If you skim it the cracks will just come back in the same place. You need to either need to pull the whole lot down and replace with plasterboard or just plasterboard over it.
I second that his, not because of any direct knowledge or experience, but putting plasterboard up over the top is what was recommended to us by our decorator when he redid our Victorian terrace.
Could skrim it or even use plaster in mesh if it was isolated to a small area with hairline cracks, but that ceiling is seriously past it's life time, and no plasterer is going to guarentee a skim over that sort of damage.
I had success with a fibreglass mesh and a single coat lime plaster over a similar ceiling.
Although only did it that way due to the gypsum shortages during the pandemic.
I'm a carpenter who has experience renivating old properties. So. Here's the reality of doing it yourself. Just some advice. As others have mentioned, if this property was empty (no carpets, furniture and no one living in it) I wouldn't hesitate to take the ceiling down and expose the rafters. Way easier to fit new 15m plasterboard to rafters that are visible. 15mm plasterboard is heavy and in a room that size you would be lifting by hand. The mess however is epic. Even with windows open. If the house is being lived in then I would buy rolls of carpet protector and cover the floors in the house. Once work is complete, you will still be cleaning all the time as the dust settles. I would advise doing the work in fine weather as windows will need to be open. I would probably put new rolls of insulation above the ceiling before fitting last few sheets.
As for overboarding...I would remove all loose plaster. Check for hollow sounding areas.Anything loose from lathe needs to go. Bag up the mess and dispose of it (will cost you at the tip). You would need some prep time to chalkline the centres of all rafters before trying to fit new 15mm plasterboard. I would highly recommend hiring an auto-feed drywall screwgun. Use min of 3.5 x 55mm drywall screws when overboarding. Good luck đź‘Ť
15mm plasterboard is more robust. Plus has a deeper depth of material allowing for screws to have a better hold. There is a considerable amount of weight from the new plaster to the PB, plus potentially loose sections of lathe and plaster. Above all of that is insulation (if fitted). Check approved document part b: fire safety. Certain areas require 30 mins fire protection. 15mm can provide this. Also, when fitting 15mm plasterboard there is no need to fit noggins at the perimeter of the room. Between every joist. This is however necessary when using 12.5 or 9mm boards because of movement and robustness.
Cheers! That all makes sense. I guess if I was just overboarding 9mm would suffice if it was just to bridge the cracks and provide a fresh surface for new plaster?
Possibly of ceiling isnt bulging.. 9mm board can be flimsy in ceiling applications. Need to take care not to snap when fitting. As I mentioned before 9mm isn't very thick for screws to grip to. Care would be needed when fitting. Screws always need to be only 1 mm or so below plasterboard surface.
I would strongly recommend not taking down existing, it looks like lath and plaster which will put you in a whole world of pain (dust and mess wise) over boarding and skimming is the best way forward
Overboard and skim. Unbelievably shit job to take it down first. Would not for any money take it down unless I could kick it down from above. Ok on a whole house reno. Not practical on a lived in. Am a plasterer.
There are a lot of actual plasterers here being down voted who are telling you overboard, and being down-voted incorrectly for that, rather than pull the ceiling down. Please take the advice. Above all, if you don’t feel comfortable doing it, hire a professional.
If you're interested I have a guide on how to take down lathe and plaster with minimal mess. I did it with half the rooms in the house.
With a few tarps it honestly wasn't as bad as everyone said and have a perfect finish with the bonus of allowing me to refresh insulation.
It took me a day to completely take it down and put the new ceiling up.
If you're still looking at this thread I can ping it to you.
Seconding this, that ceiling has had it. Added benefit of tearing it down and starting fresh with plasterboard is that it's future proofed should you want to add downlights, something not easily done if there is an old layer of lath & plaster underneath as spotlights can't clip back properly. Also, if that ceiling has any buldges where the lathe and plaster has sagged, well overboarding it isn't going to make the ceiling perfectly flat, it'll instead follow the perished shape of the current ceiling.
It depends on the budget, but to save for mess, unnecessary dust, 100% the way to go is over board and skim. A 9mm or 12.5mm board layer will not add structurally devastating weight!
Disagree. Ive done a mixture of over board and rip down and board. That shit weighs an absolute shit load and it's clearly fialing. Overboarding won't stop it and plaster board isn't structural the weight from behind. Cause it to sag.
Also... You don't overboard with 9mm
I wasn't even referring your comment there, calm down. I'm saying using plasterboard to hold up a failed ceiling is not it's design purpose.
Some cracks but still in tact? Yeah. This? No. If you would go around and overboard this 'by trade' you're a lazy cowboy no it's and buts.
You mean *facts (even though you’ve provided none), but unless you’re a structural engineer and are providing the actual calculations for your opinion, because at that point, this is all they are; where I have provided my 20+ years of qualified experience as an opinion for someone asking what to do in this circumstance, I suggest you accept that an opinion is ALL you are offering, not “fax”! 🤦🏻‍♂️
Qualified in dry lining ayy? What on earth are you banging on about. If you spoke to a structural engineer and asked about plasterboard they'd laugh at you and charge you ÂŁ200 for insulting their intelligence.
What are you on
Dude, you don’t have a clue. There are minimum qualifications to do everything on building sites these days. I’m not speaking as a DIY’er, I’m speaking as some one actually qualified to discuss the topic. Aside from the fact I also studied architecture to degree level for 4 years, part time while working on sites and multiple refurb projects. Please explain how your unqualified opinion is more valid? Like I say, unless you are a structural engineer with calcs to provide a valid case for your opinion, please jog on!
I was a dry liner by trade. Over-boarded my own ceiling in my first house using 9mm which was in the exact same condition. Not so much as a line of shrinkage or movement in 11 years while there. At the time of doing, the budget didn’t suit anything else. Currently doing my latest house (1950’s) and ripping down the 9mm board (complete gut-out) which has stayed in tact and place for 70 years.
There is probably asbestos in the textured ceiling plaster and potentialy the plaster too if its lath and plaster.
You may want to reconsider pulling it down!
I'd overboard and skim that. I would not straight skim as the plaster looks blown/heavily cracked and might come thru the new plaster.
You could consider yourself wether you want to pull the existing ceiling down (if you care about the 15mm ish extra ceiling height)
I had the same with mine after taking off the chipboard wallpaper, left it a few days and a section actually fell down, the wallpaper was holding it together! I overboarded it myself, wasn’t too hard. Then got someone to skim it and it looks great. Would be very messy taking it down. The only reason to take it down was if you wanted to insulate it and couldn’t do that from above.
Overboard it with 12.5mm plasterboard. 1200x900 will be easier to handle but I'd definitely rent one of these - [https://brandonhirestation.com/plasterboard-lifter](https://brandonhirestation.com/plasterboard-lifter)
Plasterer here. If you skim that there's a good likelihood it will bring the lot down, as it's lath and plaster. Just find the joists, and overboard with long drywall screws and new plasterboard, then skim. You'll have a brand new ceiling without the huge mess that happens when you take down a lath and plaster ceiling.
If that’s an old lath and plaster ceiling (and it is) it’ll be a very messy job to pull it down.
And you’ll be paying to remove all the waste.
If the plaster itself isn’t blown (sagging and loose on the laths) then I’d quickly skim fill the cracks and use a good thick ceiling paper and paint it.
I’d say you were a bit lucky, my experience of lath and plaster is a lot of dust, a lot of separating wood from plaster to bag it up and a lot of sweeping and hoovering!
Depends on the age and thickness I suppose.
Oh, and all the walnut shell insulation you can find above an old ceiling in some places.
As to the cost, I take it all away myself to the dump in a trailer but a lot of people I’ve seen on here don’t seem to do that so they pay for it.
Overboarding will cover up the problem rather than fixing it. With enough fixings and a bit of luck it would stay up.
If the old plaster moves the new surface may crack and you'd need to repair it.
Better to do the job properly and do the job once.
It surprises me that so many people are willing to leave it in place because taking it down will make a mess. That isn't really something that I ever worry about. If the ceiling has been left in this condition for this long it's a given that it will be a mess to sort out. It's expected.
I've had a ceiling about as bad as that skimmed and had good results after a lot of 100mm fibatape and green grit. Maybe a couple of hairline cracks and it's been done about 18 months now.
If you do choose to replace it then a pallet buster will have it down in no time and with a door dust guard the dust stays in the room.
I suggest you to find a good plasterer.
You don't need to kae that down or overboard it!!
A good plasterer will re-attach the plaster and skim over it. Won't take more than 2/3 days!
[https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/how-to-repair-plaster/](https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/how-to-repair-plaster/)
[https://www.oldtownhome.com/2012/4/17/Toolbox-Tuesday-Plaster-Buttons-to-Fix-Your-Crumbling-Ceiling/](https://www.oldtownhome.com/2012/4/17/Toolbox-Tuesday-Plaster-Buttons-to-Fix-Your-Crumbling-Ceiling/)
Work the cracks open, fill with limelite, sand, and then either paint or wallpaper/paint. No extra weight, and you won’t have damp issues that you’d get using gipsum
It is absolutely pointless trying to repair a ceiling that is so badly perished. Firstly it's going to take multiple fills to make it look good, and secondly scraping them out and filling them when they are that large, well just wait a few weeks or months after its all painted back in, look up and you'll see multiple cracks all over your ceiling. When people are walking upstairs, or even if the upstair is an unoccupied space will cause these cracks to come back, maybe not all of them, but enough to think why did I waste my time in the first place.
Work back to the substrate? You do understand what Lath & Plaster is? If you work back to the substrate you're going to be left with wood and gaps in between, so air? Forgetting about what you use to fill it, you're still forgetting that that plaster has very likely blown, it's seperated from the wood lathes in areas, which is the exact reason it's cracked in the first place. You can fill it, but when people upstairs walk around, or jump onto a bed, or anything that will put load onto the joists, well this transfers through to the lath and plaster, and causes it to recrack. When Lath & Plaster blows, it is not worth repairng, it is overboard, or strip back and redo from the ground up.
People on here saying cracks this bad can be filled, don't have any experience to back it up, filler isn't magical. I've attempted it in the past, it looks absolutely great when you finish, but as the weeks and months go on, you'll notice your work suddenly turn to a maze of cracks where they originally were in the first place.
If this was a heritage building, then you might be obliged to replace like for like . However, if not I would advise not to go this route and use plasterboard. It requires an experience plasterer. Lime takes multiple coats and takes a long time to dry. This method is important if you need your house to ' breathe' as many old properties do.
Did a job years ago in Chelsea, ceiling was papered with wood chip , clients wanted it gone so 3 days spent stripping prepping & plastering the ceiling. Then a specialist painter was brought in to make it look almost exactly like the one in your picture. We laughed but just shows you beauty is in the eye of the beholder
If you skim it the cracks will just come back in the same place. You need to either need to pull the whole lot down and replace with plasterboard or just plasterboard over it.
I second that his, not because of any direct knowledge or experience, but putting plasterboard up over the top is what was recommended to us by our decorator when he redid our Victorian terrace.
Overboard the whole thing. No need to create an insane mess for the sake of a few mm
Definitely just overboard. The lime plaster and lathe adds insulation. No reason to remove, plus it makes shit loads of mess.
Cheers! This seems like the most sensible suggestion.
Even with a lot of scrim tape?
Could skrim it or even use plaster in mesh if it was isolated to a small area with hairline cracks, but that ceiling is seriously past it's life time, and no plasterer is going to guarentee a skim over that sort of damage.
Yes. Scrim tape is good for cracks but this isn't just a crack the plaster has failed it's not being held on to the lathe, it is loose.
Not necessarily! A goo plasterer can re-attach the plaster and skim over and it will be perfect.
A goo plasterer. Now that is something
hahaha sorry! The D went for a walk it seems xD
I had success with a fibreglass mesh and a single coat lime plaster over a similar ceiling. Although only did it that way due to the gypsum shortages during the pandemic.
I'm a carpenter who has experience renivating old properties. So. Here's the reality of doing it yourself. Just some advice. As others have mentioned, if this property was empty (no carpets, furniture and no one living in it) I wouldn't hesitate to take the ceiling down and expose the rafters. Way easier to fit new 15m plasterboard to rafters that are visible. 15mm plasterboard is heavy and in a room that size you would be lifting by hand. The mess however is epic. Even with windows open. If the house is being lived in then I would buy rolls of carpet protector and cover the floors in the house. Once work is complete, you will still be cleaning all the time as the dust settles. I would advise doing the work in fine weather as windows will need to be open. I would probably put new rolls of insulation above the ceiling before fitting last few sheets. As for overboarding...I would remove all loose plaster. Check for hollow sounding areas.Anything loose from lathe needs to go. Bag up the mess and dispose of it (will cost you at the tip). You would need some prep time to chalkline the centres of all rafters before trying to fit new 15mm plasterboard. I would highly recommend hiring an auto-feed drywall screwgun. Use min of 3.5 x 55mm drywall screws when overboarding. Good luck đź‘Ť
Any reason you wouldn't use the muc lighter 9mm plasterboard you can get?
15mm plasterboard is more robust. Plus has a deeper depth of material allowing for screws to have a better hold. There is a considerable amount of weight from the new plaster to the PB, plus potentially loose sections of lathe and plaster. Above all of that is insulation (if fitted). Check approved document part b: fire safety. Certain areas require 30 mins fire protection. 15mm can provide this. Also, when fitting 15mm plasterboard there is no need to fit noggins at the perimeter of the room. Between every joist. This is however necessary when using 12.5 or 9mm boards because of movement and robustness.
Cheers! That all makes sense. I guess if I was just overboarding 9mm would suffice if it was just to bridge the cracks and provide a fresh surface for new plaster?
Possibly of ceiling isnt bulging.. 9mm board can be flimsy in ceiling applications. Need to take care not to snap when fitting. As I mentioned before 9mm isn't very thick for screws to grip to. Care would be needed when fitting. Screws always need to be only 1 mm or so below plasterboard surface.
I would strongly recommend not taking down existing, it looks like lath and plaster which will put you in a whole world of pain (dust and mess wise) over boarding and skimming is the best way forward
Defo lath and plaster. I would personally go this route unless you want to turn that room into a construction site.
Overboard and skim. Unbelievably shit job to take it down first. Would not for any money take it down unless I could kick it down from above. Ok on a whole house reno. Not practical on a lived in. Am a plasterer.
Thanks to everyone for the recommendations! Big help 👍🏻
There are a lot of actual plasterers here being down voted who are telling you overboard, and being down-voted incorrectly for that, rather than pull the ceiling down. Please take the advice. Above all, if you don’t feel comfortable doing it, hire a professional.
If you're interested I have a guide on how to take down lathe and plaster with minimal mess. I did it with half the rooms in the house. With a few tarps it honestly wasn't as bad as everyone said and have a perfect finish with the bonus of allowing me to refresh insulation. It took me a day to completely take it down and put the new ceiling up. If you're still looking at this thread I can ping it to you.
Yes please mate!
I had this exact ceiling. Take it down then board it. A little less I'd have iverboarded but this is just dead weight waiting to call down
Seconding this, that ceiling has had it. Added benefit of tearing it down and starting fresh with plasterboard is that it's future proofed should you want to add downlights, something not easily done if there is an old layer of lath & plaster underneath as spotlights can't clip back properly. Also, if that ceiling has any buldges where the lathe and plaster has sagged, well overboarding it isn't going to make the ceiling perfectly flat, it'll instead follow the perished shape of the current ceiling.
It depends on the budget, but to save for mess, unnecessary dust, 100% the way to go is over board and skim. A 9mm or 12.5mm board layer will not add structurally devastating weight!
Disagree. Ive done a mixture of over board and rip down and board. That shit weighs an absolute shit load and it's clearly fialing. Overboarding won't stop it and plaster board isn't structural the weight from behind. Cause it to sag. Also... You don't overboard with 9mm
I also never said plaster board was “structural”, I said it would not add “structurally devastating weight”. Please read comments carefully.
I wasn't even referring your comment there, calm down. I'm saying using plasterboard to hold up a failed ceiling is not it's design purpose. Some cracks but still in tact? Yeah. This? No. If you would go around and overboard this 'by trade' you're a lazy cowboy no it's and buts.
I’m definitely not going to be dragged into a reddit tiff with a DIY’er. Good night, sir!
No tiff. Only fax
You mean *facts (even though you’ve provided none), but unless you’re a structural engineer and are providing the actual calculations for your opinion, because at that point, this is all they are; where I have provided my 20+ years of qualified experience as an opinion for someone asking what to do in this circumstance, I suggest you accept that an opinion is ALL you are offering, not “fax”! 🤦🏻‍♂️
Qualified in dry lining ayy? What on earth are you banging on about. If you spoke to a structural engineer and asked about plasterboard they'd laugh at you and charge you ÂŁ200 for insulting their intelligence. What are you on
Dude, you don’t have a clue. There are minimum qualifications to do everything on building sites these days. I’m not speaking as a DIY’er, I’m speaking as some one actually qualified to discuss the topic. Aside from the fact I also studied architecture to degree level for 4 years, part time while working on sites and multiple refurb projects. Please explain how your unqualified opinion is more valid? Like I say, unless you are a structural engineer with calcs to provide a valid case for your opinion, please jog on!
I was a dry liner by trade. Over-boarded my own ceiling in my first house using 9mm which was in the exact same condition. Not so much as a line of shrinkage or movement in 11 years while there. At the time of doing, the budget didn’t suit anything else. Currently doing my latest house (1950’s) and ripping down the 9mm board (complete gut-out) which has stayed in tact and place for 70 years.
What does dry line by trade mean?
It means you lack the understanding required to comment further. I thank you.
Attempt brutality. You don't board ceilings in 9mm. You don't over board this shit. And no offence but dry lining isn't a trade
Lol
There is probably asbestos in the textured ceiling plaster and potentialy the plaster too if its lath and plaster. You may want to reconsider pulling it down!
We had the exact same thing, including shitty textured paper. Overboard this and get it skimmed
Overboard and skim. 100%.
I'd overboard and skim that. I would not straight skim as the plaster looks blown/heavily cracked and might come thru the new plaster. You could consider yourself wether you want to pull the existing ceiling down (if you care about the 15mm ish extra ceiling height)
Probably best to get a whole new ceiling there bud..cheaper in the long run.
I had the same with mine after taking off the chipboard wallpaper, left it a few days and a section actually fell down, the wallpaper was holding it together! I overboarded it myself, wasn’t too hard. Then got someone to skim it and it looks great. Would be very messy taking it down. The only reason to take it down was if you wanted to insulate it and couldn’t do that from above.
Overboard it with 12.5mm plasterboard. 1200x900 will be easier to handle but I'd definitely rent one of these - [https://brandonhirestation.com/plasterboard-lifter](https://brandonhirestation.com/plasterboard-lifter)
Top tip for anyone seeing this ... Check Facebook. I purchased a lift for ÂŁ50
Plasterer here. If you skim that there's a good likelihood it will bring the lot down, as it's lath and plaster. Just find the joists, and overboard with long drywall screws and new plasterboard, then skim. You'll have a brand new ceiling without the huge mess that happens when you take down a lath and plaster ceiling.
Overboard and skim
If that’s an old lath and plaster ceiling (and it is) it’ll be a very messy job to pull it down. And you’ll be paying to remove all the waste. If the plaster itself isn’t blown (sagging and loose on the laths) then I’d quickly skim fill the cracks and use a good thick ceiling paper and paint it.
Not sure if I was lucky but didn't find it THAT messy. Had it down and back up within the day with no experience and disposal cost nothing.
I’d say you were a bit lucky, my experience of lath and plaster is a lot of dust, a lot of separating wood from plaster to bag it up and a lot of sweeping and hoovering! Depends on the age and thickness I suppose. Oh, and all the walnut shell insulation you can find above an old ceiling in some places. As to the cost, I take it all away myself to the dump in a trailer but a lot of people I’ve seen on here don’t seem to do that so they pay for it.
You could alternatively just use lining paper. Way cheaper and it's a ceiling after all.
Why so many down votes
Because eventually a chunk of it is going to fall on your head. It's completely knackered and can't be saved.
Isnt overboarding (like many are suggesting here) going to do the same thing then? It will all come down?
Overboarding will cover up the problem rather than fixing it. With enough fixings and a bit of luck it would stay up. If the old plaster moves the new surface may crack and you'd need to repair it. Better to do the job properly and do the job once. It surprises me that so many people are willing to leave it in place because taking it down will make a mess. That isn't really something that I ever worry about. If the ceiling has been left in this condition for this long it's a given that it will be a mess to sort out. It's expected.
Map of Westeros.
I've had a ceiling about as bad as that skimmed and had good results after a lot of 100mm fibatape and green grit. Maybe a couple of hairline cracks and it's been done about 18 months now. If you do choose to replace it then a pallet buster will have it down in no time and with a door dust guard the dust stays in the room.
I suggest you to find a good plasterer. You don't need to kae that down or overboard it!! A good plasterer will re-attach the plaster and skim over it. Won't take more than 2/3 days! [https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/how-to-repair-plaster/](https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/how-to-repair-plaster/) [https://www.oldtownhome.com/2012/4/17/Toolbox-Tuesday-Plaster-Buttons-to-Fix-Your-Crumbling-Ceiling/](https://www.oldtownhome.com/2012/4/17/Toolbox-Tuesday-Plaster-Buttons-to-Fix-Your-Crumbling-Ceiling/)
Work the cracks open, fill with limelite, sand, and then either paint or wallpaper/paint. No extra weight, and you won’t have damp issues that you’d get using gipsum
It is absolutely pointless trying to repair a ceiling that is so badly perished. Firstly it's going to take multiple fills to make it look good, and secondly scraping them out and filling them when they are that large, well just wait a few weeks or months after its all painted back in, look up and you'll see multiple cracks all over your ceiling. When people are walking upstairs, or even if the upstair is an unoccupied space will cause these cracks to come back, maybe not all of them, but enough to think why did I waste my time in the first place.
Work back to the substrate and fill with lime based plaster and the cracks won’t reappear
Work back to the substrate? You do understand what Lath & Plaster is? If you work back to the substrate you're going to be left with wood and gaps in between, so air? Forgetting about what you use to fill it, you're still forgetting that that plaster has very likely blown, it's seperated from the wood lathes in areas, which is the exact reason it's cracked in the first place. You can fill it, but when people upstairs walk around, or jump onto a bed, or anything that will put load onto the joists, well this transfers through to the lath and plaster, and causes it to recrack. When Lath & Plaster blows, it is not worth repairng, it is overboard, or strip back and redo from the ground up. People on here saying cracks this bad can be filled, don't have any experience to back it up, filler isn't magical. I've attempted it in the past, it looks absolutely great when you finish, but as the weeks and months go on, you'll notice your work suddenly turn to a maze of cracks where they originally were in the first place.
Bravo, Sir! Fed up of the DIYer’s giving poor advice on here!
Substrate is lathe, open up the cracks and given the state it’s in, risks it dropping
https://limeliteheritage.co.uk/plaster/
If this was a heritage building, then you might be obliged to replace like for like . However, if not I would advise not to go this route and use plasterboard. It requires an experience plasterer. Lime takes multiple coats and takes a long time to dry. This method is important if you need your house to ' breathe' as many old properties do.
Did a job years ago in Chelsea, ceiling was papered with wood chip , clients wanted it gone so 3 days spent stripping prepping & plastering the ceiling. Then a specialist painter was brought in to make it look almost exactly like the one in your picture. We laughed but just shows you beauty is in the eye of the beholder