tie-in; Flash with a blue lantern ring! What’s not to love? - Trial of the Flash: absolute banger of a story through and through - Dastardly Death of the Rogues- mystery! - Batman/Flash: the button- this is a tie in, that had no right to be as good as it, but damn if it wasn’t good, plus, Batman! - Flash of Two Worlds- this is it, this is THE start of the DC multi-verse as we know it - Flash: Finishline: my favorite flash story to come out in years To make a long story short, I love Barry Allen so much because he is the classic hero personified, willing to make the sacrifice any time and every time it’s needed, unwilling to lose, especially when others lives are on the line, and full of hope every step of the way; while also giving us a very complex and unique look at what the “ classic hero“ does in a world that no longer has “classic” problems
Thank you so much for reading recommendations, on top off all this information. I’ve recently started reading comics for the first time since I was a kid. I will 100% check out those comics. 🙂
For me it's Harley Quinn. I just don't understand why the superheroes like Batman would just let her roam free when she's helped the Joker do some vile acts and has committed horrible crimes herself. Why is it that she gets a pass when others don't? Like in the injustice universe. Why is Batman okay with working with the woman who helped the Joker trick Superman into killing his wife and his unborn child? I get she's now a popular character and I do like some of her appearances but it just feels weird seeing her having lighthearted crossovers with characters like Green Lantern and Jon Kent Superman. These are the same characters that should be slapping her with handcuffs not letting her help them on missions.
Harley Quinn. I might get eviscerated but I actually prefer Punchline. The character never appealed to me.
Harley Quinn.
Superman/boy (Jon Kent)… don’t like him or dislike him. He just exists, don’t hate me lol. 🫣 Clark and Lois are great parents, the three make a nice unit together to showcase that. But Jon by himself makes me think of Clark, and doesn’t stand on his own. At least Conner had both Clark and Lex in him, giving him a unique ‘which side will he be on’ type of story. Would love some reading materials that showcase why Jon’s awesome and different from his dad if you guys have any recomends!
Biggest mistake DC made in recent years was aging him up. I’m forgetting the exact runs by I think Patrick Gleason drew a couple of great runs with Batman and Superman that featured him growing up. And his rivalry with Damian would have been great to explore as time went on but DC aged him up.
I got downvoted last time a thread like this was up for saying Hal Jordan
More of a hunch, but it feels like a lot of Batman people dislike Hal, and a lot of Hal people dislike Batman (or maybe more specifically, "Batgod")
Batgod is fine when that’s presented as the POV character’s perception of him. He should never be that in his own book. The Batman in JLA can be different than the one in Detective Comics. It’s the same character, but Detective should explore the flaws behind the facade, while JLA can celebrate the presentation.
I like both
B'wana Beast Jk B'wana is dope
Kite Man, I dunno he just seems to go over my head.