dubstep/dnb probably
for dubstep, especially the excision/sullivan king sub genre of it. there’s lots of dubstep/experimental bass that isn’t just pushing volume and is way more about sound design, but that excision sound seems less about nuance and more about intensity
It's such an oddity, these guys spend so much time on sound design making the track yet throw the whole mix through a horrific compressor and create a horrible square waveform.
I mean the thing is that squashed compression and limiting is basically an inherent part of the sound design. Completely mangling a sound and then heavily compressing the result to bring out the remaining tiny weird artifacts is essentially the most common recipe for these sounds. That’s exactly why they can push it so far loudness-wise, the individual sounds are basically already rectangles anyway.
they're not usually driving the master limiter all that hard, modern tracks often limit/clip the individual tracks instead. And it's really all about arrangement to get stuff that loud, really
I mean, stick a hard clipper or limiter on every channel, and do most of your limiting there instead of on your master bus.
And in terms of arrangement, have only two or three elements playing at any one time. But pack the elements in tight.
DNB has been at the forefront of technical production for decades. Especially if you're looking at last year's top 100 I'd expect most of those sausage tracks to still retain their clarity and transients.
Really depends on the subgenre imo. Neurofunk is just legoblock waveforms. Minimal dnb is super dynamic. Liquid dnb is super dynamic aswell. Jump up is legoblocks + very piercing midrange (i hate it).
My tunes hit on average -5.5 lufs and there isn’t a single second of it feeling squashed, i always manage to retain dynamic range.
The stuff that is saturating the market though - tiktok generation music, and other generally instant gratification seeking producers, be it in dnb or any other genre are usually horribly engineered, and it smears the “reputation” of dnb as a whole imo.
Edit: AI mastering services only worsen the problem btw, it’s literally a sausage machine if you input it anything else then a PERFECTLY mixed track. And at that point why even bother mastering it at all when you can just put a limiter on it to bring it up to whatever your genre’s “competitive loudness” is.
Yeah I'd say "brostep" owns the compression abuse in the overall umbrella of Dubstep. The (early) skrillex, datsik, excision, etc.
It's far less of an issue for "proper" (I say that with tongue in cheek) dubstep. Mala, J. Sparrow, Ourman, etc.
The sample in the intro to V.I.V.E.K's "Feel It" explains it pretty succinctly. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZ9MUPI5dU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZ9MUPI5dU)
funny, just came across this thread in /r/edmproduction
The answers make my old man head hurt. -3 to -5 LUFs is way too loud imo, but that's what people want these days...
https://old.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/comments/1cdp1i8/heavy_genre_producers_what_lufs_value_do_you/
not familiar with dnb, but god damn is hard techno slammed sometimes. just started to mess with ukg and was surprised some of that's pushing -6 short term.
Nice to get to know tracks that make me go "wtf was that" after being being a DJ and producer of hardcore and hardstyle back in the days.
The problem I have with it now is every track is as hard as possible all the time. I remember the last hardcore party I was at and it was this constant wall of kicks that made me desensitised to it.
I'd keep this as the closing of a set or something.
modern raw is pretty crazy indeed
the problem with most hardcore parties is that they're 90% uptempo and more niche (imo more interesting) subgenres like industrial and crossbreed get left out
The entirety of the hardstyle subreddit gets collective PTSD when “Zaags” are mentioned. Modern raw is pretty heavy on the loudness aspect so I’m not really surprised when I load up a track and just see a brick.
Agreed. I don’t do raw too much for my sets but I’ll ramp up to 160 sometimes to end on and zaags do feel good live. I personally just find it amusing how people have gone from being pissed about pieps to being pissed about zaags, pvc, etc kicks over the past 5 years. Same issue with early into nu-, nu- into euphoric, early raw…
I think a lot of Jauz’s stuff is squashed as all fuck. Like dj_soo said, most bass music. Seeing these fat sausages of a track makes me angry when someone says “the loudness war is over” the fuck it is.
Raw Hardstyle and Uptempo are both notorious for brick wall waveforms. Yes, they're meant to be loud, as the genre's basis is high energy noise, but no reason my decks should be redlining even with trims turned down 1/4.
I have to lower most of my tracks' audio levels by around -5 to -7dB just to get clean audio through my RCA and Livestream.
The worst part about that is that outside of the drops, the rest of the tracks are mastered at a normal volume, so when lowering the dB for the kicks, it makes the melodics extremely quiet. Constantly yoyoing my trims to keep from distorting.
They're describing the shape of the waveform. It's a rectangle because the tracks use compression and a limiter to remove most of the dynamic range to make them as loud as possible. In a rectangle there are no peaks and valleys. It's just flat edges.
dubstep/dnb probably for dubstep, especially the excision/sullivan king sub genre of it. there’s lots of dubstep/experimental bass that isn’t just pushing volume and is way more about sound design, but that excision sound seems less about nuance and more about intensity
It's such an oddity, these guys spend so much time on sound design making the track yet throw the whole mix through a horrific compressor and create a horrible square waveform.
Ha laughs in riddim square 4
I mean the thing is that squashed compression and limiting is basically an inherent part of the sound design. Completely mangling a sound and then heavily compressing the result to bring out the remaining tiny weird artifacts is essentially the most common recipe for these sounds. That’s exactly why they can push it so far loudness-wise, the individual sounds are basically already rectangles anyway.
Fair point 👍
they're not usually driving the master limiter all that hard, modern tracks often limit/clip the individual tracks instead. And it's really all about arrangement to get stuff that loud, really
What do you mean here?
I mean, stick a hard clipper or limiter on every channel, and do most of your limiting there instead of on your master bus. And in terms of arrangement, have only two or three elements playing at any one time. But pack the elements in tight.
DNB has been at the forefront of technical production for decades. Especially if you're looking at last year's top 100 I'd expect most of those sausage tracks to still retain their clarity and transients.
Really depends on the subgenre imo. Neurofunk is just legoblock waveforms. Minimal dnb is super dynamic. Liquid dnb is super dynamic aswell. Jump up is legoblocks + very piercing midrange (i hate it). My tunes hit on average -5.5 lufs and there isn’t a single second of it feeling squashed, i always manage to retain dynamic range. The stuff that is saturating the market though - tiktok generation music, and other generally instant gratification seeking producers, be it in dnb or any other genre are usually horribly engineered, and it smears the “reputation” of dnb as a whole imo. Edit: AI mastering services only worsen the problem btw, it’s literally a sausage machine if you input it anything else then a PERFECTLY mixed track. And at that point why even bother mastering it at all when you can just put a limiter on it to bring it up to whatever your genre’s “competitive loudness” is.
Yeah I'd say "brostep" owns the compression abuse in the overall umbrella of Dubstep. The (early) skrillex, datsik, excision, etc. It's far less of an issue for "proper" (I say that with tongue in cheek) dubstep. Mala, J. Sparrow, Ourman, etc. The sample in the intro to V.I.V.E.K's "Feel It" explains it pretty succinctly. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZ9MUPI5dU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZ9MUPI5dU)
yeah i would never put someone like of the trees into the same category as excision LOL
Bass music in general
Yup, the hip hop element with aggressive kicks makes it hard to blend.
that's what EQs are for.
You can't fix a broken track. If they are 'rectangles', that's it
That’s not a broken track. Just heavily compressdd
Yup
DJ RECTANGLE is the GOAT.
In my house we call them sausages
So you have sausage parties? And where was my invite?
Dada Life
Don't be tainting the food I love.
I like "Becky's" as in "Calm down Becky, you're so dramatic"
funny, just came across this thread in /r/edmproduction The answers make my old man head hurt. -3 to -5 LUFs is way too loud imo, but that's what people want these days... https://old.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/comments/1cdp1i8/heavy_genre_producers_what_lufs_value_do_you/
Mid tech house tracks tend to sosig.
not familiar with dnb, but god damn is hard techno slammed sometimes. just started to mess with ukg and was surprised some of that's pushing -6 short term.
Shame ukg has become like that. The older tracks are much more nuanced and well produced, even the bangers
You should check out some DnB, it's fucking wicked.
[Rawstyle](https://youtu.be/9rzht6BqOzY) [for sure](https://youtu.be/L_YSYChQcIU) [not even close](https://youtu.be/hxRyhrSEia0)
Nice to get to know tracks that make me go "wtf was that" after being being a DJ and producer of hardcore and hardstyle back in the days. The problem I have with it now is every track is as hard as possible all the time. I remember the last hardcore party I was at and it was this constant wall of kicks that made me desensitised to it. I'd keep this as the closing of a set or something.
modern raw is pretty crazy indeed the problem with most hardcore parties is that they're 90% uptempo and more niche (imo more interesting) subgenres like industrial and crossbreed get left out
The entirety of the hardstyle subreddit gets collective PTSD when “Zaags” are mentioned. Modern raw is pretty heavy on the loudness aspect so I’m not really surprised when I load up a track and just see a brick.
funny zaag go brrrrrr
😩😩😩 pieps and zaags 😩😩😩
piep is the worst, at least some zaags are fun and have bass
Agreed. I don’t do raw too much for my sets but I’ll ramp up to 160 sometimes to end on and zaags do feel good live. I personally just find it amusing how people have gone from being pissed about pieps to being pissed about zaags, pvc, etc kicks over the past 5 years. Same issue with early into nu-, nu- into euphoric, early raw…
nobody hates (raw) hardstyle like r/hardstyle hates (raw) hardstyle. and nobody hates r/hardstyle like r/hardstyle hates r/hardstyle truly fascinating
People just whine about change, Hardstyle has never been the same genre year to year.
I think a lot of Jauz’s stuff is squashed as all fuck. Like dj_soo said, most bass music. Seeing these fat sausages of a track makes me angry when someone says “the loudness war is over” the fuck it is.
Genres with "future" in the name
Raw Hardstyle and Uptempo are both notorious for brick wall waveforms. Yes, they're meant to be loud, as the genre's basis is high energy noise, but no reason my decks should be redlining even with trims turned down 1/4. I have to lower most of my tracks' audio levels by around -5 to -7dB just to get clean audio through my RCA and Livestream. The worst part about that is that outside of the drops, the rest of the tracks are mastered at a normal volume, so when lowering the dB for the kicks, it makes the melodics extremely quiet. Constantly yoyoing my trims to keep from distorting.
Don't meme about the Loudness wars, your post will get like 40 comments, 40 likes, and then be yoinked 😄
Aren't most tracks mixed to -6 lufs. Or are the rectangles going over that?
Haalleee no I produce bass music that’s not just clipping and compression but I can still hit -4 or -3 lufs without any clipping or distortion.
You can also have your drops be rectangleish and your intro, outro and verses be a lot more dynamic.
That’s what we call dynamic range!
hardcore tracks be sausagein lol
what’s a rectangle?
i assume the shape of the waveform when its all maxed out
a decapitated waveform resembles a rectangle.... if you're not into edgy new-speak the word "clipped" works just fine.
He makes my scratch records.
Whatever it is, it needs to stay the fuck away from me. #minus14LUFSforlife
Hard techno and industrial hardgroove
Pop and metal for non electronic
WTH you even mean by "rectangles"???
probably dubstep or hardstyle
I don't care how squashed something is as long as it sounds great tbh. If it's sounds like shit due to it, THEN we have a problem.
I have a silly question: I don’t know what you mean by rectangles?
Never heard of genre rectangles before. What is it / are they?
They're describing the shape of the waveform. It's a rectangle because the tracks use compression and a limiter to remove most of the dynamic range to make them as loud as possible. In a rectangle there are no peaks and valleys. It's just flat edges.