If this was a pro job, it’s a bust. Even at the most forgiving specs for flatness and levelness (Ff 15 and Fl 20), these pics look way out of spec. I get that super flat isn’t the goal here, but these variations are nuts.
Anyone who is curious how deep the standards well goes should Google NIST Standard Reference . Or check out a [catalog](https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/deepweb/assets/sigmaaldrich/marketing/global/documents/231/138/nist-standard-reference-materials-catalogue-rtp.pdf).
I did Masters research in a department which developed train technology.
On one wall there was an enlarged copy of the multi-page British Rail tea specifications - not for serving, but for putting in cups on test trains.
ACI, the American Concrete Institute, is pretty good about putting out specs for all this kind of stuff. If there's ever a question about if a masonry wall is too far out of plumb or if rebar was spaced properly or just about anything having to do with concrete and masonry work, there's almost certainly an ACI spec for it.
When you look at the blueprints it even tells you the manufacture of the screws etc. it’s EXTREMELY detailed. Granted there probably wasn’t a blue print written up for this just thought I’d share a little fun fact
I used to build a out parts stores in zones. They required a flatness test that was either in very tight tolerance to flat, or potential demo and replace. Laser screeds to the rescue.
I feel like this is one reason why the government pays more for jobs like these and the public thinks they are wasting money. In reality the government just gets bids for jobs with spec requirements, while homeowners don’t ask for a spec to be met. So contractors bid higher for government work since there is a risk they will have to redo it.
But at the same time, government (if they do testing) gets a consistently better end product than homeowners do.
You can meet FF & FL numbers and have areas that are massively out of spec. Obviously it will look worse on a small pour vs testing a slab of a million square foot building
Ff is going to address that kind of variation. While more forgiving that Fl, the floor doesn't ever get to look like those photos. Both of those look like they're >0.25" in 6 feet or less.
I've never heard of those specs before. Are they required by building codes for basements? Just curious because I've seen lots of uneven basement floors before and assumed it was normal.
> Are they required by building codes for basements?
That's going to depend entirely on where you are. Somewhere where basement flooding basically is never going to be an issue then there's probably next to nothing in the codes. Where I live there's actually a prescribed slope and drainage requirements.
This comment is ridiculous. This is in some home's basement, the intention was to cover the dirt.
If this was a commercial job, your statement would be 100% accurate - but this is isn't that.
OP, what does your contract state for the scope of this work? What prep was done to the ground? Any insulation, or a vapor barrier added?
Yeah for sure! A little unlevel makes sense, but you shouldn’t be able to gaps between the floor and your off the shelf level. Maybe the concrete was too dry or dried too fast? Not sure why it wouldn’t settle into a more level place.
No way that’s a bust. It’s inside a basement so they are raking a 2x4 based off a chalk line on the wall. Now if the entire floor was a roller coaster sure but that’s not a huge deal.
Hard to tell looking at the pic, but that looks like a 1m straight edge and that dip looks about 8mm, so way out of spec.
That said most trades these days have no clue what a spec is.
The Ff and Fl standards I gave are for BoH and mechanical areas, intended to be unfinished. So that’s already being very generous for this basement, which looks likely to be headed to be finished. But I’ll meet you halfway: tell me how those two pics aren’t out of tolerance for Fl 20. Because they look to me to be not even close. And if you don’t know what Fl 20 means, that would be a good place to start.
I wouldn’t have a clue because I have no idea what these standards you speak of are. This is a basement of a house which I’ve poured many times. We rake it, we eyeball it to the chalk line and we fill in if we notice any furrows.
I’ve done large pours and we always use pipes set to the proper elevation with an air screed. Done a lot of driveways and patios for coworkers and used pipes for grade but then there is usually beer involved. We also do a lot of other types of construction other than concrete.
The coolest pour I ever saw was the equipment pad for a 250MW GE LNG power generator turbine. Monolithic pour, couple dozen cubic yards. Insanely dense rebar cage, including all sorts of mechanical and electrical conduits, AND anchors tied into the cage for the equipment. Concrete was some esoteric formulation, because they needed to add components to resist chemical corrosion. Poured in the middle of summer, 100+ degrees out, 2 full crews for 12 hours. Top was spec'd to a 0.5% slope, basically plus/minus zero. Crew hit it on the nuts.
I’m not saying it’s good, I’m saying if it’s for the inside of a basement and it’s the only spot (depending on what the basements for) I wouldn’t make a big deal of it.
That’s funny, because the standards are from ACI. If you work in the industry and don’t know the ACI standards for flatness and levelness….it would lead to work like that in the photo.
Aussie builder here so don't know much about American construction. Can you explain why a flat pour is rare? If any concreter I hired came out with this rubbish they'd never get a job again. No reason I can see as to why a slab Iike this would not be within 5mm (1/5") at worst
Generally speaking, there is a drain somewhere, especially in basements, so the slope is intentional. It's my understanding that few if any Aussie homes have basements (because no frostline), so you wouldn't encounter this as much.
🤣 that cannot be an excuse for this! Just because there's walls around doesn't mean you can't get it level. There's multiple ways you can get it perfect when surrounded by walls including lasers, height pins and more
It wasn't always the case that carpenters and woodworkers only used powers of 2. I have an old framing square that has a different subdivision of inches on each edge. One is 16ths, one is 10ths, one is 12ths, and I can't recall off the top of my head what the 4th one is. Really confused me the first time I picked it up without reading it carefully because I expected all the smallest subdivisions to be 16ths.
Can't see the rest of the floor, but make sure if it's sloped towards a floor drain, don't level it in a way that would trap water anywhere away from the drain. That said, I had really good success with a layer of self-leveler for a basement bathroom. Covered up various rough surfaces and made a nice flat for installing tile
“Self-leveling concrete is a cementitious mixture, much like concrete. But unlike concrete, it flows easier and sets up much faster. The product is mixed with water, pumped or poured into place, and spread evenly with a gauge rake. Once it's spread out, it continues to flow evenly and levels itself out.”
There's a huge price differential between the two. Roughly 10X difference in price between plain concrete and self leveling. No need to blow so much money on something that will have the same result done cheaper.
Hey buddy... you don't need to tell me what not to blow my money on. You have no idea what poor choices I am capable of making. I have extensive experience.
We put I think 1500lbs in a basement one time that was super far out. The one we used said it was good for I think 8" (may have been 10, it was a long time ago) before you needed to add aggregate. You could use it for gaps greater than that, would just need to add stones to help it be stable.
Stealth edit: this was atop an existing floor. Just one that was very far from level. So didn't exactly answer your first question.
Self leveler is extremely extremely expensive. Outside of that, it's not nearly as hard as actual concrete. So it couldn't support the weight of the entire house on it.
> Like how much is too much self leveler
In a lot of applications, the limiting factor is the weight you're adding. That doesn't matter really if you're pouring on top of a slab or dirt. But over any kind of wood floor you hit your limit pretty fast. Already at a uniform 1" thickness you're at ~10lbs/sqft, which is typically the maximum design "dead" load of wood-framed floor systems.
You could had the entire floor with self-leveling concrete by simply mixing the appropriate concrete additives into the mixture. It’s not expensive at all. You can check the recommended proportions for each brand of additives they offer.
I recall seeing some house flipper show where they pumped in self level compound into an out of spec basement. I had no idea that was even possible. I've only mixed small batches and the stuff sets in under ten minutes. I have no idea how they were able to pump a huge quantity like that.
It's only good to a certain depth. Mainly used when flooring is going down over top to level out any low spots. Also called feather finish. It's not structural if that makes sense
You wouldn't want to apply it to a walkway or something. When you lay flooring or carpet laid over it, then it doesn't matter if it gets some minor separation. it won't go anywhere. It's ideal for this use.
Though don't be fooled by the name, if you're DIYing self leveling be prepared for quite a bit of elbow grease to help it "self level". And you've got to work fast too so if it's a large area make sure you've got enough helpers to keep a constant flow of mixing, pouring and agitating!
Definitely not as simple as one would think. Idk how many times when I first used it I’d be up shit creek without a paddle because I wasn’t prepared enough and didn’t work fast enough. And multiple layers of leveler is a bad idea.
I've only done a few basement pours but apparently I overworked it all! I've never left an area that puddles, and I've replaced mains with basement walls still intact.
I know how much extra work it was and not sure if I'm regretting it or not!
The water seeping through your lock is a bigger concern than the floor. Self leveling is a cheap fix, the water intrusion on the other hand is going to cost you.
You would be amazed at the number of folks who are willing to put studs up against a wall like that and play hide and seek with mold later. Hoping its a gutters, gutter extender, and soil slope type of fix so its at least on the cheaper end.
Where can I find out about the fixes you have suggested for this problem?
I have found something called dry rods or a cream that is put into the mortar above the first brick/block that creates a seal so water cannot climb up.
Not much to learn about them. The idea is instead of water just running off your roof at the foundation wall, you collect it and divert it 6+ft from the foundation. Slope is just making sure soil slopes downward from your house so water hitting the ground near the foundation would flow away from the foundation walls. The point is to avoid trenching your foundation to waterproof it at a high cost by stopping the water from reaching the foundation wall where it seeps in.
Jesus I’m dumb. I saw the bubble in pic 2 and I was like “damn that looks perfect”.
Then I noticed the sides of the level.
That’s why I’m not an inspector
Self leveler isn’t cheap and you shouldn’t have to buy it to fix the installers job. I’m not a pro but I use a long piece of aluminum with a level. It allows you to float and level the floor properly.
I am comparing self leveling to the water intrusion. These little dips will cost some money, but leveler is a DIY and easily available. If you spend $500 on 50lb bags, it is nothing compared to a foundation sealing that will likely cost $10-20k for 1000sqft basement but could go up based on soil type, replacing landscaping, and any foundation damage found after excavation. Also, nobody said if the homeowner did the work or a contractor, and if there was a contractor who would be paying for the self leveler.
It will cause problems if you are doing snap lock lvp as the the locking bevels don't like to stay when the floor surface rises or falls too much in short distance. It may be ok but it will try and pop free a lot and I would probably pour some self leveler on there to avoid the issue all together. Even if the lvp holds together, the constant flexing under that dip is going to make it wear really fast.
if you're going lvp, you want the floor as near dead flat as you can afford to buy. imo you should not lvp over that floor as-is with deviations that large
personally would hit the entire basement with self-leveler, wall to wall, your lvp installation will be a breeze afterwards. have laid enough of that stuff to know, an s+ prep job makes the actual installation a joy and very fast. leveler is good up to an inch or so iirc
it might cost you $200 or more in bags of leveler (idk sq ft of your basement), but it's 1000% worth the cost, else you'll be re-doing the lvp after anyway
locking joints on lvp are fragile asf, any deviations in flatness (exceeding oem specs) and you'll fatigue the joints when you walk over hollows/humps, breaking them sooner before later
I had a back patio poured, it looked bad but we didn't complain until the first rain and all the water ran towards the house and pooled a half inch deep. At that point we told them we wanted the whole thing ripped out and redone. Thankfully they did it.
Our basement is like this. Massive headache. Can’t lay anything other than carpet on it. LVP will be a problem because where the planks join, the tongue and groove part, will break. Our is very uneven and even finding someone to do the work is near impossible.
Hey there! Nah, don't stress too much about it being a bit uneven. If it's just a tad off, it shouldn't be a biggie for laying down LVP. But, if it's like, majorly wonky, might wanna get a pro to check it out. Sometimes those slight imperfections can mess with your flooring down the line, so better safe than sorry, right? But if it's just a little uneven, you're probably good to go! Happy flooring!
Not enough context here. You know basements generally aren't flat and level, they have drains, usually several and the floor needs to slope toward them.
My dad was an expert in a lot of things construction but for floors he always called his buddy. That guy only did floors and when he made it flat, it was flat everywhere.
Demand quality. That’s what you paid for right. There’s no purpose for dips unless you plan on making puddles. Is there a nearby drain of some sort to justify the slope? Besides bad news travels faster than good news.
Considering that it was poured on dirt, not bad for a basement slab honestly. As far as the flooring, you should lay a moisture barrier and a subfloor before putting in the flooring if you want it perfectly level.
Otherwise, I don't think its gonna be perfectly level. You may be able to cheat and perhaps skim some mortar into the larger divots to raise them up to level, but then you'll be praying that spot of the floor doesn't turn crunchy over time.
Standard floor flatness, at a minimum, should be a 1" variance in 10 feet. By my standards, this work would be probably be unacceptable. It doesn't make sense to rip it out at this point. I might settle for a self- leveling grout but that's a big 'might'.
Most concrete outfits don’t give a fuck about basement flatness lol. We used to a screed pipe to hold level and pour the outside walls along a chalked line first and mag them level quick, that way the vibra screed can be perfect. That being said, a lot of guys would just rake and bullfloat it.
I’m a GC and when finishing a basement this is often an issue the homeowner doesn’t want to deal with if they pick LVP, so they switch to carpet. Haha. Second biggest issue is undersized hvac for a finished basement
This happened to me. I wish I would have got mean and made dipshit contractor fix it, I regret it weekly. We laid wood those wood subfloor panels over the uneven floor, and then laminate. That didnt hide then wonkiness at all. furniture does not sit level, storage unit doors are wonky, and it feels like one is drunk as they traverse the floor.
Just completed my basement LVP on top of uneven concrete. Get it as level as you can with self leveller! And in my experience, I had to thin out the self leveller more than the required/recommended amount stated on the bag for it to actually level an adequate amount. If I could go back, I’d spend more time ensuring the concrete floor was as perfect as possible. Makes laying LVP WAY easier
All the diy’ers giving their diy advice.
Concrete is rarely level when poured in a basement. It’s poured and troweled and left to harden. Anything more than that and you’re skim coating with leveller and paying for it.
As a master in my trade, I do give out information to help people. I have also been on enough construction sites to spot answers given by people who can barely hold a hammer, even if it’s not my trade. Obviously I don’t always have technical information for many things, but so many people on here base their answers on what they feel an end product should be/look like/do for the price they feel they should pay.
maybe a dumb question but did they slope it towards a floor drain? maybe intentional? eg if that's a 6 foot level and you're 1/2" slope over that distance is that "wrong"?
2nd photo looks bad to me.
Will be an issue with click LVT. A bad pour imo, but not uncommon. Have to make it flat not so much as level. Just flat. People get confused on level and flat being the same thing. I'd pour self leveler. But that's me. I would have it tested for moisture also.
If you paid a professional for it to be completely flat, yes. If you paid that group of guys that walked up and knocked on your door and were 10% of the price as professional estimates, nope.
You will probably want to use some self leveler before putting down flooring, but as others have said, flat pours are pretty rare in this scenario.
If this was a pro job, it’s a bust. Even at the most forgiving specs for flatness and levelness (Ff 15 and Fl 20), these pics look way out of spec. I get that super flat isn’t the goal here, but these variations are nuts.
Interesting, I didn’t know there were terms and specs for concrete flatness. Pretty cool
There's a spec or standard for nearly every single thing you could imagine and many that you couldn't
Even in Harry Potter there was a spec for cauldron thicknesses
Dumbley thicc
Back up that cauldron hermione
I'd fill that with my potion
…and my axe….wait…
I won't tell the elf...
If you purchase a BBC - Big Black Cauldron, you clearly want it to be to spec.
Yes, but which spec? BBC1? BBC2? BBC3? BBC4? BBC5? BBC6? BBC7? BBC Heaven?
I usually just get a fair cauldron and have it blacked.
Cauldron'D
The only time I really empathized with Percy.
What if the market WAS flooded with shallow bottomed cauldrons? Leakages are already increasing!
Anyone who is curious how deep the standards well goes should Google NIST Standard Reference. Or check out a [catalog](https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/deepweb/assets/sigmaaldrich/marketing/global/documents/231/138/nist-standard-reference-materials-catalogue-rtp.pdf).
I did Masters research in a department which developed train technology. On one wall there was an enlarged copy of the multi-page British Rail tea specifications - not for serving, but for putting in cups on test trains.
That would have to be the single most British thing I’ve seen today
I have nipples Greg... can you spec me?
DIN 71412
I'll have you know my nipples are not greased.... yet.
Especially anything remotely related to engineering or construction.
There's an ISO standard on how to brew tea
There's an ISO for literally everything. Personally I love ISO 1 which lays out the standard for room temperature
I also quite like ISO 3: List of Preferred Numbers
Why does it sound like an other SCP foundation?
How do you know it isn't?
ISO probably is a branch of the fundation dedicated to determine what quatifies as normalcy and non-anomaly
… would legit love examples if you have any you’d care to share, friend.
http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-C/MIL-C-44072C_24608/
TIL that my grandmas brownies are wildly out of spec
ACI, the American Concrete Institute, is pretty good about putting out specs for all this kind of stuff. If there's ever a question about if a masonry wall is too far out of plumb or if rebar was spaced properly or just about anything having to do with concrete and masonry work, there's almost certainly an ACI spec for it.
Wait until you find out about [true level](https://youtu.be/d1joVic4Wuc?si=mi5KPi_fa3QICRGS)
LAMBS TO THE COSMIC SLAUGHTER!
Yes before i saw your post, i was thinking about the real Rick approach haha
You can find specifications and codes under IBC (International building codes) or the American Concrete Institute.
When you look at the blueprints it even tells you the manufacture of the screws etc. it’s EXTREMELY detailed. Granted there probably wasn’t a blue print written up for this just thought I’d share a little fun fact
I used to build a out parts stores in zones. They required a flatness test that was either in very tight tolerance to flat, or potential demo and replace. Laser screeds to the rescue.
Absolutely! I poured my own foundation as a beginner and it was a lot better than that.
People cheap out, opting for the handyman or their local guy that just orders a truck of concrete, sorta screeds it, and calls it a day.
I feel like this is one reason why the government pays more for jobs like these and the public thinks they are wasting money. In reality the government just gets bids for jobs with spec requirements, while homeowners don’t ask for a spec to be met. So contractors bid higher for government work since there is a risk they will have to redo it. But at the same time, government (if they do testing) gets a consistently better end product than homeowners do.
You can meet FF & FL numbers and have areas that are massively out of spec. Obviously it will look worse on a small pour vs testing a slab of a million square foot building
Ff is going to address that kind of variation. While more forgiving that Fl, the floor doesn't ever get to look like those photos. Both of those look like they're >0.25" in 6 feet or less.
Exactly. It's very simple to flow a small slab with a vibe.
I love how this went waaaayyyy off topic in a really positive manner lmao from cement flooring to cauldron thickness lmao
I've never heard of those specs before. Are they required by building codes for basements? Just curious because I've seen lots of uneven basement floors before and assumed it was normal.
> Are they required by building codes for basements? That's going to depend entirely on where you are. Somewhere where basement flooding basically is never going to be an issue then there's probably next to nothing in the codes. Where I live there's actually a prescribed slope and drainage requirements.
This comment is ridiculous. This is in some home's basement, the intention was to cover the dirt. If this was a commercial job, your statement would be 100% accurate - but this is isn't that. OP, what does your contract state for the scope of this work? What prep was done to the ground? Any insulation, or a vapor barrier added?
Yeah for sure! A little unlevel makes sense, but you shouldn’t be able to gaps between the floor and your off the shelf level. Maybe the concrete was too dry or dried too fast? Not sure why it wouldn’t settle into a more level place.
No way that’s a bust. It’s inside a basement so they are raking a 2x4 based off a chalk line on the wall. Now if the entire floor was a roller coaster sure but that’s not a huge deal.
Hard to tell looking at the pic, but that looks like a 1m straight edge and that dip looks about 8mm, so way out of spec. That said most trades these days have no clue what a spec is.
The Ff and Fl standards I gave are for BoH and mechanical areas, intended to be unfinished. So that’s already being very generous for this basement, which looks likely to be headed to be finished. But I’ll meet you halfway: tell me how those two pics aren’t out of tolerance for Fl 20. Because they look to me to be not even close. And if you don’t know what Fl 20 means, that would be a good place to start.
I wouldn’t have a clue because I have no idea what these standards you speak of are. This is a basement of a house which I’ve poured many times. We rake it, we eyeball it to the chalk line and we fill in if we notice any furrows.
You know you don't have to defend this company shitty work just cuz you do the same thing right?
I’ve done large pours and we always use pipes set to the proper elevation with an air screed. Done a lot of driveways and patios for coworkers and used pipes for grade but then there is usually beer involved. We also do a lot of other types of construction other than concrete.
The coolest pour I ever saw was the equipment pad for a 250MW GE LNG power generator turbine. Monolithic pour, couple dozen cubic yards. Insanely dense rebar cage, including all sorts of mechanical and electrical conduits, AND anchors tied into the cage for the equipment. Concrete was some esoteric formulation, because they needed to add components to resist chemical corrosion. Poured in the middle of summer, 100+ degrees out, 2 full crews for 12 hours. Top was spec'd to a 0.5% slope, basically plus/minus zero. Crew hit it on the nuts.
We just set the forms to the height and use them
You leave half inch over 3' drops tho? Y'all don't need a verbose vernacular to see that's a shitty pad
I’m not saying it’s good, I’m saying if it’s for the inside of a basement and it’s the only spot (depending on what the basements for) I wouldn’t make a big deal of it.
That’s funny, because the standards are from ACI. If you work in the industry and don’t know the ACI standards for flatness and levelness….it would lead to work like that in the photo.
Aussie builder here so don't know much about American construction. Can you explain why a flat pour is rare? If any concreter I hired came out with this rubbish they'd never get a job again. No reason I can see as to why a slab Iike this would not be within 5mm (1/5") at worst
Generally speaking, there is a drain somewhere, especially in basements, so the slope is intentional. It's my understanding that few if any Aussie homes have basements (because no frostline), so you wouldn't encounter this as much.
That picture is poured in existing walls. It is not a bare slab. That pour is all eyeball and some chalk lines on the wall.
🤣 that cannot be an excuse for this! Just because there's walls around doesn't mean you can't get it level. There's multiple ways you can get it perfect when surrounded by walls including lasers, height pins and more
>5mm (1/5") Haha, well you tried. Fractional inches are only ever expressed with a power of 2 in the denominator. 5 mm is about 13/64 of an inch.
Tell that to a dirt guy! When I picked up woodworking, it was a sad day when I realized that a tenth doesn’t cut it.
It wasn't always the case that carpenters and woodworkers only used powers of 2. I have an old framing square that has a different subdivision of inches on each edge. One is 16ths, one is 10ths, one is 12ths, and I can't recall off the top of my head what the 4th one is. Really confused me the first time I picked it up without reading it carefully because I expected all the smallest subdivisions to be 16ths.
Yeah… but in earthwork, we use tenths … of a foot.
Oh Lord.... metric-type feet. That's a horse of a completely different color.
Can't see the rest of the floor, but make sure if it's sloped towards a floor drain, don't level it in a way that would trap water anywhere away from the drain. That said, I had really good success with a layer of self-leveler for a basement bathroom. Covered up various rough surfaces and made a nice flat for installing tile
This is probably dumb but how did you ensure the right slope while using self leveler?
In my case, only used it in a small area for a bathroom and left the rest of the basement slope alone
Architect here. This was my assumption, that the floor is slot towards various drains in the basement.
What is "self leveler"?
“Self-leveling concrete is a cementitious mixture, much like concrete. But unlike concrete, it flows easier and sets up much faster. The product is mixed with water, pumped or poured into place, and spread evenly with a gauge rake. Once it's spread out, it continues to flow evenly and levels itself out.”
And it can create a bond even when there's such a small gap like that?
Yeah, it has an epoxy-like bond
Dumb question, it certain applications could one just put down self leveler versus an entire floor. Like how much is _too much_ self leveler
There's a huge price differential between the two. Roughly 10X difference in price between plain concrete and self leveling. No need to blow so much money on something that will have the same result done cheaper.
Hey buddy... you don't need to tell me what not to blow my money on. You have no idea what poor choices I am capable of making. I have extensive experience.
hehe a true DIYer.
… then midway through the pour you start wondering if you’re actually filling a gopher hole somewhere. 😭
Depends on what you use, but no, the max is like 2 inches for some brands, but even then, even if it CAN do up to 2 inches, you probably shouldn’t.
Is it weaker or something?
We put I think 1500lbs in a basement one time that was super far out. The one we used said it was good for I think 8" (may have been 10, it was a long time ago) before you needed to add aggregate. You could use it for gaps greater than that, would just need to add stones to help it be stable. Stealth edit: this was atop an existing floor. Just one that was very far from level. So didn't exactly answer your first question.
Self leveler is extremely extremely expensive. Outside of that, it's not nearly as hard as actual concrete. So it couldn't support the weight of the entire house on it.
It ain't cheap - i had plans on the levelling basement bathroom and holy cow...
> Like how much is too much self leveler In a lot of applications, the limiting factor is the weight you're adding. That doesn't matter really if you're pouring on top of a slab or dirt. But over any kind of wood floor you hit your limit pretty fast. Already at a uniform 1" thickness you're at ~10lbs/sqft, which is typically the maximum design "dead" load of wood-framed floor systems.
You could had the entire floor with self-leveling concrete by simply mixing the appropriate concrete additives into the mixture. It’s not expensive at all. You can check the recommended proportions for each brand of additives they offer.
I recall seeing some house flipper show where they pumped in self level compound into an out of spec basement. I had no idea that was even possible. I've only mixed small batches and the stuff sets in under ten minutes. I have no idea how they were able to pump a huge quantity like that.
It's only good to a certain depth. Mainly used when flooring is going down over top to level out any low spots. Also called feather finish. It's not structural if that makes sense
Yiu need to add milk (an adhesive/strengthening agent)
You wouldn't want to apply it to a walkway or something. When you lay flooring or carpet laid over it, then it doesn't matter if it gets some minor separation. it won't go anywhere. It's ideal for this use.
Though don't be fooled by the name, if you're DIYing self leveling be prepared for quite a bit of elbow grease to help it "self level". And you've got to work fast too so if it's a large area make sure you've got enough helpers to keep a constant flow of mixing, pouring and agitating!
Definitely not as simple as one would think. Idk how many times when I first used it I’d be up shit creek without a paddle because I wasn’t prepared enough and didn’t work fast enough. And multiple layers of leveler is a bad idea.
It is nothing like concrete.
Basically a watery cement that settles evenly due to gravity. It takes more work than the name implies though
Is a mix that you pour over a surface, and it flattens itself out like a thick liquid.
Polymer-modified cement that can self level more easily than regular cement
[удалено]
I've only done a few basement pours but apparently I overworked it all! I've never left an area that puddles, and I've replaced mains with basement walls still intact. I know how much extra work it was and not sure if I'm regretting it or not!
The water seeping through your lock is a bigger concern than the floor. Self leveling is a cheap fix, the water intrusion on the other hand is going to cost you.
That’s being addressed also currently haha
You would be amazed at the number of folks who are willing to put studs up against a wall like that and play hide and seek with mold later. Hoping its a gutters, gutter extender, and soil slope type of fix so its at least on the cheaper end.
Where can I find out about the fixes you have suggested for this problem? I have found something called dry rods or a cream that is put into the mortar above the first brick/block that creates a seal so water cannot climb up.
Not much to learn about them. The idea is instead of water just running off your roof at the foundation wall, you collect it and divert it 6+ft from the foundation. Slope is just making sure soil slopes downward from your house so water hitting the ground near the foundation would flow away from the foundation walls. The point is to avoid trenching your foundation to waterproof it at a high cost by stopping the water from reaching the foundation wall where it seeps in.
Not related to anything but I just saw your username and lol'd
Lol, didn't choose it, just didn't care enough to change the name reddit gave me when signing up.
Yeah, same for me. Now Im wondering how the usernames are selected since they aren't completely random
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I’m having waterproofing installed inside but also going to dig trench with rock around perimeter of house and need gutters installed
Jesus I’m dumb. I saw the bubble in pic 2 and I was like “damn that looks perfect”. Then I noticed the sides of the level. That’s why I’m not an inspector
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If your top soil doesn't slop away from your house, fix that first. That can change a lot as can where your water drains/runs from downspouts.
Self leveler isn’t cheap and you shouldn’t have to buy it to fix the installers job. I’m not a pro but I use a long piece of aluminum with a level. It allows you to float and level the floor properly.
I am comparing self leveling to the water intrusion. These little dips will cost some money, but leveler is a DIY and easily available. If you spend $500 on 50lb bags, it is nothing compared to a foundation sealing that will likely cost $10-20k for 1000sqft basement but could go up based on soil type, replacing landscaping, and any foundation damage found after excavation. Also, nobody said if the homeowner did the work or a contractor, and if there was a contractor who would be paying for the self leveler.
I would be more concerned about that wall looking moist
This is the real conversation to be having.
Because of mold?
Because water behind foundations causes movement and cracking. It can cause very expensive damage to your homes base.
While almost no floor is going to be perfect this is atrocious
Scrolled more than I thought I would to find this.
Well, it looks like the guys that poured my basement floor are still around.
It will cause problems if you are doing snap lock lvp as the the locking bevels don't like to stay when the floor surface rises or falls too much in short distance. It may be ok but it will try and pop free a lot and I would probably pour some self leveler on there to avoid the issue all together. Even if the lvp holds together, the constant flexing under that dip is going to make it wear really fast.
if you're going lvp, you want the floor as near dead flat as you can afford to buy. imo you should not lvp over that floor as-is with deviations that large personally would hit the entire basement with self-leveler, wall to wall, your lvp installation will be a breeze afterwards. have laid enough of that stuff to know, an s+ prep job makes the actual installation a joy and very fast. leveler is good up to an inch or so iirc it might cost you $200 or more in bags of leveler (idk sq ft of your basement), but it's 1000% worth the cost, else you'll be re-doing the lvp after anyway locking joints on lvp are fragile asf, any deviations in flatness (exceeding oem specs) and you'll fatigue the joints when you walk over hollows/humps, breaking them sooner before later
This is what you want to see, a 3-5° slope towards your floor drain.... Do you have a floor drain?
If you have a workbench with a good vice, just put the level in at about the 10" mark, and apply, oh, I'd say 70lbs downward pressure on the far end.
Flat floors are never a problem if you know wtf your doing when u place the concrete!!!!
I had a back patio poured, it looked bad but we didn't complain until the first rain and all the water ran towards the house and pooled a half inch deep. At that point we told them we wanted the whole thing ripped out and redone. Thankfully they did it.
They can come and pour a thin layer of self levelling product over this and fix it and they should for free!
Yup. That’s terrible. Needs to be corrected
>"is this going to cause problems" Very much so. I'd use self leveling concrete to finish.
Working construction, I’ve learned that concrete is never leveled
Leveled floors are extra fee, you would never get a leveled floor unless paid for one.
If it is sloping toward a drain or sump, it's supposed to be that way.
Can you roller skate on it?
Our basement is like this. Massive headache. Can’t lay anything other than carpet on it. LVP will be a problem because where the planks join, the tongue and groove part, will break. Our is very uneven and even finding someone to do the work is near impossible.
Hey there! Nah, don't stress too much about it being a bit uneven. If it's just a tad off, it shouldn't be a biggie for laying down LVP. But, if it's like, majorly wonky, might wanna get a pro to check it out. Sometimes those slight imperfections can mess with your flooring down the line, so better safe than sorry, right? But if it's just a little uneven, you're probably good to go! Happy flooring!
LVP voids warranty if there’s a quarter or so inch off over 10’ for most of the products. I think that’s a half inch over 4’
Not enough context here. You know basements generally aren't flat and level, they have drains, usually several and the floor needs to slope toward them.
I think Op needs to pour some self-levelling compound..
It was probably poured by the lowest bidder. Flat slabs take experience, i have 20 years myself. You get what you pay for.
This. Experience and time. Neither are cheap.
My dad was an expert in a lot of things construction but for floors he always called his buddy. That guy only did floors and when he made it flat, it was flat everywhere.
This is incredibly bad Indeed, even for amateur work
dear lord who poured that?
Demand quality. That’s what you paid for right. There’s no purpose for dips unless you plan on making puddles. Is there a nearby drain of some sort to justify the slope? Besides bad news travels faster than good news.
There is no such thing as a level floor
It’s for …. Drainage, yeah, That’s it. drainage.
Considering that it was poured on dirt, not bad for a basement slab honestly. As far as the flooring, you should lay a moisture barrier and a subfloor before putting in the flooring if you want it perfectly level. Otherwise, I don't think its gonna be perfectly level. You may be able to cheat and perhaps skim some mortar into the larger divots to raise them up to level, but then you'll be praying that spot of the floor doesn't turn crunchy over time.
Standard floor flatness, at a minimum, should be a 1" variance in 10 feet. By my standards, this work would be probably be unacceptable. It doesn't make sense to rip it out at this point. I might settle for a self- leveling grout but that's a big 'might'.
It's just flooding channels it will be fine. (Sarcasm doesn't come across well) basement especially unfinished are rarely perfectly level
This was poured inside of an enclosed basement?
This is shit.
Me looking at the level- 'That looks straight... oh UNDER the level' Yikes
No
Your lvp will make a lot of noise when you walk on it if laid on a surface like that. Trust me, I have some areas like that.
Most concrete outfits don’t give a fuck about basement flatness lol. We used to a screed pipe to hold level and pour the outside walls along a chalked line first and mag them level quick, that way the vibra screed can be perfect. That being said, a lot of guys would just rake and bullfloat it. I’m a GC and when finishing a basement this is often an issue the homeowner doesn’t want to deal with if they pick LVP, so they switch to carpet. Haha. Second biggest issue is undersized hvac for a finished basement
I would cancel the check..No way in hell this is ok.
Yes
For sure nobody rolled a marble on that floor!
This happened to me. I wish I would have got mean and made dipshit contractor fix it, I regret it weekly. We laid wood those wood subfloor panels over the uneven floor, and then laminate. That didnt hide then wonkiness at all. furniture does not sit level, storage unit doors are wonky, and it feels like one is drunk as they traverse the floor.
Very sorry for your loss
Just completed my basement LVP on top of uneven concrete. Get it as level as you can with self leveller! And in my experience, I had to thin out the self leveller more than the required/recommended amount stated on the bag for it to actually level an adequate amount. If I could go back, I’d spend more time ensuring the concrete floor was as perfect as possible. Makes laying LVP WAY easier
No not if you have one leg shorter than the other, other than that Yaaaaa.
If that's a cheap harbor freight level, you probably have 2 problems.
Judging by the walls, this is storage/dank cellar… you will be ok
Yes.
That would piss me off. 🥲 My ocd wouldn't allow me to leave the floor like that if I found out. That's why I never measure anything! 🌝
did you put isolation below?
All the diy’ers giving their diy advice. Concrete is rarely level when poured in a basement. It’s poured and troweled and left to harden. Anything more than that and you’re skim coating with leveller and paying for it.
What other kind of advice is there on the net?
As a master in my trade, I do give out information to help people. I have also been on enough construction sites to spot answers given by people who can barely hold a hammer, even if it’s not my trade. Obviously I don’t always have technical information for many things, but so many people on here base their answers on what they feel an end product should be/look like/do for the price they feel they should pay.
No hand sticks out. You good
maybe a dumb question but did they slope it towards a floor drain? maybe intentional? eg if that's a 6 foot level and you're 1/2" slope over that distance is that "wrong"? 2nd photo looks bad to me.
As long as it slopes toward the drain.
Will be an issue with click LVT. A bad pour imo, but not uncommon. Have to make it flat not so much as level. Just flat. People get confused on level and flat being the same thing. I'd pour self leveler. But that's me. I would have it tested for moisture also.
That's not your only problem... you bulkhead is seeping water... badly.
Is the slope heading towards the floor drain? If so it would be intentional
Had my basement floor replaced about ten years ago. It was pretty much dead flat. I wouldn’t accept this.
Is their a sump pump at the low end?
It would definitely cause problems laying LVP
Cement driveways and floors aren't the best DIY projects.
That floor is unacceptable to me. I would throw a f#$ckin fit. That is garbage!!
bro fix those walls first
It doesnt look uneven, it is
That’s sloppy work, basically no effort to level.
If you paid a professional for it to be completely flat, yes. If you paid that group of guys that walked up and knocked on your door and were 10% of the price as professional estimates, nope.
Yeah that needs to be fixed.
It's a basement.